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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: slorimer on January 28, 2008, 07:37:20 am
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So I bought the IP seal kit and throttle shaft bushing. Started dissasembly, marked the throttle arm position relative to the shaft. Took the governor cover off, after a bit of wrestling as there was a arm on the front side of the pump holding it in. Pushed out the bushing, replaced the shaft seal, cover seal and started to reinstall. Backed the max fuel screw out to make installation easier. Started putting everything back together, went okay, wrestled with the throttle return springs for a bit. Got them on, connected everything back up (I think). Go to start, no go, nothing. Cranked intermittently for about 3 mins total. Crack the fuel lines at the top of the injectors, tried again, no fuel. Hooked up a vacum pump to return fuel line, pulled fuel through, no problem. But after each test always noticed a big air bubble in fuel inlet line. Does this suggest I have a air leak somewhere. Can't think of where it could be leaking from. Is there any tests I can do to find the leak. I can hear the fuel cut solenoid clicking/moving but haven't removed it. Any suggestions on how to get this baby going??
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Did you screw that max fuel screw back in?
" " put your foot to the floor while cranking.
Not much fuel flowing at engine cranking speeds.
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Thanks for the reply
I did screw the max fuel screw back in and double checked that last night. And last night I tried what you suggested, cranked for about 20s with foot to the floor with injector lines cracked. Got nothing, not a drop. I think I will have to take it apart again to see if anything looks incorrect.
Is it possible to install the throttle arm onto the shaft 180 degrees out. I don't think so because when I was rotating the shaft before the arm was on, its movement was limited to a particular sweep.
Anybody ever install the throttle arm 180 degrees out??
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Not only when the key is in the run position but also when it is in the start position
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Good point.
I know it clicks it the run position, but I never checked it in the start position. Will do tonight.
Thanks
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Good point.
I know it clicks it the run position, but I never checked it in the start position. Will do tonight.
Thanks
Or just remove the plunger from the solenoid and reinstall... then power doesn't matter in terms of troubleshooting.
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Good point.
You need fuel flowing through the pump and back to the tank before you look for fuel at the injectors.
I hook a clear line to the return line and suck on it until fuel has been pulled through the filter and pump.
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did you count how many turns out you backed off the max fuel screw?
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Thanks for your suggestions all.
I've tried pulling fuel through by putting vacuum on the return, and after a bunch of air, I am able to get a solid stream of fuel out the return. Although, as soon as I let off the vacuum a bubble is visible in the incoming line. I will try pushing fuel in tonight until I see it coming out the return.
As for the max fuel screw, I am sure I put it back the way it started, because the lock nut is corroded to the screw so the whole thing backed out and I just screwed it back in without changing their relative position.
So if I fill up the feed pump, put the throttle to the floor and crank, assuming fuel cut solenoid is energized, I should get fuel out the injector lines which I have cracked correct?
If I don't where should I look next.
Thanks for sticking with me on this one.
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Alright so I tried pushing fuel in and it goes in with some pressure and I can get a solid stream of fuel out the return. Floor the pedal and crank and I get nothing out the injector lines. Something must be screwed with the throttle shaft, so I think I'm taking it back apart. Crap
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When I took it apart again, I noticed that I couldn't push the plunger in with the fingers. I could see how the max fuel screw adjusts the max movement but still wasn't able to compress the plunger. Does it require a lot of force? Should I have been able to compress it?
Just so I'm clear, I was trying to push on the arm which pushes on the end of the plunger. This arm is what the governor/throttle attaches to. I was trying to push the arm/plunger towards the pump sprocket side as it was all the way the other direction.
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Okay, i think I understand it a bit better now. Movement of the arm should cause the round collar to slide away from the the cam plate. Currently on my pump it is right against the camplate. By moving the arm I should be able to get the collar to slide correct? Or am I still missing something.
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I thought about the that, but came to the conclusion it couldn't go together with the throttle shaft rotated 180 degrees or the throttle arm being 180 degrees out. Do you disagree?
When I have everything installed, and I work the throttle, I can feel the 2 different springs of the governor coming into play. One spring can be felt right away, and the other comes in towards the max throttle position. I think this tells me that the collar isn't moving on the shaft and me rotating the throttle shaft isn't doing anything but compressing governor springs. Sound right.
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Appreciate your help all.
libbybapa, and all
I've posted a few pictures,
http://www.engsoc.org/~slorimer/IMG_3646.jpg
http://www.engsoc.org/~slorimer/IMG_3648.jpg
http://www.engsoc.org/~slorimer/IMG_3649.jpg
When you are referring to the bleed port are you referring to the 4 holes around the plunger in the first picture or the single hole further out on the shaft in the second picture. Third picture is just for reference.
From those pictures, what/whre is the control collar? The round thing that is geared will obviously not move out much as there is a pin restricting its movement.
After taking it apart this time, I am able to move the plunger without problem. I don't know what has changed. When it was full of full and I moved the arm towards the sprocket end of the pump fuel squirted out the hole shown in the second picture. Is that right?
Sorry for all the questions, but its getting interesting.
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Thanks libbybapa
I wasn't even close was I. Anyways that makes much more sense. I've added another picture.
http://www.engsoc.org/~slorimer/IMG_3653.jpg
So when I move the accelerator lever, the lever goes down to a ball that moves a collar that I have labelled in red. This collar really only moves if I have the max fuel lever pressed in a bit (as would be with the cover in place). The piece in green stays against the cam plate. Does this sound right? For whatever reason this accelerator would not move the last times I took it apart.
And just to shoot myself in the foot a bit more. Taking it apart this time, the spring which connects the idle lever(outside the pump) to the accelerator lever inside dropped into the fuel and I've searched but can't see it. Is this catastrophic? Do I need to remove the pump to get it out, or will it lay peacefully down there? I will replace the spring, but don't know if the one at the bottom will cause any problems.
Thanks again
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Alright thanks a bunch
I can't see the spring but I'll have to try and fish something down there. Otherwise I guess I'll have to remove the pump to turn it upside down, to get it out. Crap.
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Okay so I ended up having to remove the pump to get the spring out. That was fun got to change the timing belt and thermostat which I had been wanting to do. So I put the new timing belt on and stopped there. Before putting the other belts and injection pump lines back on I decided to check to see if the pump was shooting any fuel at all. So I primed it by pushing fuel in through the inlet until I saw a steady stream out the return. Then I connected the fuel cut solenoid after removing it and checking its operation. So now when I crank I see fuel coming into and out of the pump and I don't seem to see any leaks anywhere. I think this suggests the fuel stop solenoid is functioning otherwise I wouldn't see the fuel flow. However cranking it for 3 or 4 20s periods and I haven't got a drop out of the those little valves on the injection pump before the injection lines. I paid particular attention to the throttle shaft seeing how it moves the control collar and ensuring it can move it to max throttle setting. So now I have absolutely no idea why it isn't pumping. Any ideas?
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You're getting closer to victory for sure.
The fuel solenoid controls the flow of fuel to the high pressure side of the pump, so even with a bum solenoid you will continue to see fuel flow thru the pump. Good engineering actually.. the pump continues to cool and lubricate itself even as it idles down when you shut off the solenoid.
A lack of fuel at the output ports (assuming you've cranked enough to prime that end of the pump... which you seem to have done) with good circulation means there's an issue on the high pressure side... some common causes are:
- no voltage to the solenoid... does it click when the key is turned on and off ?
- a bad solenoid... to test you can pull it, remove the plunger and spring, and put the solenoid body back. Be ready to stall the engine with the clutch and tranny/brakes if it starts !
- the control collar disconnected from the throttle level during reassembly
- a blockage (ie dirt, sludge, etc) internal to the high-pressure side
- fuel screw turned out too far (did you move it during assembly ?)
Just some things to try...
Vince
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So I removed the guts of the solenoid and tried cranking again, still no fuel at all coming out the ports.
So I guess I'm left with,
-control collar disconnected(doubt it cause I could see the collar moving on the plunger when moving the lever.
-blockage internal to the high-pressure side is a possiblity although I never saw anything convincing and the pump was quite clean to begin with.
Haven't touched the fuel screw.
I'm thinking of grabbing an injection pump from a wrecker, although that comes with its own unknown problems. Any other suggestions?