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General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: 8v-of-fury on January 13, 2012, 11:06:24 pm
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Anyone use one of these on a 90mm 020 transmission?
I was looking at getting a kit, and using it on an 84 4A 4 speed. No more 1-tyre-fryer. :)
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for some reason, i dont think you are supposed to use them with 90mm drive flanges.. i think the axles hit the bolt heads..
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I read that they are recommended for the 100mm, but it says to call for information.. So i guess i'll call them in the morning.
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I put them in on my 100mm and the axles still hit the bolt. I think the kit was intended for those who stick to VW CV shafts, as the rebuilt ones I got from advanced auto were about 1/4" longer than stock ones past the clip. I just took a grinder to mine and shaved it down almost to that clip...That is what the guy told me to do if I was going to try to use the 90mm when I called. I thought I would have been safe since I used the 100mm but I wasn't. IIRC the driver side is the only one to worry about as the passenger will just tighten if it rubs.
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Anyone use one of these on a 90mm 020 transmission?
I was looking at getting a kit, and using it on an 84 4A 4 speed. No more 1-tyre-fryer. :)
Just curious when people buy this stuff: exactly what do you think 80% means? 80% of what???
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80% should be better than the stock 20% I think is what it means. If my math is accurate should be right around 4x better. The diff used to have a rattle in the early trans so the factory put a preload kit in it to stop that. The bonus result was that both tires had better traction than before, or it was a touch harder to get one wheel peel ... whatever way you want to view it. If you go to brokevw's site he did a test with a torque wrench with the various bushings installed and posted his results.
For those not familiar with his site. http://www.brokevw.com/difftest.html
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If you were driving on glare ice with bare tires, the diff might give you some advantage from increased traction, but the amount of torque it takes to break a wheel loose is HUGE - at least 500 lb/ft on a MkI drive wheel on pavement with street rubber. 140 lb/ft MIGHT work in a straight line, but not exiting a turn. Would also give enough feedback torque to make a Peloquin Torsen diff work when unloaded - maybe?????
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I have driven Early and Late mk1 trannies both on stock na diesels.. The pre-81 trans have no preload (4-5ft.lbs) and the one tire takes all the power.. currently still on this trans. If there is even sand on the road its one tire fryer.
The later trans 84 and up have the 20% stock setup, and they are already loads better than the early trans. a 40% kit would be leaps over that, and 80 again.
The say the 80 takes nearly 150 ft.lbs, which is more than most Volkswagen's make. I see no reason why it would not hold in a turn? Unless your car makes more than 150ft.lbs the nit should be good to go no?
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The say the 80 takes nearly 150 ft.lbs, which is more than most Volkswagen's make. I see no reason why it would not hold in a turn? Unless your car makes more than 150ft.lbs the nit should be good to go no?
Uh.....MkII diesel is 3.92 final drive X 3.45 first gear makes that 100 lb/ft at the crank delivers 1,350 lb/ft at the diff/driveshaft.
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Well a corner in first gear on any car will be able to break that inner tire loose.. I was not thinking you meant from a dead stop..
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That was on a test bench...in the real world the tires are both moving with the car in the same direction. I personally have the 80% kit installed in my car and after a year it was still working. All of the rabbits I had at the farm would spin the passenger tire coming up the drive and especially into the barn. The jetta that had probably triple the power of the rabbits I had would spin both tires in the exact same drive. Is that 100% scientific, no, as there are many variables. The point is it does work and actually quite well for me. I am sure others have had similar experiences. Mine was so good of an experience that I will put the 80% kit into every trans I take the flanges off of...if I have the $$$ to do it at that time. which if I am taking the trans out I probably do have the coin.
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That was on a test bench...in the real world the tires are both moving with the car in the same direction. I personally have the 80% kit installed in my car and after a year it was still working. All of the rabbits I had at the farm would spin the passenger tire coming up the drive and especially into the barn. The jetta that had probably triple the power of the rabbits I had would spin both tires in the exact same drive. Is that 100% scientific, no, as there are many variables. The point is it does work and actually quite well for me. I am sure others have had similar experiences. Mine was so good of an experience that I will put the 80% kit into every trans I take the flanges off of...if I have the $$$ to do it at that time. which if I am taking the trans out I probably do have the coin.
i thought they quit making the mini slip kits tho?
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http://www.peloquins.com/products_80.html
That one? The 80% kit is still available. The diff kit is available as well.
http://www.peloquins.com/products_020.html
If I would have realized that it came with the diff bearings AND the ARP bolt kit I would have one in my trans as well.
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Looks like with the 40% kit its just a washer with a flange seal kit and new tapered sleeve.
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Looks like with the 40% kit its just a washer with a flange seal kit and new tapered sleeve.
just went to the parts store bought some 1 1/8th inch id washers fit pefectly onto the drive spline installed cup washer, flange spring, flange and concave washer finally the circleclip. a 1 dollar 40% kit. now granted what peloquins is selling is still a good deal. because if youve never replaced your flange seals you get the tool new seals circleclips etc.
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Not too shabby. How does it feel? Do any field testing?
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Not too shabby. How does it feel? Do any field testing?
not yet hopefully next weekish the car will be on the road i will report back my findings. Biggest reason im interested in this is for snow driving i hear it can help quite a bit.
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Yes me as well. I have a bit of torque to the wheels with the AHU.. so I need more traction too! LOL
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Haven't installed trans into car yet to road test but on the bench it feels like it takes more force to spin the flanges in opposite directions....
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I have an extra 2Y - close ratio 020 trans with 100mm flanges - whats saying I cannot remove those and put onto a late FF 90mm flanged 020 tranny along with the 80% kit before I couple up to 1.6TD going into Caddy?
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Doable. Year dependent on the FF though I think.
http://brokevw.com/flanges.html
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thanks 8VofFurry - thats what I need to figure out!
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Gary is sending me the bolts and sealing caps for 25 bucks plus shipping so i save my self about 60 bucks.
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Acording to Brian the reason the CV axle shaft still hits is because the 100mm flanges are taller than 90mm flanges and so that is advantage of staying with 90mm verses 100 - he said kits work fine with 90mms just have to grind a bit off edge of side bolts that sticks over end and grind end of CV axle down a bit since the shims add a bit more total material - makeing cleance between former ouput flange and end of CV axle less
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It seems an easy job for sure, but I have lifetime $$$ axles in there right now.. and I doubt they'd cover them for whatever reason down the road if there is material physically missing from it.. ;) LOL
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They do ;D. I have the lifetime warranty ones as well and eventhough I swapped 100mm flanges the ones I got I do not believe were OEM VW cores. The shaft from the snap ring toward the flange was too long and on the driver side unscrewed on me and the inner joint ate the bolt. I got another and ground it down real thin, when the boot went bad they took it with no questions asked. I did do a good job grinding it so that it didn't look like a beaver went to town on it, it looked nice and flat and with tons of CV grease I am sure no one even blinked an eye.
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Beaveerrsss. HHaha. Yeah well i may just pull em and get this 80% kit.. Gonna need it for the snow in a month and a bit lol!!
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so essentially if 90mm are used its 100 percent needed to grind down the axle shaft? lowered or not..
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no - as I understand it grinding for 90mms verses what is needed on 100mm set up is on totally different parts
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No again, I spoke with the guy that builds the 80% kit. He said grind if 90mm. They are ok if 100mm, stock height....BUT he was wrong. Mine is stock, not lowered at all and I went to the 100mm and the inner bolt with the 80% kit unthreaded and the CV ate it. I compared the stubs of a 90mm and the 100mm that I had and saw that the 100mm was a lot longer and that is why it did it. So I ground the new one and didn't have an issue since.
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Whats saying that since the 100mm shafts are a bit shorter - how much I know not but the concept is this - that one could put 90mm joints on 100mm shafts to come up with enough clearance to install an 80% shim kit thereon and use with 90mm flanges - so actually maybe the 90mm flanges with 80% shim kits would work best if hooked onto 100mm CV shafts with 90mm joints installed thereon??? Does anyone know the difference in length between the 90 and 100mm CV axle shafts???
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Is there any reason why you absolutely need 100mm flanges? If you grind the 90's down seem they will work according to Gary Peloquins the guy who makes them. Even less of an issue if your car isn't lowered. Now it seems The man had some issues but were mitigated by grinding.
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So what you are suggesting is that one can use the 80% Peloquin shim kit on the 90mm trannys and shafts just by grinding end of CV axle to creat enough clearance? Has anyone actually done this with no concequences? I had understood that only to use the 40% shim kit on the 90mms because of shorter clearences but if grinding the end of CV axle with resolve that problem then that is the way to go - has anyone acctually done this and put running time on said vehicle?
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I'm about to to do it and run it as peloquins said this is what guys with lowered cars and 90mm axles were doing when they were having trouble. He said he has not heard back from anyone running a stock height car having problems when they didn't grind them. I think it also depends on the brand of axles your running seems some are slighly longer than others. I'm gonna run an 80% kit on my car 90mm flanges asf transmission stock height mk2 jetta.
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I talked to the guy. He said if you want to run 90mm you have to grind. I am saying I installed 100mm and didn't grind and had issues. I don't know about anyone else, but I actually have these installed on the trans I run. I would grind for peace of mind no matter what CV you run. But yes, the guy that makes them has said as long as you run stock and not lowered it is supposed to work with the 90mm if ground. Clear enough?
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Mine is a choice of two trans 90mm or 100mm flanged ACN tran with 80% shim kit going into Mk1 with stock heigth - if it works for Mk2 it should also work for Mk1 - I would think! If the 80% kit will work with the ground 90mm set up - I would venture to say that would be prefered way to go
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The guy told me it would, but he also said I wouldn't have to grind going to 100mm flanges as well....so YRMV
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thanks Bob203 and Theman for input - let me know - OK so great - my question is does anyone know of anyone that has used the 80% Peloquin shim kit on 90mm Mk1 axles with no problems after having ground down the CV axles stub ends? Mine is going into a Mk1 Pickup and I communicated with Brian at BrokeVW - he said that all he knew is that the 80% shim kits will at least work with the 100mm axles but not for sure on the 90s??? If grinding down ends on 90s solves Mk2 - ACN flanges from being hit and or torqued by Mk1 shafts then that is what I will use - Mk1 90mm CV axles hooking up to Mk2 ACN trans - other wise will need to go for the 100s - thanks for input!
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post a picture of how far out the axle sticks out beyond the clip on your axles.
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http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5263650-Peloquin-02O-40-80-shim-kit-install-DIY&highlight=peloquins
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I ground the bolts down so they are not quite flush with the cap but still have good bite with the allen wrench. How much di you grind em down The man??
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Pretty much until I started to worry if I could ever get them out.
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and did you grind the CV axles down to about 1/8" away from C clip? and now you are home free with 100mm axles - correct? BTW what tranny do you have in there?
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one thing I did was changed the pitch on the bolt head so I didn't have to to grind as much off top so as to avoid having that problem and get the same result. I think I'm gonna grind em down totally flush with the cap. haven't gotten to the cvs yet. running an asf.
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stock height with 90mm flanges and oem vw axles.
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Good idea - was thinking the same - so did you countersink the retaining washer more or the diferencial axles or both - and does anyone know how much side to side (in and out slack - back and forth ) play is needed on CV axle ? I could have check on my stock ones but they are out already - I would guess about 1/2 inch - that way one could check before they test drive with modified axles and shim kit - one could take visegrips and clamp on to help in moving and measuring differences.
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I change the pitch on the bolt head to countersink it more.
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if you are not a machinist bbob203 then how?
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Taking down the OD of the flat head
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a bench grinder setup by a former detroit machinist with diamond file a good eye and a some time.
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I essentially made the head smaller from all directions.
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I essentially made the head smaller from all directions.
almost like you reduced the OD of the flat head.
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I essentially made the head smaller from all directions.
almost like you reduced the OD of the flat head.
yep pretty much. I got one totally flush with the cap that one will go on the drivers side. the other isn't flash but I've reduced its stack height significatly and the od of the head. I've ground about a millimeter off the driver side axle.
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Caps and bolts are in when i was torquing the bolt i visibly saw the flange move 1/8th-1/4in towards the case on both sides.
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Very nice, bbob were you the one to buy the stuff from a hardware store to make your own? I cannot recall from the thread.
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Yes bbob did washer option from hardware store
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=31997.msg293515#msg293515
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Very nice, bbob were you the one to buy the stuff from a hardware store to make your own? I cannot recall from the thread.
well sort of... what I did was bought the inner washers from hardware store (40% kit) and the caps and flange bolts from peloquins. I ground the heads of the bolts supplied by peloquins down to fit better into the countersinks of the caps from peloquins.
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bbob203 - I just wanted to check to see if you had any first hand results from your shim kit implimention
thanks for your time!
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bbob203 - I just wanted to check to see if you had any first hand results from your shim kit implimention
thanks for your time!
the car is like 5 bolts away from driving ill report back tomorrow after noon.
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Yes I too, am extremely interested on this matter. Good luck!
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I 3 am interested to see how this worked.
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Well a lot of factors come into play. Overall it feels like Im getting more power to the road. I can accelerate in and out of turns better. I also swapped in a manual steering rack so that might be coming into play as well. Id say success. This is a bone stock eco diesel with an ASF trans and a .71 fifth gear. Im very pleased with all the work i put into. I have a new clutch set so i didn't want to beat on it to hard yet. ;D
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Can you summarize the Peloquin work for us in a short writeup. Beats having to pour through the thread.
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maybe not - not something one may want to write home about - seat of the pants work - which is ok but may not be recomendable for everyone - at your own risk type of thing - got to live and learn and dig or pour through
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1. Purchased two 1 1/8" inner dia. flat washers.
2. Purchased bolts and sealing washers from peloquins. $25 plus shipping
3. I ground down the bolt heads on both bolts i reduced them by half on all dimensions on the head. I used a really nice grinding wheel at work got them down pretty smooth. I made them so the recessed on the sealing caps where as when new out of box they protruded from the top of the sealing cap by over 1/8" or more.
4. I installed the drive flanges(90mm).
-brass taper rings
-1 1/8" washer
-cup washer
-drive flange and spring
-circle clip NOTE: Dont install the concave washer per peloquins it isn't need and will cause the sealing cap to not work properly
-clean out thread in the drive axle with q tips and brake cleaner let dry.
5. Install sealing cap be sure to get the seal wet with oil before installing.
6. Torque down the cap bolts to 33 ft lbs when doing this you will see the drive flange move at least a 1/4" towards the trans case.
7. Grind off at your cv end on the drive flange end until its about a mm past the circle clip.
This is just about everything i can remember i did and so far so good..
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I have an inquiry about #7.
The end of the axle that is bolted to the transmission? You ground down your axle shaft until it was 1mm past the circlip? Just getting stuff fully visible in my mind.
So what you did was effectively make your own 80% kit? or 40% kit? Every time I read the vortex write-up I get a bit more confused as to the parts involved for either.. So it must be a slightly confusing post, because that does not usually happen to me. LOL
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the washers he purchased at the hardware store turns the 40 into an 80% home made kit and the 1mm past C clip is measured from the CV joint not transmission end so there is at least 1mm inch axle material showing past C clip on axle end
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just thick washers = 40%. washers plus sealing cap minus concave washers = 80%.