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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: dillenger1 on December 12, 2007, 06:24:56 am
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whats the next bumpm in power from a k14?Ive been doing some searches and it seems like im going to be limited to grunty low end power.i was womdering if theres a solution without going to vnt's
ben
p.s. ive not even assembled the motor(1.6ltr na)ill be buying parts soon
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Best turbo depends on what you want to accomplish.
For quick spool up you'd want a K14, for max boost a K03, there is also the K24 which I think is sort of between the two.
The K14 spools quick but is limited to 18-20 lbs of boost, a K03 will take lots of boost but spool up ~1,000 RPM later.
VNT on an IDI has been done by several, search for it. There is also a thread on Jack's forum http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8065
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Best turbo depends on what you want to accomplish.
For quick spool up you'd want a K14, for max boost a K03, there is also the K24 which I think is sort of between the two.
The K14 spools quick but is limited to 18-20 lbs of boost, a K03 will take lots of boost but spool up ~1,000 RPM later.
VNT on an IDI has been done by several, search for it. There is also a thread on Jack's forum http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8065
Hi,
Could some one offer guidance I don't know what my turbo is. I can read Garrett. BCC. F4 on it and I was told by the shop that is came from a 1.6 VW. Thanks.
Haybayian
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Probably a T3 haybayian.
I want to buy a K14 if someone is selling 8)
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I think i have a K14 but i am not sure as i am not able to see any labels on the turbo?
i will have a closer look when taking the head off ready for the new one.
if it is a k14 is it ok to up the boost a bit?
Chris
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Probably a T3 haybayian.
I want to buy a K14 if someone is selling 8)
Thanks BYM
What are the T3 performance characteristics?
Haybayian
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I find T3s big and laggy with stock fueling and a stock exhaust but as I've found out mine was rather worn so that may not be accurate
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i run a k14 off an ecodiesel and it is great man. i run almost 19 lbs boost and it is spooled all the time. im getting a turbo pump on there soon and i dont think you would want to run much more boost than that with proper fueling. go with the k14!
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fueling shouldnt be a problem, Now ,do i want a k14 from a vw ?There are different versions of the k14 right?External or internal waiste gate?Can you keep an internal wg closed longer mechanically?
ben
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Best turbo depends on what you want to accomplish.
For quick spool up you'd want a K14, for max boost a K03, there is also the K24 which I think is sort of between the two.
The K14 spools quick but is limited to 18-20 lbs of boost, a K03 will take lots of boost but spool up ~1,000 RPM later.
VNT on an IDI has been done by several, search for it. There is also a thread on Jack's forum http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8065
i thought it went K03, K14, then K24? and garrett (which most believe is superior) T2, and T3.
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There are a lot of different K03s, I believe the diesel one is a K03 003
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T2 gets my bill. Good overall boost down low. Good for 17 psi.
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I find T3s big and laggy with stock fueling and a stock exhaust but as I've found out mine was rather worn so that may not be accurate
Nope, they're just big and laggy with stock fuel and exhaust !
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i thought it went K03, K14, then K24? and garrett (which most believe is superior) T2, and T3.
You are probably right, I can't keep them straight. :wink:
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i like the internal wastegates better for simpler plumbing... but the external flows alot better and will give you more power once you reach max boost.
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This is a good topic.
I have the T3 on mine and after turning the fuel screw just a few turns, its blissful to drive. I love it. But the K14 sounds appealing because my car lacks boost at low RPM and sometimes this is annoying.
If one were after a quick car for practical daily use, which turbo would you choose? I assume a K14 would have more power evenly throughout the rev range whereas a T3 will really come alive at higher RPM and generally be a rev happy engine?
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I have a K14 (internal waste gate) for sale if anyone's interested.
I removed it from my AAZ and installed a Garrett T3. More boost, but later on.
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I went T3 on my AAZ with a 2.5" exhaust,and it really is a good choice,there is a bit of lag,but my fuelling is factory,ive only altered the on boost fuel.
1st gear,give it some,drop to second the turbo is ready,give it loads in second,drop to third and it just takes off,pulls really strong in 5th too 8)
Bert
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I agree fully. I have the same setup, but with a Giles pump and ported head in an 800Kg Caddy. :D :D :D
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:twisted:
Bert
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Don't ya just love the smell of roasting tires in the morning :roll:
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the t3 is amazing, ive had nearly 40psi out of mine, fair enough its lagy but not a problem, just use first gear to get the high rpm then just hold it through the gears, pulls like a train.
i was a gti man before i tried this aaz, now i wudnt even think about going back, i just laugh at people wen they talk about gti and 16v cus i can take em all :lol:
wen i had my standard turbo on it felt like there was more there off the mark but then just cudnt keep up, i remember beeting my mates 16v at a 5 metre race
in my experiance u can eather hav lag then boost or boost then slow
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in my experiance u can eather hav lag then boost or boost then slow
Well then, you've never used a VNT. A properly sized VNT allows very quick spooling and better flow/bigger boost than the larger turbos at higher RPMs.
Andrew
AND VNTs fail regularly while T3s run forever. :wink:
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Yes the T3 will run forever,mine was from a 1986 1.6TD and still blows like a goodun :shock: i have changed a few vnt turbos,they dont last long,there garrett too,mainly renault diesels,could be a french thing :wink:
Bert
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Stewardc, you enjoy making your car look pretty, I enjoy tinkering with mechanical things. You don't mind turbo lag, I do. I don't mind making a "complicated" vane control system. You do. Everyone has different priorities.
I disagree strongly. I've just finished building a very advanced AAZ 2-liter for my caddy and the technical side is very important to me. With that displacement, at sea level, boost lag hasn't been an issue. I just fail to see how a unit as complicated as a VNT and it's associated control system is better in any way. Admitedly, it allows a smaller turbo to respond somewhat like a larger turbo, but at what cost? Maybe if I lived at 7000 ft, I would feel different.
I guess everyone has their own formula for success and, obviously, you've found yours. Let's just agree to disagree, OK? :wink:
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Before the vnt turbos were around i had never known a turbo fail,but now im doing quite a few,and they are fitted to the designed applications,not made to fit something else,the bearings are colapsing and the ones ive took off have been chewed to pieces,the one had dumped a gallon of oil into the intercooler which in turn bent a rod :lol: dont matter it was a renault diesel so no loss there :wink:,im not the only garage by me in the uk to do turbo exchanges,the local euro car parts keep vnt's in stock as there is such a demand,the one i changed had 55,000 miles 2003 car with 5 service stamps,so the oil had been changed,more if it was my vehicle 8) the other was a passat pd with 80,000 miles,and a vauxhall vectra 2.0 dti,so its either a weaker design than the old school turbos,or there running at full capacity too much of the time? im not shure,i just feel happy with a proven T3 with 21 years under its belt and still boosting :twisted:
All the best for the new year lads.Many happy vw diesels
Bert
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Is there a good rebuild kit available for our T3's?
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here y go
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Genuine-Garrett-quality-T3-Rebuild-Kit-FREE-UK-POST_W0QQitemZ150200265173QQihZ005QQcategoryZ72205QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Bert
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I think it all came down to cost. The electronics were driving engine prices up, so VW turned to technology to recover some cost. The VNT is definitely a much smaller (cheaper-to-build) turbo than a T3 and the variable vanes allow it to produce boost (though working much harder) where it shouldn't, so cost is kept down while reliability suffers. Another victim of the bean counters.
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You have the answers, I guess. I was just offering opinions. There must be some reason that VW switched to a far less reliable turbo. I'm sure I don't know what the reason is.
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guys its just a forum :oops:
sorry to go off at a tangent but why dont people use superchargers?
or even a supercharger and a turbo?
im trying to build a very strange aaz for my mk1 rocco and my plan is to run a supercharger with custom pullys to produce stupid boost at very low rpm then at high rpm it will disengage whilst the turbo off a lorry will take over also nos to get enough fuel in to make use of all that boost
does that sound silly or am i on to sumthin?
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I don't see why a supercharger wouldn't work. GM diesels all used them for years, though they were strange 2-strokes. They also used turbos feeding superchargers and it worked great. Normally, a SC produces more power (torque) down low...at least it does on a gasoline engine.
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i understand that the supercharger sucks power from the engine and that turbos are running on waste gass but trouble is that at low revs theres not enough waste gas to build boost quick enough
my plan make sum custom pullys so that the charger was running about 10psi at about 1000rpm then cuts off about 3000 before it blows up by which time the massive turbo is spinning.
anyone know what superchager i should be looking for? it needs to produce about 35-40 psi oh and be cheap
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VW already has an engine with a turbo and supercharger. The purpose is exactly what you said, the SC builds boost immediately and the TC takes over at high rpm. It is a gas engine. Diesels have a "simpler" option in the VNT turbo which essentially does the same thing (can be a small, fast spooling turbo AND a high rpm turbo) without the parasitic drag of the supercharger. Gassers don't have the option of this luxury cuz their higher EGT's will deform the vanes of the VNT.
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I have a Garrett turbo with the PN of TA0304. Is that the same thing as a T3 turbo or just a TA0304? :roll:
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i understand that the supercharger sucks power from the engine and that turbos are running on waste gass but trouble is that at low revs theres not enough waste gas to build boost quick enough
my plan make sum custom pullys so that the charger was running about 10psi at about 1000rpm then cuts off about 3000 before it blows up by which time the massive turbo is spinning.
anyone know what superchager i should be looking for? it needs to produce about 35-40 psi oh and be cheap
thats where VNT turbo's come into play. they can make crazy boost at low rpm's (jake's VNT rabbit was making boost at idle, and blipping the throttle he was able to produce a few psi (maybe 5 psi?) of boost. for the amount of work and headaches to get a supercharger to work (efficiently) why not just go with the mechanical linkages like Tintin had?
also the reason for the VNT turbo's being unreliable are high egt's, and other soot related issues. if you run a vnt on a high sooted engine it will obviously clog up much quicker than a regular stock TDI. cheap oils, clogged intakes & vanes, foreign objects, and high EGT's due to all of the previously mentioned are probably the most common reasons for the VNT turbo failure.
best idea when switching to a VNT is to run a big exhaust and ditch the EGR system. modifying the pump to run as little black smoke as possible would also help. actuating the vanes after a good run can also help 'clean' the turbo out. (while the engine is running so any crap gets blown out the tailpipe)
after watching Tintin's video of his VNT-20 i'm hooked. his boost gauge spiked 20 psi like my K24 spikes 5 psi... there's no contest. can a supercharger even compare?
add a VNT turbo with some passenger performance manifolds and a large downpipe to let it breathe properly, and you'll have one sweet ride!
lol... supercharger = pwned
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1925907202892093863
it just boosts so easily...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2328693919539972270
i just don't see why anyone would bother with an SC. maybe if you have a lot of money lying around... but still. the best part about this setup is the free flowing of the VNT when the vanes are not actuated. when your foot isn't on it, the vanes let the gases flow past, making it lest restrictive, and making it act more like a non turbo. basically power-on-demand.
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that videos ara on a M tdi...
will the results be similar on a 1.6 idi gfor example?
and how would the tranny and clutch behave to that increased boost?
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that videos ara on a M tdi...
will the results be similar on a 1.6 idi gfor example?
Yep, it will. VNT20 spools much better than stock K24 ot T3 and is still "bigger" for performance.
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my favourite part is when Tintin blips the throttle, at idle mind you, and nearly hits 30 psi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:
i would say that with the right fueling and injection pump mods, that one could reproduce these results on an IDI. remember that the TDI engines supposedly run 'cooler' because of combustion efficiency, and so our IDI's have more 'heat' to spool the turbo... :)
can't find a video where he shows boost, but this is a VNT-20 on a 1.6TD!
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=dCOJ8afz9oA&NR=1
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=2p9skPj8b14&feature=related is that a boost gauge? can't read it properly... it looks like one but the boost isn't moving so well... looks underfueled to me.
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=hzaqBfKPa50&NR=1 these guys actually used some sort of vacuum device to control the vanes... almost looks like its from cruise control... it would work, but would it be as quick as pedal response??? i doubt it would be as accurate unless calibrated properly as well... pretty interesting stuff on the Fr youtube!
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A simple question has been raised regarding exhaust temperatures. What is the difference in EGTs between IDI, TDI and Gasoline?
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Sorry, can't answer that. I'd assume that the gassers would be the highest, (at normal operating speeds, not "hammer on it mode) they run the richest.
I've got a question for you. severa; of you have already done the T3/AAZ thing, the only thing that I see that's not bolt in is the oil return line. Did you cut up two return lines to make one, or have something custom made? Keep thinking I should do this one, all the parts are just sitting here........
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Sorry, can't answer that. I'd assume that the gassers would be the highest, (at normal operating speeds, not "hammer on it mode) they run the richest.
I've got a question for you. severa; of you have already done the T3/AAZ thing, the only thing that I see that's not bolt in is the oil return line. Did you cut up two return lines to make one, or have something custom made? Keep thinking I should do this one, all the parts are just sitting here........
A 1.6 top with a 1.9 bottom connected by a piece of hose is what's on my T3/AAZ right now, but it will be replaced by a custom hose next summer.
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Did you put it into a 1.6 pan, or will it hook to the block?
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Hooked to the block.
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i just used a 1.6 pan/sump
ok so vnt is the way forward, but sounds to me like id go through about 1 per week so its out of the question for me, as i hav no money just friends with a scrap yard and doubtfull id find loads of these, i thort up an easyer way to get rid of lag, all you need is old scraps of metal an alternator and a bit of time,
esentualy atatch a shaft to the turbine in the turbo and then take the clutch wheel off a tdi alternator and uve got a super charger that when the engine produces enough gasses will then turn into a turbo :wink:
i call it the superturbo :idea:
did i just invent sumthin?
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same as stewardc 1.6 top welded to 1.9 bottom with flexi pipe still,bolted to block
Bert
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You want to see the turbo vnt fitted to the citroen c3 you can drop it in a cup of tea :lol:
Bert
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I'm surprised no one mentioned that you will be blowing head gaskets left and right at 35-40 psi. I hope you are taking that into consideration.
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i just used a 1.6 pan/sump
ok so vnt is the way forward, but sounds to me like id go through about 1 per week so its out of the question for me, as i hav no money just friends with a scrap yard and doubtfull id find loads of these, i thort up an easyer way to get rid of lag, all you need is old scraps of metal an alternator and a bit of time,
esentualy atatch a shaft to the turbine in the turbo and then take the clutch wheel off a tdi alternator and uve got a super charger that when the engine produces enough gasses will then turn into a turbo :wink:
i call it the superturbo :idea:
did i just invent sumthin?
honda made a turbo that spooled with an electric motor. i think the idea was great an all, but for reliability... its absolutely out of the question. now if you were going to try and extract some shaft power through gear reduction.... :twisted: the turbo could probably produce 10 hp @ full song. 100:1 ratio = mad torque, but i could see turbo failure if you were to suddenly engage it without any sort of clutching mechanism.
i wonder if it would be possible to make a magnetic bearing turbo, and somehow scavenge electricity from it, or make it produce its own magnetic field with all that kinetic energy? spool would be even quicker and smoother... :shock:
i'd say minimum of a VNT-17 for 15-20 psi boost, and that is pushing it. i'd like to see the exhaust backpressure at 20 psi on a VNT-17, as with vnt's you're more concerned with that.
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I read somewhere that on some of the new makes of diesels with cats, that the engine would periodicly surge the egt's to burn out any build up of soot etc.
Would an occasional egt spike like this help burn out any build up inside the vnt turbo's?
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can't find a video where he shows boost, but this is a VNT-20 on a 1.6TD!
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=dCOJ8afz9oA&NR=1
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=2p9skPj8b14&feature=related is that a boost gauge?
It is my car :)
Sorry for my english - it isn't good...
1,6TD; 10mm pump (by Trochim - pump expert in Poland); IC from sprinter; 2,25" exhaust and VNT20
That isn't a boost gauge. It's a EGT gauge.
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=hzaqBfKPa50&NR=1 these guys actually used some sort of vacuum device to control the vanes...
Here an old version with VNT17.
I am not in condition to explain (Language barrier) but it isn't "some sort of vacuum device". It works on pressure.
Hmm... Maybe the picture helps...
http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=schematiu3.jpg
It work s on 2 level - low and hi pressure.
And here is topic about my car (in polish).
http://forum.vwgolf.pl/viewtopic.php?t=92790&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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I've taken apart many wastegated and VNT turbos and can say that there is nothing more robust about a wastegated turbo. I do however believe the information that there are more turbo problems now with new vehicles than there were in the days wastegated turbos. There are three reasons for this as I see it. One is that the turbo vanes have very little room for movement on the VNT. Any carbon buildup will quickly cause the vanes to stick. The second is that they spin a lot faster and will easily surge under the "right" conditions. In an attempt to eliminate turbo lag, the turbos fitted to most new applications are IMO too small for the engines they are being fitted to. I have a KKK that was fit to a 1.9 TDI that looks like it would fit a chainsaw. I can't fit my thumb in the compressor outlet. The conditions where the turbo will be damaged are then attempted to be controlled by the computer. Any issues with the sensors or control system over any period of time can result in significant damage to the turbo. The final is that there are quite a few "turbo problems" that are actually problems with the sensors or vane control system itself. I think that you would be hard pressed to blow up a VNT unless you ran one that was considerably too small and ran too much boost through it consistently. I also think you would need one of considerable size to hold down consistent levels of 35-40psi of boost on an AAZ. You would likely want a VNT 20 or VNT 25. I am quite sure that if you used one of those you would be replacing connecting rods much, much more frequently than turbos. :wink: I would also mention that EGTs are waaaayyy cooler running a VNT than a wastegated turbo at similar boost or power levels. We haven't been able to get above 900°F pre-turbine on my friend's quantum despite trying an extended run on a highway 6% grade. From a stop at the bottom of the hill we were going 80+ MPH before it got above 900°F. We also can't seem to keep the boost below 20 psi with an intercooled VNT17 on a 1.6TD and boost is any time you want it.
Andrew
i suspect that you are correct about sizing being the problem...
anyone running a vw with a t3 will always say that t3's are indestructible - because they don't work very hard for their whole lifetime! a t3 is a big turbo - much bigger than really needed for a 1.6 or 1.9 - hence, max rpms are seldom reached, the turbo goes forever.
likewise, vnt's are probably contructed better than any older turbo's, but die to the sizing, they do run crazy rpms. this has a shortening effect on the life of bearings etc, and the longer your turbo runs at max revs (which is the goal of a vnt) then the faster you can expect it to wear, and possible fail.
even the k14 is (from a traditional persective) a little large for a 1.6 - but perfect in real driving terms.
i don't think from any performance perspective that a vnt could fall behind a wastegated turbo - the technology is superior. but the application must be correct. - and since the goal of modern engine production in the tdi area is to burn clean and torquey, then the goal fir the engine producer (vw) is to make as much boost right through the low rpm rev range as possible, yet still be useable up the top end for that kW selling point. thus, you fit a small, highly stressed vnt that if driven hard, will wear out fast.
if, on the other hand, your goal is to make an ever lasting 70hp slogger, that doesnt spool much around town but gives you a hand up the grades on the freeway, then mr vw engineer puts a t3 on a 1.6 IDI and it goes forever and ever and ever.
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I read somewhere that on some of the new makes of diesels with cats, that the engine would periodicly surge the egt's to burn out any build up of soot etc.
Would an occasional egt spike like this help burn out any build up inside the vnt turbo's?
I've read several places in the last little while that VW themselves are recommending a "spirited" drive at least once a month to degunk the VNT vanes, and I know my local mechanic calls gunked vanes "the grampa syndrome" as in: babying it all the time is actually bad for it.
Somewhere on the Internet there's a fantastic DIY of of a VNT rebuild where the dude laboriously adds that nuclear-grade antiseize to each vane actuator... as I recall he claims they never jam again after he's done with them. Unfortunately I've lost the link....
"Sorry I'm speeding honey... but Volkswagen insists.... " ;-) Think the cops would buy it ??
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I've taken apart many wastegated and VNT turbos and can say that there is nothing more robust about a wastegated turbo. I do however believe the information that there are more turbo problems now with new vehicles than there were in the days wastegated turbos. There are three reasons for this as I see it. One is that the turbo vanes have very little room for movement on the VNT. Any carbon buildup will quickly cause the vanes to stick. The second is that they spin a lot faster and will easily surge under the "right" conditions. In an attempt to eliminate turbo lag, the turbos fitted to most new applications are IMO too small for the engines they are being fitted to. I have a KKK that was fit to a 1.9 TDI that looks like it would fit a chainsaw. I can't fit my thumb in the compressor outlet. The conditions where the turbo will be damaged are then attempted to be controlled by the computer. Any issues with the sensors or control system over any period of time can result in significant damage to the turbo. The final is that there are quite a few "turbo problems" that are actually problems with the sensors or vane control system itself. I think that you would be hard pressed to blow up a VNT unless you ran one that was considerably too small and ran too much boost through it consistently. I also think you would need one of considerable size to hold down consistent levels of 35-40psi of boost on an AAZ. You would likely want a VNT 20 or VNT 25. I am quite sure that if you used one of those you would be replacing connecting rods much, much more frequently than turbos. :wink: I would also mention that EGTs are waaaayyy cooler running a VNT than a wastegated turbo at similar boost or power levels. We haven't been able to get above 900°F pre-turbine on my friend's quantum despite trying an extended run on a highway 6% grade. From a stop at the bottom of the hill we were going 80+ MPH before it got above 900°F. We also can't seem to keep the boost below 20 psi with an intercooled VNT17 on a 1.6TD and boost is any time you want it.
Andrew
i suspect that you are correct about sizing being the problem...
anyone running a vw with a t3 will always say that t3's are indestructible - because they don't work very hard for their whole lifetime! a t3 is a big turbo - much bigger than really needed for a 1.6 or 1.9 - hence, max rpms are seldom reached, the turbo goes forever.
likewise, vnt's are probably contructed better than any older turbo's, but die to the sizing, they do run crazy rpms. this has a shortening effect on the life of bearings etc, and the longer your turbo runs at max revs (which is the goal of a vnt) then the faster you can expect it to wear, and possible fail.
even the k14 is (from a traditional persective) a little large for a 1.6 - but perfect in real driving terms.
i don't think from any performance perspective that a vnt could fall behind a wastegated turbo - the technology is superior. but the application must be correct. - and since the goal of modern engine production in the tdi area is to burn clean and torquey, then the goal fir the engine producer (vw) is to make as much boost right through the low rpm rev range as possible, yet still be useable up the top end for that kW selling point. thus, you fit a small, highly stressed vnt that if driven hard, will wear out fast.
if, on the other hand, your goal is to make an ever lasting 70hp slogger, that doesnt spool much around town but gives you a hand up the grades on the freeway, then mr vw engineer puts a t3 on a 1.6 IDI and it goes forever and ever and ever.
Well spoken (written) my man. Applause to you. :D
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how have you moddified the VNT to keep from sticking?
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Can anyone post what the compressor and exhaust sizes are for the T3?
Also, has anyone used a water cooled turbo (from a gasser) in a diesel application? Where do you attache the water cooling hoses to get the flow correct?
As far as the return oil line, what's the minimum I.D. for this? What is the commonly accepted return point? Lower block or upper oil pan? Downsides??
Thanks,
-JB
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I think theres a thread started about watercooled turbos.I believe someone said that there are some k24 or k26 that have the watercooling jacket.No need for gasser turbo.
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Sorry, I thought we were all trying to bring together knowledge about the subject of turbo-charging. Stuff we've tried, been there-didn't work, I don't think it would hurt to think outside the box and include applications from other areas.
For example, in my situation, I found out that the turbo listed in the old Callaway kit that came with the Caddy I bought is a brand called Roto-Master. I finall found a company to rebuild it and the guy said it was a Garrett. I found out later in the inventory sheet it's called a T04B and had a number by it 104146-C . Markings on the turbo I could find said:
Exhaust A/R .4
Intake A/R 60
There was a number 104395 (on the compressor)
And 104247 (also on the compressor)
Anyway, I was wondering if this is a bigger turbo than a T3? It seems a bit laggy, and you have to throw a lot of fuel at it to really spool up. So maybe this the wrong turbo for this motor.
Or maybe I should look at building a 1.9 :twisted:
Happy New Year!!
Jeff
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The preference of turbos vs. superchargers is due to the fact that the added boost from a turbo is "free" energy recovered from exhaust heat (makes the engine 10% more efficient) and, in contrast, the added power produced by a supercharger costs energy by being a direct drag on the engine.
i just started reading this thread but for someone who obviously has technical knowledge involving turbo chargers and VNT control systems etc. your comment stating turbos make engines '10% more efficient' seems silly as even a turbo noob would know the exact efficiency is dependent on much more than just the fact that there is a turbo present. its especially ridiculous considering you are quick to point out others comments as foolish if the technical content is not in line with your opinion.
that said, hi. im relatively new here, as well as to diesels and i just figured i would get my initial jerkface post out of the way. i would also like to say i have enjoyed your thread on the gt2559v (http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10365&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) retrofit to your mercedes and it was some good reading for me and the boys at the shop.
j
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No need to be sorry ,I didnt mean to sound fecisious.I am game for all knowledge.Im not one to scold,Im new to this forum community myself so that being said ,i just wanted to thank everybody for all the knowledge.Every day i get alittle closer to completing my ride
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has anyone tried a t3/t4 setup? how well would that work with the standard t3 flange and .63 a/r turbine?
would the boost come in at a low enough rpm to really get into it?
id imagine it'd make for a good deal of boost
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The preference of turbos vs. superchargers is due to the fact that the added boost from a turbo is "free" energy recovered from exhaust heat (makes the engine 10% more efficient) and, in contrast, the added power produced by a supercharger costs energy by being a direct drag on the engine.
i just started reading this thread but for someone who obviously has technical knowledge involving turbo chargers and VNT control systems etc. your comment stating turbos make engines '10% more efficient' seems silly as even a turbo noob would know the exact efficiency is dependent on much more than just the fact that there is a turbo present. its especially ridiculous considering you are quick to point out others comments as foolish if the technical content is not in line with your opinion.
that said, hi. im relatively new here, as well as to diesels and i just figured i would get my initial jerkface post out of the way. i would also like to say i have enjoyed your thread on the gt2559v (http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10365&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) retrofit to your mercedes and it was some good reading for me and the boys at the shop.
j
regardless, the fact is that turbo's make the engine 10% more efficient. no opinion there. you might say "hey the engine is just pushing more air into the motor. without extra fuel you won't make 10% extra power!" but... it is just 10% more efficient. efficiency does not have everything to do with power etc.
Seems like the turbo motor is more like 20% more efficient, but not quite..
(http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2185/comparison2um5.jpg)
i'll stand by VNT any day after seeing Tintin's video's. i'm also wondering about the feasibility of running water/meth injection to help clean and prevent the vanes from coking, sticking, and seizing up. couple of high boost runs with water/meth injection every once in a while should do the trick :wink:
well /hijack :wink:
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This has been a blast to read through.
Living @ 4500 feet and running a k24 has it's issues.
Even throwing ass loads of fuel in there is a problem.
At freeway speeds (75mph) I'm running about 4-5psi, (laggy pig) while in 5th gear. If I push on the go peddle all I get is allot of smoke, I mean James Bond kinda smoke, it will spool in a short time but right now the clutch wont hold above 20psi.
In lower gears off the line once I get it to light it's scary fast but once on the freeway I'm hosed.
Anyway, in my situation a VNT20 with the mechanical linkage would be great, if I could just find find one..
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VNT20 with mechanical linkage, very cool :D ! Tintin is working on my setup :lol: .
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My 17 will make at least 15 psi if I floor it at 2k rpm. I need to adjust it as I was running 18 before. It comes on very quickly. I am around 10 PSI at 65, though I have to push a lot of air, and I'm at 3k rpm at 65. That's cruising on a flat road.
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I have a VNT20 coming. I just need to figure out what engine I want to stick it on. I'm still undecided. 1.6, 1.9, IDI, M-TDI.. Right now I have a tired 1.6NA. Anybody have a buildable engine they want to sell?
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would be cool to see someone do a compund turbo setup. use a K-14 for quick spool and then feed that into a K03, would take alot of time and some framulating, but think of the results :twisted:
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I have been offered a brand new turbo at a stupidly low price - the guy says it's a water cooled Garrett TB0303 - any good for my AAZ?
Or is it too 'big'. Still learning on turbo's, just don't want to miss out if its good.
How does it relate to my K3 in terms of spool up & boost?
The compressor is A/R 0.42 & the exhaust is A/R 0.63. Apparently.
DD
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A .63 a/r turbine(hotside) will produce boost at a later time. You will need much higher rpms for it to work, like 3500-4000.
That being said, I would certainly not turn it down. You can always sell it later or modify it to work for your application.