VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: oblique on July 11, 2017, 04:59:16 pm
-
So im pretty sure I have a sticky wastegate but while I have it out I want to service the rest of the turbo. problem is local shops either wont touch it because they cant replace the wastegate and others make no guarantees that theyll be able to service it.
Does anyone know a shop thats good with these? So far nothting in the Toronto area, only XSboost in Ohio is saying theyve had luck.
Alternatively, is there a relatively low-cost bolt-on replacement option? I dont want to fab anything and would prefer not to run external boost regulator, if possible. If I have to get small things like oil lines, etc. to make something work then thats ok.
-
I have a lead on a T3. Is it a direct bolt on? Are both oil lines different?
-
yes, the t3 bolts directly in place of a k24, down, pipe, oil feed, and oil drain are all the same. The t3 also has a non serviceable wg, but the t3 wastegate is much more reliable as long as it doesn't rust away.
-
Is there any way to tell the condition of the wastegate at point of purchase? Can a rebuilder clean/service a non functional wastegate? I got quoted $500CDN by a local shop but was told to bring the turbo in before he could say for sure. Kind of defeats the purpose as I'm shopping for a turbo that I know can be rebuilt.
What gaskets should I account for a turbo swap?
-turbo to manifold gasket
-turbo to iron downpipe
-oil line gaskets (supply and drain)
some pics of what in there now:
http://imgur.com/a/pg17f
-
To be specific the original T3 that came on VW diesels is a direct swap. There's a gazillion varieties of T3 turbo out there most of which are not a direct swap nor will they function properly on your engine.
There's also K14 and T2 turbos around with the VW mounting flange. They're a more suitable turbo for general driving than the stock K24/T3.
Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
-
k14 has the same serviceability and sticky wg issue.
id say on a t3, if the wg can is intact 99% chance that it functions fine.
-
also, though i totally agree the k14 and t2 are much better turbos for stockish engines.
-
Any idea which cars had T2 turbos that will fit an MF 1.6TD? How much modification is required? I assume custom downpipes and oil lines at a minimum?
-
The K14 or T2 could be found on 1.6 Eco diesels and on AAZs. I believe they're a direct swap.
Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
-
t2 might have different flanges, but k14 has the same flanges, and oil feed line, how ever the oil drain line is different, but if you have a complete 1.6td oil drain, and the k14 oil drain you can combine the 2 very easily and make it work. I did the reverse of that to put a t3 on my aaz.
-
Picked up a T3 this weekend with all lines and manifolds from a retired German machinist. Spins free and looks clean - hopefully I can use as-is. Will post pics later.
-
Photos of the body and the shaft play. Im pushing side to side as hard as I can while keeping the camera steady.
(https://thumb.ibb.co/mPFOSv/P1020760.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mPFOSv)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/fjsEZa/P1020761.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fjsEZa)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/ikGV7v/P1020762.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ikGV7v)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/h4hbfF/P1020763.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h4hbfF)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/cYwDSv/P1020764.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cYwDSv)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/jRpNLF/P1020765.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jRpNLF)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/jSfJua/P1020766.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jSfJua)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/b1QU0F/P1020768.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b1QU0F)
(https://thumb.ibb.co/mM1PZa/P1020769.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mM1PZa)
-
Any comments on shaft play? Can I use as-is?
-
Does the wheel contact the housing? If not you're fine.
Is there any axial (in and out) play? If not you're fine.
Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
-
what he said ^^^^
if not, t3 rebuild kits are cheap, and yours looks like it was balanced in separate pieces and not as a unit so you could rebuild it yourself, and install a 360 degree thrust bearing for more durability and faster spool up. Although on the durability stand point the t3 is pretty bullet proof.
-
Thanks for the input, much appreciated.
-
No gasket between exhaust manifold and turbo,... right?
Just some silicone.
-
there is no gasket and usually no sealer, but i think i will try some hylomar or some exhaust puddy when i reinstall my turbo tonight.
-
Turbo swap was a bit of a bear but it went well. Only took a day and a half including all new gaskets behind the motor. The four 12 point bolts holding turbo to manifold took 2 of us to loosen cleanly but after that it was ok. I urge anyone doing this to take the time clean all hardware and threads with tap and die as they mine were quite bad. The hardware that holds the downpipe to the bracket coming from the manifold was the worst.
The T3 has an awesome sound. Its like a low pitched whiney whistle in 2nd gear...love it.
So with a new pump, injectors, air filter, and good turbo my car still smokes quite significantly at WOT after the turbo spools. I'm assuming after all this work that this is normal?
Edit: Also, what should I do with the old K24? Shaft play is actually really quite good minimal. Had no oil consumption when I had it in.
-
Smoke can be adjusted using the LDA and max fuel screw on the pump. Or you can turn up the boost... ;-)
Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
-
keep the k24 as a spare?
-
True enough. There's a k24 rebuild thread that I bumped recently which had the photobucket ransom thing happening...is there any update on that? Is everyone just moving hosts? A lot of excellent threads have been lost. Our reliance on digital data has a price it seems.
-
its very unfortunate. i think the description and checking other websites for how to rebuild a turbo would give you enough info on how to do it. Turbos are all put together nearly the same and they're pretty simple too.
-
I'm going to attempt servicing the wastegate. One thing the missing photos from jake's thread would help with is the slide hammering the seals part. The cover of the wastegate seems to be pressed and folded over the body and I assume after I get it off I'll know what to do?
-
are you trying to service the t3 wastegate? that can't be done don't mess with it you can only break it... just test it if anything.
-
Sorry I meant the k24 wastegate while I have the turbo off.
Jake's k24 thread with broken pics:
http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,13357.0.html
-
Got around to removing the wastegate from the k24. Few questions. The valve did not appear to be stuck - that is, maybe the removal process loosened it but it slides freely without any noticeable grit or skips in its travel - however - its very stiff. makes 30 lbs of hand pressure or more to close it - is this normal?
The banjo fitting that came off the wastegate had soot inside - is this a leak?
I see theres a 10mm allen slot at the bottom of the valve but it doesnt loosen anything when I turn it - whats the next step in disassembly process?
The turbines looked fine but the locknut looks like its missing an edge?
Snapped the head off one of the wastegate securing bolts - is it a standard drill out and extract on these?
(https://preview.ibb.co/er1B2Q/P1020776r.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ge3fwk)
(https://preview.ibb.co/kSrB2Q/P1020777r.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e9m0wk)
(https://preview.ibb.co/bS7vU5/P1020779r.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jvenbk)
(https://preview.ibb.co/dRwYGk/P1020785r.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c14yhQ)
(https://preview.ibb.co/gncqwk/P1020786r.jpg) (https://ibb.co/e6JKp5)
(https://preview.ibb.co/fzYkU5/P1020791r.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gX8Kp5)
-
Wastegate doesn't come apart any more than that. About 30 lbs of hand pressure sounds about right, there's probably about 3 square inches of diaphragm in the actuator so that'd be 10 PSI boost pressure. That center Allen bolt thing can make small changes to the preload on the return spring - nothing significant, like within 1.5 PSI of the design set point. It's also a vent that'll let some boost pressure out for cooling purposes so don't worry if the actuator doesn't hold pressure.
Normal to see the missing bit on the compressor and / or turbine nuts. That's from high speed balancing of the assembled turbo. They grind a little off the nuts as required to balance the assembly.
Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
-
i always thought that 3mm allen adjusted how far the valve could open
-
Thanks for replies and good info.
So assuming the wastegate was stuck ( I think the hammering action loosened it) and its not serviceable - whats the best way to clean it? Do I just work in some anti seize along the valve stem and hope for the best?
Its amazing that it got stuck in the 'open' position though...all that spring pressure still didnt allow it to close. So what causes this? A long, high RPM highway drive where the wastegate remained open for a long time?
Is the T3 wastegate superior becuase it has the 2 hoses to the wastegate which both push and pull on the valve?
-
The second hose on the T3 wastegate is simply for cooling, it works the same as the bleed on the KKK one but it is implemented differently.
Generally the wastegate sticks due to heat and carbon. Work it lots while it is out, any lubricant you use needs to be something that won't turn to carbon when it gets exposed to exhaust temps. Graphite would be a decent choice.
Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
-
For hot side of the turbo applications, try nuclear reactor grade (2,400 F) Never-Seez from McMaster-Carr. I used it on my VNT vanes and they operate "like buttah".
Rock3tman