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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: mtnbob on October 13, 2007, 07:38:43 pm
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Replaced timing belt, water pump and injector pump, now getting blow back. Mechanic says that I need a ring job and that the car must have been run hot. Car only has 112,000 miles on it. Oil coming out at the top of the dipstick when running. Is this possible? Any other suggestions would be appreciated. I have it scheduled for the rings and new gaskets in a week. I'm in too deep to stop now lol.
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That is a common symptom of a car with blowby. You can put an elephant hose on it but it will still smoke. A T in the line that goes from the air cleaner to valve cover.
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oil coming from the dipstick tube... sounds like the gasket in there is shot maybe. 1.9's and TDI's have a nice pan vent to vent those gases to the valve cover breather.
from what you've changed, you should not be getting more blowby than before, unless you've tuned up the pump and in which case, will give you more blowby (running higher than 10 psi will obviously give more blowby)
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Check the crank case breather for restrictions. You may want to clean out the mesh filter thing in the top of the valve cover.
If you have a cam cover try running the engine with the oil filler cap removed and see if the oil leaking slows or stops.
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i did run it hot a little bit when the radiator hose blew, but i didn't think it was too bad. before it got the timing belt, injection pump and water pump replaced, i was getting the oil pressure light coming on from time to time so there might have been problems before. I trust the mechanic. he is old school and honest. he said that to do the rings, head gasket, some other pan gasket, and to check the cylider walls, would set me back around $500. does that sound high,low, or about right? Any questions i should ask?
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that sounds low... what kind of rings is he putting in?
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Like i said he is old school 8). He took out my unremoveable(by me) crank pulley bolts,water pump bolts, replaced my timing belt, water pump, valve cover gasket, then after the engine was back together had to go back in and replace the injection pump(giles pump) adjust the valves, and seal the dipstick. I supplied the parts. He only charged me $250 for that, which seemed more than reasonable. He is a retired(lol) vw mechanic.
What should I ask him about the rings?
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goetz rings are probably the best. depending on the amount of wear the engine has (oval cylinders) i would consider getting total seal rings. they reduce the blowby to practically nil! plus since they compensate for ring gap from wear, they will keep that blowby away for many many years down the road. it all depends on how long you wish to keep the motor.
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mechanic said that cylinder walls should be ok, but if cylinders are oval, the engine will have to come out to be bored. where would i find the rings you mention?
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www.totalseal.com for the total seals.
myke_w on this forum can get you the goetz rings for around $100 or so? (worth it!)
even if the cyl's are oval it will still run ok. it all depends on what you're after, and how much coin you have. if you want to keep it for a long time, then bore if it needs, and go total seal if you have the coin. in conjunction with Elf oils, that engine will last you very long. possibly in more than one car? :lol:
the rings cost me in total $250 cdn by the time everything was said and done (had to bend over for UPS $40 customs fee...) what i did was have myke_w send the rings straight to total seal for me, which was cool! saved me having to do it.
everyone using total seals report no blowby at all, just air moving from the crankcase. i can't wait to get my mTDI running!!!
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i plan on keeping my golf for awhile since i just bought a ip from giles. I don't see too many sources for rings. one source for goetz rings was about $18 a set. I sent a pm to myke_w
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If you want t o get away with out of round cylinders for a while, try to find some cast rings. they won't last quite as long, btu they do a better job of conforming to worn cylinders/pistons.
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Seeing as you are digging into the motor, I would suggest that most of your blowby is probably coming from the valve guide excessive clearance as the mileage is not significant to wear a set of rings. A leakdown test of the cylinders would be a good diagnostic procedure before the head comes off. With what sounds like resonable compression my money is on valve guides. They are bronze giving only a limited life compared to other manufacturers which are using cast iron or steel guides lasting two or three times that of bronze. Check it out first. You could save some money and aggravation.
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I mentioned what you said to my mechanic. He said he was convinced it was the rings at the very least. Said with the oil cap off that it was like a blow dryer. Asked him if he checked compression and he said no. We will see. :shock:
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If you are going to have the motor apart then replacing the rings is a good idea. Remember though that on the TD model, the intake guides as well as the exhaust guides are pressurised with the resulting pressure escaping via the crankcase ventilation system. At least when the head is off pull the valves to check the guide to stem diameters for clearance. Then you can say that there will be no questionable areas not inspected.
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Well I went to see the Golf today. It started right up, but after a few minutes, started pushing oil out of the top of the dipstick. When i took off the oil fill cap it was like a smokey blow dryer. Mechanic said he blew out the ventilation hoses. He said that it was not normal for a diesel to be building up pressure there, that it must be the rings. I mentioned the valve guides to him, and he said it wouldn't hurt to do those also when the head was off, but that wouldn't cause the problem. Any input?
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I am reading your previous posts here and it looks like you had a serious overheating problem. It is likely that you have done some ring/bore damage if it was extremely hot for a period of time. I believe that the rings will lose their spring like nature so will not grip the bore as tightly as before. The bores may be seriously glazed with cooked oil as well as the piston ring lands gummed with cooked oil. I think that you have a mess on your hands. Trust your mechanic to help you through this one.
The only other possibility that goes through my mind is seriously gummed and coked ring lands that have gripped the rings not allowing them to expand fully. The overheating may have caused this. I haven't found a chemical yet that would free that material from the lands so you are still looking at pulling the piston assemblies to scrape out the crud from the lands. If you did overheat the motor a head gasket replacement will not be far off as that tends to precipitate failure. As I said before give it to your mechanic to fix. Pay the shot and tell yourself to never drive another motor when too hot.
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Thanks you are probably right and it is line at his shop right now. I'm getting rings, a head gasket, and some other gasket he mentioned. I really didn't think I ran it that hot but I'm not sure how sensitive the engine is to overheating. It did hit red a few times but not for too long. I was stranded in the middle of nowhere and kept running it for a few minutes till it got hot then coasting and pulling over till it cooled off some. Looking back I should have parked it and hitched hiked. Now I just have to hope that I didn't hurt the cylinders :shock:
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What is the age of the car? The reason I ask is that with that low a mileage is it possible that it has had a replacement motor at some time in the past? Do you think that the instrument cluster has been changed out or the vehicle run with the speedometer disconnected? A low mileage motor could be seriously coked with short hop driving and a motor that never got warmed up all that much. Conversely a high mileage motor could simply be beat. You won't know until you get inside. I seriously doubt that the bores are damaged on an engine with that few miles if that is the case.
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i'm pretty confident in the miles. the car sat for almost 7 years, and i have maint records in the glovebox. The car has an honest 112,000 miles or so on it right now. I have been slowly replacing things that dryrotted, hoses, belts, tires, etc. I got the car because the former owner couldn't get it running after it sat so long. It is an 86 Golf 4 door and the body is in great shape for its age, southern car :D
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My most recent driver, an 87 Golf TD, had sat for close to 10 years. The same deal as yours without the the overheating, it had a severe case of blowby. The ring lands were heavily gummed and coked. It got new rings as a matter of course but when I pulled the piston assemblies it took several days of scraping, alternately soaking in carburetor cleaner, to free the crud. I believe that the rings were not working properly because of all the interfering coke. Maybe it is due to poorer oils of past or maybe just a reaction of time and old oil?
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mine is a N/A 1.6 8)