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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: saurkraut on August 19, 2008, 01:48:31 pm
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Finally got a gap in the car mantenance action, I decided to resurect the 1.9 mechanical head project.
The 1.9 head is a direct bolt on for the 1.6 hydro motors. On mechanical motors, the extra oil drain hole needs to be plugged. As far as hydro vrs mechanical cam/lifters, the hydo set up is easier, and should work on a mechanical block after thera drain hole is plugged. I prefere mecanical lifters, so that will be my focus.
Its going to go on my '79 Rabbit, wich only gets driven in the summer.
The first thing I've done is plug the extra oil drain hole.
A 3/8" aluminum pipe plug is a very good fit:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0269.jpg)
In goes the 3/8 NPT tap:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0271.jpg)
Athough i started the process on the kitchen table, the tenacity of the head material lead me to move the program to the shop.
"Tap Magic" does not work on aluminum. It smokes and stinks to high heck and turns to a black goo. Fortunatly, I had some Aluminum Tap Magic and things went better. WD40 is also a good substitute.
As the tap approached full insertion, it took several cycles of getting a turn on the tap, backing it out, cleaning the shavings off the tap and out of the hole, then re-inserting the tap for another turn.
I had to judge the tap depth, vrs the plug thread in/snugness as the plug is tapered. 1 turn below the surface was the ticket.
Here's were the plug got tight:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0272.jpg)
I bought the plug from McMaster Carr because they delivered to my business address. What I didn't check was the size of the square socket in the back of the plug. Much to my amazemant, it was nither 1/4", 5/16", or even 3/8". I went back to the McMaster web page to pull up the drawing, and low and behold, the drive socket in the back of the plug is 0.31" WTH????
I got a piece of 5/16" key stock and carefully reduced it on my grinder untill it fit:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0273.jpg)
And here it is all snug and happy:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0274.jpg)
I just have to debur the hole, and decide what to use for a sealant. I'm thinking locktite, or that hardening gasket shelack.
Next step is the aluminum shims to change the valve spring seat to the right height for the mechanical cam followers.
Here's my super wiz bang drawing for the shims:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/Shim.jpg)
The valve seat difference between a mech head and a hydro head is 0.294". Its handy to have a CMM for this measurement. :wink:
(http://www.konradcorp.com/images1/quality.gif)
All I have to do is push the guides out of the head, put the shims in, press in the new guides, and I'm ready for all the mechanical valve stuff.
While I'm waiting for the shims, I'll do a little port work. I have copies of an old article written by Dave Vizard on do it yourself porting for VW heads. i'll post it if anyone is interested.
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Wow, nice project. Yea, go ahead and post up the David Vizard article, it would be a nice read.
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The David Vizard porting article:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15782.0
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nice work!
I'm interested on the article :D
really interesting setup, mechanical should be more efficient
EDIT: already printed ;) now I have something to read on the %&$% :D
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Here is a finished valve spring seat shim, with a guide and spring seat for reference.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0278.jpg)
Its going to be a couple weeks yet till I get it running. I have to send my exhaust manifold out to get replaned flat.
I think I'll wip out the porting instructions and my Dremel and carve on the head for a while.
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this is cool, post pictures of it ported
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Here's some pictures of my "porting" work. I cleaned out all the casting flaws, and now I'm loosly following the David Vizard article.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0288.jpg)
I'm using a Dremel tool with a carbide bit that is specifically for aluminum to remove metal. I use the electric drill with a rod and a strip of emery cloth wrapped beyond the end of the rod for smoothing and polishing.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0292.jpg)
The 3M emery cloth assortment is really handy. Start with the coarsest stuff, and work down to fine.
I remember from my 2 stroke porting days that a satin finnish is better than a mirror finish for max airflow, so don't go nutz. Just smooth it up.
I'll try to get better pictures, but my illumination options in my basement are somewhat limited.
Hopefully, I'll be pressing in new guides with my valve seat shims this week end.
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does the mech cam clear the head?
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I measured the stuff on the top of the head with a vernier caliper when I first received the head. Best of my recolection, all the dimensions on top are the same, except the spring seat height.
PROGRESS: I pushed out the guides, put in my .294" shims, and pressed in new guides.
One thing I've noticed, that I didn't notice befor; the valve pocket area of the port is 'lower' in the Hydro head. The giudes are the same, the valve seat area is lower, so the valve pocket has to be lower, by .294" i would imagin.
This makes porting easier, as the guide used to protrude, but now is up slightly into the head. So now I can take out a large part of the valve stem hump with out having to dodge the valve guide.
I think after I finish porting, I'll send the head out to be plained. This will make sure the pipe plug is flush to the head. I might even fill the socket with devcon befor send it out to be plained.
I'll try to post some pictures of this soon.
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saurkraut, that's a bunch of conversion work. Hate to sound stupid, but is your project goal to produce gains in horsepower, torque, fuel economy, lower emissions, or what? (I know; sounds like a newb.)
Don't the 1.6L mechanical heads have a water passage right where you put the aluminum pipe plug? Seems like all coolant flow is critical on our VW diesels, but maybe I'm just missing something basic here.(?)
Won't you also have to use a 1.9L intake manifold, or modify the 1.6L unit?
Interesting work, and nicely done.
J.R.
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That hole he blocked off is just a extra oil drain. Not needed.
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saurkraut, that's a bunch of conversion work. Hate to sound stupid, but is your project goal to produce gains in horsepower, torque, fuel economy, lower emissions, or what? (I know; sounds like a newb.)
Don't the 1.6L mechanical heads have a water passage right where you put the aluminum pipe plug? Seems like all coolant flow is critical on our VW diesels, but maybe I'm just missing something basic here.(?)
Won't you also have to use a 1.9L intake manifold, or modify the 1.6L unit?
Interesting work, and nicely done.
J.R.
The 1.9 head has bigger ports, and bigger swirl chambers which should lower my CR to 19:1 or somthing around there. I have an Excel spread sheet that has CRs for different heads on different motors somewhere, but 19:1 is in the ball park.
I don't like hydralic lifters.
I should be able to pack more air in each stroke.
The lower compression should reduce stress on the rods.
Therefore, I should be able to run a more stupid booste level with more fuel and have less chance of busting anything in the engine.
I suspect I'll lunch another trany next though.
I have been running a K24 at 25 - 30 PSI with some smoke. Crapped a piece of a turbine blade (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=14895.0&highlight=) out the tail pipe once. I have a k-26 that I plan on grafting its kompressor on to the k24 and get even more air in there.
Yes, I have the 1.9 intake manifold too.
After I finish this monkey business, its back to the 1.5TD (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=11786&highlight=) program.
I'm just a shareing kind of person.... ;)
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Pictures!
Here is the new guides and the .394" shims installed.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0309.jpg)
On the port side, the guide is now slightly into the head. Which means the hump for the valve guide can be wittled down quite a bit.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0310.jpg)
Here is a port after roughing. It looks much rougher than it really is. The wonders of photography. Nice big hole.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0312.jpg)
Its really neat how this worked out in the valve pocket. The valve hump is almost gone. I kept the 'bias' of the original port, as advised in the Vizard article. It didn't take alot of work either. The port almost maintaines it's full diameter through the valve guide area. This may be even a better reason to turn a Hydro head mechanical.
Smoothing is next, then a head shave, then valves/cam, and on to the 1.6.
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How hard do you think the start will be with the lower compression. Also I heard that reducing the compression increases MPG's, do you know if thats true.
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Someone already did put a 1.9 hydro head on a fresh hydro block and had OK starts, even in cold weather.
There was someone else that put one on a bagged out block, and the starts were butt ugly. But it ran good with more power when it was warm.
It may not be the hot set up for below zero starts, or hipermileing.
I'm not really concerned with the fuel milage. I'll make sure I get the right head gasket thickness so the squish and swirl are good, which should make a good burn off boost, and should make OK milage. This more of a quest for more power with out bending rods.
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what do you mean by bagged out.... lots of miles.
I'll be very interested in seeing how your millage is doing after the install. I'm looking at getting as much hp out of mine "eventually" while keeping the millage the same. Kinda like having your cake and eating it too.
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Bagged out was a poor choice on my part. I should have said virtually no piston rings.
I appreciate your interest. But honestly, I probably won't have any mileage figures that will be of any use to you, as every stop sign is a drag race, every turn Daytona, and speed limits are advisory in nature. It will be a rare occurance for this engine to be at steady state, max conserve.
As a mater of fact, my next major acquisition is going to be a six speed trans, as the 'tall' FF i have now runs out of gears at my desired cruising speed.
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I decided that I needed one of these
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/1r00301v3.jpg)
I need it to get all they way into the port from both directions.
And one of these 9934 Structured Tooth Tungsten Carbide Cutter (Cone)
(http://mdm.boschwebservices.com/MDMCache/t06/0000000/r00067v3.jpg)
Its a really weird tool. Works nice on aluminum, and didn't load up if you just let it do its thing.
Really helped smoothing up the rough cuts from this bad boy.
(http://mdm.boschwebservices.com/MDMCache/t06/0000000/r00072v3.jpg)
The Tungsten Carbide Cutter is the real hog. Makes the chips fly.
Tonight is the final smoothing and polishing with emery cloth on a metal stick in an electric drill. Then its off to be plained.
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To keep stuff from growing in the hole, I back filled the plugged oil drain with 5 Min. Epoxy.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0323.jpg)
I cut the double syringe in half. Squirted them both in the blister from the package and mixed it up.
My big plan was to pour the mixture into one of the syringes and inject it into the hole, but there is a step in the id of the syringe bore, so you can't pull the plunger all the way out.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0322.jpg)
So I just sucked it up with one of the syringes, and injected it down the hole. Took three evolutions to fill it, the 5 Min. Epoxy remainedand liquid the hole time, and there was only a little left over.
The head is out gettting plained this week.
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I did the same thing, filled the hole with JB quick.
Well I didn't fill it and I probably should have but I capped the weld with it about 1/2" thick.
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I'm not getting it, it's not clicking for me....
I thought the aaz/1.9 would bolt directly to the 1.6/1.5 block with the only problem being the oil drain (and people seem to clog it with gasketing material?)
I plan to do this setup, help a n00b out? I've been doing my research - but theres a lot of it to make this engine work.
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I'm not getting it, it's not clicking for me....
I thought the aaz/1.9 would bolt directly to the 1.6/1.5 block with the only problem being the oil drain (and people seem to clog it with gasketing material?)
I plan to do this setup, help a n00b out? I've been doing my research - but theres a lot of it to make this engine work.
You better do LOTs of reading, the info is here.
There is a oil drain and a coolant port that overlap through the gasket, both need addressed.
saurkraut and I have both done/ doing the solid lifter block and the hydro head swap. mine is up and running and saurkraut is building his now.
If you are doing a full hydro engine it's s drop on gasket, if you have a solid lifter anything it adds to the complication.
If you need start up a build thread of your own to ask questions so we don't clutter up saurkraut's thread.
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The head is now plained so the plug is flush.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0326.jpg)
My prior valve figuring was faulty. The Exhaust valve is a no brainer, the exhaust valve from the Mech. head will go right in.
But the intake is another matter. Diesel heads are thicker than gasser heads, so Mech. gasser valve are too short.
The Mech diesel valves are 104mm long, Hydro Diesel valves are 96mm long. Mech gasser valves are 98mm long, so they're way too short.
I looked through a whole pile of Bentlies, and found the the only valves that were close on length and head diameter to be used as intake valves for my project are over sized VR6 exhaust valves. They're length is 106mm. All i have to do is nip them down to 104mm and thats set
The head diameter of the 1.9 hydro valves is 35.95, oversized VR6 exhaust valves from Techtonics are 35.8. I have to change all the intake valve guides to 7mm, but hey, I have a solution.
I stipped down a VR6 head, so I have 7mm springs, keepers and collets.
I think my next two weekends are clobbered, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.
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Krap,
Called Tectonics about the VR6 oversized valves. If I shorten them, the top notch for the colletts will be almost gone.
They said there is place making mechanical repacement lifters for hydro heads:
Mechanic Follower for VW 8v Hydraulic Heads (http://www.crespocams.com/servlet/Categories?category=Cam+Lifters%3AMechanic)
(http://buy-efi.com/Ebay/CrespoParts/Lifters/images/MechLifterG.gif)
Wow, would have been nice to know....
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So does this mean that we don't need to make the aluminum shims to change the valve spring seat now. All we need to do is buy these lifters and we are good to go or do I have this all wrong? I plan on running a 1.9 on my 1.6 and I am now getting my parts lined up.
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The mechanical replacement lifter appears to be the best solution for making a 1.9 head mechanical.
For a 1.6 head, hydro to mechanical, its a toss up.
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How hard do you think the start will be with the lower compression. Also I heard that reducing the compression increases MPG's, do you know if that's true.
All other things being equal, lower compression = less HP per gallon of fuel = lower MPG.
Its part of the reason our diesels will always be more efficient (about 40% more) than gas engines. They can't go much higher than 13:1, and then with very high octane fuel.
Ford is splitting the difference with what they call and EcoBoost - I call it a gasoline diesel because it is a direct injected engine with spark plugs. So, they have all the high priced parts a TDI has, but not the high compression. They therefore only get to a claimed 30% better efficiency than a conventional gas engine.
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How hard do you think the start will be with the lower compression. Also I heard that reducing the compression increases MPG's, do you know if that's true.
All other things being equal, lower compression = less HP per gallon of fuel = lower MPG.
You start hitting diminishing returns around 17:1 compression. Our IDI diesels are so extremely high compression because of the necessity for cold starts and the high exposed surface area the prechamber design lends to the combustion spaces.
The 17:1 mark, incidentally, is roughly where most industrial and over the road diesels operate; I'd think if anything higher would give them performance gains on less fuel, the trucking industry would be all over it!
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Thanks a lot Arb and Turbinepowered, I don't remember where I read that, but it's nice to clear up some of my disinformation.
saurkraut... If that stripped down vr6 head is a 12v you wouldn't be interested in selling at a good price would you......
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The 17:1 mark, incidentally, is roughly where most industrial and over the road diesels operate; I'd think if anything higher would give them performance gains on less fuel, the trucking industry would be all over it!
There is another factor at about 17:1 - the NOx levels go way up as you increase the compression ratio. Over the road has emission standards these days too.
Here is a physics based expression. If you plug in the numbers you will find that a 23:1 is more efficient than a 17:1 engine.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/thermo/diesel.html
But, these to not take into account the emissions of NOx.
To look at the other extreme, the Wright Brothers first engine of about 12 - 17 hp from 3.3L - only had a 4.5:1 compression ratio.
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There is no question that virtually any combustion process is more efficient the higher you go in compression.
The mechanical conversion of that combustion process starts to go to crap somewhere around 17:1 due to cranking loss.
Look at the TDi motors. They're 19.5:1. Why didn't they opt for the 'much more efficient' 23:1? I suspect mechanical losses.
There is a VW white paper for the 1.5 that goes into detail on this. I'll try to find it and post it.
Mean while, back at the project; I ordered a set of the Crespo mechanical cam followers. So I should have them next week.
I'll be pushing out the 8mm guides, and my super-wiz-bang shims. Then its new guides, and the hydro valves, springs, seats, keepers and colletts. Next weekend is shot, So hopefully the weekend after that I can have fire in the hole, and we'll see what this head will do.
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If you take the shims out, won't that let the valve guide once again protrude into the port area?
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If you take the shims out, won't that let the valve guide once again protrude into the port area?
Yup, Pushed them out and put in new guides this week end. And they REALLY stick out now.
I glanced at the Vizard article, and I couldn't tell if the had removed any of the valve stem in the port. I'll have to look closer at it.
Here's the receipiant. Patently waiting for the new head:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0334.jpg)
The solid lifters are in transit. I got the new valves already. Pritty soon.
I hope winter holds off for a few more weeks....
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I wonder how that protrusion affects flow in a ported head. Your shims and solid lifters might actually end up the better solution, so far as smoothness of flow goes.
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is that your split window Karl?
Duane
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I wonder how that protrusion affects flow in a ported head. Your shims and solid lifters might actually end up the better solution, so far as smoothness of flow goes.
Yah, I know :( And I'm really not happy about it. But I'm up against the storage season.
I will end up as good as a ported head with the original valve guides. But I know it could be better, and that BUGS me....
The problem that I didn't want to address is the over all geometery of the valves I'd end up running.
There are no valves that are a direct fit, head diameter wise, in a head modified to be a mechanical 1.9 head.
To use VR6 oversized TT exhaust valves as intake valves for the 1.9 head, they needed to be shortened allot to work . The amount that had to be removed would have almost eliminated the top grove for the collets. I could have lived with that. But they were also 0.15mm smaller in head diameter. So it becomes a trigonometery problem figureing how long the stem should be because they'd sit a little deeper in the head, and still end up in the adjustment range of the valve lash shims.
The 1.9 exhaust valve head diameter is also slightly bigger than the 1.6TD exhaste valve. so it has the same problem.
And I really want to try it out befor the snow (salt) starts flying. So its the super long mechanical cam followers for now.
The right answer is custom made valves, and that is not out of the picture. I'll probably go with thinner stems too.
No, the splitty is not mine. But I wish.
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The long mechanical cam followers are here:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0339.jpg)
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Too Cool!!!
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Well, instead of wipping out my handy dandy 8mm drill bit and ream the guides that way, (I know it sound crude, but it has worked for me many times befor) I bought a 5/16" to 11/32" reamer from McMaster to do the job right:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0350.jpg)
Close up:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0349.jpg)
What I found is that guides reamed to the proper size feel looser than what I used to accept with the drill bit method. Probably because the finish is more uniform. I'm lucky that i didn't have a valve stick in the past.
I also double checked the possibility of drilling and tapping the top edge of the cam side to accept the earlier valve cover. IT IS POSSIBLE. But there is good news, and bad news.
I did crude checks in the past wit the G60 valve cover. There are allot of stiffening webs in the top of it that interfered with the stud bosses on the 1.9 cam towers. I dremeled out the interference points and low and behold, the stud holes in the corners line up, and they are also the right size for the tap!
So I drilled and tapped them all (No. 9 bit):
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0341.jpg)
A DRILL PRESS IS MANDITORY. If you get a crooked hole, the valve cover ain't going over the studs.
And there is pleanty of web thickness to almost cover the whole thread insertion:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0340.jpg)
Now the bad news: The early steel valve covers won't work un modified:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0346.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0347.jpg)
The edge roll on the old steel cover interferes with the 1.9 straight gasket surface.
Allot of the edge roll has to be removed. Here is the gasket in the valve cover showing how much over hang there is;
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0345.jpg)
Its not out of the question, but it has to be reduced significantly, probably to 1/2 the gasket thicness. I wonder what the right way to do this is?
The G60 valve cover, after a little dremel work, is a straight shot:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0342.jpg)
I also lapped all the valves. So hopefully next week end, I'll have fire in the hole....
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awesome mate!
just perfect!
Can't wait to see it together.
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I wonder if i'd ever find a g40 or g60 cover at the junk yard...
if not im going to try flattening my 1.6td cover to fit with the aaz head and use all the mounting points for both styles
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Probably.
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Or use something much harder than the stock ones and just have tons of pressure on the middle points like you said.
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Did I miss something, but why not 1,9 valve cover?
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no funds :roll:
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Well, it was a productive week end. I got the 1.9 head built up. Pulled the old head, drilled the steam holes in the block, and got the 1.9 head on.
Here is the block after the steam holes were drilled. The bores look really good, with no ridge at the top yet. Synthetic oil is good stuff. Some of the pistons showed a tiny bit of heat damage in a few small areas along the edges. They were allot better than I expected, since I'm running 25+ PSI boost, and have been occasionally approacing 1500° pre-turbo EGT. But since I didn't see any bore scuffing, I'm leaving them in. I may dial back my fuel a bit though. :wink:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0355.jpg)
I also measured the piston protrusion. It calls for a one notch. I've been running a 3 notch. I guess that explains the rough starts with over 400 PSI cylinder pressure. Anyone remember the squish band discussion? I also wonder if I had the right gasket in there, I wouldn't have the slight heat damage at the edge of the pistons, as having the right squish also contributes to piston cooling when its in close proximity to the much cooler head (quench).
I bought a sheet of viton rubber and cut a circular 'gasket' for the extra oil drain hole. The 1 notch gasket .0602" thick, and the viton is .0625" thick. I hope I got enough compression of the rubber plug to seal it. I put a little Dirco on both sides of the round rubber plug for added insureance.
And here is the G60 valve cover, and the original tin timing belt cover. Good news, things fit. And its REALLY NICE not having that gosh darn, POS, good for nothing blow off valve there!
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0358.jpg)
And of course, with all of my projects, there is another tragic twist.... :roll:
Looks like I have to take the cam out to change the valve lash shims. There is a little ridge of aluminum right next to the cam towers that makes it impossible to get the shims out. This ridge serves no purpose to either a mechanical head, or a hydraulic head. I missed it when I compared the two heads side by side. If I had noticed it, It would have been very easy to remove. I had a full set of hydo lifters too, but I don't have a Hydro cam.
As far as pulling the cam, yah it sucks. But it isn't insurmountable. I need to do it this way to get the car home befor the salt flies. I'll just pull the belt. Rotate the crank forward 90°. Spin the cam and measure all the cylinders and record the values. Pull the cam, change the shims. put the cam back in, spin it and measure again just to make sure. Rotate the crank back 90°, do the timing belt thing. Fire it up. It just requred a couple more hours that I didn't have. I also need to check the injector spray pattern. I didn't get to that. I have four new SMOG gtd nozzles standing by too.
I'll probably pull the head, dissasemble it, and dremel out those ridges this winter while the car is in winter storage.
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UPDATE:
Everthing is done except the intake plumbing, checking/re-nozzleing the injectors and setting the pump timimg.
Its supposed to snow an unspecified quantity around here the next few days. My concern is road salt. The car is in the U.P of Michigan, and i have to get it back here to store it for the winter.
I'm planning on doing the injectors tomarrow mourning, fireing it up, and if its not salty, take it for a test run. Then I'll pull the bumper, put on the draw bar, and drag it back here behind the TQW, if the roads haven't been salted.
There has been snow in the extended forecaste too. So it may be right into the barn, and up on jack stands.
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Its supposed to snow an unspecified quantity around here the next few days. My concern is road salt. The car is in the U.P of Michigan, and i have to get it back here to store it for the winter.
Rent a U-Haul car trailer and use a couple of large tarps to cover your car, if you have a truck to pull it.
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If they throw salt, thats probably what I'l have to do.
Keeping my fingers crossed for a snow/rain mix that doesn't accumulate....
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I had a three notch in there when my protrusion is the smallest possible.
My car was rendered useless when it got too hot or too cold for starting up again. And my economy when it was last running was 20mpg :?
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From what I know about HGs and VW diesel engines is that when it comes putting on a thicker than recommended HG - it should not make any difference on how a normal - stock - healthy engine runs! In other words if putting a 3 notch or holer HG on when piston protrusion only calls out for a one notcher or holeror makes an engine harder to start or not run right when hot then some thing else is not up to par. Compression gages cost us $29 here at Harbor Freight in the US. I don't know what they would be in Canada but it behooves one to know what their engine's compression is in each cylinder! This helps establish a reference base for problem solving.
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This needs investigation. I plan on slapping a fresh new 1.9 head on my mech 1.6TD shortblock.
Turbo pistons, stock rods. how close is the valve/piston clearance?
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I do know that piston protrusion in relations to proper HG thickness has a lot to do with piston to valve clearance. I also know there is no difference in engine performance between using a two hole HG when factory specs actually call out for a one - in fact I know that VWs have come from the factory that way.
Now a three holer in lieu of a one holer plus going onto a non stock 1.6block with 1.9head ? that may apparently become a different story all together!
Has anyone ever first handedly found out that putting a there hole HG on a block that only requires a one holer along with using the stock head ever resulted in any malfunctioning of an otherwise beforehand perfectly good working engine?
Yes as bearings wear and things loosen up a bit I say it is wise to error on the side of using a thicker HG rather than sticking with the original Bentley manuel specs that are for new factory engines.
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I do know that piston protrusion in relations to proper HG thickness has a lot to do with piston to valve clearance.
Interesting. How do you know this. Please share.
Has anyone ever first handedly found out that putting a there hole HG on a block that only requires a one holer along with using the stock head ever resulted in any malfunctioning of an otherwise beforehand perfectly good working engine?
Yes, as a matter of fact, the engine in this post was assemembled with a 3 notch when I first put it togather a few years ago with a 1.6 head. This was a full rebuild, including an overbore to the first oversize. I was in a hurry, and didn't bother making the measurement.
The engine has always had a less than perfect cold start. Even with new injectors, cold start knob pulled, and ambient summer temperatures. The pumping pressure on all cylinders is over 400 PSI.
Hot starts were just fine. I'm sorry Smokey Eddy, you have something else going on there in your engine.
If I kept my foot out of it, and didn't run it full throttle through all the gears on acceleration, it got 40+ MPG. Tragically, with my driving technique, it rarely achieved those results....
If you read my post above, I have also found some small areas of very slight heat damage at the edge of a couple pistons.
I attribute these two issues to running a three notch when measured piston protrusion called for of a one notch head gasket.
Here is a previose discussion of Squish and Quench: http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=8369.75
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Thanks for the leads on 'squish' and 'quench' and I stand corrected on the idea of being able to use a 3 hole HG in the one hole prescribed application without any engine performance or cooling consequences! I agree then with Andrew that in doing so is bad advice and not to be recommended! If however the piston protrusion in a used engine measures out to be in the like say upper 10% of chart's limits I personally would think to use the next thicker sized HG would be a better 'safe than sorry' procedure.
But when it comes to being more 'safe than proper' ? - I don't know - has anyone out there tried using a one hole HG instead of using the recommended two or three hole HG and noticed if valves interfered with pistons or not? I haven't so then no I do not know for curtain that inversely using HGs improperly interferes with piston to valve clearance!
Now from the best that I can tell - my 98 Jetta did come with a two hole HG from factory when piston protrusion called out for a one hole HG but it was measuring in the upper part of limits for a one holer application. I was using a digital dial indicator to make measurements so they should have been accurate. Has anyone had a similar experience? Thanks for all the good feedback! This is a great VW diesel forum!
Stephen
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I don't remember if it was on this forum, or the old Diesel List, but there was some poster in Germany that had made a 1.6 bolck/1.9 head motor for rallying.
I think their piston protrusion called for 2 or 3 notches/holes. Anyway, they successfully ran a 'one notch' thinner gasket with no detrimental effects.
I don't remember why they did it though.
The trick to keeping the valves out of the pistons is to have the cam bug nuts on in relation to the zero mark on the flywheel. I like to stuff a couple of feeler gauges under the cam lock to get it level. Then tighten the cam bolt with a sprocket holder, and everything is good.
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I was looking for the post with the 'one notch thinner' engine and i found Jake's 1.5 SAE paper post:
Jake's 1.5 SAE paper (http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46)
I didn't try to down load it, as my home internet access is via a phone modum.
Hey Libbybapa, I like your new avitar much better better :wink:
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a 1.6 bolck/1.9 head motor for rallying.
I think their piston protrusion called for 2 or 3 notches/holes. Anyway, they successfully ran a 'one notch' thinner gasket with no detrimental effects.
I don't remember why they did it though.
Well I would think that if going from a one hole to a thicker HG makes for a less than say perfect start in cold weather then it only stands to reason that going from a 2 or 3 hole HG to a thinner one with a 1.9 head would only help make cold weather startings more perfect in that by using the 1.9 head with its larger pre-chamber cavity which effectively lowers the CR then might not using a thiner HG actually help the squish and quench running properties of engine - maybe something to keep in mind?!?
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Made it back home on Saturday all safe and sound.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0360.jpg)
Drove through 4 white outs and, fortunately, no salt on the roads. The front of the car was caked in snow for a while, but it all melted off by the time i got home.
Only freaked my self out 5 times when checking my rearview and saw a car following way too close. :shock:
Its in the garage, and we're supposed to get freezing rain today.... here comes the salt.
Just a little putz'en to do, and I'll fire it up.
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this is awesome. It will be cool to see another one of these on the road :)
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Since we had a warm stretch here, i figured I better move this project along so its ready to go this spring.
There were shoulders on both sides of the cam towers that made it impossible to remove the valve lash shims with the cam in. So as long as I had the head off, I took it appart and dremeled out the shoulders:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0398.jpg)
Here is what the shoulders next to the cam towers looked like befor the Dremel work:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0323.jpg)
Its all back togather now. The exhauxt manifold is out getting machined flat along the ports.
I should have it all buttoned up in a couple weeks.
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I did the k24/k26 compressor swap, so i had to do some changes to clear my intake manifold.
Since the flange on the exhaust manifold is angled away from the motor, I guessed that a 3/8" shim would help the situation. $75 to the local Fab Shop, and here it is out of 304 stainless.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0473.jpg)
I decided to use stainless because both the turbine housing, and exhaust manifold are NiCr 202 stainless and I wanted to keep the materials similar. Here's the numbers on the bottom of the manifold after I wire brushed it:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0469.jpg)
And here's the turbo with the bigger compressor bolted up:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0470.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0472.jpg)
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0465.jpg)
I had to do a little Dremel work to both the intake manifold, and one of the bolt bosses on the compressor to get things clear. I have about 1/8" now:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0468.jpg)
I picked up some M10 - 1.5 x 60 18-8 stainless allan screws from Fastenal to replace the OEM flange bolts. I could have purchased new stainless flange bolts too, but I would have had to buy 100.
Hopefully I'll get the head back on this weekend. I think I can re-sculpture the supply line, but I think I'll go to a hydraulic shop and see if they can put a longer flex hose in the stock drain line.
I'm going to use 2 of Prothe's turbo flange gaskets to seal it up. Should be rolling soon!
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The head is on and torqued: raceware studs and 1.9 metal head gasket. I used 53 willys idea and plugged the block heater in for four hours to give it a heat cycle with out running. It got hot enough so that it was uncomfortable to hold your hand against the head. I'll re-torque it tonight.
It was a real monkeys-vrs-footballs getting the 3/8" turbo spacer and two Prothe gaskets under the turbo, but its in now:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0493.jpg)
The K26 compressor sits about in the same location as the K24 compressor:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0495.jpg)
I have to lengthen the flex section on the turbo drain pipe, throw the belt on and re-time it, adjust the valve clearance, and fire it up.
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so, you have a K24/K27 then?
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Nope, my brain fart. K24 hot side, K26 cold side.
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lol, ok, that makes a little more sense. my first thought... HOLY CRAP, a 24/26 hybrid wasnt enough so he had to do a 24/27 hybrid! it would probably still work wouldnt it?
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How hard do you think the start will be with the lower compression. Also I heard that reducing the compression increases MPG's, do you know if thats true.
high compression ratio is only for cold starting. you can go to around 18:1 with excellent compression & working glow plugs without too much cold starting issues. i think 15:1 would even work but you'd need to start the car with some starting fluid. once up to temp that thing would rock! 8)
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how do we lower our compression? h/g spacers?
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lol, ok, that makes a little more sense. my first thought... HOLY CRAP, a 24/26 hybrid wasn't enough so he had to do a 24/27 hybrid! it would probably still work wouldn't it?
Nut's, now you've gone and done it. I'm wondering if that K27 cold side would bolt up to the K24......
how do we lower our compression? h/g spacers?
Nope, got to keep the flat part of the pistons close to the flat part of the head so the squish and quench do their thing: cooler pistons & better turbulence in the swirl chambers.
The bigger 1.9 swirl chambers drop the compression from 23:1 to 19:1. The bigger ports are a bonus.
The lowest CR from off the shelf parts is a 1.9 head on a 1.5 block (1.6TD block with appropriate 1.5 parts in it) which yields a CR of: 17.68:1
I wonder how bad the combustion process would get hozed up if the flame pockets in the pistons were machined deeper.
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That would be hit and miss, if you took .030 or less you probably would be OK but Im guessing too deep and you'd be euchred. The other thought going through my mind would be having a hotter spot on the piston due to less material. I know we shave pistons on gassers, but with all the aftermarket support we just pick up the phone and order the piston with the deeper pocket, and it is shipped the same day.A nicely CNC's piston would be pricey to pay with, but at least it would be a consistent thickness across the dome.
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lol, ok, that makes a little more sense. my first thought... HOLY CRAP, a 24/26 hybrid wasn't enough so he had to do a 24/27 hybrid! it would probably still work wouldn't it?
Nut's, now you've gone and done it. I'm wondering if that K27 cold side would bolt up to the K24......
how do we lower our compression? h/g spacers?
Nope, got to keep the flat part of the pistons close to the flat part of the head so the squish and quench do their thing: cooler pistons & better turbulence in the swirl chambers.
The bigger 1.9 swirl chambers drop the compression from 23:1 to 19:1. The bigger ports are a bonus.
The lowest CR from off the shelf parts is a 1.9 head on a 1.5 block (1.6TD block with appropriate 1.5 parts in it) which yields a CR of: 17.68:1
I wonder how bad the combustion process would get hozed up if the flame pockets in the pistons were machined deeper.
not quite sure...
but now, knowing that i can build a 1.5 with 17.5 compression, im going to...
should be able to run quite a bit more boost with lower compression right?
and it wont be nearly as rattley either. or is my thinking not right?
and will it still start on normal glow plugs?
or would this engine be addicted to starting fluid?
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not quite sure...
but now, knowing that i can build a 1.5 with 17.5 compression, im going to...
should be able to run quite a bit more boost with lower compression right?
and it wont be nearly as rattley either. or is my thinking not right?
and will it still start on normal glow plugs?
or would this engine be addicted to starting fluid?
I started this 1.6 block/1.9 head contraption with the correct 1 notch head gasket last fall when the temp was in the 30s and it started better than it did with the 1.6 head with the three notch head gasket.
So there's a chance that the 17.5 might fly. Might be a little dicey below 30. There's also the possibility of running a thinner head gasket, but you'd have to have the cam bug nuts on. I'm seriously considering it for my 1.5TD experiment.
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30* is about all the colder it ever gets here, so i doubt it will be much of a problem.
and also, i located some 1mm O/S pistons from a fellow dubber, 50 miles from me no less.
and they are german mahles no less...
now i just have to talk him out of them.
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30* is about all the colder it ever gets here, so i doubt it will be much of a problem.
and also, i located some 1mm O/S pistons from a fellow dubber, 50 miles from me no less.
and they are german mahles no less...
now i just have to talk him out of them.
Here is an idea to help you get those pistons...........beer 8)
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Well, its alive. Still chaising the timing. The lower compression requires more advance. I'm at 1.15 and the engine is coming around. At 1.00, EGT and coolant temp is high, at 1.10, EGT is OK ,but the coolant temps rise a little too fast. I think I'll try 1.20 before I raise the fueling to the point of the previous 1.6block/1.6head.
It's measurably faster though. With the fuel at the stock setting, its 5 MPH faster than the 1.6head set up with tire fire smoke trail on my measured test strip. IE 75 MPH for the 1.6 head and allot of fuel, 80 MPH with the 1.9 head and NO SMOKE. i figure its the porting somewhat, but mostly less cranking loss with the 19:1 compression ratio. The start was a little smoky, but it was 28F this morning. Kind of out of its normal operating range. Almost time for it to go nite-nite for winter
Hopefully I'll get it dialed in before I put it away for winter. I've contracted a degenerative nerve disease, and I'm losing the use of my right hand, so it takes a while for me to adjust the timing. pulling a cylinder head is a real treat too....
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Yay. Glad to hear about your engine conversion. Mine too, is smokey upon first start up and the timming is @ 1.2. Not so much with the block heater in use.
Sorry to hear about your nerves. Keep us all posted.
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Well, 1.2mm did the trick. Shot right up to 85 MPH in 4th gear and promptly pushed out the head gasket. Time to toss the Raceware studs and go to ARP.
I suspect the Raceware studs are a bit too tricky to successfully get torqued more than once. I ran a stock head gasket for years on this motor at 25+ PSI boost with boat load of fuel and the seal never failed. But now I've blown two metal gaskets and one fiber gasket with the same boost, lower compression ratio, and lower fueling. When the ARP studs show up, I'll pull the head and have a close look at the Raceware studs. I bet they're stripped. I never exceed 50 ftlbs of torque, always cleaned the studs, and always used mineral oil per Raceware's recommendation.
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what about the fact that most people are running 100ft bls on there studs? or will racewares not take that kinda tq?
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To bad about the Racewear studs. My ARP's are torqued to 90ft.lbs. and no evidence of leakage yet.
About pump timing. I was running the timing @ 1.2mm and at first start w/ block heater it smoke just a couple of puffs, but w/out the block heater, it starts right up but smokes to high heaven till it gets some heat into the engine. Note that my engine makes noise like, to far advanced at idle, but when throttled and making boost, the noise seems to decrease. Coolant temps. seem to rise as normal and EGT's seem to rise to 1200 on a hard pull till Gov. kicks in. I reset pump timing to 1.06mm and does not run smooth on first start, but sounds so much better.
I wonder if anyone else is having the same problems. Karl, how about you?
Josh
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I'm actually at 1.19mm, and the EGT is climbing to 1300º F at 25 PSI after running it full throttle through a few gears. I don't have an intercooler yet, but I have the Spruce thermocouple, so i think I'm seeing the actual temperature.
The coolant temp is not climbing as fast as the lower timing settings. I wouldn't classify the nailing at idle to be excessive I wonder if the sweet spot is somewhere between 1.10 and 1.20?
Well, the ARP studs are on order. hopefully I'll get to putz with it some more before the snow/salt season.
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The ARP studs are in and torqued. Just have to hook up all the trinkets and fire it up.
I suspect the Raceware studs I was using lost their proprietary friction reducing coating and didn't provide the clamping force. The gasket didn't look completely compressed either. I think Raceware kind of put them selves in a box with their stud design. They rely on their special friction reducing coating, mineral oil only for the torquing lube, and being very accurate in reaching 50 ftlbs of total torque. Screw any one of those three things up, and you don't get the proper clamping force. In all fairness to Raceware, I think i used the studs four times before they failed to clamp properly. So if you don't plan on pulling your engine apart as often as I do, Raceware will do fine.
ARP on the other hand uses a larger thread diameter, and molybdenum disulphide grease as a lubricant for torquing. The thread pitch looks to be close to Racewares thread pitch, just larger in diameter. So the ARP studs can provide more clamping force, and should be more consistent in thread friction in subsequent installations since they rely only on the moly grease to lube the threads and dictate the thread friction. I think their literature that came with the studs states that the torque value is 75% of failure. Raceware is probably over 80% with their design as the torque to 50, and fail around 60.
the only down side to ARP is its tough lowering the head with the studs in as the larger thread diameter is a very tight fit on the bolt holes in the head.
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The ARP studs did the trick. The car goes like a scalded cat, and there is no leakage of combustion products into the water jacket. The start was a little smoky, but it cleared up as soon as i put it in gear and put a load on it. I'm not going to drive it in winter, so its not a big deal.
I torqued them to 80 ftlbs cold, plugged in the block heater and let it get warm. After it cooled, I retorqued and about 4 stud took a little more twist to get back up to 80 ftlbs. I noticed some folks are going to 90 ftlbs. Is that value coming directly from ARP? My instructions said 80 ftlbs, but yah, its probably the Coswoth specs
I didn't get around to checking the pump timing with the gasket/stud swap. It snowed and the salted, so that's it for the year. I'll putz with that in the spring and try to find the sweet spot between 1.10mm and 1.20 mm.
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53 willys did 110ft/lbs :o
since I have more time and not running yet, I took and old HG and torqued the bolts to 100 ft/lbs. I let them sit for a week and took it all down and redid it all. I have left them torqued for about a month now and I am going to break them loose again and leave it alone until it is time for the real HG...my idea being that I will be stressing them before they are in service so I won't have problems in the future, or have to try and do any kind of retorque to stress relieve like the rod bolts did.
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Hey, saurkraut, I know that you know about my build and how it is similar to yours, but for cold starts someone suggested to me about using a 1,000W block heater. I though why go that far without using something better? I am thinking using an oilpan heater would help too on cold days. the 17.5 static comp is working for you? I plan on porting my head when it gets here too. BTW, sorry to hear about your nerve issue autoimmune? my father has one too :(. Hope you stick around I will def. need to pick your brain "no pun intended", too bad you can't come out and help with the build "there would be cold beer and hot food ;)"
Thanks, and a Very Merry Christmas,
Kevin
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i haven't gotten back to my 1.5TD project yet. See: http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=11786.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=11786.0) On that motor, I used a 1.6 head, which lowered the Cr. below 23:1, but you'd have to look at the post for that motor to see what it is as i don't remember. I plan on returning to it soon. First step will be triage to see if I have a cracked block and need to build a new bottom end. i might use the 1.5 crank, 1.9 rods and 1.6td pistons in a 1.6td block. I'll have way too much piston protrusion with just bolting stuff together, so I have some issues to resolve. You might want to make note of the pump number.
The engine I have running is a 1.6TD block with a 1.9 head. This yields a Cr of 19:1. Starts above 40º F are OK. A little smoky at first, but it clears up as soon as you put a load on the engine. Higher temperatures give better results, with summer temperature leaving no noticeable difference.
The engine does have more measurable power that I can only attribute to the head. Bigger ports, bigger valves, and lower cranking loss is probably what's yielding the gains. I spent too much time (3 head gaskets; two metal, one fiber) trying to get a good seal with my extremely used Raceware studs and I ran out of season to do more testing to dial it in. Finding the right static timing is going to be my spring time activity. I'm close, but I want to find a measurable point with EGT and boost to determine where the best spot is. Apparently, not enough advance raises EGT, raises water jacket temperature, and raises boost. Too much advance can damage pistons with out showing big EGT and other measurables. So I plan on going down to 1.15 mm static timing and sneak it back up past 1.2 mm, record boost, EGT and speed between to fixed points and see if I can reach any conclusions.
I have no data for you on the viability of running a 17:1 compression ratio. There is noticeable differences going from 23:1 to 19:1, and that's 4 points of Cr. 17:1 is 2 points lower.
Perhaps your best bet is to put an engine together and see if the thing will even run.
My nerve disease is ALS or Lou Gehrig's Disease. My right hand is shot, I walk and talk funny, and my memory is less than perfect. But every day is a holiday, and every meal is a banquet. ;D
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ALS is a bad one, one of my friends lost her dad from it a couple years back. it was absolutely rediculious watching him die so slowly from it. it really hit everyone hard when he passed. im pretty sure it took him less than a year from initial diagnosis.
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I am going to run the 1.6 bottom with the aaz head "the post title is deceptive" so it is good to know that static comp will be 19 and not 17 "guys in my thread told me it would be lower" thanks I am keeping the hydro head hydro, and was wondering. If I ran a line from the extra drain hole" VW engineers put it there for a reason" back to the block, or to the oil pan, or posibly overflow, would there be any benefits?
thanks,
Merry christmas
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ALS is a bad one, one of my friends lost her dad from it a couple years back. it was absolutely rediculious watching him die so slowly from it. it really hit everyone hard when he passed. im pretty sure it took him less than a year from initial diagnosis.
yup, its a real crap sandwich. I'm working on my bucket list. Notice the last car in my sig. Its going to be a long winter...,.
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I am going to run the 1.6 bottom with the aaz head "the post title is deceptive" so it is good to know that static comp will be 19 and not 17 "guys in my thread told me it would be lower" thanks I am keeping the hydro head hydro, and was wondering. If I ran a line from the extra drain hole" VW engineers put it there for a reason" back to the block, or to the oil pan, or posibly overflow, would there be any benefits?
thanks,
Merry christmas
no benefit to a hydraulic head really. i would convert it to mechanical lifters. people say you get better power out of mech heads.
and i cant really see there being a benefit to having the oil drain in tact. there are 2 HUGE oil drains in the back of the head, if you have so much oil going up to the head that the 2 big drains cant keep up, there is a problem, not to mention there is a EVEN BIGGER drain in the center of the head on the front. think of a vanagon engine, it lays at 50*. do you think that the top oil drains EVER drain oil back down into the block? i think not, you would have a severe runaway if there was that much oil under the valve cover. and vw car engines lean to atleast 15* towards the back also. so , either way, the front oil drains are not that necessary.
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My nerve disease is ALS or Lou Gehrig's Disease. My right hand is shot, I walk and talk funny, and my memory is less than perfect. But every day is a holiday, and every meal is a banquet. ;D
awww man......I got a little teary eyed readin' that :'(.........I'll be prayin'...........
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Well, it was a productive week end. I got the 1.9 head built up. Pulled the old head, drilled the steam holes in the block, and got the 1.9 head on.
Here is the block after the steam holes were drilled. The bores look really good, with no ridge at the top yet. Synthetic oil is good stuff. Some of the pistons showed a tiny bit of heat damage in a few small areas along the edges. They were allot better than I expected, since I'm running 25+ PSI boost, and have been occasionally approacing 1500° pre-turbo EGT. But since I didn't see any bore scuffing, I'm leaving them in. I may dial back my fuel a bit though. :wink:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0355.jpg)
Can you give a little more detail on this...
Congrats on the build so far. And best wishes on your health.
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There are two holes between each cylinder in the 1.9 headgasket. Just plop the gasket onto the block, start the drilling the holes in block using the gasket as a guide. When you have them all started, remove the gasket and finnish each hole. I used a fresh cobalt bit and it had no problem drilling the iron block.
Interestingly, i chose not to use the metal head gasket. Probably the falt of the worn out raceware studs and trying three in a row with no luck in sealing. I really wanted to drive the gosh darn thing and I didn't have a problem with the fiber 1.6td gasket previously. I was running a butt load of boost with the 1.6 head. And I love to feel boost, so I used every chance I got. Actually, the head gave up and the fiber gasket was fine. Every cylinder had a big crack right across the middle. And it manifested itself as a teeny tiney pressurization of the water jacket.
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Holes in the block good, cracks in the head, very bad, yeah, definately. *rain man* You know the real Rain Man, Kim Peek, passed away in Dec of 09' died before his aging father, sad really. Anywhoo, so how deep do I need to drill said holes? Dirll Press Anyone? ;D
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Holes in the block good, cracks in the head, very bad, yeah, definately. *rain man* You know the real Rain Man, Kim Peek, passed away in Dec of 09' died before his aging father, sad really. Anywhoo, so how deep do I need to drill said holes? Dirll Press Anyone? ;D
clear through...
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I used a cordless Milwaukee drill and a cobalt bit. Go easy on the pressure so you don't snap off the bit when break through. One of my blocks has half a drill bit rattling around in it.....
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What size steam holes did you drill?
As big as the holes in the metal gasket?
I was thinking I could go smaller,.. maybe 1/8".
Or there is a 7/32 in the drill now.
What size are the holes in the 1.9 engine?
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I drilled to about 1/8th, slightly smaller than the holes in the HG. My thinking was that there isn't a substantial amount of flow going through these holes anyways its to balance the hot bottom with the cooler top.
I didnt want the water/coolant to get under the HG.
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GREAT info, my 1.8 gasser have this feature as well curiously enough, it will be in the late stages, right before engine start that I will be able to do this. I have to wait to get the correct h/g and then I can drill the holes, unless someone has an old H/G for an AAZ that they will let me use to drill the holes. ;)
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That is what I did and still have the old aaz gasket. I also painted on it and used it to make my cutout for the oil/water port block since I have a mech head.
I could get it to you for probably $5? PM if interested.
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I wonder how that protrusion affects flow in a ported head. Your shims and solid lifters might actually end up the better solution, so far as smoothness of flow goes.
Yah, I know :( And I'm really not happy about it. But I'm up against the storage season.
I will end up as good as a ported head with the original valve guides. But I know it could be better, and that BUGS me....
The problem that I didn't want to address is the over all geometery of the valves I'd end up running.
There are no valves that are a direct fit, head diameter wise, in a head modified to be a mechanical 1.9 head.
To use VR6 oversized TT exhaust valves as intake valves for the 1.9 head, they needed to be shortened allot to work . The amount that had to be removed would have almost eliminated the top grove for the collets. I could have lived with that. But they were also 0.15mm smaller in head diameter. So it becomes a trigonometery problem figureing how long the stem should be because they'd sit a little deeper in the head, and still end up in the adjustment range of the valve lash shims.
The 1.9 exhaust valve head diameter is also slightly bigger than the 1.6TD exhaste valve. so it has the same problem.
And I really want to try it out befor the snow (salt) starts flying. So its the super long mechanical cam followers for now.
The right answer is custom made valves, and that is not out of the picture. I'll probably go with thinner stems too.
No, the splitty is not mine. But I wish.
Sorry to keep asking you questions, but can you clarify. With these long followers you use the stock 1.9 head everything? or is it still a mixture of random 1.5, 1.6, 1.9 parts...
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Yup, use all the 1.9 stuff: intake, valves, keepers, collettes, etc. I used the 1.6TD exhaust manifold as I had one.
But I recommend using the 1.6 mechanical cam, as the 1.9 cam is a hydro cam, and hydro cams have different profiles.
Ask all the questions you want. No Problem.
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Its raining. The snow is going away. Its almost time to wake this puppy up.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0005.jpg)
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Oh yeah. Get some ;).
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8)
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WAY cool :-D
Thought i would ask - a ways back in the thread OP mentioned using stianless bolts for the turbo - I was just thinking that there are a couple of things worth mentioning about this:
1- stainless fasteners can "bond" in areas that are pressed hard against eachother (like threads), especially when used in high heat areas... this could possibly cause issues with dissasembly in the future
2 - on the plus side, the stainless bolt will lenthen at a similar rate to the flanges/castings/spacer, because they are of similar material - unlike a steel bolt which will lenthen much less than stainless - and hence be tighter, but over its lifetime have higher stress heat cycles. hence, the stainless bolt may last longer in service.
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Yeah I am too going to use stainless. I figured I would use the high heat 2,100 nickel antil seeze on the threads as well. What do you think would happen then. Usually I thought stainless only did that when the metals used were different or you ran it in with an impact and they heat welded themselves. I haven't tried this so let me know if you guys have had experience with this.
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My aircrafdt spruce probe holder is stainless.
Tried to remove it and it took some threads with it.
Gall.
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i think the nickel grease is a good idea.
my EGT 'holder' is stainless too, but i only nip it up - not particularly tight because it really needent be. Never had any probs.
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The original flange bolts are stainless, the manifold is stainless, and the turbo housing is stainless: NiCr 202.
I've had the OEM turbo bolts gall when removing them. Now I gob up everything with Wurth copper antisieze. Really good stuff. Haven't had a problem since.
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Great to see the rabbit coming out, how's it run?
Perhaps more importantly, how do you like the new car? (The one at the bottom of your sig, of course!)
Enjoy it, one like that was the most decieving car I've ever been in. As a passenger, on an 80km/h (50mph) speed limit, climbing a fairly long hill (passing section) with a car near the top, I looked over and we were doing about 120. Oh well, we'll be stuck behind the slower traffic... by the top of the hill we caught the car, we were rolling about 150, and that was when I realized the speedo was in mph! The speed did not surprise me, but the fact that the car just motored along and happily ran that speed without much more driver difficulty than at the speed limit did. I've passengered at that speed more than once, and the porsche was the only car that didn't make me want to say 'pull over and let me drive'.
Really sorry to hear the reasons for the bucket list, but enjoy working through it!
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I haven't had the '79 out yet this year. Been driving the Audi, '84 1.5TD rabbit, and the Porsche. I getting the '79 out next week. last time i drove it, it really hauled a**. I have an Isuzu NPR intercooler to shoe horn in there and an air to liquid oil cooler the incorporate in there too. Hopefully the oil cooler will allow me to run a slightly smaller radiator so the intercooler will slide right in. Then a complete windows out repaint.
The Porsche needed some work; fix oil leaks, repack wheel bearings, new brake lines, change a whole bunch of oil lines, adjust valves, etc. Took a while as everything is tightly packed in there and you have to pull 5 parts off to get to the one you need to fix. Very time consuming. Its done now and its a freak'n blast to drive. i put a 3" free flowing muffler on it, bigger intercooler and big headers to go.
I have to pull the turbo off the 1.5td. I think the waste gate is stuck open.
it never ends....
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Its raining. The snow is going away. Its almost time to wake this puppy up.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0005.jpg)
That is a beautiful Rabbit. We had our '77 1.5na sprayed in a metallic brown, roughly that shade, by a Porsche body shop here in SoCal. Yours looks period-perfect with the front end mods & the gold-centered BBS rims. Nice work.
Is that a big anti-sway bar peeking out from under your Rabbit's rear?
Thanks for all the info.
J.R.
SoCal
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Laundry list:
Neuspeed sway bars front and rear
Sachs shocks
VW BBS wheels
Autotech 4 point adjustable sub frame
2.5" stainless steel exhaust; the first SS Techtonics 2.5" down pipe, Yarrow Sport 2.5" SS exhaust, big SS Turbo muffler (forgot who made it)
VW OEM fender flares
Early FN trans with taller 5th gear
Kami Grill spoiler
Hella Grill with H4 headlights + 80W/100W bulbs
Sturn relayed head light harness with really big wires
German Postal tail lights with LED bulbs
Rear Euro bumper
VDO boost and EGT gauges, spruce thermocouple
Techtonics short shift kit
1.9 head
Smog GTD injector nozzles
G60 Valve cover
Stuff I have that I have to install:
Front Euro bumper with OEM rub strips
Black Forest front frame brace
VW OEM Windshield fairings
Kami rear hatch spoiler
Bonrath deep front spoiler
Giles stage 4 TD injection pump
air to oil thermostatically controlled oil cooler
Isuzu NPR inter cooler
GTD grill badge (Thanks Burn)
Golf GTD rear hatch badge
Blaupunkt Frankfurt Radio
There might be more, but my memory is being nuked by ALS. I'll have to dig through my stash and see if I have any more goodies
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Wow! Nice integration of all the pieces. First time I've seen that Hella grille; ours did not have the upper 'lip'. Looks great.
What size rims & tires are mounted up in the picture? Although they look super, I'm too lazy to have BBS rims, or any 'basket/mesh center wheels! Just cleaning GTI wheels is more my speed!
Does the Kamei spoiler get hit much? Haven't mounted mine yet.
Thanks for the info. Sorry the ALS crap has grabbed you. Wishing you the best possible outcomes.
J.R.
SoCal
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First time I've seen that Hella grille; ours did not have the upper 'lip'. Looks great.
That's a Hella grill with the Kami Grill spoiler. It uses teeny screws to fasten to the upper edge of the grill. I don't know if i does much but look cool.
The rims are 14", I have Brigdestone Potensa Pole Position V rated Tires.
The front chin spoiler only came off once when I hit a black garbage bag full of leaves at night while passing another car.
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Hey Saurkraut, thank you for an informative thread, I just finished reading the whole thing. I learned lots from this. Sorry about the ALS.