VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: rmcard on October 22, 2012, 09:12:48 pm
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Came across a 1999 Jetta with a 1.9 Turbo Diesel and 5 speed, says it's a VIN H. I want to put a mechanical IDI style in my 1980 Caddy I'm working on if one for the right price comes along. Too new to all this to really know what to look for. Don't want to buy it if it's a later TDI style. I'll stick with the 1991 NA 1.6 I already have if I don't find an IDI.
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vin h tells me nothing.... 99 you got a few choices...
up to 99.5 golf/jetta with ahu tdi... new bug +99.5 up has alh tdi..
why not go to tdi? ? get a rover pump or have a "m" pump built so it simple like idi.. but effecent like tdi.. i have a rover pumped tdi-m... no glow plugs needed till sub 20*f.. fastest diesel ive ever owned.. would easily hang with stock vr6.. one day ill play with fueling and bigger turbo to fix that.. just to piss them off.. and scare modded vr6...
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Where are you?
No 1.9 IDI cars were ever sold in the United States, but they were sold in Canada.
The TDIs are all going to be electronically controlled, but as mentioned building a mechanically injected TDI or "m-tdi" is a possibility, and there are various routes for going about doing this. I would do this if I were shopping for an engine. My opinion is that the TDI, that one in particular (AHU) is a better engine than the 1.6. When VW introduced the TDI, they had 20 years to improve upon the design of the IDI engine and its apparent issues.
IDI, by the way, refers to indirect injection and describes the way fuel is injected into the cylinder head by first passing through a "pre-chamber." Direct injection is just that, no pre-chamber, which requires a more advanced injector design to spray the fuel in a certain geometry. These are not VW specfic terms and apply to diesels in general, and it doesn't have anything to do with the injection pump itself, just the injectors. An engine can be mechanically controlled and directly injected.
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Welllll, I put a downpayment on a sight unseen 1996 Jetta Turbodiesel that has a motor with a broken crank. Won't know if the engine is savable until I pick it up this weekend but if not at least I'll be part way there by getting a turbo 5 speed trans and what other parts might be salvageable. Only paying $700 so it's not too big of a gamble ($550 plus title, taxes and transfer - it's from a used car dealer that just wants the hulk off his lot).
Granted with my tiny bit of knowledge me shooting from the hip in buying this I might get bit in the butt but I'm hoping getting a 1.9 Turbo fom a mk3 I'm hoping to have an easier time installing it all in my 1980 Rabbit pickup. If it does turn out to use an electronic control unit to run I'll be looking into your suggestions for using a different or modified inection pump.
As far as having a broken crank the last engine I saw that had one was caused by having it's oil pickup tube drop into the oil pan and was starved for oil. I was told that this engine had either a new or rebuilt turbocharger installed on it before it was to be put on the dealer lot and if there is oil lines going to it for cooling the repair may be the source of trouble and the engine might not be the only thing that was trashed.
Time (and disassembly) will tell.
I've attached pics sent to me from the dealer. Oh, by the way this 96 is only an hour and a half away where the 99 was the engine only and was located near Toranto, Canada (I live in the western Detroit metro area)
My best scenerio will be next asking if anyone has an extra crank laying around that they're willing to part with.
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Welllll, I put a downpayment on a sight unseen 1996 Jetta Turbodiesel that has a motor with a broken crank. Won't know if the engine is savable until I pick it up this weekend but if not at least I'll be part way there by getting a turbo 5 speed trans and what other parts might be salvageable. Only paying $700 so it's not too big of a gamble ($550 plus title, taxes and transfer - it's from a used car dealer that just wants the hulk off his lot).
Granted with my tiny bit of knowledge me shooting from the hip in buying this I might get bit in the butt but I'm hoping getting a 1.9 Turbo fom a mk3 I'm hoping to have an easier time installing it all in my 1980 Rabbit pickup. If it does turn out to use an electronic control unit to run I'll be looking into your suggestions for using a different or modified inection pump.
As far as having a broken crank the last engine I saw that had one was caused by having it's oil pickup tube drop into the oil pan and was starved for oil. I was told that this engine had either a new or rebuilt turbocharger installed on it before it was to be put on the dealer lot and if there is oil lines going to it for cooling the repair may be the source of trouble and the engine might not be the only thing that was trashed.
Time (and disassembly) will tell.
I've attached pics sent to me from the dealer. Oh, by the way this 96 is only an hour and a half away where the 99 was the engine only and was located near Toranto, Canada (I live in the western Detroit metro area)
My best scenerio will be next asking if anyone has an extra crank laying around that they're willing to part with.
thats a canadian jetta..
it DOES NOT have a broken crank..
it has crank sprocket wobble..
you fix it by broaching the crank, and installing a TDI crank sprocket..
THE CRANK IS MORE THAN LIKELY FINE..
the head probably has a bunch of bent valves tho, and the timing belt might even be broken..
its a common problem on these 1.9IDI engines, the crank sprocket wobbling, and finally, taking out the engine..
at a bar minimum, i would say you need to broach the crank, install the TDI sprocket, and pull the head to check the valves.. if they contacted the pistons AT ALL, i would replace ALL OF THEM, otherwise you could pull the head and find something like this:
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww28/Dubsmoke/P1000421.jpg)
so, its not a broken crank, its just as bad tho, if you ask me..
if it dropped a valve, it could have bent rods, cracked pistons, broken engine block, and other things as well..
i wish you the best of luck..
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Yeah, I would 2nd the notion that it isn't a broken crank. I am sure someone out there has a broken one, but the rest of the engine, and probably everything attached to it is broken too. Now a crank out of spec, different story, but clear broken I cannot see happening.
Good luck. I have 3 aaz crankshafts, 2 in engines and one out just in the rare case you needed one I may sell it.
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It'll certainly be great if the engine can be saved, but now that I understand a little more about TDI's AND that they can be made mechanical that may have been the better choice.
Decoding this vehicles VIN I see that the 1996 Jetta was only rated in the low to mid 30's for mpg. I did see something pop up tho' somewhere that rated the motor as being around 100hp which will be nice. I would imagine a TDI would by default have more power AND be more economical. Someone did tell me that these 1.9's can have their injection pumps tuned to put out close to 140 hp without losing any economy but I don't know if he was talking about 1.9 IDI's or 1.9 TDI's.
I plan on giving the Caddy a couple extra inches of ground clearance so I can run taller tires (175/70 R14's that I have), between that, the trucks light weight and driving it gentle most of the time I was hoping to get somewhere in the mid to high 40's for mpg.
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oh, forgot to ask one question... can any old engine machine shop usually do the broaching you refer to or do I need to find a specialty (and expensive) shop that specializes in these engines?
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oh, forgot to ask one question... can any old engine machine shop usually do the broaching you refer to or do I need to find a specialty (and expensive) shop that specializes in these engines?
i would atleast find a shop that knows what they are doing...
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Any shop can do the broaching. You can buy the tools to do it yourself even. However, the D shaped nose that you would be upgrading to is not flawless. A lot of the TDI guys are actually pinning their crank noses because the D shape started to fail. I recently was working on one that was starting to slip.
You'll be able to hit mid 40s with that engine in a caddy, probably without trying. Yes a TDI would get about 10% better fuel mileage but it's more money up front to get going.
Pull the valve cover and rotate the engine by hand to see if any lifters are stuck in their bores, or if the cam is snapped. Depending on when the crank nose let go (assuming it did) the damage can range from minor to pretty extreme.
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I figure if the engine is too far gone I at least have a usable trans, and shouldn't the trans work just as well for a TDI? There shouldn't really be any difference trans wise between the two types of engine.
And as far as horsepower, 100hp (+ some change, I think it was 102 or 103 hp actually) sound right for a 1996 IDI engine?
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And as far as horsepower, 100hp (+ some change, I think it was 102 or 103 hp actually) sound right for a 1996 IDI engine?
Haha, yeah right. LOL. I hope you didn't mean stock numbers?
Try more like 74 bhp @ 4,200 rpm and 111 lbf·ft @ 2,000 rpm.
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I think you are off 8v??? The 1.6L TD was 77hp wasn't it? I think that is in the bentley. Eco was 59 I think. I have no idea what it is but I think it should be around the 90hp mark as that is what the TDI's are, so probably a little lower...80something.
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well 74 hp is better than the 55 hp I'd get if I use the NA 1.6 Diesel I have. Just looked up the engine info on Wikipedia and confirmed your 74 HP.
You can dial the hp up a bit by adjusting the Injector Pump, right?
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Yeah, you can hit 100 fairly easily with the AAZ. Mind you, you do have a K03 so you're limited as far as boost goes. Maybe 15 psi tops.
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Yeah, you can hit 100 fairly easily with the AAZ. Mind you, you do have a K03 so you're limited as far as boost goes. Maybe 15 psi tops.
K03 is good to handle 18psi reliably. It was the same model years that got the GT-15 that can only handle the 15psi.
I'd say my brothers AAZ is easily over 100bhp.
I think you are off 8v??? The 1.6L TD was 77hp wasn't it? I think that is in the bentley. Eco was 59 I think. I have no idea what it is but I think it should be around the 90hp mark as that is what the TDI's are, so probably a little lower...80something.
Where do you get your numbers? LOL.
MF - 51 kilowatts (69 PS; 68 bhp) @ 4,500 rpm; 133 newton metres (98 lbf·ft) @ 2,500 rpm
ME - 40 kilowatts (54 PS; 54 bhp) @ 4,800 rpm; 96 newton metres (71 lbf·ft) @ 2,500 rpm
AAZ - 55 kilowatts (75 PS; 74 bhp) @ 4,200 rpm; 150 newton metres (111 lbf·ft) @ 2,000 rpm
1Z/AHU - 66 kilowatts (90 PS; 89 bhp) @ 4,000 rpm; 202 newton metres (149 lbf·ft) @ 1,900 rpm
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I figure if the engine is too far gone I at least have a usable trans, and shouldn't the trans work just as well for a TDI? There shouldn't really be any difference trans wise between the two types of engine.
And as far as horsepower, 100hp (+ some change, I think it was 102 or 103 hp actually) sound right for a 1996 IDI engine?
Depends on your trans code. Find it on the bell housing of your transmission. Go to this site:
http://zelek.com/diagram_charts/diagramlist.htm
Go through that list and determine your trans' gear ratios. Once you have that, go here:
http://www.scirocco.org/gears/
Input your current tire size into the fields provided. If you want to find your cruising speed, use your 5th gear ratio and specify your desired speed.
The trans will work with a TDI, but revs might be a little higher than a comparable TDI since the IDI's tend to be a little more efficient near the midrange. The only way to find out for sure is to determine your trans code.
And 8vOF is close; stock AAZ power figures are 75 HP @ 4500 RPM and 114 ft.lbs. at 2500 RPM. The ABA 2.0 gas motor is the only thing i can think of coming close to 100HP stock, and they only had 90-94 HP stock.
The AAZ is a solid engine minus crank concerns, and will serve you reliably in you Jetta. Adding an intercooler, installing larger diameter exhaust system from the downpipe back, and modifying your fuel injection pump and boost levels can and will see you beyond 100HP on the stock internals. I'd pick up head studs if you plan on going added power, to be on the safe side.
That's NOT knocking the awesomeness of a M-TDI AZU/1Z, but you've got yourself a solid base already, if the head and pistons haven't done too much damage to themselves. Do what R.O.R. and burn_your_money say, and dissemble the engine, fixing the crank sprocket concern as well as refurbing the valves/pistons if necessary.
Sorry for the long-winded take on things, just had a lot of thoughts on this. :)
Good luck!
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K03 is good to handle 18psi reliably. It was the same model years that got the GT-15 that can only handle the 15psi.
Are you talking about the TDI turbos? AAZs didn't get a GT-15 ???
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Whoops, yes I was. So yeah the k03 is good to 18psi :) lol
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Me thinks a 100hp rabbit pickup will do just fine. I do see you can get new Turbocharger upgrades on ebay for reasonable prices but would I really want to put the engine under extra heat and stress by messing with the turbo?
Not having any experience driving one all I think I'm looking for is the little thang having some guts out on the highway if I want to pass someone or hualing something heavy in the back. Plus I can see doing some traveling out west in some of the mountain regions too.
What I am used to tho' is my daily driver Altima V6, when I stomp on it, it goes!
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Decoding this vehicles VIN I see that the 1996 Jetta was only rated in the low to mid 30's for mpg. ...
I plan on giving the Caddy a couple extra inches of ground clearance so I can run taller tires (175/70 R14's that I have), between that, the trucks light weight and driving it gentle most of the time I was hoping to get somewhere in the mid to high 40's for mpg.
I had a 1.6 in my 5spd Caddy with tall tires & bad rings... I regularly got 50mpg on the highway. The trucks are very light.
The 5spd Dasher wagon I am driving has 180/80R 13s - it got 52.4mpg on last weekend (350mi round-trip).
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Jezebel with her 1.6 kicks serious aZZ in just about any situation. Once you get the hang of driving a turbo diesel you quickly realize that having peak torque in the 2K RPM range totally destroys most gassers at highway speed. I've got a big laggy K24 - I have to worry about keeping enough RPMs to spool the turbo. With the K03 you've got near instant boost whenever you want it, plus another 0.3L of engine on top of me!
You'll have all the power you'll need in the caddy, no problem. 18PSI is plenty - yeah, I run 20-25 or so myself, but really I can only hit that with the pedal to the floor in the upper RPM ranges, and realistically that only happens once in a blue moon. You spend way more of your time driving around about 2K, which is pretty much the magic zone for a K03. It's hard for me to get over 12 PSI at about 2K whereas you'll be able to max out your turbo at that speed.
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Whoops, yes I was. So yeah the k03 is good to 18psi :) lol
I wouldn't say the K03 is good to 18psi. At 10 psi you can actually feel the drop in high-end power. If someone wants to run more than 15 psi, then the K03 is not the turbo to use, especially on a 1.9.
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Whoops, yes I was. So yeah the k03 is good to 18psi :) lol
I wouldn't say the K03 is good to 18psi. At 10 psi you can actually feel the drop in high-end power. If someone wants to run more than 15 psi, then the K03 is not the turbo to use, especially on a 1.9.
It's basically the same turbo as in the AHU/1Zs that runs 15-18psi though isn't it?
Tyler
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Whoops, yes I was. So yeah the k03 is good to 18psi :) lol
I wouldn't say the K03 is good to 18psi. At 10 psi you can actually feel the drop in high-end power. If someone wants to run more than 15 psi, then the K03 is not the turbo to use, especially on a 1.9.
It's basically the same turbo as in the AHU/1Zs that runs 15-18psi though isn't it?
Tyler
just because it will build 18psi, does not mean it is doing it efficiently...
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It's basically the same turbo as in the AHU/1Zs that runs 15-18psi though isn't it?
just because it will build 18psi, does not mean it is doing it efficiently...
I mean from the factory. OEMs usually don't push parts outside of their designed safe zones.
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It's basically the same turbo as in the AHU/1Zs that runs 15-18psi though isn't it?
just because it will build 18psi, does not mean it is doing it efficiently...
I mean from the factory. OEMs usually don't push parts outside of their designed safe zones.
whats factory? 11-12psi?
the T3 only produced ~10psi, but is good for MUCH MORE than that..
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t's basically the same turbo as in the AHU/1Zs that runs 15-18psi though isn't it?
Tyler
Cut that in half and you're pretty close. Stock AHU/1Z max boost pressure is 0.5-0.65 bar (7.25-8.7 psi).
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t's basically the same turbo as in the AHU/1Zs that runs 15-18psi though isn't it?
Cut that in half and you're pretty close. Stock AHU/1Z max boost pressure is 0.5-0.65 bar (7.25-8.7 psi).
Clearly I've been misinformed. Thanks for clarifying.
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With the ALH (and VNT15) they bumped up the max boost, but the AHU max boost was surprisingly low. I believe that the low stock boost pressure is specifically because of the K03.
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Whoops, yes I was. So yeah the k03 is good to 18psi :) lol
I wouldn't say the K03 is good to 18psi. At 10 psi you can actually feel the drop in high-end power. If someone wants to run more than 15 psi, then the K03 is not the turbo to use, especially on a 1.9.
It's basically the same turbo as in the AHU/1Zs that runs 15-18psi though isn't it?
Tyler
just because it will build 18psi, does not mean it is doing it efficiently...
Actually, Yes. 18psi is right where the efficiency really drops off the face of the planet for the k03. Without an inter cooler really ANY boost is hot air that isn't doing as much as it could be if it were cold. SO with an inter cooler, 15-18psi has been with no ill side effects on k03 turbo's.
If a K24 can do ~28 psi, and a k14 can do ~23 psi, why can't the next size down feasibly do ~18 psi?
Andrew I have heard tale of AHU's boosting 11-13 psi for stock boost pressure. Since what we are both saying is non-factual, who has a bone stock AHU in a mk3 to test this out? lol
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I was quoting the factory max boost spec.
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Since what we are both saying is non-factual, who has a bone stock AHU in a mk3 to test this out? lol
My friends B4 is boosting 20 PSI, but his wastegate is sticky so that doesn't count. If I can find my boost gauge I'll see what mine is boosting, it's stock. Doesn't mean it's working right though.
I believe Andrew though.
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I was quoting the factory max boost spec.
Oh, I am sorry. I did not see it cited that you were quoting factory specifications. Easy to get misinformed on the interwebs.