VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: boosted_diesel_84 on November 22, 2007, 09:04:45 am
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hello, and happy thanksgiving! i am trying to time my pump today after putting a new belt on, cam ,crank and pump are all lined up perfectly, i am going by my bently for checking and adjusting pump timing, but i am confused, it wants me to screw the dial indicator in until 2.5 mm, which i did with motor on TDC, i turned it counter clockwise like it said, then i turned it back clockwise until TDC, but in my book it now says readjust dial indicator so you can zero it w/ a 1mm preload, what does this mean? i thought i was susposed to have 2.5mm on it? i am confused,i am sure timing is off, because i bought the car from a bunch of hillbillies that messed with it that shouldnt have, and it runs rough at idle and smokes whiteish gray at start up the car in question is a 82 rabbit, i would appreciate any help, thanks!
-Jack-
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Preload to approx 2.5mm at TDC, turn engine counter-clockwise until needle stops moving. Zero needle, rotate to TDC, lock pump sprocket and cam. Rotate pump for desired reading and tighten bolts.
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thanks for the quick reply, i will go out and try this now, thanks!
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ok, just tried with no luck, my dial indicator is standard units, and 2.5 mm converts to .0984, so i put the dial just before 1 whole turn, locked it in place, turned motor back,zeroed gauge, then foreward to TDC, and it never moved, what am i doing wrong, sorry, this is my first time, thanks for help!
-Jack-
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ok i tried it a few more times, and now it moved, from the zero it went to .01 in. on TDC which is .254 mm, so i need to adjust my pump? do these numbers even sound right to anyone? because dont i want 1mm +/- .2mm? thanks for any help!
-Jack-
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By zero, did you just rotate the dial to 0 or slide the gauge out until it reached 0? It basically needs some preload on it with the dial rotated to read zero so that it has room for movement.
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i just rotated dial to zero
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ive tried preload of 2.5mm on TDC, rotate back, but the dial never goes down, it just stays where its at, then i zeroed it, and put it foreward to TDC, and only once in 5 tries did it move off of zero, and it went up to .010 in
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ok i tried it a few more times, and now it moved, from the zero it went to .01 in. on TDC which is .254 mm, so i need to adjust my pump? do these numbers even sound right to anyone? because dont i want 1mm +/- .2mm? thanks for any help!
-Jack-
You want approx .040-.041"
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From TDC, it should go down when the engine is rotated CCW. If not, something is sticking or the pin for your dial gauge isn't long enough for some reason, but if you are able to pre-load it, that doesn't sound like the problem.
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ok, just tried again, this may have something to do with it, the set screw on the bar that threads into the pump, for it to hold on to the dial indicator shaft that is fixed on dial, it must be in so far that the dial goes around 3 times! otherwise the set screw pushes on the indicator shaft and wont allow it to move. how can i get around this to make it work? can i have that much more preload, the kit i have is susposed to be for vw diesels.
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You can have a lot more pre-load, that is fine. The pre-load is just to make sure there is enough movement in the gauge so it doesn't bottom out.
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ok, cool, i will go try again for the 8th time, lol. thanks for the help!
-Jack-
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ok it is finally working, timing is off, its at .034 in. and it needs to be around .040 in. correct? i loosened all 4 bolts, now do i push the pump toward radiator or engine, and do this by hand or what? because it seems like it doesnt have to move much and i would hate to go too far and mess it up worse. thanks!
-Jack-
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Just turn it until the dial goes up to .040". It doesn't take much movement. I don't remember which way to turn it, but if it goes down, turn it the other way.
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If for some reason you can't move it far enough, then you will need to move the belt 1 tooth on the sprocket.
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it moved quite a bit, but i think i finally got it now, it starts a lot easier, and runs smoother, i am gonna go for a drive now, and let you know how it is, but thanks to all for the help, i appreciate it, this is a great forum that helps everyone including dumb asses like me, lol.
-Jack-
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well it gets up to speed a lot quicker, especially 0-40 is way faster, but it tops out at 68 mph, and i have to flog it thru third then hit forth quick to get there, some of it may be due to no exhaust, its open from the downpipe, until next week when it goes to muffler shop, also i am running stock fuel. but, hey, thanks for the help!
-Jack-
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hate to dig up this old thread, but i'm trying to set my timing with a guage in inches too.
Everything is fine right up until zeroing the guage. I zero the guage and then start going clockwise twoards tdc but way before i get there the big needle makes a complete turn clockwise(which would be more than double too muc right) then the needle starts moving counterclockwise before i hit tdc. Is this normal? should i just keep turning clockwise untill tdc then note the timing? It seems odd that the little movement it took from tdc to find the lowest part of the pump stroke was not very far. Yet when i zero it out it goes past .100 of an inch?
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Nope, doesn't sound normal to me.
Are you sure you are starting at TDC for #1:
- crank at TDC: timing mark on the flywheel aligned with pointer
- cam at TDC for #1: both lobes of #1 up, cam locked with a locking plate
- pump at TDC for #1: pin locked in sprocket
From there its:
1) crankshaft counterclockwise 1/8 or a turn or so until the gauge stops moving
2) zero the gauge
3) crankshaft clockwise until exactly TDC and read the timing value 0.039" = 1.00mm
Here's some pictures that may help:
http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28
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yup i lined up the flywheel and installed the lock pin in the pump gear. Didn't lock out the cam.
I had just put the timing belt on and set the timing with locking the cam,pump lining up marks about a month ago.
I thought i could bypass locking the cam as when i set the t belt all was good. When the flywheel marks are lined up the lock pin in the pump goes right in.
From starting at zero going back to tdc should it take this whole time for the dial guage to go to full advance?
I still can't see why it would make a complete turn around the clock.
I tried it many times to make sure i was at the lowest point on the pump stroke and it was. I can't see why the dial indicator would move COUNTER CLOCKWISE while turning the engine clockwise.
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Hmmmmm..... strange.
It really sounds like you are one or more teeth out on the IP sprocket... even with the pump fully advanced (pushed all the way towards the block) I'd be surprised if you would get more than 2 mm (0.08ish ") during the clockwise rotation between the dead spot (where you zero the gauge) and TDC.
The usual advice here is to confirm your IP sprocket is in the right place... ie.. there's a key in the keyway on the IP shaft ??
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i don't think it can be a tooth off because
with the engine running you can push the pump all the way against the injectors and it clatters like crazy and if you back it off physically twoards the rad it retards it enough so it will hardly run. If you back it off untill it idles poorly then move it slightly twoards the injectors it runs fine. Smooth idle and when you pull the handle out it clatters a bit. Starts fine cold, good power.
If i was off a tooth on the pump i'd think it would be all the way either can't advance the pump enough or can't retard it enough. As i said previously when the flywheel marks are lined up the locking pin fits in place on the ip sprocket.
or else the dial indicator is junk. :?
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or else the dial indicator is junk. :?
Starting to sound possible... perhaps it's time to borrow a second gauge as a second opinion ??
The engine behaviour certainly sounds like you're in the right timing neighbourhood.