VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: veeman on April 05, 2005, 06:09:07 am
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I'd like to convert my 1.6 TD to the non-ac pulley setup. I've done this on the gas engines, but it occurs to me that I won't be able to use the same brackets because the injection pump is in the way.
Does anyone have pics of a non-ac type bracket setup? I'd imagine the pulleys and the alt adjustment bracket are different. Better yet, anyone have a setup to sell?
Thanks in advance
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I'd like to convert my 1.6 TD to the non-ac pulley setup. I've done this on the gas engines, but it occurs to me that I won't be able to use the same brackets because the injection pump is in the way.
Does anyone have pics of a non-ac type bracket setup? I'd imagine the pulleys and the alt adjustment bracket are different. Better yet, anyone have a setup to sell?
Thanks in advance
well, the biggest problem you'll have is removing and installing the top two bolts that hold the bracket on. Not sure if you've tried this yet or not, but just to prime you for it, it is lots of fun. The diesel non A/C alternator bracket is indeed quite different from the gas one. They are also quite hard to come by since most people who have one want to sell them with the engine. You might be able to sneak one past a scrap yard counterperson who doesn't know what it is. Forget about used parts stores, they won't take them off the engines.
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When I find a diesel at the yard, most of the time it does not have A/C. Actually, neither of my diesels have A/C either. I never even thought about it being something that somebody would want so maybe I'll grab it next time I come across a setup.
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VWMike...
Can you post a pic of your engine bay without AC? I've never even seen the non-ac bracket.
Definitely grab those setups! I'm sure I'm not the only one to want these.
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I sent you a link to the one I just bought on ebay.
You also need the crank and waterpump pullys and the longneck alternator pully .... for the A1 setup anyway. I saw a COMPLETE setup, bolts and all, go for around $117 on ebay.
Don't forget the small bracket on top that connects to the upper timing belt cover.
Most sellers don't include this.
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Here's what an A1 diesel non-A/C alternator bracket looks like:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid107/pe1ba7fbc5e3aa53de9df3e30a4bc6d40/f960e4aa.jpg)
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Sorry I didn't get a chance to take any pictures today. I'll try and snap a couple tomorrow and get them hosted.
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There's one of the early, welded steel, non-AC alternator brackets on ebay now ... and it's not cracked :shock: .
You need an early style injection pump bracket to work with it ... and they didn't include the small upper bracket so it's about worthless.
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I'd like to convert my 1.6 TD to the non-ac pulley setup. I've done this on the gas engines, but it occurs to me that I won't be able to use the same brackets because the injection pump is in the way.
Does anyone have pics of a non-ac type bracket setup? I'd imagine the pulleys and the alt adjustment bracket are different. Better yet, anyone have a setup to sell?
Thanks in advance
I uploaded 3 pics of my non AC bracket to imagestation. Unfortunately have no idea how to post them here. Here is the link:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=2128422166
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>>I uploaded 3 pics of my non AC bracket to imagestation. Unfortunately have no idea how to post them here.
Those pics look great. Thanks! To post them, you might need to have a "hosting site" that can link to this forum. I can post them if you like.
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>>I uploaded 3 pics of my non AC bracket to imagestation. Unfortunately have no idea how to post them here.
Those pics look great. Thanks! To post them, you might need to have a "hosting site" that can link to this forum. I can post them if you like.
sure, go ahead. If you need any explanations of stuff that you see in those pics, just ask. I've had the entire front of the engine accessories off of that car (removed injection pump, alternator bracket, water pump) so I can tell you anything you need to know about how it all goes together.
Chris
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Ok, here is my truck - it's an '81 with the CR 1.6.
(http://home.comcast.net/~vwmike00/Pictures/truckalt1.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~vwmike00/Pictures/truckalt2.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~vwmike00/Pictures/truckalt3.jpg)
Here's the Jetta - '88 1.6TD MF code engine (yes, I know it has a fram filter. It was on there when I bought it and I haven't changed the oil yet). It also has power steering whereas the truck does not.
(http://home.comcast.net/~vwmike00/Pictures/jettaengine1.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~vwmike00/Pictures/Jettaalt1.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~vwmike00/Pictures/jettaalt2.jpg)
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Wow... thanks guys! That definitely helps.
I'm having trouble identifying the "small top bracket" that others have remarked about? It's the one that the timing belt cover attaches to. Is this it?
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album02/truckalt2.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album02:truckalt2)
Here's another view from chrissev's pics...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album02/nonac_bracket3_m.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album02:nonac_bracket3_m)
These things are pretty rare around here. I'm not sure I've even seen any diesels in a yard during the last few years.
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Yep, that's the top bracket... it bridges the alternator bracket to timing pump bracket. You can see there are two different versions of braketry systems - with A1 being different than A2. By the way, the A2 has a clip-on two-piece upper timing belt cover whereas the A1 has a bolted on one-piece timing belt cover.
These brackets are not that rare... At least they aren't turbo-specific!
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I think that A2 non-AC alternator bracket is even more common than the diesel A1 style ... they used the same bracket AC or not right?
Just changed the alternator, adjuster and belt ...right?
...and I think it's a 90 amp alternator.
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Wow... thanks guys! That definitely helps.
I'm having trouble identifying the "small top bracket" that others have remarked about? It's the one that the timing belt cover attaches to. Is this it?
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album02/truckalt2.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album02:truckalt2)
Here's another view from chrissev's pics...
(http://www.hostdub.com/albums/veeman_album02/nonac_bracket3_m.jpg) (http://www.hostdub.com/veeman_album02:nonac_bracket3_m)
These things are pretty rare around here. I'm not sure I've even seen any diesels in a yard during the last few years.
The bracket you have circled in my pic is the small top one people are talking about. You need that to stabilize the bracket as it is quite long and held onto the block with only four bolts (that go through the water pump). I would imagine you could manufacture one if you needed to. The bolt/nut assembly you circled in the first picture is not the alternator bracket at all and is actually part of the injection pump backing plate. The interesting thing about the A1 alternator brackets (shown in the first pic you posted) was that they tended to break in half. You could fix them by welding them back together. The A2's don't seem to do this. But the interesting thing about the A2 brackets is they are much harder to remove as there is almost no access to the top two bolts.
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The bolt/nut assembly you circled in the first picture is not the alternator bracket at all and is actually part of the injection pump backing plate
Not so...
The upper timing belt cover on an A1 is bolted to the small bracket, on top of the alternator bracket.
Here's one I bought awhile back on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=7951326896&sspagename=STRK%3AMEAFB%3AIT
Same kind as is in the top picture.
...which ... has no lower timing belt cover?
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I think all you need is the long alternator pulley. Once you have the AC pump removed push the alternator down and have a new adjustment bar made to come up from below the alternator. You'll need some strap steel with a hole and a long slot made up. My car has this setup but the adjustment strap is up on top and I have a really long 1170 belt. The belt rubbed on the timing cover so I removed the cover and filed off a ridge.
Steve
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Is the reason everyone wants to do this mod because they have belt problems with the AC to Alternator system?
Ray
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>>Is the reason everyone wants to do this mod because they have belt problems with the AC to Alternator system?
For me, no... I want to get rid of the extra weight and complexity associated with those systems. I've done the conversion on a few gas motors and it really makes that whole area better to work in AND drops a few pounds (important on cars that don't have huge hp to begin with.
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The AC belts on my car only lasted 20,000 km at a time so eventually the previous owner had a fit and got all the AC junk ripped out. It is a horrible design to begin with and even if you switch to the 1.9l serpentine system you still have to use a V belt for the power steering. :twisted:
Steve
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The bolt/nut assembly you circled in the first picture is not the alternator bracket at all and is actually part of the injection pump backing plate
Not so...
The upper timing belt cover on an A1 is bolted to the small bracket, on top of the alternator bracket.
Here's one I bought awhile back on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=7951326896&sspagename=STRK%3AMEAFB%3AIT
Same kind as is in the top picture.
...which ... has no lower timing belt cover?
I don't think it is like that on all the A1s. That bracket to the alternator bracket might have been a later addition. It looks like it is bolted on both sides of the bracket (one to the timing belt cover, other to the alternator bracket). On both my 79 diesel rabbits the alternator bracket could be removed by simply removing the four bolts that held it to the engine. So I think that the bracket to the timing belt cover was a later addition, perhaps only on the US built cars.
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The piece connecting alternator bracket to injection pump bracket also supports the front of the A1 diesel's timing belt cover. So if this piece was missing in your '79, then how was the front of the timing belt cover supported?
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On the TD Quantums (Non a/c) the alternator is positioned on the same side as the starter maifolds. (With or without power steering)Which is next to water pump.
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He's right, the '79 would have the welded steel alternator bracket. Not the cast iron one in the picture.
There is one on ebay now and you can see the part that comes up high and bolts to the upper timing belt cover. There isn't a small bracket attached to the top. I had one of these and it cracked so I went with the later, cast iron bracket.
I had to change injection pump brackets too because of where the alternator bracket bolts to the injection pump bracket. I had to match the brackets or they wouldn't mate up.
Your '79 have the lower injection pump bolt from the pump side? Instead of the nut from the gear side?
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The piece connecting alternator bracket to injection pump bracket also supports the front of the A1 diesel's timing belt cover. So if this piece was missing in your '79, then how was the front of the timing belt cover supported?
it was supported on the backing plate. And also by a carriage type bolt (T-head) that went through the water pump. Neither of my 79s had the bracket in the first picture. The alternator bracket broke in half on the first 79 I had, and I had to take it out to get it welded. Four bolts and it was out. No bracket. Might just have been on the US built 79s that that bracket was present. Both mine were German built Canadian imports (round headlights). I never have owned a square headlight Westmoreland car so I don't know what the bracket situation was like on them, but I have a feeling that it was different, as illustrated by the extra bracket in the first picture that attaches to the timing belt cover, that neither of my german 79s had.
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He's right, the '79 would have the welded steel alternator bracket. Not the cast iron one in the picture.
There is one on ebay now and you can see the part that comes up high and bolts to the upper timing belt cover. There isn't a small bracket attached to the top. I had one of these and it cracked so I went with the later, cast iron bracket.
I had to change injection pump brackets too because of where the alternator bracket bolts to the injection pump bracket. I had to match the brackets or they wouldn't mate up.
Your '79 have the lower injection pump bolt from the pump side? Instead of the nut from the gear side?
as far as I can recall, two bolts were on the pump side, and one on the gear side.