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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: rob76 on September 24, 2007, 05:28:02 pm

Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 24, 2007, 05:28:02 pm
Has anybody ever repaired a non working glow plug relay?  My 7 second relay stays on for 45 seconds....so something is obviously wrong. VW part number 171 911 261E which I guess is an outdated part number but the dealership won't give me the new part number so I'm having a hard time finding a replacement online.

Has anybody ever repaired one of these things?  It's just a bunch of resistors and 3 capacitors inside. Maybe a few diodes and an IC. The dealer wants $135 for a new one!
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: burn_your_money on September 24, 2007, 05:51:36 pm
what year car?

It might be a faulty temp sensor or wire from the sensor
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: bigblockchev on September 24, 2007, 06:11:46 pm
Post a closeup digital pic of both sides of the relay printed circuit board so we can get an idea of how complex it is. Might help to answer the question. Cheers Dan
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: Vincent Waldon on September 24, 2007, 07:26:27 pm
Update your profile to contain the model and year of your car and us Canucks will find you the best Canadian deal possible on a new part... no messing around reverse-engineering.

So far, I spy with my little eye... that part number for 56 bucks.

Whoops.... somewhere else (http://catalog.worldpac.com/marks/quote.jsp?header=http://www.bestpricecarparts.com/cdnheader.txt&footer=http://www.bestpricecarparts.com/cdnfooter.txt&product=171911261E&partner=marks&baseurl=http://www.importcarpartscanada.ca/&clientid=importcarpartscanada.ca&cookieid=26S1C83HD26S1C83HC).... 44 bucks.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: burn_your_money on September 24, 2007, 08:05:32 pm
Or there's those crazies (like me) that have boxes full of them
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: Vincent Waldon on September 24, 2007, 08:08:52 pm
Quote from: "burn_your_money"
Or there's those crazies (like me) that have boxes full of them


You sly dog... I thought you were out of the business or I woulda mentioned you right away.

Arent you supposed to be studying right now ???  ;-)
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: burn_your_money on September 24, 2007, 08:22:42 pm
Just because I'm not buying any more cars doesn't mean I'm not trying to unload all my left overs. I need drinking money anyways :lol: actually the money from car parts usually goes towards my truck.

I finished studying already, homework first :P
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 24, 2007, 08:26:09 pm
Sorry bigblockchev I already put it back in the car, it had about 20 resistors and diodes and some transistors and 3 capacitors... probably not the easiest thing to repair. Would one component go bad or would all the components kinda go sour with time eventually throwing the timer out?

Vincent which part number did you search for? On those sites they only list parts for the NA diesel and I have a 1991 Turbo Diesel so I have no idea if that part matches mine. Is HUCO a decent maker of relays?

burn_your_money why on earth do you have a bucket of them? lol, Are they working? Could you send me one?  :)
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 24, 2007, 08:28:57 pm
My temp sensor is working fine, goes to 0 ohms below 50 degrees. Infinite ohms above 50C.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: burn_your_money on September 24, 2007, 08:29:21 pm
I had a chop shop, I killed alot of TDs (or as I like to say, I saved alot of other TDs)

Yeah I can send you the one out of my daily :) :(
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 24, 2007, 08:32:30 pm
lol, oh I did a part# search on that site and it did come back with the HUCO so I suppose that must be it.  Coool
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: Vincent Waldon on September 24, 2007, 08:36:15 pm
yeah I searched for your part number... they're a good vendor for us Canadians to know about... OEM parts at non-dealer prices, and if you can get the order over 75 bucks shipping is free... I can always find something to put me over the edge !!
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 24, 2007, 08:38:01 pm
I need a bunch of brake parts, rear cylinders, drums, shoes, bearing kit, front hoses... I'll be over $75  nooooo problem.  Thanks for sharing the extra site.  The other one I was looking on is autopartsonlinecanada.com which is like the same kinda site.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: blkboostedtruck on September 24, 2007, 09:07:42 pm
PartsPlace in michigan i think has both relays for like 32 bucks new! IIRC
 thanks Duane
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 24, 2007, 09:33:28 pm
Yeah trouble is they charge me 14% tax and 10% duty and a retarded brokerage fee if I buy from the US.  Plus most US companies won't even ship to Canada anymore. It makes me sad. Damn overpriced canadian merchadise!!
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: Otis2 on September 27, 2007, 02:13:58 pm
I just got off the phone with Bow Wow in Lyndon, WA, and they have new 443 911 261 glow plug relays for $30 (supposedly 6 second glow).

What is the difference in the way the various relays work?

Can you interchange 171 911 261A, with 443 911 261,  with 357 911 253A?  They all have 7 terminals, look like they all fit the same slots.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 27, 2007, 02:24:02 pm
As far as I know there's only 2 relays, the fast and the slow.
321 911 261 is the slow
171 911 261 is the fast.

Mine was "171 911 261 E" which corresponds to a Beck/Arnley relay # 203-0023  I replaced it with a Meyle relay from Lordco but it seems to range between 23 seconds and 30 seconds now... I'm still in the process of double checking that glowplug temperature sender. Something's screwy. I read everywhere too that the turbo's are supposed to have the slow system.

Information sources:
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/CheapTricks/GlowPlugs.shtml  

http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd/glowplugguide.htm

http://www.olyonline.com/techtips/index.asp

http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/jag/vw/engine/glowplugs/glowplugs.html

http://www.vwdieselparts.com/wintert.htm
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 27, 2007, 02:27:19 pm
Here's a page with some cross reference numbers on it.
http://www.partsquick.com/ProductDetail.asp?i=93004  

The relay at lordco was $41 here in Victoria. It was found using the Beck # 203-0023.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 27, 2007, 07:19:08 pm
So on my water flange I have two sensors.  One faces straight up and is for the gauge and it's at around 100 ohms when hot, it has a red wire.  The other one sticks out to the side and has a blue wire running from it. The one sticking out the side (the glow plug sensor) never deviates from around 6 to 4 million ohms. So I assume it must be shot.

Are both sensors the same on a 91? It is a turbo diesel and most of these online parts stores only list things for the regular diesel.  Unfortunately I don't think this thing has a part number on it that I can see. It is however made in Luxemburg. I almost broke my neck trying to read that!
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 27, 2007, 08:05:08 pm
Oh incase you missed this link which is linked to in one of the above articles
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/GlowPlug.shtml  

That has a good description of the 2 glow plug types.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: jimfoo on September 27, 2007, 08:09:22 pm
All I saw in the VW page, which is the only one I would care about, said that the early ones used the slow relay and the later the fast. It said nothing about if it had a turbo. Just match your plugs to the type of relay you have and stop worrying about it. I have fast plugs in my AAZ and it hardly smokes at startup, and then not for long. Well it smokes now, but i only have 2 good glowplugs at the moment.

Quote from: "rob76"
As far as I know there's only 2 relays, the fast and the slow.
321 911 261 is the slow
171 911 261 is the fast.

Mine was "171 911 261 E" which corresponds to a Beck/Arnley relay # 203-0023  I replaced it with a Meyle relay from Lordco but it seems to range between 23 seconds and 30 seconds now... I'm still in the process of double checking that glowplug temperature sender. Something's screwy. I read everywhere too that the turbo's are supposed to have the slow system.

Information sources:
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/CheapTricks/GlowPlugs.shtml  

http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd/glowplugguide.htm

http://www.olyonline.com/techtips/index.asp

http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/jag/vw/engine/glowplugs/glowplugs.html

http://www.vwdieselparts.com/wintert.htm
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 27, 2007, 08:19:52 pm
My relay is supposed to be for the fast system. Currently it waits 30 seconds though before the light goes out and that's with a new relay. I think the temp sensor is bad though.  I'm pretty sure it has the fast system because the glow plugs have the copper terminals on them.

Is the fast system supposed to only glow for 7 seconds when cold?  What about if the engine is already warm?
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: jimfoo on September 27, 2007, 09:45:42 pm
I thought I remembered reading on here somewhere that the fast system can be on for up to 2 minutes to reduce emissions. They should be on longer the colder it is.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 27, 2007, 10:09:46 pm
Why is it a "7 second" relay?
Apparently when testing the glowplugs the fast one's are supposed to get to full heat within 7 seconds.  The slow one's within 30 seconds.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: nokivasara on September 29, 2007, 07:56:28 am
If you suspect your temp sensor is faulty, take off the wire and run it to good ground. It shouldn´t power the glow plugs.
If you just disconnect it from the sensor you will get maximum glow time (45sec or so).

Or you can run the wire to the other temp sensor and see if that works, they have the same resistance.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on September 29, 2007, 09:23:54 am
I tried that actually. It went on for 4 seconds when cold. I found out there are two temp sensors in the water flange and they are different but not by much.
The gauge has the one with the red wire and is black in color vw part# "251 919 501 AD"  while the glow plug temp sensor takes a blue wire and is blue in color vw part# "025 906 041 A".

They are both about $15 at NAPA. For some reason both my sensors are black in color. Maybe somebody put the wrong one in at some point. Anyhow Once I get the right one next week I'll post my final result.
Title: glow plug relay repair
Post by: rob76 on October 04, 2007, 11:55:01 pm
Yup bought the blue temp sensor for the glow plug circuit. Now my light stays on for a max of about 10 seonds when totally cold and only a second or two once warmed up.

My old relay still works too but it stays on about 2 or 3 seconds longer.  Anybody want a working relay for $20? lol