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General Information => General => Topic started by: moTthediesel on March 17, 2005, 07:37:44 am
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I bought a Quantum TD on the bay last year for $400. Intention was to use it for a engine donor for an "Ultimate Ecomomy Commuter" project by plugging it into a Porsche 924.
Never was able to find a good solid car here in oxidation country, and I found that said swap was no slam dunk, as the 924 used an old Audi based lump with the non-standard "5 cylinder" bell housing. :(
Now it so happens that I have a '65 356 coupe up on blocks in my barn, where it has been since I put it there in the fall of '82. It's hardly cherry, as I bought it in '75 for the princely sum of $600, with holes in it big enough to throw a cat through. I will spare the crowd here all the gory details involving many boxes of pop rivets, sheet metal liberated from discarded major appliances, and of course, tubs of bubbling bondo. Indeed, lets draw a veil of decency over the whole of my young "Porsche Years", the grenaded original "S" engine, the "Rustoleum" paint jobs, the VW bus engine swaps, the roll over in the manure pile, the outstanding warrants, etc.; none need be mentioned here.
As the father of two teenage (shudder) sons, and the husband of a lead footed wife, I have been under considerable pressure for years to "get the Porsche going". The other day my older boy was on my case again, but I told him with my current interest in bio-diesel, and our almost all diesel fleet of vehicals, I just have no interest in working on a mere gas powered car right now. So, of course, he said maybe we should put the Quantum motor in the 356.
My first reaction was like the worlds smartest man in "The Princess Bride" --"Inconceivable!"-- I said, but then I thought of the Kennedy Engineering adaptors for putting all kinds of engines onto type 1 trannys. Fitting a rad would be a challenge, but probably not insurmountable. While the 1.6TD would be heavier than the aircooled P motor, I don't think it would be enough to be a real problem.
The self-impressed twits who flock to Porsche ownership these days (and I certainly apologize to any that read this :wink: ) would, of course, be outraged, but that's only all the more reason to try it!
I told my crazy motorhead brother about it, and he said he thought it was a great idea, in fact, he was thinking about putting a VW diesel into his old Citron Traction Avant, - the one with the blown motor (yes, he has two, I told you he was crazy).
That SOB will stop at nothing to top me :!:
moT
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Well, I've seen aircooled (formerly) beetles with wankel engines, taurus SHO engines, corvair engines and of course, rabbit engines installed. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult to pop a 'rabbit' engine into your 356.
I say go for it.
I've never had the pleasure of having a brother, but if I did, I imagine the one-upping battles would be most intense. Hm.... come to think of it, maybe it's best I only have a sister!
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Reminds me of the Cummins 6.2 we stuffed into a `75 Camaro,... :roll: :roll:
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I love those cars. Is it a convertible speedster? (Images of Top Gun flashing...)
Porsche speeder body... VW turbo diesel power and reliability. Even better! Yet still 100% german so good to it's roots. Lovin' your idea!
Did you know that Porsche / VW had at one point prototyped and researched a diesel-powered version of their aircooled motor. I wish I had made a copy of the old magazine article a friend of mine had about it.
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Reminds me of the Cummins 6.2 we stuffed into a `75 Camaro,... :roll: :roll:
hehehe... I love you guys. All of you. hehee Good to know I'm not a lone diesel freak entity. :D
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The only air cooled diesel Porsche I've ever seen is a tractor. There's one sitting a guy's yard about 20 miles from my house. Every year or so I drop off my card to him, if I pester him enough, who knows?
moT
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Great idea! (love the cummins in the camaro too!) Before I bought the mark 2's, I was toying with finding something to put my 1.6TD in. I've got an 82 firebird sitting here (2.8l that blew replaced with a 400 small block), and kept thinking that the little diesel would work well in an older S10 if I could hook it to a rear wheel drive tranny. Then there's the 300zx dowm the road with the blown motor............................
My brother went through 2 porsche's , a 914 that he got rid of when my 'bird toasted him, and a 911 with some gawdawful huge fast air cooled 6 (not stock). love to see a diesel in a porsche!
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i'm looking for a suzuki samurai for a diesel swap. Probably will have to settle on a sidekick though. samurais are pretty rare around here.
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I love those cars. Is it a convertible speedster? (Images of Top Gun flashing...)
Porsche speeder body... VW turbo diesel power and reliability. Even better! Yet still 100% german so good to it's roots. Lovin' your idea!
Did you know that Porsche / VW had at one point prototyped and researched a diesel-powered version of their aircooled motor. I wish I had made a copy of the old magazine article a friend of mine had about it.
I have a similar article, it was an A/C twin of 28HP and was meant for military(WWII) use,
N.
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I haven't seen any commercial kit to do that swap. There are several companies that produce VW/something else adaptors, but they are intended to put the something else onto the (air cooled) V-Dub tranny, not the other way around.
Of course back in the day, stone age mechanics used simple flame cut plates to perform all kinds of crazy transplants. I once saw a Jowett Jupitor (seen any of those lately?) with a Vauxhall (of all things!) engine installed that way, :!: and this was not somewhere in Old Blighty, but right here in NNY. What was THAT guy smoking?
The trick, of course, is in the v. carefull layout of the drilled and tapped holes in the plate. Then one needs to address the thorny problems of clutch and starter motor as well. That's why the kits usually include a custom flywheel/ring gear as well as a machined plate.
Difficult? Sure!
But for someone who has figured out how to push his electric Rabbit around with a remote controled bio-diesel powered 1/2 Rabbit trailer kicker? We're talking slam dunk baby!
Cheers,
moT
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ive been thinking of swaps like that for a while now. but do u think a 1.6TD would be able to move around a 4x4 ranger too well? when i say that i mean like a raised one with 32's on it.
now to make things a little easyer, but probably too much more money for the little amount af work you lose would be to buy one of these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7960513556&category=46104&sspagename=WDVW
and a toyot 4x4 tranny and make that fit. other then that it looks like it'll have to be all custom. i've actually been looking for a 3.9L cummins for a older dakota or s10 swap.
keep me informed as how well that project comes along if you ever get it started
Mark
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Remember the Vega? (first small GM car).
Back in the day, (late 70's?0 I remember seeing an article in " HotRod " or maybe "Popular HotRodding" for a kit to get rid of the junk aluminum block four banger they came with and dropping in a gasser rabbit motor. Ringing any bells for anyone? Most of those cars came witha saginaw 4 gear, and all those parts would make putting a diesel into a small reardrive gm (or other) a lot easier. Wish I still had that article!
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I presume 'Cummins 6.2' above should read 'GM 6.2'...?
How about:
http://www.thedieselpage.com/readers/vet.htm 8)
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Well there are a couple of ways to make it work. First there is a comercially avalible adapter for toyota 4cyl trannies through acme adapters. So if you don't mind basterdising the Ford a little you could run a VW engine with a toyota transmission and transfercase. Your other option is to get a Volvo TD and tranny, and run a divorced t-case behind that. If not give Acme a call and mabey they can come up with another solution.
Sorry about the Hijack, back to the TD porsche Sorry I don't have any info there, but I am very intrested to see how it turns out.
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I presume 'Cummins 6.2' above should read 'GM 6.2'...?
How about:
http://www.thedieselpage.com/readers/vet.htm 8)
Nope.
The badge on the fender of the doner truck, an `84 Sierra Classic, says "Cummins 6.2" and not "GM 6.2".
GM has a history of doing this. Another example is my winter beater, an `87 GMC S-10. the original engine was an 1.9L Isuzu,...
:? :?
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How about a MB 240 engine/tranny? While not real powerful, those engines will run forever. Also, at least here in the rust belt, they are cheap and readily available from rust outs. And another thing, unlike the later Benz engines, there were many sold with standard trannys.
For a nice divorced t case, look to early Datsun/Nissan 4wd trucks, also plentiful and cheap. :D
moT
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How about a MB 240 engine/tranny? While not real powerful, those engines will run forever. Also, at least here in the rust belt, they are cheap and readily available from rust outs. And another thing, unlike the later Benz engines, there were many sold with standard trannys.
For a nice divorced t case, look to early Datsun/Nissan 4wd trucks, also plentiful and cheap. :D
moT
You must be psychic, man. As it happens, there`s a guy here(winnipeg, Manitoba) that has an older S-10 stretch cab who swapped an N/A Be
nz 5-cyl. It`s not a particularily neat swap but he`s been driving it for about 4 years now and he brews his own fuel as well. I`ll see if I can snap a pic of him one of these days,...
N.
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Northern RD;
Where are you from? Second some pics of swaps would be great.
I can get a hold of a Mazda B2200 cheap through a friend. Anyone have any ideas about a diesel swap for that? It seems to be hard to get a hold of diesel engines here. :?
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Northern RD;
Where are you from? Second some pics of swaps would be great.
I can get a hold of a Mazda B2200 cheap through a friend. Anyone have any ideas about a diesel swap for that? It seems to be hard to get a hold of diesel engines here. :?
Here in Winnipeg bud. I see the guy with the S-10 every now and again at the truck stop where I fill up. Next time I see `em I`ll ask about getting pics. Like I said it`s not a particularily sanitary swap but but it works and I`ve seen the truck driving around enough to get an idea of the relibilty
(9which seems pretty good).
N.
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This thread seems to have gotten a little off topic for the orignial porche, but while we're on it.....
Anyone got thoughts about putting a VW 1.6TD in an old subaru? The engine compartments the wrong shape (H-4 vs I4), and the tranny is unlike anything else in the world that I know of (longitudinal input front transaxle with a rear driveshaft as well). Unless maybe a quantuum synchro is like that? But there's room to move stuff around and I think it could be done. I started on this project, until the lack of a milling machine to make the bellhousing/engine adaptor finally stopped me. But when I get that....
I just like the old subaru's, and their engines last forever (with head gasket replacements) but I want a diesel. Sure the rabbit would be okay most the time, but there are the few days you want 4wd -- I woke up this April to 19" of fresh snow (Walk out the door. "Geeesh -- wonder which bump in the snow is my car.....?"). I just shoveled the windshield off, and drove away in the suby (okay, it was powdery snow).
I know it's blasphemy to put anything other than a subaru engine in a subaru, but that's why I'm not posting this to the subaru forum...
:wink:
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hook up a vw diesel to a syncro system from a G60 passat, throw that all in your vw of choice. would be tough, but likely not as difficult as fitting a diesel into the subaru.
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RE: VW watercooled into Suby.
I'm sure it could be done, but you're going to be on your own. Kennedy makes adaptors to fit Suby engines to aircooled trannys, but that's not going to help you a bit. A flame or plazma cut plate might well join the engine to bellhousing, but then you have starter and clutch issues to resolve.
It could make a nice ride for you though, I love Subys, we've owned six since we first bought a '77 Brat. Ideal size and weight for Dub diesel power, but certainly a major project!
If you do it, keep us posted 8)
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Actually, what I figured on doing was bolting the subaru flywheel to the VW pressure plate (minus the actual pressure plate portion). That worked okay. Then the whole subaru clutch could be used, as well as the subaru starter (which may or may not be strong enough to actually start it -- It's a gear reduction starter and 've moved the cars around with them before so it's pretty strong, but would there be enough rpms to fire the diesel?) The trick then is that the adaptor plate between the suby bell housing and VW transmission has to be a very specific thickness to make the clutch sit at the same position. And the other issue is that the bell housing on the subaru doesn't have a centering hole, like old American car bell housings did. It's just this weird rectangular molded thing, that you have to guess where the exaxt center of the shaft should be (or measure it off the subaru engine...)
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Actually, what I figured on doing was bolting the subaru flywheel to the VW pressure plate (minus the actual pressure plate portion). That worked okay. Then the whole subaru clutch could be used, as well as the subaru starter
:idea: That's a great idea! :idea:
Laying out the adaptor plate would be tricky, but it could be done. You would have some control of the in-and-out position of the flywheel by the thickness of the plate, you could double it too if need be. It would be a great help if you could find drawings of the Suby engine hole pattern somewhere. I know I've found those kind of drawnings for water cooled VW's, so it's worth while looking. I've always found it much harder to take accurite measurements off an item then it is to layout.
Then it's "JUST" a matter of layout blue, dividers, and center punches. A good sensitive drill press should be all you would need for major tools. That and a torch to cut away the unneeded metal after you've made your holes.
I wouldn't be too concerned about that gear starter getting it done, slightly bigger versions of those Japanese reduction gear starters are used on both my 3.4L Toyota diesel and my 5.9L Cummins. I know a guy who runs a starter/alternator rebuild shop, and he says Cummins uses those because they are simply the best starters in the world.
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heres an odd one. my dads got a 914 with a 1.8 aircooled motor. my dad lugs the piss out of the motor because he grew up with america v8's which make all their torque at 1200rpm. the aircooled motor cant handle low rpm's, it gets its air from the spinning fan and running around at 1200rpm's it doesnt get enough cooling for the engines load so he constantly overheats it.
he finally blows the engine, and now wants to swap in a turbo diesel vw into it.
me, i just want to convert my gasoline automatic 84 rabbit over to a mmanual transmission diesel, and later on swap to a turbo diesel when i find one.
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I had actually mostly given up because it just seemed a little too difficult for now, but I'm getting more excited about it.
Ooops. I used my rebuilt 1.6 in the GTI/rabbit now, so I'd new another VW engine...
Actually, this leads me to my question on sourcing turbo VW's. Is there any easier way to get the 1.6TD's than just hope to find a junked Quantum? It seems like the 1.6's are pretty common (compared to just about any other diesel engine in the US), but the turbo versions seem hard to come by in the US. Is there anywhere we could import a batch from maybe? Or do they still sell them as industrial engines maybe? I imagine this has probably been gone over in this forum a zillion times, but I'll ask anyway.
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I put a thread on one of the subaru forums -- guess what. There seem to be alot of subaru fans out there that would kill to have a diesel subaru.
if you want to take a look at it
http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34141
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Somebody mentioned a mazda truck swap - my friend has a b2000 with a blown motor; does anyone know if a swap can be done? It would give me a caddy with legroom...
Greg
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Hmmmm. I replied to this a few days ago, but it seems to have eaten my reply. Sor here goes again.
Mazda/perkins made a 2.2 liter diesel for a while in the early 80's that may or may not be a direct bolt up to the B2000 gas transmission. If you could get the factory service manual for this it might give some insight on whether they were compatible.
Other options might be to get a VW engine and put it in there. It's a bit heavier truck than the caddy, so you'd probably want a turbo for sure. I was going to put a VW 1.6 in a B1800/Ford Courier, but then got the Mitzi truck instead.
And you can still get new Nissan diesel 2.0 or 2.5 liter engines (used industrially), which are a direct replacement in the 720 hardbody pickup, from what I have heard. They rotate the other way, so you have to flip the rear axle around to drive forward instead of backwards... But that might be an option. You also might be able to find a drivetrain from a wrecked toyota diesel pickup to transplant in there.