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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: andy2 on January 31, 2008, 05:51:21 pm
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The 2.4 5 cyl (AAB) engine found in the eurovan is non turbo but has oil cooled pistons :wink: .The 2.4 piston is 79.5 mm and the wrist pin is the same size as the 1.6 so if the 1.6 block can handle the bigger diameter piston (76.5 up to 79.5) then you could have a 1.7-1.9 ???Also the height of the 2.4 piston from the wrist pin center to the top when compared to the 1.6 is 2 mm shorter.This helps bring the compression ratio back down if the pistion was used in a 1.6.I still think that the compression ratio would be a little higher that 23:1 but not too much.Assuming a 1.9 head was put on this block then the compression would be lower so it may end up being close to 22.5-23:1.I'm not 100% so possibly someone else could do the math.Anyhow this might interest someone who likes the 1.6er revs but likes the 1.9's displacment.Get some H beam 1.6 conrods too.
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well done mate! i have a 1.6 block in the shed at home that was left out in the rain for years - might be a good one to test the big bore theory on...
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Thatīs the piston Iīm using :wink:
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I thought a while ago someone measured cylinder wall thickness and thought it would be too thin after being bored out that much in a 1.6.
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Here is some info on some sonic wall testing of the 1.6 blocks that was done.
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6948&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=sonic&start=0
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How much does a set of these pistons cost, and what brand are they? Mahle, Kolbenschmidt, other? Having a smaller pin size than your standard 1.9 diesel piston does have some interesting implications...
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wonder if its possible to buy 2.4 TDI pistons... 1.7TDI anyone? :o
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Tdi and 1.9td have 24mm wrist pins and the 1.6/2.4 have 22mm pins so I don't think it would be worth modifing.
MJF what crank rods and block are you using if you don't mind me asking?
I was thinking of a possible other combo like 1.9 block,2.4 pistons,1.6 crank and custom rods :lol:
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Tdi and 1.9td have 24mm wrist pins and the 1.6/2.4 have 22mm pins so I don't think it would be worth modifing.
MJF what crank rods and block are you using if you don't mind me asking?
I was thinking of a possible other combo like 1.9 block,2.4 pistons,1.6 crank and custom rods :lol:
Tdi and 1.9td have 26mm and 1.6/1.9na/2.4 have 24mm pins :wink:
I have AAZ block, 1.9na/2.4 pistons, 1.6 crank and custom rods :lol:
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Why did you choose to go with the 1.9 NA pistons over the 1.9 td pistons?
I would think you would want the 26 mm wrist pin, no?
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Why did you choose to go with the 1.9 NA pistons over the 1.9 td pistons?
I would think you would want the 26 mm wrist pin, no?
AAZ pistons are so heavy :lol: NA piston is also much shorter so, a little better rod/stroke ratio.
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My mistake Nick,So the custom rods did you get them made to keep the piston potrusion above the deck to keep the stock compression ratio or did you lower the compression any by making the rod shorter than required?
I take it that they are h beam rods as well?What company made them for you?
Very nice setup anyhow :wink: .I only stumbled acrross this possibility after inspecting a disasembled 2.4L.So the 2.4/1.9NA pistons are the same do they share the same rods as well?
I wonder if the 2.4/1.9Na rods would work with this combo (1.9td block,1.6 crank,1.9na/2.4 pistons)?They would be a different length than the 1.6 or 1.9TD rods I pretty sure.I should have measured those 2.4 rods :) .
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I wonder if the 1.7L (KY) engine has the same pistons as the 1.9na and 2.4?
I guess the only issue with most of these non turbo pistons is that they may not be ideal for high HP/boost applications?However I supose If they were cryo treated,Creamic/teflon coated that they would hold up fine.
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I wonder if the 1.7L (KY) engine has the same pistons as the 1.9na and 2.4?
I guess the only issue with most of these non turbo pistons is that they may not be ideal for high HP/boost applications?
I am pretty sure the 1.7 pistons have oil squirter cut outs, I don't think the 2.4's do, but its been a long time, I have never seen the 1.9 na pistons.
MJF do you have the weigt differences between the 1.9na pistons and the TD pistons?
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2.4 engine /Pistons are oil cooled that I know for sure
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2.4 engine /Pistons are oil cooled that I know for sure
Oh ok good to know, last time I saw one of those apart was like 4 years ago, hard to remember now.
I don't really like the idea of the 2mm less piston height though, I'd rather reduce compression with head modifications to the deck and pre cups.
Hey Andy how is your 1.9 coming along?
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MJF do you have the weigt differences between the 1.9na pistons and the TD pistons?
Canīt remember exact, itīs been over a year since we weighed those. 1,6TD and 1,9na is ~same weigh, 1.9td is over 100grams heavier.
I have Carrillo rods, which I bought used from ebay. Those were locally fitted to my engine :D I havenīt lower compression, itīs actually a little higher than stock due bigger bore...
Iīve never disassembled a 1.9na, but it must have at least same length rod than 2.4. And that will be 150mm. Piston is same. 1.9td 144mm and 1.6 136mm
KY pistons are different than 1.9/2.4. Itīs same height than 1.6 piston IIRC.
E: This Mahle web-catalog (http://www.motorenteile.mahle.com/eLIZA/app/welcome?locale=en) is pretty handy 8)
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So someone had the Carrillo rods custom made for this application and than you picked them up or are they meant for something else?
Why not use KY pistons?
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Rods are from Nascar SBC with Honda journals. 1.9 pistons are easier to find .
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My project is waiting on some h beam rods as I don't feel like trusting the PD100 rods.I figured while I had the head off I'd go a step further and put the rods in now.Once I get It back together I'll have to cross my fingers and hope the turbo's will work.I'm determined to make the turbo setup work properly at all costs!
BTW great numbers Dave also are you using stock rods?Love to see the RPM on later dyno runs.The torque is Fairly conservative with the 1.6 so this might be what helps it hold together better than the 1.9.
Mabye I'll run honda rods too this time Nick :lol: .I was planning on getting the H beam TDI conrods that Kerma TDI sells.The TDI rod is the same dimentions as the 1.9td.
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Thanks andy, I don't what the heck I did to get the time to come up instead of rpm, rpm was on the computer when we printed it out. Oh well the runs are saved on the computer at the new shop so I'll just get a screen shot on monday or tuesday. But iirc my peak is like 4900rpm and the boost drop was around 5400 or so, the run ended right at 6000rpm.
I am on stock rods, bearings and bolts! I put in ARP mains though, I didn't really do anything to the bottom end. No time, once the new shop is setup I will build a 1.7 bottom end and go for 250whp. The 1.7 should give me a little more torque, so would a smaller turbine housing. At no point does my emp pass my imp.
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A user by the name scopefrfd was doing something with 1.7 79.5mm pistons in a 1.6 block.
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The 1.9 NA has oil squirters aswell. Atleast my AEF engine mounted in the 1999 Caddy (euroversion).
As far as I know all the 1.9īs has oil cooled pistons. All the NA engines Iīve disassembled had squirters. Might be some early models that didnīt.
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A friend of mine is building a 2100 TD based on a AAZ.
Walking through the Mahle catalog I found these pistons and after buying the pistons they were in my garage for a year. Than I desided to sell them and my friend bought them.
I'm using the 83.0mm pistons from a Ford 1.8TD. Same compression height. Pistonpin diameter. Only needed to cut out space for the oil squirter and a little extra clearance for the crank.
I already asked him for the buildup pictures. This monday or tuesday he is coming to have the pump and Injectors installed. (using a modified LT 2.8TDI pump) I'm going to take some pictures from it.
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A couple of pictures of the 2100TD
(http://www.zwalve.eu/d/1695-1/2100-04.JPG)
(http://www.zwalve.eu/d/1698-1/2100-07.JPG)
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Bert..
Which block are you using?? it seems to be 1.9 cuz of water jackets between the cylinders..
can i bore my 1.6block to use 1.7(KY) pistons?
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The block that is used for this conversion is the 1900TD AAZ 1996 with crankshaft from a AFN.
Yes you can use them, but as allready discussed in this forum. Not all 1.7 Pistons are designed for oil squirters and they may not have the same strength as the 1.6TD version.
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The ones i have do have the cut for oil squirters!!
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Hello.
what headgasket do you use on this 2.1L ?
is it tdi rodīs your use ?
best regards Casper From Denmark
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OMG! :shock:
Now if only I could find 83mm TDI pistons. :twisted:
Brendan
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1.7D aparently do have squirters.
2.4D deffo has squirters.
2.5TDI does have squirters also.
as far as I know, the 2.4D AAB (or AJA) use the same pistons as a 1Y or AEF, they are 1.9D NA.
I have a Kolbensmidt book at work, if I remember I will look them up tomorrow, infact, I think I have the data on disc but I can't get their catalogue to work with b'stard Vista so I can't easily check...
Edit..
Just had a play around and got it to go..
(http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/images/simon/forums/GTD/aabpiston.jpg)
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Ive' read your topics and am my self interested in boring out a 1.6 na to a 1.7 or better td. I'm not sure the concern for the cylinder thickness is a real concern, I've been around diesels since 1973, the 6-71 is a two stroke 6 cyl normaly with a blower, and also avail with a blower and turbo, for 325 - 375 hp. half way down the liner there are a series of scavenger holes that go always around the liner. this is where the intake air is passed into the cyl, a set of 4 valves in the head expel the burnt gases out the exaust. I can't remember the storke but these engines took a load of abuse and kept running and I only saw a very few liners cracked at the scavage holes.
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i've read on here that a 1.7 made from a 1.6 block will crack with too much power, i dunno how much truth there is to it tho
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Yeah, I remember talk of racers in Europe bending rods and cracking blocks.
Would be good to know where the blocks cracked, if it was the walls,.. or near the headbolts.
Enough power to bend rods could cause stress around the headbolts.