VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: Baselyne on January 27, 2008, 11:07:05 pm
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So I recently snagged this smooth an clean cluster from a e-bay auction!
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/gr.jpg)
I was bidding for a while... I finally recieved it and yes it's mint!
I was wondering if this gasser cluster is an exact "PlUG & PLay" swap for my diesel cluster wiring?
Has anyone ever put the gasser cluster into their diesel?
I heard something about the W terminal... Where on my alternator would I be looking to check if I have a W turminal? Maybe someone who has one could show us with a picture??????
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Some options....
Signal converter for $65:
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=128/category_id=105/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd128.htm
Or modify the cluster itself:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3741
Or Roger's photocell interface:
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/CheapTricks/Tachometer/index.shtml
Im wondering would i need a signal converter if i was just going to use a gasser cluster? or...why's this seem so confusing
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Yes the signal the gas cluster gets from the coil is completely different then the signal the diesel cluster gets from the w terminal
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so but otherwise....It's plug and play then? The cluster I mean....It's plug and play or what?
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(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/altquestions.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/altquestions2.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/altquestions3.jpg)
So if someone could varify for me... I was wondering if this is the W terminal....You know over all the freakin threads on this noone shows a damn picture of the alt with a W terminal... Is this drivin anyone else nuts?
Is this the W terminal in the red box above?
if not can someone please post another pic of one that does because noone seems to know jack about this...ive read everything and I still think its vauge not VAG!
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that looks like it to me. not sure how to get it to work with a gas tach though. my best guess would be to swap over diesel tach circuitry.
nice clean looking cluster :)
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Nope, pretty sure that's an axillary D+ terminal for a noise suppression capacitor that someone removed... and it's labeled D+. Any W terminal I've ever seen on an A1 alternator is labeled "W"
The alternator in the picture *does not* have a W terminal as far as I can see... it has two heavy red (B+) wires to the battery and a thin blue wire (D+) to the ALT light on the cluster.
There are no pictures likely because there are lots and lots of alternator configurations across the years.
If you don't mind pulling it apart you can add your own W terminal:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/W-terminal.jpg)
You'll then need to convert the W signal into something your gasser cluster can understand... tons of previous conversations about this on the forum.
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Thanks for the diagram, i was at the yard today f'in aroud in some beaters and I found this fine piece of ace!
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/altques.jpg)
I was wondering if this is the W terminal im looking for? there isnt a male spade connector here but On the other side of this black box thingy there is another Wterminal and it's connected to a white plug sorta,,,
What do I need to do to get the signal im looking for?
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/altques2.jpg)
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Thar she blows !!!
That be the W terminal... and you'll note that this one also has the noise suppression capacitor installed via another terminal as is missing on your previous alternator. :wink:
To use this alternator you'll need to cut off the white plastic plug on your existing harness and replace it with lug connectors... the two big red wires go to the 13mm stud labeled "B+", the thin blue wire goes to the 10mm stud above it, and of course a spade connector plugs into the W terminal.
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It almost looks like the W terminal is not installed on that alternator. It looks like the housing is equipped for it but not installed. It might just be the camera playing tricks though
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I do beleave im headed down the dekoda digital driveway... I'll have to get one of those...kinda looks cool im just wondering about setting it up????? Can someone whos done theirs chime in?
"I'm converting a gasser cluster to speak diesel thru a signal converter... which terminal on the cluster do I need to connect the converter to ?"
Props goes out to Vince Waldon!
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Yeah that one looks like it has a W terminal, but it's not there,... no blade to plug into.... but a place to put one.
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Might be my imagination but I can almost see the lug... however, might make sense to see if you can get a spade connector in there before going to all the effort.
In terms of the cluster wiring my A1 Bentley is missing at the moment... hopefully someone else will chime in with which pin the tach signal goes to on a gasser chassis ??
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The Alt. that is on my gasser looks just like that- it has the "W" space there but I cannot see any spade connector. It's also on the car so it's kinda hard to see any details.
I've also heard that the newer Bosch alt's that are on the TDI engines also have a W terminal? Can anyone verify this?
Thanks,
Brendan
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If you don't mind pulling it apart you can add your own W terminal:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/W-terminal.jpg)
When attempting to instal my own W terminal with this info above am I to solder the termminal on to the board? or is there someone in GTA or durham that could get this done for me for quick/cheep?
Anyone please... The signal convertor is already on the way and most of the cluster is alredy into the car, but I cant figure out this tach lead in=put wire
does anyone know which wire it was..when they did theres or has a manuel to chek?
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I've also heard that the newer Bosch alt's that are on the TDI engines also have a W terminal? Can anyone verify this?
TDIs get their tach signal from the ECU as far as I know so I don't know if the alternator would have W terminal... but what do I know ??!!
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can someone varify the above question/answer?
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can someone varify the above question/answer?
You'll find the answer in your gasser Rabbit circuit diagrams. I suspect it has a separate flying lead... Gasser Dashers did [I only have that diesel Rabbit /Golf book to look at] Chase the wire back from terminal 1 on the spark plug coil. It may be coloured Pink/Black maybe??
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Thar she blows !!!
That be the W terminal... and you'll note that this one also has the noise suppression capacitor installed via another terminal as is missing on your previous alternator. :wink:
To use this alternator you'll need to cut off the white plastic plug on your existing harness and replace it with lug connectors... the two big red wires go to the 13mm stud labeled "B+", the thin blue wire goes to the 10mm stud above it, and of course a spade connector plugs into the W terminal.
If you look really close that alt has 2 "W" connections. The one doesn't have a spade connector in it but the other is under the wire leading from the noise suppressor and the suppressor is plugged into the "W" space.
See it?
I have the same alternator on my Jetta. no terminal in the "W" hole but there is in the other hole.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/altques2.jpg)
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(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/wsignal.jpg)
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what are the chances of removing the noise suppressor (since I have no radio installed and im not worried about distortion there) an pluggin in my tach or signal converter in it's place?
Your saying that on your alt (that's the same) you can infact use that W term.?
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That arrowed hole looks like the other holes ...so you may have 6 'W' terminals lurking... :shock:
Did you find the instrument terminal listing for the gasser tach?
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If you have no radio then the suppressor is optional... but just to be clear, the noise suppressor plugs into the D+ terminal not the W terminal.
However, the previous poster is thinking there's another W terminal hiding under the noise suppressor wire... why not remove the noise suppressor and see ??!!! You might get lucky !
Vince
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If you look really close that alt has 2 "W" connections. The one doesn't have a spade connector in it but the other is under the wire leading from the noise suppressor and the suppressor is plugged into the "W" space.
I have the same alternator on my Jetta. no terminal in the "W" hole but there is in the other hole.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/altques2.jpg)
Ok so remove it
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/removing.jpg)
The noise suppressor removed and found....nadda
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/withoutnoisesurpressor.jpg)
Im guessing im back to this?
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/W-terminal.jpg)
If you don't mind pulling it apart you can add your own W terminal:
Cluster
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j76/basslyne/mygasserclusterback.jpg)
Is that all that's involved then? Stright to the sinal convertor then to the W-terminal (IF THERE WAS ONE!)
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Can someone explain whats involved in DIY installation of the W terminal onto this above alt?
I'd like to try and tackle this myself it possible...
Can someone varify what the three black things are in the above diagram...are they things im to solder togethor or do I need to add them
Im not sure what's going on in the diagram to be honest
could someone help that's done this is understands this diagram
thanks for everyones support on the matter thus far.
this forum rocks
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Can someone explain whats involved in DIY installation of the W terminal onto this above alt?
I'd like to try and tackle this myself it possible...
Can someone varify what the three black things are in the above diagram...are they things im to solder togethor or do I need to add them
Im not sure what's going on in the diagram to be honest
could someone help that's done this is understands this diagram
thanks for everyones support on the matter thus far.
this forum rocks
The three black 'sausages' are representing the resistances of the three copper wired coils. Just get behind those arrows which represent the rectifying diodes and connect solder to one of the coils. The signal will not be right for the gasser tach though. 2 or 3 components will need to be changed to prevent malfunction/meltdown :wink: There are several different internal circuits for tachs most have been modified by a Mr Reg Cheeseman on this site...
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The signal converter you've ordered will likely come with instructions, once you've added a W terminal.
If you get stuck on the alternator, pull it apart and post some pictures of the big coils that surround the perimeter .. we can then draw arrows as to where the W terminal can go (there are 3 possible spots).
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So when one has a signal converter and the W terminal they are then ready to install the gasser cluster?
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On the above picture of the backside of the instrument cluster, Have you moved the wire pointed to by the red arrow? That wire is normaly for the light for the speedometer, which is missing along with the lights for the tach.
If you have the bentley manual with elec diagram for your car and the car the cluster came out of, should be able to match up what goes where.
but yes, once you find the W terminal, follow directions for the signal converter to hook it up, then proper connections to the tach, should work. Just double check everything so you don't let the smoke out (fry electrinics)
electronics work on smoke, once it comes out, you can't put the smoke back and the circuit works no more. :wink: :lol:
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Realize this thread is old, but the discussion addresses my need, so hopefully someone with more knowledge can respond.
As the op of this response mentioned, with the "signal converter to hook it up, then proper connections to the tach" , can someone advise how-where-etc. it is connected to the gasser tachometer please? There are no connection terminals on the back of a 1982 gasser tachometer.
However the tach is 'plugged' into the cluster's circuit 'board' with the 3 threaded prongs that come thru 'wired' circuitry. So, at that point, the tach is in the vehicle's electrical system. But ... where does the electrical system, and the 4 cylinder output of the signal converter, join?
On the above picture of the backside of the instrument cluster, Have you moved the wire pointed to by the red arrow? That wire is normaly for the light for the speedometer, which is missing along with the lights for the tach.
If you have the bentley manual with elec diagram for your car and the car the cluster came out of, should be able to match up what goes where.
but yes, once you find the W terminal, follow directions for the signal converter to hook it up, then proper connections to the tach, should work. Just double check everything so you don't let the smoke out (fry electrinics)
electronics work on smoke, once it comes out, you can't put the smoke back and the circuit works no more. :wink: :lol:
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The hand-drawn wiring diagram in this thread:
http://www.vwcaddy.com/showthread.php?s=2ef42968ed43c8f0a334350ad7b90266&t=36652 (http://www.vwcaddy.com/showthread.php?s=2ef42968ed43c8f0a334350ad7b90266&t=36652)
suggests that the tach is the red-with-black-stripe wire.