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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: clbanman on October 01, 2007, 06:27:30 am
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In the last three or four days I have noticed a difference in my clutch pedal feel. The clutch is not slipping and will fully disengage, but when I push the pedal down, I am getting increased resistance just at about the point where the clutch fully disengages. I can still push the pedal down further, but there is definitely something going on. Any ideas on what to look for first? Would this possibly be a frayed clutch cable?
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Yes. The cable could be frayed.
However, I found last winter that all of a sudden my clutch was getting really stiff and my accelerator pedal was sticking. Figured out that because of the colder weather, the grease that the PO had used to lube the cables was starting to thicken up. Cleaned both out the clutch cable with wd40 and it worked much better. The throttle cable was fraying so I just replaced it.
Give it a check. It would make sense too now that it's getting colder.
Matt
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Thanks for the reply. It was 25 degrees C here today, so it's not temperature related. I'm hoping it's only the cable.
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yea i'd replace the clutch cable, but then again i have about 2 on parts cars that i'd just rip off in a rage... :twisted: gotta love newbies.. only use drylube for cables like graphite. although the grease is a quick and dirty way to 'hide' a problem...
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I couldn't find any obvious fraying, so have kept driving the car. Today on the way home from work, it got progressively more difficult to get the shift selector into any of the gears. Before I got home it was bad enough that I couldn't select 1st or 2nd at all. Limped home with 3rd and 4th gear. Is there something internal in the transmission that could cause this or is this more likely a linkage problem? 1st and 2nd feel as if there is something blocking them from engaging (lever won't move as far as normal). I do have proper gear oil level in the transmission. There is a leak at the left driveaxle into the transmission that has coated the linkage in this area with oil and then dirt. First job tomorrow is to clean the area off. I do have a kit to replace all wear items in the linkage.
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definitely check the linkages... also i think i remember some people saying that if the motor/transmission mounts are bad or on the way out, that it may be hard to get it into gear. i did notice that when my front mount was broken, that reverse was harder than normal to get into, and even 1st gear.
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Should there be any play in the front motor mount at all? If I grab my motor by the valve cover, I can see about 1/4" vertical movement at the rubber disc on the mount located at the front of the engine by the left side of the rad. Note that I can't get 1st or 2nd even at an idle while stopped with the clutch in, and I assume this would create a no-load condition on this mount.
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I use the front motor mount from a late model Passat 1.8T or the V6 I think. It fits tighter in the stock front mount for Rabbit, Jetta or Scirocco MK1's. It still lets the engine move but not as much slop in the mount.
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Trans goes into all gears fine with engine not running. With engine running I can't engage 1st and 2nd, grinding sound with reverse. I had assumed I had a self-adjusting clutch cable, find out it's a manual cable :oops: . Now, I adjusted it all the way out, and I still can't get it to release fully. I did the Bentley test for clutch function, engine stalls when clutch released slowly with part throttle/brakes on in 3rd gear. Am I safe to assume that the clutch is OK (I have a receipt from the P.O. that it was replaced at 278,000 km and have 342,000 km now)? Even when I tried spacers between the clutch cable end and the release lever to try and increase the effective length, I can't get full release. Can the cable stretch this much? How likely do you think it is that a new cable will fix this completely? (I have a new cable on order.)
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This is just a suggestion, but maybe your throw-out bearing has colapsed
or the clutch push rod has worn a hole through your pressure plate release cover.
It sound wierd that you can get third and fourth, but not first and second.
Pull off the green cap off the end of the trans. and see if your throw-out bearing is ok and get the push rod out and check the condition of the opposite end. It should be very obvious if theres something wrong.
Maybe it's just your shift linkage.
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Only last week I had a similar symptom on my Quantum. On close inspection I found the clutch lever on thetransmission had actually fractured underneath and was flexing in preference to depressing the clutch plate.
Also check that lever hasn't rotated slightly making the cable too long...
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ahhh have you peek under the dash to see if the pedal assembly has not broke? i had one break once on me!
thanks Duane
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Nothing under the dash appears broken. When the pedal comes all the way back up, the cable end is slack and the pin comes right back to the start of the slot at the top of the pedal assembly.
Can the manual clutch cable be replaced with the self-adjusting cable? I can't find the manual one for sale.
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Can you shift into all the gears not using the clutch at all? You know by rpm matching? You shouldn't need to use the clutch at all once the car is moving. Just rev your engine up to the right rpm (when out of gear) and it should just slide right into gear. You might want to find a guide to doing this properly. Basically if your accelerating in first and you pop it out then while the rpm is falling apply pressure to go into second gear and at the right rpm it will just slip right in. When going from 3rd to 2nd rev the car up past the matching rpm point for second gear and as the rpm are falling it should just slip right in as well. Should work for all the gears. If it's grinding then something isn't right at all.
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So if you can get into all your gears that way then it's probably something to do with your clutch. Hope you work this problem out, sounds horrible!
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I can get the gears if I don't use the clutch, but once I'm stopped (at a light or stop sign) I have to take off (if that's what you can call it) in 3rd gear as that's the lowest gear I can select. I can select all the gears with the engine off, but if I put it in 1st and then start the car, you can feel it moving the car slightly. Same with 2nd. If you start it in neutral and select reverse, I can get it in but it grinds. So.... the clutch is not fully releasing. I tried to use spacers at the cable end to reduce the effective cable length but that didn't work and the white cable sheath is now kinked and has the cable coming out the side at the end above the adjuster.
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hmmmmm my car grinds in reverse too... plus my 2nd gear synchro is busted. so i either need to let the engine revs go down, or slam it in and get a nice grind, or sometimes i can catch it just right :) i would almost suspect that your 1st & 2nd synchro's maybe toast if you can get into them while engine is off...
btw does anyone know the shift points for a no clutch? just curious...
thanks!
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Questions on the clutch release lever. I assume the rest orientation should be roughly parallel to the ground. How far should it travel to fully release the clutch, and how much force? Should I be able to pull up on the end of the lever manually to release the clutch? (This would help isolate the cable as part of the problem.)
If I look through the inspection port at the top of the bellhousing, I can see almost 1" of the spline on the mainshaft. Is this normal?
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Got the new clutch cable today. (NAPA was the only local supplier who could get me the manual adjusting cable. Altrom p/n 191 721 335 D if anyone else ever needs it.) Installed it but it made absolutely no difference.
I checked Mark's suggestion about the lever fracturing, but there is absolutely no movement relative to the shaft through the pivot point and no visible flexing/cracks. I don't know what the position of the lever should be at rest or when the clutch is fully released. Mine sits at between 7:00 and 8:00 when the cable is disconnected, and just past 9:00 when the clutch pedal is fully depressed. (Viewed from the front of the engine.)
So I guess I'm at internal problems. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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I have had loads of fun with the "self adjusting " style clutch cable when it refuses to self adjust. Gives some of the symptoms that you describe. Is yours a manual adjust cable with a locknut and threaded bit to reduce play or is it the "self adjusting" cable. I ended up putting a spacer under the end of the cable at the transmission which worked and did not require a new $200 self adjusting cable. Cheers Dan
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Mine is the manual adjusting cable. Cost me $25. Note that most of the online sites mentioned in other posts will sell you a self-adjusting cable for somewhere between $55 and $70. I've done both the new cable and the spacer as you mentioned with absolutely no difference. :evil:
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I got this symptom too once - came out that the release bearing had disintegrated to bits, making the pedal feel half dead, car creeping n all
Ive witnessed the creeping on a Honda too but on that the synchros were jammed due to use of gearoil in it, hondas use engine oil in the tranny.
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I'll check the release bearing and if it's not that I'll park it for now. Local VW garage quoted me $1100 for repair (replacing trans with a junker and new clutch) so I doubt that they actually know what the issue is. The mechanic said something about all the bearings in the trans being gone, but if that was the case why wouldn't I get any weird noises or problems when not using the clutch? The problem does get worse as the trans gets warmer, not sure if that points to anything specific.
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I am including two pics of the release bearing. Doesn't look like that's the problem to me, but am I missing something?
(http://home.golden.net/~clbanman/dscf0002.jpg)
(http://home.golden.net/~clbanman/dscf0003.jpg)
When I took the end cap off, there was a fair amount of grit/debris at the bottom, but it doesn't appear to have come from the bearing. I pulled out the clutch shaft and there was no apparent binding or damage to it.
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that looks ok, I think you pried the shells out of the case?
is your pushrod stopped by the realease plate?
other than this and a new clutch cable - you can check the lube oil condition, if you used API GL5 in the vw tranny - your synchros would be shaven - it eats away the brass,
you can give it a shot with API GL4 75W90 gear oil - see if it helps
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ahhhhhh................back to topic of clutch release...............
Higher effert with less effect...........
New cable rules out "sticky" cable.
release bearing looks good.
Heck, time to drop the tranny to look at the clutch plate assembly.....
broken bits off something inside of the flywheel/plate area hanging things up?
Looks like you have done everything else... :twisted:
good luck, let us know what you find.
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this must be clutch season or something. my clutch is giving me some of the same symptoms.
just lately i've noticed that my clutch only engages right at the very last bit of pedal travel (to the point where when driving i actually believe that the clutch is 'slipping' and gives some weird new noise under acceleration :roll:). my immediate reaction was; something isn't right. it just doesn't feel right. the clutch isn't engaging at the right point... (totally screwing my driving style up and probably pissing people behind me off)
symptoms leading up to this point were that the clutch didn't always want to return after being depressed (VERY ANNOYING). i would depress the clutch and then go to release it, only to have it 'stick'. if i let my foot off it nearly dumped one time, so i stopped that, and tried to play it a little to get it to release. at first i thought the cable was binding somehow, or that my clutch pedal was getting caught on something.
i've been driving her pretty easy just in case the clutch is slipping due to this issue.
i really like the idea of using some sort of spacer to 'trick' the self adjusting clutch cable. if this works, i will be very happy :D
if its the actual clutch itself, i will be pissed. with my mTDI build going full speed, i need to buy a clutch which is already expensive. does anyone think it could be the clutch? i was thinking that maybe the clutch surface is so worn down ? or maybe the pushrod is screwed up? i don't have much knowledge of that area...
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so now the issue is linked to the clutch cable :roll:
questions i have are: if i let the arm down too low, is that bad? what if i cut away some of that rubber bumper to give more cable travel? its almost like i just need a little bit more... anyways i'm going to check out the local NAPA to see if they have a manually adjustable clutch cable first. if not, then i'll try the ghetto mod to keep me going a bit longer.
thanks all
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YES i think i fixed the problem! looked up the repair manual and it said to get someone to depress the clutch. got my bro to depress the clutch pedal and then the self adjusting mechanism let go, giving me more cable. held it down with some vice grips and tugged pretty good. at this point i had the lever pushed up by a rod from under the car. put the little clip back on, let the lever go, and presto!
weird that the clutch now engages 3/4 of clutch travel. it doesn't grind though so i think i'm safe. before the clutch caught right at the end of the pedal... im glad this is now fixed and will consider getting the self adjusting one as i don't mind getting a little dirty.
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the more i think about this... i usually always put the clutch to the floor when changing gears. i could have just pushed half way before without issues. since depressing the clutch all the way releases the self adjusting mechanism, maybe i was screwing it up and eventually adjusted too much???? i've been driving this thing for nearly 2.5 years though without any issues with the clutch cable.
clbanman how is your clutch issue going? is it the release arm fracture?
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Mine's officially parked for now. I just bought a 91 Golf 1.6NA to replace it. (Cost me $150 more than the repair estimate.) I'll probably tear into it in the spring/summer. The car drives fine, and I can get all gears if I don't use the clutch. No noises while shifting, so I can't see the synchros being gone. Manual clutch cable (new) is adjusted all the way out (only about 1/2" onto the threads). No fractures on release arm, throwout bearing is good, internal lever looks good, acutator rod with no damage visible on the end as I would expect if it had pushed through the plate. Starting the car in 1st gear with clutch pedal to the floor will actually move the car a bit, same with 2nd. Clutch pedal all the way to the floor, move shifter from neutral to reverse and I can get the gear, but it grinds. No clutch slipping when using Bentley check method. I tried spacers between the clutch release lever and the end of the cable to effectively shorten it up with no difference. Something in the clutch area must be broken because even with the pedal all the way in, it's still making enough contact with the flywheel to make it hard or impossible to get 1st or 2nd from neutral with the engine running. Problem is worse when everything gets hotter. If the car sits overnight, it works reasonably well until it gets to operating temperature. It's a shame, because on my last tank, I got 1026 km.
Calvin
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thats awesome mileage! too bad :( my car is about 700km, but i do drive pretty hard and there might be a sticky injector.
i think i've done some permanent damage to my car from the clutch possibly not engaging all the way (and driving it like that). i've made about 2-3 trips like that, and there was no signs of clutch slip, but there can still be damage right? to the thrust bearings?
just seems like there's some new noises... low rpm grumbles... :cry: drives exactly like before, except me trying to get used to the new clutch engaging point.