VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: UncleDelicious on June 04, 2017, 07:36:26 pm

Title: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on June 04, 2017, 07:36:26 pm
I have been working on this Caddy that I bought and I can get it running, but only when the injection pump is pulling fuel from a fuel can directly off the injection pump line.  Once I connect the hose back to the fuel filter, it will just use up the fuel in the pump/line and not pull it from the tank in the truck.
I've tried this twice and it has run until dying with no sign of fuel in the lines around the filter. Does it require more time to draw fuel all the way from the tank up to the injection pump? Or is it possible the lines are just blocked/allowing air in?
I have read elsewhere about pressurizing the fuel return line in order to get fuel up to the filter, but to take care not to over-pressurize the fuel tank. If this is a reasonable strategy to get fuel flowing, what would one use in order to get enough pressure to push through fuel without damaging anything?

I checked around the FAQs and other threads but I didn't see the topic, so I apologize if this has been covered here on a regular basis.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: drzrma on June 04, 2017, 08:35:10 pm
Does your fuel filter have a vent? Are you seeing air in the line between the filter and IP when trying to pull from the tank?

Any chance you have a vacuum pump, Mighty Vac or similar like you would use for bleeding brakes? That's what I am using during my continuing adventures, and it's worked quite well for pulling fuel from the tank to the filter and for very gently pulling bubbles through the IP. Not sure how well trying to pressurize the tank would work, but no experience trying it either.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on June 05, 2017, 12:21:08 am
Uncle D, Sounds like your problem is either a blocked filter, a blocked line coming to the filter or an air leak in one or the other. 
So do you have fuel in the filter?  How old is that bugger?  If this rig is new to you I wouldn't trust it unless I replaced it myself. 

If you take the banjo fitting off the filter you and remove the fitting easier by cutting it off than pulling on it.  Although I have had luck using a heat gun on those old stiff lines to get it to come off.  Once you have the fitting off you and use some compressed air and blow it down the line and back flush the line to the tank.  Just remember to open up the cap on the tank at the rear of the car.  You don't want to pressurize the tank then remove the air line and have it all come spraying in your face.  That would let you know that you have an open line but I don't think you want that kind of proof.

Put it all back together and look over those copper washers on the fittings real good.  I would use some 600 grit paper and oil and rub them on it and then take a torch to them to anneal them.  Turn them blue then let them cool.  It doesn't take much heat to do that. 

Fill any filter with fuel most of the way full before you attach it to the adapter.  If you have a vacuum source as talked about by drzrma then use it.  The IP only has so much ability to pull fuel to itself.  Once the resistance, like a plugged filter gets to great it just does what you are describing. 

And I hate to even mention this but it could be the IP itself.  It is worn out or scratched inside and just can't pull fuel.  But I wouldn't go there until I knew the filter and line were clean and had low resistance.

Good luck.   ;D
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: vanbcguy on June 05, 2017, 12:27:55 am
It's not terribly unusual for the lift pump section of the injection pump to get sticky if it has been sitting for a while. There's some small metal vanes that pull fuel from the tank, if they stick in their slots they won't create any suction.

Essentially there's two possibilities:

1. You have a plugged line or an air leak
2. Your injection pump isn't actually pulling fuel but otherwise is operating

If it were me I'd get a can of diesel purge, run the engine on it till it's about 3/4 gone then let it sit in the pump for a day or so. Finish it off the next day and go from there. In the meantime try pulling fuel from the filter with a Mityvac or an electric lift pump; the diesel purge is totally a good thing to be doing no matter what. Sort out any fuel system issues in the meantime.



Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on June 05, 2017, 12:37:14 am
I didn't think about stuck vanes.  That could be the very issue here.  So do the suggested cleaning and purging and I hope that solves the problem.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on June 05, 2017, 09:04:24 pm
I really appreciate all of the suggestions from everybody. I just ordered a MityVac and I'll swing by AutoZone to get some diesel purge after work some day this week.
I'll let you know how I make out once I get the MityVac up and running
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: fatmobile on June 13, 2017, 01:26:31 am
Put a clear hose on the output of the filter and suck through it.
 You should be able to suck fuel from the tank easily.
 It it's pulling hard there is a restriction.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on June 17, 2017, 06:51:02 am
The MityVac is able to pull fuel up through the filter relatively easily

I was unable to get it to fire back up though due to possibly the starter. I'm going to put the new starter in today and see where that gets me
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on June 17, 2017, 12:02:07 pm
It was starting and running so well from that external fuel supply a couple weeks ago.
I can't even get it to turn over anymore. The starter clicks and that's about all I get, even when jump starting it while trying to start it. I also went around and cleaned up some of the grounds but nothing.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: kljaja on June 19, 2017, 05:32:04 pm
I had a "click" noise from starter relay and nothing after with bad battery...
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: fatmobile on June 20, 2017, 05:17:57 pm
Turn the key to click, then hold it there for awhile.
 Then go feel battery cable ends and starter posts to see what's getting warm,.. that's where your problem is,... if you have a good battery.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on June 28, 2017, 09:11:02 pm
I'm dumb, the battery was dead, so I guess my jumper cables need to be replaced.
I charged the battery and it starts just fine and runs off the fuel after the filter. It still isn't pulling fuel from before the filter though.
The MityVac pulls fuel through the whole system pretty easily though
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on June 29, 2017, 12:19:51 am
Maybe time to rebuild the IP if it won't pull through a filter.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on July 23, 2017, 04:26:32 pm
I've been trying to solve this fuel issue but I can't even check if it's working yet because I've been having electrical problems.

I let the glow plugs warm until the light goes out and then when I turn the key to start I lose all electrics. No headlights, directionals, dash lights, etc.
If I clean off the battery terminals then everything works again until I try to crank it over, rinse and repeat.

Does anybody have a clue what could be the source of this?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on July 23, 2017, 10:54:30 pm
This is the condition better known as electrical Gremlins.  I hate this one but I think the constant cleaning required might be due to heavy load being placed on a contact point that isn't as solid as it should be.  Thus an arc jumps the gap and ruins the little connection that is there.  Might be time for a new battery terminal clamp or a good dose of dielectric grease on it upon assembly.

How about the connection to the ignition key.  The big plug on the right, pull it out and reset it.  I did some dash work a while back and just moving the steering column and dash around made mine a little temperamental. 

Starter connections good on the red cable?  That is the big draw that comes after the glow plugs when starting.  If you haven't put a relay on that then all the load is going through the key. 

That is all I can come up with for now.  Check and see.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on July 25, 2017, 07:56:06 pm
I changed out the battery terminals and that seems to have solved it. I think you were right about the poor contact point there.

But now I'm still having the same fueling issue as before. It will start and run but then sputter and die after a few seconds. If I pull fuel to the IP with the MityVac, it will run for longer but eventually die.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on July 25, 2017, 08:47:20 pm
This car sat for awhile didn't it?  The pump seals might be worn or dried and cracked and letting air into the pump.  If you have clear diesel going out of the OUT bolt and by that I mean no air bubbles mixed in with it then my only logical guess is that the pump itself is worn and not able to draw fuel to the inlet. 

I think you changed the fuel filter. but if it fades after awhile on a bottle or jar after time then it has to be the IP itself as that is the only thing in the loop.   


Back to the drawing board eh?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on July 26, 2017, 10:12:26 am
Man, I've been hoping it isn't the IP. I was told the engine was rebuilt before I bought it and it looks pretty clean. It did sit for a while though so it would make sense for seals to be worn
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on July 29, 2017, 05:57:44 pm
I tried that thing I was told about where you pressurize the return fuel line at the IP. The truck now runs fine without dying. I'm not sure what the issue was, but putting a little compressed air through the system seems to have solved my problem.
Thanks for all of your help everybody, it's greatly appreciated
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on July 30, 2017, 02:31:52 pm
Odd to have a restriction on the return side of the pump but as you say,  No problems now.  Normally is a a plug that starves the pump of fuel not one that builds up pressure within it.  Good to know.  Many happy miles now.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on July 30, 2017, 05:51:58 pm
I'm not sure if the blockage was in the return side or the feed side, because I just pressurized the return until fuel came out through the filter. Either way, it works now and I was finally able to take it out for a drive today
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on July 30, 2017, 11:52:01 pm
That makes some sense but you might now have a big nasty goober in the fuel filter.  You might want to check into that.  It might become a problem later.  Surprised that the vent on the tank didn't just let the air out that way.  You might need to blow that out as well. 

I know, You just want to drive it and not have to keep fixing and checking things.  But that is what you get when you own one of these darlings. 
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on August 01, 2017, 06:37:39 pm
Rome wasn't built in a day. I just feel accomplished that it runs and drives for now
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: fatmobile on August 04, 2017, 03:16:46 pm
Pressurising the fuel tank enough to blow a chunk of gunk from the supply line could have ended badly.
 10 psi on a tank that has so many square inches could and expanded it easily.
10 psi on 10 square inches is 100 pounds.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on August 27, 2017, 12:10:05 pm
This bad boy was slower than hell, like it wouldn't go much over 45 on a flat road. It seemed like a fuel delivery issue so I tried researching some of that fuel stuff.

I had 5/16" fuel lines from the tank to the filter and then 5/16" for the return from the IP back to the tank. There was a 1/4" from the filter to the IP.
I changed the 1/4" to a 5/16" on the short section from the filter to the IP and it got even slower. So I looked around online and saw the fuel lines are supposed to be 1/4" and I changed all the fuel lines to 1/4".

With the 1/4" lines it idles super rough and dies when I give it any throttle.  But then poking around this forum I found an older post where somebody mentioned 5/16" from the tank to the IP and then 1/4" from the IP returning to the tank.

Could anybody enlighten me to which size fuel lines go where? There doesn't seem to be a general consensus, but I'm currently thinking the 5/16" feed and 1/4" return sounds like my next step
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: fatmobile on August 29, 2017, 03:38:25 pm
5/16" metal from the tank to the engine bay, 5/16" rubber hose from there to filter, 1/4" from filter to pump, 1/4" from the pump (for MK1), to 5/16" metal back towards the tank.
 Got clear fuel lines?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on August 29, 2017, 05:50:48 pm
I have no clear lines at the moment. Although I've heard they are a great way to troubleshoot around the IP
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on August 29, 2017, 10:45:05 pm
You should pick up a section of 1/4 inch and do the from the filter and back to the tank hard line.  If you ever find air on the side of the filter you have troubles.  If you don't have air going into the IP but see air coming out that means some seal is bad on the pump and that helps you determine what parts to fix.

Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on September 26, 2017, 09:48:59 pm
It would appear that one of my injectors wasn't sealing and it was bubbling a bit. I pulled it out but the heat shield doesn't seem to want to come out very well.
I'm afraid to cause any debris to fall down past the heat shield
What does everybody else do when you guys have a stubborn heat shield?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on September 27, 2017, 12:02:06 am
I have a pair of thin nosed pliers that have an expanding handle, spring pushes them open if you are not squeezing on them.  I insert them into the hole of the heat shield. Let them open up and simply pull up to remove the shield. 

If yours is stuck in there from carbon or misalignment then you are going to need to get a little more force and perhaps some penetrating fluid on it first.  A stout wire that fits the hole with a slight 90 degree bend for about 5 mm might get in and provide enough grab that you can pop it out.  You have to get it out to put in a new one anyway.  Car won't run the way it is. 

That may have been the problem in the first place.  Not reforming the shield or not using a new one.  You have to have that little gap between the edge of the shield and the body of the injector when you go to install them.  Otherwise they are not going to do their job.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on September 27, 2017, 10:21:21 pm
Yeah, I'm wondering if that one was stuck and then just left in the last time somebody removed that injector.
I tried a some PB Blaster and a bent coat hanger the other day but it kept popping out
I'll fiddle with my design or maybe try to find some pliers that fit. Maybe some small ring opening pliers would do the trick
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on September 27, 2017, 10:38:04 pm
You might try tapping lightly on it with a flat faced punch around the edges.  That might break the carbon bind on it.  Then when you get it out be sure to clean the seat of the heat shield real good with a flat scraper.  Hopefully a minimal amount of crap falls in the cylinder.  You could work with a vacuum cleaner sucking it out like the dentist does. 
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on September 28, 2017, 05:27:54 pm
I got the old one out and I'm picking up a few new heat shields at German Auto Parts tomorrow. All it took was a few tries with the PB, my coat hanger, and a few choice words.
I'll probably have the shop vac running near the opening and scrape some of the build up out of there
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: vanbcguy on September 29, 2017, 01:18:53 am
Fwiw the easiest way to get a stuck heat shield out is to screw a large wood screw in to it, then yank on that.

I've had good luck with a bicycle spoke for ones that aren't too stuc.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on October 07, 2017, 03:11:22 pm
It will get one good rev up and then when I let the throttle out it will shake pretty rough at idle and not rev back up very high before letting it idle for a minute.
So to recap: Revs up well --> throttle let out = rough idle, hard shaking --> will not rev up very high --> idles for a bit --> repeat from beginning

It looks like fuel is slowly creeping from the return line back into the IP. The clear return line will be empty in the engine bay and then fill up from the tank side
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on October 07, 2017, 10:41:52 pm
When was the last time you changed the fuel filter.  Sounds like a vacuum being built up on the inlet side.  Run from a bottle to eliminate fuel filter and report back to us.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on October 08, 2017, 08:37:38 am
The fuel filter is new.
A few months ago I tried it off of a bottle of diesel and it pulled from there and ran. I'll get out there and try the bottle thing again and report my findings
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on October 10, 2017, 06:48:15 pm
It was running off of a bottle but there was a lot of air in the line so it wasn't super strong.

I blew the air out of the lines and it ran pretty well after that except it still dies out after giving it the berries.
It will be fine through first and then after shifting up it feels like there's no fuel for a few seconds before it catches back up
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on October 10, 2017, 08:26:26 pm
Sounds like a front seal might be leaking somehow.  As you demand fuel it put a vacuum on the pump and lines to the fuel filter.  If the lines and filter are not there, as in the bottle system there should not be air in any of the lines.  Maybe an inlet banjo not totally smooth or a copper washer has a burr on it and it is letting air in that way? 

Grasping at where the air is coming from.  Do you have fresh ends on the lines going to the banjo and fuel filter.  They get hard and brittle and they might look and feel like they are on well but they have a crack that will get vibration on upshift and possibly let air in that way.

Maybe you have new fuel lines all the way,  I think I remember that now.  So banjos, washers, inlet bolt are the only areas I would be looking other than the seals on the front hub. 

What a PITA!
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on October 10, 2017, 09:44:37 pm
PITA is right.
I guess I gotta start poking around the banjos and maybe replace some copper washers

Thanks for the suggestions
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on October 10, 2017, 10:30:38 pm
I am running out of ideas, get it fixed soon.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on October 20, 2017, 07:09:05 pm
This may be a dumb question, but are leaks on the return side as likely to cause issue as leaks on the feed side?
The return line going into the fuel tank has a little baby leak that I can't seem to get to stop no matter how much I tighten down the hose clamp
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: vanbcguy on October 20, 2017, 07:57:27 pm
This may be a dumb question, but are leaks on the return side as likely to cause issue as leaks on the feed side?
The return line going into the fuel tank has a little baby leak that I can't seem to get to stop no matter how much I tighten down the hose clamp
Yes, very much so. Return side leaks let fuel flow back to the tank from the supply side filling the pump with air.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on October 20, 2017, 11:04:46 pm
I believe you have just determined where the air is coming from.  Return line will leak air into the pump as vanbcguy says. 

Did you clip a 1/4 to 1/2 inch of the line off before you tightened the clamp?  That will refreshen the hose on the nib and you get a better seal.

The air into the pump issue really demands a short section of clear line on both sides of the pump for the very reason you are facing right now.

Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on October 21, 2017, 08:21:20 pm
I didn't clip any off because it obviously pisses diesel when disconnected. That seems like a promising change though.
I guess I'll just find the best way to do it as quick as possible and hope that solves my issues.
I do have clear lines on both sides of the IP now. It seemed to be slowly pulling in fuel on the return side, with the occasional bubbles coming through the feed side
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: fatmobile on October 24, 2017, 01:41:15 pm
What did you use for clear lines?
 I use 1/4" stuff and sometimes slide a short piece of 3/8" rubber hose over it before putting it on the barb. I slide this up over the barbed area and if it still leaks I put a hose clamp on the rubber piece.

 So occasional air bubble in the line going into the pump while running, right? That could just be some of the air that's stored in the filter. It doesn't go through a diesel soaked paper element very well but sometimes makes it through.

Still a little confused on where the air appears and when. Right after startup? Any air in the lines before startup?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on October 27, 2017, 09:23:31 pm
One of the straps on the fuel tank broke and now the tank has a steady little leak. I think I'll just drain the tank and pull it out to take a better look around that

As for the clear line, it's 5/8" clear fuel line from the auto parts store

The air appears in the lines after running for a hot minute
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on October 27, 2017, 10:53:03 pm
Wouldn't that be a 5/16" line there?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on October 28, 2017, 04:31:52 pm
Yup, 5/16" not 5/8".

Typographical error, I do not have enormous fuel lines in my engine bay
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on October 28, 2017, 08:34:05 pm
Kind of what I thought but you never know about these high HP/ Big Boost fellas.  They might enjoy that type of input of fuel.  The tank would have to be huge to support it but then, you just never know ...
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: fatmobile on October 31, 2017, 04:38:34 pm
Hmmm, 1/4 ID line always works great for me,.. except the MK2s have a smaller barb on the output banjo.

What does a hot minute mean? When you rev it bubbles appear,.. then disappear while reving?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on April 28, 2018, 04:57:56 pm
Winter seems to be over so I'm back trying to get this figured out.

I replaced the fuel tank since my old one was leaking and I'm trying to keep the air out of the system.

I primed the injection pump and did my best to bleed the air out.

The idle is rough and the throttle doesn't do a whole lot. It seems like the fuel isn't coming up through the feed, but it is definitely creeping up the return line from the tank.

I took a video of how it idles and how the throttle is affecting it. You should be able to hear how it sounds in the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5C_j6LY1dk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5C_j6LY1dk)

Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on April 28, 2018, 11:09:02 pm
UncleD,

Remind us all since it has been awhile, did you have the pump apart for a rebuild?  It almost looks to me like you are not getting the fuel collar to move on the shaft.  How about increasing the fuel screw on the top of the pump.  Just screw it in about a half a turn then try flipping the throttle, if no results turn in another half turn and try it.  Go up to two full turns in, 4 times and you should have tons of fuel being allowed to go in.

Maybe another video of the fourth time trying? 

You have to have pressure internally to get it running as it is so that leads me to think it is in the second, high pressure side, just not getting enough. 


Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on April 29, 2018, 06:57:58 am
I did not have the pump apart.

When I bought the truck I was told the engine was rebuilt, but I do not know for sure and I do not know if that included the pump.

The fuel screw is the horizontal one parallel with the throttle cable?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: Dakotakid on April 29, 2018, 11:08:41 am
Check orientation of "in-and-out" bolts/attachments on the fuel supply on pump.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on April 29, 2018, 01:42:15 pm
What is the proper orientation?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on April 29, 2018, 01:53:33 pm
Fuel screw is the one with the collar on it just above the four delivery valves on the back of the pump.  The pulley end is the front.

If you remove the out bolt you should see a screen like think in the hole when you flip it upside down.  The IN bolt has nothing like that, just a straight hole down and one across the provides passage of fuel from the banjo bolt to the inside of the pump.

Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on April 29, 2018, 02:52:12 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/VHKVe6a.jpg)

Is this the correct screw to adjust?

It was tightened all the way to the collar already. Should I try to remove the collar to tighten it down a turn or 2?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on April 30, 2018, 09:16:23 pm
I played with the fuel screw a little but ended up leaving it where it originally was.

I have figured out that it runs and revs fine while the feed line is still full, but as it continues to run, the fuel in the feed line gets used up and it isn't pulling enough to keep the line full. So it gets emptied out and filled with air while fuel trickles down out of the filter into the IP and it starts running rough and having no throttle response.

My next question here is: how do I get the feed lines to stay full of fuel and continue to remain full? Because it seems if I can keep the fuel flowing well through there it will be back to running and driving again
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on April 30, 2018, 11:00:51 pm
When was the last time you changed your fuel filter?  You might have gunk in the line from the tank to the filter as well.  Nothing a little bit of air blown down that line wouldn't help.  Just take off the fuel cap first so you don't pressurize the tank.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on May 01, 2018, 12:22:19 pm
The filter is less than a year old probably. It very well could be a case of some schmutz between the filter and the tank.
My other thought is that the line is just full of air and it isn’t able to run long enough before it runs out of fuel in order to replenish the whole line.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on May 01, 2018, 10:40:08 pm
If you put a vacuum on the line at the Out bolt you should be able to draw fuel all the way up from the tank through the filter and fill the pump.  You could also spin the pump with a drill with a 19 mm socket in it on a 3/8 inch drive extension.  That requires you to remove the belt and re time the whole thing.  Not something I would want to do unless I was forced into it.  Vacuum should do it.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: fatmobile on May 02, 2018, 03:18:35 pm
 When you shut the engine off does fuel rush out of the pump back towards the filter?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on May 02, 2018, 08:34:01 pm
Fuel doesn't rush out of the pump towards the filter.

I sprayed some air down the feed line and then slapped the MityVac on the out bolt to draw a vacuum. It held vacuum and pulled fuel through the pump. I primed it by cracking the injectors and cranking it, yada yada.

It idles fine now. But after a rev up it takes a little bit before the throttle will come back up. So it can idle and rev up no problem but after the first rev it will hardly rev above idle unless I wait for maybe 5-10 seconds.

I feel like I'm so close here
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on May 02, 2018, 11:48:26 pm
Have you started it and just raised the RPM's up to around 2K and let it hold for a bit.  Sometimes it takes a while to move all the air out of the inside of the IP.  And yes so close and no cigar, yet.
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on May 03, 2018, 12:21:33 pm
I have not held the idle up. There’s no tachometer so it’s hard for me to gauge RPMs as well.
There’s some air hanging in the high spot of the return line though. But it’s got fuel directly to the pump on the return
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: fatmobile on May 04, 2018, 12:09:26 am
 Accelerator arm on the wrong spline?
 Let's see that would mean it needs turned,..? spline stays still arm goes clockwise one spline.
 Sooo it has a clear fuel line on the front of the pump? It isn't filled with air when the engine is starving for fuel and won't rev.
 It runs well when you bottle feed it.
  You say fuel comes from the tank up the return line and into the pump?
 
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on May 04, 2018, 11:55:37 am
It runs the same off of a bottle or the system now. It idles and runs well, it’s just trying to get throttle response after a rev where it’s giving me problems.
When the return line doesn’t have fuel in it, fuel creeps up towards the pump from the tank
I’ll see if I can upload a video of it after work to help visualize my current issue
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on May 05, 2018, 05:38:16 pm
Maybe it just had to sit and think about it for a couple nights because it seems to work fine now. I even got it up to 55 earlier
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on September 03, 2018, 03:43:34 pm
It's been running well and getting fuel. I had to replace one of the drum cylinders on the rear since it was sticking and it feels like it has gained a little more pizzazz since.

I got some new wheels recently too

(https://i.imgur.com/s36GVLpl.jpg)

Anyway, back to what we're here for. I decided to just add to this instead of making a new thread.

I went to change the oil and the filter will just not come off. I think I only hand tightened it down last time but I can see the gasket is bunched up in there and it won't budge. I have tried everything I can think of but there just isn't a whole lot of space in there to get much working.

-My first resort was the cup style filter wrench that goes on the end of a rachet. That thing just ends up spinning eventually
-I got a band wrench and put some sandpaper inside of that but there isn't a lot of space to get any good torque on that
-I tried stabbing a screwdriver through but again, there isn't a whole lot of space to get any torque on it

What else can I try?

I have seen an idea to put 2 eyelet bolts through the bottom and spin a screwdriver on those
It looks like I'd gain some space if I could get the front engine mount undone
It also looks like I could get the filter housing off by removing 2 bolts. The top one is right there but the bottom one seems like it might be obstructed by the filter
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on September 03, 2018, 07:20:24 pm
UncleD.

Do not pull the filter flange!  In fact you can't unless you remove the filter first.  You need a new gasket if you pull the flange.

Try this.  Take a sharp, small chisel and place it on the edge of the filter up near the gasket. Hit that chisel with a sharp rap from a hammer to get a divot or a nice groove in the metal.  Then turn the chisel so you are driving off the filter with a hit in that direction.

You will be swinging towards the passenger side.  It has to be in that direction and the trick is to keep the chisel in the groove while hitting the chisel.  I use a 1/4 inch one ground to a pretty sharp edge to do this work. 

I had to do this very thing to get the fuel filter off the Caddy when I first purchased it.  It was the original on the car and it had 136 K on it already.  The PO just tagged a second one on after that first one.  I guess it was still working but barely.  Very gunky when I finally spun it off. 
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: libbydiesel on September 03, 2018, 07:56:01 pm
I've used a large pipe wrench before on the flange at the top of the filter but you might not have the necessary clearance.  The chisel method the ORCoaster mentioned works well also. 
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on September 08, 2018, 08:01:35 am

Try this.  Take a sharp, small chisel and place it on the edge of the filter up near the gasket. Hit that chisel with a sharp rap from a hammer to get a divot or a nice groove in the metal.  Then turn the chisel so you are driving off the filter with a hit in that direction.



This did the trick for me. The gasket was very out of shape and it took some real convincing to get the filter to start spinning.

Thanks for the tip
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on September 08, 2018, 10:38:01 pm
Glad to hear it.  I use that method on nuts that round on me too.  Or ones I can't get a pair of vice grips on.

Your tool box just got another useful tool. 
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on September 10, 2018, 09:01:13 pm
I can't seem to get it up past 60. Some light Googling reveals that they should be able to reach the 80s with the 5 speed.

I just feel like I run out of transmission real quick.

First tops out around 15
Second gets to 25ish
Third is 35ish
Fourth is 45-50
and Fifth gets to 60

But it seems like it suddenly just hits a wall in each gear and won't go past these speeds

Is this normal or not such a quick easy answer?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on September 10, 2018, 10:48:09 pm
Do you have a tach hooked up?  Perhaps the governor screw needs an adjustment?  If you are not topping the gears at somewhere near 3800 I would suspect the screw needs adjustment.  I have a 1.6L and in fifth I pretty much pull 2460 RPM/s But my shifting between gears can go to 3200 without a hitch. 

 
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: libbydiesel on September 11, 2018, 12:43:35 am
Mk1 non-turbo max rpm in a given gear should be ~5,500 rpms.  I don't typically take mine above 4,000 or so but it will do so without issue.  If you can't hit 5,000+ rpms in a lower gear, then the pump is not adjusted properly or there is some other engine issue. 
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: fatmobile on September 11, 2018, 02:31:56 am
 Hey, when you floor it,.. does the lever on the top of the pump go all the way to the high rpm stop?
Trany code?
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on September 11, 2018, 06:40:31 am
Do you have a tach hooked up?  Perhaps the governor screw needs an adjustment?

I do not have a tach hooked up. I also believe that the fuel screw is turned in to the collar

Hey, when you floor it,.. does the lever on the top of the pump go all the way to the high rpm stop?
Trany code?

When I installed a new accelerator cable it went all the way to the stop. I haven't rechecked that in some time though.

I just looked at the tranny code when I was changing the oil filter this weekend but I can't remember what it was off the top of my head. I'll check on that when I get home in a couple days
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on September 11, 2018, 01:17:52 pm
Fuel screw all the way in is on the other side of the pump.  I am talking about the screw on the front of the pump, pulley side.  I is counterclockwise screw so be aware of that.  I would loosen the locknut and do a full turn on the inner part and see what the results are.  If negative twist it back the turn and turn that direction one more turn and see if that improves performance.  Repeat until desired results are obtained. 
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: UncleDelicious on October 07, 2018, 02:07:41 pm
I haven't gotten around to this governor screw yet.

The tranny code on the bottom says 12012

When I upshift it is totally out of the power band. I'll max out a gear and then when I upshift it feels like I have 0 power until I am able to build the rpms back up

There always seems to be air in the return line as well
Title: Re: 1.6 NA not getting fuel
Post by: ORCoaster on October 07, 2018, 05:03:30 pm
YOU MUST FIX THIS FIRST!!!!!!

There always seems to be air in the return line as well

Otherwise you will never know if getting power is happening as it should or not.

I suspect seals are in need of replacement on the IP or you have an inlet line that is cracked or loose IN bolt seal.