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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: blkboostedtruck on May 22, 2007, 01:30:15 am
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does anyone know or heard of someone trying a G60 supercharger on a turbo diesel motor in place of the turbo ? or with even in conjuction with the turbo? i think it sounds like kinda of a wild project! i would like to hear some input and opinion from others about it? thanks Duane
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G60's make good boost and are fairly efficient, but they are too fragile unless you really drop the cash to get them rebuilt correctly, and for what that costs, you could have 4 turbos. Not worth it.
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
81 Scirocco 'S 3A & 4k
01 Jeep TJ 4.0
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but if that all said and done money droped in rebuild ! i'm curious about low end torque ? the air that it gets at lower rpm and would the LDA respond to the low boost signal from the supercharger? Duane
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yes. do it. depending on the vehicle and the distance to the rad/rad support, the alternator could be moved down underneith the charger with the charger in the typical G60 location. brackets and proper alignment seems to be the main issue with something like this. the boost response especially down low with a healthy, ported, small pulley (but not ridiculous) G60 is certainly worth the effort to make it happen in my opinion. i'd really appreciate something like this but many people stay away from this supercharger and there is a fair bit to be said about a turbocharger on a diesel. none-the-less i've always loved this idea.
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the vehicle is a caddy ! i know the corrado 1.8 G60 motor will fit in a pickup because i have already installed one in one of my pickups . i used the corrado radiator ,did a little trimming on the radiator core support and made it tuck underneath/inside the support. it makes the hood latch inoperable and had to go to hood pins .but between headlight to headlight is all radiator! looks impressive. the only thing that i hope works out is like you said is the brackets.but i'm curious why no auto manufacture has not produced this combonation ? i know i'm not the first one to think of this idea! i'm sure it must of been considered by some engenier at one time ? ya think? does anyone know the answer to this?and does anyone else have an opinion to this idea ? input would be great no matter witch way you think about this!
thanks Duane
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i believe the main point favouring turbos on diesel engines is that typically diesels are designed for economy. turbos basically scavenge exhaust gases that would otherwise be wasted, and use them to produce boost. a supercharger imposes a load on the engine which actually robs power and efficiency, but then makes up for the power lost, and then some. (turbos are also cheaper to manufacture, allowing production costs of otherwise identical turbo diesel vehicles to remain lower than if they featured superchargers)
it is possible to have a clutch pulley (like an AC compressor) on the supercharger pulley so that it doesn't impose a drag on the system when boost is not required (idle, low throttle position).
the important difference between diesel and the G60 setup as far as fitment and brackets is the lack of the injection pump on the G60 engine. you would have to put the charger in front of the IP, or below, and then you still need an alternator (i hope you're not partial to power steering or AC!) i'm sure it can be done but in a mkI it would likely be a challenging fit.
there are many ways to skin a cat, using the supercharger AND and turbo would be the way to go but obviously far more complex.
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hey now you brought up a real brilliant idea with the clutch idea !! how about a throttle position switch where at idle the SC is off and when it starts to open the it turns on to say mid way or 3/4 throttle and switches back off or find the point where the turbo has taken over the boost i think that makes sence just to use the SC in low rpm and shuts off at high rpm allowing the SC not to take the brunt of the use less wear and tear on the SC.A/C and power steering is nice but not necessary for me! i have'nt hade a car with it yet .by the time i get a car or truck it is usally gone or i will remove it my self. it only gets real hot here in wisconsin for a couple of weeks a year .i just jump on the harley and head for the lake it's always cooler by lake michigan. you brout out some good points i appreciate all your insite! look forward for more ! thanks Duane
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there are many ways to skin a cat, using the supercharger AND and turbo would be the way to go but obviously far more complex.
Working on that. ;)
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
81 Scirocco 'S w/ 3A and 4k
01 Jeep TJ 4.0
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there are many ways to skin a cat, using the supercharger AND and turbo would be the way to go but obviously far more complex.
Working on that. ;)
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
81 Scirocco 'S w/ 3A and 4k
01 Jeep TJ 4.0
have you forgoten Red Green's other Quote?
(if the women don;t find me handsom? atleast they will find me handy!!)
i'm sure it sounds crazy but i'm up for a good challenge ! Duane
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doesnt sound crazy to me.
do you have a thread or page going for that Brendan? :D
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Brendan give me an engeniering prospective on convincing me why this wont work? besides money and practability! i've done everything else to a vw truck from 8v turbo w/N.O.S.-1.8G60 transplant-TD transplant and now i would like to attempt a supercharged/turbo diesel . thats whats got my intrest now.the diesel engine is uncharted and has not tottaly been exploited even though it's been around for so long thanks Duane
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money is the real issue... if you have time / money / patience... you can make this work.
one of the biggest issues is disabling the supercharger when the turbo kicks on...
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The g60 charger isnt as unreliable as everyone says it is.....I have had one charger on 2 corrados for 5 years....if you take care of it and keep up on maintanence it will be fine. I also rebuilt it myself once, and it is not very difficult you just have to be gentle. With the charger running a small enuf pulley and the diesel's low rpm's you would be able to push about 22psi at 5000rpm. Unless you want to run more boost than that I dont see a need for a turbo. And about the g60 taking power from the engine.....on a stock g60 engine it uses 9hp to spin it at redline making 9-11psi. It is one of the most efficient chargers ever made. I like the idea though.....I think that a rabbit with a set-up like that would really haul a55.
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kudos on that. I'm a fan of the G60 charger as well. Its all about maintenence on them...as already mentioned. If you change its timing belt regularly, follow the procedures, etc...and have a decent core to work with as well they aren't hard to rebuild either.
I had one on a 91 'rado until I rebuilt the motor to stg 4 specs and ran a lysholm on the car...
Hmm...now that would be fun too... diesel knocking, fire engine roaring MK1 diesel rabbit...
Joe
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i even balieve that putting the G60 on a diesel engine the supercharger will even last longer than being on a gas engine because of the lower RPM's that the diesel engine produces! so the longejevety seems to double in my opinion i think it will out perform a turbo! does anyone else agree with this ? thanks Duane
is there anyone else gong to be a pioneer and build one along with me?
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i think this type of setup should be geared towards N/A engines... since you don't need to worry about super hot exhausts melting everything...
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i even balieve that putting the G60 on a diesel engine the supercharger will even last longer than being on a gas engine because of the lower RPM's that the diesel engine produces! so the longejevety seems to double in my opinion i think it will out perform a turbo! does anyone else agree with this ? thanks Duane
it is all relative to the size of pulley that is used on the charger. i believe stock they are 72mm IIRC and i've seen ones as small as 50mm IIRC. so yes, probably the charger life would be longer if you use a 72 but personally i would go with a smaller one on a diesel (i had a 65 or something like that on my G60 car).
is there anyone else gong to be a pioneer and build one along with me?
thought about it for about 5 years now...one thing has remained the same, no time/$$$$ for this, or i'd be right with you. :evil:
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well this set up has multable ways you can set it up ! it's the extra fuel that pruduces heat! so if you run a fuel inriched pump yes you will need all special heat resistance componants that was desined into the turbo motor but if you run this on an N/A engine like an old B.A.E. turbo aftermarket set up with just a normal non fuel inrichment pump, they were only designed to push 6 or 7 P.S.I. it would work well that way also! as far as the ECO diesel motor i don't have any knowledge of what materials was used in that engine? somebody else will need to inlighten us on that i don't know ? i never owned one! i assume there would be no problem depends if you run an LDA and and it had heat resistance materials to handle the heat from the extra fuel from the LDA if you ran one on that engine if you didn't run one and just used the supercharger inplace of the turbo that would work just as well too! I think you can go wild to mild depending on the fuel inrichment you use! thanks Duane
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Above all else, and most importantly, if you do this, you could, with out any mental reservation, install the KOMPRESSOR badge of the back of a supercharged Mercedes on your truck.
As a mater of fact, I'm afraid I'll have to insist that you put that badge on the back of your ride when you do this.
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why give it away?! use a normal diesel badge and let the charger do the talkin :D
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why give it away?! use a normal diesel badge and let the charger do the talkin :D
I agree with blacktieTD ! I'm an old school streetracer from calif. If you want to know what i got under the hood you gotta find out the hard way !!! makes for better conversation when you see it in action anyways! thanks Duane
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Typically, with cars/trucks like ours, you have to exibit overt actions to instigate a stoplight drag race.
The KOMPRESSOR badge will invite alot of action.
And you have to admit KOMPRESSOR CADDY would look infinately cool.
PS the ECO motor has all the TD goodness with the wrong pump. i have yet to see one wear out. I suspect hozing down the pistons with oil from the bottom, and exess air with no extra fuel in the combustion chambers makes these thing outlast the body every time.
Formula: ECO motor + Kompressor @ 20 PSI + TD Pump = alot of good things.
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well i'm gonna really disagree with you on that because i have another caddy that displays = nitrious injected/turbo/stroker badges on the fenders and a N.O.S tank in the bed and no one in thier right mind challenges me to a race and i live here by hwy 100 here in milwaukee where all the kids hang out and they don't want nothing to do with racing my truck they will do it for nothing but when i ask to put some funds up they chicken out! with badges and looking tricked out really intimidates them! now with my plane jane truck they are always provoking a race from me! and it just looks stock besides the rims so the sleeper look is the way to go if you want to wake somebody up with what you got under the hood! i also know ways to make the exaust to do the talking for me and i'm not talking about clamping a coffee can underneath it either ! i'm talking about making the exaust sound deep and throaty by building my own baffeling in the system. you would never guess it was a 4 cylinder by the way my other truck sounds ! sound more like a V8!
and thats what i think! thanks Duane
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speculating that you would use the waterpump pulley as an idler pulley and move the alternator below the charger in front of the waterpump.
not sure about clearance issues with the charger and the injection pump, i'm sure the rad makes it close. might get two or three inches from getting a shorter rad and putting it recessed in the rad support.
you can run two intakes on a G60 which is a huge plus. i'd try to fit two factory airboxes with factory filters. would breath better than a cone style filter but keep the particles out. a ported charger would pump a ton of air this way.
the outlet of the charger is already near the front of the car that helps for intercooling.
normal G60
(http://www.voiddesign.com/pic/serp.gif)
16v G60
(http://upload.the-corrado.net/files/19/belt%20routing%20small.JPG)
(http://www.voiddesign.com/pic/charger.jpg)
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if i was doing it i would use one of those magna chargers that bolt on the back of the head in place of the intake manifold, this would make it super easy has nothing else would change, the only downside is that you can't run an intercooler. but it would make for an easy install
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if i was doing it i would use one of those magna chargers that bolt on the back of the head in place of the intake manifold, this would make it super easy has nothing else would change, the only downside is that you can't run an intercooler. but it would make for an easy install
Do you know how many magna chargers are left in existance? I know of 3 maybe 4! those are more fore a collector! i would not want to use one for everyday use ! now that was the best dam forcedinduction equipment ever made in my opinion!! but i gotta settle for a G60 they are more plentyfull and parts are ore available! thanks Duane
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doesnt sound crazy to me.
do you have a thread or page going for that Brendan? :D
Nope. It will be a while still. I'll start tearing down the TDI engine here soon and get that part out of the way. I still need a lot of stuff though, an 02J shifter, an INJECTION PUMP, turbo, supercharger, etc... and my money situation is not great right now. I have a job prospect in the works though so hopefully that will speed up the process. :)
There will be a thread, that's for sure.
It's going in my '81 Scirocco 'S that I recently bought, as it's much nicer than my '84.
(http://picasaweb.google.com/bgdoyle/1981SciroccoS/photo#5062949526459881298)
Edit: Well, I've tried 25 different times to post an image and apparently that doesent work anymore.....
Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
81 Scirocco 'S w/ 3A & 4k
01 Jeep TJ 4.0
..And a TDI engine going in something...
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Hey blacktieTDI tell me about those pics. you posted ! Is that something you own? do you know where to get those aluminum pullys? crank, waterpump?I noticed in that picture that the surpintine belt interfears with the belt tensonier pivot bolt. i remember when i put that 1.8G60 motor in my other truck i had to do away with powersteering and A/C and had to make my own surpintine pully for the waterpump!that was tricky but made it and it works well! i was looking at the motor the other day and it looks like the brackets will bolt up directly on the block near the flywheel side with no problem. but will still need to modify for vacume pump return.the belt side i will not know till i have things apart and ready for mock-up and of course i will need to modify the core support just like i did before when i put the 1.8G60 motor in my other truck . the alternator will proably have to go on the bottom just like whats in the picture! and save the traditional alternator spot for the injection pump! I got a feelin that the supercharger brackets will easily bolt right up with little or no modification! also i have found that getting just the right size surpintine belt can be challenging! hard to find half sizes!I remember how odd i felt going to the part store with a surpintine belt pinched off with a pair of visegrips and telling the counter guy to don't ask me year and make !it almost takes an ack of god to get them to find a part without looking in the computer or books! well let me know about the pullys thanks Duane
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that belt photo i found online. it is of a 16v with a G60 conversion. i believe it is bahn brenner's 16vG60 kit but that's just speculation. i agree that the belt routing would be similar on a diesel G60, just simpler.
that last pic is my old G60 charger opened up a tad :lol: to motivate you!
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There is a guy on the vortex that sells a alternator from a GM and it fits very nicely in place of the ac compressor!! about the twin intakes on the g60....it has been proven that the charger itself is not capable of moving enuf air for the twim intakes to be worth it.
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g-spec: is that with a stock charger or ported? what size pulley? i like the twin intake for the fact that you can run two OE air filters and still get excellent flow, but filter out all the tiny particles that cone filters allow in to the charger.
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If you like the idea then go for it....I was just saying that no matter how well it is ported and how small the pulley one intake is more than enuf. Two OE air boxes would take up a lot of room possibly making it hard to run intercooler piping. I actually want to see someone pull this off...cause I think the car would make good power thru the whole rpm band. One thing I would be worried about runnign the g60 on a diesel is the vibration....running a one way pulley would most likely help and would be a good idea....the g60 is very fragile in that way....thats why all the aftermarket chips move the red line to about 7000 so that you dont hit the rev limiter cause it can damage the charger.
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can you give me a link to this data? i'm intested to see. i tried two intakes on my old corrado but i didnt have it set up like i wanted. i had narrow intake pipes and cone filters -- not an inner pipe diameter the same as the charger inlet diameter and no OE airboxes, as desired.
it comes down the volume of air that can theoretically pass through a completely ported charger with no air filter at maximum (safe) charger RPMs. from there reasonable compromises could be made... ie: type of filter(s) and what size of pulley to achieve maximum charger RPM as maximum engine RPM is reached. this would allow for maximum flow without needlessly harming the charger (ie particles, over-rev). please send me a link or some data if you can.
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ps: max charger rpm = 14,800
(with standard G60 belts/pulleys)
(http://www.matey-matey.com/images/g-werks/DSC00253.jpg)
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One thing I would be worried about runnign the g60 on a diesel is the vibration....running a one way pulley would most likely help and would be a good idea....the g60 is very fragile in that way....thats why all the aftermarket chips move the red line to about 7000 so that you dont hit the rev limiter cause it can damage the charger.
Maybe also isolate the 'charger with some rubberesque bushings to counter the vibrations? A one way pulley and some isolating bushings, should cut down on a good deal of the vibration problems I'd think.
I'm kinda interested in the supercharger idea myself, but take it a step further and put it on an electric clutch as well. It's there when you need boost now, but for just cruising along the highway you can flick a switch and take it offline to reduce drag on the engine.
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One thing I would be worried about runnign the g60 on a diesel is the vibration....running a one way pulley would most likely help and would be a good idea....the g60 is very fragile in that way....thats why all the aftermarket chips move the red line to about 7000 so that you dont hit the rev limiter cause it can damage the charger.
Maybe also isolate the 'charger with some rubberesque bushings to counter the vibrations? A one way pulley and some isolating bushings, should cut down on a good deal of the vibration problems I'd think.
I'm kinda interested in the supercharger idea myself, but take it a step further and put it on an electric clutch as well. It's there when you need boost now, but for just cruising along the highway you can flick a switch and take it offline to reduce drag on the engine.
i would think that the G60 supercharger would absolutely need the one way pulley... just imagine the carnage if the supercharger was spinning full load and the motor cuts out... ouch!
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if i was doing it i would use one of those magna chargers that bolt on the back of the head in place of the intake manifold, this would make it super easy has nothing else would change, the only downside is that you can't run an intercooler. but it would make for an easy install
Do you know how many magna chargers are left in existance? I know of 3 maybe 4! those are more fore a collector! i would not want to use one for everyday use ! now that was the best dam forcedinduction equipment ever made in my opinion!! but i gotta settle for a G60 they are more plentyfull and parts are ore available! thanks Duane
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3203070
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It's funny that you sent me that (northernRD) I know Corey that has the other one for sale! his is in bueatifull shape! Corey keeps me posted on where they are all at! Thanks Duane
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It's funny that you sent me that (northernRD) I know Corey that has the other one for sale! his is in bueatifull shape! Corey keeps me posted on where they are all at! Thanks Duane
I myself still have an actual add and sales lit for that particular kit SOMEwhere,...
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http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3203070
dan always had all the best stuff. i don't know how he does it. that charger is very expensive and i'd be afraid to drive it hard with such a collector piece at stake. that would obviously be a simpler way to accomplish a SC diesel... who's got $2k US to spare? lets see it done! if you don't blow up the charger you could always turn around and sell it............ :)
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Why not try a G40 charger off a Polo? mine produces just shy of a bar of boost on a 65mm pulley and its smaller in size that a G60, plus you can modify them to run a single inlet and blank off the other
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Why not try a G40 charger off a Polo? mine produces just shy of a bar of boost on a 65mm pulley and its smaller in size that a G60, plus you can modify them to run a single inlet and blank off the other
Where to get one on this side of that Atlantic though?
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I like this idea 8) I posted about it on Vortex but just got flamed a lot, even tho Volvo Penta do exactly this setup on their large marine engines.
You'd definitely need to run supercharger and turbo since the G60 can only about a bar of boost before it explodes.
But, how about using an Eaton from a Mercedes? They are cheap, plentiful, smaller than the G60 and considerably more robust. Plus the M62 from the E & C230 comes with a magnetic clutch! Only makes a bar or so tho but still...
Anyone got any ideas how you would switch from one to the other? I can't work out how to switch the blower off when the turbo is up to speed without losing boost. Also not sure how to do the plumbing since when you switch the blower off it will block the airflow to the turbo. How does the twincharged Golf 1.4 do it :?:
Fab idea tho! Especially since I have an M62 in the shed :D
Mikki x
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I recorded the max boost on my G60 car after the charger had undergone 'stage 4 porting' with a K&N air filter and 68mm pulley as 18psi, approx 1.25bar. The original VW Digifant I software is really only capable of handling boost of up to 1 bar, maybe thats where you're getting the 1 bar number from? That was reliable and repeatable no problem, sometimes 19psi and I'm sure it could have been pushed harder. I don't think too many of us would really need any more than that so I'd like to see someone do it even with just the G60, no turbo. But a turbo as well would be great of course, that just complicates things a fair bit.
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1.25? that's 'about' a bar :lol: ish!
The 'about a bar' came from Jabbasport in the UK, the theory being that you can only spin the charger so fast before it goes pop, and that limit will make about a bar or so. So a stage 4 making 1.25 is about right.
How much power would a TDI make on 18psi? Don't you need rather more than that for real fun numbers?
The Eaton can make 18psi too, although it gets rather toasty at that sort of pressure! Thats why I'm thinking twincharged - lower boost from the Eaton and a hyuuuge Holset 8)
Mikki x
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well i originally posted for use on a 1.6 TD where there is nearly no combustion area ,paper thin,flat top pistons! everyone has been giving #'s for gas motor where there is a larg combustion chamber. how much air can be pushed into the TD chamber? it don't need much in this application ! just like the turbo has a waste gate and the engine don't use all the air anyways! the idea for this is putting air and fuel right in at the start! hopping for better responce at low end instead of waiting for the turbo to spool up!i think you would not need to port for a 1.6 but for a 1.9 isn't there a champer in the top of the pistons ? if so then i think the porting on the G60 would be great to fill the chamber in the combustion area on the 1.9TDI can you post a pic. of that M62 in your shed MIKKIJAYNE i would like to see what one looks like?
and what did a K26 turbo come off of? i found 5 of them in my basement and i don't remember where they came from? thanks Duane
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Where to get one on this side of that Atlantic though?
If you ask then i'll sort one out and send one over! they arent hard to find!
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Where to get one on this side of that Atlantic though?
If you ask then i'll sort one out and send one over! they arent hard to find!
Really? More details please! :twisted:
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The Eaton M62:
(http://www.polov8.co.uk/images/M62_1.JPG)
The clutch & pulley is removed here but its about 85mm dia. The outlet is on top, and inlet on the end opposite the pulley. Its about 23cm long, 18 wide, and 14 high. I'm pretty sure it would mount up using the aircon bracket, but I haven't mocked anything up yet.
Its less than half the size of the G60 and doesn't need an oil feed. It is considerably less efficient than a G60 though, and needs a water-air cooler at high boost levels (>1 bar). I don't think it would be very good as a straight turbo replacement, but it would work very well in conjunction with a big laggy turbo to fill in the bottom end.
Mikki x
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Where to get one on this side of that Atlantic though?
If you ask then i'll sort one out and send one over! they arent hard to find!
Really? More details please! :twisted:
I've got 2 spare ones in pieces - 1 spare good one and 1 on the car. plus i pick them up off german ebay for about £100 or so when they come up as people are forever blowing them up!
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and what did a K26 turbo come off of? i found 5 of them in my basement and i don't remember where they came from? thanks Duane
Those things are junk, better send them to me to dispose of for ya ;) at least one anyway..
dan
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The Eaton M62:
(http://www.polov8.co.uk/images/M62_1.JPG)
The clutch & pulley is removed here but its about 85mm dia. The outlet is on top, and inlet on the end opposite the pulley. Its about 23cm long, 18 wide, and 14 high. I'm pretty sure it would mount up using the aircon bracket, but I haven't mocked anything up yet.
Its less than half the size of the G60 and doesn't need an oil feed. It is considerably less efficient than a G60 though, and needs a water-air cooler at high boost levels (>1 bar). I don't think it would be very good as a straight turbo replacement, but it would work very well in conjunction with a big laggy turbo to fill in the bottom end.
Mikki x
hey thanks for the picture ! thats a really nice unit you have there!now the
next picture i'd like to see it on something! :lol: That reminds me of a autotech magnacharger . i'm not sure if any of those made it to europe? the original guy that designed them for the VW rabbits / golf's sold the patent to someone that now i guess makes them for harley davidsons motorcycles now ! and that supercharger did not need a oil line and the g-ladders were teflon coated the only downfall with the autotech supercharger there was no intercooler but it did work very well! well keep me posted when you get that on a project in the future thanks Duane
Hey MontanaGTD Iv'e never seen a G40 supercharger ! do they look like G60's just smaller? do ya have a pic. of one for me to see? I wonder why the G40 never made it west to the USA? does anyone know the answer to this? thanks Duane
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and what did a K26 turbo come off of? i found 5 of them in my basement and i don't remember where they came from? thanks Duane
Those things are junk, better send them to me to dispose of for ya ;) at least one anyway..
dan
how did you know they were all junk? well 3 have shaft play with no housing
or trim damage that i can see! one with bent shaft.looks like new! and the other the shaft turns stiff! are the K26 from a audi 5000? i can dispose of them here for 45 bucks a piece. they are good enough shape to be rebuilt I guess i can dispose of them anywhere that recycles well let me know thanks Duane
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I ran across an engine at work that has a supercharger and a turbo configuration i'm gonna snap a pic. of it tomorrow and post it ! the motor is a detroit diesel cable tugger thats on a barge i'm working on. so look for the pic. tomorrow nite thanks Duane
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Are you sure that is not a two cycle marine diesel? In which case the supercharger is needed for crankcase scavenging. It is a whole different set up.
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The Eaton M62:
(http://www.polov8.co.uk/images/M62_1.JPG)
The clutch & pulley is removed here but its about 85mm dia. The outlet is on top, and inlet on the end opposite the pulley. Its about 23cm long, 18 wide, and 14 high. I'm pretty sure it would mount up using the aircon bracket, but I haven't mocked anything up yet.
Its less than half the size of the G60 and doesn't need an oil feed. It is considerably less efficient than a G60 though, and needs a water-air cooler at high boost levels (>1 bar). I don't think it would be very good as a straight turbo replacement, but it would work very well in conjunction with a big laggy turbo to fill in the bottom end.
How much$$$$?????
N.
Mikki x
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I ran across an engine at work that has a supercharger and a turbo configuration i'm gonna snap a pic. of it tomorrow and post it ! the motor is a detroit diesel cable tugger thats on a barge i'm working on. so look for the pic. tomorrow nite thanks Duane
Volvo do this with their marine diesels too:
(http://www.polov8.co.uk/images/kamd300.JPG)
Volvo Penta KAMD300 marine engine. 24 valve straight 6, making 285bhp @ 3800 rpm from 3.8l
The Oguro supercharger is at the top right, turbo top left.
Northern RD - the M62 usually sells on ebay UK for £200 ish - $400?
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I ran across an engine at work that has a supercharger and a turbo configuration i'm gonna snap a pic. of it tomorrow and post it ! the motor is a detroit diesel cable tugger thats on a barge i'm working on. so look for the pic. tomorrow nite thanks Duane
Volvo do this with their marine diesels too:
(http://www.polov8.co.uk/images/kamd300.JPG)
Volvo Penta KAMD300 marine engine. 24 valve straight 6, making 285bhp @ 3800 rpm from 3.8l
The Oguro supercharger is at the top right, turbo top left.
Northern RD - the M62 usually sells on ebay UK for £200 ish - $400?
Nutz, I`ll have to sell the dag AND the GF to afford one,.... :( :(
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Any ideas on how to get clearance for the pump to fit with the G60 mounted on it's original bracket. Looks like the alternator is in the way...
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well for me this project is all talk no action so far! I've only been collecting for this project only for a year now ! I have a 1.6 TD long block and injection pump,I have a G60 but it's still sitting in a complete corrado! so i have not tried any of the physical mock up yet! i've gotten alot ideas from this board and i don't think this project will be as hard as it sounds! also i'm still looking for a sutable Mk1 pickup to do all of this too! I really want a 80 or an 83 those are the only 2 years i don't have in my collection! so if i find one of them in the near future that will speed up the project also!well as of now i can't answer if the supercharger will clear or even bolt up next to thr I.P. unless someone else has one to try with to see if it does?I'm still working on getting the pics. i took of blower and turbo diesel motor at work but i will have them posted soon!! thanks Duane
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Well by this weekend I hope to have "modified" enough of the G60 mounting bracket to have them play nice. I have a mk2 pump bracket, mk1 pump brackets, AAZ pump brackets and all the G60 mounting hardware. I figure with a dead diesel block in my basement or the one in the garage I should be able to figure out how to physically fit them to the engine. Plumbing and belt routing other than the IP stuff will be interesting...hope to have it mocked up with pictures, by saturday...
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all right Mk2Fanatic,
good to see that someone has a real interest in this project! you will be a real pioneer with some breakthrough info on this! you will proabably push the view counter over 3 thousand by sunday!! I'm looking forward to see what you come up with! and thanks for taking this a step closer to realiaty for everyone that has an interest in this!!
thanks Duane
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WellI have gotten an AAZ Injection pump bracket, modified g60 bracket, a 1.6 td pump and a g60 to actually fit together. I still have to trim out the area for the original g60 tensioner set up in order for the IP pulley to mount. As the motor currently sits everything is bolted on. I plan to make a bracket mounted on the block (Where MK1 style p-side motor mount goes) to use an A4 1.8t serp belt tensioner. The normal G60 AC position will be occupied by the serpentine belt driven alternator. No AC, No PS, just G60 and water pump. I've drawn out a diagram of how my belts will be mounted. I will Definately have pics posted within the next couple of days.
As for plumbing, it will go: Air filter to G60 to stock g60 Intercooler, mounted below battery. Out from IC to turbo out from turbo to my current MKV TDI intercooler (currently on car). From MKV IC to 1.8GTI(MK1) gas intake Manifold with a modified G60 inlet adapter. The two intercoolers are to reduce pumping hot air from one charger to the other.
I figure running a G60 with a 68mm pulley, a giles super pump, PP IDI cam, 3" DP and stage 3 1.9 td head with a k26/k27 hybrid (.63AR) Mercedes 300TD injectors, I should get to at least 170Whp with At least the same amount of torque as B6 Passat TDI (210-220ft-lbs)...Boost off the line and a nice torquey powerband with almost a flat torque curve from idle to 5000rpm...
So now any insights, ideas or flaming may now begin...
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I can't wait to see some pictures and videos :twisted:
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The reasoning behind the idea for an A4 1.8t serp belt tensioner, is for the G60/alternator setup. Because of the portion of the G60 Bracket that is removed, there is no longer anywhere to mount a tensioner to tension the charger belt; the A4 20V uses a nice little 2 bolt tensioner that is held stationary on one end, and uses the stationary end as a pivot to set tension for the AC system. By mounting it approx. 1 1/4" away from the block, it will sit inline with the stock pulleys, and allow tensioning of the charger and alternator.
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Go to it man! You're getting there faster than me! :D Hope it all works! Your setup sounds like it should do well. I wouldn't worry about some sort of bypass for the supercharger, even with the charger turning at full song and the turbo at full "suck", I doubt there would be enough restriction to cause any problems. I think the only reason why the (very few) OEM setups like this have a bypass is to help overall engine efficiency by reducing the drag caused by the charger when the turbo can take over. The way I see it, the turbo will pull enough of the drag off of the charger that it really won't matter anyway. :P
Pics!
Brendan
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Pics pics pics pics pics!!!!!
It'll be fascinating to see how this works. I've always wondered about a bypass valve in this setup, so I'm extra keen to see how it works without one :)
On and btw - pics please :D
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i wonder if you could use some type of servo setup from a duct system to re-route the air. (of course the ducting would need to be drastically reduced, but the servo setup is all that you want... oh and it should be 12v too!) plus have a clutched supercharger to kick off when the turbo starts producing 5 psi or so with a hobbs pressure switch 8) or when the car is stationary (go pedal is released)
for N/A's with the supercharger, it would be nice to have the cvt system like on the snowmobiles... as revs increase, so would the boost! (most definitely too complicated to create... any engineers out there? :lol: )
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As promised...
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812161916.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812162018.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812162071.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812162095.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812162083.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812162169.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812162114.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812162196.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812162144.jpg)
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pictures don't work :(
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Fixed...and a couple of the car that will be getting a Twin Charged Diesel 1.9
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812400542.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812400599.jpg)
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/18812400534.jpg)
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Ahh good job Mk2Fanatic!! looks like a Mki diesel I.P. and motor mount will work too!! I just thought of something :idea: how about using the G60 intake plennium that has that air deverting throttle body! somehow getting the thing to work in conjuction with the throttle cable on the I.P. ? to me that sounds like a good way to put air when and where you want it!!
ME i'm trying to come up of a way to change the compression ratio to handle the air on a continious basis and a pump that does the same !! has anyone thought about this? thats my reason for using the G60 S.C. is taking advantage air that it provides from the start!do ya think i should use pistons from something like a pumpduese that has chamber in the top of the piston?
I need some ideas for what to do with the head IDI-TDI can i convert one to the other ? let me know what you guys think!! Thanks Duane
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i can't wait to hear more info on this project!!!!
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Maybe it's the camera angles but it looks like the timing belt is not going to fit on there?
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Maybe it's the camera angles but it looks like the timing belt is not going to fit on there?
it looks like the timing belt will fit, but maybe not the timing cover.
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To me it looks like it will hit here
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/dual.jpg)
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ah you're right... well looks like more fab time :(
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To me it looks like it will hit here
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/dual.jpg)
As I get further into the project, I will clearance the bracket as required to clear the belt int the area you've highlighted. As for a belt cover, I've got an idea possibly a 2 piece metal one that will be part of the mount for the charger tensioner.
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Well in that case it looks to be coming along quite nicely :D
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too bad you didn't use a block that had a crank with pullys and intermediate shaft so you can dry fit the timming belt and even do more with the serpintine to see how that would work? i'm curious to see the tensioner that you are using ? that jetta you got are you gonna try the G60 on that car?
are you gonna post more pics. of your progress with it ?
thanks Duane
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too bad you didn't use a block that had a crank with pullys and intermediate shaft so you can dry fit the timming belt and even do more with the serpintine to see how that would work? i'm curious to see the tensioner that you are using ? that jetta you got are you gonna try the G60 on that car?
are you gonna post more pics. of your progress with it ?
thanks Duane
A diagram showing the tensioner. It's Item 12. Used on the AEB 1.8t Motor.
(http://img2.putfile.com/main/7/19023025810.jpg)
The actual motor that is going in to my Jetta (the one from the pics - the car that is), still resides in the donor, a 95 passat td. The motor comes out this weekend, so i can get it rebuilt and finish rounding up all my parts. As a VW tech by day, I see enough of this stuff in my sleep, that I visualize first then dive in with both feet. I'm planning on having this as an up and running project by the end of August (depends on how fast I can get all of the money and cylinder head to Dave at PP) I should be able to have some pics with a belt and intermediate shaft mocked up by the weekend, just a matter of getting time to find my spares and sliding them in for some more camera time. As for the timing belt cover/bracket, I have a buddy who has a machine shop and took my drawings as well as my 02A flywheel to work some magic on.
Other plans as part of this project:
-full cable shift swap(02A) with a lightened flywheel and 4 puck kevlar clutch
-quaife differential
-my previously discussed engine mods(PP cam, bigger turbo, PP head work, GTI gas intake, ARP head studs and Orings, Giles super pump, PP 3" DP)
-5 lug swap front and rear with 11.1"/9.4" discs
-Vmaxx Coilovers, poly Urethane suspension, 25mm rear bar(hollow)
As I get further into this project, I will most definately be snapping pictures as I go. As for the jetta she's an 86 with one previous owner and almost 800000Km on her. Always garage kept, never winter driven with EVERY receipt from the day she was new. Few little blemishes hera and there, but overall a good 8 out of 10. Every option but sunroof, PS and AC. Previous owner was german and didn't want to wait to have a car built so took the demo home the day of his test drive and never gave her back. Sorry for rambling on, but as fellow VDub owners, you know how it gets (my 19th VW and 34th vehicle ever owned)
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Wow! Looking good :D
Is the G60 still in the same place it normally is? It looks like it is, but just checking :wink:
Mikki x
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Wow! Looking good :D
Is the G60 still in the same place it normally is? It looks like it is, but just checking :wink:
Mikki x
Yes it is
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Great work!
I'm onto a quite similar engine build,.. Putting a G40 charger on a 1.4 non-turbo diesel.
Wondering who will run it first: I'm putting my dollars on you!
Haven't updated the topic recently, but here's a link anyway:
http://www.volksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22161&page=1&pp=40
I've had my G40 charger rebuild, and I've got about 80% of the hosing and tubing laying around now,.. but I have to ' adjust ' some panelwork, to fit the IC and tubing/hosing: Since the Polo Diesel engine isn't turbo charged, and a turbo-version of this small 1.4 diesel wasn't ever produced I need to borrow a lot of stuff from the non so common Polo 2 GT G40 (very rare: A Golf Rallye is a mass-produced compared to a Polo 2 GT G40)
Anyway: Keep us posted!
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Great work!
I'm onto a quite similar engine build,.. Putting a G40 charger on a 1.4 non-turbo diesel.
Wondering who will run it first: I'm putting my dollars on you!
Haven't updated the topic recently, but here's a link anyway:
http://www.volksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22161&page=1&pp=40
I've had my G40 charger rebuild, and I've got about 80% of the hosing and tubing laying around now,.. but I have to ' adjust ' some panelwork, to fit the IC and tubing/hosing: Since the Polo Diesel engine isn't turbo charged, and a turbo-version of this small 1.4 diesel wasn't ever produced I need to borrow a lot of stuff from the non so common Polo 2 GT G40 (very rare: A Golf Rallye is a mass-produced compared to a Polo 2 GT G40)
Anyway: Keep us posted!
damn, I HATE being on this side of the Atlantic,...... :( :(
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Great work!
I'm onto a quite similar engine build,.. Putting a G40 charger on a 1.4 non-turbo diesel.
Wow thats some rare stuff you have there! Good luck with the build. Fab that we have both G40 and G60 builds going on :D
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With the mods it should be capable of doing a cold start on 100% vegetable oil.. in mid winter (and with the electric pre-heater, heat-exchanger, huge fuellines and isolation it'll be sweden capable )
um... i would only imagine what the congealed veg would do inside the motor... :shock:
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Great work!
I'm onto a quite similar engine build,.. Putting a G40 charger on a 1.4 non-turbo diesel.
Wondering who will run it first: I'm putting my dollars on you!
Haven't updated the topic recently, but here's a link anyway:
http://www.volksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22161&page=1&pp=40
I've had my G40 charger rebuild, and I've got about 80% of the hosing and tubing laying around now,.. but I have to ' adjust ' some panelwork, to fit the IC and tubing/hosing: Since the Polo Diesel engine isn't turbo charged, and a turbo-version of this small 1.4 diesel wasn't ever produced I need to borrow a lot of stuff from the non so common Polo 2 GT G40 (very rare: A Golf Rallye is a mass-produced compared to a Polo 2 GT G40)
Anyway: Keep us posted!
Interesting looking build. My next project after my tdi swap in my other jetta, is to bring something over from europe and do a swap; possibly a TDI Rallye golf or golf country...You guys get all the fun toys...
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veggie-power
um... i would only imagine what the congealed veg would do inside the motor... :shock:
I know: I've seen sponges created in the oilpan due to polymerisation..
But it's a IDI engine, thus I do not expect to much problems,.. It's the Di engines that have the unburned veggie oil drapping down the pistons that causes the veggie + mineral oils to mix.. and i'm going to run ridiculous high injection pressures, so even at cold starts all veggie-oil should 'vaporate'
The thing I'm worried about is the idle-pressure: There's no blow-off-boost-valve or bypass available: all air from the charger has to go into the engine: Will it idle? Will it run? Since there's no throttle-valves involved, I don't expect any big pressures to build up at idle, but still:Without a switchable pully or bypass: will it work?
Other thing is : I do not have a pressure adjustable pump like the TD's normally do.. and since the diesel pump is rotating the otherway around to the 'normal' Golf diesels, I can't just change to a TD pump.. I remember the USA Eco diesels: the do not have a Pressure-enrichment thingy either do they?
I'm thinking off enrichment 'all the way', since the charger will allways run, and thus will allways give an about equil amount of forced airflow at any revolution
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veggie-power
um... i would only imagine what the congealed veg would do inside the motor... :shock:
I know: I've seen sponges created in the oilpan due to polymerisation..
But it's a IDI engine, thus I do not expect to much problems,.. It's the Di engines that have the unburned veggie oil drapping down the pistons that causes the veggie + mineral oils to mix.. and i'm going to run ridiculous high injection pressures, so even at cold starts all veggie-oil should 'vaporate'
The thing I'm worried about is the idle-pressure: There's no blow-off-boost-valve or bypass available: all air from the charger has to go into the engine: Will it idle? Will it run? Since there's no throttle-valves involved, I don't expect any big pressures to build up at idle, but still:Without a switchable pully or bypass: will it work?
Other thing is : I do not have a pressure adjustable pump like the TD's normally do.. and since the diesel pump is rotating the otherway around to the 'normal' Golf diesels, I can't just change to a TD pump.. I remember the USA Eco diesels: the do not have a Pressure-enrichment thingy either do they?
I'm thinking off enrichment 'all the way', since the charger will allways run, and thus will allways give an about equil amount of forced airflow at any revolution
what you could do is turn up your fuel screw and reduce idle speed to compensate. the charger couldn't be making more than a few psi at idle, but still that would make a bit of a difference.
one thing to think about, is going with veg injection nozzles. they are a bit bigger to flow that thick stuff. otherwise it might throw your timing off by a little bit. i'm not sure who sells it though, just remember seeing it online.
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@ OP: Sorry for the OT :) Will keep things short :)
one thing to think about, is going with veg injection nozzles. they are a bit bigger to flow that thick stuff. otherwise it might throw your timing off by a little bit. i'm not sure who sells it though, just remember seeing it online.
I'm using special injectors, on 245 bar, with longer 'Bosch Duratherm Chromium' glowplugs, will alter timing to 'advance' (due to the higher opening pressure) and will open the enrichment screw albit (for veggie oil contains more bound oxygen, for injectors to give more on short opening, and to compensate charger filling up cilinders :)
I found a BOV 'DIY' manual, that I might just re-mod to regulate the boost pressure a bit..
@ OP: How's your setup dealing with the idle-pressure? is that A/C pully something you plan on 'from starters' or are you thinking of modding this inplace in a later stage? Please inform on the first test run ASAP :)
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higher opening pressures mean that the timing will be a little more retarded (since it will take the pump that little bit of extra time to build the required pressure to open the injector)
i would say that to have a perfectly running veg car, you should get one of those diesel timing units that time the motor to the actual injection of the fuel from the injector. (i think Dr. Diesel has one of these units)
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higher opening pressures mean that the timing will be a little more retarded (since it will take the pump that little bit of extra time to build the required pressure to open the injector)
i would say that to have a perfectly running veg car, you should get one of those diesel timing units that time the motor to the actual injection of the fuel from the injector. (i think Dr. Diesel has one of these units)
I think you got the retarding bit mixed up:
Since the pump will take some extra time to build the required pressure, one should *advance* the pumptiming: so the pump starts a bit earlier building pressure,.. and still injects just at the right moment.
I haven't got a Dr-Diesel-timing-thingy (yet), but I'm hoping my father-in-law-2-b will have grown enough experience over the last 30 years working on farmer-diesels :) (he allready check my current engine with his fingerspitzengefuhl on the injector-HP-lines :) ) But for now: I'll leave this topic to the OP, as far as my interference didn't ruine it allready
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I think you both are saying the same thing.
jtanguay is saying it will be retarded if you don't advance it and you are saying you will need to advance it to make up for the higher breaking pressures
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higher opening pressures mean that the timing will be a little more retarded (since it will take the pump that little bit of extra time to build the required pressure to open the injector)
i would say that to have a perfectly running veg car, you should get one of those diesel timing units that time the motor to the actual injection of the fuel from the injector. (i think Dr. Diesel has one of these units)
I think you got the retarding bit mixed up:
Since the pump will take some extra time to build the required pressure, one should *advance* the pumptiming: so the pump starts a bit earlier building pressure,.. and still injects just at the right moment.
I haven't got a Dr-Diesel-timing-thingy (yet), but I'm hoping my father-in-law-2-b will have grown enough experience over the last 30 years working on farmer-diesels :) (he allready check my current engine with his fingerspitzengefuhl on the injector-HP-lines :) ) But for now: I'll leave this topic to the OP, as far as my interference didn't ruine it allready
well if you need to advance the timing to compensate for higher breaking pressures, then i'm pretty much bang on with what i said :wink:. plus, as Libbybapa has stated before, the thicker veg fuel will also alter timing due to it being more viscous. that is the main reason that i recommended using one of those mechanical diesel timing tools, so you can find out exactly when the fuel is being injected. i'm not sure if you really want higher injection pressures when running veg. i would think you would want a larger nozzle to let it 'flow' easier and take less load off the injection pump.
moving on to 245 bar injectors... all i have to say is :shock:!!!
you're running DI pressures on an IDI pump????! Turbo Diesel injector opening pressure is 155 bar, whereas N/A is 130 bar. It could possibly work if you advance the timing enough. i can't remember who said it, but someone has tried different combinations of injector opening pressures, and found that N/A injectors @ 1.00mm timing gave the best mileage i believe.
good luck on the build!
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Superchargers are great for low end torque. My concern would be how to drive it off the end of the crankshaft. I just had to have my crank end rebuilt because of the key/gear coming loose. It would seem difficult to add yet another parasitic load to the crank nose. I am guessing that the supercharger is going to require 5-15 Hp to run based on other small supercharger setups. This is a lot in addition to the other loads such as intermediate shaft, water pump, alternator, power steering, AC compressor, already present. If it could be run off the back side of the engine where the turbo is to balance the stresses then this would make it more feasible but there isn't much room there. So my guess is that some re-engineering of the drive would be necessary. It would be interesting to see the performance of such a setup, lots of grunt off the line. Cheers Dan
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Forgot to add Detroit Diesels are mostly supercharged and turbocharged, this is mostly because they are 2 stroke diesels and the blower is used for scavenging but doesen't hurt power output. Dan
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Superchargers are great for low end torque. My concern would be how to drive it off the end of the crankshaft. I just had to have my crank end rebuilt because of the key/gear coming loose. It would seem difficult to add yet another parasitic load to the crank nose. I am guessing that the supercharger is going to require 5-15 Hp to run based on other small supercharger setups. This is a lot in addition to the other loads such as intermediate shaft, water pump, alternator, power steering, AC compressor, already present. If it could be run off the back side of the engine where the turbo is to balance the stresses then this would make it more feasible but there isn't much room there. So my guess is that some re-engineering of the drive would be necessary. It would be interesting to see the performance of such a setup, lots of grunt off the line. Cheers Dan
is that in a 1.6 you had crank issues with? i havent had any trouble with the 1.6s although there have been some reports. the 1.9s need modification even if they are stock.
to compensate for the drag of the supercharger (and to free up power even if you aren't supercharging) drop the AC and power streering. i think the OP said he wasn't going to run those but i don't feel like reading that over..
that quick mock up looks good. keep rockin :mrgreen:
oh PS: you might want to look into cogged belt setups to drive the S/C and accessories. the normal G60 kits are pricey. not sure if you could adapt one or if you'd have to start fresh. definitely something to look into and try to make work if possible. that was the next mod i had lined up for my G60. i was starting to get into serp belt slippage. with diesel torque this could also be an issue for you.
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Superchargers are great for low end torque. My concern would be how to drive it off the end of the crankshaft. I just had to have my crank end rebuilt because of the key/gear coming loose. It would seem difficult to add yet another parasitic load to the crank nose. I am guessing that the supercharger is going to require 5-15 Hp to run based on other small supercharger setups. This is a lot in addition to the other loads such as intermediate shaft, water pump, alternator, power steering, AC compressor, already present. If it could be run off the back side of the engine where the turbo is to balance the stresses then this would make it more feasible but there isn't much room there. So my guess is that some re-engineering of the drive would be necessary. It would be interesting to see the performance of such a setup, lots of grunt off the line. Cheers Dan
is that in a 1.6 you had crank issues with? i havent had any trouble with the 1.6s although there have been some reports. the 1.9s need modification even if they are stock.
to compensate for the drag of the supercharger (and to free up power even if you aren't supercharging) drop the AC and power streering. i think the OP said he wasn't going to run those but i don't feel like reading that over..
that quick mock up looks good. keep rockin :mrgreen:
oh PS: you might want to look into cogged belt setups to drive the S/C and accessories. the normal G60 kits are pricey. not sure if you could adapt one or if you'd have to start fresh. definitely something to look into and try to make work if possible. that was the next mod i had lined up for my G60. i was starting to get into serp belt slippage. with diesel torque this could also be an issue for you.
I know in my case, my t-belt will drive the normal stuff, and my serp belt will run the water pump, alternator, Gcharger, tensioner and to the crank itself. Almost the same number of accessories as a mk3 TD. Don't have AC and like the workout of manual racks. As for progress, I don't have pics, but i do have my mockup head with my manifolds and turbo mounted. Looks pretty formidable. Can't find my digi cam or i'd have pics to show. As for the clearance between the IM pulley/belt and IP gear, I have to shave 3mm off of the bracket to clear the belt in the following pic
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/dual.jpg)
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Project twin charged Jetta is in full swing... Just got another 86 td with 377K for 250$ Cad needs two doors and a respray. Mechanically sound. Guy stop driving it because one day it wouldn't start. Turns out it was leaking at the little black lines that connect the injectors. Pump would drain back because of the air leak. Fixed that and runs great. Came with a new spare alternator , clutch and starter... Now I can drive and work on my project car... Dropped the complete front suspension and all from the Jetta as well as the donor Passat.
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something like so: http://www.pitstopdevelopments.com/tbelt.htm
(http://www.pitstopdevelopments.com/images/toothed.jpg)
G60 kits are out there...
(nice score on that car heh)
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something like so: http://www.pitstopdevelopments.com/tbelt.htm
(http://www.pitstopdevelopments.com/images/toothed.jpg)
G60 kits are out there...
(nice score on that car heh)
Thanks about the jetta. (Now upto 4 diesels and 1 gasser) Interesting info on that belt drive setup...
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What about the issues that TDIs have with alternator pulleys? Some G-charger specialists frown on the toothed belt setup because of the increased shock load that they can put on the charger internals, and that's on a gas engine. I would think it would be even worse on a G60 TDI?
I would recommend against buying anything from that company in the link though. I've seen their work :x
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if the pulley's were one way only like the TDI alternator pulley, then i wouldn't be worried at all. no excessive shock load.
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Mm thats the problem - they aren't! You'd have to look at grafting the inside of an alternator pulley on to a G60 pulley :?
The theory goes that the standard serp belt has enough give in it to handle the shock load, but that the toothed belt, being designed to control precision items like camshafts doesn't have any give in it at all.
Of course we know the TDI serp belt does transmit shock loads with alternators, but the standard G60 seems quite happy with it on a gas engine. I wonder if the combination of TDI and toothed belt would be to much for it?
Of course there's no way of telling other than building one and seeing what it does :wink:
Mikki x
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can anyone post a pic. of a one way alternator pully ? i never seen one ! and that because i haven't gotten a rabbit pickup past '82 ! i've been stuck in the 80's for 20 years! L.O.L.!! i would appreciate it! and i think sticking with the stock surpintine belt makes better sence and keeping it simple along with the one way pulley!
Has anyone got some update DG60? pics.? something?
does anyone think that if lowering the compression ratio but keeping the air pumped in full time would make a difference or not? let me know if you don't understand the question? i'll try and explain my self better so anyone can understands it better! or maybe somebody else understands and can explain it better?
thanks Duane
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the pulley is only for serpentine setups. ebay has some photo's of them
(http://i23.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/8b/3f/b8a8_1.JPG)
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can anyone post a pic. of a one way alternator pully ? i never seen one ! and that because i haven't gotten a rabbit pickup past '82 ! i've been stuck in the 80's for 20 years! L.O.L.!! i would appreciate it! and i think sticking with the stock surpintine belt makes better sence and keeping it simple along with the one way pulley!
Has anyone got some update DG60? pics.? something?
does anyone think that if lowering the compression ratio but keeping the air pumped in full time would make a difference or not? let me know if you don't understand the question? i'll try and explain my self better so anyone can understands it better! or maybe somebody else understands and can explain it better?
thanks Duane
My project is moving along quite nicely. 1.9 being reassembled tomorrow. 1.8t A4 tensioner coming on monday. Hoping to get pics within the next week of how my project is doing...
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A lot of hrs at work, to order some parts. Other than getting my new sheet metal, not much to report.
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needs moar updates! :lol:
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Any news?
Still haven't found the time to fixup my 1.4-G40-engine; the base is there, but the list of small-parts needed seems to grow and grown.
Hopefully before the end of the year it will do it's first runs..
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does anyone got an update on thier supercharged diesel motor?
thanks Duane
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damn i'm gonna go get a part time job to fund this and beat you guys to it......... :wink:
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(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/LoN3R/100_4760_sized.jpg)
Have all the parts in the above picture for my g60 setup , but must be ran the way the lower picture is, to spin the water pump correctly. Will be assembling on my enine stand tonight.
(http://www.80tq.com/~wiz/gallery2/d/663-2/023.PNG)
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Hi Sylvester,
glad to see you back posting! i would like to see a pic of all of it on a diesel engine? as soon as you get it together? send me a P.M. so we can talk i don't have your # no more either? i retardidly deleted my saved messages on the forum a while back! well let me know how it goes!
thanks Duane
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Is that casting above the alternator the stock G60 super bracket? and does the alternator usually live there on the G60 as well, with stock brackets? I think a kompressor is my best option in a heavy vehicle (with electric clutch cutout for highway economy).
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Is that casting above the alternator the stock G60 super bracket? and does the alternator usually live there on the G60 as well, with stock brackets? I think a kompressor is my best option in a heavy vehicle (with electric clutch cutout for highway economy).
In the first pic yes. I believe the m62 would work in one of those brackets, with some sort of adapter and the right length pulley.
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Thanks. I'm actually thinking of adapting a Mercedes C32 Lysholm kompressor to it. I have to start somewhere bracket-wise, and need to move the alternator down there in any case. You have a cool project- best of luck.
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What about the Lysholms for all the dead G60s? They drive setup should be a bit easier. (though I'm just speculating)
I'm glad they have the quiet version now, but it would be rather sweet to have that Lysholm whine adding to the TD clatter and a big Holset whoosh.
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(http://www.polo86c.nl/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3788.0;attach=8644;image)
(http://www.polo86c.nl/~fileserver/Marcel-110707/10072007284.jpg)
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Wait...my head hurts from that pic. :?
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try this linkhttp://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11908http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v296/kolja1/Viteot/?action=view¤t=matskuu-1.flv
makes me even more confident that a G60 on a TD motor will work
thanks Duane
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Just to let you know,..
Mine is running since yesterday!
1.4 VW Diesel engine with G40 supercharger..
Will keep you posted!
(http://www.polo86c.nl/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3788.0;attach=12738;image)
(http://www.polo86c.nl/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3788.0;attach=12743;image)
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ahh your pics did not work!
hows the boost at low rpm's?
Duane
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I've been contemplating this and I have a g60 charger lined up...
hmmm
Orig thread: http://www.polo86c.nl/smf/index.php/topic,3788.795.html
Google and Bablefish are another option for english translation of the (very long) thread
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polo86c.nl%2Fsmf%2Findex.php%2Ftopic%2C3788.795.html&langpair=nl%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8
(page 31 has the pics near the bottom of the thread)
Looks awesome man!!! I was going to look more to a roots or lysholm charger, but I'll have to take a second look at the g60 now.
-Todd
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English thread:
http://www.volksforum.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=22161
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http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=GpRaGvgyqw0
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=vKB-I3fmzc8
run's and vibrates :)
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i wanted to bring this up and see if anyone has some news to share?
Duane
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For several years I've been on a list for using rotary engines in aircrafts. Those guys do some real engineering and real world testing.
What they've found is a super charger robs about 10% HP from the crank for your boost. The turbo will do the same boost from waste kinetic energy blowing our your exhaust. They have no requirement for a muffler, so back pressure is a larger factor for them than us.
Use a larger turbo compressor if you want more boost and you will not be wasting the 10% HP.
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i'm aware of that! does not sound like you read through the whole thread!?
what i'm after is low end boost! turbo will not do that! going to a larger turbo will take longer to spool up! VNT is the closest option but i like a challenge!
Duane
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For several years I've been on a list for using rotary engines in aircrafts. Those guys do some real engineering and real world testing.
What they've found is a super charger robs about 10% HP from the crank for your boost. The turbo will do the same boost from waste kinetic energy blowing our your exhaust. They have no requirement for a muffler, so back pressure is a larger factor for them than us.
Use a larger turbo compressor if you want more boost and you will not be wasting the 10% HP.
OH NO...here we go
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I agree that the G60 charger is reliable as anything as long as its looked after, 80 degrees oil temp before booting it up, yearly timing belt on the charger changes and good quality oil.
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I agree that the G60 charger is reliable as anything as long as its looked after, 80 degrees oil temp before booting it up, yearly timing belt on the charger changes and good quality oil.
now i like this guy! dug up this old thread and it was his first post!
welcome oldskool!! i'll mark this thread! oldskool joined nov 1 and this was his first post! :wink:
Duane
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i'm actually pulling a G60 motor out of a corrado that is the donor for my project! the body will have a new life in NY with a M-TDI trans plant!
that my update!
Duane