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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Mikeyworks on March 18, 2005, 08:54:25 am
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I was trying to remove the cam bolt last night and I think I made a fatal error.
Instead of using the Impact Wrench like I normally do to remove the bolt, I used the ratchet bar and the lock plate.
Damn end of the cam snapped.
(http://www.photodump.com/direct/mhitchings/P3180025-1.jpg)
It's still intact as a whole cam within the journals...just that little piece on the end chipped off. I think I still have it all too.
Is this the end of this cam? Am I going to have to replace it?
Note to all, if you paint your sprockets, don't paint the inside where it fits onto the cam/crank/etc. It makes getting the things off much harder (near impossible).
Mikey
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a pal of mine did the same thing. he just left it alone and kept driving. just takes a little more attention while setting the timing.
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well, that's good to hear. I don't really feel like buying a replacement cam.
Mikey
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good time to upgrade the cam!
let me know if it's an option, there is a guy who builds speciatly performance diesel cams here in abbotsford, bc.
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good time to upgrade the cam!
let me know if it's an option, there is a guy who builds speciatly performance diesel cams here in abbotsford, bc.
What is the price we're looking at here and what performance gains are we talking about?
Mikey
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Really?
How much and what are the specs?? :? :?
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Just spoke with my mechanic, who I go through for the cam's. he said the best thing is to contact him with the year/engine size, mods etc on your vehicle and he will get you a price and some information.
[email protected]
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Just spoke with my mechanic, who I go through for the cam's. he said the best thing is to contact him with the year/engine size, mods etc on your vehicle and he will get you a price and some information.
[email protected]
I had my TDI cam done through that guy. Here's a before pic of the stock cam:
(http://malone.vwmark.com/tdi/part1_rebuild/05_small.jpg)
After (same cam):
(http://malone.vwmark.com/tdi/part1_rebuild/cam.jpg)
It's a regrind so the OEM core material is retained (better than some aftermarket cams with softer metal) and the price was very reasonable.
I haven't run the engine yet but I'm looking forward to it.
As for TDs, I don't know if they use a new cam or regrind the OEM version. It doesn't hurt to ask :)
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You could also talk to colt cams in Aldergrove. They do all of Piers Diesel Research cams as well as some tractor pullers, and normal things like race cars street cars ect...
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For future reference, the cam locking plate is not meant to hold the cam when loosening/tightening the bolt, it is for alignment only. Use a proper counterhold tool on the cam sprocket when torquing on the bolt and this will not happen.
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Yeah....I kinda figured that one out the hard way... :wink:
Like I said, this is the only time I didn't try the impact wrench first. And it will also be the last time.
Mikey
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Hrmm, Interesting. I would really like to get info/prices on the cam. My engine is a 1.6TD, engine code 1V.
Thanks,
Steve
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contact him yourself plz. [email protected]
Hrmm, Interesting. I would really like to get info/prices on the cam. My engine is a 1.6TD, engine code 1V.
Thanks,
Steve
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I shot him an email at the beginning of last week, still no word. Perhaps away for the holiday ? Do you have a number by chance ?
Thanks,
Steve
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For future reference, the cam locking plate is not meant to hold the cam when loosening/tightening the bolt, it is for alignment only. Use a proper counterhold tool on the cam sprocket when torquing on the bolt and this will not happen.
Actually, QuickTD, the cam locking plate is designed to hold the torque when tightening the cam sprocket bolt. Check out Bentley or other service manual for the recommended procedure for installing the timing belt and setting the cam timing, and you will see it does recommend tightening the cam pulley bolt while the locking plate is installed.
If you remove the cam locking plate before tightening the cam pulley bolt, it invites having the cam timing slip which is not good (based on my experience of having the cam timing slip 2 degrees when doing just this and trying to counterhold the cam/pulley some other way).
You are definitely correct that the locking plate is not supposed to be used to hold the torque when loosening the cam bolt. I guess for various reasons (IE: corrosion, static coefficient of friction greater than dynamic, etc) the torque required to loosen the bolt can be greater than the force to tighten the bolt.
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While the bentley manual may state that the cam locking tool should remain in place and take the torque of tightening the bolt, chances are good that you will break the cam if you do this. I've seen it happen many times. Some aftermarket manuals do suggest the use of a counterhold tool to avoid breaking the cam, though the bentley does not. It's ultimately your choice I guess...
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While the bentley manual may state that the cam locking tool should remain in place and take the torque of tightening the bolt, chances are good that you will break the cam if you do this. I've seen it happen many times. Some aftermarket manuals do suggest the use of a counterhold tool to avoid breaking the cam, though the bentley does not. It's ultimately your choice I guess...
I'll second this...
Whilst the Bentley is the best of the bibles; bibles can be wrong too!
If you use the slot as a resistance to torqueing then there is no going back after a mistake. If this slot is there for this purpose then at the bottom of the slot the machining will be radiused..If it finishes with sharp corners (I don't know this but I strongly suspect it is the case)Then that is not its purpose (leverslot)
Use slot to nip up pulley nut Clean pulley hole and cam taper with scouring powder... 'make like your valve grinding'... CLEAN OFF and leave dry. pulley will now grip cam with bolt little more than finger tight (but do use a spanner :wink: )Finish off with grips on cam shaft...
:idea: Rotate engine by hand a few times and recheck timing :idea:
:idea: Use feeler gauges packed in slot as well as timing bar for accuracy :idea:
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The slot can hold the required torque to tighten the cam bolt guys. It's not a whole lot... 35-ft lbs, IIRC. I don't believe that anyone following the Bentley procedure for tightening this bolt while using a torque wrench going only to 35 ft-lbs will break their cam slot. And after trying other methods of tightening without the cam slot locked, I found the timing moved during tightening. I will be sticking to the Bentley procedure.
I am in agreement with you guys that the cam locking tool should not be used when loosening the bolt.
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The slot can hold the required torque to tighten the cam bolt guys. It's not a whole lot... 35-ft lbs, IIRC. I don't believe that anyone following the Bentley procedure for tightening this bolt while using a torque wrench going only to 35 ft-lbs will break their cam slot. And after trying other methods of tightening without the cam slot locked, I found the timing moved during tightening. I will be sticking to the Bentley procedure.
I am in agreement with you guys that the cam locking tool should not be used when loosening the bolt.
While you're right in theory (practice actually ;o) It is still a fact that I've come across more people with a broken cam slot than people who've been hit by trees with rotten middles... There is the idea of fatigue and more commonly those torque wrenches with 'internal gubbins' can be so wrong that they're on a different planet. Those basic bar bending ones however, I find to be more consistant.
Judging by my stealerships price for heat shields goodness knows what they'd want for a cam :shock: It might be worth my while taking up 'breaking and entering' ..damn they never have the stock in anyway :lol: I'd have to order the stuff and then do a raid :twisted:
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Just done a quick calculation shoot me down if I'm wrong but...
35 lb ft when applied to two edges at 1/2 inch centres remember the timing lock bar is a ***e fit :shock: is (35x 12") / 1" * = 420lb force
*1" is 2 lots of 1/2"
Loaded on those sharp corners...
how deep is the slot ? I havent stared at it recently :wink: This is more leverage if the pressure is on the outer edge of the slot... which I think it is as the head casting will be pushing up andtwisting the bar...I feel more and more convinced as I write this... Picture wedging a jemmy in the end. :idea: These leverages would reduce if the timing bar was a tight fit :idea:
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While you're right in theory (practice actually ;o) It is still a fact that I've come across more people with a broken cam slot than people who've been hit by trees with rotten middles...
Nearly everytime I read one of your posts I nearly pi$$ myself laughing. Only a brit could come up with a bit like that... :lol:
Thank you for being a source of comic relief in my otherwise dull day of PLC programming...
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While you're right in theory (practice actually ;o) It is still a fact that I've come across more people with a broken cam slot than people who've been hit by trees with rotten middles...
Nearly everytime I read one of your posts I nearly pi$$ myself laughing. Only a brit could come up with a bit like that... :lol:
Thank you for being a source of comic relief in my otherwise dull day of PLC programming...
:shock: It takes a Canadian to find me funny; most GI's would be happy if I were an insect so that they could step on me :shock:
The thing is its very hard to go down to the local winebar and attract the flora by talking dirty when its diesel-dirt you're into;
so I'm trying to add color :wink:
:evil: The missus still doesnt see the attraction of diesel and mathematics :evil:
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The missus still doesnt see the attraction of diesel and mathematics
Odd, that. Seems to be the same the world over. Perhaps they all share the same brain?
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The missus still doesnt see the attraction of diesel and mathematics
Odd, that. Seems to be the same the world over. Perhaps they all share the same brain?
No, some just share a common hormone that seems to block logical thought. :roll:
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No, some just share a common hormone that seems to block logical thought. :roll:
I can't agree Mike
:twisted: I look at Mary and I just think multiple NAND gate :evil:
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:No, some just share a common hormone that seems to block logical thought. :roll:
I can't agree Mike
:twisted: I look at Mary and I just think multiple NAND gate :evil:
I'm not sure what you mean. I was simply referring to a lot of women (not my girlfriend) who are just irrational at times. No offense intended if that's what was understood. :D
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:No, some just share a common hormone that seems to block logical thought. :roll:
I can't agree Mike
:twisted: I look at Mary and I just think multiple NAND gate :evil:
HA!! Yay for digital logic. I knew that class would come in useful someday.
LOL!!!
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49