VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: polo_td on August 16, 2010, 04:33:13 pm
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Hi just want to show you my ride.
Its a 93 polo "stielheck".
Click the links for more info and videos.
There´s been some more updates after this i.e intercooler etc.
please comments really needed to boost my building and to get some new ideas..
build info:
http://z8.invisionfree.com/POLO3/index.php?s=6e0d428558703f87f42908f122370b84&showtopic=7338&st=0 (http://z8.invisionfree.com/POLO3/index.php?s=6e0d428558703f87f42908f122370b84&showtopic=7338&st=0)
Some vid´s:
My Black stielheck Polo td 0-100km/h 86c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBSclfhs-84#)
polo td (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMexvfefXCg&feature=related#)
polo td acc 0-100 4fun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1871oY7BGdY&feature=related#)
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woah i didn't realize there was actually a small block diesel other than the later direct injection stuff. thats awesome, any pictures of the head off? also this engine is cross flow right?
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me want
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Hi.
Yes there is a small block diesel, but no i dont have any pics with the top of.
I have a extra head and i can take some pics on that one if its interesting?
thomas
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Hi all, just want to show you how this car was before conversion.
This i not my car but exactly the same otherwise.
Its 48bhp std........
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yeah id love to see the spare head
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Ok, pics later today?
thomas
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Hi again.
Noticed that i missed the link to the video showing the car before i converted it to a turbo.
polo 1.4 D sprint (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W73z6lX44b4&feature=related#)
Pics of the head is on it´s way, will upload these later today.
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Here´s some pics of the spare head as promised.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/d81201064953A83b4.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/f51201065019A5876.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/3d1201065044A6fd4.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
And here is a pic of the block.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/b21201065125A2512.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
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looks like that thing would flow LOADS better than a US spec diesel head..
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Hi.
This is how its lookslike now.
2010 edition.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/e0201025749PMdd16.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/de201024950PMaad0.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
Sweden
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Great car! Not many "breadvan" polo's around, thats for sure. good job.
The cross flow head is indeed an interesting one eh? but, VW seemed happy to use counterflow for so long, it can't be so bad.
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i just wanna bump this cause it was cool
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Hi again.
Started with the car project again.
This time i will rebuild the pump ith LDA.
The car exterior will be wider due to rear axel mods.
Something like this, Polo rallye style!!!
(http://forumbilder.se/images/3b4201164801P9191.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Interior will be updated aswell.
Brakes are done, 256mm ventilated disc.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/aa201190807AM50ea.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Rear disc convertion, Masterbrakecylinder uppgraded to 23mm instead of 20mm. Braided hoses all around Hoses and pads haven´t arrived yet thou.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/aa201191007AM2dc0.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/5b620111231576c16.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
A bit messy to get the handbrake wires to work, i did a sleeve to be able to keep the original wires.
Rear camber angle adjusted to -2 degree.
Intecooler from BMW 525tds and turbo from the same car and a new manifold will be done.
Oilcooler and sandwich plate from Volvo Group-A with internal termostat is already mounted.
Clutch and pressure plate upgraded to a high spec. version (200bhp, 280Nm)
200mm instead of 180mm as std.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/69201192018AMea2d.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
thomas
The Black steilheck
Sweden
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i would say these heads probably don't flow better than a 1.6td head, although they are cross flow, cross flow is not really better in terms of flow, just better for heat and that is negligible. aba heads hardly flow better than 8v counter flow heads with similar sized valves. but i would say judging by how close the port is to the deck, both ports make a very hard 90 degree turn into the chamber hurting flow, and also even tho that head is cross flow the intake ports are right next to the prechamber where there is ALOT of heat. cool engine regardless, i just doubt it flows any better
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nice project
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I have just stumbled across this, it looks identical to a normal petrol polo lump apart from the injector pump on the back end! is this a standard engine? or is it a diesel made from a petrol lump?
Probably an engine we couldnt get here in the UK, which is a shame!
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cool project, but motor is in backwards and the IP is on the wrong side ;D
what are you doing for boost enrichment? there doesnt seem to be an LDA on your IP, at least i can see it
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it's a standard moteur product bye vw
i have Jet of oilans the rod is mor "strong" that py engin from g40
1400 48ch 5 gear rv 23/1
it's a 8mm head ,she's turn on the left
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Very nice!
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ELMIA carshow 2011
First I would like to begin by thanking all involved for your efforts so far, many thanks.
The project is on the move again, and now i prepare to start the engine, an exciting event.
Elmia was a clean hit, huge interest from the more party of visitors.
80 000 visitors, plus the showcar exhibitures has seen, asked and wondered about the project more or less.
At least 1000pics was taken on the car.
Already on the first day reporters and photographers from the newspaper autosport was in place and asked questions and took pictures.
Since the car is not entirely clear where in our spec then we agree that the repotage will be written in June with a first contact by the end of May.
The idea on their part is a big repotage where they want to compare a polo G40 in, among others Superstage and possibly on the track.
They would then have the entire development team in place for repotage shall be accorded the Court considers that it has.
This project hit them by surprise in many ways, technology content, interior, engine the future widening and polish that they clearly said "Must" be made.
We have got a few new suggestions for companies who wish to participate with their knowledge about the car.
We have maxxtuning.se as first choice for setting the car when the IP pump "Dieselmeken" (George) is in the neighborhood.
Although Civinco want to be a part and I have discussed i.e a water injection with them and a lot of interest shown by them to participation.
The car is now ready for display in the Kinnekulle when Rally cross Championship final with a passuss whether to arrange this, 24sept is the date for this event.
Now we will prepare the car for the widening and paint and after that adjust everything to the best of my ability.
Google trans.....sorry
Here are some pictures from ELMIA!
(http://forumbilder.se/images/bf201162900AM7243.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/1e201162939AMa1c0.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/a1201163011AMd255.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/f3201163037AMc485.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/d0201163118AM4eb6.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/f5201163143AM4034.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/6a201163232AM15c1.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/23201163303AM261b.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/49201163328AM4b5f.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/72201163406AMf53f.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/be201163457AM3e47.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/ec201163604AM23b2.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/e7201163635AMb8b8.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/af201163707AMa48f.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/5c201163741AM9604.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/32201163825AM0efa.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/da201163854AMfa60.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
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neato neato. so you just keep an extra engine next to the car for good looks.
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Thanx
No, one of my sponsors wanted me to have this just in case something goes wrong with the modified engine. ;D
Thats why it hangs in the monter.
thomas
Sweden
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really an interesting car to see, we never got polos over here, and we never got the small block engines either, especially not the diesel. very very interesting.
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My pride!!
Just in case someone want to see the engine and gearbox etc.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/c0020111007171c00.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Full rework done.
Special pump, portmatched inlet, max ported head.
Ceramic couting pistons, ball peened piston rods, vw motorsport main bearing etc.
Fully reworked gearbox etc etc.
thomas
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i like how the intake manifold is the injection pump bracket too.. thats so cool.
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Hello!
Some new pics, subframedone etc.
Please comment.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/184201183219Aabad.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/334201183302A747d.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/b54201183345Ae983.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Rear seat
(http://forumbilder.se/images/424201183459A630c.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
thomas
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Hi all!
Today is a happy day.
Taken the car for a ride just now and i must say, jeeeesuuuus!!!!
It´s a f--ing beast!!
Earlier the car was more or less dead after 4000rpm but now its just going and going.
Pulling hard on every gear even the 5th.
Havent floored it yet, just hitting 1.6bar at the moment and i can say its fast as hell.
Max is around 2bar.
Egt temp max 700deg C.
Oil temp max 90deg C.
Water temp 110deg C which is a bit to high i think.
But the tourqe is amazing.
To day i put in 5th gear in appr 150km/H before just 120km/h.
G40´s , look out!!
Have a issue with the water temp rising to 110deg fast but i guess my radiator needs a good cleaning out.
Video coming up soon, if there is any intrest in a special Diesel.
thomas
Sweden
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Love it. I can't wait to see a video
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This update is something beyond the ordinary.
Now the pump is modified into a monster just for this engine.
You can read what is done and see a clip of the test run on the flow bench.
Many thanks to Göran "diesel mech" Lindgren.
************************************************** *****************************
OK, then it was time for the 2nd upgrade of the pump, Edition R
Do not miss the movie clip I have made for the sake of you readers, further down the topic.
The following was the first performance upgrade.
Replacing rotors 80-10 mm
Change the direction from right to left using wire EDM, among other things ;-)
Then the pump is delivering about 230% more fuel than stock, ended up on about 80 cc of fuel.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/f13201132956Pd8ac.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Edition R is reworked like this:
Modified RPM controller weights, it was not enough speed first round, now it will be sufficient.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/5d3201134203P92d9.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
LDA, cover with specially sharpened stick to get more fuel at full turbo boost pressure and eliminate smoke in large quantities, it will probably smoke a bit anyway, but not as bloody as before
(http://forumbilder.se/images/853201134252P07c4.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Regulator Spring, changed from a separate idle spring into an integrated spring-in controller package (VAG 2.4 d)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/8c3201134338Pe96d.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Modified controller bridge for longer travel of LDA = more fuel around 100cc @ 1500 rpm
Test run of the bench and shot.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/8c3201134533Ped66.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Movie Link here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXl8x9dOC9k
Happy Midsummers eve wishes Göran "diesel mech" Lindgren
************************************************** ******************************
Thomas
Sweden
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Göran seems to have lots of knowledge with fuelpumps, seen a few his builds over internet :) Do you have any plans to dyno your car?
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Hi.
Yes dyno is planed week 29 at maxxtuning.
then we will know what to do next.
Göran is probably the best in sweden.
Thomas
Sweden
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dyno should be interesting, can;t wait
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Hi.
Don´t know if someone is reading this but, any way.
The car is currently in cut open and started widening.
Without saying too much I can say that the car in one place is 17cm wider / side.
Pictures will come when the car is ready.
Right now, work is underway in full swing, and i would of course keep you a little on the rack.
The IP pump smoked "too much" without boost pressure and the rev´s a bit too low.
So what is Göran "dieselmech" has now done is to raise the rev´s to 6500-7000rpm.
Check out the link in previous message.
Now he has also "screwed" up the pump to 300%!!!!!! more fuel than stock.
started to hunt down a water methanol injectionsystem because I think we wil have an EGT that raises.
Becomes a bloody hecktic period around the start of week 29.
Everything should run smoothly until on Wednesday and test through as much as possible.
Because of the LDA, I will have to move the firewall approx 3cm back,rework the strut, etc.
A bit more work, but it we will get it sorted.
Thomas
Sweden
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Hi.
Don´t know if someone is reading this but, any way.
The car is currently in cut open and started widening.
Without saying too much I can say that the car in one place is 17cm wider / side.
Pictures will come when the car is ready.
Right now, work is underway in full swing, and i would of course keep you a little on the rack.
The IP pump smoked "too much" without boost pressure and the rev´s a bit too low.
So what is Göran "dieselmech" has now done is to raise the rev´s to 6500-7000rpm.
Check out the link in previous message.
Now he has also "screwed" up the pump to 300%!!!!!! more fuel than stock.
started to hunt down a water methanol injectionsystem because I think we wil have an EGT that raises.
Becomes a bloody hecktic period around the start of week 29.
Everything should run smoothly until on Wednesday and test through as much as possible.
Because of the LDA, I will have to move the firewall approx 3cm back,rework the strut, etc.
A bit more work, but it we will get it sorted.
Thomas
Sweden
how did he get 7000 RPMs out of a pump only capable of around 5800 rpms?
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Hi.
Don´t know if someone is reading this but, any way.
The car is currently in cut open and started widening.
Without saying too much I can say that the car in one place is 17cm wider / side.
Pictures will come when the car is ready.
Right now, work is underway in full swing, and i would of course keep you a little on the rack.
The IP pump smoked "too much" without boost pressure and the rev´s a bit too low.
So what is Göran "dieselmech" has now done is to raise the rev´s to 6500-7000rpm.
Check out the link in previous message.
Now he has also "screwed" up the pump to 300%!!!!!! more fuel than stock.
started to hunt down a water methanol injectionsystem because I think we wil have an EGT that raises.
Becomes a bloody hecktic period around the start of week 29.
Everything should run smoothly until on Wednesday and test through as much as possible.
Because of the LDA, I will have to move the firewall approx 3cm back,rework the strut, etc.
A bit more work, but it we will get it sorted.
Thomas
Sweden
how did he get 7000 RPMs out of a pump only capable of around 5800 rpms?
the same way you put 4th gear @ redline into 3rd.... only once ;D
also how did the motor run, as the motor rpm were outside the flame speed operational limits of diesel fuel?
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Hi.
Don´t know if someone is reading this but, any way.
The car is currently in cut open and started widening.
Without saying too much I can say that the car in one place is 17cm wider / side.
Pictures will come when the car is ready.
Right now, work is underway in full swing, and i would of course keep you a little on the rack.
The IP pump smoked "too much" without boost pressure and the rev´s a bit too low.
So what is Göran "dieselmech" has now done is to raise the rev´s to 6500-7000rpm.
Check out the link in previous message.
Now he has also "screwed" up the pump to 300%!!!!!! more fuel than stock.
started to hunt down a water methanol injectionsystem because I think we wil have an EGT that raises.
Becomes a bloody hecktic period around the start of week 29.
Everything should run smoothly until on Wednesday and test through as much as possible.
Because of the LDA, I will have to move the firewall approx 3cm back,rework the strut, etc.
A bit more work, but it we will get it sorted.
Thomas
Sweden
how did he get 7000 RPMs out of a pump only capable of around 5800 rpms?
the same way you put 4th gear @ redline into 3rd.... only once ;D
also how did the motor run, as the motor rpm were outside the flame speed operational limits of diesel fuel?
yea, 4th at redline then grabbing 3rd again, not fun.. i grabbed 2nd instead of 4th redlined in 3rd.. i know my engine spun atleast 7 grand that time.. thought it was going to spit the lifter shims..
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Hi.
I didn´t know the awnser to how so idid call him and he said that there diffrent weights in the new version.
i asked him if there was any proof for the rpm´s and he said that the wideo shows the pump in action,you have to double the revs on the pump showing on the sceer in the clip to get the rews on the engine.
He didnt remember exactly what he meesured but he said that it should be somewere around 6200 rpm.
Movie Link here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXl8x9dOC9k
(http://forumbilder.se/images/5d3201134203P92d9.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Modified regulatorweights.
Thomas
Sweden
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Hi.
I didn´t know the awnser to how so idid call him and he said that there diffrent weights in the new version.
i asked him if there was any proof for the rpm´s and he said that the wideo shows the pump in action,you have to double the revs on the pump showing on the sceer in the clip to get the rews on the engine.
He didnt remember exactly what he meesured but he said that it should be somewere around 6200 rpm.
Movie Link here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXl8x9dOC9k
Modified regulatorweights.
Thomas
Sweden
the pump *may* be able to spin to 6300-7000 rpms, but diesel fuel itself will not burn that fast.
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Hi.
I didn´t know the awnser to how so idid call him and he said that there diffrent weights in the new version.
i asked him if there was any proof for the rpm´s and he said that the wideo shows the pump in action,you have to double the revs on the pump showing on the sceer in the clip to get the rews on the engine.
He didnt remember exactly what he meesured but he said that it should be somewere around 6200 rpm.
Movie Link here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXl8x9dOC9k
Modified regulatorweights.
Thomas
Sweden
the pump *may* be able to spin to 6300-7000 rpms, but diesel fuel itself will not burn that fast.
6200 sounds a little more believeable.. because on this forum, its pretty much agreed upon that 6k rpms is about as much as anyone (even Master Giles) can get out of the VE pump..
someone bolt a Merc inline pump on one of these tho, and we might see 7+k..
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i remember malone saying he was revving to 6500 on his car from before he built the mk3 franken shiznit
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Hello!
Now I come back.
I've lived in the garage this weekend.
Worked constant from Saturday 08.00 until Sunday 19.00 without sleep, when we really needed to be done.
We have set up some odd ideas about this project.
One of these was to do a metal widening on a car in a weekend:)
And that, without having done it before.
Can say that it went well!
Plus that we grinded and adjusted all dents etc
My early ideas with urquaattro etc was thrown in the bin and scrapped because I had a couple of new thoughts and ideas.
Finally Me and Martin had a "new" way.
We take the hourglass broadening, racing, bergcup, DTM, and 90's design throw it down in the blender and what do you get?
see in this sequence:
(http://forumbilder.se/images/031201181201A7a4f.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Work in progress!!!
(http://forumbilder.se/images/1a1201182325Abc58.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Front wing with wheelarc extensions!
(http://forumbilder.se/images/fe1201182408A312f.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Blurred image, but an idea with wheelarc extensions.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/931201182914A2758.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Ready for transport, without wheelarc extensions.
I will add a pics rear wiew later ther you realy can se the total with over the "ass" :)
Thomas
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nice work looks great. what are the other cars i see a viggen and a 2 door volvo
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Hi
in the garage there is a couple of other cars.
volvo 242 it´s going to be a group A replica.
Behind the Saab viggen there is a volvo 850 stationvagon with 508Whp.
beside the the 242 it´s an audi s2 quattro tuned to 650 whp. fastest in the garage.
next to that its a nissan skyline.
another saab turbo and a volvo 745 transformed in to a pick up.
Probebly the most modified volvo in Sweden.
(http://www1.garaget.org/archive/39/38015/32644/32644-1834556.jpg) (http://www.garaget.org/?car=32644&image=1834556)
If u intrested, you can find more pics of the making of the pickup here:
http://www.garaget.org/?car=32644
Thomas
Sweden
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Soon this is reality!!!!
(http://forumbilder.se/images/c87201195541Af25f.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Please comment.
thomas
Sweden
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How much HP does the little 1.4 have anyway? I think the 1.6 stock was about 53 or so.
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Hi
in the garage there is a couple of other cars.
volvo 242 it´s going to be a group A replica.
Behind the Saab viggen there is a volvo 850 stationvagon with 508Whp.
beside the the 242 it´s an audi s2 quattro tuned to 650 whp. fastest in the garage.
next to that its a nissan skyline.
another saab turbo and a volvo 745 transformed in to a pick up.
Probebly the most modified volvo in Sweden.
(http://www1.garaget.org/archive/39/38015/32644/32644-1834556.jpg) (http://www.garaget.org/?car=32644&image=1834556)
If u intrested, you can find more pics of the making of the pickup here:
http://www.garaget.org/?car=32644
Thomas
Sweden
wow you guys are serious about fast cars haha what engine is in the 850 wagon?
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Now the car is assembled and the performance pump change started.
A very hard working period, I can promise, but now you can drive the car in the rain, This update has been hard,working around the clock more or less.
But just wanted to show how the car looks now.
Please enjoy !!!!!!
First car last summer.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/de201024950PMaad0.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/c99201160447P2e85.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/e89201155118P7a64.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/a59201155227Pc798.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
What do you think?
Will all the work be visible !? : thumbup:: D
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A small clip from dyno-day.
IC blown and exhaust pressure problems.
Max presure 2.6bar.
Not the best result, but a start, anyway here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAHUlf4e9ks
The real clip will be presented as soon as i get it.
thomas
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Some pics!!!!!
(http://forumbilder.se/images/5e2201112303971b2.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/00220111231107608.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/67220111231348ccd.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/4722011123221195c.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/9122011123245ee5d.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/b6220111233422999.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
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Max presure 2.6bar.
What turbo are you using? Must be miles away from efficient at that kind of PR....
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It´s a turbo from BMW 525 TDS.
And its way to inefficient, as you say.
Building counterpressure after 2.2bar.
Just ok to go up to 2.4, after that its just waste.
Thomas
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Hi
Need some info of wich turbo i can use instead of the Beemer one i have now.
Hopefully there is one with the same flange.
Sorry but i dont know the number on the turbo, but it is org mounted on bmw 525tds -1992.
Need one with faster spoolup and långer performance so to say.
Now it "dies" after 3600 rpm.
thomas
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looks like the mercedes benz 45 trim t3 wouldn't be too awful, with your smaller displacement you may want to swap for a smaller a/r exhaust housing. it looks like it could get you in the 150hp range
use 18:1 for a/f, .36 for bsfc, and some where between 75-80 for volumetric effeciencies.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
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Interesting site in the link!!! :)
How about watercooled IC.
Any hints about this?
I think i will seperate the waterkooling inbetween the head and block/bottom.
Adding an extra pump just for the head itself.
Do you guys think its nessesary to have 2 seperate rads in this setup.?
thomas
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yeah that site is awesome, saves you a lot of time, and its nice to just scroll through and see what might work. air to water intercoolers are supposed to be better right? And yes it is necessary to have 2 separate radiators with an air to water intercooler. or did u mean one rad for the head and one rad for the block?
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Need one with faster spoolup and långer performance so to say.
Three letters: V-N-T ;)
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I have an AWIC on Jezebel, works great. However you need a completely SEPARATE cooling system from the AWIC, it does not use engine coolant in any form. It has its own radiator, pump, reservoir, etc.
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looks like the mercedes benz 45 trim t3 wouldn't be too awful, with your smaller displacement you may want to swap for a smaller a/r exhaust housing. it looks like it could get you in the 150hp range
use 18:1 for a/f, .36 for bsfc, and some where between 75-80 for volumetric effeciencies.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
Everything I put in for our 1.6 was to the left of the surge line? Is that normal or how do you use that thing?
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looks like the mercedes benz 45 trim t3 wouldn't be too awful, with your smaller displacement you may want to swap for a smaller a/r exhaust housing. it looks like it could get you in the 150hp range
use 18:1 for a/f, .36 for bsfc, and some where between 75-80 for volumetric effeciencies.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
Everything I put in for our 1.6 was to the left of the surge line? Is that normal or how do you use that thing?
yeah thats the problem with the 1.6, no displacement, ***ty flowing head, and can't rev much over 5k, so most turbos surge with it. aaz and tdis have much better turbo choices due to the larger displacement, but most tdi people want to run little baby turbos, no wonder it took a decade for a tdi to break 200whp haha.
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Hi
A late update to this subject at night.
Today I will take down the front and begin to modify this so that I can fit an intercooler model "big" to this car.
Likewise, the radiator will be replaced with a larger and an extra waterpump must be added on.
Will take down the manifold and wrap this due to thermal radiation.
Then, the generator have a review and an additional tachometer output is taken out from the coils inside.
A lot of effort that will definitely have an effect.
The turbo is now in the hands of turboservice.se in the hunt for more effect and power, is up to them to find the solutions.
Perhaps these will come onboard as sponsors of this project aswell, which I would think is great when it obviously need a massive modification, we'll see.
What this will give, we shall see, but it is quite clear that it will get better.
What color is concerned, it is now leaning to a white pearl for those of you who are wondering.
thomas
Sweden
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I would just drop the TB2514 turbo all together. It will never spool up faster and at the same time support your power goals... :(
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Hi!
We might end up there as you say, if so we deffo will go some other direction.
But due to the weak gearbox i will need the effect to come quite high in the register.
So faster spoolup maybe the wrong way to go if you know what i mean.
thomas
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go for the faster spool up and run skinny tires to save the transmission haha
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why dont use a bb serie vf or the gt25v from croma tdid?
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why dont use a bb serie vf or the gt25v from croma tdid?
i am guessing these turbos would be too large
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Interesting site in the link!!! :)
How about watercooled IC.
Any hints about this?
I think i will seperate the waterkooling inbetween the head and block/bottom.
Adding an extra pump just for the head itself.
Do you guys think its nessesary to have 2 seperate rads in this setup.?
thomas
ok, correct me if im wrong, but you want 2 independant cooling systems on one engine? like the block have one cooling system, own pump, radiator, everything..
and the head have its own cooling system also?
why would you need to do such a thing? whats wrong with how the cooling system is set up now? it works fine, and takes up 1/4 the room of what it would take to make the engine have 2 independant cooling systems..
you would also have to come up with ports on the block to get the water in, and out. and a head gasket with no coolant passages in it..
as well as a second coolant pump, space for 2 radiators, 2 sets of lines, 2 of everything..
what system would you run the heater off of? the head, or block?
cool idea, i really DO LIKE IT.. but i think its a bit overkill for such a small engine in such a small car..
A2W intercooler is one thing, they arent bad at all. usually easier to fit in confined spaces than A2A intercoolers.. they have a small, thin heat exchanger to mount in front of the rad, and a coolant pump/reservoir to mount somewhere else.. you can even mount the pump and res inside the cabin to keep it that much cooler.
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yeah i would think it would cause more problems with the head being colder than the block or something.
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Switzer S1 or S100 is good turbo this kind engine.
mayby,S100 hyprid whit S1e intake wheel.... ;)
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Hi
Some new pics!!!!
(http://forumbilder.se/images/a62201110203414f2.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/63220111022502591.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/eb22011102408dcfa.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
Sweden
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Hi
Some new pics!!!!
(http://forumbilder.se/images/a62201110203414f2.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/63220111022502591.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/eb22011102408dcfa.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
Sweden
that intercooler is only for looks.. really should hook that thing up.. thats kinda ghetto its just sitting there..
the car is still amazing tho.. 8)
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hi.
Thanx for the comment.
Yes it needs to be hooked up, but i didnt have the time.
Working around the clock last week due to this autoshow on saturday.
The car was fully assembled at 3 in the morning saturday.
So i just did it driveble.
Will hook that thing up this week.
thomas
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Some new pics.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/8d201180613AM280b.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/9c201182121AM50e1.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Was thinking of using these, but i changed my mind...... ;)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/4c201182634AMf2bf.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
Sweden
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5 lug swap now too?
i dig the exhaust in the center like that..
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thanx!!!
nhaa, no i will not change to 5 bolts pattern for now.
Maybe in the future. ;)
Need to use 17inch aswell and i dont like the look on the car then.
17" are to big.
Thomas
Sweden
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thanx!!!
nhaa, no i will not change to 5 bolts pattern for now.
Maybe in the future. ;)
Need to use 17inch aswell and i dont like the look on the car then.
17" are to big.
Thomas
Sweden
yea, i agree 100%
big wheels on a tiny car does NOT look right..
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Hi
Now I have spoken to my new sponsor Swedish turbo service again who said that the turbo was ready for pic up.
They had apparently turned inside out of everything in this job.
They had spoken to pro´s in England and Germany to get more information about what's to be done and what would be good, whats fun to hear is that they had never heard anything like this during his years in the industry, either here in Sweden or abroad.
It´s fun that the car makes such interest from the most experienced people in the industry.
I must say I really like everyone´s engagement to get involved in the project.
The turbo is now in base an Schwitzer (Borg-Wagner) units, but we have retained the exhaust housing from the previous Garret aggrigatet becuase we wanted to see how much a special processing of this would bring.
Exhaust house has now been modified significantly.
The shaft has been replaced and the diameter of the turbine wheels changed, the turbine wheel has trimed wings on them for increased flow and power.
Happily it is now turbo good for 200 diesel horses and more ..... :)
See pictures below:
(http://forumbilder.se/images/c5201172246AMacc2.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/2f201172342AM6047.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/39201172417AM8c46.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/d8201172456AM4821.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/ff201172533AM5dc6.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/45201172607AM903d.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/31201172647AMae4e.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/51201172724AMeaa1.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/73201172801AM0767.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
You can see that it's right clever processed in the exhaust housing and the compressor side.
Today, i will get a new return piping from the turbo as we now have a different connection than before.
After that a tachometer goes in the car with a shift etc.
We'll see where I put this, there's not really much space in the cabin as you probably know already. :)
Thomas
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realy nice
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wow.... that turbo is TINY..
guess you need a TINY turbo for a TINY engine..
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yeah interesting turbo, can we get the specs of it? inducer and exducer sizes for turbine and compressor, and a/r for both as well?
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Hello again.
Now it has happened stuff i think you should know.
We have been on Kinnekulle raceway and with the help of a talented driver who now works as a driver instuctor within just racing i belive we couldent get a better tryout on the car.
Peter had fixed the ring completely to ourselves, which is an incredible feeling just that.
Think about it, we got at a race track all to ourselves ... ;D
Many thanks Peter.
Peter Lundrgen from Götene Motorclub has thus been the one driving the car.
The car behaves consistently and very well on a track according to Peter.
Peter went around the ring as the best at 1,10:52.
Which I think is good.
For reference, I can say that it is faster than orginalcup Volvo's cars run on the ring, and when they're built to run on racingtrac with weigth reductions and tuned chassis, etc.
We have a std car more or less, this is Very impressive in my eyes.
But something was wrong with the car, the effect did not occur so it could not bring better times.
This was on Friday and on Saturday, I talked with my filter provider.
Guess my suprise when he says that the filter attached to the car "just now" leave X liters of air / minute, it takes more than twice as much air .....
The filter povided was for a petrol instalation NOT Diesel.....WTF
This worked then as a restriction and we could only get maximum 1.2 bar then filter imploded
together and as they say put the lid on it.
The effect were about 80bhp measured by G-Tech on Saturday morning.
No wonder the car smoked, the car was so black in the ass so we had to wash the car before driving home.
Take it away, i will send the correct filter to you next week.
Said and done.
I did it and Holy *** ...............
Sure the car was good before but now it is a monster.
The effect is brutal.
It's just so that tires can keep the power down on third and fourth gear.
Turbo charger keeps going on with ease throughout the registry and the increase in speed is more or less linear.
No turbo dip at all under free acceleration.
I guess that the effect now is 160-180 hp.
This is now to be confirmed on the dyno again.
Temp problems are blown away both the exhaust and water and oil temp is laying still.
Will come back with a real report later.
With this effect, and a minor update to front so I can say that the car is probably running around the ring in under a minute. And it's fast
This is an incredible car.
Peter will write a report later this week about how he feels the car.
He is, however, independent and used to run cars on trac.
Thomas
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awesome, it is nice to see so much research and professional work put in to these old engines
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Waiting for new dyno sheet ;D
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Good to see an IDI beaten around a track without heat issues as this is my plan for the next season ;D
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nice news
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yeah interesting turbo, can we get the specs of it? inducer and exducer sizes for turbine and compressor, and a/r for both as well?
+1
it's a borg and warner bb?
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Good to see an IDI beaten around a track without heat issues as this is my plan for the next season ;D
its a 1.4L TDI....
what IDI are you talking about?
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Good to see an IDI beaten around a track without heat issues as this is my plan for the next season ;D
its a 1.4L TDI....
what IDI are you talking about?
It's an IDI. Put your reading glasses on and start from page 1 of this thread. See picture of the head, does the prechambers ring a bell? ;)
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Good to see an IDI beaten around a track without heat issues as this is my plan for the next season ;D
its a 1.4L TDI....
what IDI are you talking about?
It's an IDI. Put your reading glasses on and start from page 1 of this thread. See picture of the head, does the prechambers ring a bell? ;)
SOB...
i thought it was a TDI for some reason..
your right, its an IDI..
sorry for the confusion..
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yeah interesting turbo, can we get the specs of it? inducer and exducer sizes for turbine and compressor, and a/r for both as well?
+1
it's a borg and warner bb?
we need answers haha
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Hi there!
I will get you guys the spec´s later on.
Its a Bw body and a switzer compressor house and a bmw tds exhausthouse.
Here is some new pics though.
Some of them from kinnekulle raceway.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/9e9201172030A29a2.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/a39201172102Aa18f.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/4b9201172130A8962.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/e19201172155A2529.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/a09201172345A53f0.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/b99201172444A948e.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/e39201172532Aa8ac.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/ee9201172644A92ab.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/3f9201172709A40e0.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/709201172753Afb1b.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
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Great looking car!
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Pirelli P-Slots on the trailer house!!!
thats F###ING awesome!!!!!
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Hi.
today we were up on the dyno again.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/2342011105932a88b.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Only ~2.7bar boost pressure.
and i know it holds for up to 2.9 bar boost.
That would have give us approx 174bhp.
So the 250% power increase project have reached its goal. :)
Thomas
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Isn't 162hp estimated from 137whp a bit optimistic on a FWD?
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Hi
That might be so, but then again this dyno is wellknown for delivering very precise figures.
In this case we have a some around 14% loss.
But even if you take this down to 10% you still have a very good situation.
Thomas
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hi!
A new picture!!
(http://forumbilder.se/images/8812011104632d650.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
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hi there!
Some new videos.
http://www.garaget.org/video/111306
http://www.garaget.org/video/111304
thomas
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A new pic from the day on the racetrack.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/bf3201111081239ad.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
another pic.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/e032011111007545d.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
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Cool 8) Got any performance numbers? Like 80-120kmh or 60-120kmh acceleration?
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hi.
Just this little one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmrbH7qFVg0
Floor the pedal around 60km/h but gets of it due to a waterleakage in the radiator.
The turbopressure keeps around 2.6bar, but i can gå up to 2.9bar and then it realy takes off.
Thomas
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that TINY SINGLE TURBO makes ~40 psi?!?!?! :o :o :o
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Hi
Interesting isent it? ;)
Videos from the first day on the dyno.
http://www.garaget.org/?car=152336&videos
Thomas
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Hey if anyone is reading.
I now have an outside report regarding the car from Peter Lundgren.
Peter has many years experience in racing and today is the driving instructor in racing gave us the chance to get a test drive and evaluation of the car.
Here's his little story about his part of the story Polo 250% project.
************************************************** *********************************
Last winter rang a Thomas Knutsson to me and told me he was working on a project. Building on a VW Polo D Kombi to something more advanced than the original. And it was urgent because the car is visible on the car show in Elmia at Easter. He is neither the first nor last to have ideas about building a car, but I listened to what he had to say. He had some issues that we talked about. He called several times and we talked some more. And over time i began to understand that he really was doing something. So at one point he asked also if I could think of to test drive the car. If I had the time I could think of doing this. And here I sit now with a new experience.
I had arranged a date at Kinnekulle raceway for testing.
A little late Thomas came to an end. We got started just after lunch.
I ran some laps with Thomas as a passenger. The perception I had was that it felt very insecure. How much should you dare to push this car?
But, out with Thomas, and add about 10 laps. The feeling that the car was unbalanced remained, especially the rear end that was not as it should.
We discussed it and I also got the information that the car is not built as a race car. We adjusted the tire pressure as the only option. Drove another 10 laps. Checked the temp, tested braking, throttle and so on. I started to get me some more feeling of the car behavior. The feeling of understeering was there all the time. Prior to Run No. 3, I felt that it is time to push the car, see what it can do. But with understeer in the head, regular street tires on, a gearbox that does not want to rough handeling I still had to take it a bit "careful". Tested to hit the throttle earlier in curves, correcting understeer and now it started to go much better. I also began to get warm in “my clothes”, better temperature in the tires and the lap times fell,
Now that i knew where i had the car I could begin run it in a different way. Begin to reflect on what I'm driving. And little by little, I got the feeling that the car can "become something".
What I think of as the main action's to be taken is due to the handling. It is being understerred, but still feels very stable. But with other struts and so on. this should not be a problem. The next thing to work with the engine power. It is smooth o fine but with a little high exhaust temp at the end of the straight. Output Register is far too short. It came nicely at 4500-5500 revolutions but nothing more.
Later it turned out that it sat quite wrong air filter in your car, which explain a lot.
So overall, having been told the whole story of this project, I think you managed to build a surprisingly good car. Thomas is enthusiastic and energetic with his project, and it is also what it takes things like this. There is every opportunity to get this car to a potent and competitive race car in the appropriate regulations, if you like. It is interesting to follow the development of this project and it has definitely given a taste to participate and test the car while it develops.
Peter Lundgren - Test Pilot
************************************************** ******************************
Must say it feels quite strange to read this for me.
We have built a car, we have done something extraordinary that you know who have read the thread.
When I talked to Peter about how we wanted to do so where he's quite "off" at first.
When one is so up in the project are easily biased and do not always see the reality.
We must be open to others' experiences, etc. Therefore, I stood on me.
But the car was ready and tested.
Had time been available before the test drive on Kinnekulle I had found the error but unfortunately it became as it were.
Motor supplied only 80bhp most and then in a register at 1000rpm´s.
Despite this, he run the car.
Now that the engine performs 160bhp such an assessment is made to the car to get around the Ring of around 1min.
It is very good. It was so good thanks to the sponsors' contribution.
But ...
Now we have built this car ready for road use with std articles regarding handling, etc.
Soon we are taking the step towards this and start with "Step 2".
Now we will optimize it for the track and racing.
Now there is no requirement for std stuff anymore, but now we take a deeper step into the world of racing.
Then it's gold with Peter's experience.
Watch this space for thoughts on this.
How good can a polo diesel from 1993 realy be???
There is great potential as Peter writes to get to a really good car.
Thomas
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New videoclip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF1WgCkAOtI
One more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtiv8o6yzS4
Thomas
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(http://forumbilder.se/images/a89201110352604dc.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/f5920111042082959.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
thomas
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new pic.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/a17201214940P1a55.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
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still looks like the intercooler is just sitting there un hooked..
once you go to hook that thing up, i hope you clean it out..
sweet car tho!
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im sorry but your vision fail you, the ic is connected and working ok.
Thomas
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time for wider wheels?
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hi.
yes at the rear at least.
Not so easy to find wheels/rims with an ET below 20 though.
But i´m looking out for it.
Thomas
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check ebay.de, there as plenty some times.
or go widened steelies,i have those in my passat,no problems on changing ET´s there
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I´ts been a while sins the last update but better late then never ... :)
Now, the chassi update has begun.
first we dissmounted all at the rear, beam wishbone etc.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/242720121129279be9.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Empty...
(http://forumbilder.se/images/66272012113055f1dd.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/fa272012113301aa2f.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
It´s always more work..
(http://forumbilder.se/images/ff2720121134164174.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
On this pic, you can see two other taction arms that we was thingking of using but no, we will make a new set with unibolts... :)
time to start up the lathe, had to produce this..
(http://forumbilder.se/images/6b27201211355865b4.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Can anyone see what this is?
(http://forumbilder.se/images/fa2720121137199718.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
When we found the rigth pivot point for the rear beam, I could start with the front end.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/6f272012113934ae1c.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Then to the fun parts. :)Rear beam modification.
We will build a trailingarm setup.
Man in action....:)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/4e272012122637e867.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/fa27201211422186d1.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
One done .
Did make a new set of shorter steering arms.
These will give us quicker steering respons.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/7d2720121146195e1c.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
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i don't understand quite what you are doing but i expect to see nothing but quality like the rest of the build
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looks like he cut up an old torsion beam, and converted it into IRS?
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Swaybar as a strut rod, similar to the superbeetles. I know nothing about the polo but keep up the good work!!
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would it be needed?
does berg cup mk1 have oem rear bem?
i know that my g60 mk2 handles pretty good,no irs is needed for me...
polo_td:
i have strated a topic about pump mods after seeing what was done in your pump,can you take a look and help to clarify some things?
thanks and keep up the good work!
greetings from portugal!
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Hi.
Its the center line pivot point bracket for the rear beam.
IRS on a Polo 86c is far beyond the normal mods.
The front and rear beam are now done and mounted
Fully adjustable in front and rear.
Today we will start with the front hub angle.We want the wheel to dive in more when we turn the steering wheel.
The berg cup cars have no irs thats for sure.
But i want to have control over the toe-travel, have the possibilities to adjust camber ,caster and toe.
So far the setup has changed the wheelbase with ~50mm in length and the track width by 60mm.
Caster in front 3deg. so we will see what we end up with but it will definite mean that we have a better situation then before.
pics coming up.
stay tuned.... :)
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Congratulations for the great job that fact.
I'm shocked at what has accomplished, and spend more than 2bar of pressure without breaking engine is impressive.
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Thank you for the comments.
The engine is fantastic as it is just now.
But i will add water / meth injection towards the sommer.
now back to the update of the build so far.
Now comes the pictures.
After a whole lot of work during the Christmas and New Year eve, now the car is down on its own wheels again.
First a picture of the modified section of the section toward the torpedowall to handle the increased load.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/c92013113912A13cb.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Then comes a picture of the rear axle mount in the middle.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/ae2013114010A5a77.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Wishbones have been modified.
The spring plate is moved up 20mm, a stabilizer bracket is welded and steering arm has a new position. The angle of the hub modified to provide more angle in the hub that little sloppy expressed as more camber angle and better precipitation of the wheel when steering.
(http://forumbilder.se/images/27201310007PM8b18.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/202013125536Pf70a.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Finally a picture of what the front end looks now :)
(http://forumbilder.se/images/252013114105A61aa.jpg) (http://forumbilder.se)
Thomas
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Is there any news about this project?
Also does anyone know did he lower the compression?