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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: ilomax on November 25, 2007, 03:00:34 pm
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1.5L Diesel in a 1984 Rabbit (I know, wrong engine. I thank the PO for that one)
I'm wondering if the IP not being timed correctly (It's close, but haven't put a dial on it) would make for hard cold starts and rough cold idle.
Some other info:
-Glow plugs work fine (Checked last night)
-No bubbles in the fuel line
-New block heater (Gets nice and toasty)
-Running B50 Biodiesel (First Tank, maybe 80 miles into it)
-It has been in the mid 30s, temperature wise.
-After the initial start, starts fine the rest of the day
-Does have a rough cold idle
-I haven't check the injector breaking point or spray
It's giving me all the symptoms of bad glow plugs, but it's not.
Any ideas?
Thanks all!
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Biodiesel at 50% when it is in the 30's will not particularly want to start, and won't run very well until it gets warmed up. I'd drop the % down for the winter.
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Biodiesel at 50% when it is in the 30's will not particularly want to start, and won't run very well until it gets warmed up. I'd drop the % down for the winter.
So, let me get some questions out of the way about Bio. 50% won't gel up around 30 deg. temps, but it'll run like crap?
I talked to the hippie guy at the bio pump and he didn't say anything about it running like poo. He just said that they didn't sell B100 in the colder months because it gelled up.
Is that in every diesel or is it just in the older diesel engines?
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Does your pump leak? Check for air bubbles in the clear line before the injection pump. Is the fuel filter fairly new?
Andrew
-New fuel filter (Probably 3 weeks old. One week with the bio and maybe 80 miles)
-No air bubbles in the clear line
-Surprisingly, the pump does not leak (Cleanest part of the whole car). Nice and dry.
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Does your pump leak? Check for air bubbles in the clear line before the injection pump. Is the fuel filter fairly new?
Andrew
sounds to me like there is a small enough leak so that overnight the pump loses enough prime to make starting difficult. when you start it it regains prime, and keeps it for a while...
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Andrew[/quote]
sounds to me like there is a small enough leak so that overnight the pump loses enough prime to make starting difficult. when you start it it regains prime, and keeps it for a while...[/quote]
See, thats what I would think, but the clear line doesn't show any air and there isn't any leaks around the IP.
I'm sure if I keep running a high % of bio that I'll see leaks.
I want to get back to the B50 that I'm running... Will that make it hard to start in the mid 30 deg. temps and run rough till it's warm?
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I'll qualify my post. With my tired (100k) engine, and injectors which most certainly need to be rebuilt, I notice a difference with bio in colder weather. Even in warmer weather before I put new glow plugs in, higher concentrations of biodiesel were harder to start. I happen to love the stuff and believe in it. I also believe I need to rebuild my engine. :)
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Thanks alot for your input.
This is about as cold as it gets here, I only have to worry about it for a month or two.
I should be able to handle it till I have the time to rebuild and put a 1.6 back in the rabbit.
Any other input?
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low compression can easily be a factor too. Cold weather will bring this terrible monster rearing its head. Have you comp tested it?
Oh and yeah, dont get me started on B100 in 35 degree weather. I ran that in my Vanagon and barely made it to work and after I got there I had to change both filters and heat gun the fuel tank for an hour.
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No comp test yet.
I'll figure that out when I pop test the injectors.
The car started and ran fine before I put in the B50.
Really big thanks for the input.
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Just to give a little up date...
Temperatures got out of the 30s and is now in the mid 40s.
Car starts much...MUCH... easier.
Recap: Car started like poo and at some times didn't start till the battery died (Probably shortened the life of the starter).
I was running B50 and that seemed to be the issue.
Pump timing still not 100% correct, so there is still room for improvement.
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Another update.
I went and got an additive (Stanadyne) for the tank of B50 from a great place in town, Diesel Injection Services.
Also, went and got new battery cables (2 Gauge).
The old crappy battery cables were a starting issue as well.
Can't believe I didn't think of that before.
Next is to get some lighter weight oil and do ANOTHER oil change.
Then I'm going to get the pump timed.
Car starts quite nice now.
We'll see how she does in the AM.
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Morning update:
With the new battery cables, fresh connections to the glow plug wires and the car plugged in (Just to be safe), it started quicker and easier than ever.
It even ran a little smoother too while cold.
I'm starting to think my issue was the engine not turning over quick enough and the glow plug wires not having a good connection.
It may of also been the additive that I put in, as well.
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So, it's official. It was the battery cables and the power wires to the glow plugs.
The whole new set up made everything dandy.
My new problem was going home and one of the coolant lines decided it didn't want to stay together and sprung a leak.
Luckily I was about a mile away from home.
I found some random wire in the car, made the fan run without the fan switch and had the radiator cap loose so it didn't build pressure.
Made it home no problem.
All new radiator hoses for me!
Should last me a couple more days until something new.
I can see how crazy these cars would make people if they didn't know how to work on them and had to take it to a shop each time.
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I can see how crazy these cars would make people if they didn't know how to work on them and had to take it to a shop each time.
Crazy and POOR :lol:
I have fond memories of my grandfather making us chew gum, then sticking it onto the leaking hoses on his Lea-Francis Tourer with that old cloth-backed dielectric tape nearly every time we went out in it :lol: but it did the job and we always got home!
I'll have to take a couple of photos of what I did to fix the broken gears on the diverter baffle for the dash/foot-well air ducts on my Flair2. Amazing how a piece of coat-hanger wire can save you a bundle of cash!
Have a warm and happy winter!
Philip.
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I'm sure if I keep running a high % of bio that I'll see leaks.
I ran over 10,000km on B100 last summer, no leaks and no problems. Shortly after that, the fuel filter started getting restrictive, so I replaced it with the one that I keep in the trunk for just such an occasion. As far as biodiesel's gel points:
Check out the following link for the basic performances of the vegetable oil, the methyl ester (Methanol biodiesel, most common by far) and the ethyl ester (Ethanol biodiesel, very rare). (Vegetable Oil / Biodiesel Characteristic Charts (http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#oils_esters))You can fairly easily make some inferences about the performance of these when mixed with diesel #1
or #2, depending which you're using at a given time. Basically, if you're mixing 50-50, split the temperature differential between the cloud points / pour points / gel points two fuels for a reasonable guess at when you're going to be euchred if you're running on one or the other. However, the thing to bear in mind is that when you blend, you're making a mechanical combination, not a chemical mix. The upshot of that is that you don't perfectly combine the chemical characteristics of the fuel, so you could wind up with particles of frozen/gelled biodiesel in your perfectly liquid petrodiesel. Conversely, depending on the mix, you might have near-perfect combination and it's all good - just important to take those kinds of things into consideration. I run B100 as much as I can, but I do avoid it during the particularly low temperatures for the reasons mentioned here.
Glad you've got everything back up and running, and that you're loving the biodiesel!
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Thats for the very detailed post.
I really appreciate all the input.
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Soooo, one more update. I hope all these updates will help people diagnose issues.
I did a scary test. I let the car sit over night and it easily got below 40 deg. (It's actually snowing as I type this) and I didn't plug the car in.
I get in this morning after a COLD night and the first crank does nothing, just turns over...
Damn!
Second crank does nothing, the car turns over but doesn't catch.
DAMN IT!
Third crank, the little rabbit comes to life....Bwaaa haaa haaa.
So, I have 95% of the issue cured.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the next 5% to make it perfect will be the pump timing.
Ohh ya, and I notice a loss in MPG running Bio.