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General Information => FAQ/Tech Tips/Please Read First => Topic started by: Sam Johnson on June 29, 2008, 03:07:41 pm
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All,
We are in the process of fabricating an A/C bracket for my AAZ engine mounted in a 1988 Vanagon GL. This means that we have to buy a longer serpentine belt to include the A/C compressor. Since I have to purchase a new belt, I am wondering if it would make sense to change the stock alternator pully to the newer free wheel type. There is nothing wrong with the present pulley but the idea would be to reduce strain on the crankshaft pulley. As far as I know my crankshaft nose has never been a problem but with the added stress of the A/C compressor anything that reduced some of this stress should be a good investment??
My alternator is a stock KC 14V 70A Bosch (028 903 025G). Will the newer free wheel alternator pulley fit directly on these older alternators? If so would you suggest I change to the newer pulley?? Where is a good place to purchase the pulley??
If the newer pulley will not fit I assume that means I have to change the
alternator as well as the pulley?? Any ideas or experience with upgrading alternators on AAZ engines? My alternator bracket has a means of mounting the PS but no way to mount an A/C compressor. If it helps it has an interesting spring system for placing tension on the serpentine belt.
Thanks for your suggestions and advice.
Regards, Sam
Tucson, AZ
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I am one who has upgraded my stock AAZ alternator pulley to the new ratcheting design... and based on the number of times I see it do its magic I feel much much better about the survival chances of my crank sprocket. You can actually hear the alternator try to overdrive the crank but the pulley releases and the belt stays smooth.
The new pulley is exactly the same size and offset as the original and will thread right on *but* you need a special tool set (available from Metalnerd among others) to tighten it down, and the old style alternator shaft won't take the new locking sleeve... I drilled and tapped the end of the old shaft to take an extra bolt instead.
Been meaning to post a HOW-TO and took pictures but never got around to it... you're the second guy that's brought this up recently so maybe I need to get off my butt.
Some pictures that will (eventually) get into the HOW-TO:
materials and supplies:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/materials.jpg)
Tapping for the locking bolt:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/tapping.jpg)
I pulled the old pulley off, wrapped the alternator tighter than an Egyptian mummy in about 100 layers of saran warp, and then put the old pulley back on to drill and tap. The shaft on mine cleverly had a dimple at the exact centre. Two bolts (seen on the left side of the first picture) fit down thru the housing into the fan to keep the shaft from turning.
Closeup of the finished product:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/closeup.jpg)
I got my pulley from my usual jobber... VW # 028 903 119 AA.
$110 hard-earned Canadian dollars :shock: and in my mind worth every penny every time I hear it release and save my crank. :wink:
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Vince,
Thanks for the prompt response and the very useful pictures. On another couple of websites I have seen 022 903 119C quoted as the part number for this pulley. At World Impex, 028 903 119AA is over US$160 while 022 903 119C is about US$70. At Bus Depot 028 903 119AA is around US$60 while 022 903 119C is around US$67. Any idea about the difference between these two parts, other than price??
For certain you need to take time to post your How To.
Regards, Sam
Tucson, AZ
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Hey Sam... de nada.
In terms of the different parts (and their very different prices) when I did my initial investigation I couldn't convince myself that the cheaper of the two had exactly the same offset, diameter, shaft size and thread pitch etc... I believe it's for the later TDIs, which I believe use a different style of alternator. The AA part is listed as a direct substitution in my ETKA.
Since I couldn't find an easy way to convince my suppliers to let me return the cheaper version if it didn't fit I bellied up for the one I knew would work.
So, if you can figure out a way to check this again (or perhaps someone else has tried ?) you'll resolve yet another mystery of the universe and make it much more affordable for all AAZ owners to perform this pretty-darn-useful upgrade. :wink:
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I have made this upgrade to my car as well since the darn belt tensioner was rattling so bad at idle and nothing I did helped until the dealer told me of this upgrade... sure enough, no more noise and the belt runs smooth. Well worth the rather high price and only took me 10 min to swap it in. The dealer even loaned me the spline tool.
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The dealer even loaned me the spline tool.
Hang on to that dealer son.... he/she is a gem. Every one I talked to didn't even know the pulley existed, let alone that a special spline tool was required... let alone lend me the tool. :wink:
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I just received my freewheel pulley from Bosch for roughly US$ 50.
What size bolt and what thread do I need to install it?
Thanks!
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i changed the whole bracket and fitted the complete alt, worthwhile upgrade IMO!!
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pulley info :
038-903-119 A : Uses 6 Groove belt, Used on 70 & 90 / 120 Amp Alternators
Belt part # Non-A/C 6KP1045 10.65
Belt part With A /C TYPE # 6PK1145 ( Continental ) 12.60 from Autohausaz.com
Hope this Help's
MORE INFO ON COMPLETE PULLEY INFO ON THE OTHER POST.
I knew this was Groovey
GB !
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GEE-BEE.. thanks for the info! I just realized I have messed it all up!
Both of my alternators are 90 amps and my car has aircon. After reading out Vince post I also ordered the 028 6 grove pulley.. but my alternators are 90 amps which I just checked now..
So is there any way I can make this work on a 90 amp alternator? or if I find a 120 amp alternator will I be able to fit that into my car and use the same belt rest of the pulleys?
Thanks!
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Double check how many grooves are on your main pulley and go from there...
I searched ebay: vw clutched pulley and prices and there is a importer on the east coast of the U.S. that only sell's canadian OEM pulley's
meyle is now being made in China
GB
85.00 to 109.95
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Okay I installed it on the 90 amp Bosch alternator. And original pulleys on both the generators were 6 groves in spite of being 90 amp.
The valeo alternator does not take the pulley part# 028 903 119 AA (bosch part# 1 127 011 846 and 1 126 601 565) 6 groves. the shaft is too small in length.
And on the Bosch one the washer behind the 24mm nut has to go behind the new pulley 028 903 119 AA pulley to attain the correct offset.
I must say this thing works wonder!! The belt is so smooth now and doesn't jump any more.. finally that irritating noise is gone.
Thanks guys for all the help; couldn't have done with you all!
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My main pulley and ac pulley also have 6 groves and the belt is 6pk.
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Best price for non-China ( ina )
Ebay item #200350268420
75.00 free shipping
I let Al know I would post this , So ask for the Forum price.....
He also has a link that explains how these things work and reduce stress on the drive belt system.
You will not need the spacer behind the pulley.....
GB
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Gonna move this post to the FAQ... it's now got some great part numbers, clarifications, etc.
Thanks all!!
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I picked up a 120A TDI alternator to play with; it fits the AAZ mount, but loosely. Putting washers on the rear (wiring side) of the mount puts the pulley in correct alignment. It's a bit tricky to get the washer into the lower mount while holding the belt tensioner, and pushing the bolt in simultaneously. :P I also needed a washer on the bolt head to prevent it from bottoming.
The TDI alternator has a plug, instead of terminals for the tach and exciter wires, I found one on the old Vanagon wire loom that should work with a little modification... the alt plug is a deep female with 2 male contacts.
I've also heard that Bosch alternators from a Land Rover will fit? Anyone confirm this? 130A is standard.
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It will be interesting to see if the TDI alternator has a working W signal, since the TDI cluster gets its tach signal from the ECU via the crank position sensor iirc.
There's every reason to believe it will...since those features often blur over between model years.
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This is a used unit, and pretty crusty... I didn't know the thread inserts were supposed to move, & I don't know that they will here unless coerced. In aviation we call it "malletizing". ;D I'll hit it with Kroil for a few days and see if they shift.
Supposedly, the two contacts of the plug are the "W" and the field. I saw a picture where someone had labeled which was which, I have to find it.
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Supposedly, the two contacts of the plug are the "W" and the field. I saw a picture where someone had labeled which was which, I have to find it.
Perhaps this is the picture you're thinking of ?
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/AAZalternator.jpg)
I can see them not bothering to change plug styles between all the various incantations of that alternator platform... the question is... is the W terminal actually connected internally?
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.... and now that I think about it... pretty sure that's an AAZ alternator in the picture, and as I'm finding out to my frustration VW went for a whole different line of OEM connectors on the MK4 platform.
I've got a TDI alternator apart in the garage as we speak... will sneak a peek tonight and perhaps post up a picture or two.
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Yeah, the connector on my alt is deeper than that and a bit oval shaped, but the pins are the same.
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Check your alignment with the belt, Mine did not require the spacer behind the pulley on my AAZ install
Hope this help's
GB