VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI - VE Pump TDI Engines => Topic started by: vw offroader on July 08, 2015, 07:27:59 pm
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Hello everyone, I am new to the vw forum and am in the midst of pulling out my hair with this mTDI pump. I hope someone on here is able to help as the information I have been reading is great! Okay, so I have a 1999 ALH that the pump went bad on and decided to convert the engine over to mechanical for use in my rock crawler project. I had a diesel mechanic use a Bosch VE pump and swap out the head, Cam plate, and plunger. After putting the pump on the engine I tried to start it and the first time it ran it was running around 3500 rpms and had no throttle control. I was frustrated and let the pump / project sit for a couple months. After getting the project started again I can't get the motor to run.
So I pulled the pump off and took it to pro-formance diesel injection service in Clearfield, PA. The guys up there are great to work with and are a certified Bosch rebuilder. The problem is they rebuilt the pump and put it on the stand for testing / tuning. The same thing happened to them. Everytime they run the pump it just takes off and has infinite running like there is no end. To the best of my knowleadge it still has no throttle control. Has anyon ever experienced this before? I am stranded at this point.
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what pump did he start with? Bosch ve...yes, was it an electronic gov. pump? was it an IDI pump? If he tried the E pump there is no real way to control the fuel pedal mechanically.
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Would be really helpful to know what various pump bits have been put together. There's hundreds of variants of the Bosch VE pumps all meant for different things.
The simplest thing to do would be to get a pump that just works, like a Land Rover 300TDI one. They don't need any internal modification to run an ALH.
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Thanks for the responses. The original donor pump was from the 99 TDI ALH. Took the internals out of it and put it into the VW IDI pump. I believe the pump is off a 1.6. I should have wrote down the number off the pump and checked it to be exact. The ve pump does have the throttle linkage on top and has no wires. Just one to the stop solenoid. Like I said I am a newby at this. The pump is still at the rebuild shop and I am trying to get a hold of original diesel guy that I got the pump from to see where he acquired it. Is there any place on the internet that gives you the breakdown by number the original use of the VE pump?
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pretty sure the lever won't be long enough to really fuel unless you weld a piece on. Why it is revving and not coming down I have no clue
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Yeah those parts are anything but plug and play. Ugly. You could have sold the ALH and 1.6 pumps and bought a proper DI pump...
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You probably could have spent less and gotten a similarly non-working pump from Hans instead... :P
There is a significantly steep learning curve to building a properly functioning franken mTDI pump. Most folks (even certified Bosch rebuilders) do not have the knowledge/experience to pull it off.
All of that said, if the engine is running away right off the bat, then the most likely culprit is the accelerator lever to shaft orientation. Undo that, let the shaft relax to idle, install the lever so that it is very close to idle. Usually that is within one click of the correct position. It should at least run there although possibly you will need to depress the accelerator to keep it idling.
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Thanks for the responses. The original donor pump was from the 99 TDI ALH. Took the internals out of it and put it into the VW IDI pump. I believe the pump is off a 1.6. I should have wrote down the number off the pump and checked it to be exact. The ve pump does have the throttle linkage on top and has no wires. Just one to the stop solenoid. Like I said I am a newby at this. The pump is still at the rebuild shop and I am trying to get a hold of original diesel guy that I got the pump from to see where he acquired it. Is there any place on the internet that gives you the breakdown by number the original use of the VE pump?
Okay so I did some digging and the pump that they swapped the parts into was a 1.6 td not the IDI as I had originally thought. Are there any other mods that need to be done to the pump internally that I might have missed besides swapping just the 1.9 cam plate, plunger, and head? Does the governor have anything to do with the idle running away? Also, I read that a rover 300 pump will bolt right on. If that is the case is this the pump they are referring to? http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/ERR4046
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1.6td = IDI.
Yes, there's modifications to the governor lever needed to make it work right.
Yes, that's the Rover pump that definitely works.
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Thanks for the info. The wires on top of the rover pump, what are they used for? Cruise control??? I also read that you need to swap the nozzles from the alh to the rover 300 in order to use the stock vw injector lines. Is that true?
Sorry for so many questions, you guys are very knowledgeable. I'm just trying to figure it all out.
As far as the governor mods on the 1.6 frankenpump, do I need to shim between the springs, or change springs, or weld something? Any info is great. Thanks
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The wires on the Rover pump are used to control EGR on the Rover but do nothing on a VW. It's a throttle position sensor. I'm using mine for my VNT controller personally but the whole thing can be removed.
The delivery valves are too long, you can bend the injector lines to fit but swapping VW delivery valves is much easier.
The frankenpump needs welding probably. There's an old mtdi how to post on here somewhere that explains it.
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As I mentioned previously, if it is revving up uncontrollably then it is most likely because the accelerator lever to shaft orientation is not correct (or the max fuel screw is too far in). Try turning the max fuel screw out a couple turns or jump the lever 1 click CCW relative the shaft.
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Thank you vanbcguy and libbydiesel. I find all of this information helpful. I will be sure to look through the post to find the "mtdi how to post"
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I would have hoped a bosch service center would have found that? Did they even test it?
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http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,6427.30.html the good info starts around post 40.
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This is my first post on this forum. Perhaps the question(s) I have have already been answered somewhere, but I'm not conversant enough with this site to find them. So, here's some background:
I have a 1z engine complete with most, if not all, peripherals to install in my 1986 vw westy with the 2.1 wbx engine. The 1z has the factory electronic Bosch injection pump and I've looked into going the mtdi route with either a 4bt, a Land Rover 300tdi, or something mechanical tdi pump built from a combo by a reputable vendor, such as Giles. The problem with this though is the initial cost of the pump which I'd like to delay until I see if my 1z engine actually runs as it is.
I've read on either this or the tdi.net forum about the electronic wiring harness minimized, but for the life of me can't find the photo and thread for this harness. I think it is for a passat/toyota truck installation so perhaps that wouldn't do me much good with my vw westy, but I don't know. For now, what I would like to have is a minimum harness that effectively makes the electronic ip function similar to the mechanical one - sort of reverse retrograde engineering, but I don't know how to do this myself.
How can I apply the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) method to the etdi harness, or is there a vendor or talented person who can do this for me? Much appreciated. Joe
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There's a vendor I've seen on TDIclub selling a minimal custom harness that'd probably be right up your alley. I don't have a link happy but I know it exists.
Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
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I believe the pump is off a 1.6. I should have wrote down the number off the pump and checked it to be exact.