VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: Smoker on March 28, 2014, 11:16:24 am
-
I've done some googling, I know guys have successfully run 020's with some power in front of them, and others have grenaded them. Looking for some real world experience from you guys. I'm putting a caddy together on the cheap. I have a complete mk3 donor car with a good trans, and my original plan was to go with the 02a... however, the more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards keeping the 020 (at least for now). The motor will hopefully be running a rover pump, and I'll stick with the stock turbo and nozzles for now. The idea is to have a cool old shop truck/parts runner that's fun to drive and economical, not a race car. What do you guys think?
-
Use a mk1 020 they are supposed to be more robust than a mk2 or 3. Put a diff bolt kit into it as well.
-
If I were doing it,the 02A is a much better trans to repair, handle more Hp and all the rest. However, going into your caddy, you need a custom trans mounts (mk3 mount will not work in MK1, will in MK2 or 3), pedals, master and slave cylinders, clutch, starter, Mk3 cable shifter. You have a parts car for most of the stuff, but are u sure you have an 02A in the MK3. I just bought a 99 (mind you it canadian) MK3 with a 2.0l and it still has a 020.
It's a big task. If you have the time it's well worth it
I have do it as well and will be doing it with this car (I have a passat 1Z with 02A) into this 99 MK3 gasser.
I already have a MK3 with a 1.6 and 02A, much nicer shifting, I used a .681 fifth - perfect for highway cruising. You could probably go lower with a .658 fifth with a TDI.
-
Yeah the difference in labor is my only concern. It's just hard for me to justify converting the shifter box, hydro setup, and fabbing mounts for the 02a IF the 020 would hold up.
And I have yet to pop the hood on the donor car, lol, but I've never seen a tdi with an 020 from the factory...
Bbob, I'm leaning more that way all the time. I have a mk1 diesel 5-speed trans.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
-
aba cars were all 020, tdi were 02a. alot of people on here have used 020, including 8v of fury, i think as long as you drive sensibly you'll be ok, i'd recommend an upgraded clutch tho, i know just from cranking the boost in my 1.6td the clutch would start slipping after some hard driving.
-
I'd highly recommend adding a bolt kit to the diff... Those stupid rivets in the ring gear are the weakest part of the 020.
(https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1623782_10152227414346427_1960749778_n.jpg)
^^^ That's what happens when the rivets back out over time. Mine was on a 1.6TD with lots of boost and a big IC. I don't drive crazy, never was spinning the wheels or anything like that. It blew apart when I was downshifting coming off a highway one day but I believe it had been in progress for quite some time before that.
-
Might want to see if someone would trade for a mk1 gas with the 3.67 r&p would be better.. w/ a 1.6 020 and a tdi you will be spinning the tires off a stop.
-
a gasser 3.67 with a .75 gear would be perfect, cruising speed's at about 3000 rpm at 65 mph or so.
-
also i kind of wonder if the mk3 020s were actually worse, or if the problem had more to do with the mk3 being heavier and having a more powerful engine.
-
Yeah I've seen plenty of busted 020's over the years. Interesting what bbob said about mk1 trannies being stronger than the later ones... I always assumed that they held up better because the cars were lighter.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
-
Those stupid rivets in the ring gear
Took the words out of my mouth. I've also been bitten by this bit of bean counter engineering.
So......... count that another vote for deep sixing the crownwheel rivets.
Sod of a job, but brokevw's website explains it quite well
-
From what I have gathered the only 020's that were stronger were the 4 speeds. And the only better part of the 020 in the MKi vs the MKii and MKiii was they used a completely different rivet in the MKi that doesn't self machine like the later ones.
If you do a bolt kit it is really only needed in the MKII and MKIII, but if you go to all that work and you are worried about the labor, I would install the 02A. At that point you will have much more time in the 020 breaking it down to the point of the ring gear and you would end up with a better trans.
-
02a and 02j can get sms too hahaha. not as common tho, and honestly i have seen more people completely losing gears than having a problem with sms on 020s. also losing reverse is really really common on 020.
-
I also went back and forth between the two when I was prepping for my swap. I decided on the 02a because in my case this car is my primary long-term driver and I wanted longer legs and future power upgrade potential. A mkII is much easier to swap cable shift and hydro clutch into than your Caddy though, so labor is definately a bigger factor for you. Cable clutch conversion for the 02a is possible, but I decided against it because the cable routing ends up being funky and you get a very heavy actuation from what I had gathered. If this thing's just going to be a knock around town car, you leave stock size tires, and the transmission is in decent enough nick to start with I think you could get away with the 020 for awhile just to get it on the road.
-
mk1 weaker 5th gear then mk2+.... not good idea on tdi... they spin the 5th gear on pinion shaft with 1.6 na when you usee it stupidly.. ive done it... my high hp gasser in 94 broke 5th gear free on the main shaft!!..
get person like me to build you a mk2 020.. and it will last.. no garentee on 5th gear life.. but ive resolved boy racer 3 in a month with 1.. and that 1 was put in multi cars after i built it cause he killed cars then..
the issue is 5th gear needs so much oil.. but say cruizin at 70 and bury foot in 5th.. or towing.. they wipe 5th pretty easy.. why the 02a came up.. but 02a throw diff pins too!!
me and my new boss will have to revisit the 02a i got with holes in it.. to explore a solution better then the one poortex uses.. trust me my mind has ideas.. and new boss can be motivation!!. i likes my new boss and job.. hate being home this weekend..
-
hate being home this weekend..
Wanna trade??? This is what I'm doing at 1am on a Saturday night...
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj1/kylesmoker/20140330_000121_zpsruacpxck.jpg)
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
-
I fully agree with Chris, that the 5th's are the weak spot of the 020. Their reverse gears aren't anything to write home about either..
--
I have been using an unknown-km 1986 ACN-020 behind an AHU M-TDI for just over 2 years at this point right now. I do tow with it (have been up to 1400lbs on the back of it) and I do drive spirited. If you get on it before the boost really picks up it will slip the clutch rarely in 4th and most times in 5th. But what are you doing really hard punching the pedal pre-boost right? lol
Even stock 02A/02J are weak at one or more points internally.. Granted it is more beneficial to build one of those over an 020, either 4 or 5 speed.
-
isn't the 5th problem some what to do with oiling? at low speeds the oil isn't getting splashed around over to the 5th gear enough. so stay out of 5th at low speeds?
-
isn't the 5th problem some what to do with oiling? at low speeds the oil isn't getting splashed around over to the 5th gear enough. so stay out of 5th at low speeds?
Wouldn't that mean that we'd see lots of blown up 5th gears from everyone who tends to lug the motor a bit?
-
The 020 5 speed was created by adding an extension on the 4 speed case, it wasn't "meant" to be a 5 speed from the beginning. As a result there are some design trade-offs.
5th sits high on the transmission. If the oil level is at all low 5th gear suffers before any of the others. This also means you can drive around with low gear oil for quite a long time in the city without noticing a problem.
The "typical" failure goes:
- fluid gets low over time
- take the car on a long highway trip
- 5th starts getting hot since it isn't properly lubricated
- the plastic bearing retainer starts getting soft and melting
- transmission pops out of gear
By that point 5th is probably heat damaged plus the bearing is in questionable condition. Just filling it up again may sort things for a while but it's a downhill slope from there.
The real takeaway is "make sure your transmission has the proper amount of gear oil in it"
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk
-
I'm just gonna go with the 02a. My goal is to keep this truck long term and use it as a truck, so rather than taking the easy road now and then doing the trans conversion later, I'll just do it all at once.
-
The 02A is definitely a better transmission. Looks like you will have a bit of fun getting one in to a Mk1 chassis though. The 02A is hydraulic clutch and cable shift, the 020 is cable clutch and linkage shift. I don't know if the 02A has provisions for a Mk1-compatible mount bracket either. I am absolutely sure that there are other Mk1-chassis vehicles out there with 02As though.
-
The 02A is definitely a better transmission. Looks like you will have a bit of fun getting one in to a Mk1 chassis though. The 02A is hydraulic clutch and cable shift, the 020 is cable clutch and linkage shift. I don't know if the 02A has provisions for a Mk1-compatible mount bracket either. I am absolutely sure that there are other Mk1-chassis vehicles out there with 02As though.
they make mounts for 02a in a mk1 now. the only challenging part of the swap imo is the clutch, if it were me i'd just use the eurovan parts to go cable clutch...
-
I think the clutch is easy as it is hydro and just like routing brake line. The shift tower I would get an O2J style. I have seen a guy put the normal 02J style in with the stock MK2 bolts and just used fender washers to secure it with the stock bolt locations.
-
Yeah there's nothing extremely complicated about the conversion, just time consuming. I've seen a few cases where guys have put the clutch master inside the car, mounted on the stock pedal. I need to take some measurements as soon as I get the donor car back to my shop. Has anyone here done that specifically? Seems like it would be easier than mounting it on the firewall...
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
-
I think the clutch is easy as it is hydro and just like routing brake line. The shift tower I would get an O2J style. I have seen a guy put the normal 02J style in with the stock MK2 bolts and just used fender washers to secure it with the stock bolt locations.
oh yes, i just meant the clutch is the only part that doesn't just bolt in super simply, like the shifter is not much of a challenge to adapt.