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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Mk2Fanatic on October 31, 2007, 04:18:53 pm
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I'm starting with a 1.9 AAZ block:
ARP fasteners throughout
K26/K27 hybrid
A modded G60 for this application
shotpeened rods
lightened and balanced crank
autotech 8VTitanium locks and retainers
hoping to go with a stage 3 PP head port, IDI cam and Downpipe, as well as a Giles pump
What else would you reccomend for that kind of redline. Will be mated to an 02a Diesel trans with a tdi 5th, 4 puck clutch, and 12lb flywheel.
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instead of wasting time with the aaz rods got to a pump deuse conecting rod much stronger and they dont have a massive weight hanging off of them like the aaz
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Sylvester,
did you consider lightening up the flywheel? that should help!
also put it in a light weight round headlight caddy :lol:
thanks Duane
ahh i see you got a 12lb then!
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a giles pump :twisted:
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g60 with a red line of 6000 wont last long if its spinning to make more than 1.2/1.3 bar.-..
for that red line i would go turbo.
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g60 with a red line of 6000 wont last long if its spinning to make more than 1.2/1.3 bar.-..
for that red line i would go turbo.
The G60 will be running a stock pulley, good to 6200rpm, mainly to help make good torque of the line. Our under 2L diesels can use alll the help on the bbottom they can get. The k26/k27 hybrid turbo is for the high rpm power...
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1) Get some red tape, they make a special tape just for this purpose (http://tinyurl.com/386byc), or Any gubment agency office near you should have plenty. They will give it to you for free, just fill out the proper forms.
2) Sit in the driver seat and locate your instrument cluster.
3) Locate the tachometer.
4) Locate the position that represents 6,000 RPMs
5) Place red tape on cluster about 6,000 RPM indicator
6) Enjoy your new 6,000 RPM Red line.
Sorry, :lol: Couldn't resist.....
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I'd say your AAZ rods are the weak point. Just using stock ALH rods would be strong enough, shotpeened even better. At 6000 rpm's, the bottom end is not what I would be worrying about, it'd be the injection pump. :)
Brendan
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In my case the injection pump was the biggest limitation for max. RPM. Giles once said he has some ideas to make fueling work at 6k-7k RPM though. Definitely talk to him.
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with stock pulley dont expect great boost at low rpm...
i now cuz i have one :wink:
now running a 68mm and its a night/day diference...
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would be nice to have a clutched pulley to disable the supercharger while the turbo is kicking in
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In my case the injection pump was the biggest limitation for max. RPM. Giles once said he has some ideas to make fueling work at 6k-7k RPM though. Definitely talk to him.
On mine he said it had no rpm cut off and twice the normal fuel capability. 9mm . Is that what you had?
Balance the whole rotating assembly.
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I did have Giles 9mm "Stage 4" but the fuel started cutting off around 5,250 RPM due to pump camplate float. Maybe that changed now as my pump was built more than a year ago.
The HP was still climbing right until 5,250 RPM where I felt a sudden loss in power.
In addition to intake porting, a decent cam, and a larger turbo (IMO the GT20 I had was too small), with the fueling fix I believe it won't have problems building more HP to 5,500 RPM or maybe even beyond.
A 6,000 RPM redline will be usable for ~6k to 5k RPM shifts if the peak's at 5.5k RPM.
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I'd say your AAZ rods are the weak point. Just using stock ALH rods would be strong enough, shotpeened even better. At 6000 rpm's, the bottom end is not what I would be worrying about, it'd be the injection pump. :)
Brendan
What about ABA gas rods? are they the same size as the 1.9 td rods. I know the ABA gas rods are 159mm center to center and obviously use the same bearings. anyone know the wrist pin diameter off hand? If they are close I can get a set of eagles that have low miles on them for cheap.
As for pump mods, I've talk to Giles a couple times about pump work. That's all after christmas stuff. I've read this post for ideas on piston mods http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=630&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=high+rpm&start=0
I have both a 10mm and 11mm head that will go with the pump when I send it to giles. Any injector recommendations? I have a set of merc 300td injectors and a set of GTD injectors.
As for the clutched pulley idea I'm wondering if it's possible to use something similar to an A/C compressor clutch that is controlled electronically based on rpm range, say 1000-3000rpm when the turbo then takes over boost to redline.
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For higher rpm you want a 1.6 L crankshaft,1.6 camplate and 9mm plunger/head!
The 1.9 crank and camplate limit rpm with the 1.9 and with a bigger (10-12mm) plunger/head it only makers it worse.9mm will make lots more fuel than the engine can take anyhow.
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For higher rpm you want a 1.6 L crankshaft,1.6 camplate and 9mm plunger/head!
The 1.9 crank and camplate limit rpm with the 1.9 and with a bigger (10-12mm) plunger/head it only makers it worse.9mm will make lots more fuel than the engine can take anyhow.
Is it because of rod ratio, or because the stroke is getting longer and affecting the revability of the motor?
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The 1.9 engine has a longer stroke and this is the main restriction for higher reving when compared to the 1.6 same thing with the different camplates.However what you loose in revability with the 1.9 you will still benifit from the higher torque and larger displacment IMO.1.9's can be built to perfom well with the limiting factor to both engines being the head and keeping it on the block! As long as you dont plan on making any more power than than a k24,t3 or GT20 can make then you might be ok if your lucky.With the IDI's higher CR and weaker head than the TDI we can't make as much power without issues unfortunately :cry:.
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The 1.9 engine has a longer stroke and this is the main restriction for higher reving when compared to the 1.6 same thing with the different camplates.However what you loose in revability with the 1.9 you will still benifit from the higher torque and larger displacment IMO.1.9's can be built to perfom well with the limiting factor to both engines being the head and keeping it on the block! As long as you dont plan on making any more power than than a k24,t3 or GT20 can make then you might be ok if your lucky.With the IDI's higher CR and weaker head than the TDI we can't make as much power without issues unfortunately :cry:.
My k26/k27 hybrid turbo on a gas engine was good for 325hp (porsche 968 3.0L) it has the ability to do 25psi according to Turbonetics. If I drop compression to 17-18:1 would I be able to push the HP higher with O-ringing and ARP Studs? What about as suggested using the 1.6 crank to produce a 1715cc engine? Or the ABA gas rods as I've measured both and they are the same length as the AAZ rods? Even with port work by PP and one of their idi cams, you don't believe I can push further than what a gt20 is able to produce?
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I'm still trying to get mine figured out but we will be using 14mm head studs.If you use the 1.6 crank in the 1.9 block you will need custom made rods.The gasser rods will likely have smaller wrist pin dia than the diesel so they probably won't work.150 + hp means you need a better than stock intake manifold as well.Lowering the compression effectively on the IDI is much more indepth than loweing the compression on the TDI.
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Pauter has rods for the 1.6td and would probably make you custom ones for a 1.7 L combo.
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/vw-rods.html
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i think i was making rougly 170 crank hp with an all 1.6 engine and a k24 with arp studs everywere and there was no chance in hell that i could keep the head down. im goin to try a couple more things first but i will eventually go to tdi....
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170hp from internally stock 1,6 is piece of cake. Stock manifolds are ok, K24 is too small for that.
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170hp from internally stock 1,6 is piece of cake. Stock manifolds are ok, K24 is too small for that.
Really?! Do you have any head gasket problems? How high are you running your RPM's to?
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170hp from internally stock 1,6 is piece of cake. Stock manifolds are ok, K24 is too small for that.
Really?! Do you have any head gasket problems? How high are you running your RPM's to?
Didnīt mean my engine is stock :lol: I had peak 223hp@4700, 183hp@5800 then drops. No gasket problems, using elring metal with vht copper gasket and ARPs.
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dont know how you do it. I just cant keep it from lifting also Andy2 is having the same problem.... Do you mind sharing some specs on your setup? and 170 crank is an estimate i G teched my car at 134 net hp.
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also my engine is also very far from stock but still had just the 1.6 cyl head ported like crazy.
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dont know how you do it. I just cant keep it from lifting also Andy2 is having the same problem.... Do you mind sharing some specs on your setup? and 170 crank is an estimate i G teched my car at 134 net hp.
I donīt know how you guys do it :) I donīt use anything special to prevent it. When I had ~170hp (gtech 140hp, 151whp at dyno) I had stock 1,6 gasket glued with stock stretch bolts. Had no problems with it too, cracked head first :lol: Had vnt20@1,9bar at the time.
Specs are here (http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=246&start=225), I just changed my username.
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i bet you better go for a big vnt turbo, Audi80 have proven it, 199hp on the wheels in a 1600cc and a vnt23.
i dont try to sell my stuff or so, but if you want big power, go for something like that, i bet you can reach 250hp with a vnt25, on a 1.9 this should still spool.
i did this and it works nice, alltough, till now i havent been over 1bar becouse my water-intercooler is not connected.
Greetz, Benjamin
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How do you get a big turbo like that on an 1600 without it surging like crazy? I 've been searching to put a tiny vnt 17 on my 1600td but according to the diagram it will surge a lot before 3000rpm. How do you people fix this? Sorry for my maybe dumb question but i'm still a beginner in the exciting world of engine modding;)
Grts Ronald
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welcome neighbour. :wink:
i realy think a vnt17 wouldnt surge on a 1.6 if you dont let it spool to much under 2000a1500. read the report about libbybapa his vnt17 project.
the hardest part is not building on the turbo, but have the pump settings good
Greetz, Benjamin
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How do you get a big turbo like that on an 1600 without it surging like crazy?
By building proper vanes control I gues.
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How do you get a big turbo like that on an 1600 without it surging like crazy?
By building proper vanes control I gues.
So, for example, you put a nice vnt 20 or something similar on the 1.6. Surge will occur until 3000 rpm. With the proper vane control you could fix this,but then you wouldn't have any or very little boost(read power) until 3000 rpm. What's the use then of putting a vnt? Because now i have a K24, and i find it kind annoying that is spools up at 3000rpm. And i want to put a vnt turbo for power @low revs!
Grts Ronald
P.S: Benjamin,from wich area are you?