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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: epowell on March 10, 2017, 01:03:04 pm
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METAL INJECTION LINES:
Finally after all of this time I installed my brand new metal injection lines. I took off the anti-vibe clip and installed each line individually > I think it is easier that way - then re-installed the anti-vibe clip.
TWO ISSUES:
1) First off, when removing the old lines I initially forgot that there are inserts (14mm nuts) behind the 17mm injection line heads right at the pump itself > and since it has been about one year since I loosened those lines the 17mm bolt didn't crack free from the 14mm insert and I ended up actually loosening the insert a bit. Just 1/4 turn, but it made the insert loose. Of course I then properly removed all the 17mm metal line nuts and then re-tightened up that 14mm insert nut.
Am I OK now, or is loosening that insert, then re-tightening, going to cause any issues? I guess not, but best to ask anyway :)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1615344.jpg)
2) The Second issue is that upon installation of injector line #4 it had to be routed VERY tightly up against the LDA - contacting it and rubbing. It would be so much better if I could just rotate the LDA 1.8 turn so that rubber nipple could move out of the metal line's way. Is there any way to easily rotate this LDA... or should I forget about it?
Thanks!
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1615345.jpg)
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First problem: The inserts are called delivery valves if I'm correct, as long as it wasn't fully removed and no dirt got in I wouldnt worry about it.
Second problem is that isnt an lda, it doesn't look like your pump has one. Is this a turbo engine? Its kinda of hard to tell from your picture but it looks like that might be the fuel return hose from the injectors? If thats the case you can loosen the banjo bolt and rotate the nipples a bit.
This is an lda pump, its the round part on the top
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/PUMP/pump001.jpg)
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As far as I know that's an LDA... look at this foto. Yes the engine is a 1,6TD JX (VW T3)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1615398.jpg)
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That's not a stock VW pump - probably explains why the lines don't fit properly. That doesn't even appear to be Bosch.
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Can you just loosen those screws on the LDA and rotate it 90 degrees and reinstall?
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Can you just loosen those screws on the LDA and rotate it 90 degrees and reinstall?
Yeah exactly... this is what I need to know if it is possible without messing things up. There is already AIR now in the system so no problem there... just wondering if I can loosen the LDA and rotate it even 10mm, or even 5mm... would be enough.
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I would only rotate it if I inspected inside to see if there was a linkage that allowed a 360 degree rotation. Nothing levered and required to be aligned straight out to the rest of the mechanism. From the pictures it looks like some screws hold that cap on. Can you remove them and get a peek in there to see if you can move it at all?
Sometimes there are springs pulling back against a mechanism like that and you might be able to move the cover back a small crack and see what is going on in there.
Just a real tight fit there and you know it will get vibrated like crazy once the engine starts.
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Spent at least a day and a half fiddling with these pipes, bending, removing, testing, looking, bending, removing.... etc etc... Sometimes it is better to tighten down one end and then bend from there, other times just take off and bend with hands - and even a few times I had to clamp in a vice and bend.
But now finally I have them so nothing is touching anything - I don't really know why it was so difficult to get them in, or even if I now really have them in there properly. Hopefully so much bending won't weaken the metal.
Andrew wrote me something privately which might be a solution - basically saying that if I skip the timing belt over one tooth on the pump sprocket, then I can rotate the pump more away from the head... and this might make pipes installation easier. I was look at this, and tried to imagine the effect of rotating the pump away from the head, and I could not really picture how this would make installation easier.... so I did not yet try this idea (also because it would be a serious work, and since my pump is tracking so nicely and well timed and everything, I hesitate to mess with it.)
In this first foto you can see that it seems like my LDA is not even hooked up!!??? Wow, I wonder if this happened while trying to put on the pipes, or if it was not hooked up for a LONG time!?? Does this thing come unattached easily? How to re-attach it??
Thanks
After the first foto the rest are exactly how I now have the pipes... nothing touching anything, but still a tight fit.
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1617044.jpg)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1617050.jpg)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1617049.jpg)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1617045.jpg)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1617046.jpg)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1617047.jpg)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1617048.jpg)
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The reason you had so much trouble getting the lines in is because that isn't a stock VW pump. Your lda didn't fall off or become disconnected it's just completely different then any pump I've ever seen. The later aaz pumps had a diaphragm actuator like yours but it was used to control the cold start mechanism and has nothing to do with boost enrichment. I don't know what that pump is from but any kind of fine tuning with it and you are probably on your own.
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Ummm... to everyone stating that it is not a stock VW pump or that it is not Bosch, I can only say that it most certainly IS a stock VW LDA equipped injection pump made by Bosch! It is an 'other market' 1.6TD VANAGON injection pump, engine code JX. That is a single-model injection pump. The typical LDA equipped injection pumps found on other IDI engines will interfere with the engine lid in the 2WD vanagons. Because of that interference, the LDA was redesigned as shown and model specific injection lines were used to clear the LDA.
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Thanks Andrew... I'm just green to all of this, but my pump looks exactly like all other JX pumps I've seen, and last year I did extensive work around this pump with the guidance of Andrew and several other people who have extensive experience and from all of them not a single hint of anything out of the ordinary with my pump. I'm surprised to find here on this site unfamiliarity with JX pumps... I guess among VW DIESELS the JX is a unicorn. Makes me love my JX even more :)
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You just like all the glitter and candy produced by the unicorn pump.
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No, I like it's clack-ity-clack-ity sound and feeling. But actually the clacking is less now that my timing is less advanced. But I love the sound and resonance.... and of course, the simplicity of it.
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So I now have noticed that the stick on the end of my LDA is not hooked up to the fuel boost lever... and I was wondering to myself, how that happened and how long it has been that way. . . . . so I searched thru fotos from last year (when I was last working on the pump and injectors etc), and found fotos showing that the LDA was also NOT hooked up back then (embarrassed!).
What is the functional effect of that? From my understanding that would mean that the turbo is still feeding more AIR into the engine but NOT a corresponding fuel boost > which would mean that the added AIR would not have the added FUEL to burn, so the end result is that the turbo would only give a very weak effect at best? Is my assessment correct? Thanks
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That's correct, the LDA adds fuel when boost is present. Without it connected, it's kind of like driving around with a turbocharger and a N/A pump, kind of like how the Jetta eco-diesels operated.
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Are we about to see a great improvement in torque and smoking wheels now?
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Yup, the non-turbo 1.6 engines were rated at 52 hp. The ECOdiesels with turbocharger but no boost fuel enrichment were rated at 59 hp. The MF engines with boost fuel enrichment were rated at 67 hp. The GTD intercooled turbocharged 1.6 engines with boost fuel enrichment were rated at 80 hp. In each of these cases the basic engine is the same, the differences are in how much air and how much fuel are pumped into the engine. The change from 52 to 80 hp is pretty dramatic. Anyway, with no fuel enrichment, you'd probably be near the 59 hp range. With fuel enrichment connected you will likely be in the 68 hp range. Popping that little rod back onto the ball stud might just turn out to be the easiest 15% increase in HP you ever do. :)
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Of course that boost will only be present at the times when the turbo is actually giving boost, and now with my K24 that is limited to the times when REVs are quite high. So currently I wouldn't feel any extra power going up a hill in 2nd, but certainly more power at higher speeds?
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Doesn't the enrichment happen at higher "RPM" and not at higher MPH? So you should have better power at the top end of the shift of every gear I would think.