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General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: The Mad Hatter on April 07, 2009, 11:20:09 am
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Ok, i'm making a junkyard run later this week, and wanted to know what to look for to upgrade the brakes on the ol' VW. I've got an 85 Golf Diesel, mostly stock, but it has been lowered slightly.
What i'm trying to find is the easiest brake upgrade i can find. I've got a rear disc axle i'll be swapping in soon, and from what i've read i'll need a bigger master cylinder (?). But the front brakes do most of the work, so i'm looking for an easy upgrade from the stock 9.4" solid setup. I could probably find a 9.4" vented setup, but not sure what parts i would need to grab for that swap. I'm guessing its just a different caliper.
But, what's involved with the 10.1" swap? I suppose its been around so long i can't find information describing what's necessary! Just looking for a good cheap brake upgrade for the daily driver. Thanks for any help!
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i have all of the mk3 brakes on my mk2 from the front end (10.1) You don't need the master cylinder but it is a good idea. Everything bolts right up. same ball joints/tie rod ends. ask me if you need any help. stops on a dime.
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Ok, so what parts are needed. What do i need to grab off a parts car? I'm guessing caliper, rotor (probably get new ones), and the knuckle? It will need an alignment after that, also, correct?
EDIT: It seems to me after some more research that I can just upgrade the rotors to the 9.4" vented type (get some good ones like brembos), and some good pads (Red box or EBC Greenstuff), along with the rear disc axle swap, and i should be pretty well off for a daily driver diesel? Thoughts? Opinions?
I'm trying to build a good car using minimal money. So far i've done pretty well, but i need to upgrade my tire investment, as the $46 Kuhmo Ectsa's just don't cut it for commuter duty in the rain, and wear out after 20K miles. My front brakes are just about wore out, so i figure now would be the good time to upgrade the whole thing, on the cheap. Thanks again, for any help!
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you can get some mean pads and rotors for the 9.4s and that will be good I am sure but if you go mk3 it will probably be cheaper because those nice pads and rotors are expensive. The mk3 way will need caliper, knuckle,bolts and the caliper holder bracket. you will need new wheel bearings in the mk3 hubs which is tough to do and new stock rotors and pads. (rotors are vented usually stock on mk3s) It will take replacing some things like the steering components, tire rod ends, ball joints, etc. but it is a little work for a good upgrade. if you want easy then buy the nice 9.4 pads and rotors, they aren't hard to change. if you do go mk3 you will need an alignment of course! hope that helps.
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If you do go the 10.1 route, see if you can get the 22mm master cylinder that goes along with them, might as well, required to use the rear discs.
Already had the rear discs but, last year I swapped 9.4 fronts for 10.1s and a bigger master cylinder setup huge difference.
I used Mintex Red Box "OE Compound" pads, cost about the same as generic pads. Seem to be doing very well, haven't seen much dust either.
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So the 22mm master cylinder is required for the rear disc swap? I've gotten different answers on that. I've been told it is, and it isn't.
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I'm trying to remember, but aren't 10.1's standard on some of the MK2 cars? Like the 16V cars, Jetta, Rocco, GTI, (maybe Audi 4000)? Wasn't this direct bolt-up to the MK1 hub?
ONCE THIS IS RESOLVED AGAIN, MAYBE IT SHOULD BE PUT IN A FAQ??
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For the Golf specifically (as that's what i've been using for research), all the parts sites i use list NO 10.1" discs for a Mk2 Golf. Only 9.4", for the 16V all the way down to the GL.
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i really don't think you need the master cylinder even with the mk3 rear discs, it is just a matter of preference but i could be wrong. Don't worry about the 10s being on the mk2s, just use the mk3s discs up front because the 10s wont fit on the 9.4 calipers anyway
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Sorry, missed the part about it being an 85 Golf. (I'm dope slapping myself)
The idea with the master cylinder up grade is that with the larger front discs and the addition of rear discs there is more fluid that needs be to pushed to the calipers. By increasing the diameter of the MC it allows you to move the fluid without feeling like you are pushing the brake pedal down more than you are used to.
Having said that, you can be a little too large, like the MC off an Audi 100. Which is a very short pedal stroke, but you have to push harder. It's like the brake booster provides you "leverage" and the size of the MC also effects this leverage. The end result being the force applied to the rotor.
Hopefully this kinda makes sense. I want to have the breaking force available to lock the front wheels without making the brake pedal a leg press machine. :wink:
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Lol, AudiVWguy, its cool. See, i'm going with the rear discs from a Mk2 GTI, NOT a Mk3. And it seems that the cheapest and easiest way to go for this car, being a daily driver and not my sports car (thats the RS), that switching to vented 9.4" front discs with good rotors/pads and the 8.9" Mk2 rear discs should be great. If I can get away with not changing the MC for that setup, that's perfect for me.
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Brake pads will make the single largest difference. I'm running Hawk HPS. The wife's car has Axxis Ultimate VERY impressive. Then there's always Carbotech (buy the best and cry once 8) )
Good Luck,
-JB
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new pads feel great, get em
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to revive this thread in relation to the master cylinder-
Id like to partially do what mad hatter did. I want to leave the front brakes on my 86 alone and stock, and get rear rotors from a mk3 and install them.
Ive heard I can use an entire beam from a mk3 and just connect the brake lines and suspension, is this possible?
If I only swapped over to rear rotors off a mk3, would I have to alter the master cylinder thats stock to my 86?
Id like to leave that alone if I can avoid it, but id also like to get away from persistent drum drag problems ive been having with the stock arrangement.
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I'm pretty sure the mk3 beam is wider than the mk2. Depending on your tires I think it's ok though.
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I'm pretty sure the mk3 beam is wider than the mk2. Depending on your tires I think it's ok though.
Want to say you're right. Either way, the MK3 rear spindles will go on the MK2 axle just fine, as will just the discs. You can use a 16V Scirocco MC for 9.4", or the Corrado MC if you go 10.1" fronts. The reason is mostly to prevent the rear discs from locking up due to the amount of fluid the stock MC's drum circuit pushes.
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ive been to the yard today and ive found a 97 Jetta GT with rear discs on it. (the only mk3 in the yard that doesn't have drums).
I will have to return on monday morning with a spade so I can dig down enough to remove relevant brake stuff. Im assuming I can use this 97 stuff on my 86 without too much difficulty.
Question, are the spindles between the caliper and drum identical apart from the provision for caliper bolt holes? Does anyone sell these stub axles new? I have searched and only found the drum type stub axles
EDIT- Autohausaz has the caliper specific stub axles for around 60 bucks apiece. Might go this route rather than dig up some rusted POS stub axle instead.
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Tyler, have you added this to the FAQ thread or no? some good info.
How much of an upgrade are you looking for? And what kind of upgrade are you looking for? Are you hill racing this thing? Driving like a dickhead and need more "OH %&#*#*" stopping power?
I might be one to think too big of a brake might be a very bad thing, in some ways. Much less weight so they will lock up a whole lot easier.
A good vented 9.4" setup will stop a turned up AAZ with rear drums quite adequately. I see that you've got an 85 GOLF, have you motor swapped? Is it still non-turbo? 9.4" solids will do more than fine for that car.
I daily an 84 Jetta (2150lbs with me in it) that has a more than stock powered AHU engine, it has 9.4 solid rotors up front and 180x30 drums in the back. It stops more than adequately.
Not trying to rain on the parade man, I am just giving you some real world experience.
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I have not added it to the FAQ, go ahead.
Another situation where larger/vented brakes would help is if you do a lot of mountain driving, or if you tow. Also if you drive on the 401 ::)
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Alright I will.
I would go vented first, and then maybe the next time it needs brakes.. upgrade to a bigger size.
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I'm pretty sure the mk3 beam is wider than the mk2. Depending on your tires I think it's ok though.
mk3 is MUCH wider...
4" wider than the mk2 rear end..
i dont see it possible to swap a mk3 rear beam into a mk2, and still run tires, without hitting your fenders..
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I have not added it to the FAQ, go ahead.
Another situation where larger/vented brakes would help is if you do a lot of mountain driving, or if you tow. Also if you drive on the 401 ::)
for me personally, its twofold, one lots of crowded freeway driving. (another upgrade im considering is a pair of additional brake lights on the rear deck. You get rear ended once, you get shy, and after all, the mk2 is still a slow beer can compared to most other vehicles on the road)
2nd, i find calipers cleaner and easier to service/inspect, I hate dealing with rusted out drums full of brake dust.