VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Staley on April 14, 2005, 07:44:37 pm
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edit..
**ADDED MORE PICTURES AT BOTTOM**
I own a Audi/VW Performance shop in Houston, Texas USA and have this disease.. called "can't leave anything just as it is"
I bought my diesel Rabbit for $50 US and won't tell you how much that I have spent on it since... but it is a LOT.
I love the car, and drive it to work every day.
I installed a new engine and pump.. so I can have a reliable mode of semi efficient transportation.
I have done the "govenor mod" that has been talked about here many times.. and it seems to help a little.
Three weeks ago I bought a 8v turbo manifold from ATP turbo.com and this Wedensday I bought a
T3 turbocharger with a STG1 super 60 compressor, and a .48AR Turbine with a 10deg. clip.
Time to turbo the Rabbit. :)
I will post up some pics soon.
Last year I bought a lump of classic turbo parts and kits from some guy on
vwvortex which inclued an original BAE turbo kit and a Spearco one.
I have several turbo fuel enrichment pumps but was thinking about using the Spearco fuel enrichment module.
The T3 has a 14psi wastegate spring.. which leads me to my next question..
HOW much boost is too much on these engines?
I have some intercoolers laying around the shop so I will definately
intercool the setup.
here is a link to some early pictures of the Rabbit..
I have some more recent ones i'll post soon
http://www.bartuning.com/photos/rabbit/index.htm
(http://www.bartuning.com/pictures/diesel/bae_kit.jpg)
(http://www.bartuning.com/pictures/diesel/spearco_kit.jpg)
(http://www.bartuning.com/pictures/diesel/spear_fuel.jpg)
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look at that enrichment module... always wondered how they did it! isn't that something?
14 psi is a good starting point. Don't forget, with diesel, you don't have to worry about leaning out and detonation!
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Nice color choice, looks GREAT!
That engine is just too clean, almost not fair.... ;)
Is the block you are using a non-turbo or does it have the oil-squirters in it?
That might cause some issues with more than around 15 lbs of boost or aggressive fueling. Either way, should be a killer setup - Those BAE kits are really cool, wish they were still avaliable.
Great work so far, good luck with the rest of it! :)
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
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I've heard (and seen) sustained boost over 17psi will eventually destroy the head. This was in a Westy Synchro, lasted about 30k, Rabbit will be quite alot easier on engine, but keep an eye on EGT, especially W/O td specific alloys in head, pistons and valves. It is alway recommended to use a true TD for the application. I have found them for around $125, but... usually $500-$800
janb
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I've heard (and seen) sustained boost over 17psi will eventually destroy the head.
What was the nature of the failure?
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I ran my 1.9TD with a pretty big turbo and no wastegate.
I was able to spool up 20psi at 3600RPM and kept that all the way to the rev limiter.
In my set up there's not much more power to be had above 18psi
(on a hot day no power above 15psi)
A bigger intercooler would have helped.
I ran this set up for 140,000km, no problem
note: I also had a huge oil cooler, that I recommend
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I ran my 1.9TD with a pretty big turbo and no wastegate.
I was able to spool up 20psi at 3600RPM and kept that all the way to the rev limiter.
In my set up there's not much more power to be had above 18psi
(on a hot day no power above 15psi)
A bigger intercooler would have helped.
I ran this set up for 140,000km, no problem
note: I also had a huge oil cooler, that I recommend
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possible you might blow the head gasket with a certain amount of boost. The 1.6s seem to be worse for that then the 1.9s though.
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1.9's have a metal gasket that fits on the 1.6L (same thickneses)
no more gasket problems
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Cor blimey, you lot over there really did sh!t out with the interiors didn't you! that looks weird compared to the European ones!
And what are those rear lights about? they don't look right as they don't line up with the swages in the rear panel, why are they so big?
European ones up to 1980 had the nice small one like the cabriolet, I got s set of "postie" ones downstairs, orange indicators, red reverse light, can decide wether to put them on our '82 cab or not?
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I've heard (and seen) sustained boost over 17psi will eventually destroy the head.
What was the nature of the failure?
cracks all over the combustion face,
valve to prechamber (Worst)
valve to valve (common, but worse)
basically was a test done just to verify weakness. As imagined it is prolonged temps and pressures on an aluminum head.
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Here are some pictures of the intake manifold and the ATP turbo 8v manifold.
I bought the intake manifold on ebay.. it is supposed to be a euro tdi 110hp manifold..??
I'm not sure about that.. but at least it is a D port manifold to match my head.
The turbo like I mentioned above is a T3 Super60 with a stg1 compressor
and a .48AR turbine with a 10deg clip on the turbine. If you look closely at the turbine you can see
the shiny flat spots.. on each blade.. that is the place where the blades were clipped. The wastegate is a 14psi spring.
I took the exhaust and intake manifold to Polydyn here in Houston and had the exhaust ceramic
coated (inside and out) and the intake ceramic coated on the outside and a heat barrier coating on the
inside kinda like a jet hot type coating.
I have ordered the downpipe gasket so that I can have a flange watercut in stainless.
It is driving me crazy standing here looking at these parts.. I WANT to get
them on the car! one thing at a time.. and I only want to do this once! LOL
catcha later
Mike
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271206_0054.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271207_0055.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271208_0056.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271209_0057.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271210_0058.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271213_0061.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271214_0062.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271215_0063.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271216_0064.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/P4271217_0065.jpg)
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Wow... pure diesel porn...
Holy lord, that turbo is a monster! You sure it will fit back there??
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
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A few comments: Car looks great... love the color. The 1.9lNA engine install also looks really clean!
That microfueler thing like Dr D says, is RARE. Interested in knowing how it works if you ever disassemble it to rebuild it, take pics and post them! Also, nice job with the ceramic coatings... that stuff really does help.
Re: target boost pressure - I ran 14psi in my 1.6lTD (with big exhaust, intercooler, and factory garrett TA0304B turbo) when I daily drove it for years like that, and there were no problems with that boost pressure at all. In fact, I found with an efficient turbo and intercooler setup, increasing the boost pressure can actually decrease EGTs!
Since you are a turbo guy you might try and track down the compressor map for that turbo and calculate how efficient it is at your target boost and airflow rate, and make sure it's reasonable efficiency and not close to overspinning. From the size of it though, and knowing it was BAE kit factory designed for a VW diesel, I doubt it will have any problems at 14 psi (maybe even could do more than that.) If you don't have piston-cooling oil squirters, I would keep the max EGTs more conservative than if you do. (Bone stock 1.6lTD hits peak of 1500 deg F pre-turbine EGTs... 1300 deg F post-turbine... so use that as a reference point.)
With a big exhaust and intercooler, chances are, if your turbo is efficient, you'll be smoking far earlier than reaching EGTs even approaching the stock thermal limit. Good luck!
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Jake,
I bought the BAE and Spearco kits intending to use them..
but I decided to use the micro fueler from the spearco kit
and sell the other stuff. What do you think those kits are worth?
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I'd say it would be about the same overall value as a factory 1.6lTD conversion kit would run. I would say it depends on their completeness and their condition. A complete good condition turbo kit with fresh, new or rebuilt turbo could fetch above $1000 I would think (probably not much above $2000 unless utilizing some exotic technology), but an incomplete kit or with a trashed turbo might not even be worth $100, or sum of it's parts. I have seen them on sale from time to time on e-bay, this forum, and other places with prices varying but generally a good used turbo is worth at least a couple hundred dollars. BAE sold a nonwastegated turbo in addition to the wastegated version by the way. The nonwastegated turbo ran most boost pressure I think and made more peak horsepower (more than a factory 1.6lTD in HP numbers I believe), but the wastegated turbo made a broader powerband so is really more "driveable" and had better acceleration times, even though the peak hp figure was lower.
PS - Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but although your intake manifold has the proper "D" shaped ports needed for your 1.9l, and the thermal barrier coating will help keep the heat from the turbo out - no question - I should point out that the design of the runners and plenum of that manifold is lacking, IMO. The runner lengths are short and also are unevenly matched lengths comparing #1 and #4 versus #2 and #3. There is essentially no plenum in the design of that manifold, and there is an unbalanced abrupt angle in the air tract from the ram pipe to #1 and #4 cylinder runners (while the ram pipe is essentially straight shot to cylinders #2 and #3.)
I will hopefully be testing a short runner 1.6lTD manifold versus a longer runner manifold here shortly. You may wish to proceed forward with the current intake manifold you've got there, and wait for my test results to see what difference the long runners and ample plenum volume makes. Then you could decide later if it's worth changing yours. The good thing about your low-hanging turbo location, unlike the factory 1.6lTD, is it leaves plenty of room for bolting on pretty much anything to your intake ports... :)
It looks like your turbo and exhaust manifold leaves enough room to bolt up one of the BAE or spearco intake manifolds, or pretty much any intake manifold from another factory VW application. To use another one of those manifolds however and get good performance out of them, you would need to port match their ports to your 1.9l's "D" shaped ports however. I have heard of people doing this on 1.9D longblock conversions, not sure how much meat would be left on the manifold gasket surface after removing all the material to make the required "D" shape though. Someone here probably knows!
All that said, I think you're going to love the added performance boost your turbo provides when you are done installing it, regardless of what intake manifold goes on there! 8)
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Jake,
I have the original manifold "O" port manifold on the "D" port head now.
I have a metal spacer with 2 gaskets.. 1 "D" gasket against the cylinder head and 1 "O" gasket
against the manifold with the spacer in the middle. It works great with no leaks.
The ATP turbo manifold was made for the gasser engine.. so you are correct about using any intake
manifold. When you get your testing finished I would be really intrested in the results. I have several
old GTI intakes and such that I could use. or find a later year "D" intake.
I am going to attempt to complete the interior of the car soon.
I have a real nice cabrio dash in black that I am going to use.
It is so darn loud inside! I also need carpet and such.
I ordered the complete A1 seal kit from Far Out Parts.
and a new center console.
I will snap some more recent pictures of the car. I bought this stuff called Quiet Car.. it is a
Dynamat in liquid form.. I have completely coated the interior of the car with it.. You
spray it in like a bedliner. It has made a VAST difference in cabin noise. and It has been on the car for a year now..
with no carpet and wears very well. I replaced the wheels with some teardrops and they work MUCH better.
I installed a set of Neuspeed sport springs to give it that aggressive look.
I was playing around the other day with the max fueling screw...
:twisted:
I had it set so under hard acceleration it smokes some.. then I gave it a whirl..
now if you lug it or hang a leg in it.. it smokes like a 18 wheeler!
it is great! find a sucker with their windows open or top down and stick it in 5th at 30 mph... and floor it!
I need to turn it down some because it just seems like it has WAY too much fuel..
but it sure does make for amusing driving
Have a great weekend
Later,
Mike
what would you suggest for pump timing I have it set at 1mm.
should I lower it to .8-.85 with the turbo?
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Here are some pictures that I took today.
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_0082.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_0087.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_0065.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_0071.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_0081.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_0061.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_0060.JPG)
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I parked the Rabbit Friday evening and started taking it apart.
I am going to do the serpentine belt conversion and turbo kit together to save me some downtime.
Here are some pictures with the T3 installed on the car.
The downpipe is going to be rather tight because of the shifter linkage.
I will start working on the downpipe next week when my stainless bends arrive. I shipped a turbo fuel injection pump to Giles yesterday! :)
next step is to figure out what to do with the injectors. I have the n/a 1.9L ones.
Catcha later!
Mike
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_1192.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_1196.jpg)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_1199.jpg)
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Your car is so cool Mike. :D
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Well.. Lots of progress has been made in the last week.
Giles has sent back my tricked out injection pump. :)
My serpentine belt parts are arriving..
I picked up an engine oil cooler with a fan! I would imagine that engine
oil temps are going to be a LOT higher now from the 20PSI that Giles recommended I run. :)
I picked up the T3 flanges that I had had water cut in 304 to match the 304 stainless pipe for the exhaust.
I spent about 20 minutes after work today and started to make/weld the downpipe
from some used mandrel 2.25" sections that I had laying around.
The bends are going to be CLOSE because of the shifter. I tried to cut some 2.5" bends
and hold them up to the flange.. Unfortunately I just can not make the 2.5" fit. I am going to put a flex
coupler in the downpipe and then make it 2.25 into the coupler and 2.5 out.
I'll shoot another picture of the downpipe on the car tomorrow.
I can't wait to drive this monster!
Here are some photos.
later
Mike
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2426sm.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2429sm.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2430sm.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2432sm.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2433sm.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2435sm.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2436sm.JPG)
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OH.. I sent the Spearco fuel riser to Giles..
he said it's worthless unless he made a new fuel pin for it.
The device gives only like 1mm of fuel pin movement
LOL
but.. it still looks really cool!
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Nice lookin' goods! :)
1mm fuel pin movement could be very noticeable... that would be like turning the full load screw in nearly an entire turn. Probably not enough to take full advantage of your planned 20 intercooled psi though!
What is that little tab bracket welded to the top of your downpipe? Good looking welds by the way. TIG? 304 stainless flange to match the tubing is a very nice detail.
Edit: oh by the way I also had a very tight fitting downpipe with the shift linkage very near in my ongoing TDI VNT turbo Rabbit 1.6 project. I was able to make the mandrel bent tubing tighter radius by cutting little pie or wedge-shaped sections out of the bent tubing, and welding those sections together. This pic shows the sections of the area with the tight bend well:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid169/pd14e8b7f93db27afb3ec4bafc468161d/f40d993b.jpg)
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Jake,
I figured you had to make that turn extra tight.
I was looking at your turbo pictures and noticed that your downturn starts
below the shift lever. With the ATP turbo manifold my discharge
sits high above the shifter lever.. so I have to make that sharp bend to clear it. It still needs some work.
catcha later
mike
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Jake,
I used some old pieces of pipe that I had at the shop. I previously used the pipe for an intake on some old turbo kit that I made several years back..
It was a bracket to hold the inlet to the head. It looked cool.. and was already welded on.. so I left it.
I have a "classic oldie" 300 amp Hobart Tig welder that my buddy gave me! It has variable ramp and pulse options too. It welds aluminum with ease.
I traded him engine mounts installed on his Lexus for the welder. It is HUGE 3 feet across by 4 feet tall by 5 feet deep! (or close too it)
I'll snap a picture of it.. it'll make you laugh.
I worked on the downpipe after work tonight. I have to weld on the flex section tomorrow night and it'll be finished.
Here is a picture of me welding a Mitsubishi Evolution exhaust with it 2 weeks ago.
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/JorgeT/images/IMG_1592_JPG.jpg)
with my new fancy Ultra Tig welding gloves ;)
I like my old thick ones better... the heat transfer on the new thin ones
will make you burn the $hit out of your hands when you accidently grab what you just welded.
Here is a link to my last exhaust project. My Buisness Manager has
an 03 EVO with the Vishnu v390 excede and misc stuff like that on the car. We Dyno'd the car at 360 WHP on 104.
I cut the flange off the Greddy exhaust where it mated to the catalyst because it was 2 3/4 inches.. the high flow catalyst was 3"
so I welded on a new 3" flange to match. Then we welded a new 3" center resonater on the car.. The one that was on the Greddy necked down to 2 1/4 inside.
The car picked up some decent top end from the mods.
Clicky Clicky (http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/JorgeT/index.htm)
The guy with the glasses is Jorge.. not me! LOL
you can see my Rabbit in the background.
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The downpipe is almost finished I have to add one more bend and some sort of an adapter to mate to the exhaust.
here are a few pictures.
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2448.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2450.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2451.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2457.JPG)
(http://www.staleys.us/pictures/cars/rabbit/IMG_2458.JPG)
The pipe directly off the turbo is 2 1/4 inches to the flex coupler.
I made an adapter and bumped the pipe to 2 1/2 inches after the flex coupler.
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Nice... :P Clear the shift linkage allright?
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Wow...Nice work! Where did you find that flex coupler? Looks like just the trick...
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A buddy of mine has that same welder I think. will also stick, AC/DC reversible polarity? What a monster! Great piece of equipment!