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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Tmarkle on March 30, 2017, 01:32:02 pm

Title: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on March 30, 2017, 01:32:02 pm
So I have acquired nearly all the parts to turbo my 1.6, but I still need an oil feed line for the turbo. I acquired a stock 1.6 TD oil filter housing and a K03 turbo, so what fitting do I need on either side of the line for the feed? I'll also post progress of my project here. Once I have the feed line I will start putting everything together. Any other tips for the swap will be greatly appreciated!!!
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: vic003 on March 31, 2017, 06:28:00 pm
I don't understand your question.

IMO, you should better use braided SS oil feed line. I can't remember the dimensions of the fitting, maybe 10x100 and standard conical seal, maybe 60° cone.
I bought them to my local store in France specialised in pressure hoses made to measure.
I will need approx 80 to 100cm and bought them for 50$, found it cheap for the quality compared to the crap stock feed line.

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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Gizmoman on March 31, 2017, 11:22:47 pm
There should be no pressure on the line to speak of. Just be sure the hose you use is rated for oil and can withstand 500F,
I have no idea what fittings you'll need. "push-on" type with the proper ends for you engine and turbo will do fine with some good clamps.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: vic003 on April 01, 2017, 10:39:51 am
There should be no pressure on the line to speak of. Just be sure the hose you use is rated for oil and can withstand 500F,
I have no idea what fittings you'll need. "push-on" type with the proper ends for you engine and turbo will do fine with some good clamps.
No no no, he is talking about the oil FEED line, not the return line.
Feed line have to handle engine oil pressure.

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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Gizmoman on April 01, 2017, 11:12:16 am
There should be no pressure on the line to speak of. Just be sure the hose you use is rated for oil and can withstand 500F,
I have no idea what fittings you'll need. "push-on" type with the proper ends for you engine and turbo will do fine with some good clamps.
No no no, he is talking about the oil FEED line, not the return line.
Feed line have to handle engine oil pressure.

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I know it's a feed line, but worst case the pressure should not be over 90 psi. Nearly any oil line hose can handle that easily (doesn't need to be wire braid). However, the connections should be rock solid for sure. Use SS braid if your going for the bling, but it's not necessary.

Another option is soft steel tube (like large diameter brake line) with proper end connections. That's what my stock feed line is on my AAZ.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on April 01, 2017, 01:11:14 pm
I've made several different custom supply lines from 5/16" steel tubing bent to fit.  Mcmaster sells 5/16" compression ferrules that work with the 5/16" steel tubing and the stock VW compression fittings.  Make sure to add an anti-vibration clip or two.   
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: fatmobile on April 03, 2017, 12:41:59 am
 Yep, easy bend brake line.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 03, 2017, 05:05:49 pm
Thanks everyone. A local shop here in town can build me a steel braided line pretty cheap so I'll probably go that route. I'm hopefully gunna start the project this weekend, depending on if I get the line!
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: vic003 on April 04, 2017, 05:50:37 pm
Thanks everyone. A local shop here in town can build me a steel braided line pretty cheap so I'll probably go that route. I'm hopefully gunna start the project this weekend, depending on if I get the line!

Good choice, they are not so expensive, durable and practical!
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 05, 2017, 01:25:04 pm
Got the feed line built today. $50 for a SS braid line and two metric to standard adapters. Should be able to get started this weekend!
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 12, 2017, 01:30:22 pm
Got started on the swap last night. Removed the manifolds, swapped the oil filter flange for one with a turbo feed outlet, and welded a fitting into the oil pan for an oil drain. I'll upload photos this afternoon. Going pretty well so far. Next step will be to drill and tap the exhaust manifold for a EGT probe and the intake manifold for a boost sender.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 18, 2017, 05:33:32 pm
Been a while, sorry. Got the swap done! I'm happy with the nice torque improvement. Took Longer than I expected, but it was worth it. How do I post pictures? LOL sory dumb question I'm sure.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Gizmoman on April 18, 2017, 06:19:45 pm
Congratulations on your achievement.
Hopefully one of the moderators can help with posting photos or you can read the FAQ
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: kljaja on April 19, 2017, 04:22:50 am
What exhaust did you use? Old one made to fit td? Gear lever system doesnt hit toilet bowl?
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: vanbcguy on April 19, 2017, 04:11:11 pm
Easiest way to post photos by far is to install Tapatalk on your phone and do it from there... Becomes pretty straight forward that way.

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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 19, 2017, 04:31:15 pm
Easiest way to post photos by far is to install Tapatalk on your phone and do it from there... Becomes pretty straight forward that way.

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Thanks, I'll get that tonight and get some pictures posted
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 19, 2017, 04:32:25 pm
What exhaust did you use? Old one made to fit td? Gear lever system doesnt hit toilet bowl?
I built a custom plate and downpipe. Pictures will be up soon.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 19, 2017, 07:34:48 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/ded4706558a27fdb81637e6f5ca777b9.jpg)[(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/042314f603ff04cba3b3fc451eeb9363.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/2e640a3d42722722c0b0028d2eb1f8a2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/1141a55a750bf4eb95b69939f1b6b214.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/a69b5d2491f800a2f43d4ff662b9774d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/c2c3eef7af8333bc34902044a6e87c12.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/34d2b3a3114f09c69bcec7aa0f7b1c68.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/89407946ed10f5dea7785d844e24c650.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/5389d77471691c95a5e467d0567bdd24.jpg)IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/7d5119dfa848d5a0509c3732f3af0ba4.jpg[/IMG]


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Gizmoman on April 19, 2017, 11:55:17 pm
Good to see you stuck with it to the end! Nothing like driving "your" work around!
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 19, 2017, 11:59:36 pm
Good to see you stuck with it to the end! Nothing like driving "your" work around!
Heck yeah I love it. Way more get up and go. It's been a very fun project. It will probably never be done though, as I'll always be testing and tuning lol.


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Title: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 21, 2017, 01:09:33 am
What's everyone doing for exhaust on a TD? I've got a 2" down pipe and I would like to do 3" out the back but can it fit over the rear axle? Right now it's just open down pipe and it sounds good but I do want a full system.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on April 21, 2017, 11:25:55 am
On the next project, I'd recommend getting mandrel bends instead of doing the diagonal cuts.

There is no reason to go any larger than 2.5" unless you're planning on running monster boost (30+psi) with fuel to match and that would be counter-productive with the k03.  I don't even think you'd notice a difference between 2.25 and 2.5 with the k03. 
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 21, 2017, 11:39:51 am
On the next project, I'd recommend getting mandrel bends instead of doing the diagonal cuts.

There is no reason to go any larger than 2.5" unless you're planning on running monster boost (30+psi) with fuel to match and that would be counter-productive with the k03.  I don't even think you'd notice a difference between 2.25 and 2.5 with the k03.
And that wouldn't have any clearance issues going over the rear axle? The egts are very controllable so I guess I probably don't have to go much bigger.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on April 21, 2017, 12:30:14 pm
You can fit 3" over the rear axle.  It's obviously easier to fit 2.25".  It is a challenge to make any larger-than-stock exhaust so that it clears without noise/vibration.  I have gotten some 3/8" thick medium durometer silicone sheets.  Gluing a pad in places where the exhaust might contact the body can make life easier (and less noisy).   

I'll say again that your k03 is currently a significant limiting factor.  The turbine side is quite restrictive.  I don't think you will see any difference at all with anything larger than 2.25" with that turbo regardless of the amount of boost you run.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 21, 2017, 01:18:36 pm
You can fit 3" over the rear axle.  It's obviously easier to fit 2.25".  It is a challenge to make any larger-than-stock exhaust so that it clears without noise/vibration.  I have gotten some 3/8" thick medium durometer silicone sheets.  Gluing a pad in places where the exhaust might contact the body can make life easier (and less noisy).   

I'll say again that your k03 is currently a significant limiting factor.  The turbine side is quite restrictive.  I don't think you will see any difference at all with anything larger than 2.25" with that turbo regardless of the amount of boost you run.
The K03 is small for sure! I appreciate the very fast spool though. It was the easiest turbo for me to find near me. I just didn't want to put on exhaust that was "too restrictive." Thanks for the good tips! Straight pipe for a flow through muffler?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 22, 2017, 01:29:28 am
https://youtu.be/rtMdSxawcFc Here's a cool video I made of the project, go check it out!


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 26, 2017, 12:06:33 am
So I installed a boost controller tonight. I can peak the boost @18 psi. I try not to go that high, I like to stay around 15 psi max. A slight problem has risen though. I am beginning to believe the head gasket is on the way out. The thing runs like a raped ape, tons of power, idles smooth, so on so forth but after it's warmed up and been ran for a while, it leaks water and steams underneath the water outlet on the drivers side of the head. The reservoir has enough pressure to spray coolant if you crack the cap open. The water temp gauge got to about 2/3 after some heavy acceleration. No coolant in the oil or vise versa. No white smoke or coolant smell out the exhaust. A head gasket replacement seems intimidating...


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on April 26, 2017, 12:32:26 am
Are you sure that the water under the coolant flange isn't coming from the coolant flange gasket?  It's completely normal for the temp to hit 2/3 on the gauge sometimes.  It is also completely normal for the coolant to spew from the pressure tank if you open it when it is hot. 
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 26, 2017, 12:36:11 am
Are you sure that the water under the coolant flange isn't coming from the coolant flange gasket?  It's completely normal for the temp to hit 2/3 on the gauge sometimes.  It is also completely normal for the coolant to spew from the pressure tank if you open it when it is hot.
It could be from that gasket... I have a new one I'll toss in and see. The steam is the part that made me wonder, but I guess hot coolant would steam at operating temp.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: RabbitJockey on April 26, 2017, 11:13:20 am
check the flange itself as well, they like to crack, even the aluminum ones, i had one that cracked on the bottom side.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 26, 2017, 12:50:08 pm
I'm gunna check it out. Hopefully that's the case not the head gasket.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: fatmobile on April 26, 2017, 02:27:18 pm
Check the flow from the small line coming from the radiator going to the resevoir.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 26, 2017, 02:47:36 pm
Check the flow from the small line coming from the radiator going to the resevoir.
What should it look like? A steady stream or what?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on April 26, 2017, 10:43:22 pm
The return to the reservoir is a slight but steady trickle on my 1.6 but as soon as I race the throttle it sprays in there as good solid stream enough to spray out if I am not careful.  It rises up and catches the edge of the cap area and then flies out the top.  But I would venture an RPM around 2500 at that point.

Just my experience, all water pumps are different but if working half as good as they should I venture all would produce a solid stream into the reservoir.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 27, 2017, 12:35:15 am
The return to the reservoir is a slight but steady trickle on my 1.6 but as soon as I race the throttle it sprays in there as good solid stream enough to spray out if I am not careful.  It rises up and catches the edge of the cap area and then flies out the top.  But I would venture an RPM around 2500 at that point.

Just my experience, all water pumps are different but if working half as good as they should I venture all would produce a solid stream into the reservoir.
Ok. Well the only thing that appears to be SUSPECT of being the head gasket is the leak and steam below the water flange. But I'm going to replace the water outlet and the o ring and pray that that fixes it. I love driving it so this leak situation is driving me nuts! Lol.


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Title: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 28, 2017, 09:37:54 pm
Well... I have confirmed that the head gasket it probably shot. I replaced the water outlet and the o ring. On my test drive after about 5 minutes the water temp for high enough to blink the light at me. I immediately shut it down. The coolant tank had a ton of pressure and it was leaking from the same spot on the head gasket as before. After it cooled down I drove it home and the temp was on the rise quickly by the time I parked it. Hopefully the head isn't severely warped. A local shop quoted $75 to deck the head and $150 for a full valve job. Seem reasonable? Should I do a metal head gasket? Can the head be removed with manifolds and the turbo still attached and without removing the IP?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on April 28, 2017, 10:32:01 pm
The head can be removed with the manifolds on it if you want to bust yourself getting it out to there.  I leave the exhaust connected at the pipe but remove it from the head.  Likewise I remove the intake.  The studs are somewhat tricky to get to from the back but it can be done.  The IP should go as well as you have to have the lines to the head off the injectors anyway.  Clear yourself some room to work and you won't regret it.

Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 28, 2017, 10:41:08 pm
The head can be removed with the manifolds on it if you want to bust yourself getting it out to there.  I leave the exhaust connected at the pipe but remove it from the head.  Likewise I remove the intake.  The studs are somewhat tricky to get to from the back but it can be done.  The IP should go as well as you have to have the lines to the head off the injectors anyway.  Clear yourself some room to work and you won't regret it.
Thanks. If I have the head decked, should I use a thicker gasket? It's a one hole that's on it now.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on April 28, 2017, 11:18:04 pm
Changing the distance from the valves to the top of the piston is going to result from shaving down the head.  I always measure the protrusion of the pistons above the top of the engine block to decide on what gasket thickness to purchase.  Bentley guide has ranges for individual gaskets.  Once I know that height of the pistons over the block I still check the clearances on the valves as well.  There isn't a lot of wiggle room with the top of the valve pushing down into the cylinder and the piston sticking up above the block.  That is why we all recommend turning it over by hand a couple of full rotations on the crank when doing a timing adjustment. 

I have just been off a tooth on the IP and have had that wrench on the front of the crank go clunk and knew instantly to back it up and do it again.  Something didn't align correctly.

Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 28, 2017, 11:24:34 pm
Changing the distance from the valves to the top of the piston is going to result from shaving down the head.  I always measure the protrusion of the pistons above the top of the engine block to decide on what gasket thickness to purchase.  Bentley guide has ranges for individual gaskets.  Once I know that height of the pistons over the block I still check the clearances on the valves as well.  There isn't a lot of wiggle room with the top of the valve pushing down into the cylinder and the piston sticking up above the block.  That is why we all recommend turning it over by hand a couple of full rotations on the crank when doing a timing adjustment. 

I have just been off a tooth on the IP and have had that wrench on the front of the crank go clunk and knew instantly to back it up and do it again.  Something didn't align correctly.
Yep. When I did the the front seal in the IP I had to remove obviously the timing belt and IP pulley with everything TDC. Afterward I rotated the engine by the crank pulley and obviously there was some resistance due to compression, but I have a feel for it turning over freely. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's more than likely that the head will need decked right? 212xxx miles on the ole girl.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on April 29, 2017, 06:45:26 pm
Has the shop dealt with VW IDI diesel heads?  If not, then do not have them cut the head surface.  If it is not done right, the prechamber inserts will be loosened and can cause total engine failure later on.  Factory says that machining the diesel heads is strictly verboten, but it has been done successfully by some. 

I have actually hand lapped a couple of them successfully and feel it is better on the prechamber inserts.  Skill is required and the usual disclaimers apply. 

Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 29, 2017, 06:54:09 pm
Has the shop dealt with VW IDI diesel heads?  If not, then do not have them cut the head surface.  If it is not done right, the prechamber inserts will be loosened and can cause total engine failure later on.  Factory says that machining the diesel heads is strictly verboten, but it has been done successfully by some. 

I have actually hand lapped a couple of them successfully and feel it is better on the prechamber inserts.  Skill is required and the usual disclaimers apply.
Well when it rains it pours.... I was checking it out today in the nicer weather and found the timing belt was pretty loose. Tightened it up to where I could bend it 45 degrees. Started, ran for about 15 seconds, and the belt snapped. It shut down immediately. I'm thinking the car is a total loss at this point, as I don't have the money to replace the head if it is screwed up from this.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: TylerDurden on April 29, 2017, 07:08:52 pm
I'm thinking the car is a total loss at this point, as I don't have the money to replace the head if it is screwed up from this.

Bummer!

But not a total loss... you were gonna pull the head anyway. You could probably park it and get the coin together for another head, then get back in  business. You've come this far...
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 29, 2017, 07:12:02 pm
I'm thinking the car is a total loss at this point, as I don't have the money to replace the head if it is screwed up from this.

Bummer!

But not a total loss... you were gonna pull the head anyway. You could probably park it and get the coin together for another head, then get back in  business. You've come this far...
Yeah I'll see. Maybe if I can find a used TD motor I'll toss it in, but here in Montana vw diesels are tough to come by.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on April 29, 2017, 08:12:50 pm
Were you driving the car when the belt snapped or was it idling?  If idling, you probably have to replace a couple valves but probably no other damage. 

How old was the belt?
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 29, 2017, 08:27:14 pm
Were you driving the car when the belt snapped or was it idling?  If idling, you probably have to replace a couple valves but probably no other damage. 

How old was the belt?
Idling. Previous owner (whom I know and trust) said 10xxx miles, but I had to replace the front seal in the IP because it was leaking diesel, and I wonder if that shortened the life significantly.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on April 29, 2017, 09:57:42 pm
Pull the head and I bet you will see a couple hits of the valves on two cylinders and that is it.  They shut down pretty quick when at an idle.  Not much momentum to carry it through a lot of turns of the crank. 

Might need a couple of valves and you will be good to go. 

Need anything?  I found these after my son visited last month.  He ruined the head by placing it on a concrete floor with the face towards the pistons down.  But most of this was still good.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zyahonpv6m89bm/2017-04-16%2018.35.41.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zyahonpv6m89bm/2017-04-16%2018.35.41.jpg?dl=0)
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on April 29, 2017, 10:25:22 pm
I wonder if that shortened the life significantly.

Indeed it does.  If the timing belt gets any significant amount of diesel on it, it should be replaced as a matter of course.  The easy time to do that is when you have to pull the belt anyway to replace that seal. 
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 29, 2017, 11:24:26 pm
Pull the head and I bet you will see a couple hits of the valves on two cylinders and that is it.  They shut down pretty quick when at an idle.  Not much momentum to carry it through a lot of turns of the crank. 

Might need a couple of valves and you will be good to go. 

Need anything?  I found these after my son visited last month.  He ruined the head by placing it on a concrete floor with the face towards the pistons down.  But most of this was still good.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zyahonpv6m89bm/2017-04-16%2018.35.41.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zyahonpv6m89bm/2017-04-16%2018.35.41.jpg?dl=0)
I'll think about that stuff. Thinking about saving some money/selling some stuff to do fresh rings and bearing and maybe ARP hardware, so that I know she's ready to handle the added stress of the turbo. Can a guy rebuild a head himself or should I have a shop do it. I'm pretty mechanically inclined. The shop that I talked to has done these heads before too.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on April 30, 2017, 01:16:05 pm
I've replaced valves and valve guides and then hand-lapped the new valves to seal properly.  As I mentioned before I have also hand-lapped the head gasket surface and actually think that's better than having it milled.   
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 30, 2017, 11:37:42 pm
I've replaced valves and valve guides and then hand-lapped the new valves to seal properly.  As I mentioned before I have also hand-lapped the head gasket surface and actually think that's better than having it milled.   
I think there was a thread on how to hand-lap the head I read somewhere but I can't remember where!


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on April 30, 2017, 11:42:26 pm
I use a large true flat piece of polished granite and then use some spray adhesive to stick 120 grit paper to it.  The paper I use is from an 8" wide floor sander roll.  I then lubricate the paper with WD40 or similar.  When sanding I vary the direction and position of the head repeatedly.  This will not work for a significantly warped head.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on April 30, 2017, 11:45:34 pm
I use a large true flat piece of polished granite and then use some spray adhesive to stick 120 grit paper to it.  The paper I use is from an 8" wide floor sander roll.  I then lubricate the paper with WD40 or similar.  When sanding I vary the direction and position of the head repeatedly.  This will not work for a significantly warped head.
Thanks for the great tips. I really hope the head isn't warped terribly, but I won't know anything until it comes off.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 02, 2017, 10:36:00 pm
How good of an idea would it be to replace the original head with a TD head? Would it be worth it?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 03, 2017, 05:12:39 pm
Found an '83 Quantum turbo diesel about 5 hours from me. The seller only wants $300 for it. He claims it ran when it was parker. Really considering it.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: fatmobile on May 03, 2017, 07:34:52 pm
If you have a feel for what the compression should be; bring a socket and breaker to turn the engine over by hand before buying.
Sounds like a good deal.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 05, 2017, 01:13:59 am
If you have a feel for what the compression should be; bring a socket and breaker to turn the engine over by hand before buying.
Sounds like a good deal.
Gunna bring a battery too and see if maybe she'll start. '83 would be 12mm block right? It hasn't ran for about 6 months he said. I've got a feel for compression so I'll do that before I use the starter to turn it.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: RabbitJockey on May 05, 2017, 10:26:57 am
if its a real turbo diesel its a 12mm block.

if the crank bolt is 19mm its a 12mm block
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 05, 2017, 11:57:29 pm
Called him today and he tossed a battery in and it runs! He said the pump needs retimed cause it's clacking due to being to advanced. $300 seems like a fair deal to me. Just trying to fit it in a high schoolers budget after I just turboed one lol!


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 16, 2017, 01:02:50 am
Quantum sold before I could get to it... So I have 3 heads, two are mechanical one is hydro. No matter what the head that checks out for flatness will have so valve work done. Have anyone done guides themselves? How much side to side play can the valves have?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Dakotakid on May 17, 2017, 12:15:46 am
According to Bentley:
Using NEW valve stems: 1.3 mm for exhaust..........1.0 mm for intakes
The exhaust stems are slightly smaller than the intakes.....even though they are both referred to as 8 mm stems. Obviously, the exhausts grow slightly larger with heat.

I use a 0.315 inch reamer for the exhaust followed with slight cleaning hone. I used a 0.3155 inch reamer for intakes followed with slight hone for smoothing. My job turns out slightly larger than the Bentley specs. I lose a little guide wear....but, I KNOW they will not stick in the new engine.

In the future, I will use the 0.315 in both holes and use more lubrication to get slightly tighter clearances.

There are also manufacturer differences in the stems (although (of course) not much). TRW's are slightly larger......Sealed Power and Osvats are a red-one smaller than the TRW's.

Of course, wobbling valves is not "accurate" as the guides wear oblong due to the rotational effect of the cam. But....what the hey............

I GUARANTEE you need at LEAST exhaust guides in virtually any used head.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 23, 2017, 12:17:57 am
Haven't gotten any farther with the car. I've become leery of taking the head to a machinist after reading horror stories of dropped precups. If I could afford a new head I would do that but that's not an option right now either.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 24, 2017, 12:26:38 am
Well I finally got the time and motivation to crack open the motor. Four valves appear to have hit pistons. On the bright side cylinders have virtually no lip (can't catch my nail) no prechamber cracks, and the head surface looked pretty good after some clean up. Is there a way to tell if the valves are bent or should it not even be investigated and just replace them?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 24, 2017, 12:28:45 am
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/5c9e82fb6b68883dc172a6cf4958bb30.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/0f94da2453929c8278cbee93133ed085.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/63fbbc18637d6cba16956c06153c2035.jpg)


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 24, 2017, 12:29:29 am
Also what's the best way to clean any debris out of the cylinders? Brake clean and air?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: vanbcguy on May 24, 2017, 01:37:51 am
Valves tend to compress when hit - the stem gets fatigued but the valve stays "straight". The stem will be shortened slightly... There may be some noticeable wobble rolling the stem on a table but it often isn't all that obvious. This is the cause of a lot of trashed engines - people try to get away with just a new belt. The valve still seals so it "seems" like everything is good to go. Then a couple thousand miles later the head drops off the valve and completely DESTROYS the piston, head and possibly the block. If you're really lucky you bend a rod too.

New valves are cheap compared to the rest of the engine - once you have the valves pulled for inspection I'd be tempted to replace any that hit pistons.

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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on May 24, 2017, 01:52:12 am
New valves are cheap compared to the rest of the engine - once you have the valves pulled for inspection I'd be tempted to replace any that hit pistons.

Your post is right on except I think you're understating it a bit.  If there is any indication at all that a valve and a piston made contact I wouldn't just be tempted, I'd most certainly replace it. 
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Dakotakid on May 24, 2017, 03:39:57 am
If the valves are suspected units due to contact.....the lifters must be considered as well.

This is the first time I have ever seen true "first-over" pistons. I would go ahead and compare piston protrusion among the four. But, I would NOT pull those pistons unless you HAVE to because finding rings for those will be difficult......unless Hastings or some other off-beat. This is why you do not have much of a ridge.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: RabbitJockey on May 24, 2017, 07:47:18 am
pull the lifters and flip them over, you can tell if there is damage

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Trev0rbr/20170501_1908491_zps6fahk7xu.jpg)
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 24, 2017, 08:25:59 am
If the valves are suspected units due to contact.....the lifters must be considered as well.

This is the first time I have ever seen true "first-over" pistons. I would go ahead and compare piston protrusion among the four. But, I would NOT pull those pistons unless you HAVE to because finding rings for those will be difficult......unless Hastings or some other off-beat. This is why you do not have much of a ridge.
What would be a situation were I'd have to replace the pistons? I don't know if I mentioned that every single piston has a valve mark. Most of the marks are pretty much just visible but one has a ridge half way around I can catch my nail on easily (one pictured).


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 24, 2017, 08:27:36 am
And what's a "first over" piston?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: RabbitJockey on May 24, 2017, 08:49:57 am
pistons would depend on personal preference, they dont sound too bad, just make sure the rods aren't bent.  I would only replaced them based on whether or not the engine needs overbored, which is decided by cylinder bore wear and compression numbers.

First over piston would be the first size over stock piston, so a 77mm piston because 0.50mm over size is the "first over" size piston.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 24, 2017, 08:54:57 am
pistons would depend on personal preference, they dont sound too bad, just make sure the rods aren't bent.  I would only replaced them based on whether or not the engine needs overbored, which is decided by cylinder bore wear and compression numbers.

First over piston would be the first size over stock piston, so a 77mm piston because 0.50mm over size is the "first over" size piston.
Cylinders look good so I think that's ok. @dakotakid is saying that my engine has oversized pistons? Like it's been rebuilt once or was I misunderstanding his statement?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: RabbitJockey on May 24, 2017, 12:03:11 pm
looking and being are 2 different things haha

you can buy the two tools you need for measuring bores for less than 100 dollars if you're interested in being scientific about it

How ever in my opinion, if it had good cold starts before, didn't have a bunch of piston slap, didn't burn a bunch of oil, and the bores don't have any obvious problems then i wouldn't worry about it.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Dakotakid on May 24, 2017, 02:20:26 pm
Markle: yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Look at the stamp on the top of the piston: "25/D" Indicates first over which is very infrequent and difficult to source those pistons and rings. However, this immediate middle section in the discussion makes me glad this forum still has the ignore feature. Headed there now................
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on May 24, 2017, 07:27:14 pm
First over piston would be the first size over stock piston, so a 77mm piston because 0.50mm over size is the "first over" size piston.

The oversizes are:

1st=0.25mm
2nd=0.50mm
3rd=1.00mm

I don't know of anywhere that sells 1st oversize.  I have heard that the 1st oversize was reserved by VW for factory long blocks that needed some minor correction to the manufacturing/machining and were not typically available to the general public.  Because of this, many parts suppliers only show two oversizes and call the 0.5mm oversize the 'first oversize' and the 1.00mm oversize the 'second oversize'. 
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 24, 2017, 07:50:26 pm
First over piston would be the first size over stock piston, so a 77mm piston because 0.50mm over size is the "first over" size piston.

The oversizes are:

1st=0.25mm
2nd=0.50mm
3rd=1.00mm

I don't know of anywhere that sells 1st oversize.  I have heard that the 1st oversize was reserved by VW for factory long blocks that needed some minor correction to the manufacturing/machining and were not typically available to the general public.  Because of this, many parts suppliers only show two oversizes and call the 0.5mm oversize the 'first oversize' and the 1.00mm oversize the 'second oversize'.
Huh weird. P.S. sorry if this becoming more of a project discussion that turbo swap discussion is annoying people. If a moderator can move this to a project category or something like that.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on May 24, 2017, 07:57:25 pm
There's nothing wrong with this thread being where it is.  It's appropriate.
Title: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 25, 2017, 12:46:54 am
Got the valves out. Forgot to get pictures. Tomorrow after work I will check the valve guide's
inside diameter.

Best way to remove the valve seals?

Are the valve spring exhaust/intake specific? I kept them separate just in case but I thought I better check.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 27, 2017, 01:08:25 am
So I checked the head for flatness tonight. I did not use a machinist straight edge, but a very expensive 6 foot one. No matter where I placed the straight edge across I couldn't get a 0.003" feeler gauge under it.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on May 27, 2017, 12:05:01 pm
Doesn't sound like you have a warped head then.  A quick polish might be all you need.  Just to clean it up for the install.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 27, 2017, 12:07:51 pm
Doesn't sound like you have a warped head then.  A quick polish might be all you need.  Just to clean it up for the install.
That's what I was hoping to hear haha, the only thing I'm still stumped on is getting the old valve stem seals out. I should have just left them but I tried getting one out and pulled the spring and some rubber off so now I definitely need to get them out and replace them.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: burn_your_money on May 27, 2017, 12:27:37 pm
Not this exact one, but this style plier works great for valve stem seals.
https://www.amazon.com/Valve-Removal-Pliers-Serrated-Overhead/dp/B014OSYFG8
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on May 27, 2017, 09:55:34 pm
AS long as you have replacements there is no reason to baby the seals when getting them off.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 27, 2017, 09:57:48 pm
AS long as you have replacements there is no reason to baby the seals when getting them off.
I have new ones. No problem there. Ordered a tool kit with a removal tool like above and a set of install tools.


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Title: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 29, 2017, 08:33:52 pm
So I dropped one of the cam followers on the ground... grrrrrrrr! Will I need to replace it or should it be ok? And will cam follower damage from the belt snap definitely be visible?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on May 29, 2017, 11:47:53 pm
Lifters????  or that round can like thing that goes over the springs and has the spacer on top?  The Cam followers.  I am not following the wording you are using here. 

Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 29, 2017, 11:49:49 pm
Lifters????  or that round can like thing that goes over the springs and has the spacer on top?  The Cam followers.  I am not following the wording you are using here.
Oops sorry I'm used to pushrod engines. Yes I meant cam followers.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on May 29, 2017, 11:57:34 pm
As long as you clean it up real good and get the grit off of it you should be fine.  I have one in my engine that actually has a bit of the lip that is on top of it that holds the shim in place.  The cam lobes don't get near it so it is not a problem.  I have replacements now but I really don't want to pull the cam just to replace that one piece.  It is working so why mess with it?

Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 30, 2017, 12:00:03 am
As long as you clean it up real good and get the grit off of it you should be fine.  I have one in my engine that actually has a bit of the lip that is on top of it that holds the shim in place.  The cam lobes don't get near it so it is not a problem.  I have replacements now but I really don't want to pull the cam just to replace that one piece.  It is working so why mess with it?
By the way this is a hydro head so no shims. I'm not super familiar with the hydro system so I wasn't sure if there was a mechanism inside that could have been damaged by the fall or the belt failure.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on May 30, 2017, 12:03:32 am
I think you are good to go.  If these parts weren't so smooth and shiny and coated with oil a guy could hang on to them better. 
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 30, 2017, 12:08:28 am
Haha no kidding. Well that's less parts I need to order! I'm hoping to have parts by this weekend and when I get time off work I can reassemble and be back on the road. The car had a one hole head gasket, and I've heard of people using a thicker gasket to lower compression when running a turbo but I'm thinking it's best to just use what was there to begin with. From now on I'll only be running maybe 12 psi so nothing crazy.


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Title: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 30, 2017, 12:09:14 am
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170530/7a0e6d13551aba893854a272a5cfcfde.jpg) Here's the head all cleaned up. There seems to be some slight pitting where the gasket met the head in a few spots. Anyone ever use spray on dealers for a head gasket?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on May 30, 2017, 02:39:54 am
At this point I always use Hylomar spray - light coat on both sides of the gasket, the block, and the head.  It works very well.  Better than copper spray.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: RabbitJockey on May 30, 2017, 11:03:04 am
andrew, do you have a source, that stuff is tricky to find, i think they changed the name of it or something
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on May 30, 2017, 06:45:49 pm
Ebay.  :)  ~$20 per can.  A can does 2-3 heads.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on May 30, 2017, 08:33:13 pm
Thanks for the tip on the Hylomar cans Libby.  I couldn't get any on the last fix I had so I resorted to the copper spray.  No problems with it either.  Coated all surfaces as you say.  Then VERY CAREFULLY aligned the gasket and set the head. 
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: RabbitJockey on May 31, 2017, 12:02:14 pm
i got a can coming my way, i used it on a headgasket job before and i really liked the stuff.  i'm actually at a similar point as tmarkle with my rabbit haha, i have the head apart on my work bench, hopefully will be lapping valves in tonight so i can reassemble... time permitting.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 31, 2017, 09:18:24 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170601/623941c610a31a64a3812d18ecc83edc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170601/d4bb62e44d6ca86bdc382e547af7bd37.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170601/eb86369adc00b205c583215f9b1717de.png)
Got the old valve seals out and installed the new ones. Highly recommend this tool set!


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on May 31, 2017, 09:33:27 pm
Nice and clean install tool.  Not so nice and clean hands.  You are not a glove guy are you?

I only resort to them when dealing with liquids.  I figure Fast Orange and the bristle brush will take most any grease and oil off. 
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on May 31, 2017, 10:16:54 pm
Nice and clean install tool.  Not so nice and clean hands.  You are not a glove guy are you?

I only resort to them when dealing with liquids.  I figure Fast Orange and the bristle brush will take most any grease and oil off.
I have a bad habit of never wearing gloves. The only time I seem to remember to grab them when working with hot metal haha


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: dailydubber on June 01, 2017, 10:01:46 am
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170601/623941c610a31a64a3812d18ecc83edc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170601/d4bb62e44d6ca86bdc382e547af7bd37.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170601/eb86369adc00b205c583215f9b1717de.png)
Got the old valve seals out and installed the new ones. Highly recommend this tool set!


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Did you have to do anything extra after the guides were installed? I am rebuilding my head and thinking about replacing my guides myself instead of the shop

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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on June 01, 2017, 07:38:15 pm
Not doing the guides. The valves had very little wobble and measured very close to spec, and well below the maximum wear. Just doing new valves and seals.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: dailydubber on June 02, 2017, 09:44:01 am
Not doing the guides. The valves had very little wobble and measured very close to spec, and well below the maximum wear. Just doing new valves and seals.


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Oh ok, my bad. I read that post wrong . I will start a thread once I am nearing the end of my engine rebuild. Only the head is what's holding up the progress. Well ultimately the funds. I'll watch this thread closely and hopefully I pick up on some good information. Good luck!

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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on June 02, 2017, 11:08:34 am
Not doing the guides. The valves had very little wobble and measured very close to spec, and well below the maximum wear. Just doing new valves and seals.


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Oh ok, my bad. I read that post wrong . I will start a thread once I am nearing the end of my engine rebuild. Only the head is what's holding up the progress. Well ultimately the funds. I'll watch this thread closely and hopefully I pick up on some good information. Good luck!

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If mine had needed valve guides honestly the price for a full valve job plus having the head milled begins to near the price of a new head. Luckily mine also wasn't warped so I'm just putting new valves in and new head gasket and she'll be ready to roll. I'm hoping it will be solid now so I have wheels when I tear down my 12 valve Cummins for an overhaul. Once my Bentley manual and parts come I'll start putting everything back together.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: acidtonic on June 04, 2017, 11:28:37 am
What about the crack between the valves on the head? In your photo on reply #92 it looks like the crack between the valves will eventually cause failure after enough heat cycles.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: vanbcguy on June 04, 2017, 03:40:56 pm
What about the crack between the valves on the head? In your photo on reply #92 it looks like the crack between the valves will eventually cause failure after enough heat cycles.
Those cracks are present in most IDI heads. The general rule is they're no problem unless they're thicker than a dime.

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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on June 04, 2017, 10:34:10 pm
What about the crack between the valves on the head? In your photo on reply #92 it looks like the crack between the valves will eventually cause failure after enough heat cycles.
From my understanding very small cracks like those are common.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Gizmoman on June 07, 2017, 08:01:19 pm
Yup,
I had em on mine and it ran fine.
That's only one head though, one guy, on this forum, on the www.
But then, what are the chances?

I did have one prechamber loose and the cracks were no where close to it. The loose prechamber was one on #4 and that's the piston that melted : (.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: RabbitJockey on June 08, 2017, 11:42:56 am
i have seen only a few heads that did not have those cracks.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: fatmobile on June 13, 2017, 04:10:11 pm
Where do you guys get that little cap that goes over the valve stem so it doesn't catch on the seal?
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Gizmoman on June 13, 2017, 06:36:54 pm
Where do you guys get that little cap that goes over the valve stem so it doesn't catch on the seal?
Are you talking about protecting the seal when you slide the valve stem in?
If so, I used painters tape to cover the groove in the stem.
Maybe I don't understand the question:?
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on June 13, 2017, 09:18:47 pm
I broke down yesterday and due to lack of time I took the head to a machinist. I've been spending 12-14 hours a day in a swather so I've been pretty short on time. Hopefully I can get it put together this Friday.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on June 13, 2017, 11:33:53 pm
The little plastic protective caps generally come with a set of seals.  You put that on the stem and slide the seal over it.  Then remove the cap and use it on another valve stem.  I have never seen a place where you can just buy the cap. 

In a pinch I might try using a straw.

Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: fatmobile on June 20, 2017, 06:01:24 pm
Thanks.
 I got one with some valves but wore it out and was wondering what to use so the keeper grooves don't catch the seal.
 I'll check what I can do with a straw.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 01, 2017, 01:19:45 am
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/2697037a895196cf574b14bdffdacf52.jpg)
Almost put back together. Rebuilt head and rebuilt injectors, plus numerous seals and hoses replaced. Hoping she runs good after all this time and money spent.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 03, 2017, 10:09:44 pm
Well things were going well... until I forgot to remove the cam lock when trying to turn over the motor. Cracked a chip out of the slot on the rear. I'm beginning to hate working on this dumb thing. Anyone know if a mechanical cam will fit a hydraulic head? Also Bentley says 33ft/lb for the cam sprocket bolt but some people on other forums say it should be higher? I'm thinking best bet is to listen to to the VW bible but clearly my judgement isn't worth a crap after this dumb muck up.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: vanbcguy on July 04, 2017, 11:17:05 am
Lots of folks out there with a chipped timing slot on their cam. Won't hurt anything, just run it.

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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Gizmoman on July 04, 2017, 12:18:21 pm
Lots of folks out there with a chipped timing slot on their cam. Won't hurt anything, just run it.

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There you go. You've come a long way, don't let this mishap chill your efforts, plenty of folks have done the same thing or worse. During my rebuild, I torqued down my brand spanking new Klobenschmidt head with one of the valves open and sitting on a piston.
Title: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 04, 2017, 06:32:39 pm
Well I feel much better now lol, I guess I assumed to quickly it was shot. I was panicking when it wouldn't turn over and saw the cam lock still in and it totally ruined my night when I saw it cracked, I just put my tools away and went home.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 04, 2017, 11:06:08 pm
Well more great news! Injection pump is shot... when turning the motor over by hand the belt tries to walk off the pulley, and with the belt off the pump had a pretty good amount of play. This car is becoming addicted to my paychecks! Lol


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on July 05, 2017, 08:51:52 pm
dude, looking at prev pages & pics, i couldnt be sure, looks like you made one under estimation of your project. recent problems aside, which i hope you can get straightened out. what id like to point out and the question. is your exhaust one solid (&welded) piece to the turbo? that is a problem.
the factory old style (basic-hook up) the toilet bowl exh hook up, set up was an easy basic way to kind of 'separate' the exhaust. as one single piece the exhaust is now a solid extension, or lever of the whole engine. the old toilet bowl allowed a separation of the beginning of the exhaust and the rest -length of the exhaust. if its solid the whole exhaust is now a (solid) lever, where as you torque the engine the whole lever is dependent on the motor mounts, and you can ruin the exhaust and have all that torque going down to the muffler and tail pipe. on the 'newer' mk3's like ive kept up on and most newer cars as i take it, theres a separation (also) they will have a flex pipe, so the rest of the length of the exhaust (under the whole car) can just 'hang' there. the front part, the motor can now rotate, torque on the motor mounts.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 05, 2017, 08:55:14 pm
dude, looking at prev pages & pics, i couldnt be sure, looks like you made one under estimation of your project. recent problems aside, which i hope you can get straightened out. what id like to point out and the question. is your exhaust one solid (&welded) piece to the turbo? that is a problem.
the factory old style (basic-hook up) the toilet bowl exh hook up, set up was an easy basic way to kind of 'separate' the exhaust. as one single piece the exhaust is now a solid extension, or lever of the whole engine. the old toilet bowl allowed a separation of the beginning of the exhaust and the rest -length of the exhaust. if its solid the whole exhaust is now a (solid) lever, where as you torque the engine the whole lever is dependent on the motor mounts, and you can ruin the exhaust and have all that torque going down to the muffler and tail pipe. on the 'newer' mk3's like ive kept up on and most newer cars as i take it, theres a separation (also) they will have a flex pipe, so the rest of the length of the exhaust (under the whole car) can just 'hang' there. the front part, the motor can now rotate, torque on the motor mounts.
Going to run a flex joint after the down pipe so that nothing mentioned will cause a problem.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on July 05, 2017, 09:09:01 pm
hate to be a multiple critic; only trying to help. butt i thought id mention..

your intake being solid is quite the same. you need breaks, normally 2 are needed, the closest 2 to the motor. rubber hoses at the intake, (&clamps),any more are additional, like 2 on either side of the intercooler.  rubber can flex.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 05, 2017, 09:47:27 pm
hate to be a multiple critic; only trying to help. butt i thought id mention..

your intake being solid is quite the same. you need breaks, normally 2 are needed, the closest 2 to the motor. rubber hoses at the intake, (&clamps),any more are additional, like 2 on either side of the intercooler.  rubber can flex.
Using a metal reinforced flexible radiator hose between the turbo and the blue charge pipe. Plenty of flex there lol


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on July 06, 2017, 11:51:20 am
thats one side of the intake, iirc, you installed an intercooler, so you have one line coming out of turbo, you say that one you have a rubber line on it, you now have a solid line to intercooler, in this case and on the other side on intercooler another flexible connection is real smart, then you will/should have another solid line back to intake(manifold) this needs a flex connection here. the next smart reason for flex rubber hose connection in all these spots is accessibility, you can now service most of that system just as easily as well.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 06, 2017, 12:21:36 pm
hate to be a multiple critic; only trying to help. butt i thought id mention..

your intake being solid is quite the same. you need breaks, normally 2 are needed, the closest 2 to the motor. rubber hoses at the intake, (&clamps),any more are additional, like 2 on either side of the intercooler.  rubber can flex.
Using a metal reinforced flexible radiator hose between the turbo and the blue charge pipe. Plenty of flex there lol


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No intercooler, I know it looks like it drops down to a fmic but the easiest way to attach the charge pipe with how the K03 sits compared to the 1.8 intake manifold was to loop down and back. It will evening get an intercooler which is part of the reason I fabbed the charge pipe that way.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on July 07, 2017, 08:56:37 am
so your good on the 'front side', its just the 'back side' there you need some help as i suggested, and gl with the other fixes, it usually is an investment. if you get it working right you may have a long time to enjoy it and tweek it.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 07, 2017, 11:59:43 am
on the valve seal conversation, i just did mine, i just smothered mine in assembly lube and gently pushed them in the seals, so hopefully there was no damage, i didn't see any nicked pieces in the grooves or anywhere else.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 10, 2017, 11:49:48 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170711/2dd71b6aee725baad0103111146c71e6.jpg) This is the TDC mark correct? Crank turned just a bit by accident with the belt off.


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: ORCoaster on July 11, 2017, 01:05:12 am
That is what mine looks like except I painted it Red in the notch so I could see it better in low light conditions.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: vanbcguy on July 11, 2017, 02:35:49 am
Yes

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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 17, 2017, 11:46:20 pm
So I'm probably in denial that the pump needs rebuilt or replaced, but is there anything else that could cause the belt to walk onto the lip of the IM shaft pulley? The IP shaft has some play but I would think that I would have had this problem the first time I had the belt off. The belt did loosen up after a however long between these repairs but I figured it was my substandard homemade tensioner tool or simply the tensioner being worn. Now that I think of it I may have forgotten the bolt that goes from the mini bracket to the back of the IP, would that cause this?


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Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: libbydiesel on July 18, 2017, 12:29:08 am
You can adjust the belt tracking by adjusting the injection pump bracket.  I've described how about 8 gazillion times in the archives.  I'm too tired to type it again.
Title: Re: VW 1.6 NA to Turbo swap! Questions and Progress.
Post by: Tmarkle on July 18, 2017, 12:29:56 am
You can adjust the belt tracking by adjusting the injection pump bracket.  I've described how about 8 gazillion times in the archives.  I'm too tired to type it again.
Thanks, I'll take a look!


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