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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: 8v-of-fury on January 18, 2012, 12:10:57 am
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How do we feel about the 1982 300TD Wagon? 5cyl OM617 turbo diesel. 400k on the clock. 4 speed auto trans.
$1800 :)
(http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/kjc/120117/211r1/4957jcj_20.jpeg)
(http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/kjc/120117/212r1/0039212_20.jpeg)
(http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/kjc/120117/212r1/6468n5i_20.jpeg)
(http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/kjc/120117/216r1/9620d3h_20.jpeg)
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Don't do it! Three times the weight and volume, only 28 mpg, and it looks well fat. And not in the good sense of the word. I had the chance to pick up my neighbors 240D for 750 and I passed on it. The thing is a boat. Stick to the simple VW. If you want big go Jetta.
Don't do IT! You'll be sorry.
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Volume I like. I'm 6'3" 260lbs lol. Itd be the best of all worlds.
240D.. is that the same OM617 5cyl turbo diesel motor? These benz's look just as simple if not more? I have heard of big power coming from the OM617's.. without too much modification.
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i have 2 sitting outside... one i put a engine in... trust me they not as simple.. they slower then a 1.6na... im really not impressed.. and 28mpg.. not that ive seen... 23-25 is more like it...
now if you needs a big car.. do a b3 wagon.. they cheap with blown trannies and such.. and mine gets aroundbetter then a 300 does.. and i get 40mpg with foot buried..
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I drove my cousins 300D it was the 5cyl TD engine. It was a slug and best it got was 29 I averaged 27mpg on my routes. The vacuum everything is a nightmare when you have to chase it down. They are a lot heavier and tires are more money when you have to buy them over a stock 13 or 14 vw tire. Oil changes are more as it takes 2 gallons or something like that and the filter is a canister type that is more money than a vw filter.
All in all it was a good car, but expensive for my tastes. It was close to 30 years old and the doors opened and shut like a brand new car. The Benz is great quality no doubt. If I wanted to pay that much to keep a car on the road I would buy a newer one. My newer TDI isn't as pricey to maintain as that 300D was.
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even if you do STEP OUT of the VW game, you wont be gone for long, i promise..
im 6'7".. i have no problems with mk2 VWs..
hell, i even fit fine in 2rd mk1s..
yea, im bigger than you, and drive smaller cars..
JUMP ON THAT 25mpg PIG!! you WILL regret it.. lol.
if you get that merc, DO NOT sell the VW.. because you will want the VW back if you sell..
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Really they are slow with nearly 190 ftlbs of torque? They dont seem hard to work on, tires are 14" cheapies :) parts are the same prices as vw stuff..
the only thing that would begin to worry me would be 30mpg.. but even then.. for such a cool car i could live with 30mpg!
DAMNIT GUYS! WHAT TO DO.
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Parts are not all the same nor as cheap as vw...unless you know of other places than I have found, but I drove the pig for 6 months and maintained it. There is no way unless you are reusing the oil to make an oil change cheaper when they take 2 gallons of oil and the filter is 10.00.
The vacuum stuff is a nightmare. I couldn't handle it. If it was newer I am sure all the rubber and lines would be ok, but this is a 30 year old car and it wasn't for me.
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I see what you're saying, 8v, those old mercs are beautiful machines built like tanks IMO. I looked through autopartsway.ca, and there are lots of parts available for seemingly reasonable prices. It would be tempting for me but the poorer fuel economy would be the deciding factor against.
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When I was discussing the purchase possibilities with my neighbor he did this look from the VW to the Benz. Then he said something to the effect that if I think the VW is slow to move up in speed, being the diesel and not the gas version, what he was sell can hardly get out of its own way. Yeah the 5 cyl motor was in there, the torque is there but they are "Grampa Slow" He recommended I stick with the VW and let his go to some kid who would turn it into a veggie oil burner and keep themselves from getting hurt with fools speed.
Room is nice but you are going to pay for it with hugeness, both at the pump, parts and time overall.
Recommedation: DON'T DO IT.
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OriginalGangsterCoaster- You really hate on the benz wagons! lol
its just soo damn cool :( what about if it were a sedan? or a coupe? I don't think they're THAT slow.. how can they be? Maybe the one you were looking at wasnt a turbo diesel? Because those ones would be deathly slow.. same power as the 1.6td..
dieseweasel- Hells yah autopartsway.ca for the win :) parts are the same price for vw stuff. struts, brakes, steering, lights.. blah blah all same prices.. damnit.. if i werent tight on money meaning id have to get rid of my vw to have it.. id buy it in a heartbeat..!
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Not really the Benz Hater like it sounds but having come from a family with 7 kids anything that resembles a station wagon used for the 11 hr drives to Grandma's house just makes me irritable.
I actually considered buying a coupe version of what your are shown so if you have to have this beast, and I emphasize that it looks beasty to me.
Then by all means have at it. Just be prepared for those cute girls at the market to look at one another and shrug there shoulders and comment that he didn't look like a grandpa. Why the car?
You will be a hit with the friends, all 24 of them that you can pile in this thing and take to the lake. Kind of offsets the poor mileage. Think miles per person. 24 friends X 100 miles / 24 mpg = 100 friendmiles/gallon Better than if you drive alone in the VW and get yourself there and 50 friendmiles/gallon.
You say you're a big fella, got a family? Kids farther back where they can't kick the seat is a bonus. That trunk will eat all the luggage for a weeks trip and have plenty for souvenirs.
Your money, your call.
ps trailer the VW.
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MMMM Benz wagon. I'd only do it if you were planning on running veg. There are many other vehicles that get 30 mpg that I would buy before a Benz.
With a few tweaks and a turbo swap they can be decent. The bloody vac lines are probably the #1 reason why I have yet to own one myself
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Vac lines aren't hard to deal with, replace them all :)
A diesel wagon though man, how much better could it get? Not to mention the W123 body is amazingly engineered.
Upon further thinking, and much needed talking down by the lady friend.. I don't "need" another car.. women, what do they know anyhow?
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Vac lines aren't hard to deal with, replace them all :)
A diesel wagon though man, how much better could it get? Not to mention the W123 body is amazingly engineered.
Upon further thinking, and much needed talking down by the lady friend.. I don't "need" another car.. women, what do they know anyhow?
its not the vacuum lines, its EVERYTHING they control..
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Not really the Benz Hater like it sounds but having come from a family with 7 kids anything that resembles a station wagon used for the 11 hr drives to Grandma's house just makes me irritable.
I actually considered buying a coupe version of what your are shown so if you have to have this beast, and I emphasize that it looks beasty to me.
Then by all means have at it. Just be prepared for those cute girls at the market to look at one another and shrug there shoulders and comment that he didn't look like a grandpa. Why the car?
You will be a hit with the friends, all 24 of them that you can pile in this thing and take to the lake. Kind of offsets the poor mileage. Think miles per person. 24 friends X 100 miles / 24 mpg = 100 friendmiles/gallon Better than if you drive alone in the VW and get yourself there and 50 friendmiles/gallon.
You say you're a big fella, got a family? Kids farther back where they can't kick the seat is a bonus. That trunk will eat all the luggage for a weeks trip and have plenty for souvenirs.
Your money, your call.
ps trailer the VW.
Now you got me Lolling. :D.
Miles per person. If I did it that way i'd never pay for fuel again ;) each gives $5? decent lol.
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The Mileperson idea is actually from the travel business I think. They say airplanes are a good way to travel because even though they eat fuel like a 1000 Rabbits they transport a lot of people at one time. Same with a bus or SUV. It was their stab at trying to take some of the heat off the large amount of fuel being consumsed for travelers.
If you do get this beasty boy. You have to paint it. That car it already two toned. Get rid of the MB colors and it might look a lot better. Grab one of the new colors they have going with some of the recent cars.
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dont do it.... no rust coating.......
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Alright 8V this is down right freaky. I come up to the apartment and there in my parking spot is a white, old, beater of a 300D wagon. How did he do that? I am not that down on those cars.
Turns out it belongs to the lady upstairs visiting friend from CA. It is in way worse shape than what you are looking at for sure. But her's had a deer horn on the dash and some other questionable stuff in there. Very earthy looking.
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I can't believe the number of negative responses. Coming from a guy who has a W116 300SD and a 300D (as well as 2 240Ds), if I had it to do all over again I would just buy a 300TD and forget the rest of them. This is the ultimate diesel Benz. This is also a very good price on a wagon. Yes, you will get high 20s. Yes, it will have vacuum issues. Yes, it takes 2 gallons of oil ( filters are $6 from AZAH etc). So what? It was built when price was no object, before MB had any bean counters, before Lexus and Infinity.
EDIT: 400k on the clock? Wow, no wonder it's cheap... That would make me think twice... especially where you are. I have an instrument cluster I pulled from a 300CD in the boneyard that had 500K on it, so anything is possible, but that's a bunch of miles even on an OM617...
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HAH that looks just like the one I used to have... It was a great car, ran the tar out of it till the rust finally won... I knew every vac line and connection in that thing.. Finally caved and converted the locks to electric.. The HVAC was like playing a slot machine.. Hit the button and see what temp air comes out where.. ;D The hydraulic suspension was awesome though.. I put a literal TON of bags of mortar in the back and it didn't squat.. Didn't really slow it down too terribly much either.. Of course it wasn't that fast to begin with..
But truth be told, the economy compares to my Craprice Wagon that runs on cheaper fuel and has more get up and go.. (Actually the Chevy costs 1 cent LESS per mile) Some parts are not too bad, some are just plain painful (look up a blower motor for the HVAC) The VW is much more fun to drive around town, but the Benz is the only way to go on a road trip..
The 400K is probablly the scariest part.. Much like old VW's it probably wasn't maintained as it should.. If it was meticulously maintained (with records) that may be a different story.. I'd bet the timing chain hasn't been touched and is stretched.. Have the valves been adjusted somewhat on time? Rs899 can check my facts for me, but I believe this on has the earlier style vac control for the trans which is touchy to get adjusted right.. And has that trans fluid ever been changed?
If it were me, I'd buy it, they are indeed the ultimate Benz, and getting hard to find for less than the price of a good used kidney... But I like big cars with some bells and whistles, and a may be a tad nuts..
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That one has the later 722.315 transmission, which is a very reliable unit, but at 400K must have been changed by now ( 250K is average life). They did have tricky vacuum modulation adjustments and are known for firm (!) shifts. There are ways to diddle them through upgraded valve body springs.
So what happened? Did all the nay-sayers queer the deal?
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I guess my point is that this is a VW forum and you should expect the posts to favor VW.
FWIW I agree with Maxfax's above post. They are good cars, but for me pretty scarey to maintain. The ride is great, cadillac like, especially on freeways. Now the deal is I would buy it BUT I wouldn't get rid of one VW to do it. It was a great supplimental car for me, but I wouldn't want to have only it for a DD. I would definately want a VW for backup.
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So what happened? Did all the nay-sayers queer the deal?
No, reality did ;). I wanted it, didnt need it lol. It was perfect though.
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Too bad. They are really good cars. I have my 300SD and it is really a great car. Sure the vacuum system is a bit of a pain, but so is the climate controls in a Mk2 with A/C! :P I've solved a few tiny issues on the Mk4 and the Benz with just a vacuum diagram and a vac tester. I find it easier to diagnose than electrical most times.
As for the lack of speed, it is about on par with the Mk2 TD.
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Too bad. They are really good cars. I have my 300SD and it is really a great car. Sure the vacuum system is a bit of a pain, but so is the climate controls in a Mk2 with A/C! :P I've solved a few tiny issues on the Mk4 and the Benz with just a vacuum diagram and a vac tester. I find it easier to diagnose than electrical most times.
As for the lack of speed, it is about on par with the Mk2 TD.
mk2 a/c HVAC is rather simple.. theres a vacuum freed to the selector, and then theres 5 or 6 lines out of it, to connect to various vacuum actuators.. most of the lines only go to one spot. its IMPOSSIBLE to hook the lines up wrong at the selector, because they are all in one connector..
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I have my 300SD and it is really a great car.
I had an 81 300SD and have to agree.. Leaps and bounds beyond the W123 chassis cars I've had.. I don;t know what they did different on that 617 but the damn thing would burn out (slightly) and never got less than 27 mpg... Handled quite well too.. Story is there were no euro spec 300SD's except for Japan but many of the parts on this one were indeed for the euro spec car, and the handling alone was very European... Maybe it was a grey market car or something, it did come from Jersey....
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I've "almost" took the mid-late 80's 300TD wagon plunge a couple of times.
They are neat, and have their place if you need that much car.
Around here in good condition, they get pricey.
Very popular with WVO and potential WVO'er crowd.
Rock solid cars and safe as a bulldozer.
A particular Dk.Blue/Dk.Blue interior model in creampuff condition was a battle to resist.
In the end and up til now - glad i didn't.
There is NO replacement for 48-52 mpg - it gets in your blood.
Actually in my pre-VW Diesel day, what i wanted to make the switch to Diesel with was a mid-late 80's 190D MB. After a couple months of unsuccessful local searches, and getting outbid on several on eBay - i took it as a sign. Found an 89 Jetta NA for $800 and that gave birth to 4 more VW Dzlz. Its been good.
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Interesting thread as down here in the FLA these things pop up often on craigslist. Some people want retarded amounts of money, others are reasonable. Everything from Estates to a few of the coupes I've seen. The only way I can get the fiance to even consider it is if its A: NOT A WAGON (she says) and B: I have to sell or trade the Eco to do it.
Ive put too much love into the Eco to get rid of it, its my first Mk2 after lusting over them for decades, and first VW that I owned as well.
I just love old big bodied Benzs. Like this one selling in St. Pete
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/cto/2760077581.html
He probably should of moved the car from where he normally parks it (as indicated by all the soot on the ground there) as to mask the ton of fluid leaks on the ground, before taking the picture.
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our VWs are basically the ferraris of diesel cars..
i could not imagine driving that big of a boat, that got HALF the mileage of my diesel..
i mean, sure, dont get me wrong, you can prolly make the benz pretty powerful, but its still a HUGE car with vacuum control issues..
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i me but its still a HUGE car with vacuum control issues..
Although I'd rather have the vac issues in some aspects.. The engine will run sans vacuum.. It will run sans electricity.. Head gaskets rarely fail, timing chains last a long time.. Suspension is pretty durable too (ask me how I know ;D)
I ditched a pretty minty caddy many moons ago (after a HG failure no less) for a 300SD, and never looked back.. Yeah It got less mileage, had vac issues, the power windows took a poo a few times times (of course the crank windows took a poo once or twice in the caddy ::)).. But the damned thing always remained driveable.. I drove it 300 miles with a dead alt, part of that with wipers and lights on... Had a major vac system meltdown 2 states away and still drove it home, just had to pop the hood and hit the manual shut off.. It even managed a 12 miles round trip with no coolant and lived..
I guess what I'm sayin is there isn't much to break on a VW, but what does break is usually necessary..
Now if you wanna talk about the ultimate of diesel cars let's talk GM 5.7 ;D
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Now if you wanna talk about the ultimate of diesel cars let's talk GM 5.7 ;D
Don't even start.. lmao.
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Now if you wanna talk about the ultimate of diesel cars let's talk GM 5.7 ;D
Don't even start.. lmao.
if you put a bosch pump on a GM diesel, it would be a good engine..
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if you put a bosch pump on a GM diesel, it would be a good engine..
I depends which engine we're talking about.. The pump was one of the few good points about the 5.7.. When they decided to put little black boxes on Stanadyne DB pumps such as on the 6.5m things really went to poo..
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if you put a bosch pump on a GM diesel, it would be a good engine..
I depends which engine we're talking about.. The pump was one of the few good points about the 5.7.. When they decided to put little black boxes on Stanadyne DB pumps such as on the 6.5m things really went to poo..
well, its because they decided to bury it on the back of the pump, down in the valley of the engine..
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well, its because they decided to bury it on the back of the pump, down in the valley of the engine..
That's about 80% of the issue.. The other 20% being that it was a cheapo piece of crap..
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I have owned a 85 300TD wagon like the one pictured. The milage does suck. Properly tuned they are not dogs though. I have a 1.6TD caddy and a 245 Volvo that I put a D24T in and the Benz would smoke both of them. If I were to get into another Benz it would be a later 6 cylinder 3.0 TD. maybe an 87 or so. As for the vacuum controls you just have to tune the turbo, anoroid, and transmission together and they really run well.
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Been about a year and a half since I got my '85 300SD. Still love the car, and have had no major issues. About the only thing I've done to it aside from regular maintenance, is change out the original water pump and V-belts.
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I am sad I didnt jump on that.. it was stupid cheap and so clean!
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And the Hydrolix suspension is a horror to 1. pay for and 2. work on. In their day an interesting car. Today not so much unless you have extra income and willing to part with it. Been there done that. 12 years ago. But it is your decision.
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Haha nothing is hard to work on. There are set procedures and there is just nuts and bolts to remove. If you look at everything this way, you can accomplish anything. 2 years ago I pretty much knew Jack about the in depth knowledge of these diesels. Now I daily my own entirely hand built M-TDI.. its all easy peasy to me.
Plus doing all the work yourself saves a heap of money.
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I've been in and out of Mercedes diesels, and a few gassers over the years inbtween and often while owning A1 and A2 VW diesels, and a gasser Scirocco.
The Mercedes W123/126 is a different animal. The VW is a small, light, cheap car. And it shows, for better or for worse. My 81 had 645K on it and my 82 has 400K, I've had NA's and TD's and now an AAZ that was TD and is now NA. I've owned a couple TD W123's, couple W126's, one of which was an SDL with the later 3L diesel.
As one might reasonably expect from a car that cost 4x or more what a Rabbit D did, they do cost more to maintain.
Also as one might expect being considerably larger and heavier with considerably more engine power output, they do require more fuel and do not drive like a go-kart.
That being said, every single time I get back in a well sorted old Mercedes, I wonder WTF is wrong with me that I don't drive one every day.
There are no better sedans, or wagons, built in the 80's. At any price.
Much like a tired rabbit with worn out shift linkage and bad motor mounts and strut mounts and warped rotors, an old Mercedes will be miserable to drive if it isn't well kept.
Much of the negative opinion about handling and acceleration, and to a lesser degree fuel consumption, is from opinions formed of bad examples.
This is much the same as the average car-ish oriented person believing all VW diesels constantly overheat, blow headgaskets, can't keep up with traffic, smoke like crazy, vibrate in the extreme and are generally miserable vehicles to have to operate, with the one redeeming feature being the fuel mileage.
None of these popular generalizations are true when given a good example of either.
Both the W123 and W126 are stunningly GOOD cars. The brakes are essentially perfect, the handling among it's peers of that era, and even today, is excellent for such a large sedan, and the acceleration of a well tuned OM617, turbo of course, is more than adequate. My last 83 300D would bark second on dry pavement and had a flat steady acceleration that was very pleasing, and while I never compared a Mercedes to a 1.6L TD, I'd guess off hand that especially at mid and higher speeds, there would be no contest.
I believe the 1.9L AAZ in TD trim would give a good OM617 car a run for it's money however, depending on gearing. Stock for stock of course.
The Mercedes are a joy to work on all in all, they are extremely serviceable with parts and systems several orders of magnitude beyond what VW had, there are no crappy ill fitting stamped parts on those cars, no gross adjustment to account for production slop, the interior and mechanical parts quality is just overall exactly what one would expect.
Mercedes-Benz used to be Mercedes-Benz for a reason.
The vacuum system, especially pertaining to transmission shifting, is elegant and works well, IF it's in good order. If it's not it can be adjusted to crutch one along in a usable state for a very long time. My one regret is that there were not more manual transmission models sold in the US. It's a real shame as a 4 or 5spd Euro 300D is a different animal all together. Conversions are possible with 240D parts but it's less than ideal for a number of reasons, and true Euro manual stuff is hard to find.
The hydraulic SLS system works beautifully and is a godsend when you actually USE a wagon like that, you can put any even unreasonable load in that car and it will level up and drive well with it. Something I missed badly in Volvo wagons I've owned (a few), the Nivomat was never the system it should have been. Again, this is a system you have to spend a few bucks on every 100K miles or more, not counting filters and fluid changes. People buy these cars worn out and neglected and then *** and moan about repair costs when they have to catch up ten years of neglected maintenance. It happens, buy wisely and be reasonable.
They are not as cheap to maintain, but when a given thing is repaired correctly with quality parts it tends to last for a very long time. And you can actually still get quality parts, the very existence of The Mercedes Classic Center is a testament to the ongoing commitment of the manufacturer, something VAG does not provide in the slightest.
My last one was a 73 280 sedan, W114 chassis, gasser. If anything I think it handled and braked better than a W123, and was a stunningly attractive old car. The fuel mileage from the M110 dual cam carb'd six was atrocious, but otherwise as a daily driven forty year old car, original interior and no small number of mechanical parts @ 130K miles or so, it was examplarery.
I have driven and do drive VW diesels since I was 16 and I'm now 35, I grew up with them. I love them dearly and know them well.
But they are not in the same class as a Mercedes sedan of that era, nor should they be.
They have there own charms and I have enjoyed and benefited from them for many hundreds of thousands of miles.
I'd damn sure have one of these before some other cheap economy car, but that is essentially what they are.
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The fuel economy isn't so bad either...we have over a million kms on one, and another half million on the other beaters we have owned over the years. The can easily approach 40mpg vs 55mpg in a 1.6 td driven the same way. I have seen 45mpg in bone stock high mile form. I am trying to modify and lighten one car to see 50mpg with a Giles built pump.
The Mercedes of the 80s is servicable, meaning EVERYTHING comes apart no rusted fastners, no replacing parts just fix it or rebuild it, the front wheel bearings have nice locking retainers not cotter pins holding them, whatever metal they used for hardware is simply amazing even in my climate and salt use. They are worth keeping on the road. If you don't like maintaining something they are not your cup of tea, every vehicle requires maintanace, some just don't work as well others with neglect. Those Mercedes diesels will be the only thing left running after a serious war or event, zero electronics. The handle so much better then any VW (stock) is it hilarious to drive hard, their weight makes them great winter sleds. I have owned many VW and Mercedes diesels, I always have a Mercedes on the road I refuse to sell all of them! They are also true veg oil engines, injection pump is engine oil lubed. They require slightly more care then a VW, not much more and certain things like brakes were so much better designed you never have to service them, just replace every few years (fixed calipers not floating). I wish they modern ones were built as well as the 30-40 year old stuff...
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Been looking at a 300D wagon for some time. Never could get the owner to sell it even though he doesn't drive it.
We decided on a sedan, mainly because it was available. It is a 85 300D turbo and have had it now for a couple of months.
At first it was sluggish with an internally leaking EGR and a device that had something like a waste gate on the intake side of the turbo. It needed certain conditions and rpm to shut it off and let the boost come up. It is a weird antipollution device. You would roll down the road at 55 mph at less than one pound of boost then it would come on and be at 6psi. No way to regulate it between. That is fixed now and the mid range is much stronger in normal driving. Then I made up a boost controller and brought the max boost up from 9 to 14 psi. Something that I plan on doing to my vw.
Here is Benzilla. I have done some body work on it and repainted the quarter panel.
(http://veloliner.com/mb/benzilllas.JPG)
It handles well particularly on rough corners. So far the best mileage is 32 mpg.
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I looked at MB diesels briefly before decided on a VW. What turned me away was an older friend of mine who has owned several MBs says the parts are very expensive. Every MB I looked at that I could afford needed some major parts replaced. The ones that were decent were through the roof. Granted some people sell old mk1's for outrageous prices, but I see a few new and then for very good prices, and that's how I found mine.
I suppose it is the same for MBs as it is for VWs, they are more than just a car you drive around, they are a hobby and a passion. If you buy a VW, MB, or any other old diesel, expect to work on it and develop a "relationship" of sorts with it.
There's a reason why not everyone wants to own a 20-30 year old car, even if it gets 40mpg ;) We probably wouldn't do it either if we didn't have this strange love for them.
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I was sucked in on the 40mpg mark :P
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Yes there are some parts that are weirdly expensive but owning one is not that bad, there is kind of a myth about repair costs and insurance.
I have heard that a new window crank motor is expensive. It uses 5 glow plugs, 5 injectors. All the same as the vw, just one more. The normal repair parts and gaskets are inexpensive, with several manufacturers making them. It does take 8 quarts of oil and more coolant. I wanted one without a computer and with diesel for cheap. Try and find a car that fits that classification.
Have had mine for over 2 months I have done a little body work and repainted some areas. Undone many areas of neglect, ball joints, tires, fuel injectors. Have a total of about $1000 in maintenance in it. I have a set of belts, fuel filters, oil filters. I still want to get new shocks although it rides smooth and maybe a second set of wheels for summer use.
We have a lot of rough roads and the ground clearance is about like a similar sized SUV. With snow tires on all 4 it has decent traction.
I hope to drive mine for at least 10 years. Maybe in 20 I will still have both my MB and VW.
If you want one then get one, If you don't then don't, helps to keep the demand down.
Should add: I don't think that 40 mpg would be impossible to get. Mine was getting 28 and after some tuning I am up to 32-33 in 50 deg weather. It would take a hot day, light foot to keep the boost low and not any headwind. Time will tell.
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The fuel economy isn't so bad either...we have over a million kms on one, and another half million on the other beaters we have owned over the years. The can easily approach 40mpg vs 55mpg in a 1.6 td driven the same way. I have seen 45mpg in bone stock high mile form.
You Canucks and your giant gallons!
I work on quite a few of the older MBZ, and have found no part that cant be had cheap from the JY in good order.
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^^..if you can find them in JYs now. Five years ago a visit to my favorite yard in DAB would find 10 of them. Now , only one.
I just sold my '83 300D. It never got more than 28. I think the '85 would be the only one that would get you over 30.
They are built a lot tougher than VWs. But rebuilding the front end is an expensive endeavor. VW struts are real cheap.
I still have 2 240Ds and a W116 300SD to play with, but wanted to get rid of an automatic that was going to need work eventually (240k)
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85's a good year for the w123 and 126 diesel.
The W123 in 85 had the blue oval vacuum transducer to try and un-insane the ***ting on the vac controlled automatic.
Watch those switches on top of the valve cover, and learn the vacuum diagrams, and mind the trans line pressure.
Ditch all that smog crap.
I can't remember if the W123 got the higher stall speed converter and taller rear axle ratio or just the W126, it makes a difference though.
I averaged 25 with a lead foot on most of mine, strong cars. I've seen 30mpg but not regularly. I'm sure it's possible.
US MPG mind you. Compared to the 14 the gasser version got it was outstanding, it's not a light car.
It's not a VW, in any respect, for sometimes better (usually) and sometimes worse.
That thing cost a small fortune new, a handful of Rabbit's worth of cash.
I miss my Mercedes, every time I buy another one I wonder why in hell I've been
driving anything else.
I drove a straight euro 5spd (not 4) non-turbo W123 sedan once, it was a GREAT car.
Very different character. The conversions are not quite the same but are a good start.
My next W123 will be a 240D for the manual climate control and windows and sunroof, with an
OM617 and a manual trans.
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My next W123 will be a 240D for the manual climate control and windows and sunroof, with an
OM617 and a manual trans.
Did the 240D come with the 617? or just the 616?
240D MY 1977–1983 - OM616.912 62-67 hp (46 kW) @ 4000 97 lb·ft (132 N·m) @ 2400
Ungodly gutless that thing would be lol.
I frigged up, I shoulda bought that damn wagon!
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From what I understand the 240d had the 2.4 616 and the 300d had the 3.0 617
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Yep, 240 was the 4cyl, 300 5cyl. The latter was NA briefly before it got the turbo OM617. That turbo motor originall came in the old W116
chassis S Class car, which was a fine car in and of itself other than maybe the climate control, and US bumpers.
W123 chassis is close enough between the 4/5cyl that one can swap em around without too much grief.
I'd actually like to rebuild and turbo/intercool the little 4, it was done back in the day and I know stock 617 turbo
power can be had from it with reasonable lifespan. There is a very pleasant amount of room under-hood
with the smaller motor in the w123. People use the 240D 4spd manual with the 617, there are technically some balance
issues, and in fact the service manual says not to do it interestingly, but a lot of folks have now. The euro manual 5cyl flywheel
is unobtainable, much like the actual 5spd. Less known is that the pumps are calibrated differently for manual/auto. Having a stick
on an auto pump'd motor feels "weird" but you can get used to it, the mile of crazy German throttle linkage isn't helping matters
but again time breeds familiarity. All those old Mercs were that way to a degree, lots of throttle travel, you really had to foot-down
on them. My last daily Merc was a 73 280 gasser with the dual cam M110 I-6, carb'd with an exhaust and euro manifolds and a tweaked
carb, fun car if not overly efficient. The W114/115 is a better chassis in a lot of ways than the W123 in my opinion. And dirt cheap.
Getting off track I know, but another thought has been that a Volvo 240 wagon would be a good place for a turbo 617 to live.
I appreciate the diesel they were available with, but they are scarce and expensive to repair relative to the Mercedes motor.
I think that'd be a good driver after it was sorted out. There was a kid on turbobricks that put a TDI in one awhile ago
with great success.
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Wolf
Seems like a work to pull the motor on a mercedes and adapt it into a volvo. Mercedes has already addressed all the issues with making the engine work. What advantage would you have?
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No doubt it'd be a job. Made considerably easier by getting hold of an original diesel front core support, more room underhood lengthwise.
I'm just a fan of the 240 chassis, it's cheaper and more plentiful than the W123, and there is considerable upgradeability
for the brakes and suspension these days, and pretty decent parts support in general, again cheaply.
If the original diesel that was available in them was, well, available, and not such a bear to rebuild, it would be less
appealing. The redblock is a fine motor as far as gassers go, but it's still a gasser.
The 240 is a damn fine car, I've owned six or so over the years. It is crude in comparison to the Mercedes equivalent
of the day in a lot of ways, but it works very well.
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This one's for sale near where I live. I've been thinking of going to see it. Ad says 300,000 miles, but it could be Km. Good deal or not?
http://comoxvalley.en.craigslist.ca/cto/3588232645.html
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This one's for sale near where I live. I've been thinking of going to see it. Ad says 300,000 miles, but it could be Km. Good deal or not?
http://comoxvalley.en.craigslist.ca/cto/3588232645.html
All depends, the mileage wouldn't scare me if it's been maintained. Drive it and see.