VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: acidtonic on November 29, 2014, 11:04:10 pm
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I just picked up a 1980 VW Rabbit Diesel (
1.6 I believe 1.5 engine) with the 4 speed manual and a sun roof for $600. Car has 82,000 original miles and seems to be quite rust free for the number of years.
There are minor problems yet I was able to start it up and drive it 45 minutes home under its own power.
I'm completely new to diesel yet I have other gas performance cars. The 1st and biggest problem is a leak either from the injector or the throttle-input seal around the fuel injection pump that causes the car to lose prime after sitting overnight. Then I have to pull the hose off the fuel filter and pour diesel in before I'm able to start it. Also it didn't want to start in the snow when I first bought it until I was able to plug in the block heater. So my guess there is the glow plugs probably need replacing. There is a very small and almost non-existant coolant leak from this little 2 inch piece of rubber hose in front of the radiator where it appears to go into what I believe is the T-stat housing.
Here are a bunch of pics to show the car and it's starting condition which I think was a downright *steal* for $600 It has a beautiful interior and really only needs minor fix ups to be 100% ready.
Problems in list form.
1. Injection pump leak causing car to lose prime.
2. Leak around injector #3 but it doesn't seem to be fast. (might be part of prime-loss issue?)
3. Glow plugs that need replacing for the harsh winter here in Michigan.
4. Front turn-signals aren't hooked up. Rears work fine.
5. Only high beams work, yet no one seems to notice when I just leave the brights on with such small lights (hehe)
6. Heater fan never seems to be turning on, guy I bought it from said he put power to it and it turned on, so it's not blown it's just an electrical problem of some kind.
7. Rear hatch strut is blown and doesn't hold the rear glass up.
8. No radio (but I could care less, love the sound of the diesel engine!)
9. Wipers work, but they are "slow" so I probably want new motors. The guy said he had them somewhere and will call me if he finds them.
10. Door hinge on the drivers door doesn't hold well, yet I can shut the door and just lock it which then keeps it shut nicely.
Spare parts:
I got a spare radiator, spare set of axles, spare head lights, generator, front and rear bumpers which aren't spares but were taken off the car when purchased... (looks kinda good without them honestly). Also some extra visors and floor mats that look factory. The little vent window is fine on the passenger side but on the drivers side it's taped on with gorilla tape (quite well actually) and thus I'm not listing that as a problem.
Here are the pics.
(NOTE: The white dots on the front of the car is just salt from the snow storm I just drove through to get this thing home, it looks smooth and shiny when clean.)
(http://i.imgur.com/6agg5cV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/d2DPX3v.jpg)
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I'm gonna take a guess that the low-beam filaments are blown? new sealed beams are cheap. All i learned from the candle power forums is that long-life bulbs have a long life but their light output is sub par after a year or so.
I'm under the impression that it's unusual for an injector body itself to spring a leak. Loose or cracked injector line? loose or cracked leak-down hose?
If you get a gasket kit for the injection pump from your local bosch diesel injection dealer, several people have been able to re-seal the lid and some other major points of leakage without major heartache.
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I'll check the bulbs tomorrow. Worst case I'll get a headlight kit from the store and wire it up.
I'm mostly worried about having to time the pump when I take it off. That procedure looked quite difficult and I wasn't sure that you can get away with just making a mark and trying to line it back up.
I would just like to get it to start every time without needing the block heater so I can take it to work and back. I presume the pump is the main culprit and I'll replace the return hoses on the injectors tomorrow as well.
Thanks for the help :)
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Yup, you stole it. ;D
I'd check the brake lines closely, or just replace em... every one of my fleet had bad lines, esp the rabbits. I'd check the lower corners of the windshield closely for rust, those areas are the bane of the rabbit line: water gets in and shorts the fusebox near the driver footwell.
Git yerself a Bentley manual, timing tools and a compression tester, and have a ball.
(I'm in A2, BTW)
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I'm slightly worried about the cracks I see along the injector mounting area in the head. I am afraid to attempt to remove those injectors for fear of breaking it off or ruining the head.
I think I'll just focus on the pump and purchase the timing kit and manual, then fix that seal myself.
Any pointers or guides? I saw a youtube video of how to time it.... anything better than that?
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I didn't notice the cracks in the pictures. I would be soiling my shorts in your shoes. A good machine shop can flux weld those cracks but finding another head and having them rebuild that to original factory spec would possibly be a better or cheaper solution.
our own Vince Waldon's how-to is better than the bentley manual. See it here: http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28
If you don't have the cam and IP sprocket locks yet, EWK Tools sells a good pair on eBay for about $28 shipped - http://www.ebay.com/itm/261610002329
This "Shars" metric dial indicator is compatible with the timing adapters and appears to be pretty adequate (I have one) - http://www.ebay.com/itm/270350075799
Find your local snap-on man and get the official timing adapter - https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemid=29100012 -- it's cheaper than the ebay tools.
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I didn't notice the cracks in the pictures. I would be soiling my shorts in your shoes.
Is it really that bad? It does not look like it will be a problem as long as I avoid messing with those injectors. They don't seem to be leaking much at all compared to the fast leak on the injection pump.
I found someone locally who said they could rebuild the pump for $200 parts & labor. Since we'd be there he'd also change the timing belt for $200.... I'm still thinking I may want to do this myself and just invest the money in the tools so I could manage the car going forward.
Thanks for the links. I'll get that stuff rolling shortly and post some more updates.
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is that shars dial indicator long enough to go into the adapter? If so I will get one :D
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When i get home I'll take a picture of the shars indicator with my ebay adapter. Aside from having a much larger face, it seems to have the same dimensions as the yamaha indicator i borrowed from rabbid
.:Sent by pneumatic tubes
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And cracked injector ports are scary because eventually rebuilding the injectors with new nozzles will be desirable, and people do break heads installing injectors the wrong way (wrench handle pulling away from the head instead of toward it)
.:Sent by pneumatic tubes
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Well I just got done throwing 2 new glow-plugs in (cylinders 3 & 4).... Also got the plug in cylinder 2 loose and ready to come out which I'll finish up tomorrow.
I think cylinder 1's plug is best reached by removing the timing belt cover and going in from the side... I'll start there tomorrow. Either way I'm happy that I will be able to get them all without pulling the injector hoses or messing with any of the fuel injection pump components.
I ended up finding Bosch Duralights which are supposedly compatible with either the slow or the fast relay kit. I didn't want to pay for an expensive relay upgrade so I specifically sought out
these plugs.
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Gear wrench especially with the flex head can be a worth while investment. I use them more than any other tool I own now. The glow plugs are now too much of a problem now.
Cheaper in a set but worth every penny even as singles
http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-9913-Flex-Head-Combination-Ratcheting/dp/B0002SR04Y
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Easiest way to get at the plugs behind the pump is to undo the engine mounts, raise the engine, then drop in a TDI....
I once pulled the injectors on my 1.6 so I could get at the glow plugs. Then I dropped one of the glow plug nuts down the injector hole. #$&$) #&$$
Thankfully the steel nut was easy to pick out of the aluminum head with a magnet.
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Gear wrench especially with the flex head can be a worth while investment. I use them more than any other tool I own now. The glow plugs are now too much of a problem now.
Cheaper in a set but worth every penny even as singles
http://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-9913-Flex-Head-Combination-Ratcheting/dp/B0002SR04Y
Yeah, bought my set of 7 when i was battling o2 sensors on my land cruiser. Great wrenches. i might buy some singles to fill in the gaps.
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is that shars dial indicator long enough to go into the adapter? If so I will get one :D
Photos as promised. With ubiquitous ebay adapter. iirc with both sections of the ebay adapter together and the longer rod, it's basically the same lengths as the official adapter.
If you can find a snap-on truck, don't bother with the ebay adapter - it's not cheaper than the official tool.
It bears no country of origin markings, but was inspected by someone named YuPing so, draw your own conclusions.
(http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yve7lH8F4qY/VH1dhx87SuI/AAAAAAAAHuU/9FLTJJnkWLk/w1580-h889-no/1201142334.jpg)
(http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YLTMJiuy18U/VH1c2qCwGZI/AAAAAAAAHu0/6rRJS4FzW1E/w1580-h889-no/1201142331.jpg)
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b4TX0WN706Y/VH1dWb4i19I/AAAAAAAAHuI/IOWzlWtOaNM/w1580-h889-no/1201142332.jpg)
I have many chinese mechanical watches, some exceedingly cheap, and based on their startling accuracy and durability i have no doubts that this dial indicator is probably just fine.
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I bought a cheap indicator a while back with 10mm travel and it didn't have enough travel to read once installed in my adapter. That is why I asked. I got my adapter from Jack the guy that owns the hillbilly forum.
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Huh. I'm having trouble envisioning how that happens. When i get some time i will try this one in my old NA pump
.:Sent by pneumatic tubes
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i heard somewhere that I could potentially run a tank of B99 BioDiesel and that may stop the leak in my IP by swelling the seals? Is there any truth to that?
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I've heard that sort of thing before. Not sure if it's for real, or if it has a lasting effect.
.:Sent by pneumatic tubes
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Biodiesel won't make seals swell... quite the opposite. It'll clean things out quite well though. Including any junk that may be plugging a leaky seal...
Pre-ULSD caused seals to swell; ULSD does to a certain extent. Biodiesel does not.
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Okay I got all the glow plugs changed without removing the injector lines! 8)
I also now think I have a 1.5 engine for sure... (look in the pics below for my comments on that)
To rethread the glowplugs without any room I used the rod end of a factory tire jack with the flat-head on one end and the curled loop of metal on the other.... I used the loop kinda like a support and was able to lower the plug down and slide it into the port on the head. Then I carefully reached between the head and the fuel line and was able to get my index finger and middle finger around the thing and thread it in one turn at a time. Eventually I figured out how to get each one in and out and it was tricky but entertaining.
For anyone interested here was my strategy.
Cylinder 1: Remove the timing cover and come in from the left side under the belt with a small wrench. Then the left hand reaches in and unthreads/catches it. Same for reinstallation.
Cylinder 2: By far the worst and hardest overall. 8 mm wrench going between the two injector lines and the head doing an 1/8th turn at a time slowly and surely. Painfully slow but even with a wrench that hits either side of the injectors leaving no room, it's possible. I used the closed end of the wrench so there was no slack. Then let it fall out and I used a magnetic tool to pick it up. For reinstallation it was a pain to get the glow plug back in because the cold start advance lever blocks it from going down. So first I hung the plug off a magnet connected to a long screw-driver, then lifted it up and started "swinging" the plug back and forth using only the magnetic forces to hold it to the end of the screwdriver. If done correctly you can "swing" it up and into the hole enough that you can use the loop end of the spare-tire jack tool to then hold it in place (or a coat-hanger)
Cylinder 3: Small swivel fits in between the right-angle injector hose bends coming right out of the Injection Pump. If you move the front coolant hose out of the way you can fit a small 6 inch extension and ratchet which lets you get *right* at the bolts making this one quite easy.
Cylinder 4: Painfully easy, just come in from the right hand side or go straight at it with an extension and ratchet.
Old and Busted....
(http://i.imgur.com/OZLpVsVl.jpg)
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New hotness...... (literally)
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Looks like 90cid means I have the 1.5 according to this label.
(http://i.imgur.com/fltG8qFl.jpg)
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Here is the small hose that is cracked and leaking bad. Next project when I get more time.
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Magnet tool is your friend.
Look for the engine serial number on the block:
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/02b0w1htdsrchq4/Serial1cr.jpg)
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Well I tried starting the car for the first time after completing the new plugs last night (too late to start it up) and it didn't want to start.
Seems like nothing has changed with regards to starting. I wondered if the plugs are turning on at all and I started checking out the fuse wired into the wire that goes to cylinder 4. I noticed it gets warm when the plugs are supposed to be cycling so I figured that was proof that the circuit is working. Guess I need more investigation.
I am starting to suspect either a bad ground or a bad battery. I put my trickle-charger on the battery and the charge light came on and didn't go off. Other idea is to check the temp sensor and try to unplug it then see if it runs the plugs long enough to start.
If none of that works I have some work in front of me. Considering the vehicle runs fine once started and the fact that it starts fine if the engine is warm or was recently running tells me the glow plugs must be the problem or a weak battery/starter.
Hope it's not because the motor is bad or losing compression. More to come tonight when I can get home to troubleshoot.
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I have timed it and it takes me less than a minute to remove and replace the injection lines. It takes approx. 20 seconds of cranking to refill the injection lines once refitted. Replacing the glow plugs without removing the injection lines is certainly possible but takes a lot more extra time than the 90 seconds of removing, replacing and bleeding the lines and is a whole lot less fun.
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I have timed it and it takes me less than a minute to remove and replace the injection lines. It takes approx. 20 seconds of cranking to refill the injection lines once refitted. Replacing the glow plugs without removing the injection lines is certainly possible but takes a lot more extra time than the 90 seconds of removing, replacing and bleeding the lines and is a whole lot less fun.
I get it.... previous owner already tried and rounded off the bottom inside bolt pretty good on the pump. I'm going to have to get some channel locks when it's time for that and I wasn't exactly wanting to go down that path until I'm ready to pull the pump out. Then I was just planning on cutting that line and getting the pump out without messing with that specific bolt since it (and the line I believe) would have to be replaced anyway.
I just got a very nice high quality UPS battery from work that has some serious storage capacity yet its only 12 volts. I'm going to test the battery by just swapping this beast once charged in the car and seeing if that helps anything.
I'm getting closer. Today I was able to prime the pump and get the car to start popping a little when I try to start it without plugging in the block heater. Before the plugs were so shot that it never did that until I plugged the block heater in. With the new plugs "it's trying".
I used a meter and saw 11.5 to around 11.8 volts at the glow-plug end when it's warming up. Terminals read 13.8 volts. I'm not sure if it's normal but it seems to climb after about 3 seconds. Starts at like 9.5, then climbs up to 10, 10.5, 11, 11.5 then it holds around there until the full 20 seconds elapses and it shuts off.
I'm also wondering if my slow relay is perhaps partially to blame for this.... remember I only changed the plugs to new Duralights which I heard worked with slow or fast.
I'm just trying my best to get it to reliably start in the cold still so I can drive it around the block to work. What should I do if I'm tired of priming the damn pump.... can I put a coolant transfer hose inline and just pump that without needing to carry around diesel fuel? Any tricks here?
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Most UPS batteries have low current capabilities despite their high capacity. Something to be aware of.
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Okay well it seems this battery made a difference. Car started right up even though it didn't feel like it was cranking slowly before. So far this battery as-is from work started the car way stronger than the battery that was in there.
Funny too because this battery registered exactly at 12 volts yet started the car stronger than an 880cca battery that was charged to 13.8 volts.
We have 6 of these batteries at work and I may just take another one home if they will let me. Bad ass battery.
I had to go purchase new terminals since this battery came with small 10mm bolts where the terminals would be. O'reilly's had the exact same thread size with a normal battery terminal for $3.
Here are pics for those interested. They told me this battery cost some serious dollars when new. No idea if that's true or not.
I'm going to try tomorrow without the block heater at all and see if this battery is able to get it going from a 100% cold start. I found the page by googling the part number and it's still going for around $180 so not bad for free. They quote 300 full cycles are possible which means this truly is a deep cycle. Nice :)
This is a genuine C&D Technologies UPS12-300MR rechargeable sealed lead acid battery with high-rate discharge design that guarantees an excellent performance in UPS applications. The genuine C&D Technologies UPS12-300MR UPS battery has 325 Watts per cell on 15-min rate at 1.67 Volts.
With a self-discharge rate of less than 3% per month, the genuine C&D Technologies UPS12-300MR UPS battery has an expected life up to 10 years in standby use and it can be used for up to 300 cycles at 100% discharge in cycle service. The genuine C&D Technologies UPS12-300MR UPS battery has no-leak construction and can be operated in any position.
(http://i.imgur.com/UhyoYvKl.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/Jgakrcgl.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ai2Ug4Vl.jpg?1)
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Good news! I was able to just walk out and start the car this afternoon using the new battery and patiently waiting for 2 full 20 second glow cycles before attempting to start it. Last drive the night before was 10pm, then it sat until I was able to come home at 12 noon to start it. So in that situation it sat for 14 hours in 28 degree weather and then started without needing to prime the pump or plug in the block heater. w00t.
That was enough to make me think it's safe to drive to work. So I brought it in and showed the guys here. Looks like I'm almost ready to make it my daily driver :)
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I've started several IDI diesels in sub-0°F with a single glow plug cycle. 28° is balmy. Down into the single digits, it should start within the first revolution of the starter.
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I've started several IDI diesels in sub-0°F with a single glow plug cycle. 28° is balmy. Down into the single digits, it should start within the first revolution of the starter.
I was actually nervous and just decided to do 2 cycles before even trying. Even then I had to crank it a few times. Remember my IP is leaking quite bad overnight and thus it must be using the first few cranks to prime the pump.
I'll try tomorrow morning with just one cycle and see how that goes. I'm still using the factory slow-relay that came in the car when purchased. I don't mind waiting 20 seconds as long as it's a for-sure start.
So next up I'll start trying to figure out the heat situation. Do you guys know what fuse that is off the top of your heads? I'm hoping just the fuse is blown but I'm not sure what to do if it's not.
I also see some wires going to a little dial knob under the dash by the shifter area. Has F on the left and R on the right. Not sure what it does or is for. Perhaps audio/fade front to rear?
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Any leak, even at the small injector jumpers will make cranking time longer. Fix the leaks.
The electrical system on these cars is extremely simple. I don't recall the specific fuse, but testing and finding out why the heater blower is not working should be easy.
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I plan to play with it more when it warms up a bit. For now it's starting more "regularly" and I feel like I'm good as long as I start it up every day now.
I also want to toy around with putting an electric motor in it and using a cluster of those batteries I already have access to. I was planning something similar with the Geo Metro 1.0 3 cylinder I also have but the frame on that car went bad on me. I have some rather large solar panels I pondered installing in place of the rear seats.
Also I have no parking brake. There's a cup-holder thing there so I'm going to pull that and check out the E-brake situation. Tired of rolling when I clutch-in to start.
Power brakes seem weaker or less assisted than they were recently. Probably need to flush the fluid and bleed them. The car is so light that it's not a priority since I can still stop it on a dime by just using some pressure.
Any pointers on cheap rust-proofing? Since this car is nice and clean, I want to try to preserve it without letting Michigan salt have it's way.
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Electric conversion: lead sucks ballz... big, heavy, super slow to charge, bad Peukert effect, lame in the cold... the list goes on.
Brakes: check for vacuum leaks too.
Cheap rustproofing: Keep all the weep holes clear.
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I was quite happy to find that a place I've been browsing online was local. http://www.partsplaceinc.com
That place is literally about 3 miles from my house and better yet, open tomorrow morning!
Looks like I'm going to be spending a lot of time down there fetching new things to restore on the Rabbit..... I've made a shopping list for tomorrow, am I missing anything?
They sell a full timing kit with their dial indicator for ($139.99) but if I get an indicator from Harbor Freight but the other tools from them I can slip in a timing belt and tensioner and still be $20 cheaper. So here's my list.....
Dial Indicator (14.99 *harbor freight)
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-travel-machinists-dial-indicator-623.html
Cam lock plate (19.95)
http://www.partsplaceinc.com/products/product-detail.aspx?keyword=VW+Diesel+Camshaft+Locking+Plate+UN+-120-832&sku=3506
IP locking pin (9.95)
http://www.partsplaceinc.com/products/product-detail.aspx?keyword=VW+Injection+Pump+Locking+Pin+UN+-120-832&sku=3507
Timing belt tensioning tool (23.95)
http://www.partsplaceinc.com/products/product-detail.aspx?keyword=VW+Timing+Belt+Tensioning+ToolVW+-120-864&sku=3518
Timing belt (23.95)
http://www.partsplaceinc.com/products/product-detail.aspx?sku=1258
Tensioner (27.95)
http://www.partsplaceinc.com/products/product-detail.aspx?sku=1261
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$120.74
Any issues with this dial indicator vs the one they sell in that kit?
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I would also like to know. I also need to get an indicator soon as well
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The HF dial indicators are fine, I use them.
The PartsPlace and I go back a few decades. Same with S&G Import parts.
I get my new parts from S&G, for vintage stuff I'd see Jack who sold PartsPlace to his daughter. Jack has the ads on Craigslist (Auburn Hills).
I'd compare the prices on the parts & tools to S&G, if it isn't a big difference PP is ok and they usually stock the Bentley manuals.
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Well turns out the harbor freight indicator will NOT WORK. I was tricked by the wording.
I figured it was a "travel size" dial indicator.
Nope, it's a dial indicator that measures "travel distance". As in how far the pin is pushed in and out, it doesn't measure rotation or screw into anything on the end.
So I'm back to looking for a good dial indicator locally.
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Every dial gauge will need the sleeve that threads into the port on the pump and attaches to the body of the gauge. Some sleeves are a single piece, some are segmented for use on various engine models. Google image search: VW diesel timing gauge.
I use this: http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-travel-machinists-dial-indicator-623.html , with a sleeve.
You'll need all the bits, so you might as well get a kit.
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Every dial gauge will need the sleeve that threads into the port on the pump and attaches to the body of the gauge. Some sleeves are a single piece, some are segmented for use on various engine models. Google image search: VW diesel timing gauge.
I use this: http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-travel-machinists-dial-indicator-623.html , with a sleeve.
You'll need all the bits, so you might as well get a kit.
That must be why I was confused then. So I just need to get the adapter then and my gauge can be used. Good to know :)
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I was able to pull the pump tonight. Hardest part was getting the pump sprocket off but I found that a long screwdriver fit inside the hole from the back of the pump which could be hammered. That however didn't really work. What ended up working about 2 minutes before I was going to go out and rent a puller, I jammed a big flathead screw driver between the sprocket and the metal bracket holding the pump (at 12 o-clock) and pried rather hard. It finally popped out and shot off.
I wanted to replace the belt but it looks like a plastic housing is still keeping it on at the bottom. I didn't see anywhere where removing that was mentioned in the Bentley. I think I'll keep the belt on this time around and just make sure the pump is good to go before I introduce too many variables.
Here are a bunch of photos showing where I'm at. I now need to open the cold start advance area where I believe it's leaking. The main shaft seal seemed dry and intact. The pump also was dry where the distribution block bolts in so I think that seal is also good. It's mostly soaked on the bottom all around the cold start seal plate and the plate on the other side. So I think that little O-Ring right behind the plate is the culprit. I literally had to stop right as I got the pump out. More to come tomorrow.
(I just sprayed PB-Blaster on a lot of the bolts before shooting these photos. That's not fuel leaking around the injectors)
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Paint marks scare me, that is not how to time a VW diesel. Please tell me you have it correct and you have looked at the Bentley and vince waldon's how to site?
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Paint marks scare me, that is not how to time a VW diesel. Please tell me you have it correct and you have looked at the Bentley and vince waldon's how to site?
Yes I actually put those there *after* properly timing it just in case I mess up. I assume that by pretending they aren't there and retiming the engine when I go to put the pump on, they should line back up if I transfer the marks to the new belt. I even verified the flywheel TDC mark through the inspection port.
I'm now trying to figure out what size o-ring the cold-start lever is because I'm certainly not going to spend $80 to buy the full rebuild kit just to use a few O-rings. I'll pull it again if I have to should it still leak from somewhere.
Worst case I'll open it up tomorrow and take the O-ring down to the parts store but I'd much rather just get the part number or correct size to be sure.
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The cam belt won't matter. It is infinitely adjustable.
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If you did not paint mark the crank sprocket and belt at crank then your paint marks at the pump are misleading and at the cam potentially disastrous.
I used to use two screwdriver/chisels and a punch on the pump shaft to loosen the pump sprocket but a couple years ago I made this bad boy:
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/libbybapa/Tools/100_2671_zpsaab17b5f.jpg)
I actually had one pump that seized it's vane pump and sheared the key allowing the pump sprocket to rotate on the shaft and in doing so welded the sprocket and shaft together. That puller still pulled it off... with a loud bang...
It consists of 3 coupling nuts, two carriage bolts, one regular hex bolt, two nuts and about an hour if I include the time going to the hardware store. The total on the parts was approx. $15.
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The cam belt won't matter. It is infinitely adjustable.
I never took the cam sprocket off. I just loosened the tensioner and slipped the belt off from the pump side. Plus the locking plate is there so it can't rotate. Car isn't in gear and has blocks behind the wheels so it's not rolling so the crank isn't going to rotate.
Any ideas on the o-ring I need for the lower left and right side?
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I'm now trying to figure out what size o-ring the cold-start lever is because I'm certainly not going to spend $80 to buy the full rebuild kit just to use a few O-rings. I'll pull it again if I have to should it still leak from somewhere.
Worst case I'll open it up tomorrow and take the O-ring down to the parts store but I'd much rather just get the part number or correct size to be sure.
Where are you finding a seal kit for $80?
The official Bosch seal kit (DGK-126) is only around $15 and it has every o-ring, washer, etc to do the whole pump...
Better yet, if you only want those 2 advance piston cover seals, they are Bosch part number 1460210300 and only around $1 each.
Find a local Bosch retailer/shop and walk in there and buy the exact seal you need made for your pump, or the whole seal kit for not even $20.
http://www.boschcarservice.us/Pages/ForYourVehicle.aspx
Be sure to select "US/Canada Diesel Service Dealer" in the top right and put your zip code and mileage radius.
The Bosch shops I've dealt with will even drop ship to your door if you are out of town or one is too far away from you.
Those seals for those covers are not a simple O-ring, they are a specific shape and rated to literally be submerged in diesel fuel their whole lives.
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The cam belt won't matter. It is infinitely adjustable.
I never took the cam sprocket off. I just loosened the tensioner and slipped the belt off from the pump side. Plus the locking plate is there so it can't rotate. Car isn't in gear and has blocks behind the wheels so it's not rolling so the crank isn't going to rotate.
Any ideas on the o-ring I need for the lower left and right side?
If you didn't take the cam pulley off then you haven't timed the engine properly.
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The cam belt won't matter. It is infinitely adjustable.
I never took the cam sprocket off. I just loosened the tensioner and slipped the belt off from the pump side. Plus the locking plate is there so it can't rotate. Car isn't in gear and has blocks behind the wheels so it's not rolling so the crank isn't going to rotate.
Any ideas on the o-ring I need for the lower left and right side?
If you didn't take the cam pulley off then you haven't timed the engine properly.
Why is that so important again? Why must that come off? I can see the flywheel TDC marks, cam lock plate fits like a glove and is securely in place..... Lock pin for the injection pump fit perfectly...
All I'm doing at this point is trying to seal the pump then re-install it. Then after verifying the leaks are gone, I'll pull the cover again and change the belt. I just won't do both at once. Plus if it does end up leaking worse I don't want fuel to get on the nice new belt. Seems logical to me....
So what am I doing wrong... I've read the Bentley and VinceWalden.
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It's virtually impossible to time everything properly without popping the cam pulley. You can't tension the belt with the cam pulley tight for instance - how are you taking up the slack with the tensioner without SOMETHING moving somewhere? One of the cam or crank pullies needs to move or there's going to be slack on the other side throwing your timing out as soon as you remove the locks.
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It's virtually impossible to time everything properly without popping the cam pulley. You can't tension the belt with the cam pulley tight for instance - how are you taking up the slack with the tensioner without SOMETHING moving somewhere? One of the cam or crank pullies needs to move or there's going to be slack on the other side throwing your timing out as soon as you remove the locks.
Okay that's good to know. So I should just crack the nut on the cam sprocket so it freely spins without the cam moving.... Then put the pump in, and tension the belt before locking it down?
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If you are not replacing the timing belt, the cam was timed correctly before and you are confident that you can tension the belt correctly (overtight is very expensive) then you can avoid loosening the sprocket and can get everything timed correctly.
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If you are not replacing the timing belt, the cam was timed correctly before and you are confident that you can tension the belt correctly (overtight is very expensive) then you can avoid loosening the sprocket and can get everything timed correctly.
Okay that makes me feel better. I am only replacing the injection pump right now, then once it proves to me it's not leaking anymore, I will do the belt and tensioner change and follow the guide for that another day.
Thanks for the reply. :)
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I guess I just don't understand NOT loosening it off. It takes about 3 minutes.
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There are a couple big "ifs" with the if you are confident and if it was done correctly before. I don't see how you could be confident if you didn't even know how to time it correctly. If you are already there you should learn now and make sure IMHO. If you are off more than a tooth or 2 for sure you will bend every valve in the cylinder head and have to fix that and learn then.
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There are a couple big "ifs" with the if you are confident and if it was done correctly before. I don't see how you could be confident if you didn't even know how to time it correctly. If you are already there you should learn now and make sure IMHO. If you are off more than a tooth or 2 for sure you will bend every valve in the cylinder head and have to fix that and learn then.
I'm going to be turning the engine manually a few rotations before I engage the starter. Bottom part of the belt is still on the crank and it's marked... I'm not terribly worried at this point because i'm not just going to start it up and cross my fingers.... I can also still see TDC perfectly lined up through the trans inspection plate so I think I'm good.
Appreciate the advice :)
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You don't show a pic of the crank sprocket/belt. The fact that your v-belt is still taut in the pictures with the pump removed makes it seem to me impossible that you marked the crank sprocket and belt at the crank. Your comment that the belt is still on the crank is incorrect unless you clamped it on there which again, is impossible if the v-belt is still in place. Once the belt is removed from one of the other sprockets (pump) it will jump several teeth at the crank. Once that happens, the marks on the belt for the other sprockets are misleading at best.
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acid,
The o-ring kit is only about 20 bucks from a diesel shop. The front mainshaft seal is another 18 bux.
It's common to change one seal and another starts to leak... they are probably all the same age. Better to change them all while the IP is out.
The IP woodruff key can fall out, down where the belt wraps the crank pulley. Be careful and use something to catch it if it does fall.
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I called all 3 shops on the Bosch locator and every one of them said they don't have it and can't order it.
What a bummer... Also all this timing talk has me thinking I'll just retime it from scratch and completely pull the belt.
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The o-ring kit is only about 20 bucks from a diesel shop. The front mainshaft seal is another 18 bux.
Every shop I call acts like I'm crazy to be asking for parts. "No sir, this is a *service* shop and we only fix vehicles here."
All the Bosch "dealers" can't even order a freaking part number.
Looks like I'm not getting any seals locally. Partsplace is the only one with a kit and it's $80. http://www.partsplaceinc.com/products/product-detail.aspx?sku=18053
I called them and asked if they sell the parts in smaller kits and the answer was they only sell that $80 kit.
Guess I have a lot of time to waste now.
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Have you changed the belt since purchasing the car? I don't ever trust the PO on maintenance history and always change the timing belt before placing a VW diesel into service just as a matter of course.
You can get the Bosch seal kits for a good price (better than many Bosch shops) from the seller angelofishes on eBay. He doesn't currently have the DGK126 up for sale, but in the past, I have e-mailed him and he has gotten them for me for a better price than Southwest Diesel which is the shop most local to me. Be sure to ask that he get the actual Bosch as he does have an unknown brand of DGK126 available. Southwest will also ship the kits if you want to go that route. The 17mm shaft seal is not included and if you want to get it, it is part number 1 460 283 312.
As an aside, for anyone rebuilding a VW 1.6TD or AAZ pump, you can either get the DGK121 which is lacking the o-ring for the cold start assembly or get the 126 kit and purchase the aneroid assembly o-ring separately. The aneroid o-ring is 1 460 210 347.
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Have you changed the belt since purchasing the car? I don't ever trust the PO on maintenance history and always change the timing belt before placing a VW diesel into service just as a matter of course.
You can get the Bosch seal kits for a good price (better than many Bosch shops) from the seller angelofishes on eBay. He doesn't currently have the DGK126 up for sale, but in the past, I have e-mailed him and he has gotten them for me for a better price than Southwest Diesel which is the shop most local to me. Be sure to ask that he get the actual Bosch as he does have an unknown brand of DGK126 available. Southwest will also ship the kits if you want to go that route. The 17mm shaft seal is not included and if you want to get it, it is part number 1 460 283 312.
As an aside, for anyone rebuilding a VW 1.6TD or AAZ pump, you can either get the DGK121 which is lacking the o-ring for the cold start assembly or get the 126 kit and purchase the aneroid assembly o-ring separately. The aneroid o-ring is 1 460 210 347.
I'm having an internal struggle over waiting on shipping or paying $80 and rebuilding my seals tonight.....
Again, I haven't changed the belt yet, but after the pump is fixed and not leaking, I will then change the belt. I just didn't want to do a bunch of stuff at once which makes troubleshooting later on down the road more difficult. The car ran and I just got tired of having to re-prime the pump after just 14 hours of sitting. So the timing was in sync, I'm just fixing the leaky cold start seals.
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Looks like I found a local dealer who sells what I'm after. Turns out he gave me a new part number which is *just* for the cold start seals. Here's the number: 2460223001
Also upon re-reading the Bentley after you guys got me all worried, they have no mention of locking or removing the crank sprocket. Once timing is correct, they lock the pump and cam then pull the belt. Then to reapply they have you rotate the crank manually back to TDC, then the belt is looped over the cam and pump sprocket first so there is no slack. Then they loosen the cam sprocket to tension the belt, then retighten the cam bolt. Then remove the pump locking pin, then you *manually* rotate the crank 2 times back to TDC and finally they send you off to do the pump timing.
After reading that I'm back to where I was.... Belt would be off, cam and injection pump sprockets would be locked. From there I can completely follow the instructions and get back to putting the belt on..... Even the Bentley says nothing about pulling the crank sprocket or locking it...
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I certainly never said to pull the crank sprocket or lock it and I don't think anyone else did either.
You should not tension the belt with the pump lock in place. For proper tensioning you need the cam sprocket loose, cam locked, pump unlocked and ALL slack moved to the tensioner area by rotating the pump CCW a few degrees and then back to TDC without going past. For proper tensioning on the 1.6, you also need the tension measuring tool.
I would certainly take this opportunity to change the belt.
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I certainly never said to pull the crank sprocket or lock it and I don't think anyone else did either.
I was trying to imply that the belt isn't slipping crank teeth dangerously using the method of removal that I did, especially with two other sprockets at known positions.
You should not tension the belt with the pump lock in place. For proper tensioning you need the cam sprocket loose, cam locked, pump unlocked and ALL slack moved to the tensioner area by rotating the pump CCW a few degrees and then back to TDC without going past. For proper tensioning on the 1.6, you also need the tension measuring tool.
I would certainly take this opportunity to change the belt.
We'll get there.... pump first. I want to manually turn it over a few times to verify I haven't screwed up. But first I have to get the pump seals then I can continue..... Thanks for the advice :)
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All I have said about the crank sprocket/belt alignment is that without having pulled off the crank pulley (not sprocket) and marked the timing belt to sprocket alignment, you cannot know what tooth of the belt is aligned with what tooth of the crank sprocket now that the belt has been loosened. Because, the belt to crank sprocket alignment is unknown at this point, your paint marks on the belt for the other sprockets are meaningless, misleading and paying attention to them could be catastrophic. Ignore the paint marks entirely and time the engine the correct way.
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Looks like I found a local dealer who sells what I'm after. Turns out he gave me a new part number which is *just* for the cold start seals. Here's the number: 2460223001 ...
Dude, my buddy can bring a full Bosch seal kit up to A2 today when he comes up. PM me if you are interested ($20).
(No mainshaft seal. )
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Looks like I found a local dealer who sells what I'm after. Turns out he gave me a new part number which is *just* for the cold start seals. Here's the number: 2460223001 ...
Dude, my buddy can bring a full Bosch seal kit up to A2 today when he comes up. PM me if you are interested ($20).
(No mainshaft seal. )
Ann Arbor is a good hour away from me. I'll pass but thanks.
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All I have said about the crank sprocket/belt alignment is that without having pulled off the crank pulley (not sprocket) and marked the timing belt to sprocket alignment, you cannot know what tooth of the belt is aligned with what tooth of the crank sprocket now that the belt has been loosened. Because, the belt to crank sprocket alignment is unknown at this point, your paint marks on the belt for the other sprockets are meaningless, misleading and paying attention to them could be catastrophic. Ignore the paint marks entirely and time the engine the correct way.
this. there is a procedure for the proper timing of these engines for a reason.
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I got the seals today from a diesel shop a few miles up the road from me. They seem amazingly knowledgeable compared to anywhere else. That's the guy that gave me the newer partnumber and when I showed up today he pulled a book with a huge exploded diagram of my exact pump, then had a list of part numbers for the various pieces or the whole kit. A+ for them.
I got a green seal for the cold start side (he said that was the newer number) and a black seal (he said that was the older number) for the plate side. They only had one of the new number and I wasn't terribly worried since he told me my pump came with the black ones.
I'm going to start pulling it open tonight here in a few, not going any farther than just the cold start seal and the seal behind the plate on the other side. I'll take some pics if I remember.
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Wow, so I literally couldn't remove a single bolt. I broke 2 screw drivers trying.... Was thinking I could get my sockets that grab stuck bolts but why chew it up and now have to replace the bolts?
I guess I have to get a really big flat-head screwdriver that exactly fits the bolts and then get this thing in a vice. Wasn't expecting that kind of torque on those bolts. I'm wondering almost if someone tried just over-tightening them to stop the leak. These things are ON here. :(
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The green seals are Viton and are biodiesel resistant. The black ones may or may not be but generally you can assume not. They are fine with pump diesel though.
Might want to try and impact screwdriver?
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The green seals are Viton and are biodiesel resistant. The black ones may or may not be but generally you can assume not. They are fine with pump diesel though.
Might want to try and impact screwdriver?
I'm not sure at this point. I'll have to figure something out. This can't be normal. It's so locked on there I'm afraid to try again. So far both screwdrivers just broke right in half without rounding off any of the bolt. So I have perfect mating surfaces and it hasn't "slipped" against it yet. Only "broke" against it :)
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I'd go for the impact driver... those screws might not have been turned for thirty years. Or, no antiseize got used the last go 'round.
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I have disassembled a large number of pumps and the bolts are often that tight on older pumps. My preferred approach is to clamp the pump in the vice and then use a bit holder style of screwdriver with the right size bit. I then place a 1/4" 6pt wrench around the bit where it is sticking out of the bit holder. With the bit in the slot of the bolt I use all by weight to push the bit holder/bit into the bolt and turn it using the wrench. That works for 99% of the bolts. For the other 1% I pound an 11/32 12pt socket over the head of the bolt and use a ratchet. I haven't ever had that fail.
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Well I finally got both sides off and was able to replace the O-rings. I was surprised to find the seal opposite of the cold-start advance a different looking size. Looks like it was just really smashed and extra "thin" which made it seem larger. Although I could be wrong, everyone has the same partnumber for both so it must just be from aging.
The cover that came off was soaked in fuel on the edge where the seal should have been stopping the fuel. So I think that this was my leak source and hopefully just these 2 seals will get me fixed up.
(http://i.imgur.com/59ZfIcql.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/sHzPddml.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ts7SClnl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/mDxHqfSl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0sCzUtPl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dNAFUhrl.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/ts7SClnl.jpg)
The part that clamps onto the cold start cable, shown in the above picture, should have a little bushing on either side of it so it fits tightly into the cold start lever. Both are gone in your pic.
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Spent some time cleaning up the area around the seals. Didn't want to get any debris or particles around them which may cause it to leak again. All in all that was a pretty simple job.... hardest part was getting the sprocket off, then getting those bolts out. I finally got a much larger screw-driver and sat indian style using my legs to hold the pump from rotating.
No vice or impact tools were needed.... w00t.
Now just to wait until I can put everything back together. More to come....
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The part that clamps onto the cold start cable, shown in the above picture, should have a little bushing on either side of it so it fits tightly into the cold start lever. Both are gone in your pic.
Are you referring to those little metal washers that were there around the lever itself? I put everything back that came off it for sure...
Perhaps are you looking for the little washer in the photo north-east of the cover there on the towel? There's one there, then two washers on the left side with one of those washers containing a little "bend" which I assume is what you are mentioning. There was also a little C-clip that isn't showing in the photo which was the first part to come out.
Probably just my bad photos. Do you have a picture of what you are referring to? I already have the pump assembled and wrapped in a garbage bag back out in the garage.
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I guess I'll simply elaborate on what the procedure was in case anyone was interested in what I did...
1. Made sure cold start arm was set to the most clockwise-position so there was no advance or travel left on the arm.
2. Pulled C-Clip off cold start lever with needle nose pliers.
3. Beneath that was a big thick washer and a curved-thinner washer in the shape of a C below that.
4. Then I removed the cold start advance arm.
5. Then the two bolts around the advance housing cover.
6. Then I removed the metal bracket which limits the travel of the cold start lever and it's washer before the bolt. (Noting it's clocking and position)
7. Finally the cover came off and I was then able to snap photo #1 & #2 of my previous post.
8. Removed the old seal using a small hook.
9. Installed new seal.
Then I just reversed to put back. So the cover went on, then I installed the bracket limiting the cold start arm movement and it's washer, then I put the arm on, then the curved-thinner washer, then the big thick washer, and finally the cold start arm went back on in the correct clocking (fully rotated clockwise against the bracket limiting travel) and then the C-Clip was put on over that.
Then I just flipped it over and did the other side and took the photos with the spring and 2 metal shims installed above it. That side was much simpler.
If I'm missing a part or something let me know before I put it back on the car.... Thanks for the observation and time :)
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Yes you are missing parts. That y shaped lever needs two nylon or plastic bushings in between the lever itself and that round piece that the actual solid cable goes through and then gets tightened on by the screw. The cable lock should float in the center of the Y lever. Otherwise you are loosing cable travel as that part shifts from one side to the other in the oversized hole.
Catch my drift? Bushings would take up the slack you currently have in the system. Well, maybe not if you cable isn't currently attached. But once it is it will bang from side to side rather than take a rotational route as the lever does its work.
Let me see if I have a pic somewhere. Dang no can find. I found some nylon ones that only needed a slight bit of internal filing to make them work for me. OD was perfect. Hardware store, 30 or so cents a piece.
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/7msonbk814m9bfn/nylon_bushings.JPG)
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PS, I mighta hacked a sleeve with some large heatshrink on one of my IPs. Reduced the floppy factor.
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Here's a pic of the actual bushings.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/libbybapa/100_2672_zpsbdf90d7a.jpg)
They are a VW part. I have not been able to get them from Bosch but they are still available new from VW. Part # is 068130337. Mk1 Autohaus has them for $5 each.
http://www.mk1autohaus.com/Diesel-Cold-Start-Aid-Bushing_p_6583.html
Busdepot wants $4 each:
http://www.busdepot.com/068130337
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Phew, I was thinking you meant something on the other side of the arm.
Yeah I noticed when I took the cable off that it had some play. Figured that was normal. I'll find where to get these locally and grab one at lunch.
Appreciate all the help guys :)
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The wiper motor may be ok. The Bentley manual has a thorough method for determining the fault in the wiper system. My wipers used to operate very slowly then one day they just stopped. I started going through the list of things to check. The final diagnosis was a bad fuse/relay panel or bad wire between the panel and the wiper motor. I jumped the wipers directly from the battery (with a fuse!) and they worked like champs!
I'm getting ready to figure out the problem and fix it right. I'll keep ya updated.
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Okay I got everything all buttoned up and ready to go.
I was able to stick a thick 1ft socket extension bar in one of the cam sprocket holes such that it would lie down flat on the side of the head. Then I removed the cam locking plate and held the tool down to keep the sprocket secure while I broke it free. Worked like a charm. Then I put the cam lock back in.
After that I got the belt back on and it took me a few tries to get it such that the crank was still at TDC after the belt was tensioned. On the 3rd try all the slack was on the camshaft side and tensioning the belt finally left the crank alone and turned the free-turning cam sprocket instead.
Now I understand why they say to loosen the cam sprocket. It was impossible to get the belt over it without taking it off. So I took it off, then I was able to hold the belt on the sprocket and slide it back onto the camshaft. And of course the time that it tensioned correctly was the time the belt rotated that sprocket instead of the crank.
I then removed the cam lock and injection pump locking pin and started rotating the engine clockwise (facing the drivers front tire from the passenger side of the car). I didn't need to use any tools to rotate the engine since I noticed that the alternator fins could be turned by hand. Due to the V-belt on the alternator providing some leverage it would turn the crank. So next time you need to turn the engine manually try just using your fingers on the alternator cooling fins. Worked like a charm.
I turned the engine over probably 5 or 6 full revolutions because I was paranoid. I felt no resistance other than a "variable" resistance and the sound of air compressing as it was hitting the compression stroke. Still with only my hands I was able to turn it over without any strange noises or "stops".
While turning the engine over I never had to force anything. The rotating force required was the same that I felt while turning it over to find TDC at the beginning before I pulled the belt and pump. I think that means I'm good to go but I still haven't tried starting it yet. Figured I'd post here and make sure and then wait until tomorrow since it's now 9pm and too late to make a big racket next to my neighbors bedroom window.
I think I found the issue with the vacuum loss too. The hard plastic thin hose running from the T-fitting on the (water/vac pump?) up to the passenger side firewall appears to have cracked. I think that goes inside the car and likely is used by the HVAC system. I'll get a rubber join piece and stick it back together.
I didn't get any pics because it's quite dark out but I'll take some tomorrow. So does it sound like I'm safe to prime the pump and try to start it? My plan was to use a funnel and pour diesel into the fuel injection pump then leave the injector nozzles cracked and crank until I see fuel, then tighten and try to start it. I assume this will be a difficult start so I plan to plug the block heater in too so it's nice and toasty.
Sorry for the long winded post guys. Thanks :)
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Sounds like you've done everything just right. 😊 What did you time it to?
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Sounds like you've done everything just right. 😊 What did you time it to?
That's always good news :). Mine is the 1980 without the yellow dot, so according to Bentley I should be at 0.86mm plus or minus 0.02mm.
I was curious if I plan to run bio/wvo/etc if there's a setting that's the best for tolerating other fuel sources? I can see myself playing with other fuel sources in the future and my gut says to not try using the "improved performance" setting of 0.98mm. I guess my gas engine knowledge there is that advanced timing is only for high octane but it makes more power and better fuel economy slightly. Not sure whether that matters on diesel when switching between various fuels. I'll have to research that more.
I'm excited to try starting it tomorrow, but also quite nervous. Don't want to break anything.
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Diesels don't have to worry about detonation so the gasser logic doesn't apply there. Generally the base timing specifications have been chosen with emissions in mind, in particular NOx levels which just happen to increase with advance. The other nice thing with diesels is most things that improve performance (other than adding fuel) also improve economy. A little bit more timing advance is one of those things.
Someone else will have to chime in on the alternative fuels. I could see SLIGHTLY more advance helping though the VE pump will add more advance on its own when thicker fuel is used.
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isn't it more that the factors that cause detonation in a gasser are essentially the same factors that enable the diesel cycle?
WVO differs from biodiesel mostly in that there's still the glycerols attached to the oil. And it's not mixed with methanol. And it has water in it. And bits of potato and the colonel's 11 herbs and spices. I'm not excited about WVO.
Waste engine oil is enticing as an adulterant because it's also free/cheap but the stuff that turns it black, some of that is probably pretty abrasive.
Spent ATF is a good diesel adulterant too, but the friction modifiers can be problematic if you use too much.
I am intrigued by the idea of setting up a polishing tank and dumping all my WEO, WATF, and maybe even some old frying oil in it, and running it through a regular diesel filter / water separator and then a sub-micron depth filter until it's reasonably clean, and then adding it as up to 20%, in the summer. I'll never get the money out of it that i'd put into it, but it's still an attractive concept.
I am under the impression that the most common brake fluids are glycol based, so all they would do is make you smoke more.
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Well I tried starting it and nothing blew up. I wasn't able to get it going but I did hear it pop a few times like it was trying. I noticed fuel coming out around the injectors so I tightened them and tried again. Each time after I tried cranking, I pulled the hose off the fuel filter to top it back off with fuel using a funnel since it seemed to not be delivering fuel (no popping). Each time it would take a bit more fuel and some air bubbles would come flying out of the funnel. Then I'd start some more, get one or two pops then no fuel again. I did this a few times before I ran out of time.
After about 5 minutes I noticed another pool of diesel under the car and it seems to be leaking from the return hose on the injectors. I went to pull the hose and tighten it and it crumbled and broke leaving part of it still around the injector. So I'm going to have to get a cheap hose to replace the return lines before I try again.
However it did some quite eager to start when there was fuel. I could get a few combustion events going but not enough to fully start the car though. More to come....
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Came back after work to find another puddle on the ground. This time it appears to be the fuel return lines that go from injector to injector. I picked up a set on my way to dinner and will install those when I get a chance. Bottom of the fuel pump however is *dry*. W00t.
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A couple of things to note:
The IP pumps lots of fuel back out to the tank while using comparatively little for the injectors. This circulation cools and lubricates the IP while it maniacally slaves on top of a 100oC engine.
You might want to setup a quart bottle of clean fuel with clear lines to and from the IP, to deal with just the pump and not the fuel supply. Once the engine is running off the bottle, you can stop and hook up the filter and tank lines.
At the moment the IP bottom is dry... at operating speeds, the IP case internal pressure can range from 40psi to 150psi.
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I replaced the lines from injector to injector and the one from the top of the pump to the 1st injector. Still wasn't able to turn it over but it seems the battery is now starting to lose some charge. I left the block heater plugged in for an hour or so and I'm going to run back out and try to start it.....
Otherwise I'll play with it more this weekend... Somehow got stuck with work deliverables this weekend so not much time for fun. :(
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A couple of things to note:
The IP pumps lots of fuel back out to the tank while using comparatively little for the injectors. This circulation cools and lubricates the IP while it maniacally slaves on top of a 100oC engine.
You might want to setup a quart bottle of clean fuel with clear lines to and from the IP, to deal with just the pump and not the fuel supply. Once the engine is running off the bottle, you can stop and hook up the filter and tank lines.
At the moment the IP bottom is dry... at operating speeds, the IP case internal pressure can range from 40psi to 150psi.
Does this still apply if I was just able to start it a few days ago before pulling the pump? I have a gallon fuel tank I bought new to fill up with diesel when priming... could I just pull the cap and dunk the two hoses in that because it's clean? I do not have clear hoses but I plan to get them. Closest place wants $20 for just one hose.
Unrelated but cool side story: I had a neighbor just come over and ask if I could jump start his car. Figured why not, so I drove my truck across the street and jumped him. Then he says he's a mechanic and a collision repair welder... he immediately started asking about the Rabbit and said he thinks I should pull the fuel filter and pre-fill it with diesel to get it going. Also said he'd help me weld my other car (97 Geo Metro 1.0 3cyl 5pd) which has a rusted out frame horn since I hooked him up tonight. SCORE!
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I would use that gallon jug as the base and just get some clear hose from the Home Depot or hardware store to make it work. No sense buying the expensive stuff for a test project. But keep the hoses handy as you may find they come into use more than you might care to have them do that.
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Tyler:
In your post you mention two pressure numbers
At the moment the IP bottom is dry... at operating speeds, the IP case internal pressure can range from 40psi to 150psi.
I am aware of the lower value at idle but do you have an RPM for the second? The 150? I was under the impression that at 75 lbs we would be at full advance on the piston and that the pumps didn't do much more than that. So I have installed, twice now, a 1-100 psi gauge to my IP. I have blown both of them and was looking at a 120 psi one for a Christmas present. Not finding what I wanted I just asked for the one I have for the oil pressure, a 0-150. I do know that I could bury the IP pressure if I held it in third and took the RPMs up past my usual shift point but I never thought it would be that high. I recently had a high rev situation on the engine and couldn't get to the key fast enough. After that I noticed instead of sitting at 43 lbs at idle it was more like 65. Popped it again, dang it!
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Chalk it to poor memory... pressures that high may only be for the 107A pump, others may run 110psi-120psi at ~4000rpm crank.
Mark in the UK and others on the hillbilly board measured some pumps in that lower range, and some bosch/onan test docs seem to be in that range. (7 - 7.6 bar)
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So any major tricks to priming the pump.... I'm not having any luck. I got it to almost start a few times, firing on about 3 cylinders for maybe 4 solid seconds. Smelled burnt fuel out the rear tail pipe as well. I don't think it's injection pump timing or timing belt issues.... I think simply that this pump isn't primed properly. I sat and held a funnel on the IN hose and gravity fed it for a good 20 minutes and just kept accepting more and more fuel slowly but surely. And by slowly I mean about a teaspoon every 30 seconds then I'd top it back off.
No puddles on the ground except for very very minor dripping from my bleeding. Pump is still dry on the bottom.
I think I just haven't primed it right. I tried sticking both hoses in a gallon of diesel and it still wouldn't fire or run. I think the pump itself is just shot at this point. Or I need to mityvac the out-hose? (I was planning to go buy one tomorrow at harbor freight for $40 and give it a try)
Open to all suggestions
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Any local places in Michigan that have something like a cheap electric diesel fuel inline pump? I think that would solve this issue but I don't feel like waiting weeks on shipping.
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I'd get the mighty-vac (or the knockoff). It's diesel basics to get the IP full before cranking.
If you don't see circulation from the container and back during cranking with the IP full, the inline pump might help. Or, you could hang the supply container higher and a collection container lower.
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PS:
The IP will fill slowly via gravity if not cranking, the opening in the OUT bolt is only .55mm.
When running, the flow from the OUT bolt is around a quart a minute.
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Got a Mityvac so today I'll give it a shot when I'm home from work. Also ordered a Mr Gasket Diesel inline electric pump which should arrive in the mail in a few days.
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I ran the pump on the OUT line and pulled until I saw fuel, then after some more vacuum I saw a bunch of bubbles come through which turned to very very small bubbles. Tried to start the car and no difference. However after this time I noticed a big white cloud of smoke behind the car.
I'm starting to question if I installed the pump at the wrong timing or something at this point. When I was cleaning it the main shaft might have rotated a bit, I'm now curious if it's possible to be 180* out or something strange. I may end up retiming the pump just to be sure. My gut says the pump timing is incorrect but we'll see.....
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It's very easy to be 180 out. At this point that what it looks like if you have white cloud and no start
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the keyway on the ip should be around 10 or 11 o'clock IIRC, it is simple to take the nut off and look and see. Make sure you are on the TDC mark for compression and see where it is. If it is 180 it would be around 5 o'clock so it isn't like you will be just a fuzz off. If it is close then it is a matter of the pump timing or air in the lines still.
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the keyway on the ip should be around 10 or 11 o'clock IIRC, it is simple to take the nut off and look and see. Make sure you are on the TDC mark for compression and see where it is. If it is 180 it would be around 5 o'clock so it isn't like you will be just a fuzz off. If it is close then it is a matter of the pump timing or air in the lines still.
I specifically remember the keyway was at 10-o-clock when I took it off, so when it was time to put it back on I just rotated the sprocket clockwise until the pump sprocket was back at 10-o-clock. Then I locked the pump with the pin and put the timing belt on and proceeded to set timing.
My gut says something is wrong because I've never had it not start after priming the pump. Also never had white smoke behind the car when trying to start. I guess I have some checking to do.
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White is unburnt diesel. So it makes sense your 180 out
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From what previous I did read you had an empty IP and filter. If both were empty even if you pull a vacuum on them, there still is probably some air left. Use nothing but diesel, not any fuel additive in the filter etc, and bottle feed it like it was suggested. Once it lights, switch it back over to the tank supply letting as little air in as possible. Nothing sounds too off here to me. If that doesn't work then we could troubleshoot from there.
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I actually ordered a Mr. Gasket 12D inline diesel fuel pump which came in the mail today at lunch.
I will put it inline and run 12v to it while I try cranking the car. I already tried sticking both hoses into a fresh gallon jug of Diesel but that was before I got the MityVac and pulled a lot of air out.
We'll see how it goes. It's pouring out today so I may not get to it until it's nicer outside.
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Okay after a quick test I think the timing is off on the pump sprocket. After quickly spinning the engine over to TDC and looking at the pump timing mark on the inside sprocket it's advanced too far to get the locking pin in place easily now.
I don't recall it being that far off when I did the tightening procedure but now I'm sure that's the problem. I'll pull the belt again under better weather and redo it. At least the cam lock fit right in when the crank was at TDC so the valve-train is still timed properly. I think only the pump is wrong now so we're getting closer :)
I'm going to wait until I can start the car and drive before I install the electric inline pump. No sense until it's sound and only has prime issues.
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W00t got it running! Retimed the belt and without any priming it started running on 2 or 3 cylinders for a bit. I had to give it nearly 75% throttle to keep it running. Then all at once it cleared and the revs shot up. Then after letting it warm up I pushed the cold start advance all the way in and the idle dropped without dying. No more white smoke and no drips under the car whatsoever!
I think I'll take it for a spin and then start focusing on the other issues like the vac leak and installing the inline fuel pump now that I know it keeps prime for roughly 3 days now. Looks like it may be reliable enough to become the daily here soon :)
More to come guys and thanks a ton for your help!
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Right on!
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my nails will never be the same.
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I noticed my alternator has a single-wire "V" output which has nothing hooked up. Is this perhaps one of those signal outputs I can use for a Tachometer? I can snap a picture if needed but if that is what I think it is I want to get tach installed tomorrow.
I drove the car around and seemed to smoke a little more than I remember it and the car wanted to buck more than I remember it until it warmed up.... Is that a sign my timing is off on the pump slightly? It drives and such but at partial low-load throttle it's more "bucky" until I give it some throttle and accelerate then it smooths out again.
Also noticing more coolant leaking out right around the vacuum pump. Is that a sign of a vac pump issue itself or just the hosing around the pumps? Does it need a gasket or something?
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It's probably a "W" terminal on the alternator. It outputs a high frequency AC signal that drives the stock VW tach. Aftermarket tachs can't understand that signal but there is a converter box manufactured by Dakota Digital which can be put in line between the alternator signal and any standard tach.
There's no coolant passages anywhere near the vacuum pump; you have a leak somewhere else that is ending up there, probably one of the flanges on the head or possibly a leak in the hard pipe going along the front and side of the block.
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I had a fuel hose on the out-line going to injector #1 come off which required a push start to reprime the pump. Now I really need that inline pump in case that happens again. Now of course I guess I need to ziptie those little hoses so they can't fly off again.
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Them little hoses should have very little pressure, decent tubing should hold well without leaking.
I'd also check that the tank return line isn't kinked or plugging. Maybe blow it out with compressed air.
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I have found the trick on the little hoses is that you need to push them all the way down and then just give them a light tug upwards to tighten them against the nipple. If you really want to you can hold the bottom down with a pair of needle nosed pliers and pull up to tighten.
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Well I've had no other problems since putting the hose back on. I'll zip tie them tonight for peace of mind. I might be in need of motor mounts because the engine shaking and bucking seems quite bad when going slow in 1st gear. Also light throttle at around 45mph in 4th gear has the engine kinda oscillating forwards and backwards in a feedback loop until I clutch-in or floor the throttle which instantly clears it up.
I noticed on a 40 mile drive that it gets quite warm in the cabin even with no heater as long as I keep the heat circulation lever maxed. Heat radiates out of the little defroster holes on the dash but if I open the vents I get outside air. Still haven't got around to fiddling with the heater fan yet.
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Advanced the timing a bit and wow does it start easier and not want to die or miss now at low-load. Drivability has improved significantly. I think that was the bucking issue for the most part. Also not nearly as much smoke on a cold start. I'm really coming around to this car. Very fun to drive around in and absolutely simple to work on....
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So I'm curious now how to best lower my final drive ratios and get the rpm down....
Seems like I'm in 4th gear after about 30-35mph and even going 50mph the rpm is very high. I can't imagine how much better the mileage would be if the engine wasn't screaming. I find it easy to take off from a stop in 2nd gear without using much throttle or having to lug the engine.
I have the factory 4 speed manual from 1980 on the 1.5.... am I just looking at a final drive swap or do I need a 5 speed? I could have swore I read somewhere that one of the best mileage transmissions was actually a 4 speed where 4th was higher than 5th.... wondering if that's the one I have or not? I'd love to lower RPM and I'm even willing to play with tires if a much taller tire will fit here.
Open to all suggestions on further MPG mods.
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Maybe post your tranny code, found at the bottom of the bellhousing. Here's some info on trannys & ratios. http://www.brokevw.com/020ratios.html
Taller tires can help a little, under-inflated tires can hurt a lot.
Fine tuning the engine with good compression, matched injector pressures and accurate timing helps a lot.
Driving slowly helps more than almost anything.
Plenty of aerodynamic modding info at ecomodder.com.
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If you have an 80 transmission and it is a 4 spd then your gear ratios are 1-4 as follows: 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 With a 3.89 final ratio
The FF or FN transmissions had these ratios for 1-5 gears with the same 3.89 final. 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 The jump for mileage is in the reduction from .91 to .71. I think this is where you are thinking.
Funny on the prices on these old FF or FN transmissions. I just picked one up for 80 bucks and then noticed one for 650 on Craigslist in the local commuting area. Hard to test these things on the bench without a heavy duty drill.
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So I'm looking for an FF or FN transmission then.... I definitely think this thing has too low of gearing for top gear.
Is the 5 spd swap just a matter of linkage and trans? Is this a well known swap? Having an 80 with a 1.5 makes it super hard to search when 90% of threads are about 1.6 or above.
I also was curious about turning down the fuel screw a bit since I feel like it has more power than I need. How far can I go with turning it down? That should help economy as well a bit too right? My goal is to go for pure highway fuel economy and use it for trips from Michigan to Illinois to visit family. 460 miles should be about a single tank or hopefully more.
I don't mind running around 55-60mph but I don't really want to go much faster until the revs can be lowered. I just know that it's not as efficient as it could be thus I don't like screaming the engine at 75-80mph.
I recently did a coast down test and at exactly 40mph when a certain signpost was "hit" I clutched-in and coasted to my street. In my other vehicles they would arrive at my street going approximately 10-15mph and my truck about 4mph. The Rabbit was surprisingly going around 26mph....Impressive!
I definitely want to find a 5 speed. Is the 4 speed I have desirable enough to be worth selling or trying to trade for a 5 speed? Or am I looking at just buying a 5 speed outright? Thanks again for all the traffic and interest in the thread guys :)
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Swap is just linkage and transmission. Rather straight forward.
Turn down the fuel screw a little bit at a time. Like 1/8 turns. You will know you are too lean when you try to take off uphill or with the car loaded and it just won't rev up, sort of bogs down and wants to die about the time you are putting the clutch to it.
Sorry your trip destinations sound terrible. MI to IL?? Relies?? 460 miles is 46 per gallon if you don't have an extended tank supply. I often rode with the extra 1 gallon can in the car. I was pushing a 450 mile round trip route and depending on how much running around in town I did I needed that last 1 gallon to get me to the pump without stalling out on the road 500 feet away. Stupid STOP sign on a hill and lots of traffic at times. Just ran the pump dry.
Rabbits do Roll don't they. Unless your brakes are dragging.
Some folks would like to have a good 4 spd transmission in place of a broken one so my guess is that you should be able to sell it. The 5 spd will need the linkage and the shifter and some don't care for the extra work it takes to get that turned around. Look to buy then look to sell. You might find a swapper or exchange.
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Ja, that early GC tranny is worse total reduction than the eco-diesel AVX. An FN would be way better... lower your current revs by ~27%.
On stock tires, at only 60mph, that engine is turning about 3500rpm. An FN would bring that to 2550rpm. ;D
That could take the mpg from the mid thirties to the mid forties.
(23.5" tires could reduce rpm by another 100rpm. )
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After a long session with the MityVac and troubleshooting vac-hoses; I was able to find and fix another vacuum leak. The hard plastic hose that goes into the vacuum distribution block was not holding vacuum or actuating the reciruclation-flap. So then I pulled the hose on the inside of the dash going to the distribution block and hooked the Mity-vac up to that and was able to build vacuum as well as for the first time hear the flaps actuate. Then I realized the leak must be the rubber elbow connection right off the hardline. Replaced that and BAM now the system holds vacuum right off the main vacuum pump line and I can move the lever around in the car and hear the flaps opening and closing as I switch from defrost to heat to A/C. It was too late to start the car after getting it back together due to noise but that should fix that issue. I'm curious if the A/C will turn on or not now.... I'll check tomorrow.
I also tested my vac-pump by hooking my Mityvac up to where the plastic hard-line went and with the engine running it was bouncing off 15-psi at idle. This was lower than I expected but I still had the brake booster connected and was only Teeing into the connection. Perhaps my brake booster is leaking as well.... I couldn't get the brake booster line off the plastic fitting with the other vacuum lines so I couldn't directly test it.
All in all I think I'm getting closer. After pulling the rain tray I realized I'm not able to get to the Heater Blower unless I remove what appears to bolts coming up front the inside of the dash. I can't spot any blown fuses so I think the fan-resistor is probably the culprit but I couldn't get to it to find out. I really don't want to pull the dash so hopefully I can get that blower-cover removed without going through all that effort.
More to come....
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Confirmed that the vacuum actuation lever on the HVAC now works. Looks like the wiring in the dash was really hacked apart by someone who tried to rewire it. I'm thinking I may just pull the molex for the blower-fan and try to manually wire it up to see if it still works. I think I just have a wiring problem at the moment. I'll take some pics tonight.
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I'm really upset with the wiring situation here. There's multiple spliced wires and dangling connectors to the point I can't trust it. I'm going to directly bypass that and aim for the fan over the next day or two with the time off. Here's some photos and hopefully if any of those connectors are recognized please let me know. I assume some of that is for the missing radio but I bought the car without one and have no idea what the connections on the back should be.
I also can see a single plastic-slot grounded(verified with meter) wire hanging below the dash near the shifter and a bit farther up in there is an identical but red wire that has no current that I can detect hitting it. Neither are plugged in to anything. I also see what appears to be a variable resistor which was definitely just screwed in under the dash and not stock and wired into some wires running to the drivers kick panel.
My gut feeling says that some part of the blower-circuit failed (like the grounds I read about here) and the person perhaps wired the variable resistor as a fan-speed controller? Otherwise what use is there for a variable resistor under the dash like that? I can get more photos but I'm going to need some help figuring that part out. Excuse the photos, it's below 20 degrees out and it's just too cold to hold the camera steady.
(http://i.imgur.com/Q8crDEAl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/g7uofxml.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3Y9sNpyl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/n80iO5Yl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/upqpfmNl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/h4qQPyVl.jpg)
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No worries, dude. All that rat's nest is radio wiring (Blaupunkt, methinks). The pot is a front/rear fader.
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No worries, dude. All that rat's nest is radio wiring (Blaupunkt, methinks). The pot is a front/rear fader.
I was hoping that was all radio wiring but the spliced stuff worried me. I was under the dash on my back with a flashlight and I think the molex is *way* up there in a spot that's going to be difficult to reach. I may get a coat-hanger and try to fish it up there to avoid pulling the dash which is so cracked and old I'm sure to break it.
I also noticed a very very slight residue of dampness when on the passenger side floor specifically right at the kick panel where the carpet kinda flaps over with velcro. Car did see rain about 3 or 4 days ago now. Yet the area seems free of water damage or surface rust when I peeled back the carpet a bit. I did notice there was some glue holding the carpet on that I didn't remember seeing on the drivers side. I wonder if that's a sign of a previous water related repair like a seal or something.
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MK1s are notorious for windshield leaks at the lower corners. That and missing/cracked raintray over the fresh air inlet. I'd ensure the drains in the cowl are clear of debris that can back up water. Even the sealant in the cowl/firewall areas can shrink and leak.
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Ok good news! I was able to manually power up the fan although it did sound a little rough as it first spun up for about 1 second then cleared up. I ran it on the highest speed for about 20 seconds.
What I found was odd is that I must have the strange switched-ground setup because I first was thinking I'd jumper the 4-speed fan switch with 12v like I've been reading here. As soon as I started getting close with the probe end I saw a small spark and backed off quickly. Upon testing I have ground being switched by the fan switch and then when I pulled the heater fan molex I noticed it was black and not white.
So I figured I'd reverse the instructions for trying to hotwire the fan and I decided to use 12v on the black/red wire and then ground to one of the other pins. Sure as hell it fired up!
Now I think I know exactly what the problem has to be.... I'll just run a dedicated 12v wire through the firewall with a 16amp fuse and tie it directly into the other side of the molex that mates up the the Black/Red cable on the blower-side of the molex. That should cure my issues and still let me use the fan switch on the dash without being too janky.
I'll also get some pics of the rain tray whenever I get the time.
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.... I'll just run a dedicated 12v wire through the firewall with a 16amp fuse and tie it directly into the other side of the molex that mates up the the Black/Red cable on the blower-side of the molex. That should cure my issues and still let me use the fan switch on the dash without being too janky.
Keep in mind, the original supply of 12V to the fan is switched through the accessory feed and the load reduction relay... so, I'd be careful to not backfeed the switched accessory bus, and of course remember to turn off the fan or put the dedicated 12V line on a switched relay to avoid killing the battery when the engine is not running.
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I'd be careful to not backfeed the switched accessory bus
Thanks for that advice, I was going to do that and you saved me. I'll make sure to just cap off and electrical tape the original wire to that molex then and only connect my dedicated-and-fused 12v wire directly to the molex.
Also is it a problem if I use 10 gauge wire and a 20-amp fuse? I got one of the non-vw standard inline fuse holders. It came with a 30amp but I swapped it out for a 20. Since the next smaller size in that fuse family is a 15amp I decided against that because it's 1 amp less than the original 16amp fuse and I figure with 35 years of age this motor likely needs a bit of extra help. Will that be an issue?
Thanks again for all the help, this is really coming along :)
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Also is it a problem if I use 10 gauge wire and a 20-amp fuse? I got one of the non-vw standard inline fuse holders. It came with a 30amp but I swapped it out for a 20. Since the next smaller size in that fuse family is a 15amp I decided against that because it's 1 amp less than the original 16amp fuse and I figure with 35 years of age this motor likely needs a bit of extra help. Will that be an issue?
AWG10 is beefy enough, for sure. lol.
I would go for the 15A fuse though, the existing wiring is only rated for 16A... and 20A is 25% overload. I'm not confident the old connectors and motor will tolerate the extra current.
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Could be a bad measurement but I could have swore I only got 6 volts when I tested through the switch with a wire ran to the + battery connection, is that bad? I was able to turn it and watch the current move between each leg however. Wondering if I should just run a ground cable directly to the other side of the switch after removing the wire that used to be there (backfeed).
Plus since this is a ground switched car, doesn't that mean I want to avoid backfeeding ground and not positive 12v? I basically at this point think it's safest to isolate both sides and just wire ground to the 4-way switch and then 12v to the black/red on the molex then directly to the battery through my 15amp fuse... seems logical enough as long as both sides original wires get capped and taped off first. I'll solder in the two wires unless that's a bad idea or something.
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Hrrrmm... I haven't got a Rabbit book handy ATM, but all my other MK1 books within reach show the hot feed getting switched through the resistors before the fan and the fan to ground.
I'd try to get a bona-fide diagram for the AC model before cutting and splicing.
I'd check the meter setup too, there should never be a spark when probing, unless measuring current and even then not if probes are in place before the circuit is energized.
HNY,
TD
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Hrrrmm... I haven't got a Rabbit book handy ATM, but all my other MK1 books within reach show the hot feed getting switched through the resistors before the fan and the fan to ground.
I'd try to get a bona-fide diagram for the AC model before cutting and splicing.
I'd check the meter setup too, there should never be a spark when probing, unless measuring current and even then not if probes are in place before the circuit is energized.
HNY,
TD
It's odd because I'm seeing ground at the 4-speed switch.... That must be the issue in reverse then.
Here's the thread I was looking at that mentioned 1980 switched differently. http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/43201-Need-Wiring-Diagram-for-1980-Rabbit-Fan-Blower-Circuit-or-help-with-question (post #4)
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You hit the jackpot with that thread.
Your plan should work. I'd feed 12V through a relay triggered by the switched-hot as discussed earlier. I'd also replace the ground wire first to see if that alone solves it.
It is possible one of the AC relays is bad... the ones in the engine compartment are more vulnerable to the elements and corrosive vapors if the battery is close. (I had to shunt around one in my 86TD after its AC died.)
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Well I wired it up completely bypassing the main switch harness and left the molex unplugged. Seems to work flawlessly and I have all four speeds. Even though the car was warmed up I still was getting cold air out of the hand-vents. I think the vacuum actuators may not all be functioning properly or it's by design (not sure).
What I find is that the outside air vent flap (in the rain tray) will only close if I move the temp-slider all the way to max-cold. If I move the lever back to heat it opens up again. I don't know if that's normal but since the flap is open I believe thats where the cold air is coming from. If I put my hand up by the defrost area and turn the fan on I can feel hot air coming out but then if I switch the hand-vent open only cold air comes out.
At least the vacuum system holds pressure and works better than it did when I got it..... I started spraying some rust neutralizer up in the rain tray area and started taking some photos. Tonight I'll spray some rubber sealant around the heater-fan box in the rain tray. I have the earlier version that has no screen over the cold-air door so I'll rig up something to keep debris out of there. I do have a plastic rain tray cover but it's not enough on its own to keep leaves out. I'll fab up something.
I'll post my photos after taking them off the camera tonight. Cheers.
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...Even though the car was warmed up I still was getting cold air out of the hand-vents. I think the vacuum actuators may not all be functioning properly or it's by design (not sure)...
What I find is that the outside air vent flap (in the rain tray) will only close if I move the temp-slider all the way to max-cold.
This is normal for Rabbits, as I recall.
Side vents in the dash are always fresh air.
Max-cold is the same as "re-circ" in newer cars.
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This is normal for Rabbits, as I recall.
Side vents in the dash are always fresh air.
Max-cold is the same as "re-circ" in newer cars.
Wow, I checked my manual before reading your post and was absolutely dumbfounded to find the exact same thing. Who would design it that way? So when it's -5* outside I have to put my hands *where* to warm them up? Yeah I'm being overly dramatic :)
I think the first thing I'm going to do is figure out how redirect the foot vents solely into the main vents since I need the air out of there well before the foot area. However finding that out made me feel good about my repair and glad I don't have to tear the dash apart.
Tomorrow I'm going to mess with the car some more and apply more rust proofing and sealant, then fab up some screen over the entire rain tray to keep debris out when finished. I looked in the owners book and it's odd that the car was purchased in this county originally yet I bought it from an hour away. I guess I'm bringing it back home :)
Owners manual was filled out with stickers over the gas towing instructions which tells me it's a factory diesel for sure and not a swap. It was lightly driven apparently, purchase date was September 16th, 1980. It has the entire service booklet filled out with authentic VW dealer stamps all the way up to 1985 where it only had 55,000 miles (84,000 right now). In the last 30 years it only gained less than 30,000 miles which is impressive and received authentic dealer maintenance the first 5 years. :)
I also have a repair bill for 2 shocks and struts which were done in 1985 and then a stapled copy over it where they warrantied the same two shocks again in 1991 for only the cost of labor. Very interesting and fun going through the paper trail of effects I found in the glovebox.
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(dupe post, I'll edit with some photos here soon)
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One of the first things I did to my first rabbit was to fix the seals on the outer vents, lol.
That was after a drive between NYC & Detroit got so damn cold, I stuffed spare socks from my luggage into those mothers so we didn't freeze.
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My center two vents aren't blowing any air at all. I'm seeing guides for fixing the side vent open/close lever but what about the centers? Apparently those put out hot air which is enough to warm the hands so I want to get those working.
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I forgot to mention this got sold awhile ago, but today I bought a new gem! Picked up a 1983 Rabbit 4 door with blue paint and a 1.6 diesel engine. 4 speed manual. Drove it an hour home very solid ride. Very little rust on the bottom and both floors original and completely spotless underneath. Time for more work and I'll start a new thread.
http://imgur.com/a/eS26L