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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: TimpanogosSlim on November 13, 2014, 10:23:42 pm
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Drove my coupe a few yards just now. Had to get it out of the way of the land cruiser. We had our first real snow today. I don't have the winter wheels on the GTI yet and the summer tires are done.
The coolant hose block heater seems to work just fine. Engine is no harder to start after an hour or so plugged in than it was in warmer weather.
When the engine was mated to the transmission, a friend helped me install a brand new LUK clutch kit. We used the special tool and followed the instructions. Double checked to make sure we got stuff right. I'd previously had the flywheel checked out by a machinist and he told me it was perfect.
I have an issue where it stalls out when i release the clutch. This is not my first manual so i am reluctant to believe that it is strictly technique. The adjuster on the clutch cable has been spun almost all the way up trying to work this out.
I wonder if i just lack power due to bad timing or something. So after the engine had warmed up to operating temperatures (per the temperature gauge on the cluster) i recorded a short video.
I would appreciate some expert ears and opinions. my attempted pump timing was 1.0mm but since i am a n00b i maybe got it wrong. And since my pump is weird, maybe it's not ideal anyway.
As an aside, my oil pressure gauge doesn't move. It's possible i have it wired wrong so i will look into that further. When i reassembled the engine i used new oil pressure switches on the head and the filter flange, and i used values that i was pretty sure were appropriate for the mk2 oil pump and hydro head. The oil warning light turns off after about half a second of cranking the starter so i am under the impression that i am getting some oil flow, but i do wonder if i should have used a flow restrictor on the oil feed line. I have read that restrictors are generally not used on journal bearing turbos, but i still worry, since lack of oil pressure in the head could maybe be causing power issues? Oil is a gallon of rotella t1 30 weight dino and a 2oz bottle of "ZDDP Maxx" additive. So i could be a quart low, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxTZj-ldjAY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxTZj-ldjAY)
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Hard to hear anything over the turbo...
The oil pressure light will go out with about 1.5 PSI so it only really tells you that the engine is indeed making SOME pressure. The high pressure switch cones in to play over 2000 RPM and will trigger the alarm as well as the light - it is more like 30+ PSI.
No oil restrictor on the oil supply for the turbo, definitely not wanted with a journal bearing turbo.
No oil pressure won't cause low power, it will cause siezed engine. You shouldn't be running it at all if you suspect an oil pressure problem.
Power wise, there's a lot of variables. Do you have smoke? Do you have boost? If you don't have smoke the there's probably room for more fuel. As to stalling in idle, that'll depend on your pump's idle system. It should be able to hold its idle speed pretty well provided everything is happy.
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well, it doesn't just stall at idle.
Though one time it did stall idling just because i turned the wheel sharply. I have since disconnected the power steering pump, which was squeaking.
But it Wants to stall when i lift the clutch pedal, even while giving it some gas. And the last time i tried to drive it, about 10 days ago, I stalled it about 50 times.
I know oil is flowing at least to the turbo because i had forgotten to re-tighten the oil drain hose clamps after having had the pan off briefly just before adding oil and trying to start it a few weeks ago. I had oil flowing out the turbo drain.
When i rev up the engine i do sometimes see the boost gauge move. The grommet that the extra wiring and boost tap hose are running through is over crowded though and i fear the hose may be pinched off.
I need to revisit my oil pressure sender wiring. it's possible that the sender doesn't have good ground. Also possible that it's a bogus sender i guess, since i got it on ebay.
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ok, the oil pressure gauge does work. it just wasn't properly grounded.
i have not started the engine again to assure proper pressure though.
Also it looks like i managed to acquire a fake vdo gauge and matching fake sender. *shrug*
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I'm not sure that's the turbo making the high pitch whine. I have a hard time hearing them at all with the airbox on. Maybe the T-belt is too tight?
Regarding stalling, does the vehicle roll easily? I have rarely stalled these VW diesels, unless the handbrake was on.
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It sounds fine to me. I think it is your technique or something. I wouldn't be letting it idle to operating temp if you haven't broken it in yet. What does the EGT gauge say? Timing at 1.0 should be fine. Need a timing belt cover...
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I'm not sure that's the turbo making the high pitch whine. I have a hard time hearing them at all with the airbox on. Maybe the T-belt is too tight?
Regarding stalling, does the vehicle roll easily? I have rarely stalled these VW diesels, unless the handbrake was on.
I'm not sure i'd say it rolls easily. it does roll. I guess it's possible that an individual brake is having issues, having stood for so long.
I'll double check the tension on the timing belt, but I'm fairly confident that it's not too tight. The IM shaft did fit a little snug with the new bearing but not so much that i'd think it was a problem.
There's no exhaust system connected so i tend to think the whine is the turbo but i'm not certain i guess.
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Come to think of it, a rusty parking brake cable is possible. I have snowflake wheels to put on and will check each corner for freedom of motion.
.:Sent by pneumatic tubes
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There's no exhaust system connected ...
OK, that might explain it, the recording level and laptop speakers didn't reveal that.
(Guess that explains the smoke too.)
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Yeah, but it still sounds quieter to my ears than my friend's 1.6NA. I guess the original intake mani is a big resonator. Like a horn on an old phonograph.
.:Sent by pneumatic tubes
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Well, I think tomorrow I'll put the new wheels on, check for free movement, and see if i can make it to the end of the driveway. then see if i can make it around the block. then maybe go down the street and around the corner and fill it up.
it's insured, so i could even take it for an alignment.
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Engine sounds ok to me. If the engine colds starts easy with just glow plugs (no block heater), within milli seconds of cranking the starter, your timing is not off. Have you messed with the IP governor ( governor mod)? If it stalls, you need to play with the fuel screw to give it a little more fuel (clockwise).
Are there any bubbles in the return to tank line? Should be solid fuel there. If you have bubbles, could be cause of the stalling.
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It is not what I'd call easy to start when cold. it takes several seconds of cranking, and usually a few tries. When it's been running, it starts right back up.
Given that i have an AAZ head on a 1.6 block with a 1-hole head gasket and pistons that protrude slightly under the range specified for 1 hole gaskets, i probably have lower compression than most 1.6TD builds.
I did a better job of aligning the shift rod, and then turned up the fuel a bit, and drove it around the block last night. I turned the fuel up too high because it was racing during gear shifts, but it's running well now.
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With good compression, it should light-off on first crank. I'd probably advance the timing a bit and see if starting improves.
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I would like to see a video of cranking over. I have way less compression than the 1.9 head and I can get mine to light off first twist after sitting for months down to 11f. It just doesn't like to run when it that cold. I have tons of smoke then too.
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I'll see if i can get someone to hold the camera while i crank it. No wife or kids here.
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Just get good sound. The way it sounds running I would think you are alright, but sound on the internet can be deceiving.
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I'l see what i can do tomorrow after work
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High temp today will be 30f. You want this with or without block heater?
.:Sent by pneumatic tubes
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it actually got up to 45f today.
Here's an audio-only recording from outside the car with the hood open.
http://ej0rge.asuscomm.com/R_MIC_141117-060040.mp3 (http://ej0rge.asuscomm.com/R_MIC_141117-060040.mp3)
A timing issue wouldn't surprise me. Unfortunately I have a day job now, get home after dusk, have no covered workspace, and it's gonna be wet this weekend. But if there's a reasonable break in the weather I can give timing another try.
oh, and yes there is air in the tank return, and in the leak line nearest the injector with the cap. perhaps the cap has failed - I'll get a brass tee and do that arrangement
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All I can say after listening to that is WOWOW
Poor turbo diesel (and starter) !! :'( :'(
If this were a normal 1.6TD I'd say you have timing WAY off or some dead cylinders...
Since you have both a franken engine and a franken pump, not sure what advice to give, you're in very experimental territory and kind of on your own here.
About the only thing absolute you can rule out are compression numbers, do you know the compression numbers?
I mean you literally have an engine and pump that is a mish-mash of parts unlike anyone else's in the world, so collaboratively diagnosing things over the internet becomes damn near impossible in my mind.
We all know the 3 things diesels need to run, and the fact that it eventually starts and idles proves it is at least getting those 3.
Beyond those 3 things there are a million things that take over to make it go up and down the road optimally and efficiently.
I think this is one of the well known issues with the AAZ head on a 1.6 is poor cold starts. You have definitely proven that with the sound clip.
I'm afraid it's just the nature of the beast you have created...
I would completely rule out compression and air leaks in the fuel then just get to tinkering/experimenting with slightly different static timing values next. Just change one thing at a time and test.
You are in uncharted territory, no one out there is going to be able to tell you, "oh yea just set this thing to x.xxmm and turn this screw here and this one here and you should be good", it is all up to you.
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Sounds like a ton of air in pump and possibly an idle spring that doesn't belong in the vw pump
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Ja, air in the IP for sure... beyond that will be hard to say until air is gone.
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yeah the air is a confirmed problem
Idle spring though? I know my pump is a mongrel and i have a line on a VW turbo pump, but how do you get a wrong idle spring from that recording? just asking so i can understand, i mean
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I am guessing. You have said you had issues with letting the clutch out and stalling. Fix the air and see if it is the spring or you need more main fuel or something else. But the way it idled sounds like something is up with that spring if it is not the same as the vw one. Air seems to be a huge problem as it should never take that long to start. Please tell me you have seated the rings and not let it idle a ton.
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I did have my foot on the pedal for the first bit of running there.
It has idled a total of maybe 5 minutes. Adjusting the shift linkage and fuel solved the stalling issue and it has been around the block once.
.:Sent by pneumatic tubes
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Well I would say most of the issue is the air in the fuel then.
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Can you get a bunch of pictures or video of the clear return line coming out of the pump while cranking and idling?
A properly working Bosch VE pump should be self priming and also not need any help pulling in fuel on its own from the tank.
They are pretty tolerable of quite a bit of air ingestion actually, don't be concerned if it is just a few bubbles.
Here's my return line priming up for the first time with a pump and filter full of fuel, tons of bubbles/foam/air, you can clearly see it.
http://youtu.be/QdA8YgaqnvA?t=1m30s
Then here it is right after starting...
http://youtu.be/QdA8YgaqnvA?t=3m10s
Kind of hard to tell, but the return line is solid foamy bubbles from that point until the end of the video, but the engine is running fine. The pump is just purging itself of the air as designed.
So don't be too alarmed if you see some air/bubbles/foam in the line, at idle circulation rates it could take a very long time to completely purge itself of air.
It is best really to take it for a drive through varying higher RPM's to really get all the air out quickly.
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I may be able to. I forgot to look at the lines immediately before this startup. When i last checked under the hood a couple days ago, it had one small bubble in the tank return.
After this startup, there were several large bubbles in the tank return, and the leak line nearest the capped nipple was almost all air. Thus my presumption that the cap leaks.
I have a highish-end point-n-shoot digital camera that records 1080p video, a tripod, and some halogen work lights, so a startup video is doable.
I know i don't need the lift pump, but it was already installed when i bought the car, and sure is handy for priming.
.:Sent by pneumatic tubes