VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 935racer on December 17, 2007, 09:13:31 pm
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Getting some work done for my new DD, hoping to go over 200whp, should have it running by the end of the week. :twisted:
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2176.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2175.jpg)
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(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2156.jpg)
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if you want you can put that in my car, i'll tell you how it runs
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is that the 1.6 block 1.9 head config? i don't see your pulsed exhaust manifold on it!
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what's the detailed story on the clutch presure plate straps?
4 puck disk with springs should launch a little more smooth than the solid 4puck I used on my old 2.0 ABA 16V turbo.
looking good
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Proper pulsed exhaust manifold to come this is a quick build, I don't have a car right now so I need to get his done by the end of the week. After I get it some what tuned I'll build the tubular manifold and a get a bigger pump. I hope right now, with what I have I can get to 200whp, after that I want about 230-240 daily driver reliability. This is being build completely of parts that I had around the shop, no time to order parts, so its not quite as done up as I would like but it'll be nothin to frown at thats for sure :P
The pressure plate is a 210mm sachs unit, they come with both single straps and double straps, the single are thicker than the doubles. What I did was weld the two thinner ones and a thick one together, after I tightened up the bolts I welded the bolts to the pressure plate. Should hold 300+WHP, more than the o2o will hold anyways. The flywheel is 210mm as well, lightened down to 5.2lbs :twisted: That with the 4 puck sprung center clutch disk and I have a bullet proof clutch set up.
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Just moving that air filter someplace cooler will be good for a lot. Looks sweet!
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Just moving that air filter someplace cooler will be good for a lot. Looks sweet!
It was only on there to keep stuff from going in the inlet, there will be a 3" ss mandrel bent CAI built in no time, just wait 8)
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but i can't wait!!! :lol:
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Looks good!!!
Two boost guages????
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I bet one is for exhaust manifold pressure :)
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DAVE! can i test it?!! :lol: :lol:
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three things
1) what does the valve cover say
2) that is gonna be sweet
3) that is onve of the cleanest things i have ever seen
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1) what does the valve cover say
"Passenger Performance" I'm guessing.
2) that is gonna be sweet
3) that is onve of the cleanest things i have ever seen
x2 :twisted:
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Thomas and Trevor, your welcome to come test it just send a ***load of money and your car and it'll be done! :lol:
G-spec, slave2school hit the nail on the head, the silver gauge is for exhaust manifold pressure, that brass fitting thats by the wastegate in the exhaust manifold is for the gauge.
Heres a couple more pics, theres actually more done right now than in the pics, I have all the coolant lines and all the factory sensors hooked up now. Have a lot of wiring to do to get all the autometer gauges going, and battery relocation to the trunk. After thats done I can fab the turbo inlet, downpipe, wastegate dump, 3" exhaust, and charge piping for the fmic. Don't know hom much time I'll have to work on it tomorrow, have a lot of work to get out before christmas.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2177.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2178.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2179.jpg)
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It was only on there to keep stuff from going in the inlet, there will be a 3" ss mandrel bent CAI built in no time, just wait 8)
Just making sure! :^)
It seems a shame to put the timing belt cover on over those purty red pulleys. You need a lexan cover. :D
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curiousity...why you running 2 boost gauges?
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What turbo and pump are you using?
Canīt wait to see dynoslip 8)
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curiousity...why you running 2 boost gauges?
i believe this was answered on page one
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curiousity...why you running 2 boost gauges?
i believe this was answered on page one
sorry my bad :oops:
shoulda read it first
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So what's with the clip-on timing cover? You expect to be in it that much?
Like the looks of the holes in it too, but...............? On a DD?
While you are cloning mo-mo's....................clone one with A1 mounts please! Or do we know how to remount an A1 to look like an A2? (Right hand mount anyway, maybe front as well.) :twisted:
A guy can dream, no? :wink:
Damn fine job by-the-way! Way Cool!
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here's one to keep track of.
Damn fine work.
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Way to go. What an incredible build. PLEASE take some video for us. :!:
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how are you going to handle the headgasket issue everyone else seemst o have?
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Wow I think I can count at least 4 different cars that have donated parts to this "Franken motor"
Looks good Dave, glad to see your feeling better.
I hope this turbo spools well.
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What are the 3 fittings attached to your spiffy manifold for? Something going to be injected through them :) .
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that might be a franken motor! but it should be called the BLACK WIDOW!
it reminds me of those creapy spiders dressed in black and red! means wicked! anybody agree? Dave?
Dave i haven't had the pleasure of chattin with you ! but our paths should cross soon? glad to hear your feelin better!
thanks Duane
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What are the 3 fittings attached to your spiffy manifold for? Something going to be injected through them :) .
i'm going to guess one is for the gauge, one is for the waste gate, and one is for the pump
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It'll be awesome to another franken IDI alive again :) I was worried every modder was getting distracted by TDIs (not that they're bad!). The IDIs seem to have cool potential we haven't explored yet.
Dave: Keeping power steering or getting rid of it?
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I was worried every modder was getting distracted by TDIs (not that they're bad!). The IDIs seem to have cool potential we haven't explored yet.
Big nono for tdi:s here :lol:
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Sigh, so I work a long day, 7 am to 9:30 pm, stoked I have a couple hours to work on my car, get everything hooked up ready to start it, no fab yet but wanted to hear it idle. No fuel at injectors... solenoid is sticky, put another used one in that worked fine, tested it in and out of the pump, its all good. Still no fuel to the injectors. Filled the pump, filter and lines with fuel, nothin.
I think the vanes have seized up from sitting for so long or something. This is Malones old Giles stage 4 pump from a couple years ago, only ran for a couple thousand km's, than stored with diesel fuel since than... Tomorrow night I'll steal my buddys hand pump from his outboard motor on his sailboat and get that on the inlet of the pump, dunno if its gonna help much. Damn really wanted it to fire tonight. :evil:
Anyone got any tips for freeing up sticky vanes?
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Turbo is a big t3/t4.
Pump is a giles pump with 9mm head, plannin on gettin a bigger pump but want to get this up and running first to see how much more fuel I need.
Clip on timing cover is from mk2 td's
Not worried about the holes, I don't drive through 3ft deep of mud :o
What are ya meanin by momo's?
We'll see how the headgasket stuff goes, I am hoping with the extra porting, manifolds, bigger turbo etc, the hg issues will be less due to better flow and pressure distribution.
Yeah theres a lot of parts from different cars here
:lol: Thanks to all my friends like Mark, Erik, Brett, Keegan and all for helping out and donating trading parts etc!
The fittings on the manifold are for boost gauge, wastegate and lda like trevor said.
Black widow... I like it! black and red is one of my favorite color combos. I used to smash those spiders to bits when I was a little kid.
Power steering- already deleted 8)
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Turbo is a big t3/t4.
Pump is a giles pump with 9mm head, plannin on gettin a bigger pump but want to get this up and running first to see how much more fuel I need.
I donīt think youīll get even nearly 200whp with 9mm pump, best Iīve heard is ~160 at crank. BUT, you can always prove me wrong :)
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Turbo is a big t3/t4.
Pump is a giles pump with 9mm head, plannin on gettin a bigger pump but want to get this up and running first to see how much more fuel I need.
I donīt think youīll get even nearly 200whp with 9mm pump, best Iīve heard is ~160 at crank. BUT, you can always prove me wrong :)
I've got some big ass custom injectors as well, we'll see, I know its not enough for where I want to go but I think I can get to at least 180, I just want a good base to see how the motor re acts to things than I'll go big, I have a 14mm plunger here...
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Just got off the phone with Giles, he recommended trying to tow the car, to try and get it to turn over faster, might free up the vanes, that combined with the pump sitting over night with some atf and fresh fuel in there it might free up.
Also Giles is gonna build me my 14mm pump finally :twisted:
6000rpm and 14mm goodness here we come!
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Good gracious you've been busy!! Everything looks real sweet. Hope you get some fuel to light that fire. 8)
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is 6000rpm possible with 14mm pump? :shock:
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It may well be when Giles is done with it :D
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No sweat. 8)
Giles is hopeful that we'll be able to coax the pump to 6k or better. We'll keep you posted - we're glad to be helping out with this sweet project.
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Dave, please tell me you have a lift pump on this motor.
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Lift pump coming, not sure which one to get yet, but obviously one is in order along with water meth and likely NOS as well.
So we got the pump speed up tonight, towed the car around, no luck, still no fuel, pressurized the tank enough for the tank seals to leak and the filter to leak, still no love from the pump :x Only had about 45 minutes to work on it tonight, got the tranny stuff done, axles in, shift linkage, speedo cable etc. Clutch doesn't work :evil: Don;t know what wrong, thought maybe the clutch pushrod finger broke and slipped a couple teeth in the fifth gear end cone there, in my experience when that happens though the pedal sits on the floor, this feels like clutch is working right, but it won't disengage. Real weird, feels perfect but no love :evil:
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I got a Walbro FRB 11 from here (http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/fr_pumps.html) , working well, long life and low power consumption.
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crazy project 8)
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Lift pump will be here tomorrow, hope to do all the fab work tomorrow as well.
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I got a Walbro FRB 11 from here (http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/fr_pumps.html) , working well, long life and low power consumption.
I'm curious, where did you mount it?
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Black widow... I like it! black and red is one of my favorite color combos. I used to smash those spiders to bits when I was a little kid.
well Dave BLACK WIDOW it is! you should have a sticker made or have that distinctive red hourglass shape they have on thier bellys but painted on your block or something like that? or hey on the oil pan? that would not be too hard since it's in the car now?
be neat to see something of my influence on something far away? i'd be honered!
i also was afraid of them spiders thier webs are erie! when i was a kid i'd use my dads brake spray cleaner and watched them shribble up! Kewl!!
next will have to share exaust designes?
thanks Duane
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I got a Walbro FRB 11 from here (http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/fr_pumps.html) , working well, long life and low power consumption.
I'm curious, where did you mount it?
PM on its way.
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Cool project! You're my inspiration. I've got to get started on my build. :)
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The Black Widow is alive :twisted:
Just fired her up, lift pump did the trick. 8 psi at 32 gph. Still need to get my clutch deal figured out, fab up the charge piping and downpipe, and wire the gauges. Mounted the intercooler this morning, after dinner now I will go fab the charge pipes and hopefully the downpipe as well before 1 am, than in the morning do the gauges and pull the end cone of the tranny and see whats up. Hopefully get it on the street tomorrow and see how she rips.
LOVE the sound of the franken motor.
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Nice job! I was just looking at your clutch pressure plate, the picture where it shows the welded strap, I was just wondering if it is the bolt head
on the underside of the strap that is just hitting the cast part.
Once the flywheel is bolted on, it is being compressed and won't have enough clearance to let the friction plate release.
Just a thought,
Have a great Christmas and a happy new year.
Herman
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Congrats on the start up! :D
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Herman, I cut off the bolt heads and ends after they were all welded up, which isn't shown in that picture. I just pulled the cap off the 5th gear end cone, the throwout bearing is sitting way too far down in there, the push rod finger is fine. So something is wrong with my pressure plate, not sure what, I've done this before without ill effect. :?
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Hi Dave, in the exitement to get it running could you have forgotten to put the pushrod in or the little push plate?
Happened to me once replacing the clutch, had the car jacked up and the push plate and spring ended up under the front tire, never saw it.:oops:
Sure a pain to have to pull it back out
Herman
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No the pushrod and push plate are both in there, I pulled the rod out, looks fine, throwout bearing is brand new and in good shape. Something about the the push plates position is wack, with the end cap off I can get the pushrod to bottom out on the push plate, but its too far down the throwout bearings bore. The pushrod finger is fine and on the correct spline. Tranny has to come out :x I would have pulled it out tonight but because of my recent appendix removal my gut isn't quite ready for the rest of my body to be a tranny jack all by itself, that and I burnt the back of my hand pretty good about 2 hours ago :( I'm having all the luck around here :lol:
I'll get the tranny out in the morning and try and solve the problem. I have a wedding to go to tomorrow as well as finish christmas shopping so I don;t have much time, and my sunday is booked as well. All day monday and tuesday though, can't wait to get this thing ripping down the road :twisted:
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Oh and I've seen one of my friends do the push plate mistake as well. He was doing it my shop on the hoist, and I was sick as a dog so I was laying on the fab table just makin sure no one was getting hurt, a while after he got the tranny back in I got up to answer a question he had, looked at his parts pile and noticed the push plate... Poor guy had to pull it all apart again.
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just coming here in the trailing end of this thread, but have you swapped the pushrod for another? I know this is a long shot, but I know 4sp rods are shorter than 5sp and I have even seen 5sp rods worn to the point that they dont work right. Maybe as simple as a pushrod swap?
Trying to save you from pulling the trans ;)
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just coming here in the trailing end of this thread, but have you swapped the pushrod for another? I know this is a long shot, but I know 4sp rods are shorter than 5sp and I have even seen 5sp rods worn to the point that they dont work right. Maybe as simple as a pushrod swap?
Trying to save you from pulling the trans ;)
Already pulled the pushrod out and compared to another from the same code gearbox. :wink: I don't see how it could be anything else, somethin with the pressure plate center plate is not right. The weird thing is seems like quite a bit, the throwout bearing seems to be about 3/4" too deep in its bore, unfortunately I don't have any other cars here with o2o gearboxes to check to get a more accurate measurement.
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Another thought then is the possiblity of a cracked pushrod finger. I just replaced one of those yesterday and another one a week ago. Still trying to save you here :D
If it makes you feel any better, I get to replace my clutch on the Scirocco tomorrow. I dont know your setup (tl,dr) but I used a new "used" 210mm clutch off the shelf when I put it together and from my experience, Sachs had a bad run of pressure plates/release plates about a year ago. That would date my clutch to that time. For some reason the three retainer fingers were not close enough to the crank to retain the release plate :roll: on top of that, I also saw multiple failures of the release plate ripping one of the three alignment fingers off. Now I dont know if it was one or the other but it seemed that it all happened in the same time span of the new clutches we were doing at the time.
HTH.
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Yeah as mentioned above I already checked the clutch pushrod finger. I am wondering if the push plate center has kinda moved out a bit or something... I don't know, but I will in a couple hours as soon as one of my buddys half way recovers from last night and makes it out here to help me.
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Man!!!!!!! I've been checking this post far too often for the next installment. The suspense is so thick. I can't wait to hear how she runs!!!!
Go 935 Racer Go
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Ok so tranny is out, clutch is apart, new pressure plate arrived this morning...
Everything measures the same, between my pressure plate and a brand new sachs pressure plate. And this is with the thrust plate, clutch disk and flywheel installed. So its not the pressure plate. I think something is up with the thrust plate itself. I think I am just going to extend the little center rivet of the thrust plate out more and weld it in place... First I'll do some more digging around the shop thrust plates.
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Alright well I got it all sorted out, clutch tranny etc are all back in the car and working properly. I couldn't figure out what the heck the problem was so I welded a M6 nut to the pushrod plates' center to shim the pushrod. Works well at least. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get a good portion of the fab done, really need to get this thing on the road.
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Got the FMIC all tacked up today, I'll get some pics tomorrow when I hav the rest of the fab work done. Tomorrow I plan on doing the turbo intake, downpipe, wastegate, and full 3" exhaust 8)
Not too far now, hoping on the 27th I can get the rest of the stuff I need for gauges than I should be on the road.
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and i am here to see it 8)
some videos of the beast would be neat :idea:
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Who did you decide to go with for a maker on the FMIC?
What Dia. are you going to run for the IC pipes? I am interested in the volume of flow vs. velocity of flow.
Bigger pipe allows more volume but at less velocity, smaller pipe has more velocity but less volume. In Maximum Boost, I remember reading something about maximum velocity being 400( I cant remember if the 400 is CFM or what :? ). Anything over that and you run into resistance be the air itself.
So to allow the fastest movement of air, without restricting volume, I guess you/ us / we/ me need to figure out a couple things. How much air will be forced through the pipe at WOT. What Dia. pipe will allow you to get closest to 400(???) without going over.
I know this was discussed on this forum a while ago. Someone posted some cool information that had all the maximum air volume/speed info
broken down by inside dia. of the pipe. It had a long list of avail. diameters to work with. I will try and find the post a little later today as time permits.
Hope all goes well with the fab work. I won't be far behind you. :twisted: :wink:
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Bigger pipe allows more volume but at less velocity, smaller pipe has more velocity but less volume. In Maximum Boost, I remember reading something about maximum velocity being 400( I cant remember if the 400 is CFM or what :? ). Anything over that and you run into resistance be the air itself.
So to allow the fastest movement of air, without restricting volume, I guess you/ us / we/ me need to figure out a couple things. How much air will be forced through the pipe at WOT. What Dia. pipe will allow you to get closest to 400(???) without going over.
Corky Bell listed it as maximum feet per second. I use his formula then round up to next size or so. I don't have my notes handy but I crunched the numbers for a 1.6 at 24psi ignoring volumetric efficiency just a pure air pump any by memory was about 1 11/16" inside diam minimum. The larger the pipe the more lag you get, so it's up to you to balance lag and flow, keepin in mind length of pipe too. My air/water IC has 2.25" OD pipe and is right over the trans, so my pipe will end up around 2 to 2.25" OD, .065 wall, but with what I am doing I need a broad power band and will give up a lil top end for less lag and better mid range. Takes time to fill up cubic yards of pipe :wink:
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I found the information. This link has a good discussion on the volume vs flow topic. Pipe dia. listed as well as max cfm and mph.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8959&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=intercooler+diameter&start=15
So I guess part of the information needed to solve the equation is CFM that the Franken will put out at max RPM. I am iterested in this as well as my Franken is nearing completion.
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Damn forgot to get pics, tomorrow I promise.
Ok so all the charge piping is done, seam welded and installed, same with turbo inlet, downpipe, and wastegate dumptube. Gauges are half wired, still need to relocate the battery, finish the gauges, and build the exhaust. Tomorrow should be rippin up the streets. :twisted:
Oh and the charge piping is all 2.5", downpipe, exhaust and turbo inlet are 3".
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Is all that shiny metal painted?Looks awesome..I could only hope my build comes out this good..
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For the wastegate dump tube, is that a seperate pipe? If so, how did you plumb it in? Does it rejoin the exhaust sys. or terminate on it's own?
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All the SS piping is being left raw, its actually polished the way we buy it, but we decided to dull the finish by cross graining it, I like the look.
The wastegate is currently dumping into the atmosphere, and we made a megaphone out of it. Haven't stopped laughing it looks so funny.
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is possible to make a k24 WG to dump to atmosfere?
what is involved?
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is possible to make a k24 WG to dump to atmosfere?
what is involved?
No, you need an external WG to do that.
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The car is more or less done, gauges are wired, battery relocated, all the fab work with the exception of the exhaust system. Haven't been able to go drive it though because all the snow :cry: Tomorrow the snow should be melted enough to get it out on the road.
Here are some pictures:
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2204.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2205.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2206.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2207.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2208.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2209.jpg)
Anyone remember this jetta? Its been sitting for 2.5 years!
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2210.jpg)
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Dave, your welds are amazing! Can't wait to see how it runs.
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Anyone remember this jetta? Its been sitting for 2.5 years!
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2210.jpg)
Malones old Jetta?
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You got it!
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Took it on the first test run today, blew the *** out of 2nd gear :twisted: :evil:
The pressure plate is still giving me grief, I am going throw in a stock one until I decide what I am going to do about the tranny/clutch situation, not sure if I will keep the o2o or go o2a... Basically what has happened with the pressure plate is with the three straps, its too strong, the fingers compress but will not depress the straps :cry: so three straps is too many, 2 works fine though...
arghh need this thing going, hopefully have time to swap trannys tonight or tomorrow.
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How did 2nd gear meet it's maker?
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I think the tranny was already on its way out, and there is a lot of power behind it now. For some reason my speedo wasn't workin on the test run but it is very fast.
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looks great! i wont say anything about long intake pipes and lag though, hehe. hope you get those tranny issues sorted
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So we finally got some good test runs in tonight. Max EGTs at 1500, boost was set to 30 psi, perfect 1:1 drive ratio too, problem is it needs to be at 5500rpm to make 30 psi. We managed to pull past 220km/h. Wish I had a Gtech, to get some ball park 1/4 mile times... This turbo is a bit laggy though, about 10 psi at 4k rpm.
Tomorrow when it is light out I will spend some time tuning it to see if I can bring spool time down. A big pump, cam, and tubular exhaust might be enough to keep this large .63 ar turbine housing, or I may have to switch to a .48...
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You will have one up there shortly.
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Built the exhaust system today, looks pretty nice. I'll get some pics up tomorrow. Anyways this things HAULS ASS on the top end. Tonight we managed 230km/h uphill, it was still pulling! 6000+ rpm in 5th gear upphill and it wanted more :twisted:
Right now it drives much like a stock 1.6td under 4000rpm, which is nice for daily driving, and it doesn't make any boost under that so there isn't really any strain under the motor for DD purposes. But man when this thing spools it pulls hard. Only problem I have is too much boost drops off when I shift, I think with the 14mm pump I could have a lot more fuel under boost, which I need, which should really help me keep the turbo spooled. As long as I can get the boost to come on good at 4000-4300 and pull like all hell to say 6200 rpm I am a happy guy.
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Hey Dave,
where did you find that exaust manifold that on the first page of this thread?
i like it! allready has a spot for a waste gate! kewl!!
thanks Duane
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Hey Duane, manifold is from my friends over at kinetic motorsports. If you are in need of one this manifold will be for sale soon along with this downpipe because I will be going with a tubular manifold.
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hey dave, mind if i make another visit this summer :wink: :lol:
your work is amazing.
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Hey Duane, manifold is from my friends over at kinetic motorsports. If you are in need of one this manifold will be for sale soon along with this downpipe because I will be going with a tubular manifold.
ahh that would be great! what populare turbos work with that manifold?
i'd like to get one of your intakes also!
send me a P.M. on what your thinking ?
thanks Duane
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hey dave, mind if i make another visit this summer :wink: :lol:
your work is amazing.
Anytime man, you should come down for the import invasion this year at mission raceway. I'll let you take my jetta for a rip, and while your gone with it I'll steal the recaro interior from your jetta :P
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do you think 0,48 a/r hot side from MB 300turbo would help with lag? What is your exhaust wheel?
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Dave is that the 350HP rated intercooler from Precision?
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I can answer that. Yes it is the 350hp model.
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Fab up a compound set up and add a K14.
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I can answer that. Yes it is the 350hp model.
Thats the exact same one sitting on my shelf, thanks to your reccomendation Brett.
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A K14 would be way too small for a compound setup with this turbo, and so would the k24 or stock t3. It would work well with a Mb t3 turbo though. I am going to source out an external gate .48 ar stage 3 turbine housing to swap on here and see how I like it. And likely get a better waste gate, this one seam to leak too much when its closed. Unfortunately all the t3 turbine housings I have here are internally gated and won't fit my turbo.
Erik and I did some test runs today, got the egt's up to 1600 degrees on a long pull up a hill in 5th at about 5800 rpm, pushin 30 psi in the intake manifold and about 26 in the exhaust manifold. Can't complain about that! We'll see what its like when I get the cam and smaller housing on. I think I am going to hold off on the pump upgrade until I get the airflow a little more sorted out so I can really specify what I need fuel wise.
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So what are you doing for the headgasket issues? ARP studs or stretch bolts? Copper HG? Does the cylinder head lessen the chance of HG failure? Is that head an AAZ one?
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Ok so found out my wastegate had a major leak, no firering between the manifold and the wastegate... so I need to find one. I made a wastegate block off plate and now the turbo spools fine, full boost before 4500 rpm, it rips! Only problem is that I now get surge at 30psi, but only at 30 psi plus, before that its fine, which is weird, drive pressures are the same as before, maybe a couple psi higher, about 28 psi of exhaust pressure to 31 psi of intake manifold pressure. I can't rev it over 4500 rpm right now because its surging pretty bad, its really weird usually with surge it comes on way sooner than 30 psi... Anyways hopefully I'll track down a firering for the wastegate in the next couple days and see if I still have the surge issue with a functioning wastegate, if I do I'll go with a dual stage boost controller and than I should be good for 35psi which is the limit I want to push on this turbo.
My #3 injector started making a lot of noise tonight as well, I'll pull that tomorrow and figure out whats up with that.
Exhaust pictures in a few minutes.
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Ok so found out my wastegate had a major leak, no firering between the manifold and the wastegate... so I need to find one. I made a wastegate block off plate and now the turbo spools fine, full boost before 4500 rpm, it rips! Only problem is that I now get surge at 30psi, but only at 30 psi plus, before that its fine, which is weird, drive pressures are the same as before, maybe a couple psi higher, about 28 psi of exhaust pressure to 31 psi of intake manifold pressure. I can't rev it over 4500 rpm right now because its surging pretty bad, its really weird usually with surge it comes on way sooner than 30 psi... Anyways hopefully I'll track down a firering for the wastegate in the next couple days and see if I still have the surge issue with a functioning wastegate, if I do I'll go with a dual stage boost controller and than I should be good for 35psi which is the limit I want to push on this turbo.
My #3 injector started making a lot of noise tonight as well, I'll pull that tomorrow and figure out whats up with that.
Exhaust pictures in a few minutes.
SWEET!!!!!
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Exhaust pics before it was seam welded:
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2211.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2212.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2213.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/PICT2214.jpg)
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damn dude that is nice! Looks familiar lol
edit* IS THAT 3 INCH?!!
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ahh Dave ,
that waste gate dump maga phone syle thats sweet! how does it sound?
also get back to me about your exaust manifold i'm serious about buying it when your ready! let me know what turbos fit it? i asked in my last post about that but you never said?
thanks Duane
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where did you come up with that megaphone? Where do you buy your pipe at? I'm looking to buy some so i have been shopping around. The build looks awesome. Keep up the progress.
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Thomas, its 3" 8)
Duane, the manifold fits all standard t3 turbo and larger gt series turbos. I am not sure when I'll sell it but it will be a decent deal, I will want to sell it with the downpipe. Probably will sell it in a month or so. The waste gate dump is pretty loud, I'm not really into open wastegate dumps myself,but my homies here at the shop love them, and I had these 1.5"-3" transitions sitting here for at least a year so... open dump I went! I may go with a dump into the downpipe when I build the tubular manifold however.
Foxracer1, the megphone is just an .065" wall transition from 1.5"-3", I bought 3 of them some time ago for a sanitary job I did,I didn't get them from my regular supplier and what I received was not legal for sanitary, so they have been sitting around since, not worth much to me except for maybe some autmotive use, this is the only thing we could come up with, and the guys have been begging me to run a megaphone open dump so there it is.
Andrew, thanks man.
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you have a video or sound clip of the car yet Dave?
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Not yet, but in the next few days I hope to have everything together enough for a video, I don't have a video camera but I think my little sister does so I'll see if I can snake it.
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Dave that will work perfically for me! my girl plans on getting all this and one of your intakes for me for my B-day and that in the first week of march ! she's a total die hard vw girl! i'm luckey! if you wanna get rid of one of those dump pipes? i still gotta do my waste gate on my stroker truck!
send me a P.M. on what you need for them so the ol'lady knows what she's spending this year!
thanks Duane
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I too would be interested in a megaphone. Let me know what you need. I'm also planning on a cam in the near future.
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I am sure some or most of you may find this a stupid question, and it may have been answered already. (I looked and could not find it though.) What turbo are you running?
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Could you answer my questions on the previous page? Don't mean to sound like a jerk but I'd really like to know.
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I will see what I can answer from what I remember.
rallydiesel It is an AAZ head, he is running a stock metal hg, with eldelbrock gasket stuf, and arp studs. (Dave correct me if I am wrong here, as this is your standard setup.)
dieselabstimmen: The question was answered on the first page or two, but I'm feeling nice tonight so i wont tell you to go search. It is a T40E/T3 hybrid with a .63 AR hotside.
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It is a T40E/T3 hybrid with a .63 AR hotside.
what do you think, how would it work if use this same hybrid but with .48 AR hotside or T3 super 60 turbo?
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It is a T40E/T3 hybrid with a .63 AR hotside.
what do you think, how would it work if use this same hybrid but with .48 AR hotside or T3 super 60 turbo?
It would have a bit better low end pull, but surge even worse on the top end then it does now. T3 super60 would surge a lot less, but also has like 15lbs/min less flow... Kinda comparing apples to oranges.
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What, if anything, did you have balanced?
What have you used for coatings in the engine? Did you coat the pistons or areas of the head, etc...?
Are the big ass injectors the Dieselicious ones you have had sitting on the shelf? What did you go with for breaking preassure?
Jim
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Any updates?
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Wow, just read through this for the first time, crazy just crazy. Can't wait to see vid's of this thing running. Its really inspiring, can't wait to go home tomorrow night and work on my jetta now.
1SlowVW
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I just looked at the exhaust pics on the last page, man that looks sweet, :shock: I wish I had the stuff and the skills to make that, 'course, I don't have the time though :roll:
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I know Dave has posted this in another thread, but I thought I would try to keep this one all together. This is his Dyno chart from his dyno pull today. It has zero correction factor, and zero smoothing. Dave also clicked on the wrong thing before he pushed print so it doesn't have rpm, but now that He is moving to this shop and will have a dyno full time, I'm sure we will see not only some more HP, but a smoother graph, with RPM. Also he was having trouble maintaining boost on the dyno, it would peak at 28psi, and quickly fall back to 22psi. Anyway enough blabing here it is. Edit: It is a brand new Mustang Dyno
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b382/dvst8r/Davejetta020208.jpg)
Hoping for a 200+ in the very near future. :wink:
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Wow, all that with 9mm pump :shock: Looks like there was still more to come if the boost would hold right :D
Also starts to look like Iīll have to get my Rocco back running and back to dyno... :lol:
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damn
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Yeah thats a giles 9mm pump, I was really bumbed the boost dropped off like it did, it was weird case 20 minutes later on the street it wasn't. I'll do a few more runs this week and take care of the 200 mark.
Than I need to build my new manifolds, get a enw turbo, cam, injectors, pump, water meth... 250?
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but i wonder will ur headgasket last, i hope so because i'd really like to copy your setup haha
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My hg is fine, I have arp studs, which I torqued to 100 ft-lbs instead of 75, and I used Edelbrock Gaskacinch on the hg, both surfaces were dead flat, so far no problems.
AS for tranny parts, I am on #3 :lol: o2a swap is planned for the near future, and that will include a peloquin lsd, and likely cyro'd gears.
Also forgot to mention I figured out the smoke at idle/misfire issue for franken motor cold starts, you need to run a minimum of 1.15mm of timing, I am actually running 1.25mm right now, starts like a charm even at -8celcius.
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this is very exciting... i knew there was a reason why i liked idi's better haha. and actually seeing this gives me enough confidence to actually shell out the loot for a really good setup. i need to get my jetta back stuff first though...
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I was really bumbed the boost dropped off like it did, it was weird case 20 minutes later on the street it wasn't
Some dynos just can't make enough load on engine to build full boost...
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I was really bumbed the boost dropped off like it did, it was weird case 20 minutes later on the street it wasn't
Some dynos just can't make enough load on engine to build full boost...
Its a brand new mustang 1100, single eddy, it can support 2000whp. We seriously just did the first dyno run on it a few days ago, it can load plenty. I am going to do another dyno this week and hopefully break 200, I am going to ease into it a bit slower and hopefully it won't spike and than drop off.
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What did you ceramic coat in your setup? Piston tops, exhaust valves and ports? Is this with the stock 1.9 cam, HD lifter springs? Did you record what max EGT's hit?
Are you running stock 155 pop preasure or something different? What weight fly wheel did you end up going with?
Could you stay out of the black smoke when you went wide open?
Blaze that trail Dave!!!!! Others will follow!
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Only things I ceramic coated were the manifolds, and turbo. Thats it. I would have coated more but I did not have the time.
The injectors are bone stock.
I hit 1600 degrees a the end of the dyno run.
Stock 1.9 cam, HD springs.
Flywheel is 5lbs
Not much for smoke when I am past 20 psi, under that when I am on it hard it smokes pretty good, but if you don't have your foot in it, it won't smoke.
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Are you going to do any more coating when you pull the head? What kind of effect do you think you will see when you get the cam reground? I thought I read that you were planning that sometime soon.
For your injectors, was that bone stock breaking preasure, or plain jane bone stock 1.9 injectors? I thought you had a set of those dieselicious injectors somewhere in the back of your shop.
Think you can get rid of the smoke, or is that just the way it goes when you are set up for power in the higher rpm / boost range?
I think it will be very interesting to see the changes that occur in your base performance numbers as you add on your performance pieces, ie. cam, tubular manifold etc.
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Meh I dunno about coatings right now, I'll probably hold off until I build a proper engine. Should get an extra 7 or so whp and about 15 ft/lbs with the cam.
They are bone stock 1.6td injectors.
Bigger injectors will come whenever mark makes it out here to bring them to me.
I can definitely decrease some smoke when I set things up a bit more to my liking.
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Here is friend dave on the dyno.
Gittin her lined up.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/vw1303turbo/P1020760.jpg)
Much smoking!
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/vw1303turbo/P1020761.jpg)
Turbo Loving!
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd167/vw1303turbo/3turbos.jpg)
Dave likes boys!
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Screw you Erik!
Thanks for the pics though, you need a better camera, did you or anyone else get any better pictures?
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Any videos of this thing? or did I miss something?
1SlowVW
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I don't think anyone took video, I don't have a video camera, I'll see if anyone else in the shop has one this week, its so loud though, the video would probably sound like crap.
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No vids, yet. That was the first run with this car at the new shop. Now that he has a Dyno IN HOUSE, I'm sure we will see lots of dyno's runs and video's. I spoke to Dave today and they are going to see if they can break 200whp on Monday.
The bottom end is bone stock out of my car, it had about 40K on a rebuild, the only thing Dave added was main studs. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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The bottom end is bone stock out of my car, it had about 40K on a rebuild, the only thing Dave added was main studs. Correct me if I'm wrong.
got girdle?
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The bottom end is stock, with the exception of the arp main studs, thats it, thats all.
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post dyno plot with visible rpms. Looks like this .64 exhaust A/R doesn't lag badly 8) 8) 8)
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I will on monday when I am back at the shop. The run starts at 3000rpm though, peak torque is around 4900, dyno plot ends at 6k rpm.
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:shock:
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What size of ARP head Studs did you use? Stock?
Sorry if it was mentioned but jut read through and don't remember reading it...
This makes me really consider my Franken motor build, vs a TDI... seeming it has to be a DD...
Man, tough choice... :(
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Stock sized ARP main studs.
I like IDI's and TDI's, I really just want to triple stock 1.6td power figures, 68 stock, 204+ my way :P
Next step is tripling an alh tdi, 90 to 270 anyone? :twisted:
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Stock sized ARP main studs.
I like IDI's and TDI's, I really just want to triple stock 1.6td power figures, 68 stock, 204+ my way :P
Next step is tripling an alh tdi, 90 to 270 anyone? :twisted:
what about a 1Z TDI? :)
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Still getting a 14mm pump? Do you think a 14mm might be overkill compared to a 12mm?
AFAIK there is only one 1.9L TDI in NA that dynoed at least 200whp (although that setup is only safe for 180-190whp without overboosting) so this is a nice feat with a TD.. 1.6L even :)
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Hey, tell us about the new shop. Just a new view, or bigger and better?
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I'd be interested to see if jimfoo can reach some nice hp/tq if his AAZ/1Z hybrid works out. A 1.9 m-TDI in a Mk2 would be my dream car.
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Here is the dyno with rpms, did some smoothing as well, the thick area at the end is because I chopped the pedal before ending the run on the computer.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l83/935racer/DaveCrossDyno.jpg)
This does lead me to believe a 14mm pump is over kill for the lower end of 200whp. A 12mm would suit my goals just fine, heck with some different injectors this 9mm is likely good enough. I am not completely decided on my pump situation yet, I want to build an new intake manifold and a new exhaust manifold and add a camshaft first, see where I am at, and go from there.
New shop is bigger and better, 6500 sq/ft, really nice race shop, we'll have a nice customer lounge area with a big plasma tv and surround for people waiting for dyno slips and such. This new shop will house my business and my friends business building custom turbo bimmers. With a dyno, ecu tuning capabilities, machining equipment, fabrication equipment an a paint shop we'll be able to tackle virtually any project.
I'll get some pics of the new shop when we are both a little more moved in.
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Oh yeah also widened the graph a bit as well.
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i think if people on vortex saw this they'd *** bricks. how necessary do you think the 1.9 head is to make this kind of power, seems like the stock intake and smaller turbo is the weak link in the chain on these. how much was the head ported?
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The head was very ported, probably the most time I've spent on a single vw diesel head yet. I think the head is a big part of making this kind of power, the lower compression allows you run the higher boost, as well as more timing, the intake ports are a pretty decent improvement and the intake valves are 1mm larger.
But yes stock manifolds and turbo are certainly a restriction.
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Congrats on the #'s :D , you've certainly made your mark in the IDI scene.
You put down any acceleration times yet ???
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So Dave with this new shop expect to see me sometime this summer wanting a dyno run :D
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So Dave with this new shop expect to see me sometime this summer wanting a dyno run :D
Sounds about right 8)
No accel times yet as my clutch is slipping in 1st-3rd gears under hard acceleration. After the o2a goes in I'll get some 1/4 mile runs and 0-60mph.
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935racer nice work :shock: did You used 1,9 head with 1,9 or 1,6 camshaft?
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I'd be interested to see if jimfoo can reach some nice hp/tq if his AAZ/1Z hybrid works out. A 1.9 m-TDI in a Mk2 would be my dream car.
Unfortunately I'm, not going for big power as my tranny can't handle much over 150, if even that. So you'll have to wait for the next aaz to tdi conversion. :lol:
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935racer nice work :shock: did You used 1,9 head with 1,9 or 1,6 camshaft?
Iirc it's a 1.6 camshaft, as that is all he had around at the time.
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very nice!!!
i've been away from this board for some time, but i definitely was missing some!
Greetz, Benjamin
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please get a video up!! i need to hear this beast on the dyno or open road, please!!!!!!!!!
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please get a video up!! i need to hear this beast on the dyno or open road, please!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE !!! :twisted:
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I had a chance to ride in it, last weekend. It is a MONSTER, we hit 200km/h+ no problem and was still pulling hard when Dave let out, this was only 22psi, as he was having some other boost issues at the normal 28psi that is usually run. It drives around off boost about as quick as a stock TD with boost. Perfectly comfortable for daily driving. I'm sure once Dave gets all moved in and caught up with his orders he will make a video. There are still a few more tweeks that need to be done. Cam, exhaust mani, and probably a different turbo as this one surges bad past 28psi. Dave and I both suspect at least one bent rod as well. This would hold true for approx hp with Andy2's findings when he bent his rods as well.
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Toss in those 1.9 injectors with the merc nozzles :twisted:
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take that rod out and just grab it and bend it back into shape, throw it back in their and turn up the pump! :wink:
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So Dave with this new shop expect to see me sometime this summer wanting a dyno run :D
zagarus, how do you keep all that black smoke off your back end?
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Toss in those 1.9 injectors with the merc nozzles :twisted:
We are still trying to find the custom one off dieselious nozzles, that Jake (fspgtd) had made up, Mark (Malone) bought for the original franken motor, and were lost some where in the old shop. Those with some 1.9 bodies should give it at least 220hp worth of fuel.
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take that rod out and just grab it and bend it back into shape, throw it back in their and turn up the pump! :wink:
LOL I think Dave will just keep rocking it till it blows up or till he builds his 1.7 bottom end. That pump is turned right to the end of its life, to the point it hangs at high rpm!
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If a rod did get bent, are you guys thinking of replacing them with something else? I have not seen many other options for the 1.6.
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I think Dave will run it till it blows, or till he gets together a built 1.7 bottom end. The 1.7 will have custom rods, pistons, the whole shebang.
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That does not bode well for me then. :( My set up is going to be almost the same as he has. I am going with a smaller turbo, the Merc .48. I guess keeping the boost down is going to be a must. I'll sure be interested in what he finds when he opens it up.
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Get your rods polished and heat treated.
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That does not bode well for me then. :( My set up is going to be almost the same as he has. I am going with a smaller turbo, the Merc .48. I guess keeping the boost down is going to be a must. I'll sure be interested in what he finds when he opens it up.
Iirc Dave was racing and it was rpm under full load that killed the rod, like 6000+rpm at full load. That merc .48 is a lot smaller then the t3/t4 60trim .63 that Dave is running. Regardless the rod shot peening and polishing would be a good idea, or finding some h-beam 4340 rods would be ideal. Dave is also running main studs.
I would call Dave before you put it together and get his recommendations. Remember this as well the key to the big numbers that Dave got was mostly from the port work in the head. :wink:
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Yep, I am working with Dave on this. I may end up buying the current intake/exhaust manifolds, DP, and IC plumbing from his setup. I sent him two new 1.9 heads. One for him in trade for him doing the port work on mine. I also have the ARP main studs, head studs and con rod bolts. Pistons should be back from Swain tech this week. I have been looking on line for info on polishing rods. Beside from the links that showed a hot blonde going to work on a guys tool :lol: , the links say it will help. From there, though there appears to be a split. Some said to heat treat, others said to shot peen to return the surface strength. Opinions? Anyone know how much stronger the rod will be? Is it quantifiable?
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chrome plate the rods!
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Hey Duane, manifold is from my friends over at kinetic motorsports. If you are in need of one this manifold will be for sale soon along with this downpipe because I will be going with a tubular manifold.
ahh that would be great! what populare turbos work with that manifold?
i'd like to get one of your intakes also!
send me a P.M. on what your thinking ?
thanks Duane
subsonic
i thought i was in line for his downpipe and exaust manifold?
well either way let me know whats going on here?
Duane
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Brody, finally got the editing done on the first bit of the Open House Video for the new Passenger shop.
And here it is: http://millerperformancecars.com/images/stories/Videos/OpenHouse.wmv :P
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Hey Duane, manifold is from my friends over at kinetic motorsports. If you are in need of one this manifold will be for sale soon along with this downpipe because I will be going with a tubular manifold.
ahh that would be great! what populare turbos work with that manifold?
i'd like to get one of your intakes also!
send me a P.M. on what your thinking ?
thanks Duane
subsonic
i thought i was in line for his downpipe and exaust manifold?
well either way let me know whats going on here?
Duane
PM sent.
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resolution P.M. sent back to subsonic
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i love viggens
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bump, bump, bump it up, more pics/video
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Hey guys
Great to see such a powerful project, i haven't heard anything about
the 12 or 14mm head you want me to install?
200WHP is fantastic too.
let me know what else i can do.
Giles
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The 14mm head is still sitting all wrapped up and pretty on the shelf. I picked it up held it admired it. Dave said he is saving it for the built bottom end.
At this point we are still trying to work out this setup, and I think that it has enough so that with the bigger injectors it will break 200whp. If we could find those dieselious nozzles, it might have enough for 220whp.
Giles in case you didn't read the whole thread, this is the same pump that you built for Malone almost 3 years ago.
*** I updated this on another thread the H-beam rods thread, but I will update it here too ***
Dave's alternator bracket failed taking out the water pump. It got a little warm, so as a precaution he pulled the head, and everything looks good, NO BENT RODS!!! one valve nicked a piston, but wasn't bent, not sure of the cause as it does have HD valve springs in it, and it was only the one, regardless he cleaned it up and put it back together.
Dave has also Machined an anti surge compressor housing for the T4oE that he is running, and is able to get a full 32psi+ without surge now!! Compared to 24psi ish previously. He has to get a heavier spring in the external gate though as it flutters above 32psi. He is trying to get it on the dyno this weekend with 36psi, and a before and after with the other injectors, this should push it well past the 200whp goal. Keeping my fingers crossed, and wishing I could be down there.
On an aside, Giles I have a Cummins VE pump, that will need to be FULLY worked over here this summer. :wink:
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dave ill be down at the coast this sunday and monday. Any chance i can pop by to say hello and see this car??
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I can hear it. Yep, that sounds like some new dyno numbers coming down the road. 210? 215? :twisted:
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dave ill be down at the coast this sunday and monday. Any chance i can pop by to say hello and see this car??
Call him. Or just goto the shop, he is always around. It is the building right behind the greyhound bus station in abby.
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Yes i had read that it was borrowed from Malone.
since then i have made even better pumps!!
when you do send his pump in, pls leave all the settings alone
so i can run it on the Test Stand and measure what fuel you're
running to rach that magic 200HP!
look forward to new projects too.
We're currently working on some TDI nozzles that will flow way more
fuel and help the M-TDI projects that allot of people are asking for.
Devor is trying to run a big turbo on his and we're running out of fuel
with his stock and modded injectors.
i'll keep everyone up to date.
Giles
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Kind of a thread jack, but on the same line of thought and interest.
Giles,
I am a few months behind Dave right now on my Franken build. They are going to be very similar. He is using Malones old 9mm pump. I also have one of your 9mm pumps that was done less than a year ago. IIRC you told me mine was twice the normal fuel and no rpm cut off. Did I remember that correctly? Would any of your improvements be in this newer pump? Without giving it up, could you explain what some of these improvements might be, and how they would come into play on the build?
I will be following in Daves tire marks, so I am interested in any differences that may effect end results.
Thanks, Jim
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I just got off the phone with Dave. He put it on the rollers and even with 30psi + he couldn't do any more then the 193whp. He is officially out of fuel.
He was going to try subsonic's 1.9 injectors, with the merc nozzles, but forgot the 1.9 injector lines at home so he went and got those only to realize he was out of heat shields. He is going to try to round some up and put it on the rollers again this afternoon.
The only good thing about it to this point is that the FINALLY got some video today!!! Now we just have to wait for Brody to get it up.
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dave ill be down at the coast this sunday and monday. Any chance i can pop by to say hello and see this car??
Thomas, just give a call, I'll be here most of today, don't know how late, maybe till 6, maybe till midnight, and I'll be around all day tomorrow, come by and we'll throw your jetta on the rollers, I'll take you for a rip in the death trap as well :twisted:
Trying to dig up some heatshields for a dyno with subsonics injectors for later today, so far not looking good, might have to wait for monday.
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Yes i had read that it was borrowed from Malone.
since then i have made even better pumps!!
when you do send his pump in, pls leave all the settings alone
so i can run it on the Test Stand and measure what fuel you're
running to rach that magic 200HP!
look forward to new projects too.
We're currently working on some TDI nozzles that will flow way more
fuel and help the M-TDI projects that allot of people are asking for.
Devor is trying to run a big turbo on his and we're running out of fuel
with his stock and modded injectors.
i'll keep everyone up to date.
Giles
Yeah I'll have to send this pump out soon I guess, I am out of fuel. Hopefully you get Davors fueling delt with, I have been consulting that project for quite some time now!
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I really hope they help out Dave. They must put out more fuel than stock. Christ, they are for a 3.0 liter! Bummer about the 1.9 lines and heat shields :( I will be checking for updates all throughout the day on Monday. Give it hell.
Jim
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very nice result so far :shock:
the 193whp is with a 12mm and its feuled out, omg :shock: now its time for the 14mm?
ow, did it smoke on/offboost? what EGT's was it running?
Greetz, Benjamin
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i thought it was with a 9mm?
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i thought it was with a 9mm?
yea i thought Dave didn't install the 12mm yet?
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very nice result so far :shock:
the 193whp is with a 12mm and its feuled out, omg :shock: now its time for the 14mm?
ow, did it smoke on/offboost? what EGT's was it running?
Greetz, Benjamin
It is a 9mm, one of the original Giles pumps from back in the day. I think/hope Giles has a few more tricks up his sleeve now for coaxing even more out of the 9mm pumps. I hope that we can get at least 200 - 215 out of the 9mm. I know I have seen guys make 440whp+ out of 12mm pumps (no not on vw's)
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with out knowing what the fuel pin looks like , would it make a difference if he either removed the fuel pin , or removed the spring holding the fuel pin up ......
basicly something similar to the removing the afc lever that many of the cummins guys are doing for tractor pulls .
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Whooaaa! so much feul from only a 9mm, thats crazy Giles! :D :shock: 8)
Greetz, Benjamin
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Just thinking, if the pump truely has hit it's max point of fuel delivery, nothing will make it deliver more unless Giles mods it further. I think the bigger nozzles and different injectors will definetly have a impact though.
They will be able to put out a greater amount of fuel earlier in the run. I think the dyno will show a steeper/ faster rise in hp. I do not know if they will produce greater hp though.
I think, again if the pump is truely maxed out, that besides the bigger nozzles, the next gains are going to come from increased efficiencies.
The tubular manifold will help flow, and turbo spool. Ceramic coating the pistons and the exhaust ports in the head will help the efficiency of the engine. Perhaps these things will help the burn to be more complete and eeek out that little extra bit of fuel that may not be completely burning.
The only other thing I can think of would be to try and lighten some of the rotating mass. That and pehaps the performance cam.
Look forward to seeing the dyno run results today.
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i wanna see what it does in the quarter this car should be able to do 13s. with 12s in sight, very encouraging to say the least.
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Just got 30 new injector heat shields, should be on the dyno in 2-3 hours. Will we break 200? :twisted:
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Epic fail.
Lost 12 whp
I dyno'd 195whp for my base line run today, new injectors maxed me out at 183whp. :evil:
:roll:
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WTF! :? How can stock nozzles put out more than these? Any idea's ?
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Hey what nozzles did you install in the other injectors?
send me a PM if you want
Giles
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Is the spray pattern different on the Merc nozzles? Maybe they don't promote the same swirl in a VW. Or the timing changed as a result of them?
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Video:
http://millerperformancecars.com/car-videos/passenger-performance-jetta.html
Click and save as.
The ones I just put on that made less power were 1.9 injectors with mercedes 300d nozzles, the ones that made 195 (smoothed graph) were stock 1.6td.
The 1.9 injectors do seem to give more fuel, I took it for a drive and my revs were hanging, but but it doesn't pull as hard as the 1.6 nozzles.
What are we going to do to get more fuel Giles? I need way more fuel from 5500 and up.
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love the video!!! sounds like a jet engine when that thing gets going 8)
sucks for the drop in whp though :(
i seem to recall reading about the merc nozzles being designed for a different type of pre-chamber, maybe that has something to do with it? fine for the low end, but lacking on the top end?
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Hey what nozzles did you install in the other injectors?
send me a PM if you want
Giles
DNO SD261 0 434 250 128
These were installed in AAZ 1.9 dual spring injector bodies. Pop preasure was set at 155bar. The first time they have been run since being rebuilt was when Dave installed them for the dyno run. Nozzles were brand new. Injectors rebuilt by reputable injection shop.
The dual springs were designed to quite the engine down a little right? I think they let a little fuel through right before the main injection. I don't know if this has anything to do with it.
I think the AAZ injectors were also set at a different pop preasure than the 1.6TD injectors. Again, not sure if this has any effect on the results.
Would timing need to be changed to compensate for the different injection rate of the dual springs?
I guess if none of the above could be considered factors, you could try swapping the nozzles into the single spring 1.6 bodies. Process of elimination.
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After watching that vid I am left speechless, the sound is amazing.
I am also curious now as to what effect the merc nozzles would have in the 1.6 body.
Either way you guys should be very pumped(no pun intended), your a real inspiration to us diesel guys who are just at the bottom of the learning curve.
1SlowVW
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After watching that vid I am left speechless, the sound is amazing.
I am also curious now as to what effect the merc nozzles would have in the 1.6 body.
Either way you guys should be very pumped(no pun intended), your a real inspiration to us diesel guys who are just at the bottom of the learning curve.
1SlowVW
I had the same wondering, the 1.6 nozzles in the 1.9 bodies, and the merc's in the 1.6 bodies. Just for more knowledge.
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That video is great.
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What do you think Giles, about the difference in the injector bodies?
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please try the merc nozzles on 1.6 bodies as i have done the same and am concerned that they didnt give any gains because my turbo cant give more than 1.6 bar...
did you acheived the same pressure?
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I had the same wondering, the 1.6 nozzles in the 1.9 bodies, and the merc's in the 1.6 bodies. Just for more knowledge.
I was thinking exactly the same :D
Greetz, Benjamin
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I just got off the phone with Giles. He also suggested swapping the nozzles into the 1.6 bodies for a run.
As a additional note, he thought there might be the possibility that the 1.9 dual spring injectors have the potential, if performance tuned correctly, to deliver more power.
Jim
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muhahaha!
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Hello,
still waiting for 200 amazing whp from a 1.6td, respect for your reached 19x whp until yet. I think the project here is "state of the art" for IDI tuning in the moment.
In germany there is a rally race rabbit, who runs with vegetable oil.
They run in the last and in this year a 1.9 tdi engine, but before used first a 1.6 and then a 1.9 idi engine for serveral years.
They try a lot to get as much power as possible, but i thing they did not reached 200hp with the idi engines. Last step idi was with gasser camshaft and therefore drill holes in the pistons for having enough space for the valve.
Anyhow, there is a nozzle expert, specialy for using vegetable oil, but also for normal diesel. I planed to build up a race 1.9 aaz rabit and speak with the nozzle guy about best nozzle design for reached something around 200 whp. He told me that test have shown, best design for the vw idi engine are DN0SD297 injectors in KCA30S36/4DS nozzles with around 175 bar POP pressure. POP pressure must increase above 155bar, due to the higher combustion pressure due to the higher boost level. I personaly think, at your boost level (approx 2.2 bar) your need even more than 175 bar POP pressure. I run my rabbit (1.6 in the moment) with 180 bar POP pressure and thing it is a little bit to high for my boost level 1,2 bar, but should fit perfect with your boost level. They nozzle guy also tells me, that they have test bigger injectors with no benefit. Big is not even nice, specialy for the nozzles everything had to be fit good together.
When i understand it correct, you have reached 193 whp with approx 1.8 bar and know reached 195 bar with 2.2 bar boost. If that is correct, you are "under fueled" in any case. Only burned fuel can make power in a idi engine, not the boost intake air. But i am sure you know that better than i do.
For me it is amazing, that you get even this power by using a Ø9mm pump. But also be sure, that the camplate has be replaced. For my project i will used a camplate from a AFN DI engine with 3,4 mm lift.
Also the pump has to be mod at the fly weights and/or the regulator spring. I will also mod the "timing change" piston lift for reached speed above 5400 rpm, stock upper limit.
Came back to the nozzles, in my knowledge the dual spring nozzles also only for reduce burning noise not for make more power. Personaly i think it is a poor design for our goals. The mention injectors also fine for cold start, even if you have reduce the compressing level.
Best Regards and good luck for 2xx whp, i am still impressed for knowing even it is possible with a 1.6 engine.
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935racer ;
how much fuel presure are you running into your ip ?
i'm assuming your using a lift pump of sorts .
have you thought about boosting the fuel presure into the ip to help fuel the engine better when it's wound out ?
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935racer ;
how much fuel presure are you running into your ip ?
i'm assuming your using a lift pump of sorts .
have you thought about boosting the fuel presure into the ip to help fuel the engine better when it's wound out ?
Internal feul pressure will control the dynamic timing advance, so this should be +-stock, so you may not take a high pressure liftpump.
Greetz, Benjamin
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where is the torque? i would have thought that this thing would have made more torque
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where is the torque? i would have thought that this thing would have made more torque
It's set up to come on hard in the upper rpm range. 4000 up to redline.
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What do you think the effect of the 2 stage injection had, or has on timing?
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I would think that with the change to higher flowing nozzles, you were pumping more fuel into the engine and out of the pump. That increased pumping out of the pump lowered the internal pressure and retarded the pump timing. A little tap, tap on the pressure regulator and 200+ HP is yours. :D
Andrew
So what's the OE pump setting and what would you think it needs to be at?
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So what's the OE pump setting and what would you think it needs to be at?
43.5 Psi at 1000 engine RPMs-75.4 psi at 2,000 RPMs
With regard to what it needs to be, I don't know. Those specs above would be a standard pump without load. I don't know how significant the crease in pressure would be with higher flowing injectors. I am just making what I think is a good guess. I'd give it a little tap and check to see what happens. :wink:
Andrew
thats intrested libbybapa, alltough, i dont know if this is right, or not right, sidce i dont understand how the pressure regulator works.
about the right specs, i know the numbers are stated by hanger, but its unique for every pump, the right numbers you can find in the program from bosch tintin have.
Greetz, Benjamin
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Woaw!! It's really impressive :wink:
But why you do not use a smaller turbo or big VNT one, I think you can past the 200HP in the more efficient 3500-4500 engine rpm range?
Andrew, the primary pump have enough flow to maintain the pressure inside the pump even with high IQ, It's more the fact that when you ask more fueling from the pump, the effort on the plunger is greater and the force counter act on the timing system and reduce or limit the timing.
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But I would think the 2 stage injectors with their higher secondary pressure would prolong injection slightly. Probably not the best thing for high rpm.
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Yes, if you put bigger nozzle on stock IDI 1.6 or 1.9, you can ear the engine more noisy.
Higher breaking pressure have the same counter force effect on the timing, but It's minimal.
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The two-stagers, from the factory, are set to break at 150 bar... a bit lower actually than the 1.6 style.
Evidently there's a small break (so-called "pre-burn") before that but it wasn't very evident on the injectors I poptested... however, she's wide open at 150 bar for sure.
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Hello,
still waiting for 200 amazing whp from a 1.6td, respect for your reached 19x whp until yet. I think the project here is "state of the art" for IDI tuning in the moment.
In germany there is a rally race rabbit, who runs with vegetable oil.
They run in the last and in this year a 1.9 tdi engine, but before used first a 1.6 and then a 1.9 idi engine for serveral years.
They try a lot to get as much power as possible, but i thing they did not reached 200hp with the idi engines. Last step idi was with gasser camshaft and therefore drill holes in the pistons for having enough space for the valve.
Anyhow, there is a nozzle expert, specialy for using vegetable oil, but also for normal diesel. I planed to build up a race 1.9 aaz rabit and speak with the nozzle guy about best nozzle design for reached something around 200 whp. He told me that test have shown, best design for the vw idi engine are DN0SD297 injectors in KCA30S36/4DS nozzles with around 175 bar POP pressure. POP pressure must increase above 155bar, due to the higher combustion pressure due to the higher boost level. I personaly think, at your boost level (approx 2.2 bar) your need even more than 175 bar POP pressure. I run my rabbit (1.6 in the moment) with 180 bar POP pressure and thing it is a little bit to high for my boost level 1,2 bar, but should fit perfect with your boost level. They nozzle guy also tells me, that they have test bigger injectors with no benefit. Big is not even nice, specialy for the nozzles everything had to be fit good together.
When i understand it correct, you have reached 193 whp with approx 1.8 bar and know reached 195 bar with 2.2 bar boost. If that is correct, you are "under fueled" in any case. Only burned fuel can make power in a idi engine, not the boost intake air. But i am sure you know that better than i do.
For me it is amazing, that you get even this power by using a Ø9mm pump. But also be sure, that the camplate has be replaced. For my project i will used a camplate from a AFN DI engine with 3,4 mm lift.
Also the pump has to be mod at the fly weights and/or the regulator spring. I will also mod the "timing change" piston lift for reached speed above 5400 rpm, stock upper limit.
Came back to the nozzles, in my knowledge the dual spring nozzles also only for reduce burning noise not for make more power. Personaly i think it is a poor design for our goals. The mention injectors also fine for cold start, even if you have reduce the compressing level.
Best Regards and good luck for 2xx whp, i am still impressed for knowing even it is possible with a 1.6 engine.
Is there a rule of thumb for boost versus pop pressure. If 155 bar is for stock boost, what pop pressure would be appropriate for 1.8 bar boost?
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Hello,
just to came back to the dual spring nozzles, by keeping in mind which time we have at 6000rpm to inject and burn the fuel, for produce power from the burning and not only burn the turbo, in my mind the dual spring injectors are not the one we wand. (time compl. approx 0,005s, burn delay approx 0,001s )
@ TinTin,
i am sure that there is no possibility to get 200hp from a 1.6 idi engine at lower speed than 5500rpm. Even it were possible, the mechanical stress will increase and reduce reliable of the power train.
@saurkraut
there is no rule to calculate it easy.
I have make a little design program for idi engine with excel, where i can calculate the combustion pressure durin the injection.
At stock and 5500rpm with 0.8 bar boost, it will be approx 120 bar.
At 6000 rpm with 1.8 bar boost and good intercooling, it will be approx 183 bar. So to have the same pressure drop over the injector, the pop pressure should be adjusted to (155+63) approx 220bar. But for staying able to inject the neccesary amount of fuel, i think the 220bar will be to high, so in my feeling approx 180 bar pop pressure should be a good value.
Best Regards
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Hello,
just to came back to the dual spring nozzles, by keeping in mind which time we have at 6000rpm to inject and burn the fuel, for produce power from the burning and not only burn the turbo, in my mind the dual spring injectors are not the one we wand. (time compl. approx 0,005s, burn delay approx 0,001s )
@ TinTin,
i am sure that there is no possibility to get 200hp from a 1.6 idi engine at lower speed than 5500rpm. Even it were possible, the mechanical stress will increase and reduce reliable of the power train.
@saurkraut
there is no rule to calculate it easy.
I have make a little design program for idi engine with excel, where i can calculate the combustion pressure durin the injection.
At stock and 5500rpm with 0.8 bar boost, it will be approx 120 bar.
At 6000 rpm with 1.8 bar boost and good intercooling, it will be approx 183 bar. So to have the same pressure drop over the injector, the pop pressure should be adjusted to (155+63) approx 220bar. But for staying able to inject the neccesary amount of fuel, i think the 220bar will be to high, so in my feeling approx 180 bar pop pressure should be a good value.
Best Regards
There is actualy more than you think Alleslowbuged, there do run a vw 1.6 with 254whp and peak power around 4000rpm. The stress is lower on the internals when the powerpeak is lower in rpm, alltough, you have right if you mean the torque should be higher if it spooled up faster.
alltough 200whp is possible with vnt, the bad thing about VNT is the backpressure what eats a lot of power, a ballbearing should be the best solution, but also the most expensive, well done you are almost making 200whp, cuz its easy to say, but who realy did it, till now i didnt... i think there are several turbos tried wich where just to lagy.
take also in mind, higher pop pressure means also more power on the shaft, what is no problem for a 9mm, but it is a problem for 12mm, another thing to think about is, higher pop pressure means you reduce the power cuz making more pressure takes more power...
My friend have increased the pop pressure, and he say the difrence is the turbo spools better, and reduced smoke when its spooling up, at peakpower its all about the same.
Greetz, Benjamin
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i am sure that there is no possibility to get 200hp from a 1.6 idi engine at lower speed than 5500rpm. Even it were possible, the mechanical stress will increase and reduce reliable of the power train.
My engine peaks at 223hp@~4700. Thatīs with vnt and backpressure is lower than boost. 1,6 mech head and stock 1,6 injectors.
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Hello,
@Benjamin and MJF
sorry for my unknowledge, i am really impressed to hear that here are serveral 1.6 VW idi engine's with more than 200 whp, even at 4000 or which speed ever. Respect for your build up.
Can i see somewhere more details of your engines? As mention before i
still in the bulid up phase of a 1.9 aaz and will be very happy to see what is necessary to get these high hp level.
Best regards
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My build is several times here in forum. Best I know from unopened aaz (internally stock) is ~220hp/450nm. Donīt know what turbo is in that aaz. Donīt know exact specs for that 254hp/513nm 1.6 either, but Iīve seen the dynosheet...
EDIT: Found the dynosheet (http://www.volksforum.com/albums/files/4/0/9/7/tehokyr_original.jpg) for aaz
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can you post it?
would like to see a 1.6 do all that torque :twisted:
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Nope, owner doesnīt want to show it in internet (Iīve asked)
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My engine peaks at 223hp@~4700. Thatīs with vnt and backpressure is lower than boost. 1,6 mech head and stock 1,6 injectors.
I ever read you can flow the vanes, did you done some improvements to the interal turbo, or is it just rotated and another vnt controller on?
Greetz, Benjamin
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I ever read you can flow the vanes, did you done some improvements to the interal turbo, or is it just rotated and another vnt controller on?
Greetz, Benjamin
Stock turbo, no internal mods. I swapped the MB electronic control to single boost can. Not the best way, but works ok in this case.
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MJF your using a vnt 25?? at __psi with 42.5mm inducer?? and Dave's monster turbo is running a 54mm inducer at 35psi.Thats a huge difference I know my 1.9 needs a bigger compresor than 42.5 to make anything over 30 psi/200hp.My primary turbo will have either a 52 or 54mm inducer and my small turbo has a 42.5mm which similar flow to a vnt25 compressor.
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MJF your using a vnt 25?? at __psi with 42.5mm inducer?? and Dave's monster turbo is running a 54mm inducer at 35psi.Thats a huge difference I know my 1.9 needs a bigger compresor than 42.5 to make anything over 30 psi/200hp.My primary turbo will have either a 52 or 54mm inducer and my small turbo has a 42.5mm which similar flow to a vnt25 compressor.
Itīs GT2359V, ~47mm inducer with ~35psi boost. I know Iīm pushing the turbo way over limits, but the engine needs boost to make power :?
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I see,Well thats sounds about right.What were you torque #'s ?
What cam plate are you using Dave?I think a 1.6 cam plate with 12 or 14mm head will work better for 5500 +rpm.The extra 1mm lift with the 1.9 camplate may not be neccesary with the bigger head.
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Hey Dave
I have proven on my Test Stand that if you feed the injection pump with
more than a positive feed then it will increase the dynamic flow of the pump
if you decrease you static timing a bit to compensate for the increased
internal pressure which will give you more advance earlier on.
what static timing do you have it set at now?
hope this helps you get over 200
try 15 psi first
Giles
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Hey Dave
I have proven on my Test Stand that if you feed the injection pump with
more than a positive feed then it will increase the dynamic flow of the pump
if you decrease you static timing a bit to compensate for the increased
internal pressure which will give you more advance earlier on.
what static timing do you have it set at now?
hope this helps you get over 200
try 15 psi first
Giles
are you talking about feeding 15 psi fuel pressure into the injection pump ?
i'm just waking up if this seems very obvious .
something else i was wondering , at high rpm's does the pump start to cavitate ? if so , it might be another cause for running out of fuel .
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hi guys
no the internal 4 vane feed pump inside the VE is very strong and will
not cavitate.
yes if you feed your pump (any pump) with more inlet pressure
it will to a certain extent give you more output.
Giles
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Giles, could you give some insight into the questions about the 1.9 dual spring injector bodies and the pre injection that happens before the main injection? What if any effect do you think this would have on this particular application.
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Yes i had read that it was borrowed from Malone.
since then i have made even better pumps!!
when you do send his pump in, pls leave all the settings alone
so i can run it on the Test Stand and measure what fuel you're
running to rach that magic 200HP!
look forward to new projects too.
We're currently working on some TDI nozzles that will flow way more
fuel and help the M-TDI projects that allot of people are asking for.
Devor is trying to run a big turbo on his and we're running out of fuel
with his stock and modded injectors.
i'll keep everyone up to date.
Giles
Woah! Any chance these will be a little cheaper than KermaTDI's R520 7-hole nozzles? Plus, Kerma won't sell them to you unless you have Kerma's tuning. :? (which personally I think is shady)
Brendan
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I see,Well thats sounds about right.What were you torque #'s ?
Didnīt get torque readings from dyno, but itīs around 350nm.
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[tīs GT2359V, ~47mm inducer with ~35psi boost. I know Iīm pushing the turbo way over limits, but the engine needs boost to make power :?
At what point do we start to worry about bending rods?
30 psi?
35 psi?
40 psi?
Anyone? I actually really need to know this one, I'm also very curious as Dave's engine is obviously very capable of high boost #'s and I think I remember reading he has a stock bottom end.
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Itīs the low end torque that bends rods...
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Itīs the low end torque that bends rods...
Ok so..??
What does that mean? Build a fresh engine and stuff 25psi in there are we wadding up rods?
The reason I ask besides my curiousity in reguards to Daves engine.
My current set up will pull good (no tach yet) while in 3rd to 20 psi where it dies off a bit till 25 psi the it takes right off again and will touch 38psi on the top end :shock:
I dont hold it there btw, hits it for a sec and that's it.
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It means that youīll more likely bend rods with small turbo. The lower rpm torque peaks, harder it is for rods. Itīs not the amount of boost itself.
Language barrier starts to kick, maybe someone understand and translate it to english :lol:
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It means that youīll more likely bend rods with small turbo. The lower rpm torque peaks, harder it is for rods. Itīs not the amount of boost itself.
Language barrier starts to kick, maybe someone understand and translate it to english :lol:
I'm running a k24 so I dont get what I would consider "Good Boost" until 15+ psi.
It doesn't help I'm @ 4500' elevation either.
So I dont think i need to worry about low end torque in my situation?
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i believe its the peak cylinder pressure that bends the rods, so unless you're really making power then 25psi should be fine.
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i believe its the peak cylinder pressure that bends the rods, so unless you're really making power then 25psi should be fine.
Has to be close to 150 now. 10mm pump, huge injectors, only porting was port matching, 3" Turbo back.
Hmmm.
I'm done hijacking Dave's thread, I was just trying to figure out how his bottom end was going to hold up under high boost then started comparing his engine to mine so the questions ensued..
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It means that youīll more likely bend rods with small turbo. The lower rpm torque peaks, harder it is for rods. Itīs not the amount of boost itself.
Language barrier starts to kick, maybe someone understand and translate it to english :lol:
rods dont like power/torque + high revs, the lower the revs, the more the rods like it.
aarghhh, i have the same problem mate, i'm running out of words :lol:
Greetz, Benjamin
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It means that youīll more likely bend rods with small turbo. The lower rpm torque peaks, harder it is for rods. Itīs not the amount of boost itself.
Language barrier starts to kick, maybe someone understand and translate it to english :lol:
rods dont like power/torque + high revs, the lower the revs, the more the rods like it.
aarghhh, i have the same problem mate, i'm running out of words :lol:
Greetz, Benjamin
I understand it different way :) rods don't like high torque at low revs - same torque at higher revs is safer for rods... and more revs with same torque is more power 8)
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true, i say the theory is vica versa, well, thats what i learned from gasoline engine's with high power (not talking about torque)
offopic: offtopic: @Zapral: do they make custom forged billed rods/pistons in Poland for nice prices?
Greetz, Benjamin
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There are two different but equally bad force's that are being discussed here.
1. Low rev's and high cylinder pressures (high torque) can cause rods to bend, and hg leaks.
2. High rev's can get to the point where the rod strech's and either makes contact with a valve, or breaks from stress, or if the rod bolts are the first to give way it will spin a bearing.
I prefer to spin these engines faster (to a point), as the faster it is spun the more work is done (hp = work/torque) vs higher cylinder pressures. When you consider that gassers of this size typically have red lines of 7000rpm+ I don't think that 6000rpm is that much to ask for.
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I see,Well thats sounds about right.What were you torque #'s ?
What cam plate are you using Dave?I think a 1.6 cam plate with 12 or 14mm head will work better for 5500 +rpm.The extra 1mm lift with the 1.9 camplate may not be neccesary with the bigger head.
I agree, currently have a 1.9td camplate.
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Hey Dave
I have proven on my Test Stand that if you feed the injection pump with
more than a positive feed then it will increase the dynamic flow of the pump
if you decrease you static timing a bit to compensate for the increased
internal pressure which will give you more advance earlier on.
what static timing do you have it set at now?
hope this helps you get over 200
try 15 psi first
Giles
Giles, I am feeding the pump with 8psi currently, and I think about 30gph.
I am running 1.33mm static timing right now, its a lot but its the only way to get a cold start out of this thing, I actually could use a little more advance for cold start ups right now.
You can really hear that this is a lot of advance though at around 4000rpms, after that it sounds more normal.
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[tīs GT2359V, ~47mm inducer with ~35psi boost. I know Iīm pushing the turbo way over limits, but the engine needs boost to make power :?
At what point do we start to worry about bending rods?
30 psi?
35 psi?
40 psi?
Anyone? I actually really need to know this one, I'm also very curious as Dave's engine is obviously very capable of high boost #'s and I think I remember reading he has a stock bottom end.
I've run 40 psi no bent rods. I'd be running 40 psi daily right now but I don't have enough fuel for that kind of boost with this big of turbo.
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When are you going to lead the attack again? 200hp can't hold the hill forever :twisted:
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Well I may have an answer on the larger injectors loosing power. After doing some research on 1stgen cummins (they use the same VE pump) and a few guys have lost power on going to big injectors without enough pressure, as they speculate that there is not enough atomization with the big holes and stock pressure. To the point where 6X.016 sticks made 30hp more then 6x.018sticks, with a stock 12mm pump.
Sound familiar??
A mod that is becoming common thing to do in the cummins VE world is to put 50psi+ inlet pressure into the pump, but to run this you need a retaining snap ring on the front seal of the pump or it will just pop out. This helps with fuel, timing and keeping the 14mm head cool and lubricated enough to survive.
So with all of that being said I think the bigger nozzles need a higher popping pressure and we should try feeding 25psi + into the IP.
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Well I may have an answer on the larger injectors loosing power. After doing some research on 1stgen cummins (they use the same VE pump) and a few guys have lost power on going to big injectors without enough pressure, as they speculate that there is not enough atomization with the big holes and stock pressure. To the point where 6X.016 sticks made 30hp more then 6x.018sticks, with a stock 12mm pump.
Sound familiar??
A mod that is becoming common thing to do in the cummins VE world is to put 50psi+ inlet pressure into the pump, but to run this you need a retaining snap ring on the front seal of the pump or it will just pop out. This helps with fuel, timing and keeping the 14mm head cool and lubricated enough to survive.
So with all of that being said I think the bigger nozzles need a higher popping pressure and we should try feeding 25psi + into the IP.
Hey Dave
I have proven on my Test Stand that if you feed the injection pump with
more than a positive feed then it will increase the dynamic flow of the pump
if you decrease you static timing a bit to compensate for the increased
internal pressure which will give you more advance earlier on.
what static timing do you have it set at now?
hope this helps you get over 200
try 15 psi first
Giles
That's R + D right there!
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Sound familiar??
A mod that is becoming common thing to do in the cummins VE world is to put 50psi+ inlet pressure into the pump, but to run this you need a retaining snap ring on the front seal of the pump or it will just pop out. This helps with fuel, timing and keeping the 14mm head cool and lubricated enough to survive.
So with all of that being said I think the bigger nozzles need a higher popping pressure and we should try feeding 25psi + into the IP.
Hmm, maybe I WONT get rid of my CIS fuel pump when I swap to diesel- just slap a regulator on there and dial it in! This snap ring, does the front sea recess have a groove in there for a snap ring or would it need to be machined?
Brendan
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I never tested but I do not see what are the difference to fill the pump with 10psi or 50 psi, I think that 10psi it is sufficient and 50psi does not change anything, put aside to push 50psi on the front of the timing piston to harm its movement.....
Why that takes a retaining clip for the front seal, a VE pump can go up until 150psi without problem?
I guess that the lower result it's caused by a higher open.. pressure of the injector, AAZ 150/200B (less fuel) maxed with improper injection angle of the merc nozzle.......would be necessary to measure the IQ and timing piston travel with the two injector with the same pump adjustment.
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BUMP
Anything new with the Franken motor?
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Well I talked to Dave on Thursday, as he had to ship some things up to me. Right now he has 16 tdi downpipes, in front of him, 2 audi 5cyl manifolds, and a 9sec roll cage for a honda. All of which need to be done by the end of April. So as of right now, the only thing he has done to the Jetta, is drive it from work to home and back. He is really coming into his busy time with race season just starting. If I had to venture a guess, the jetta will not see any love for a couple month's till the race season starts to wind down.
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pretty much every garage is this way even just the normal ones... i dunno why since they can work on your car in the winter too but for some reason people get *** done in the spring haha
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I am feeding the pump with 8psi currently, and I think about 30gph.
Hi Dave, Just wondering what type of lift pump you're running?
Thanks,
Fionn.
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Update:
I talked with Dave this morning...
He was cruising at about 80km/h on his way into the shop, and heard a clunk and a rattle, made some other bad noises. Dave stopped and took a look, but nothing could be seen from the side of the road, so he continued to work, but obviously well underpowered. When he got to the shop he pulled the injectors they all seemed to be ok, at which point he did a compression test and there was 0 compression in cylinder #3. His suspicion is a dropped valve, and possibly a hole in the piston.
At this point he has no plans to repair it. He will probably be parting out this setup. Getting a basic daily driver, and starting work on his Caddy. I will keep you updated as I hear more.
Also after what has felt like YEARS of waiting Dave's Site is back up.
www.passengerdiesel.com
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thats disappointing...
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From a technical aspect, I hope there is a autopsy. I am very interested in the cause of death. How can it be avoided in the future. Even though I will not be running mine as hard as Dave's beast, if there is a weakness discovered, I would like to eliminate it.
It was just last week that Dave said
"I don't care if I blow oil all over the dyno room walls." :shock:
Build it bigger faster and stronger next time :twisted:
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Too bad to hear :( Iīd also like to know what failed...
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Video:
http://millerperformancecars.com/car-videos/passenger-performance-jetta.html
Why linkey no work anymore?
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Video:
http://millerperformancecars.com/car-videos/passenger-performance-jetta.html
Why linkey no work anymore?
Try this one.
http://www.passengerdiesel.com/
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Any progress?
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I was at dave's shop on the first weekend in may for the dyno day, and it was still parked exactly where he put it when it died. Too this point he has been to busy to even pop the hood, and I would suspect with race season in full swing, that unless I take it upon myself to do when I'm back down there at the end of May, nothing will happen with it until September / October area.
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Well I had a chance to go back down to Dave's shop a couple week's back to help a friend with another project.
Dave finally had a chance to pull off the head and see what caused the damage...
Well after that much suspense it appears that the injector was worn and leaking, to the point were it eventually was sticking open, causing enough heat to melt out the pre cup and have it fall into the piston, and then that smashing the motor.
So after all of that it was just a regular maintenance item that killed the motor, and nothing to do with the nearly 200whp that it was pushing.
Dave has since bought a benz wagen, and I believe that the jetta has gone to the JY. Yes he did pull off anything of value. He has no plans to ever rebuild that motor, the next vw project that he has is his caddy, and I don't even think he knows what he is going to run for a motor in that.
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Is there a pic? Can't see it if there is. I'd like to see it.
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does anyone still have these videos?
Video:
http://millerperformancecars.com/car-videos/passenger-performance-jetta.html
Click and save as.
The ones I just put on that made less power were 1.9 injectors with mercedes 300d nozzles, the ones that made 195 (smoothed graph) were stock 1.6td.
The 1.9 injectors do seem to give more fuel, I took it for a drive and my revs were hanging, but but it doesn't pull as hard as the 1.6 nozzles.
What are we going to do to get more fuel Giles? I need way more fuel from 5500 and up.
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Is that the dyno run? If so you can still view it at this link:
http://www.automotive.passengerindustries.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6:the-300-dollar-sleeper&catid=4:videos&Itemid=8
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I know Dave has posted this in another thread, but I thought I would try to keep this one all together. This is his Dyno chart from his dyno pull today. It has zero correction factor, and zero smoothing. Dave also clicked on the wrong thing before he pushed print so it doesn't have rpm, but now that He is moving to this shop and will have a dyno full time, I'm sure we will see not only some more HP, but a smoother graph, with RPM. Also he was having trouble maintaining boost on the dyno, it would peak at 28psi, and quickly fall back to 22psi. Anyway enough blabing here it is. Edit: It is a brand new Mustang Dyno
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b382/dvst8r/Davejetta020208.jpg)
Hoping for a 200+ in the very near future. :wink:
Just bumping the thread for those interested.
You guys really need to learn to search.
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Looking back I wonder if with the gt2056 and awic if Malone had already reached close to the same hp. 2056 is capable of it on paper