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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: VTPSD on July 12, 2013, 10:19:59 am

Title: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on July 12, 2013, 10:19:59 am
I have an older (early 70s) ford 4400 industrial diesel tractor. I want to add a turbo mostly just for the fun of it. It doesnt see hard field use, just some log skidding and driveway work. The engine is a very heavy duty 3.3 liter 3 cylinder NA diesel rated at 62hp. The fuel pump settings are stock.
This is really a just for fun project, a little whistle and maybe a tad more power. The manifold is very easily set up to mount a turbo, and there is plenty of room under the hood for plumbing. I was thinking about using a t3 turbo from an 85 saab 900. They can be had cheap, flanges are easy to come by etc. It is oil cooled only, and internally wastegated. I think I could run this setup at 5psi on my stock engine and be fine. Just looking for an opinion on sizing. I *think* this turbo is close to the correct size for this engine. Its a 3.3 liter and turns at a max of 2200 rpm. As I said, the engines in these things are extremely heavy build in every way. Am I on the right track, or do you think I need to find something a bit bigger? The tractor does most of its work in the 1200-2000 rpm range.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on July 12, 2013, 10:21:20 am
Googling tells me the saab turbo flow about 25lb/min max.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on July 12, 2013, 12:43:36 pm
my other option is an audi k24 that I have. Only issue with that is there is no internal wastegate. I might just be able to run it as is, or add a gate into my turbo feed pipe later.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 12, 2013, 11:38:20 pm
my other option is an audi k24 that I have. Only issue with that is there is no internal wastegate. I might just be able to run it as is, or add a gate into my turbo feed pipe later.

saab t3 should do the trick, u can see on this plotted compressor map here at 5 psi you'll be in the 70% efficiency range from 1300 rpms all the way to 2200.  the exhaust housing might be a little big but probably not.   also at 5 psi u could possibly make 100 hp at 2000rpm

(http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/graph.php?version=4&pr0=1&pr1=1.07&pr2=1.21&pr3=1.34&pr4=1.34&pr5=1.34&pr6=1.34&pr7=1.34&airflow0=3.7&airflow1=4&airflow2=5.2&airflow3=6.5&airflow4=8&airflow5=8.6&airflow6=9.7&airflow7=9.9&product_id=76)

Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on July 15, 2013, 09:28:52 am
excellent, i am bidding on a nice t3 from an early 900 complete with internal wastegate. I think the wastegate on those is 5psi, so that could work nicely. I am going to have to get a bit creative with piping, but there should be ample room under the hood to make it fit. Trying to have the stack come out of the original hole is the only real trick. Otherwise the install would be really easy. It even has an oil feed port currently plugged on the right side of the block and everything!
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 15, 2013, 02:51:57 pm
pics... i like the idea.. wastegate.. you can add in say a air compressor regulator to make it manual control.. just rember egt when doing this all..

you tube has vids of tractors with turbos added.. crazy stuff..
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on July 15, 2013, 03:32:20 pm
Ill get some pics when I get started. Probably wont be for a month or so. Just picked up the tractor and I am sorting out some other little details first. (fuel pump leak, non charging alternator, power steering weak etc).
I am not planning on anything crazy like those pulling tractors. Just a very small amount of boost for entertainment sake really. I don't want to make anywhere near 100 hp, i am not planning on touching the pump settings at first and seeing how it reacts. Will try one of those cheap ebay digital pyro gauges to make sure it doesn't get too hot.

There shouldn't be anything too challenging about the install except maybe the turbo drain line. There is a nice tube that could easily be tapped into (it is used as an oil fill). The problem is that it is on the opposite side of the engine from the exhaust manifold and area where the turbo will live. The drain line would have to run around the front of the engine and drop in. I am not really sure if that is ok or not. Turbo drain lines are usually close to vertical and short. This would be running at maybe 30 degrees and be 24-30 inches long with a continuous slope. I don't really know if this is ok. I could tap into the cast oil pan for a drain, but would rather not. Want to be able to return completely to stock if I don't like it.
I would like opinions on the drain line quandary.
Here is the old beast in question, its short and stocky but weighs over 9000 lbs and is 62hp! I love it, I just picked up a set of studded log skidder chains for it. Cant wait to get those on and do some work. This tractor is very strong, but has terrible tires on it.

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/DSCN0961_zps0138cad2.jpg)
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 15, 2013, 09:46:27 pm
no i refer to the volvo turbo (gas) modded one doing donuts and such...

but the pic shows where the stack needs to be :D and helps us see what your playing with..
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: 8v-of-fury on July 15, 2013, 10:30:30 pm
If it doesn't work out to be concealable, you could easily do a remote turbo setup with the turbo up above that "hood" with no issue or power loss. A little lag, but with set RPM like a tractor.. who cares.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on July 15, 2013, 10:39:19 pm
ahh yes the volvo "terror" tractor. That thing is scary!

I think there is enough room under the hood. Ill get some pics of the cavity that I think it will fit. Hoping to win an ebay auction for the saab t3 and start thinking up ways to fit it in there.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on July 16, 2013, 08:21:33 am
I am also considering this one, not sure about size though. The only k24 turbos that I am familiar with are the externally gated ones from the 5 cylinder gasser audi cars. Are these a similar size? If so I think it could work with the internal WG.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDI-VW-K24-Turbocharger-KKK-Germany-/360683586700?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53fa6ac48c&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on July 16, 2013, 09:04:35 am
I am actually liking this option a lot. From an om603 mercedes, should be plenty big enough. Internal WG, has a flex pipe on it already that I could use to attach exhaust to. Only thing that might be a no-go is the inlet flange. Looks a lot like a standard t3 to me. but im not sure.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Benz-Turbo-Diesel-turbocharger-OM603-002-096-9899-/111046924176?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19dae99790&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on July 17, 2013, 09:57:53 am
well I won the saab t3 on ebay, so i guess that is the direction I am heading. I think it is the most compact option which is good. I ordered up some piping to start playing with and a new metal chopsaw that I have been dieing to get anyways. No more cutting tube with an angle grinder!  ;D
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: 410 on July 27, 2013, 06:39:43 pm
Any progress on the tractor?  Can't wait to see the outcome!
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 01, 2013, 11:01:54 am
Any progress on the tractor?  Can't wait to see the outcome!
Nothing interesting yet, I have been going through the tractor and sorting out all the little issues. The low pressure transfer pump on the end of the IP broke its rotor randomly. I had a hell of a time finding another one. I ended up buying a parts pump from ebay and salvaging parts out of that one. Tractor is running great now, got all the dash working except the coolant gauge. I would like to get that going and run it a bit to get an idea of how hot it runs before I add the turbo. Fixing leaks, replacing all fluids and filters and getting gauges working on something like this is expensive!! I have put 15 gallons of hytran oil in its various sumps so far!
I do have most of the parts on hand now, just need to place an order for the oil line stuff and then pick a weekend and bang it out. Looks like I can fit the turbo under the stock sheet metal with a bit of creative piping. Its going to be a fun little project. I will post some pictures once I actually do something worth showing.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 09, 2013, 09:01:30 am
I placed an order for the rest of the stuff from summit to pipe this up and build oil lines. Found a perfect 3/8" npt oil port that is currently plugged that will be my feed, and the timing cover will be drilled and have a 1/2" NPT bung welded on for a drain. They are both in basically ideal spots in relation to the manifold. Sweet. Now I just need to carve out a full weekend day to get this all together.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: 410 on August 09, 2013, 10:17:32 pm
I bet it will be pretty awesome. 8)
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: snakemaster on August 15, 2013, 03:37:29 pm
i bet it will sound awesome , but with a stock injection pump you will only see about 6hp , is it a CAV pump , most are on those fords of that age
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 15, 2013, 04:58:21 pm
Around the 10hp gain area on a sub 100hp engine is alot hahaha
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 16, 2013, 12:46:13 pm
i bet it will sound awesome , but with a stock injection pump you will only see about 6hp , is it a CAV pump , most are on those fords of that age
6hp is fine for me, this is more for entertainment than horsepower. Honestly the loose mountain soil where i live doenst offer enough traction to bog this thing down anyway, even with big studded skidder chains. Yes its a CAV pump, i took my parts pump apart and i think i have found the fuel setting, but I am going to leave the fuel stock at first. Maybe attempt turning it up a bit once I see how it is all going to work.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 16, 2013, 01:31:02 pm
i have a tdi ko3 id love to try sticking on my little john deere 112l lawn mower, even if it didn't make any boost it would sound cool and be a fun little project.  im pretty sure that engine actually has a pressurized oiling system i think carb linkage/ governor may be the only "tough" part.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 22, 2013, 09:44:32 pm
pulled the tractor in tonight and took the sheet metal off. Got the exhaust off and started making the turbo adapter peice. Everything looks like it is going to fit just like I wanted. The WG actuator wants to hit the sheet metal, so i am going to try and run it with the wg closed and see what kind of boost it makes. if it makes over 5psi I will have to rework the wastegate linkage, but that should be doable. So far it looks like fitment is as good as i hoped!
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: theman53 on August 22, 2013, 09:58:30 pm
Great to hear it is working out. Lots of swaps don't.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 23, 2013, 08:10:56 am
Great to hear it is working out. Lots of swaps don't.
so far so good, but there is still plenty to go wrong  ;D
looks like fitment is going to be just fine though. I even found a matching gasket for the flange on the manifold at NAPA this morning, so i won't have a leak there when I re-assemble. I took a few pics, will take more when I get farther along. Hopeing to be completely wrapped up by saturday afternoon. I have some driveway work to do thanks to mega downpours last night  ::)
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 23, 2013, 09:35:20 am
Great to hear it is working out. Lots of swaps don't.
not my first stupid tractor related swap  ;D

i diesel swapped my wheel horse mower a few years ago and rigged up a generator too. I can run 240v straight into a welded plug in my shop and throw a switch and power my whole house and shop and burn almost no fuel in a day.

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Garage%20Project/019.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Garage%20Project/020.jpg)
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 23, 2013, 10:06:33 pm
What kind of generator is that, that you can run the whole house on ? lol
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 25, 2013, 08:33:10 pm
What kind of generator is that, that you can run the whole house on ? lol
Its only rated at 4000w but i dont have much of a load at the house. The biggest draw is the well pump, and you can hear it when it cuts in. Works great though, set the speed by comparing the stove clock to a stop watch, if you get it at 60hz the clock will be accurate.

Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 25, 2013, 08:40:49 pm
look its all done. Works darn well. Makes 5-6 psi at full throttle under load. Noticable increase in power and cool noises. I got it finished this morning then drove it 13 miles to my friends and ran it on the harley rake all day long and drove it home. Not a single hickup until about 1 mile from home it started getting hot. It is a 2000 foot climb to get back home so it was working HARD getting home, but still it should not get hot. It had an issue getting hot on the road before the turbo too. I think the radiator needs to get cleaned out or rebuilt. It doesnt get crazy hot, it just builds heat slowly and very gently boils over. Throttle it back and it cools down. Other than that it is awesome. Ill load up some more pics later, but here is a little clip. Its all  turbo noise now, awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crNrTY4hSYw&feature=c4-overview&list=UUWhPq7QLqZH3yXFlH3sQEvg
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: 410 on August 25, 2013, 09:15:34 pm
Your comment at the end of the video says it all.  Sweet!  Nice work.  I love how it looks totally stock and I love the sound of the turbo. 8)
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 25, 2013, 09:17:55 pm
all the parts
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1088_zps79b98222.jpg)
ready for surgery
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1089_zpsec23fce8.jpg)

the space i have to work with
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1093_zps4a6ac428.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1094_zpsd4dafd5e.jpg)

harvesting the flange
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1095_zps437023e2.jpg)

cleaned up
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1096_zpse1fe2010.jpg)

turbo adapter
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1097_zps9eed6016.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1098_zps6f10dc05.jpg)

test mount
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1099_zpsadcfefe3.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1100_zpsdab96926.jpg)

timing cover with oil drain added
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1101_zps2813f0f1.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1102_zpsa661ce0c.jpg)

drain installed
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1103_zpsef8654ac.jpg)

i broke a fitting for the oil feed so i couldnt run it the way i wanted. Had to make do this straight fitting work, dont love how the line is routed, will redo later.
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1104_zps4ef5b515.jpg)

not loving this, have to re-order new hose ends.
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1105_zpsa6e3398b.jpg)

cutting the stock opening bigger
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1106_zps29bf1a1b.jpg)

fitting stack
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1107_zps717052ef.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1108_zps042bc880.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1109_zps8edbcc1c.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1110_zpsaac54bb8.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1111_zpsb4586063.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1111_zpsb4586063.jpg)

and done, doesnt look half bad, actually.
(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1113_zps0ec46f0c.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1114_zpsf3401c08.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1115_zpsaf7b1835.jpg)

(http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/danapcurtis/Tractor/DSCN1116_zps13909d99.jpg)

Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: 410 on August 25, 2013, 10:22:27 pm
Nicely done.  That battery is massive! 
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: burn_your_money on August 25, 2013, 10:32:30 pm
Looks good. I think that turbo needs a brace though.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 25, 2013, 10:36:16 pm
i reworked the factory brace that you can see in the first few pics. It sits just under the elbow of the stack so its pretty well braced I think.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: burn_your_money on August 25, 2013, 10:39:29 pm
Oh ok. I think I can see it in the third to last picture.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: ORCoaster on August 25, 2013, 10:44:57 pm
What no bumble bee stripes.  That thing has such a nice buzz to it I would think that would be mandatory.  Oh, but it is a Ford. 
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 27, 2013, 11:42:57 am
yeah looks sweet, almost oem appearing.  was it hard to decide which way the turbo should face?  looks like there would have been a lot less intake piping if the compressor was in the front, but i guess thats no big deal.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 27, 2013, 12:16:29 pm
i don't love the intake plumbing length, but it is a lot easier to route that around than hot exhaust piping. Plus intake piping is 2" exhaust was 3" (unnecessary i know) If i had reversed the turbo and cut a new hole in the hood the stack would have been right next to the fuel tank and also my face. I thought some slightly convoluted intake piping was a good compromise.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 27, 2013, 01:33:01 pm
i don't love the intake plumbing length, but it is a lot easier to route that around than hot exhaust piping. Plus intake piping is 2" exhaust was 3" (unnecessary i know) If i had reversed the turbo and cut a new hole in the hood the stack would have been right next to the fuel tank and also my face. I thought some slightly convoluted intake piping was a good compromise.

makes sense!  so the answer is that it was easy to decide which way to face the turbo haha.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: VTPSD on August 27, 2013, 01:47:50 pm
yep, it was one of the first things i decided. Once i got the turbo in my hands and confirmed that the there was enough room to squeeze some silicone between the inlet and the fuel tank, it was decided for sure. I wanted to keep the turbo centered over the manifold too. I did have to relocate that little fuel return bulb thing that you can see is crammed in the way. I just moved it to the outside about an inch.
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: snakemaster on August 28, 2013, 07:25:40 pm
nice job you done there  ;)
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 23, 2013, 05:09:08 pm
this is downright AWESOME...
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: vanbcguy on October 23, 2013, 06:19:16 pm
Hey just realized, where's the video of it actually outside moving around??? :D :D :D
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 23, 2013, 06:39:12 pm
Hey just realized, where's the video of it actually outside moving around??? :D :D :D

we need to see this beast rollin smoke off the rear tires!
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: 8v-of-fury on November 20, 2013, 08:15:53 pm
Hey just realized, where's the video of it actually outside moving around??? :D :D :D

we need to see this beast rollin smoke off the rear tires!

Hmm, maybe one tire.. lol They have a lot of traction! lol
Title: Re: adding a turbocharger to my tractor
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on December 26, 2013, 04:49:44 pm
Volvo terror rolls smoke off both rears...