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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Wltrc on May 31, 2020, 07:01:41 pm
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Engine in question is a 1.6d naturally aspirated, year unknown. Came out of a rabbit pickup. I have it bolted up to a transmission from a mk3 Jetta, 1996. Originally the tranny was mated to an aaz.
I bought a supposed "ran when pulled" engine, the guy showed me a video of it running in the car before he pulled it (how old was the video? Who knows)
When I recieved the engine there was no timing belt on it, no biggie I planned to replace it anyway. Got the crank lined up with the mark on transmission, pinned the injection pump and locked the cam with #1 cylinder showing both valves completely closed.
Pulled the crank sprocket and checked the keyway, looks really good on crank and sprocket no signs of wear. New bolt going in of course.
Got the new timing belt on and tensioned and proceeded to rotate the engine over gently by hand, got roughly a quarter turn and then "clunk" uh oh. Looks like piston #2 or #3 is making contact with a valve as they are the ones furthest out at the time of stoppage. I double checked all my timing marks and they are dead on, turned again and stopped same spot.
Before I pull the #1 injector to check that it is in fact at TDC, is there anything obvious I'm missing? Is the timing mark on the newer transmission in a different spot? Also there is no vacuum pump attached at the moment if that makes a difference. Engine is not in the car just hanging from my hoist. I want to test fire it up before I put it in the vehicle
Thanks in advance for any input.
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You should pull the injector from the #1 cylinder and verify the TDC on the flywheel. That may be off and that could be the trouble. That is the easy button to push.
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I think I remember hearing something about gas flywheels having different timing marks than diesel flywheels? Maybe there's a gas flywheel on it?
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...it's been known to happen that due to a failure of attention, the flywheel will get assembled without lining up the pins which just get mashed in the process. That gives a couple different orientations that are decidedly wrong and will cause piston/valve contact when timed using the correct marks. As ORCoaster mentioned, confirm TDC.
One other thought comes to mind. Loosen all the cam caps and see if it then spins over fine. If not then the head has to come off.
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thanks for the replies, i pulled the injector out of number one cylinder and discovered that when the mark on the flywheel was lined up with the bellhousing the piston was about 1/4 of the way up. I took my time and very diligently got the cylinder to tdc and then marked the flywheel with a punch. The engine rotates around now perfectly, with lots of compression too i might add.
Once I locate a vacuum pump I'll be ready to test fire this engine and if all goes well install it into the rig.
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What method did you use to ensure that you were EXACTLY at TDC for #1?
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Used a bit of wire stuck down the injector hole, marked with a sharpie and rocked the crank back and forth and compared the mark on the wire with a horizontal plain until it was centered, if that makes sense. Without some kind of dial indicator apparatus I wasn't sure how to get it EXACTLY at TDC. My dial indicator wouldn't reach down in far enough to reach the piston.
It rotates freely without any binding so guess I'll find out when I go to start it. Unless there's a trick to get the indicator in there?
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Glad it was that easy. Sometimes I tend to go way overboard only to take a giant step backwards, Mother May I? Lots of possible reasons for the mark to be that far off but you won't go wrong now with the proper mark on the flywheel. Did you remember to paint it white or yellow? Easier to see than red like OEM ones.
What did you use for your timing setting? 1.0 or something closer to that label on the strut mount?
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Here's a method I have used for finding exact TDC that does not require any fancy equipment. Remove the glowplug (and not the injector) from either #1 or #4 (#4 works easily for this). Rotate the crank until it is rising on the compression stroke for the cylinder. Then use a length of clear tubing pushed into the glow plug hole. Make a good seal around it. If necessary, use grease or sealant. Then place the other length of the hose in a container (preferably clear) of water. Rotate the crankshaft slowly and you will see bubbles coming out of the tubing. At exact TDC, the bubbles will stop moving out of the tube and water will start being pulled in.
Considering the engine is not even installed in the car, I would pull the trans off and check the flywheel to make sure all alignment pins and bolts are properly installed in pressure plate to crank and flywheel to pressure plate.
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I'm going to by a paint pen and make a mark on the chisel groove I made.
Set the timing to 1.0mm
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Thanks for the tip I'll give that a go. As far as the flywheels concerned it's only for the test run, I've got a partial tranny bolted up so I can start it. If it runs well I'll be putting it in my Suzuki with an acme flywheel
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For anyone else reading this.
There is a mark on the other end of the crank.
A bump on the sprocket that lines up with a hole in the pully.
It's usually at about 7:30 when the engine is at TDC.
That's if the crank key hasn't been moved.
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Thank fatmobile, it appears that little nub is sitting where you stated. I don't own a laptop and can't figure out how to upload pics from my phone or I'd do that to show you
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Yeah, it's not accurate enough to time it with but it will most times let you know if your clutch is bolted on wrong.
Also wanted to mention;
when my pistons slammed my valves
the crank turned all the way around nicely.
Even with the belt off.
So when you said your pistons are hitting your valves when you turn it by hand,
I saw that as good news.
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It runs! Guess I got the timing right haha
Didn't run it for very long because I had no coolant running through it on the stand, hope to get it into the Suzuki in the next week or so
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Glad you got it that far. Always good to hear when someone gets a diesel back up and running.
You could have just stuck a hose in the head and let the water pour out to get it revved up.
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Yea I thought about doing that but I dont really have anywhere to do it without making a mess. No drain in the shop. Definitely was good to hear it flash up tho, can finally continue forward with my project now.
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Got the acme flywheel on, Suzuki transmission in and the timing mark lines up. So I guess maybe I had a VW gas flywheel on the engine before. Good to know
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Yeah, I use the gasser flywheels.
Because they are 210mm, instead of the stock diesel 200mm.
I've had the 200mm flywheels slip.
Always have to make my own marks.
One at TDC and one at 12 BTDC,
that's where I time it at idle with a pulse detector and timing light.
You replaced the intermediate shaft bearing while the engine was out right?
Or at least checked them?
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Fatmobile, do you get the signal for the timing light off the injector lines or the GP hole. I have two of those devices that convert a signal, one mechanical the other optical to trigger the timing light. I might have to see what the difference would be between the two.
I think the optical should be 23 degrees and mechanical 12. That is what the Snap On manual mentions.
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The intermediate bearing were ok, no play and rolled smoothly.
I picked up an intake manifold from a carbed rabbit, the giant diesel one wouldn't alloy the Suzuki hood to close. Will it be able to provide enough air? The opening on the diesel air box is roughly the same size as the gas one. It will be plumbed into a 2 inch pipe and then to a 4 inch cone filter
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So you didn't look at the intermediate shaft bearings?
You should if it's a used engine.
I use a pulse detector off the fuel line,
to trigger the timing light.
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^^^^Indeed.^^^^
Pull the intermediate shaft out and look at the outer bearing. Even without noticeable play the bearings often flake apart. That's a LOT easier to deal with prior to installing the engine. There is an o-ring around the intermediate shaft seal carrier that should be replaced if you pull the carrier. Replacing the seal would be wise as well.
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I didn't lay eyes on the bearings themselves no.
In my current configuration since the engine is mounted front to back I can easily pull the shaft out the front of the vehicle. I will do that once I find all the bits and pieces to turbo the engine, if I decide to do so.
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Thanks for the answer Fatmobile. I remembered later that the Snap On meter I have has a magnetic pickup that goes in the flywheel inspect hole. It senses that big gob of metal on the flywheel and that is what sends a signal to the meter. That is adjusted for the 23 degrees BTDC in order to get the meter to read the proper timing. It is a direct reading on the meter.
The optical version I have sees the fire in the hole that is created by the combustion of the fuel injected into the cylinder. That is later than the mechanical click that the fuel line sensor shows. I should put the three types on at the same time and see what sort of difference there is between them. The timing light has an advance dial on it but I am not so sure it will be good enough to pick up the difference between the mechanical and optical signal.
Once I have it at TDC I should measure the mm on the injection pump and scribe it on the yellow tag on the strut mount. Oh for a day when I have nothing better to do, eh?