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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: dillenger1 on December 12, 2007, 11:26:53 am
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I just want to confirm.Can you go to a vw dealer and have them install the oil squirters that come in a td in an na block?If so ,can i do it myself.My father(4bta4me)is very mechanically inclined,more so then me i mean.WE CAN DO ANYTHING!!!lol
ben
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I highly doubt a dealer would do that for you. You need to make certain that the oil squirter is shooting the right spot on the piston or it will be much less effective.
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You also need a rather large notch in your piston skirts.
A better investment woud be a full 2.5" or 3" exhauste system. biggest EGT dropper you can do.
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I just want to confirm.Can you go to a vw dealer and have them install the oil squirters that come in a td in an na block?If so ,can i do it myself.My father(4bta4me)is very mechanically inclined,more so then me i mean.WE CAN DO ANYTHING!!!lol
ben
well the answer to that question is yes. you can. but as stated above you need the TD pistons (notched otherwise the pistons will karate chop your oil squirters and do some nice damage) and i'm not sure if the non turbo oil pumps dish out enough PSI as the turbo oil pumps. they do 'steal' quite a bit of oil pressure and that must be accounted for.
as for where to drill, i'm not sure. probably having a TD block around would be very handy, but then again, why wouldn't you use that one? :lol:
a larger downpipe would be a really good idea in conjunction with the oil squirters, or even just on its own. do you have/know where to get oil squirters for a good price??? i thought they were expensive.
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No i dont know for sure ,just kicking around ideas .I was thinking a vw dealer,but i guess i should call
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Part # 068 103 157 D [Oil Spray Jet] Fits: MF,RA, SB,JR,1V
if it helps any... and it seems like it lists the price for around $10? Not too sure what the currency is though
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See the flat spots in the block next to the cylinder with 2 holes in it? One is a bolt hole that holds down the squirter. The other is drilled into the oil pressure "jacket" that runs the length of the block. You would need to first aquire the squirter, install the turbo piston and mark the location of the "notch", then mill enough space flat for the squirter to fit (in the right location). Then drill into the block for the bolt and for the passage into the oil jacket. Then bend the squirter into the right spray position.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/coolairvw/Jetta%20Engine/Oilsquirters.jpg)
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Hi,
I ordered a set of squirters this week with the intention of doing this.
They were expensive - I was told to expect around 20 euro each, I ordered them from the main dealer, not sure if they're available elsewhere.
I'm hoping to add them to my 86' JP code block, it already has the areas for the squirters milled flat so I'm hoping it should be relatively simple to drill and tap for the bolt hole and drill for the oil feed.
I'm planning on installing a TD oil pump also & notching my existing piston skirts. I had the block bored, relined and skimmed with the pistons skimmed to match.
Regards,
Fionn.
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You could just coat the piston tops with a ceramic coating to help block the heat transfer. Add the bigger down pipe and you should be all set.
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I cant find anyone doing ceramic coating here unfortunately but I'm sure it's a good option for those that have it available to them.
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I am sure someone is doing it over there. I think we have a few members from Ireland who post here. Perhaps they can help.
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You could just coat the piston tops with a ceramic coating to help block the heat transfer. Add the bigger down pipe and you should be all set.
Pistons absorb around 20% of the combustion heat. If you are just coating them and blocking the heat transfer there will be 20% more (well less then this of course) heat going past the exhaust valve.
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BMW oil squirters are about $10 each and are very high quality. My friends use them in Volvo applications with great results! You could always go that route if the VW parts are too expensive.
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BMW oil squirters are about $10 each and are very high quality. My friends use them in Volvo applications with great results! You could always go that route if the VW parts are too expensive.
Can you give us a part number and source for those squirters?
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BMW oil squirters are about $10 each and are very high quality. My friends use them in Volvo applications with great results! You could always go that route if the VW parts are too expensive.
Can you give us a part number and source for those squirters?
Sure thing.
11-11-1-739-907
Here is a thread on how we put them into our Volvo engines. Same basic idea here.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=115422
sean
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yes i am also interested in the BMW squirters $40.00 sounds better then $100.00.Do you know the ebgine type?
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yes i am also interested in the BMW squirters $40.00 sounds better then $100.00.Do you know the ebgine type?
I forgot. Just give the dealer the above mentioned part number.
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That kit on Turbobricks.com (ha ha...) is bad a$$. Any machinists around here want to fab up something for us? I'll trade you some time with my valve shim kit & tools for some time with your squirter installer.
Don't the VW squirters have pressure valves in them so that they are only squirting when oil pressure goes up? Do the BMW units?
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That kit on Turbobricks.com (ha ha...) is bad a$$. Any machinists around here want to fab up something for us? I'll trade you some time with my valve shim kit & tools for some time with your squirter installer.
Don't the VW squirters have pressure valves in them so that they are only squirting when oil pressure goes up? Do the BMW units?
That's pretty slick, eh? The community over there kicks ass!
I'm pretty sure the BMW squirters have a check ball as well.
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this thread is awesome.....i dont think i trust myself enough to do the work though
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Well, looks like it's going to be time to pull out the ole drill sooner than I thought. My head gasket just started giving me a little pressure in my cooling system on the highway. So, I'll rebuild, and If I'm in there, I figure it's time to add squirters.
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Bump. Does anyone have pics of factory squirter installation? Are they the same as the BMW units?
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Are there any other differences between the Td piston and the N/A piston besides the notch for the oil squirter?
This thread is really amazing, I hope to coat piston tops and drill in the squirters someday
This is really something..Great job man!
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Are there any other differences between the Td piston and the N/A piston besides the notch for the oil squirter?
supposedly the TD pistons have a special heat reflective coating, and may be made of a more heat resistant alloy... my guess is that early on this was the case, and then VW just stuck to using the stronger piston for both TD and N/A. would be interesting to know for sure though!
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Well I finally received my squirters (well actually only one squirter and bolt so far, but enough to let me drill the holes).
I'm just wondering if anyone has some dimensions on how deep the cut in to the piston skirt needs to be?
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Well I finally received my squirters (well actually only one squirter and bolt so far, but enough to let me drill the holes).
I'm just wondering if anyone has some dimensions on how deep the cut in to the piston skirt needs to be?
I got a piston out right now. I'll take some pics and measurements and post the results tomorrow, no wait, superbowl, monday, no wait got plans, tuesday (I'll try anyway)
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Cheers for that, I'll hopefully be busy drilling and tapping for the squirters tomorrow anyway ;)
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Thanks to libbybapa here is the bus depot listing.
Jet $22.72 068103157D
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Vwdieselparts.com has oil squirters in stock for $25. each.
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Since our squirters have a side bolt holding them in, drilling the block is a bit more involved.
"I'm pretty sure the BMW squirters have a check ball as well."
Can anyone confirm that the bmw style squirters have a check balll???
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Cheers for that, I'll hopefully be busy drilling and tapping for the squirters tomorrow anyway ;)
fionn, are running the bmw squirters? if so would you snap a pic for us?
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Hi Guys,
No, I got the regular VW Squirters, the squirter and bolt that goes with it cost me 24 euro each from the main dealer.
Part Nos:
068 103 1578
N 902 415 01
For what it's worth, the hole for the squirter is 8.5mm in diameter and the bolt requires a 6 x 1 Metric tap.
It was quite easy but I could have made a better job of it.
The hole, rather than being vertical should be angled back towards the oil channel that you're aiming for.
2 of my squirter holes ended up slightly oval which is not good but I'm hoping that some chemical metal or similar around the squirter might prevent me from losing too much pressure.
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FYI: http://e30m3performance.com/installs/installs-3/squirters/index.htm
That guy has made an extensive write up of the subject..
http://e30m3performance.com/installs/installs-3/squirters/pic-7.jpg
the banjo bolt on the right shows a spring inside the 618 style squirter, which I think proves it doesn't open at low pressures..
I think those would definitely be the simplest, they certainly are cheap at around 6 bucks each...One hole to drill, face, and tap, and you're done, only gotcha is mimicking the squirter angle on the td block.
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The angle doesn't have to be perfect. The nozzle just needs to be pointed in the general direction.
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I was actually referring to angling the drill hole properly so it breaks out into the galley ;)
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MYKE_W are you adding oil squirters?
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I have a bunch of NA blocks... and a bunch of people wanting turbo motors.. :)
If I can figure out how to get the drill rig set up I'll do it.. Time is the major factor for me... this is more of a hobby project and stuff like this almost always gets relegated to the back burner..
I need to figure out what the guy in the turbobricks forum is using:
Questions being
1) what the hell is that thing he's using to hold the bit? He says it's a "faced off a FORD 2300 head bolt to have a square surface" I've never seen a heal bolt like that.
2) where do we get a long drill bit like that?
3) where do we get a face cutter?
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what about early 94' aba 2.0L gasser oil squirters? are they the same? adaptable?
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I think that he has used a Ford head bolt because it has a bigger head on it, say a 19mm or 22mm wrench size instead of the 17mm original size.
This is to have a bigger area to support the aluminum bracket, he then machined a little bit off the top of this bolt head to get all the manufacturers lettering off and to make sure that it is flat.
Next, he drilled a hole into the head of the bolt and tapped it with an 8mm tap.
The big bolt goes into the bearing cap first, gets torqued down and then the aluminum guide plate is bolted on top of this bolt with the 8mm bolt.
You can then adjust the drill position and torque the 8mm bolt down last.
The extra long drill and face cutter can be ordered from any machine tool supplier.
Easy to make.
Herman
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what about early 94' aba 2.0L gasser oil squirters? are they the same? adaptable?
same as td vw
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I was actually referring to angling the drill hole properly so it breaks out into the galley ;)
Ahhh...that needs to be pretty dead on 8)
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I just had a thought about this in the last few days... why not add oil SLINGERS to the crank shaft...like in a simple lawn mower engine...all it would require is adding a simple metal stick of some shape to the bottom of the connecting rods, held on by the main bolts...like a washer... and the bottom of this would dip into the oil sump and splatter the oil all over the inside of the engine, including the upper cylinders...could probably shape them so they target the cylinders instead of just everywhere also... and its so simple. may require keeping the oil level a little higher than normal...
only reason i could think of why this wouldnt work is if there is some guard under the crank shaft im not aware of...or if it would make the oil foam or something...
thoughts?
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I wanted to do this to the 4 banger in my 190d 2.2 soooo bad! That engine would be a monster with a turbo strapped to it! I will keep this bookmarked in the back of my head as "possible" ;D
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I actuallly wanted to find out about drilling another hole in the connecting rod that lines up with the rod bearing oil supply, then maybe braze or silver solder a peice of small brass tube into that hole and silver solder it to the rod directing it to the piston head, could also supply oil to the small end bushing area if so desired.
A real slick option would be some billet aluminum rods that were rifle drilled with this option, after installing the small end bushing, you would have to re-drill the holes and maybe make a shallow grove in the bushing to allow the oil to transfer to the top hole proving a constant oil flow to the piston, no cutting the skirts, no drilling and tapping, just a simple set of custom rods, (shoot this could be an upgrade to the TD block as the oil would always be going to the center of the piston, not just at bottom of the stroke) you could also drill and tap the hole at the big end oversize, add a spring, check ball and an adjustable set screw, this could allow a certain break away pressure possibly even flow rate. all in a simple set of upgrade connecting rods.
This being said, its alot more money but kills several birds with one stone. You would have billet aluminum rods, lubricated small end bushings, and piston oil squirters all at once. and have it bolt on. if they were sold with rod bearings and small end bushings they would be perfect for anyone doing a rebuild. My biggest concern at that point would be the oil supply to the main bearings transfer the oil to the rod bearings transfer the oil to the bushing, transfer the oil the the piston. That being said, thats how ALL rod bearings are supplied the oil they get, so whats one more step as long as the output at the piston is metered with either the correct jet size, or the spring check valve.
hmm, I need a shortblock to measure and mill my own rods.
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You don't want "billet" aluminum rods. They'd last all of maybe a month. It's no-where near the perfect material for this application. Way to much stress.
Corilla will make you whatever rod you want. I was quoted $800 for a forged set of h-beams a few years back. I settled on stock rods resized with arp2600 hardware. Should have had them peened and polished, but even stock they'll hold up to just about as much as you can make before snapping mains caps off.
Someone need to make a simple drill fixture that bolt to the bottom of the block. If I didn't have a TD block sitting wait to get bored out I'd make one. Just a chunk of alumn. and some drill bushing plus some time on the bridgeport....