VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: oldskool rich on February 27, 2008, 03:53:43 pm
-
the other night i decided to crank my boost up, was running about 30psi, very very fast indeed but wen i pulled off the accelerator the exhaust would make the loudest woooosh ive ever hurd in my life.
the next morning on my way to work, happily driving along, it went woosh as normal then just stopped going wooosh. looked at my boost gauge, and i was running negative 1 bar (very strange) and all power had gone, got to sum trafic lights, all of a sudden the truck starts reving its tits off.
was sitting at 5000rpm and fire started cuming out the exhaust and more smoke than i even thought was possible. took keys out, disconected battery, pulled fuel solenoid wire off, undid my injectors and still it was doing 5k :shock: :shock: :shock: so i pulled the air pipe off and put my hand over the turbo which eventualy killed it (after nearly sucking the flesh off my hand) minits later 2 fire engines arived to put me out, lol
i know what ur thinking, but at 5k it wud of clutch slipped or just pulled a burn out, my clutch isnt very gud
it turns out my turbo destroyed its self and the engine was running off the oil feed to the turbo :roll:
took sum pics of the damage
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/fingerbanger/PB140120.jpg)
duno where the bolt off the end went,
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/fingerbanger/PB140123.jpg)
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/fingerbanger/PB140127.jpg)
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/fingerbanger/PB140130.jpg)
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/fingerbanger/PB140131.jpg)
lol arnt these 2 shaft ment to be just 1 shaft? it used up all my engine oil, engine was so nearly seezed wen i went to start it, cant believe it didnt kill it :roll:
i managed to get hold of a t3, which is now on, although im not too impressed, seems even lagyer than the k24 i had
(http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/fingerbanger/PB140133.jpg)
also has an oil leak, does anyone know where i can get an oil seal kit from? and how easy it is to change?
-
:shock: wow
I can't believe you have time to do all the crap before you finally stopped the engine. I'm surprised it didn't throw a rod or blow a headgasket
-
no way i built this engine to be indistructable 8)
(tbh i was realy suprised i didnt get a rod through my face, and im even more suprised that it still drives) although these engines are stronger than you think.
-
I know they are super strong. I drove one without a rad for about a month before the head finally warped and left me stranded on the highway. It was my cousin's rabbit and as much as I insisted that he needed to stop driving it and fix it he said it was fine so we both kept using it. Of course if broke when I was driving it so it's my fault, but anyways.
I'd drive til it hit redline on the temp gauge, pull over for 5 minutes and then repeat.
-
wow... yea this is a testament to how much abuse they can take...
i wonder how the rings are doing? must be more blowby now :( maybe that is why the turbo isn't as good? seems like everyone says the T3 is better than the K24.
what type of oil did you have in the motor?
-
It's not just the diesels that are tough. About 15 years ago where i used to work we had a good customer who had had his 16v rocco stolen but then recovered somewhat beat up . Since it had more than 250,000k on it and he wanted something new he asked us " could you see if there's any engine damage wink wink" . As by instructions of the service manager i dumped all the oil out and then started it and let it idle. 20 minutes go by and the lifters were barely noisy. Rev rev rev the crap out of it for another 20 minutes until i was fed up . The manager then told me to take some $ for the phone and drive it around for a while. I drove it for an hour in town and then a bit on the expressway, making sure i redlined it in every gear. Finally brought it back, put some fresh oil in it and gave it back to him. The customer drove it and sold a couple of months later and we would still see it around once in a while. TOUGH!
-
It's not just the diesels that are tough. About 15 years ago where i used to work we had a good customer who had had his 16v rocco stolen but then recovered somewhat beat up . Since it had more than 250,000k on it and he wanted something new he asked us " could you see if there's any engine damage wink wink" . As by instructions of the service manager i dumped all the oil out and then started it and let it idle. 20 minutes go by and the lifters were barely noisy. Rev rev rev the crap out of it for another 20 minutes until i was fed up . The manager then told me to take some $ for the phone and drive it around for a while. I drove it for an hour in town and then a bit on the expressway, making sure i redlined it in every gear. Finally brought it back, put some fresh oil in it and gave it back to him. The customer drove it and sold a couple of months later and we would still see it around once in a while. TOUGH!
sounds like he might have used that slick 50 crap... apparently people have run engines dry with similar results... even in an airplane!!!! :shock:
on my old golf before i got it my mom drove it... we got an oil change and then she took it home... on the way back it started overheating... so she pulled over and let the engine cool. started it back up and then on her way.. did this a few times to 'baby' it home. turns out the oil nut came off and there was no oil in the pan :shock: i drove that car for another 2 years after my sisters 2 years :lol: these engines are pretty damn durable.. although the blowby after that incident was pretty bad... the oil filter would be SOAKED in oil (new filter wouldn't last more than a week or so, but seeing rpm's of 6k and some 7k :twisted:) but didn't burn much oil at all.
i've heard similar stories about nissan's etc though, and i'm sure many others out there :)
-
my buddy had the same thing happen to his cummins. what happened is that the fuel solenoid fragmented itself in the pump causing it to jam at wide open. which made the fuel shutoff useless. also we noticed when we dissasemble his pump, the max fuel screw had jammed the boost pin in the full boost position, which will give it the flame out the pipe. and burned up the valves and the turbo. this is the reason we converted it to manual shutoff.
-
Damn that is some damage! :shock:
-
its pretty scary to hear a diesel running flat out,let alone be able to unbolt injector lines,mine done that on the m5 from gretna green to birmingham,a 1.6 na mk1,i stopped it by braking hard,threw air filter away,wiped exess oil from inlet manifold,started it up got it home,wouldnt start from cold after that :cry: killed it,went off a tow and run ok,never from cold
Bert
-
Since you had the boost that high, I wonder if the whoosh you heard when you let off the gas wasn't surge, which then broke the shaft on the turbo? I have always wondered how well 2 stroke motorcycle reed valves might do at preventing it.
-
My T3 makes that same surgey woosh when I let off although im only running 15psi and its not very loud....time to get creative with BOV ideas.
-
Wow! Glad you were able to stop it! Look at that turbo, it absolutely scorched! How long was it going for? What engine do you have?
-
Every time I look at the title, I keep wanting to ask if you caught it and brought it back home. :P :lol: :P :lol:
-
I'm wondering how your hand is doing :shock:
-
Big red hickey probably.
-
yeah no kiddin'. I heard a gross story about a guy that had a detroit diesel runaway, so he yanked the intake hose off and sat on the intake right before the turbo.......uh...that was the last thing he ever did. The moral of the story, NEVER sit on a turbo!
-
its is an AAZ, my hand is fine, wasnt driving long enough for the turbo to get hot.
it was reving at 5k for about a minit, it may hav been less, seemed like ages.
its amazingly easy to change the turbo on a mk1, only took 20 minits. ive been driving it since, it seems fine no damage at all.
although my replacment t3 is also spitting oil, if anyone knows about changing seals advice wud be greatly apreciated, and where can i buy them from?
-
its is an AAZ, my hand is fine, wasnt driving long enough for the turbo to get hot.
quote]
it has nothing to do with getting too hot , but rather SUCKING all the flesh off of your hand into the engine ....
a couple posts up mention a guy with a detroit diesel ....... what i had heard with the story was he sat on the engine to stop it from running away , and it sucked all his insides out his butt and killed him .
-
its is an AAZ, my hand is fine, wasnt driving long enough for the turbo to get hot.
quote]
it has nothing to do with getting too hot , but rather SUCKING all the flesh off of your hand into the engine ....
a couple posts up mention a guy with a detroit diesel ....... what i had heard with the story was he sat on the engine to stop it from running away , and it sucked all his insides out his butt and killed him .
Thats pretty graphic in words alone ... :x :shock:
With the minimal knowledge I have with turbo diesels...is the "whoosh" you're all mentioning have to do with the fact that the amount of boost is causing the turbo impeller to turn backwards after letting off the pedal? I know on a buddy's dad's duramax, they did a larger exhaust and chipped it and it makes a "whoosh" noise and this is what he believed what was happening.... :?:
-
the garretts totally rock over the kkk's
it has just a little more lag down low,but when it comes on
it hits in the middle harder,and carrys up top more
my tdi-m proved that for me
et's with kkk:14.4 or so
garrett,14.1's or so
my garrett blew the turbine wheel right out the downpipe too at the track once
i just disconnected the oil feed line and plugged it and drove home
track officials didnt find the wheel either...
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7751/hpim01959he.jpg)
(http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/1574/hpim01941xs.jpg)
-
its is an AAZ, my hand is fine, wasnt driving long enough for the turbo to get hot.
quote]
it has nothing to do with getting too hot , but rather SUCKING all the flesh off of your hand into the engine ....
a couple posts up mention a guy with a detroit diesel ....... what i had heard with the story was he sat on the engine to stop it from running away , and it sucked all his insides out his butt and killed him .
Thats pretty graphic in words alone ... :x :shock:
With the minimal knowledge I have with turbo diesels...is the "whoosh" you're all mentioning have to do with the fact that the amount of boost is causing the turbo impeller to turn backwards after letting off the pedal? I know on a buddy's dad's duramax, they did a larger exhaust and chipped it and it makes a "whoosh" noise and this is what he believed what was happening.... :?:
sucked his insides out his butt? urban legend or what!!! time for myth busters! :lol: who is stupid enough to sit on an intake anyways? i guess if its all he could think of... i have heard of people getting their insides taken out by pools and living. just need to be on a machine for the rest of their lives.
as for the woosh its just turbo surge... the turbo is going from a super high rpm say 200'000 being fueled to not being fueled at all... so the engine requires less of the boost pressure, so some of it can't be sent through the engine... so it starts to come back out the inlet of the turbo. a BOV in this case would probably be a good idea. make it come on when the engine returns to idle and there is more than 20 psi boost hanging around
-
I'm wouldn't be so sure that is an urban legend. I've read lots of really messed up warnings in aircraft books and they have all been written in blood. :S
-
I've never heard of someone using a body part for it, but I know some old 2 stroke diesels have enough suction at the intake to eat a phone book.
mythbusters disproved the pool suction myth IIRC, but the intake on some diesels would be considerably more than a pool filter pump...
Do not attempt to stop motor with hands, face, or genitals! similar to a warning on a electric chainsaw.
-
omfg lucky for me that the turbo shaft had snapped in half, sounds like i would hav been dead if it hadnt. just the inlet suck alone was enough to realy hurt
my t3 is definatley leaking, if i take the pipe off it spits oil. not loads but enough to worry me.
this turbo may hav not been used for 5 years or so, do you think it may just need running in? im sure the oil retern isnt blocked.
am i ok to not use an intercooler? i heard that with bigger turbos its not so important because there is more air volume and it never gets that hot
sorry if this is a bit of a tangent but i have aquired a tubular manifold, was wondering if anyone has tried running to 2 k14s from 2 exhaust outlets each? wudnt that reduce lag and also allow higher boost? or am i talking ***? :roll:
-
sorry if this is a bit of a tangent but i have aquired a tubular manifold, was wondering if anyone has tried running to 2 k14s from 2 exhaust outlets each? wudnt that reduce lag and also allow higher boost? or am i talking ***? :roll:
actually rich,
somebody here on the forum built a dual turbo motor!
off the top of my head i can't remember who? but it was impressive!
somebody will chime in that knows where that thread is!
Duane
-
I've never heard of someone using a body part for it, but I know some old 2 stroke diesels have enough suction at the intake to eat a phone book.
mythbusters disproved the pool suction myth IIRC, but the intake on some diesels would be considerably more than a pool filter pump...
Do not attempt to stop motor with hands, face, or genitals! similar to a warning on a electric chainsaw.
thats why i use a chunk of 2by4
those detroits rule
i saw one run away one time(detroit 12v71),the mechanic took a sledge and smashed the fuel lines right off the cyl head!!!!it quit within 3 or 4 seconds
-
you could always incorporate a butterfly valve hooked to a cable. I bet someone has to make a compact one.
-
I've never heard of someone using a body part for it, but I know some old 2 stroke diesels have enough suction at the intake to eat a phone book.
mythbusters disproved the pool suction myth IIRC, but the intake on some diesels would be considerably more than a pool filter pump...
Do not attempt to stop motor with hands, face, or genitals! similar to a warning on a electric chainsaw.
i remember seeing it on TV and it showed the little boy who's innards were sucked out because he sat on the water suction port where the cover broke off. if you get a good enough seal the hydraulic effect would certainly put lots of pressure. now pools are required to have two drains so that you don't have that happening... they even measured the suction force and it was pretty high. only way to get the kid off was to turn off the pump.
i think mythbusters disproved a myth where the fire rescue helicopters sucked up some scooba diver with their water pumper... obviously that one failed because of the size of the opening and because you need the hydraulic effect from the water (putting a glass in water, filling it, and then raising it above the water level... the water doesn't drain out until you break the air tight seal)
-
I'll make another suggestion for people that wanna be fancy.
Carry a CO2 fire extinguisher, or make your own with a CO2 tank from a paint ball gun (some piping, and valve system that'll evacuate the whole bottle in a second or two.)
Gotta have air to burn on a run away, and it gets you further from the intake.
the CO2 will prevent fuel or oil from being burnt by lowering temperatures in the cylinders and displacing air.
-
Maybe I can do that with the Halon system from my race car I'm parting out. It basically removes the O2 from the air. Only problem would be no room to put it anywhere. It is even cable operated.
-
I'm not sure about halon, I suggested CO2 because it doesn't leave residue. If you use halon do you end up having to clean up a mess left from discharging it. If so, I'd not use it unless you plan on a full rebuild immediately following the injection into the intake.
-
AFAIK, it is a liquid which turns to gas, which absorbs oxygen, no residue.
-
Halon would be an excellent choice. It is used in basically all aviation fire extinguishers (including the fire bottles for engines). It is really good stuff and is about 3x more effective than the same amount of CO2.