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General Information => FAQ/Tech Tips/Please Read First => Topic started by: 8v-of-fury on January 25, 2010, 03:46:39 pm

Title: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 25, 2010, 03:46:39 pm
THIS IS THE CORRECT METHOD TO PROPERLY MODIFY YOUR GOVERNOR SPRING ASSEMBLY.

I Stole this from the Vortex Diesel section, as our DIY section got kinda messed up when we did the forum change in 2009. Not to mention our Governor Mod page in the FAQ is 5 years old, has outdated methods, broken links and simply tells the readers to shim the wrong springs. Black Smokin' Diesel did a wonderful prep and writeup about the governor mod, however some pics he used shows shimming of the wrong springs as well. I did a little editing among the thread to reflect the best way to do the governor mod. Full credit to Black Smokin' Diesel and fspGTD for the pics and information. ENJOY  ;)

There has also been a ton of banter about which is the correct way to do this. Some remove the intermediate spring and put in a solid piece, and still shim the main spring.. as the creator of the pictures did. However from talking to a few people who have done this recently both ways.. touching the intermediate spring will make the car very weird to drive under normal conditions.

Quote from: theman53
What I noticed was when you mash it in first you had to shift before you thought it was going to blow. 2nd same, 3rd same. It would keep pulling as long as the rpms were still climbing. 4th and 5th usually were way over the speed limit and still pulled well, not quite as good as the lower gears.

From what I gather the main spring compresses a little on low RPM, but mainly it is the higher RPMs that it affects. I never had a tach, but I am guessing about 2,500 the main spring starts to limit fuel and will continue until 4,800-5,300. Then I don't believe your engine will rev anymore because of lack of fuel. You should feel it when driving that you lose power even though the engine keeps spinning faster. When you mod it it will go until valve float...or at least that is what is sounded like to me.

Quote from: theman53
yes above idle it is the intermediate spring doing much of the work...but you need it to. If you shim it or put a solid piece in it will cause driving issues. If you hold the pedal in one spot and the intermediate spring has a different load put on in *rolling hill for ex.* then your rpm will go up then down without moving the  pedal at all. It feels like you don't have a direct connection to the car it does what it wants. I suspect the firmer the intermediate spring the worse it would be.

MAIN SPRING FTW!!!  ;)

Quote from: dts67
If you take the lever in both hands and pull it you'll see how it works, at WOT the 2 smaller are fully compressed anyway, shimming them makes no gain imo, only ruins part throttle and idle control.

So as you can see from user experience, just shim the damn Main Spring and be done with it and enjoy the new found power that has been unlocked from your BEAST!  ;D ;D


I am not responsible for any damage that could occur to your pump, engine and car before, during and after this modification.

There's a lot more to IDI tuning than this. I suggest you educate yourself about IDI engines before you do any mods to your pump/engine. Before attempting this mod, you should be armed with technical information on the VE pump.  I have been collecting this over a few years time, scanning it in and putting it linked to this page.  Here you will find descriptions on how the pump works, related terminology (what its parts are called) and useful detailed parts blow-up diagrams:
http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd/vepump.htm (http://home.comcast.net/~vwgtd/vepump.htm)
Read and study these links well before attempting going inside your own VE pump.

Ah the infamous governor mod! IDI's Achilles' heel. It's amazing how such a simple (relatively speaking) procedure can yield such impressive results.

What does it do and how it works
The governor is used to control RPMs and fuel delivery. When reaching full throttle, fuel is gradually cut by 80% and RPM is limited to about 5500. Modding the governor means a LOT more fuel in most of the RPM range and higher revs (some people have taken their 1.6 to 6000 and more).

The governor is a simple device. Three springs and a cage. There's the Idle, Intermediate and Main spring. When you rotate the throttle on the IP, the governor pulls on a lever inside the pump. This lever increases RPM and fueling to a certain point. That certain point is determined by the governor which stretches when pulled. Once the throttle reaches the stop screw, the governor has stretched enough to cut fuel by 80%.

Starting from the left: Idle (small), intermediate (medium) and main (long) spring. The shaft on the right is the throttle shaft.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_3025.jpg)

How the mod works
The mod will prevent the governor from stretching by NOT touching the intermediate spring and instead shimming the main spring with 3-5mm. The small idle spring is left UNTOUCHED.

This is what it will look like when modded.
The original poster did not have a picture of exactly what I wanted to portray.. so a little Microsoft paint and Voila! The main spring (far right) is to be shimmed with 3-5mm of washers that will fit on the shaft and in the cage.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/IMG_3027-2.jpg)

What you need to know
The engine should be in top shape and correctly timed. Steps 1-4 really only apply to turbo equipped engines.

First and foremost, increasing fueling will yield higher EGT (exhaust gas temperature). An EGT gauge is highly recommended. On Turobo engines to use this fuel, you'll need to up the boost. Blocking the BOV on the intake, installing a manual boost controller and adding a boost gauge is necessary.

Second, to keep EGTs down you'll want an intercooler. Ebay is a great source for cheap coolers, aluminum tubing and silicone couplers. If you're doing this to a NA engine, water injection might be something to look into.

Third, the stock exhaust simply won't cut it. 2.5" front to back is a good size. Straight pipe (no mufflers) is ok, it shouldn't be too loud.

Fourth, headgasket. Since you'll be upping the boost, the stock HG might not last long. If you have to replace it, now would be a good time. Here's a link to the metal HG upgrade for hydrolic 1.6 engines: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3099455 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3099455)

Fifth, you will want an RPM gauge if you don't have one. This mod will allow the engine to rev itself until it floats valves and throws a rod out through the side of the block.

Preparation
If you can, remove the pump from the engine. It'll make the job a lot easier but is not necessary. Clean the injection pump really good! Brake cleaner works nicely. You don't want crap to fall into the pump, it has very tight tolerances. If you can get your hands on a pump rebuilt kit it would be best as you will have to replace one or two seals. Work in a clean area and lubricate everything with clean diesel fuel.

The procedure
This it the test subject. An old seized pump I kept for spare parts. I didn't bother cleaning it since its governor will be installed in a working pump.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_2980.jpg)

Note the position of these springs before disassembly and mark the orientation of the throttle lever.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_2988.jpg)

Unhook the spring from the throttle lever and remove the top 10mm nut. Gently tap the lever and pry it off the shaft. You don't need to separate the two levers like I did.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_2990.jpg)

Remove all the springs and their seat from the shaft. Keep them in order (mine will go back from right to left).
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_2994.jpg)

There are four allen bolts holding the cover on. One of them is under one of the throttle lever's stop screw. If you can't remove the stop screw easily, unscrew the locking nut halfway. Take the throttle lever's top bolt, thread it on the stop screw and resting it against the locking nut. They should lock together and enable you to move the stop screw. If one of the allen bolt strips, use a bigger torx bit and hammer in in the bolt. You can see the stop screws on the right in this picture.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_2995.jpg)

Once the bolt are off the cover will pop up. Unhook the spring on the left (don't lose it) and gently tap on the throttle shaft to slide it out of the cover.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_2996.jpg)

This is what you'll see when the cover is off. The small spring you unhooked is used by the cold start advance. The rectangular seal on the cover will have to be replaced along with the small rubber o-ring on the throttle shaft. The governor is attached to the throttle shaft.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_2998.jpg)

Grab the governor and rotate it so the notch on the shaft clears the notch on the lever.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_2999.jpg)

Governor removed. You can clearly see the small rubber o-ring you'll have to replace on the throttle shaft.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_3000.jpg)

To disassemble the governor (note that you cannot remove the throttle shaft, it is riveted onto the governor), press on the Grey spring seat to compress it and slide it out of its cage.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_3026.jpg)

This is what you end up with.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_3027.jpg)

Remove the small cir-clip at the main spring end of the governor. You'll have to slightly compress the main spring to get it off using a small flat head screwdriver. Be careful as the spring and seat could fly out in your face and take out your left eye.
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k18/idkf1/DIY%20Governor%20Mod/IMG_3030.jpg)

Remove the spring seat and the Main spring. Use the appropriate washers to shim the main spring (pre-loading it). When reassembling the Main spring, you'll have to compress it to fit the seat and it's circlip onto the shaft. It might be hard to compress due to the shims. Be careful and make sure the circlip is fully engaged into its groove. Slide it back into the cage. It'll will be hard to compress to make it fit so take your time and be careful. Make sure it's completely seated and that everything is in its appropriate order. This picture is also wrong as to what to do.. but it was how the original poster did his shimming.. not how we want to do ours! Do not touch the Intermediate spring or shim it at all.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/IMG_3032-1.jpg)

Reassembly of the pump is the reverse of dissasembly. Clean the governor and the mating sides of the pump and cover. Replace the cover seal and the throttle shaft o-ring. Slide the governor back into place into its notched lever. Lube the inside of the throttle hole on the cover and the throttle lever and o-ring with clean diesel (don't use any kind of grease). Carefully slide the throttle lever into the hole in the cover. Don't force anything. Don't worry if it's not in completely, you can pull on it from the top. Next, hook back the cold start spring to its lever.

Torque down the allen bolts on the cover (don't go crazy, they're steel bolts threading in to aluminum). Reassemble the throttle levers making sure they are in the same orientation as before.

Now go out there and have fun with your newly found power. Don't forget, modding is a step by step thing. Don't go out modding every setting on your pump all at the same time. Tune one setting and see what it does then move on to the next.


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May 17th 2011- I did the Gov Mod today. ;) Yes I wrote this DIY over a year ago with no actual inside knowledge of the Bosch VE pump lol.

The top cage assembly is for my 91 N/A, and YES that is a shim that takes up THE ENTIRE MAIN SPRING SPOT! I wish I measured it.. come to think of it..
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/Diesel/IMG00687-20110517-1651.jpg)

Couple of pictures regarding spring placement, I'm glad i took these.. cuz NO WAY I remembered what they looked like.. and the way they wrap around doesnt make sense lol.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/Diesel/IMG00684-20110517-1633.jpg)(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/Diesel/IMG00686-20110517-1634.jpg)

Anyway, now I have viable %100 proof and not just word from other people. This MOD WORKS. I shimmed the main so that it doesn't move at all, and I have zero drivability issues, and still fully functional pump.

You want proof? Here it is. Before with my 185/60/14's on my FN trans 3.89FD and 1.29 3rd gear wouldn't be any good past 85km/h (3900rpm).. sure it still had some left, but you needed to be in a wind, down a hill, or just want to wind it out for 2 km's to gain another 10km/h..  NOW 3rd gear pulls all the way up to 115km/h!!! (5300rpm!!) 4th gear up to 140km/h and 5th got me up to 155km/h. All on flat ground with not much wind to speak of today, and it didn't take nearly as long.

Oh and I most certainly had 2nd gear wound up to 80-85km/h in town.. (5600-5900rpm's)

THIS MOD WORKS, IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT! DO ITTT!!!

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EDIT: March 6th 2012. I have good knowledge that shimming the governor too aggressively will cause internal pump wear. Nothing to be extremely worried about, but just letting you know it can happen.

The added spring tension on the throttle lever towards the governor shaft will aid in the wear on the throttle plate where the governor shaft rides.

(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/84%20Jetta/IMG_0312.jpg?t=1331096810]http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/84%20Jetta/IMG_0312.jpg?t=1331096810)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: malone on January 25, 2010, 09:45:49 pm
Nice work!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: burn_your_money on January 25, 2010, 10:12:08 pm
Be prepared to drop the clutch to stall the engine in case you really screwed something up. The stop solenoid should be able to turn the car off but just in case it's good to have a backup plan.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: anto on January 26, 2010, 05:18:05 am
Very good write up clarifying the gov mod.
I know when i first went about searching for it, the many different views had me confused. I eventually did just shim the main after extensive reading!
Nice to have it clear and concise in one thread.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: theman53 on January 26, 2010, 07:46:38 am
The only thing I noticed was I had my pump a lot cleaner when opening. I know you cabbaged the pics, but it is worth noting that these pumps don't like much of anything in them that isn't burnable. I used at least one can of brake clean after hosing off the big stuff before opening.
Other than that I think this thread FTW on the governor mod
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: carrizog60 on January 26, 2010, 08:09:11 am
and what about the resulst of removing the main and put something solid?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 29, 2010, 11:11:57 am
and what about the resulst of removing the main and put something solid?

Well I haven't done it personally, the pictures that I posted are pretty much 1-2 shims away from solidly shimming that spring. I asked the same question about solid shimming in another thread to get information for this one and came up with this..

(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/thP2240028-1.jpg)
This pic any good? Theres loads more random pump part pics on my photobucket for anyone wanting to use them, 'del635'.
Shimming the governor solid, messes up the lda? ie no smoke control?
 

His Main spring in the governor is nearly shimmed right solid, So I asked him about driveability and how the car reacts to different situations and pedal movements.. and he responded with this..

No problems at all at part throttle at any load, the rpms do not hang at all either between gears. There is still travel in the main spring, cant remember exactly how much tbh maybe about a 1/4 of original and there is also much more tension, I thought this was needed for the lda otherwise there would be nothing for it to hold back on off boost. The cars pulls harder above 3k rpm at full throttle much different to the non shimmed lever where power just tailed away to nothing.
I used to have the smaller spring shimmed as well there was no noticable power difference at full throttle and at part throttle it was hard work keeping the car at a constant speed, you had to constantly adjust the pedal back forward it was only after this did I really understand just what the governor is doing at all rpms/loads its not just a rev limiter.
The one thing I dont like about the gov mod is the lack of no load speed limitation, eg I was trying to pull another car which was stuck in snow and when my wheels lost grip a quick blip of the pedal saw over 6k rpm! :o I cant let anyone drive my car either as it would take a matter of seconds to blow the engine to pieces but all in with a bit of sense it is an excellent mod for free hp.

Then there was a minor issue brought forth, and that is this mod has no rev limiting! If you are really in to the throttle and your front tires loose traction there is nothing stopping your already Wide Open Throttle from revving the engine to over 6000 rpm. Another issue is that this will pretty much make your car un-lend-able to friends or family... Unless they fully understand how to properly drive it, they could blow it up a block from where they left.

A solution was brought up about how to remedy the situation, and maybe make some sort of electronic engine speed trigger that would cut fuel to the engine..

good point about having no rev limit at all - and others driving your car...

i guess it wouldnt be a huge job to wire a relay into the stop solenoid, trigerred by an electronic overspeed signal (either from tach or something else). cut fuel at specific rpm.....

Thanks a lot guys. Another other good pieces of information please feel free to post it up!!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Smokey Eddy on February 02, 2010, 02:13:56 pm
Nicely done Jer.
To saticefy this recent curiosity...
and what about the resulst of removing the main and put something solid?

I replaced that big spring with a solid sleeve.
Last night in the rain showing off my speedo said between 50 and 55 km/hr and i was in 1st gear... how many rpm is that on an 020? ;)
I could hear it chirping off the gov :P  ::)
BRrrrrBrrrrrrBRrrrrrrBRrrrrrrBRrrrrrrr
Made lots of steam.

(Apparently that's 6,250 rpm with my tires & AGS tranny)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Smokey Eddy on February 02, 2010, 05:41:14 pm
The only thing I noticed was I had my pump a lot cleaner when opening. I know you cabbaged the pics, but it is worth noting that these pumps don't like much of anything in them that isn't burnable. I used at least one can of brake clean after hosing off the big stuff before opening.
Other than that I think this thread FTW on the governor mod

I agree. It should be made clear that these pumps were originally manfactured in a surgically clean and air filtered assembly room by people wearing full body suits and hair nets...
(at least on bigger rigs they are - ie. Ships, Trains and the like.)


I have another thread roughly about the same thing, and I was told that these engines will reach and sustain 5350 +/- 20 floored in neutral. These engines could run forever at 5300rpm, they are built like tanks.

When shimming even small amounts of the main spring, such as the 1/4" results in fueling way higher in the rpm range.. if no shims on a stock pump and engine result in 5300rpm floored in neutral.. i think adding a 3/16" shim would make the governor react a lot better to pedal movement.

Does anyone have a tach, and an engine that has been shimmed with a small shim on the main spring only? What was your maximum rpm achieved?

This is something I definitely want to experiment with when i dig the diesel out in the spring.


I need to set up a tach on mine and i'll post a video of playing with the rpm in neutral. Now if only i could rig up a tach :P I need one of those magnet sensor things. I have an aftermarket tach just sitting in my dash getting power doing nothing.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 06, 2010, 07:24:37 pm
(http://i670.photobucket.com/albums/vv66/del635/th_P2240028-1.jpg)
This pic any good? Theres loads more random pump part pics on my photobucket for anyone wanting to use them, 'del635'.
Shimming the governor solid, messes up the lda? ie no smoke control?
 

im about this far shimmed up too. (~3/16") i really cant tell any difference driving the car, other than it has alot more power and turns about 7000 rpms after the mod.

it blew alot more blackness after the mod.

Thanks Kev. ;)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: anto on February 09, 2010, 05:33:47 am
I have my governor main spring shimmed near solid and i can see it kicking in in 3rd gear at about 5000rpm.
Is there something else that would stop it revving anymore?
It physically seemed to hit a wall at those revs....perhaps my gt15 tiny turbo is the cause of this?

Also will an 11mm head take those kind of rpms every once in a while?

Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on February 21, 2010, 02:19:10 am
How does the full throttle stop play into this?  Bentley says floor it in neutral and adjust to book spec redline, but if the governor is altered, what role the throttle stop other than a physical stop?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 21, 2010, 12:29:20 pm
With the stock governor in place and factory settings, an Volkswagen rotary pump will only reach around 53-5400RPM in neutral with the foot to the floor. Because of the composition of the springs in the stock governor, the full throttle stop stops the springs at a certain point, and thus stopping fueling. Shimming the governor will pretty much turn it to nothing more than a physical stop.. as with the shimming done the pump now has more fuel than the engine can use.

There will still be a physical redline for fueling, it will just be up around 75-7600rpm.. where lifters start to float, and cam plate in the pump does not make contact with the rollers anymore ;)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on February 26, 2010, 12:21:45 am
I might have missed it, but is there any benefit to this on a NA motor?  Seems like I heard burn_your_money say once he couldn't see how it'd help without a turbo, if anyone would know he would.  I tried it for giggles when I did the seals on mine the other day and didn't like it.
Bottom end felt mushy, mid was no stronger once it finally woke up, and I don't rev the thing high enough I guess to see any gains there.
Plus it screwed with the idle governing a bit.  If this is normal it might ought to be mentioned to save people the bother.  Unless they just like to screw around like me. :) 
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: theman53 on February 26, 2010, 06:54:53 am
the only cars I have done it on are N/A. I loved the results. I had more pull through the RPM range especially mid and top. I couldn't get the bunny to break tires looses without wet grass and clutch dumping. After I could do in most of the time on dry pavement.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: maxfax on February 26, 2010, 06:59:58 am
I've done it on 3 n/a's..  I was pretty conservative with the shims, about 3 hardware store washers..  I was happy with 2 of the three, but all three showed improvement..  The one acted very similar to what your are describing Wolf.. 
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 26, 2010, 10:54:09 am
The stock governor in the Bosch VE pumps starts to cut fuel somewhere around 2200rpm.. and by 2800rpm you are left with only 20% of the total fueling you started with. By doing this modification and essentially allowing fuel fueling (as much as the motor can take before smoking like a chimney) at and above 2500 is a huge improvement. You will govern with your foot, to you liking. Instead of having a spring assembly do it for you ;)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: rabbitman on February 26, 2010, 01:37:56 pm
I've thought of doing this for a few years but it never made sense why it would give me more power if I'm already smoking black........I can perdy much floor it at any rpm and belch soot everywhere ;D.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on February 26, 2010, 07:40:22 pm
I've thought of doing this for a few years but it never made sense why it would give me more power if I'm already smoking black........I can perdy much floor it at any rpm and belch soot everywhere ;D.

I've seen this point brought up a few times and never heard an answer.  I'd like to though.

Hell I just turned my full load screw back today to get down to just a tiny bit of smoke on WOT.
I swear it runs better, I found myself speeding on the way home from work on a road
I've driven twice a day for the last 6 months.  In the spirit of full disclosure my pump has a lot of miles
on it and sat for a long time.  I just re-sealed it and it seems to start and run and such fine, but it's got
to be tired after 300K miles that I know of.  Maybe that has something to do with it?
I was very conservative shimming also.  I'll have another car up and running in a few months I can try again on.

It'd be neat to hear some before and after results of a 3rd or 4th gear WOT accel from 35mph to 55mph on
flat ground or something like that.  I think the A1 Bentley lists acceptable numbers, my trans isn't stock so I haven't
compared mine (also I'm afraid how far off it might be). :)



Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 26, 2010, 10:05:55 pm
I've thought of doing this for a few years but it never made sense why it would give me more power if I'm already smoking black........I can perdy much floor it at any rpm and belch soot everywhere ;D.

I think the fact that you can belch black with out having done the governor mod, means that you are simply getting too much fuel to early and not enough air to make combustion happen. (??) Turning up the fuel screw (allowing more fuel to be injected) and doing the governor mod (determining when that fuel is injected) are two different fueling aspects of the pump. Do the mod, P&P the head, free up the intake and the exhaust AND turn the fuel up.. WHOA, you'll be melting some stuff easy! lol

Another train of thought one must think of, is that simply turning up the fuel screw on a stock pump is not really doing anything for performance.. its all being wasted to smoke anyway! The pump will still start to govern at 2300 and will still have cut the fuel by %80 at 27-2800rpm.. I dunno about you.. but only having idle-2300 of %100 fueling, is simply not enough.

You know when your driving your car (stock pump) and you feel the acceleration hit a wall? that's about 2500 where fueling is close to %50. THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES IF YOU ONLY LET THE ENGINE HAVE ALL THE FUEL IT WANTS!? ;)

It'd be neat to hear some before and after results of a 3rd or 4th gear WOT accel from 35mph to 55mph on
flat ground or something like that.  I think the A1 Bentley lists acceptable numbers, my trans isn't stock so I haven't
compared mine (also I'm afraid how far off it might be).

When I do mine, along with a new head seal on it.. I will take some readings.. I'll let four butt dyno's have a go at it stock, and then gov modded, and then gov modded and intake and exhaust work. See how she turns out.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on February 26, 2010, 10:43:24 pm
But, if it's smoking hard on up to redline or as close as a person get's to it, how can it not have enough fuel?
Most NA's in average condition will smoke at most any RPM with more than half or so throttle, least the dozen I've
spent any time with over the years have.  If it's smoking at WOT at the top of each gear, is it still not fuelled enough?
If the governor is pulling fuel progressively more I'd expect to see a bunch of smoke up to 3000-3500rpm, then it tapering off
accompanying that "hitting a wall" feeling.  Sort of like the way running out of cam feels on a gasser.  I feel the wall-hitting, but
still see the smoke.
Maybe it's something more complex?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 26, 2010, 11:50:02 pm
Maybe it's something more complex?

Just a little bit. Fueling is fully cut (%80) by 2800rpm. 3500rpm in gear is attained very very slowly actually, as you are really only running on %20 of available fueling. Your right N/a's smoke pretty much all the time I would think because of no forced induction, and PEWNY exhaust system. It may be smoking at WOT in the top of each gear, but it is not getting the full potential out of the fuel you are blowing out the tailpipe. Just because the fuel is not being used (black smoke) doesn't mean it is adequately fueled. The fuel is injected at the wrong time in the process, pump timing will also play a big part on amount of smoke I believe.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on February 27, 2010, 11:07:13 am
I could totally believe injection time being not optimal at higher rpm's, especially on older pumps, contributing to smoking.
I don't understand how black smoke could be not adequately fueled.
Unless it's an injection time issue.  Does the gov mod alter dynamic timing somehow?

Would it be more accurate to say a NA motor needs some supporting modifications to make the gov mod really effective?




Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: theman53 on February 27, 2010, 11:28:15 am
When I did mine to the N/A's I usually turned the fuel screw DOWN. It smoked even more with the gov mod. I did my exhaust before doing this so I don't know what it would be like with out a 2.5" exhaust. After I did a 3" pvc intake and got to turn up the fuel screw more. I had more power, tons. I could go up mast hill without shifting...
All that being said I think it does change some of the advance. I also think that instead of RPM's slowly rising and waiting for the pump to reach full advance, it climbs RPM's faster with the fuel to help the advance. It is almost feels like when you stomp the go pedal it makes the engine take the fuel and go. Before it seemed like you needed a wind or downhill to make it do that. It was the second best mod I did to the N/A. First being the pvc air intake.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on February 27, 2010, 11:34:45 am
Maybe that's the deal, turn down the overall fueling but use the gov mod to add/retain more fuel at higher rpm's?


Mine was a slug with the main spring shimmed at lower rpm's and it suddenly came back to what I'd call a normal
amount of power at maybe 3K or so.  It was unproductive driving around town at light accel though unless I wound it out and
kept my foot pretty far in it. 
I'll try it again one day.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: theman53 on February 27, 2010, 11:43:25 am
From what I noticed you have to take the pump top off...From the test plant they put a bunch of paint on all of the bolts holding it together. I think it is so if someone takes it apart they know. I also think it is important as a locator. You don't even have to take it completely apart, just loosen it up and the top of the pump will move *mine did at least* probably a 1/4" left to right and an 1/8" back and forth. If that happens and you don't sit it on there just as it was the fuel screw could be 2 turns off either way from where it was eventhough you didn't touch it. I wiggled mine around until it was in the middle and had to mess with the fuel screw a bunch until it seemed to be back to normal, then up it went:D
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on February 27, 2010, 12:50:17 pm
You know I'd not noticed that but you are probly right, I bet there is some play in there.  I've re-sealed a couple of pumps and always have had to fiddle with the full load screw to find happy idle again.  I'd assumed I had got it off some even with the collar still there and having marked it, but that makes sense.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: rabbitman on February 27, 2010, 01:16:31 pm
I have much to learn.........

I can accelerate easily to 4000rpm in 3rd, I don't even have to floor it, 4th takes a little longer to get there but I'm pretty sure I can also blow black at that rpm.

One thing that might affect mine is I cut the fuel stop pin off inside the IP so I think it is capable of fueling more than a TD pump.

Maybe I'll try it and see what happens, first I gotta open up the intake...........
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: maxfax on February 28, 2010, 12:12:01 am
Come to think of it, all 3 cars I did it on had exhaust and intake molestation done prior..  I did have to turn the fuel down on all three after doing the gov mod, but it may have been cranked up a bit much to begin with.....
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: NintendoKD on February 28, 2010, 12:52:27 am
this is interesting, I have been trying to discover the key component in why it is that limits the rpm's now that I know that it is not the pump or the swirl chambers, now it is the cam and valve float, great to know.  This is a long time coming and a lot of hard work has gone into this, thanks guys for an excellent writeup.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 28, 2010, 08:49:58 am
My engine is bone a bone stock '81. When I do this mod in the near future, (After I get an EGT) I will be sure to take some performance runs at Stock everything, Stock intake and exhaust and fuel screw with gov mod, Mod the intake stock exhaust and fuel screw with gov mod, then modded everything.. Intake, Exhaust, Gov, Fuel Screw, Maybe even Timing Advance Mod ;)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on February 28, 2010, 12:51:25 pm

That would be very cool.
I've had the thought several times of a performance database.  VW publishes acceleration numbers in
seconds for these things, we ought to be able to put together a table of like data with mods and trans ratio
and tire size, elevation, etc, etc.  It'd be handy I think.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on February 28, 2010, 12:57:38 pm
Thats a super idea, start a thread about it. Really. Like ask people to go out and do a bunch of performance oriented drives.. get them to tell you their entire setup, and put it in the FAQ's.

I probably won't be doing it anytime soon, I need to get an EGT first ;) Don't wanna start my own metal forgery lol
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: rabbitman on March 01, 2010, 01:45:19 am

That would be very cool.
I've had the thought several times of a performance database.  VW publishes acceleration numbers in
seconds for these things, we ought to be able to put together a table of like data with mods and trans ratio
and tire size, elevation, etc, etc.  It'd be handy I think.

That would be interesting to see........'course, some people's 52HP rabbits are much faster than other people's 52HP rabbits........
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on March 01, 2010, 10:37:16 pm

That would be very cool.
I've had the thought several times of a performance database.  VW publishes acceleration numbers in
seconds for these things, we ought to be able to put together a table of like data with mods and trans ratio
and tire size, elevation, etc, etc.  It'd be handy I think.

That would be interesting to see........'course, some people's 52HP rabbits are much faster than other people's 52HP rabbits........

Yeah, it'd require no small amount of honesty and consistency.  And what alllllways happens is someone who thinks there's is a lot
faster than it actually is ends up fudging stuff and it all craps out.  I guess maybe after awhile we could establish a "normal" range.
Hmm.. 

Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: rabbitman on March 18, 2010, 10:51:44 pm
Well I did the Gov Mod today, I was doing an oil change and thought "I shouldn't..........but I will" so I did :P.

Took about 15-20 minutes, shimmed it with a thin nut and thin washer so about 3/16". I didn't mark the lever on top but it has lots of tick marks with one correct one so I got it right after only a couple trys, first try was gonna be full power so I had to shut it off quick.

I'll let you all know how it turns out ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: rabbitman on March 19, 2010, 03:35:42 am
My pump was set up like this http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21600.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=21600.0) one spline off, and doing the gov mod I put it back on the right spline.

It's weird, I used to have good bottom end power with very little pedal but lots of smoke, now I gotta floor it to get that much umph. Also the smoke did thin way out at high rpm.

But it doesn't smoke half as bad at low rpm yet continues pulling fairly hard 'til the end, I let off at about 4800rpm.

At full pedal there is a wisp of smoke throughout the rpm range and the EGT's only get up to 1150F instead of 1250+F (it only went that high at low rpm).
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 19, 2010, 01:41:24 pm
So..

Happy  :D

or

Not Satisfied  >:(

lol, did you notice if it were much more profitable over Andrew's link? Better power throughout, instead of just at the top?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: rabbitman on March 19, 2010, 02:48:30 pm
It's been so long since it was setup stock that it's hard to tell :-\, it seems like Andrew's link made better power in the low speeds but that could just be because I have to floor it now to get the same affect.

I think I like this better than with the lever on the stock splines and the fuel screw screwed in, now I can get a consistent idle but still have full fueling up top.

And though I really enjoy being able to smoke lots like Andrews thing it's nice to not worry about egts as much.

So overall I like it, I don't really spend much time at high rpm anyway but you never know, this might change that!!! ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: rabbitman on March 19, 2010, 06:40:33 pm
The two adjustments/modifications are for two different purposes.  The governor mod affects when the governor starts to cut fuel, the adjustment of the lever to shaft orientation changes the amount of max fuel you can have with it still able to idle.  Adjustment of the governor should be used in conjunction with adjustment of the shaft to lever orientation.

So you're saying I should advance the lever one spline like it was before I did the gov mod? Or only if I want more smoke?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on March 19, 2010, 07:18:39 pm
So you're saying I should advance the lever one spline like it was before I did the gov mod? Or only if I want more smoke?

What did I miss? 
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 19, 2010, 09:35:25 pm
So basically, the governor mod should be done on every pump;) whereas the other method Andrew posted should only be done if you want more fuel throughout the entire rpm range..

Andrew thanks for cpearinf this up :)

I need money! I want to do this mod so badly! I need an egt gauge, before I do anything.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Smokey Eddy on April 01, 2010, 01:39:18 pm
So basically, the governor mod should be done on every pump;) whereas the other method Andrew posted should only be done if you want more fuel throughout the entire rpm range..

Andrew thanks for cpearinf this up :)

I need money! I want to do this mod so badly! I need an egt gauge, before I do anything.

buy prothes... it works fine. the range is just a little stupid high.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on April 01, 2010, 02:22:37 pm
So basically, the governor mod should be done on every pump;) whereas the other method Andrew posted should only be done if you want more fuel throughout the entire rpm range..

Andrew thanks for cpearinf this up :)

I need money! I want to do this mod so badly! I need an egt gauge, before I do anything.

buy prothes... it works fine. the range is just a little stupid high.

*still doesnt own an EGT gauge*

havent burnt down an engine yet, but then again, i usually have way more than enough air for the fuel im burning.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Smokey Eddy on April 02, 2010, 03:15:37 am
This is true... i can't get mine into the danger zone if i tried but it IS a good indication at how much fuel im burning at lower rpm.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: chrisg on May 18, 2010, 12:53:46 am
so before i do this, i want to make sure its as easy as it sounds...

when i open the pump, do i have to worry about air bubbles in the fuel? or do i have to re-prime the fuel system?

ALSO

my engine is pretty much stock and guttless(1.6 N/A)
after i do the governer mod, i should just put it all back together and be fine. and if it idles funny then move the accelerator lever clockwise a notch?

sorry if its been covered, i just kinda want a "matter of fact" break down aha

thanks in advanced
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 18, 2010, 06:26:35 am
Pretty much stock? Or completely stock? ;) What do you have done? This mod will allow way more fuel then the stock engine can handle AT EVERY RPM. Without an EGT gauge you will be kind of tempting fate, and need to monitor the amount of smoke you belch out. Keep it next to none, or you will melt this motor down. I suggest getting an EGT gauge before doing this mod.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: chrisg on May 18, 2010, 09:47:29 pm
so if i do this and there is too much smoke, should i just back the smoke screw off some?

i don't plan to keep this engine for long, aaz swap is planned for late summer.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 18, 2010, 09:49:59 pm
This mod will for sure Raise EGT's, if you monitor things, and dont plan for it to last, DO IT.

There will be full fueling allowed, so there will be no more hitting a wall at 3000rpm when the engine still obviously wants to pull. If your out smoking a Dodge Cummins, you need to lay off the pedal a little or you WILL have your own little metal forgery ;)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on May 19, 2010, 12:11:27 am
Did my pump a few weeks back - I actually had to get in to it anyhow as I managed to snap off the idle control lever (don't ask).  Since I had to take the pump top off anyhow I figured I might as well git'r dun...

Only thing I'd add to the HOWTO here is it's way easier to get the pump top back on if you back the max fuel screw way out first.  The other thing is I couldn't get my car to rev above idle AT ALL until I'd gotten a lot of the air out of my pump.  I definitely would have been better off priming it with a mityvac or something.  I've got the style of filter with the circulation valve - it made sure as much of the air got back in to the filter and pump again as possible.  :P

How's she drive?  Awesome, so much more fun.  Jezebel wants to rattle my teeth out in the higher 3K's but it seems like she's smoothing out more as time goes on (could just be me though).  With the stock governor getting much above 3200 RPM was an exercise in futility.  I think the highest I'd ever seen was 3400 because at that point there really was no point - if you don't drop a gear you ain't going any faster.  Post mod I've gone up as high as 4400 on a hard pull - that's plenty high for me.  Anything higher and when I upshift I'm on the wrong side of the torque peak anyhow.

I used a roller out of a piece of bicycle chain as my shim.  Fit was ok, it's good hardened steel so I know it won't get chewed up.  Seems to be plenty thick enough while still leaving some play.  I would ALMOST say my governor is starting to kick in around that 4400 mark but again, I really don't want to test that theory much.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 19, 2010, 09:54:49 am
Do you have a tach Bryn? I'd say these engines are pretty golden up to minimum of 55-5700 rpm. Stock governor floored in neutral will only spin the engine at 5300, and it will spin that rpm all day long. 4500 is well within its safe zone :)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on May 22, 2010, 10:51:15 pm
Do you have a tach Bryn? I'd say these engines are pretty golden up to minimum of 55-5700 rpm. Stock governor floored in neutral will only spin the engine at 5300, and it will spin that rpm all day long. 4500 is well within its safe zone :)

Yup, I have a factory tach... 

I know it SHOULD be safe to spin her up more, but this engine was previously topping out in the mid 3's so I'm kind of not eager to go too far into uncharted territory too quickly.  Went out for a nice long drive today and had a few upper 4K runs, then promptly tossed my PS pump belt.  D'oh.  I'm DEFINITELY liking the extra range - I had an impromptu drag with a gasser Mk III today and I was pulling ahead slightly.  That was really always my goal - to have the diesel be at least equal to an ABA 2.0L.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 22, 2010, 10:52:58 pm
That was really always my goal - to have the diesel be at least equal to an ABA 2.0L.

Saaahhwweeet. I rev it out to 5000 regularly lol
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: gldgti on June 24, 2010, 03:25:03 am
AAZ version....

Did the gov mod on my aaz last week.... a couple of things to note:

1) I was very surpirised to see that my pump had NO idle spring. I thought this was weird. Anyway, I shimmed the main spring and got it all back together and running, same spline on the lever - BUT, i added an idle spring from another pump I had.....

2) Addition of the idle spring has made performance WORSE. I definately have a little better top end now, but it feels like max pedal is not as much fuel as it used to be (confirmed by both EGT's and smoke). I think this is because the addition of the idle spring has "softened" the first 2/3's of the levers movement so much, that full pedal is not pulling on the governor lever like it used to (directly, without a spring between the spring capsule and back side of gov lever).

I will be removing the idle spring shortly, and will report back. Depending on the results, this could be the point at which we all realise that if you do have the external idle control lever fitted to the pump, you dont need hte idle spring at all!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: gldgti on June 24, 2010, 05:11:36 am
UPDATE on above post:

First, note that I did replace the accelerator cable lever to the same spline position as original after the gov mod, and adding an idle spring.

I have just gone out and (after re-reading libbybapa's post about adjusting the lever arm splines) tried adjusting the shaft clockwise as suggested. I also screwed in the max fuel screw 1 turn. Car started and ran but idle was low (650) and wouldnt revf above 2000. So then attempted to screw in the max fuel screw - BUT, it was alrealy almost all the way in! I could only add 1/8 turn.

So, I counter-counter-intuitively moved the shaft back 2 splines (anticlockwise 1 spline from the orinial position) and screwed the max fuel out 2 turns. Car started, but had low idle, but would rev up well. So, I adjusted the max fuel in until the idle was back up to 1000. Now, the car revs up really fast and blows black at full throttle.

So, to clarify - I added an idle spring to the governor spring mechanism where there was previously no spring (I dont know why there was no spring). In order to get the accelerator response to be back to normal, I have needed to adjust the accelerator shaft ANTI-clockwise 1 spline.

I do believe, however, that the max fuel screw is now ina bit further than it was before i did the governor mod. Idle doesnt hang and revs drop off quickly. I will report back results soon.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: burn_your_money on June 25, 2010, 12:15:07 am
You don't have an idle spring because you have fast idle. I guess technically you still do have the spring, it's just in a different spot and is a different style.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: gldgti on June 28, 2010, 04:43:36 am
the aaz fast idle control is the same mechanism that is pictured in the 1.6 pumps.... its just that on the aaz, its controlled by a vacuum can instead of a lever from the cold start.... otherwise its just the same, internally.

anway - results are that:

a) I didnt put enough shims with the main spring - i only shimmed it about 2mm and performance is definately up, but i know its got more.
b) the addition of the idle spring to the main speed control mechanism hasnt really had much effect, other than causing me to have to move the lever on the splines.
c) I have fantastic performance with not a lot o smoke at all now. I cna also dial in more fuel and keep my idle low, it goes quite fast then but EGT's are a little high so i've backed it off until i change turbo's again.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on June 28, 2010, 01:57:16 pm
nuts to the rescue again!

made my car go faster with a brass nut.. probably about 2.5mm
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: gldgti on July 02, 2010, 04:18:57 am
yeah i have some nice high tensile nuts to use.

Rabbitonroids - if you really did use a brass nut, it might not be a great ideal over a long time, incase hte harder spring wears the nut away... just a thought.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on July 03, 2010, 01:01:38 pm
i think i put a shim between the spring and nut.. but its not like those things do alot of sliding around.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: RadoTD on July 05, 2010, 01:38:26 am
One thing I can't seem to find clear info on is the effect on the RPM limiter. On the first page, Eddy said he shimmed the main spring solid and was bouncing off of the rev limiter at just over 6000rpm. Would this have been rollers skipping instead?

Has anyone tested to see what rpm you can hit with a partially shimmed governor? Preferably with some load on the engine.

I'm just thinking that during a hard 2nd gear pull, if one were to get the turbo(s) spooled nicely then hit a bump, tires can break loose and go from 4000rpm to much higher very quickly. Particularly with my 1.9, that's a situation I'd like to try and avoid. I'm tempted to order an Auber Instruments mag pick up and gauge and have it cut the 12V solenoid at whatever rpm.

Any insight to this?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on July 05, 2010, 01:03:17 pm
with power, and you hit a bump, the tires definitely break loose. you either hold 'er floored till it hooks up, or let out and get back on it.

a little more insight, these engines are designed after a gasser. 1.6 is very close to 1.6/1.8 gasser engines. and the 1.9s are basically diesel ABAs. our bottom ends will take whatever we can throw at them. they turn ABAs 7500revs on stock bottom ends. and even more on the 1.6/1.8 engines. our engines will do the same if they were fueled to do so. the rollers start skipping at around 6500 or so ive been told. if someone fit bigger springs from a 10 or 11mm pump head, on the 9mm pump, it would probably give you another thousand rpms worth of revs before they started skipping. but you would need that much more fuel to spin more revs.

i think we are pretty safe to rev these engines to the moon. the pump simply wont let anything turn unsafely high rpms.

you can put a rev limiter on it if you want, but i have heard of a auto-xer that mis shifted and hit 9000rpms, it didnt run afterwards, but it wasnt injured either. the adjuster pucks flew out of the lifters.

i know im getting close to my rollers skipping on my pump, cause my rabbit and GTI have similar, not real close, but sorta similar gears. it flat out eats my gti alive tho.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: RadoTD on July 06, 2010, 12:08:37 pm
Sooo, just grow some balls and git-er-done?

9000rpm? My tach would swing around and hit the needle at zero! :D
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: NintendoKD on July 08, 2010, 07:03:35 am
you could do all of this or just see Jedi Master Giles, I plan to hit the upper limit of the 7000 rpm range with my build, using mech lifters I don't forsee any problems, however my build is super intense
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on July 09, 2010, 02:34:29 pm
Sooo, just grow some balls and git-er-done?

9000rpm? My tach would swing around and hit the needle at zero! :D

dude, ive got a turbo @ 20 psi, a gov mod, and some other work done to my engine. im still using stock VW gauges, no EGT, no oil pressure, nothing. it sees 6000 - 6500 rpms too.. im sure it does, it pulls more revs than my GTI.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 19, 2010, 03:51:14 am
Im a little confused by this, judging by this video bosch diesel ve governor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j0vrfaXPmw#)

Its not until after 4000 revs that the main spring begins to govern the fuel?

Can someone please explain how just shimming the main spring changes the fueling lower down the rev range?

I can understand how adjusting the Intermediate spring would adjust the fueling below 4000 revs, but Ive heard you idle and all kind are messed up by adjusting the inter spring
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on July 19, 2010, 08:37:39 am
I just woke up, but if my brain is up and running yet.. If your seeing 4000 at the crank sprocket, are you not seeing only 2000 (approx. half) at the pump sprocket? Is he getting an accurate reading there by doing this? Is he showing 6000 crank rpms.. or 6000 pump rpms?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 19, 2010, 11:24:57 am
Reading through the comment on youtube "Yes, half the crank speed, It's why you see two reflective band on the pulley to simulate crank RPM." Which would indicate that main spring is only governing at 4000+ rpm?

Im far from an expert in these pump and dont claim to have even near to knowledge of some people I just found this video interesting as it appears to indicate that the main springs is not restricting below 4000?

Also I believe that sort of test rig is reasonably accurate yes
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: theman53 on July 19, 2010, 11:46:26 am
It isn't just above 4,000, but that is about where there is nothing left. It starts to cut around that 2,000 give or take some, but is pretty much no more fuel than that 2,000 point at the 4,000 point IIRC. If you do this mod you will see the difference. It is amazing. I turned the max fuel screw down as I didn't need it as much after the mod.
The spring is hard to watch with the Tach here, but if you do you will see it move a little at those rpms.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on July 19, 2010, 12:50:17 pm
gov mod does nothing for low end power really, it just gives full fueling at all rpms..
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 20, 2010, 04:43:10 am
I dont doubt the mod works, too many people have claimed the benefits for it not to work, I just dont understand how it can affect the fueling by only shimming the main spring when it looks as though it has almost zero, if not zero movement until over 4000 revs.

I could understand shimming the middle spring would alter the fueling below 4000 alot, however I believe this leads to rough idling and other such problems
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: theman53 on July 20, 2010, 08:04:37 am
In that video it is very difficult to look at the spring and the tach. It is moving, but you don't really know when until you look down, by that time the tach may have jumped 1500 rpm. Also, it doesn't have to move but a .01 of an inch to cut fuel. Your eyes aren't that good. What you are saying is good in theory, but you just can't see it move the little bits like the other springs that are relatively easy to compress.
Shimming the intermedite spring leads to on/off switch in the intermediate rpms. It yeilds poor drivabiltiy. The idle spring I believe if you shim that it will give you erradic idle only controllable by the fueling screw IIRC.
If you can find a way to do it better that is what we are here for. As simple of an operation as the shim is though I will not be joining you on that voyage. I will just let you take that over.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 20, 2010, 10:19:28 am
Im in no way trying to better what anyone has done or looking to start an argument saying anyone is wrong in what they say, just found the video interesting.

If you say the spring is moving below 4000 revs I will believe you agreed neither the video quality of my eyes are good enough to say otherwise.

Car goes for its MOT on thursday and will have the gov mod done by Friday morning anyway hehe
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: rabbitman on July 20, 2010, 11:50:49 pm
I don't know if I'm seeing things or what but up to about 3000rpm I can see the intermediate spring compressing, then starting at about 4400rpm the main spring starts compressing and by 4700rpm it looks like it's fully compressed.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 23, 2010, 11:29:10 am
I have done this mod today, however somehow I had made a mistake.

I took the head off and shimmed the main spring, refitted the spring and moved the head about until it seated in position and bolted it up.

I then re-installed the spring assembly and everything bolted up fine.

Primed the pump, turned her over, but theres nothing coming out of any of the 4 injector lines.

If I remove the return pipe from the pump fuel is being pumped round and out the return, just nothing is going down the injector lines so obviously she wont fire up.

I was very careful to make sure I did not get dirt inside the pump, however something has gone wrong somewhere.

The wire is also still connected to the stop solenoid.

I had had the head on and off 3 times today and still no success getting fuel to the injectors with or without the shimms in, if it was dirt the chances of it blocking all 4 injector lines would but almost impossible no?

Is there something on the head I could be missing connecting up correctly that would cause this problem?

Im thinking its either something along those lines or I still have air trapped in the system somehow and need to find a way to get it all out, but dont know how too!

Im really stuck and need help ive tried all day but cant get anywhere.

Thanks
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: burn_your_money on July 23, 2010, 11:43:22 am
When you say head you mean top cover right?

I would remove the peg and spring from the stop solenoid and see if you get fuel to the injectors then. Be aware that you won't be able to turn the car off, you will have to stall it.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 23, 2010, 11:46:35 am
Yeah I mean top cover, I will try removing the peg and spring and see if anything changes.

Could it be some sort of air lock still even though its pump to the return?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on July 23, 2010, 12:02:03 pm
you didnt put the throttle lever back in the same spot, or didnt get the max fuel screw back to the same spot. the throttle is just too low to inject any fuel would be my guess..

and there is a way for ONE piece of dirt to block all 4 injectors.. get a chunk of dirt in the feed for the pump element.. there is only one piston and bore, pumping fuel into 4 different pipes. all 4 pipes have the same fuel intake inside the pump..

i really doubt that happened tho. you just messed up the throttle system. you took the max fuel screw out before you took the pump off, right?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 23, 2010, 03:46:25 pm
Havnt found the cause of it not getting fuel out for the injectors yet but Ive just made a problem ten times the size for myself.

In removing the head and trying to fit it yet again, somehow I have managed to loose the tiny waited arm bit that connects the small spring  ::)

Now I dont know if its gone inside the pump or down the back, but either way I am going to have to remove the pump and drain it to try and find it now.

Im really worried as Im kind of well out of my depths now, really wish I hadnt done this, but theres no point getting stressed about it all I can do is try and resolve the issue!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: rabbitman on July 23, 2010, 04:43:17 pm
What do you mean by "waited arm"?

Screwing the max fuel screw in would most likely have fixed it. If no that then reindexing the lever on top would have done it.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: burn_your_money on July 23, 2010, 06:21:57 pm
Use one of the magnets on a flexible shaft and go fishing inside the pump. What kind of pump are you working on?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 24, 2010, 02:48:33 am
Its a pump of a GTD so the 1.6td pump

I tried turning the max fuel screw in, still didnt start, no matter what the throttle was doing it still wouldnt start either  :(

The bit i mean attaches the shaft that goes through the outside of the pump to the cold start spring, its got a tiny weight on 1 side and a hoop to attach the spring on the other side.

Was thinking about a magnet on a shaft, however Ive got nothing suitable
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Rabbit on Roids on July 24, 2010, 03:06:29 pm
Havnt found the cause of it not getting fuel out for the injectors yet but Ive just made a problem ten times the size for myself.

In removing the head and trying to fit it yet again, somehow I have managed to loose the tiny waited arm bit that connects the small spring  ::)

Now I dont know if its gone inside the pump or down the back, but either way I am going to have to remove the pump and drain it to try and find it now.

Im really worried as Im kind of well out of my depths now, really wish I hadnt done this, but theres no point getting stressed about it all I can do is try and resolve the issue!

the "head" is on the back of the pump just so you know. its got 4 fuel lines coming out of it, and the stop solenoid mounted in it. i believe you are calling the top of the pump, the head? the boost enrichment can? has a boost line going to it. thats the pump top, not the pump head..

and just fish the parts out of the pump and put them back where they go. why were you taking the pump this far apart anyway? did you even get the throttle shaft hooked back up to the throttle arm? do you have any idea what you are REALLY doing?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: OM617 on July 24, 2010, 05:46:54 pm
do you have any idea what you are REALLY doing?

Rotary pumps are ridiculously easy to take apart and put back together.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 25, 2010, 03:07:36 am
My apologise for calling the top the head didnt realise it was such a problem, no I wasnt removing the head I was removing the top as I was only doing a gov mod.

I did however remove the pump and find the part yesterday, it was snapped though hence why it had fallen inside the pump.

Think Im just going to end up buying a new pump at this rate, really messed up this gov mod.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Robb on July 26, 2010, 10:08:21 am
Got the part I messed up fabricated locally, so put the pump back together and after alot of bleeding Its no getting fuel up the the injectors.

Ive just messed up the timing of the fuel pump as the sprocket needs setting to the correct timing with the cam and crank, once that it done hopefully she should fire.

At least I have got the pump running fine again though with the shimms on the governor
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: smutts on October 06, 2010, 06:37:31 am
Quote
Rotary pumps are ridiculously easy to take apart and put back together.
and to f**k up in the process. ::)

What I have never got about the govenor mod is how is it better than adjusting the max speed stop screw for more goodness? You get most of the advantages without the hassles of surgery. Also the yearly U.K. MOT test involves some monkey leadfooting the car to the governed speed in neutral, (at YOUR risk!) This is for testing emitted smoke. Emitted engine internals can be avoided by readjusting the max speed screw, then put back once passed. This seems to be a right pain if you've got to gut your pump twice every year. :P
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on October 06, 2010, 06:49:41 pm
It's about area under the curve, not max RPM.
For testing, you take your gov moded  pump, and turn the max speed screw until it cuts out at something near stock, no biggie.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on October 06, 2010, 09:56:04 pm
Yes, Smutts you are only raising the max rpm when adjusting the max speed screw.

When doing the governor mod, you are altering the fuel curve that the pump sends the engine. With just turning the screw, sure the governor may give you a little bit more fuel at 4700+ (when it cuts fueling).. but the gov mod will give you more fuel from idle on up to BOOM-RPM
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: smutts on October 14, 2010, 01:10:03 pm
Right, I will do a bit more reading on my Bosch book ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: knowtwodrugs on February 02, 2011, 05:02:07 am
So has anyone tried shimming the idle spring and then adjusting the fuel screw to get more fuel at the bottom end without causing major idle headaches?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 01, 2011, 11:45:06 pm
Sorry I didn't see this till now..

Messing with the idle spring doesn't seem to make sens to me.. what would it accomplish? It only provides fueling while idling.

Doing the way that is listed in this thread will increase fueling at all off idle rpm's including the bottom end.

when i wrote this I scoured the web for all the info i could find, and none of the information i found had any gains from shimming the other springs.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Alcaid on March 02, 2011, 06:12:00 pm
What size shims does seem to fit? (OD, ID)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Alcaid on April 17, 2011, 04:56:07 pm
What size shims does seem to fit? (OD, ID)

For us metric guys I shimmed up my governor with M4 washers (ID 4.3mm, OD 9.0mm), perfect fit and now my mk1 GTD revs like a maniac ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on April 18, 2011, 12:26:59 pm
So has anyone tried shimming the idle spring and then adjusting the fuel screw to get more fuel at the bottom end without causing major idle headaches?

shimming the idle, or intermediate spring, will make it very hard to drive..

the idle spring is tiny, you can almost breathe on it too hard and compress it. why would you want to shim it?

the only spring that needs to be shimmed, is the main spring. thats what takes care of the upper RPM fuel cut anyways..

those 2 other springs are fully compressed by like 3k rpms..

and as was stated, washers/nuts work good for shimming the governor.. i think i used m6 or m8 nuts to shim mine.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 17, 2011, 10:50:18 pm
Just updated the bottom of the original post! CHECK IT OUT
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: DieselBalz on May 17, 2011, 11:43:09 pm
In the new pics, that looks like the Eco pump, no?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 18, 2011, 07:31:16 am
Not an Eco, my engine is Non-Turbo. that is a 1991 N/a motor in my 84.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on May 18, 2011, 12:08:05 pm
its amazing the difference even doing it to a n/a huh?

my diesel would ALMOST keep up with my GTI when i cranked up the fuel, did the gov mod, opened up the intake, and put a header on it..
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 18, 2011, 01:31:07 pm
Well if you think about it, taking away the fueling issues.. It is still a Fuel Injected 1.6 motor. It is producing probably about the same as a 1.6 FI gas.  Intake, Exhaust, and a port job should make some OK power out of one. A giles pump on all of that would be off the hook.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on May 18, 2011, 01:57:09 pm
Well if you think about it, taking away the fueling issues.. It is still a Fuel Injected 1.6 motor. It is producing probably about the same as a 1.6 FI gas.  Intake, Exhaust, and a port job should make some OK power out of one. A giles pump on all of that would be off the hook.

diesel has WAY more energy in it than gasoline, you should be able to build MORE power with a diesel, based on just the fuel.. but it doesnt work that way because diesel burns so slow.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Fredrikkk on May 18, 2011, 02:05:47 pm
Oh god, now that there's more pictures I'm feeling the pressure to do this mod.

*orders pump seal kit and mans up* :D
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 18, 2011, 03:34:49 pm
I kid you not, 80km/h in 2nd gear was absolutely no feat for it.. And I think that's like 5500 rpm's. At that point you could feel that the engine could still make power.. But the pump was physically topping out
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Fredrikkk on May 18, 2011, 05:56:07 pm
I see you shimmed the main spring completely solid. I recon that gives fueling all the way until the rollers skip, but how does that compare to say, shimming it with a couple of washers instead. I'd like to have fuller fueling up until at least 5,000 so I can support a bigger turbo easier :)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: J Z on May 18, 2011, 06:19:52 pm
The only problem with this mod is that you pretty quickly realize that you need a better clutch  :(
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 18, 2011, 06:31:16 pm
I see you shimmed the main spring completely solid. I recon that gives fueling all the way until the rollers skip, but how does that compare to say, shimming it with a couple of washers instead. I'd like to have fuller fueling up until at least 5,000 so I can support a bigger turbo easier :)

Well shimming it with only a little bit may not give you the fueling to 5000. I did a solid shim (ground down 6-7mm socket) only because it had it on hand and not washers when i opened my pump ;) You can feel the point when the power stops long before the rollers skip.. They weren't skipping at 5500.. but power was on the down slope of the curve, so 3rd gear was ready.

I don't find it so. The car doesn't have anymore power down low at engagement levels of rpms.. However if it is beginning to slip mid gear.. you needed one anyways ;)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Fredrikkk on May 19, 2011, 06:28:10 am
I see I see.

Well, I'll see if I can find anything to take the place of the main spring. I really want to be able to pull away from my buddy's 1.8 carb in 3rd gear  ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Alcaid on May 19, 2011, 06:38:26 am
I see I see.

Well, I'll see if I can find anything to take the place of the main spring. I really want to be able to pull away from my buddy's 1.8 carb in 3rd gear  ;D

Fredrikkk, go to Biltema and buy a box of M4 washers (ID 4.3mm, OD 9.0mm), costs next to nothing and fits perfect! I think i used 8 washers on the main spring to shim it solid.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: Fredrikkk on May 19, 2011, 01:42:12 pm
I see I see.

Well, I'll see if I can find anything to take the place of the main spring. I really want to be able to pull away from my buddy's 1.8 carb in 3rd gear  ;D

Fredrikkk, go to Biltema and buy a box of M4 washers (ID 4.3mm, OD 9.0mm), costs next to nothing and fits perfect! I think i used 8 washers on the main spring to shim it solid.
Nice!

Takk :)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on May 19, 2011, 02:04:19 pm
my car has a GC trans, and it will go 105, or 110 mph (speedo only goes to 100) topped out.. on the governor.

i can do ~80 mph in 3rd gear. ~50 mph in 2nd gear.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on May 19, 2011, 05:24:14 pm
I found my old delivery valve washers fit great.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 20, 2011, 03:39:33 pm
80 in 3rd with the GC would suggest 5950 rpms.. Your GC is the exact same as my FN 5spd minus 5th gear.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 21, 2011, 10:15:08 am
Just did a long highway haul last night. There is a piece of it where you do about a %15-20 climb linearly for about 3kms straight. 5th gear at 125km/h pulled that hill like no tomorrow. Before same hill would have required 4th gear and heavy pedal to maintain the same speed :)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on May 21, 2011, 12:39:37 pm
80 in 3rd with the GC would suggest 5950 rpms.. Your GC is the exact same as my FN 5spd minus 5th gear.

notice that i put a ~ in front of each speed.. maybe i should have said ~75 mph.. anyways.. you should on paper, be able to go faster than my car..
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 21, 2011, 02:37:14 pm
On paper a 1.6L carb'd with a GC will go faster than us both. You go faster than me off paper because you have a TD. You have more HP and TQ to propel your car above 5000 rpm's. I'll have to get out on a backroad and see my top speed, as I have hit 160km/h prior to this modification.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on May 21, 2011, 02:54:53 pm
On paper a 1.6L carb'd with a GC will go faster than us both. You go faster than me off paper because you have a TD. You have more HP and TQ to propel your car above 5000 rpm's. I'll have to get out on a backroad and see my top speed, as I have hit 160km/h prior to this modification.

only because the gasser is able to spin up a few more RPMs..
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: CRSMP5 on June 10, 2011, 12:31:34 am
well my rover pump is now modded... its a bit more fun due to the weird lever on the side the throttle linkage activates..
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: osti on June 10, 2011, 01:10:40 pm
I did the mod last week on a 1.6d NA and there is a difference not much, but you can feel that it is still making power after ~2500 rpm here it is how I shimmed the spring.

(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk224/itsomania/Golf/IMAG0605.jpg)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on June 10, 2011, 08:30:43 pm
The power above ~2500 is the DIFFERENCE! lol It now makes power to 4500+! Enjoy. ;)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on June 10, 2011, 08:44:32 pm
my engine pulls clear till the power goes flat.. i wish i had a tach..

and it doesnt just drop off a little bit, you plain just lose all the power you were just making.. just like you deployed the parachute before your run was over..
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on July 04, 2011, 11:35:55 am
I need a TURBO ;)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on July 04, 2011, 12:04:13 pm
I need a TURBO ;)

i been telling you that for years broski...
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: jimfoo on December 15, 2011, 08:09:40 pm
So are there any charts somewhere out there that show how the governor cuts fueling? For example, my engine will get to 5k RPM when floored. So I was wondering at say 3500 RPM for example, how much if any, fuel is being cut. I did my mod way back, so I'm not sure if the word was intermediate spring, or main spring back then. I do seem to remember some hanging issues. Guess I will have to look through my old pics and see if I took one of it. No sense taking it apart if I don't have to.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: theman53 on December 15, 2011, 11:11:04 pm
You were the one whom schooled me and I helped the fury back in the day. You shimmed the main spring but not fully is what you told me. You only shimmed about 1/8". you had shimmed the intermediate spring and said you had driveability issues.
Burn you money had a graph IIRC that showed stock gov started to cut fuel at 2500rpm and fully cut by redline. Memory could be decieving me, but that is how I recall it.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: jimfoo on December 16, 2011, 12:09:07 am
Hehe, thank goodness for younger brains. I may still shim it more eventually. But I'll have to work on a control lever first, then find what I did with my modded timing piston.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: the_mad_rabbit on January 02, 2012, 08:40:50 pm
Just a little FYI/Note for those of you who do this swap. I saw someone else in a different forum have the same issue of car starts, but won't rev.... it could also be related to the person who isn't getting any fuel from the motor. If you look at the lower retaining plate with the 1st spring (base), you will notice 2 horizontal lines stamped on the metal. These are very important ;)
Without any assembly on the car, ballpark idle settings on the idler on back of pump, fuel enrichment screw, and back the stub all the way back and tigten the 10mmx40mm nut to the shaft. Fire the car up, run out (or walk depending on how bad the idle is) and turn the 10mm nut with a wrench forward and backward, revving the motor. set part of the idle with the rear idler THEN the max fuel screw, rev a few times, and set the nut to where it sounds like its idling just a bit low. Turn off the motor, look into the shaft of the nut and see where the cutout is on the top of the govenor armature. make a mental note of where it is, unscrew the nut, then set the plate down with the 1st imprint lined up to the slot. (furthest back setting in relation to lowest idle). If you don't do this, like I did idiotically.... you can't rev the car, and you think that you did something wrong  ??? - at best, you'll screw the max fueling screw wayy the hell in to compensate, but the car will still feel like a dog, and not really do what its supposed to do. And, while you do that, you'll rev the car, and have the idle studdenly climb really high, really quickly, making you crap in your pants, which is what happened to me too  :o  :-\

Just did the govenor mod on my early aaz, and i must say- it feels a bit more powerful, but not anything insanely crazy (i've done a LOT of pump tuning that can be done externally to maximize fueling. I def. blow more smoke now, haha, and I'm ok pleased. The only reason why I did the mod is b/c my IP head seal was dumping fuel like eating a spicy burrito and having to go to the bathroom the next morning with flames shooting out of your butt. No more leaky IP = Yay. A bit more power = yay. My new hoses not getting ruined in 5k miles = Super yay. Need to hose them off to prevent any more damage.

Cheers!

-AJ
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: RedRotors on January 11, 2012, 01:58:56 pm
I had to put it in sticky.. :) Too well done !

Thumbs up !
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 11, 2012, 10:03:56 pm
RedRotors, thank-you.

Funny I wrote this DIY before I personally ever opened a pump ;). I was supah-pro my first time.

As it would seem from on going tomfoolery. After shimming my governor completely solid, that my max fuel screw is backed out 3/32 from stock setting of 31/32 of an inch. Measuring from the base of the fuel screw stop, to the tip of the screw itself.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: steevz on January 29, 2012, 01:03:08 pm
Thanks for the great write up 8v!

I did this mod yesterday when resealing my pump. Think you might be able to point me in the right direction for making a boost controller? Also, I block the BOV in the intake, but where do I put the hose off the valve cover.. just leave it disconnected?

Edit: Alright, got it figured and blocked off properly now. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 29, 2012, 01:04:23 pm
The line off the valve cover? I think you may have disconnected the wrong line?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 06, 2012, 11:50:50 pm
updated the first post.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: ToddA1 on March 18, 2012, 07:49:35 pm
I've got a question for those who have pulled the main spring and shimmed it solid.  I took apart a spare 1.6NA pump and replaced the main spring with a couple nuts and washers.  I got as close as I could to being perfect as I could so that I'd still be able to get the e-clip back on.

What I noticed is that when the assembly is put back in the cage, there's maybe 1/16" play that was never there before.  Without the spring putting preload onto the assembly, it's not perfectly tight.  I'm wondering if this is normal or if I need to lap another washer to get it as close to machinist perfect as possible. 

I'm thinking of maybe adding a shorter and softer spring or cutting the original, just to get the preload back.  The idea of softer is because that spring will be a bear to compress and hold when it comes time to put the e-clip back in.

I seriously doubt the governor would fall out, but I want to make sure before I put it in my truck's pump.  When I originally did the shimming on the pump that's in the truck, I didn't go crazy.... maybe 4mm, maximum.  Is there really a benefit to shimming more, or even solid?

-Todd
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on March 28, 2012, 11:15:40 am
Anyone gov modded an EcoDiesel pump? What are your results? I am thinking of doing it after adding EGT- already have tach and boost.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: theman53 on March 28, 2012, 12:16:12 pm
It would work the same. You will like it if you like more power.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on March 28, 2012, 04:45:50 pm
peak torque for my engine happens at 2400 rpm. Will this mod  change it?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on March 28, 2012, 06:12:49 pm
peak torque for my engine happens at 2400 rpm. Will this mod  change it?

Well with this mod you are not really changing the engines characteristics. So the engine should behave very similarly, just have more power at all rpm's, and especially above 2500rpm. With the eco pump you will never be able to physically move as much fuel as a normal 1.6 NA or 1.6TD pump, because you have the 8mm fuel head and they have the 9mm. But this governor mod will help you move significantly more than you were moving before :)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 02, 2012, 09:47:21 pm
Did the governor mod with a stainless steel 2.5 mm thick nut on the main spring as recommended here (thanks for the write up 8V).

Lot more power but also a lot more smoke if I gun the pedal. Love the extra power but it has an erratic idle. Sometimes it would be real low- to the point of stalling if I don't feather the throttle. Other times it would idle between 1500 to 1800 rpm. I tried adjusting the idle and fuel screw which didn't help. What did I screw up in the mod?

Here are some pics:

I made a spring compressor to make the job easier and no flying parts.

(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120401_111224.jpg)

This pic shows 2 nuts. I took one of them off before installing.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120401_111206.jpg)



I also had this emergency shut off ready in case I get a runaway. I tested it and it works! Shuts engine off in a split second.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120402_115213.jpg)

Before pulling the cover off, I sucked some fuel out via the Out bolt so as not to spill any diesel.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120401_121638.jpg)

 
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on April 02, 2012, 09:55:36 pm
So for clarity, I see that you have used two nuts on the main spring of the governor as per this write-up.

Don't suppose you grabbed a picture of it back in the throttle lever cage/piece??
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 03, 2012, 07:30:04 am
So for clarity, I see that you have used two nuts on the main spring of the governor as per this write-up.

Don't suppose you grabbed a picture of it back in the throttle lever cage/piece??

I used 2 nuts but took one out before installing it in the pump because it was too thick and made it difficult to insert the C-clip.
The one on the left with one nut is the modded governor for the EcoDiesel. The one on the right is from a Peugeot parts pump that I practiced on before working on the Eco.

(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120401_154427.jpg)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 04, 2012, 08:45:35 pm
Problem fixed!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on April 04, 2012, 08:47:09 pm
Problem fixed!

Please share your fix so that others coming to the thread may be able to solve their identical problem :)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on April 05, 2012, 12:05:07 am
I had to reseal so I shimmed mine 1 old DV washer.  It works, and the D24T will now rev I don't know how high...
Is still pulling at 5500 though.
I'm an idiot, and changed more than one thing at a time so....who knows...  At least it is faster than before, and doesn't leave a foot long pool of fuel when I park.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: ToddA1 on April 05, 2012, 12:14:35 am
Is that a copper sealing washer that you used?  I'd be leery of the spring wearing into it and having metal shavings in the pump.

-Todd
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on April 05, 2012, 04:13:02 pm
I'll be looking at it again soon enough, and will give it a good look over.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 05, 2012, 08:40:40 pm
Problem fixed!

Please share your fix so that others coming to the thread may be able to solve their identical problem :)

I didn't want to provide details until I drove it a bit to make sure it is really fixed. It was due to binding in the high speed idle lever of the cold start advance/ high speed idle system. When I took the pump cover off, I took the high speed idle lever off when I should have left it on and unhook the speing loaded rod instead. During reassembly, the o-ring on the high speed idle lever partially unseated and got pinched, causing it to bind. It also leaked a little fuel. After taking the cover off and reseated the o-ring the idle is normal.

The governor mod made my Jetta feel like a different car! It has substantially more power. If I mash the pedal I get lots of black smoke (none before) and the car just takes off with a lot more pep. I've been driving it with slow and steady acceleration in order to avoid smoke, which still gives much better power and acceleration than before. It is a completely different driving experience, more relaxed- less down shifting. On the hills that I drive often, I used to have to anticipate and speed up to 80 mph before approaching in order to make the top and maintain 60 mph without having to down shift. Now I stay in 5th w/o having to speed up and rely on momentum to make the top of the hill and maintain 60. I think I am getting better fuel economy also by being able to stay in 5th more often. Love the mod!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 30, 2012, 10:13:14 am
The governor mod been doing ok since I fixed the high idle issue. Although I do notice some changes such as I seem to have less smoke now than immediately after the mod. I also sometimes get a low idle after dropping from a high RPM.

I am going to try a solid shim to see if it corrects the low idle problem.

I want to make the solid shim out of Delrin. From what I can see, the shim is always under compression and there should not be any movement between the Delrin and seats in operation so I should not have any wear problems. The force on the Delrin is not that great, just the intermediate spring so I think it should be fine. Any opinions?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on April 30, 2012, 08:14:38 pm
There is two larger springs in the head of the pump that the governor has direct force on. The governor pulls on that lever that it slides into, and then that lever has two tough springs at the bottom of it which get compressed when you push more pedal. So there is actually quite the force that will be on whatever you use as your shim.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 30, 2012, 11:06:47 pm
There is two larger springs in the head of the pump that the governor has direct force on. The governor pulls on that lever that it slides into, and then that lever has two tough springs at the bottom of it which get compressed when you push more pedal. So there is actually quite the force that will be on whatever you use as your shim.

I don't know the internals of the pump very well as far as what pushes on what. I am just a nooby student of VE pumps.

Here's a link to Delrin specs

http://www.plasticsintl.com/datasheets/Delrin_150.pdf

compressive strength is 5200 psi

Do you think the force on the shim is greater than that?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on May 01, 2012, 01:32:00 pm
There is two larger springs in the head of the pump that the governor has direct force on. The governor pulls on that lever that it slides into, and then that lever has two tough springs at the bottom of it which get compressed when you push more pedal. So there is actually quite the force that will be on whatever you use as your shim.

I don't know the internals of the pump very well as far as what pushes on what. I am just a nooby student of VE pumps.

Here's a link to Delrin specs

http://www.plasticsintl.com/datasheets/Delrin_150.pdf

compressive strength is 5200 psi

Do you think the force on the shim is greater than that?

i would still use metal to shim the governor..

plastic inside an injection pump kinda scares me.. look at the old DB2 flex ring governors.. plastic.. that was the reason 99% of the 5.7D & 6.2D engines died and were never fixed..
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: theman53 on May 01, 2012, 05:09:18 pm
A copper or brass washer wouldn't even make a roller skip if pieces of it were thrown in its way.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on May 01, 2012, 10:12:23 pm

i would still use metal to shim the governor..

plastic inside an injection pump kinda scares me.. look at the old DB2 flex ring governors.. plastic.. that was the reason 99% of the 5.7D & 6.2D engines died and were never fixed..

What part in the DB2 is plastic and what kind of force is on it? How did it fail?

I'll take a look at my practice pump and see if I can determine how much force is on the shim and decide if I should use it or go to metal.

I made one already for practice to get the dimensions right.

(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120501_175354-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 01, 2012, 10:13:54 pm
Right on that looks alright.

Run it. The most force is at or near WOT. Which as you now know, isnt needed with the GOVMOD/
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on May 02, 2012, 12:23:26 pm
A copper or brass washer wouldn't even make a roller skip if pieces of it were thrown in its way.

if a copper or brass washer degraded, the metal bits coming off the washer, would be SOO TINY, and SOFT that it would not harm the internals of the pump.. but it would be caught by the screen in the OUT bolt..

ive shimmed 2 pumps in the last year, used stainless nuts in one for a shim, and brass nuts in the last one, just for the fact that brass is softer than steel, but not so soft that its like lead or copper..
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on May 02, 2012, 01:34:35 pm
A copper or brass washer wouldn't even make a roller skip if pieces of it were thrown in its way.

if a copper or brass washer degraded, the metal bits coming off the washer, would be SOO TINY, and SOFT that it would not harm the internals of the pump.. but it would be caught by the screen in the OUT bolt..

ive shimmed 2 pumps in the last year, used stainless nuts in one for a shim, and brass nuts in the last one, just for the fact that brass is softer than steel, but not so soft that its like lead or copper..

The shim is always under compression and does not rotate as far as I can tell, so I do not see how the Delrin can wear. Delrin has self lubricating properties and being submerged in fuel, another lubricant,  I don't think there should be any Delrin chips coming off.

The only thing I am concerned with is how soft the Delrin will get at coolant temp.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: bbob203 on August 16, 2012, 06:59:53 pm
So I have a governer modded pump installed on the engine im about to put in my car. Its and ecodiesel motor all stock but with said gov modded td pump. I dont plan on driving fast 99% of the time. I dont have an egt gauge, tach or boost gauge. Should I worry about killing my engine? Boost isn't turned up at all either.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 16, 2012, 07:07:14 pm
So I have a governer modded pump installed on the engine im about to put in my car. Its and ecodiesel motor all stock but with said gov modded td pump. I dont plan on driving fast 99% of the time. I dont have an egt gauge, tach or boost gauge. Should I worry about killing my engine? Boost isn't turned up at all either.

No. ;). If your not rolling ungodly amounts of coals and the engine is setup properly (ie. not extremely retarded pump timing) then it will be fine. I wouldn't run around WOT even stock though, they get mighty hot! lol
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on October 08, 2012, 11:16:59 am
Is the governor from an 81 NA 1.6 the same as the governor from the 92 Ecodiesel? I want to swap the NA governor in lieu of the modded governor in my Eco to test egt, smoke, performance differences.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: bbob203 on October 08, 2012, 02:06:17 pm
Is the governor from an 81 NA 1.6 the same as the governor from the 92 Ecodiesel? I want to swap the NA governor in lieu of the modded governor in my Eco to test egt, smoke, performance differences.

Did you gov mod your eco pump? How well does it work?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on October 08, 2012, 04:02:34 pm
Is the governor from an 81 NA 1.6 the same as the governor from the 92 Ecodiesel? I want to swap the NA governor in lieu of the modded governor in my Eco to test egt, smoke, performance differences.

To the eye, the springs look very similar.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on October 21, 2012, 11:31:49 am
Is the governor from an 81 NA 1.6 the same as the governor from the 92 Ecodiesel? I want to swap the NA governor in lieu of the modded governor in my Eco to test egt, smoke, performance differences.

Did you gov mod your eco pump? How well does it work?

Yes I did, it puts out a lot of smoke and EGT can get a little past 1200 F if I floor it. I am thinking of un-doing the gov mod and see how much power I lose because I don't like all that smoke since it is unburned fuel. That's why I want to know if the NA pump has the same governor since I have a few spare NA pumps to play with so I can leave the modded governor if I decide to put it back in.

One thing that I notice is that coming off idle at a standstill engaging the clutch, there is not much torque and I have to keep the revs up otherwise it may stall. My 1.6 NA caddy does not do this. Not sure if the Eco did that before the gov mod so part of the reason of un-doing the gov mod is to see if it is related.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on October 21, 2012, 12:07:51 pm
That is a relation on how you have your external settings set up. I once had my 1.6 NA setup with a fully shimmed governor and I could get in to fifth gear without ever touching the accelerator.

Literally, could idle through every gear and not stall it out. So no the gov mod is not causing this.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on December 31, 2012, 03:10:08 pm
Is the governor from an 81 NA 1.6 the same as the governor from the 92 Ecodiesel? I want to swap the NA governor in lieu of the modded governor in my Eco to test egt, smoke, performance differences.

Did you gov mod your eco pump? How well does it work?

Sorry, didn't see your post till now. Yes the Eco pump was gov modded and it it works the way it suppose to, I suppose. More pedal, more fuel, more smoke, more power. I had it on a dyno a few months ago and I don't remember the exact numbers but I do remember beating out a 2001 TDI in 1/4 mile simulated time.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 21, 2013, 10:12:52 pm
Well folks I starting this project this evening after checking my timing. The little circlip kicked my can for an hour, then I ended up bent the gov shaft! I have a parts pump so that's fine, and I can grab some tiny washers tomorrow. Is there a chance my advance cable doesn't have a spring? I'm doing this in the car BTW, I popped the top off couldn't find it anywhere. I guess I'll drain the pump tomorrow see if I can find the little fella.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 21, 2013, 10:32:10 pm
Is this on your 81? No the advance cable does not have a throttle bump. Just an internal advance mechanism.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on January 21, 2013, 11:55:54 pm
Well folks I starting this project this evening after checking my timing. The little circlip kicked my can for an hour, then I ended up bent the gov shaft! I have a parts pump so that's fine, and I can grab some tiny washers tomorrow. Is there a chance my advance cable doesn't have a spring? I'm doing this in the car BTW, I popped the top off couldn't find it anywhere. I guess I'll drain the pump tomorrow see if I can find the little fella.

What kind of problems did you have with the cir-clip? On the previous page I show a tool I made for working on the governor. 3 sheet rock screws, a large flat washer and you can use a piece of wood for the base. Much safer than having parts flying all over the place. ;D
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 22, 2013, 02:10:29 pm
8v, yes its on my 81, and that's good to know I was worried!.. Thanks 92Eco I'll check that out.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 22, 2013, 09:50:57 pm
The neat shimming jig was about the only part that went well tonight. I though I knew how the springs went back on, I was wrong. I found a pic of a pump that seams to have the the same spring system as mine. Anyone have a detailed pic of an '83 NA pump top they'd like to share. For the difficulties I'm having with this I better be able to do 2nd gear burnouts in this hog  :P
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 22, 2013, 09:52:52 pm
Anyone have a detailed pic of an '83 NA pump top they'd like to share.

Any picture you have seen here in this thread will work, especially the ones in my initial post.

For the difficulties I'm having with this I better be able to do 2nd gear burnouts in this hog

1.6 NA? Yeah right. lmao.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 22, 2013, 09:55:33 pm
The pics were great for everything except the accelerator return springs. Both my NA pumps use different springs than my TD pump.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 22, 2013, 09:56:31 pm
;) ahh that was a loss in text. The throttle springs, my bad. Yes I do not have pictures of an early pump.. Lemme have a look see in my picture stash.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: TylerDurden on January 23, 2013, 10:36:10 am

Would these shots do?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0gPMS-MT5CQ/UQABDQlRiKI/AAAAAAAAA6g/9tMBEehriPo/s800/IMG_9222.JPG)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YwCpH0mFlvo/UQACxq_v-ZI/AAAAAAAAA64/3ohJ3k2gS8Q/s800/IMG_9223.JPG)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 23, 2013, 07:23:51 pm
Yeah that outta work, thanks Tyler!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 26, 2013, 10:42:27 pm
I hope this isn't a serious derail but 3 days of cranking and my ole gal hasn't fired up yet. The only thing I didn't do correctly was I reused the seal for the head and the oring for the accelerator lever rather than replacing them. I cleaned the surfaces and seals and lubed with diesel fuel before assembly it must be drawing air from somewhere??? I have fuel at the injectors when I crack them but it just wont fire. I've started a somewhat dry pump multiple times granted it wasn't 15*F outside for a week but she's been plugged in around the clock. When I decided to do the gov mod I discovered that my alternator bracket was held on my two loose bolts, leaking water rapidly, great discovery I know! I checked timing of my pump before the gov mod it was .95mm and then I rechecked timing after addressing my other issues and it was .965mm. My fuel isn't gelled from what I can see. I've checked motor timing a hundred times, what is going on!? I did the big no-no, she ran for 2 seconds from a glowplug-less shot of ether. I'm using a New Holland 8260 for a jump vehicle so I'm getting plenty of amperage. Should I twist in my main fuel screw more? I'm stumped fella's.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 26, 2013, 10:47:55 pm
Usually it is the fuel screw that needs twisting in at this stage.

Go half turn at a time until you get it to run, be prepared. It could take off on the RPM's.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 26, 2013, 11:26:52 pm
Thanks Jeremy, I'll give it a whirl in the am!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 27, 2013, 02:24:42 pm
I have the screw 1.5 turns in, great crankng speed, smoke out the tailpipe. The motor is shaking rapidly, something can't be right.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 27, 2013, 03:46:51 pm
Did you properly reference the throttle arm when you took it off??? If you've got smoke, its getting fuel in to the cylinders.. either the GP's are toast now from the repeated glowing, or its not enough fuel. Hold the pedal down while cranking, if it catches and you can hold it running with the pedal, you are off on the throttle arm to shaft orientation.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 27, 2013, 08:33:54 pm
The GP's are doing to job I think. I've been WOT while cranking. So my arm to the shaft relation must be wrong.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 29, 2013, 09:28:14 pm
I got the car running tonight! It seems like short blips of the throttle it returns to to idle but longer bursts the RPM's don't drop like they should between shifts? I guess I could be a spline off still? Otherwise it feels a wee bit spunkier.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on January 29, 2013, 09:50:06 pm
If it still drops, I'd say your plenty close. Back out the fuel screw and up the idle screw to compensate. The springs don't quite have enough pull on the internal lever to pull it back to idle when you let off the pedal.. You are close :)

Gratifying isn't it? ;)

Good Job.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: alex17young on January 29, 2013, 10:00:10 pm
Its a good feeling! The first time she fired up it was idling at WOT, then my next adjustment was a little too much lol. I think somewhere in the excitement i backed the fuel screw out a full turn and my idle looks threaded in quite a bit more than it used to be. Thats what makes me believe I'm still off a notch but idk, deff dont want rpm's hanging too long. And my thumbs are sore :-[
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on March 01, 2013, 12:43:30 pm
i think its time for an update..

"Gov Mod 2013 Edition"
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: hillfolk'r on March 16, 2013, 09:22:56 pm
I'm tempted to do the governor mod soon. I dont wanna blow it up inwas reading i should rig up some water injection?
Oh its a mk2 with a na 1.9/1.6 head.
It already seems choked over 4500 im sure its not a good breather anyways but i figure it should help.
Should i throw an egt in?


Oh btw i did adjust the max fuel, like this : turned the idle screw all the way down and got as much slack in the pedal as i could. Then after pulling the lock collar off i started it and "adjusted" the idle with the fuel. I dunno it went a few turns i figure thats good for now :) enjoy the soot!
http://youtu.be/oO3tYekrq5c

Title: Re: Re: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: shwak23 on April 26, 2013, 11:43:00 pm
That is a relation on how you have your external settings set up. I once had my 1.6 NA setup with a fully shimmed governor and I could get in to fifth gear without ever touching the accelerator.

Literally, could idle through every gear and not stall it out. So no the gov mod is not causing this.

Lets discuss this more. I have this same problem. After GOV mod it seems like I lack torque when taking off in first gear. I doubt fuel needs to be turned up. It smokes black at full throttle. And always spews a little haze.

Sent from Outer Space!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on April 28, 2013, 05:49:05 pm
You likely have everything all put back together weird. It has been a while since I have done any and tuned them as well.. but I think I recall some that you could just put the shims in the governor and put it back to the settings it ran at prior to taking it apart..

HOWEVER, I have had some that needed a from the start tune. Probably because where there were set before was right on the brim of not being setup properly.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: shwak23 on April 30, 2013, 11:10:00 pm
So... No suggestions? As far as which particular adjustment would cause this?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: hillfolk'r on May 14, 2013, 11:43:04 pm
i think its time for an update..

"Gov Mod 2013 Edition"

Would it be better maybe to do a how to thread, then a discussion thread on the how to thread. That way people get the good info right away with no bs. Not that i dont mind the bs, and the how to is right at the beginning, just an idea..... Oh and updated techniques only could be added to the how to thread ? Am i makin sense?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: DieselBalz on May 15, 2013, 04:38:17 pm
Do I smell a 2013 Edition on the horizon? With updated pics and video maybe too?  ;D
Title: Re: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: wolf_walker on May 15, 2013, 10:15:40 pm
It deff needs clearing up, like a locked how-to thread, then a discussion thread separate.



Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on May 15, 2013, 10:27:42 pm
I am in the midst, well I have the plan to re-write it with my own pictures taken and what not..

I am also going to be re-doing the M-TDI thread, as it is severely dated with A LOT of misleading info.

Tooo busy with life :( lol.

Ps. If anyone wants to take the time out of their day to fix it as they see fit and then send it to me to be published... I wouldn't stop you haha.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: orbitald on September 21, 2013, 03:36:20 pm
Question, if your already pushing the EGT limits is there any reason to do this mod?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on September 21, 2013, 03:57:50 pm
You are reaching EGT limits with a bone stock pump? I don't see how that is possible?

EDIT..

Is that in the Vanagon you have posted? Different story.. Yes I would still do it, you can use less fuel to rev higher and make the engine much more happy about it.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: orbitald on September 21, 2013, 04:07:55 pm
Yes, its the Vanagon and I already have to back off on tall, long hills as the temps start climbing 1250-1300.

How does it use less fuel to rev higher? Even if I turn down the max fuel screw I thought the mod allows more fuel at the higher revs and wont more fuel make it hotter?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 8v-of-fury on September 21, 2013, 04:53:30 pm
You are lugging it and over fueling right now, guarantee it. More revs, with matching fuel will lower EGT's
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: orbitald on September 21, 2013, 04:59:55 pm
What if I adjust the max RPM limit screw to allow for higher RPMs? Would that solve the lugging aspect?

If I increase the upper RPM range how will the gov. mod help with over fueling?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on December 07, 2014, 05:32:24 pm
Question: Has anyone documented the fuel mileage loss/gain after the governor mod?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on December 07, 2014, 09:18:00 pm
Like with most diesel performance mods, you will see a mileage whack if you use your newfound abilities, but there shouldn't be any difference under general driving.  If you start spinning your engine up to 4500 RPM regularly with the pedal to the floor then yep, you're going to use more fuel.  But if you just drive around exactly the same as you did before you'll get about the same mileage.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 94bruce on March 11, 2015, 05:05:29 pm
Hi i am new to diesel tuning.

Have 1.6td (JX) in my 1989 vw transporter.

Was looking into this gov mod but is it worth shimming the main spring, if i don't want it to rev more than 4500rpm.

and read you don't shim the intermediate spring. So will shimming the main spring stop it reducing fuel before it cuts off at 4500rpm.

thanks

Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on March 11, 2015, 06:42:27 pm
Correct, leave the intermediate spring alone.  It doesn't cut off fuel, just improves the behavior of the vehicle at normal driving RPMs.

There isn't any way to leave the 4500 RPM limit in place while reducing the cutoff as it approaches 4500.  You can only have one or the other - shimming the main spring will move the fuel cutoff to higher RPMs.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on March 14, 2015, 11:58:04 pm
Thanks.

I'm going to have to do this mod on my pickup. Just seems like a valuable performance modification...especially for climbing hills.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on May 23, 2015, 11:55:49 pm
OK, I did the governor mod last night when I had the engine out for another transmission.

I have the fast idle pump version. I shimmed the main spring a total of 3.48mm using 3 washers. I notice also that the main spring seat near the middle of the unit has a tapered collar in the middle. So, I used a washer that was large enough to fit around the taper to sit all the way down on the spring seat and shimmed from there.

Problem: When I started up the pickup, it idles at around 3000 rpms or so. Way to high of course. Could I have misplaced my throttle shaft position, that is, have it out 180 degrees? I understand that there are no major idle adjustments when you put it all back together to get rpms down or up as it remains close to the same and you are ready to drive like normal.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on May 24, 2015, 02:17:17 pm
180 degrees out is a big difference. One or two splines though can easily bump it up to 3k.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on May 24, 2015, 05:05:13 pm
I don't know if it can be out 180 degrees. That's the only thing I can think of that may be different from before I messed with it.

I made a mark on the plate so that I could get the throttle shaft back in the same position. It is in the same location because the top of the accelerator shaft has a slot on top and its aligned with my marks. Can they be out 180?  I would think the bottom of the shaft with the riveted arm would only go so far one way or the other inside the pump. Maybe I have something hanging-up inside?

I guess I will have to take it apart again and look. Dang!
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on May 24, 2015, 08:02:22 pm
So, I've established that the shaft can only go in one way so the 180 degree out idea is not valid.

I altered the fuel screw position to get it down to a reasonable (but higher than stock) idle. When you started it, it would have difficulty evening out to the idle.

This is weird. Seems like everyone has a strait forward governor mod. I believe I did everything right but this pump doesn't seem to respond well.

So, I'm going to take the shims out and see if the pump goes back to normal. Hummmmm.

-dave
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on May 24, 2015, 11:30:02 pm
Update: I took apart an identical fast idle pump to see what the stock spring assembly looked like in case my existing pump was different. They were both the same.

I took out the shims to see if it would return to stock performance and run without the shims properly. Answer is yes.

So, whats the deal? One can do the governor mod successfully on some 1.6NA pumps but not all of them?
Do I have to get a specific pump like a 107A?
Do you have to alter the fuel screw, idle screw or anything else after the governor mod is performed?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on May 25, 2015, 09:39:47 am
The fuel screw definitely needs to be adjusted any time you take the lid off of the pump. Idle speed too.

Can you post a picture of your shim job?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on May 25, 2015, 01:13:55 pm
Looks like the attachment link doesn't work for posting pics in Safari or Firefox on a Mac.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on May 25, 2015, 03:45:31 pm
most of us use photobucket or some other image hosting service.
If you try to use the lid and arm from an opposite rotation pump, it will be 180 out, and won't work.

It's pretty easy to get one spline off, just saying...
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on June 03, 2015, 10:43:35 am
OK, figured out how to upload pics using photo bucket.

Here's pictures before and after the shims:

http://s423.photobucket.com/user/I-XSLR8/media/Shimmed3.48mm.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
http://s423.photobucket.com/user/I-XSLR8/media/4c2127fa-ebd7-4173-967b-005c9d50b6ca.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on June 03, 2015, 10:23:15 pm
Shim looks correct... Probably a bit more aggressive than mine but looks fine.

You absolutely do have to adjust the various pump settings after having it apart. I don't think your issues are caused by your changes unless something is binding. Can you still pull on the end of the governor capsule and have it move freely, in particular the intermediate spring?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on June 03, 2015, 11:17:38 pm
I'm wondering if my fuel screw moved somehow inside the stainless crimp collar that keeps it from moving. After I took the shims out (back to stock) and reassembled the pump, I noticed it had higher RPM idle than before when I messed with the shims. I noticed later that it was moveable in the crimp. Odd since they are lightly spot welded to keep the screw from turning. This is a rebuilt pump with paint on the fuel screw so it wasn't messed with by me...or at least not knowingly.

Perhaps it is a combination of too much shim (I measured with my caliper at 3.48mm's) and the fuel screw turned in too much somehow.
When the shims were in place, when I backed off the fuel screw to lower the rpms, the idle personality was weird. It wouldn't stabilize after a small rev or from a shut-off the engine to start engine scenario.

Maybe I should try 3mm minimum shimming?

My understanding is that you can shim it from 3mm to 5mm and its supposed to be fine.

So, if it idled weird with 3.48mm shims would the idle be different with a smaller shim size?

-dave
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on June 03, 2015, 11:20:29 pm
The pump cover has some play around its mounting bolts. Since the governor lever is attached to the bottom of the pump and the screw is attached to the top you always have to reset it after taking the cover off. It's also a hell of a lot easier to get the cover on with the fuel screw backed out.

Same thing is true of the idle adjustment. Very small changes in the cover position can have substantial impact on the pump settings.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vwzzuk on June 03, 2015, 11:33:28 pm
Would a Fast Idle pump(like mine) be different than the standard cold start pump with regard to shimming?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on June 04, 2015, 02:07:10 pm
Nope.  I've shimmed both setups, everything is the same.  The main spring only comes in to play at high RPM, it can't cause a high idle on its own.
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on March 18, 2016, 12:57:49 pm
I'm a bit late but it looks to me the idle spring (right side of pic) is missing. Anyone else notice that?


Compare to the 2 governors in my pic
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120401_132321_zpsf3292098.jpg) (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Ecodiesel92/media/IMG_20120401_132321_zpsf3292098.jpg.html)

(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp311/I-XSLR8/Shimmed3.48mm.jpg) (http://s423.photobucket.com/user/I-XSLR8/media/Shimmed3.48mm.jpg.html)


OK, figured out how to upload pics using photo bucket.

Here's pictures before and after the shims:

http://s423.photobucket.com/user/I-XSLR8/media/Shimmed3.48mm.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1 (http://s423.photobucket.com/user/I-XSLR8/media/Shimmed3.48mm.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1)
http://s423.photobucket.com/user/I-XSLR8/media/4c2127fa-ebd7-4173-967b-005c9d50b6ca.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0 (http://s423.photobucket.com/user/I-XSLR8/media/4c2127fa-ebd7-4173-967b-005c9d50b6ca.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0)
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on March 18, 2016, 05:29:12 pm
Pumps with dual idle speed (ones with the external arm with two idle speed adjust screws) use a completely separate free spring from the idle lever to the governor lever.

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on March 18, 2016, 10:03:51 pm
Pumps with dual idle speed (ones with the external arm with two idle speed adjust screws) use a completely separate free spring from the idle lever to the governor lever.

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk



Can you post a pic of such a pump? What year and model has this? My Ecodiesel has a cold start lever for high idle/advance. Is that considered dual idle speed adjust?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: vanbcguy on March 18, 2016, 10:32:39 pm
I think any pump after about 1985 or so has the 2 speed idle. Yea, if your idle speed increases when you pull the cold start lever you have the 2 speed system.

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on March 18, 2016, 10:45:32 pm
I think any pump after about 1985 or so has the 2 speed idle. Yea, if your idle speed increases when you pull the cold start lever you have the 2 speed system.

Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk


So my 92 Eco has the 2 speed system. I just updated post #214 with a pic of my governor. Can you see the idle spring he is missing compared to mine?
Title: Re: 2010 Edition of the Governor Mod
Post by: caddycraig on August 27, 2017, 03:49:09 pm
Hi, im looking at doing the governor spring mod and this seems to be the best thread to tell me how, annoyingly none of the photos show up  :'( it just says 'please update your account to enable third party hosting'. looking into it it seems photobucket have changed there services and this has happened to alot of websites, is there any other way of seeing the photos or another thread to show me how to carry out the governor mod?

Thanks

Craig