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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Typrus on November 23, 2008, 03:43:38 pm
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So my buddy and I got a 1.5 out of a 79 Rabbit, 5-speed tranny and all, from our high school when we helped disassemble the car 2 years ago. We tried to fire it over half-heartedly a few times, but never got it to do more than chug for a bit.
So we buckled down last night to get it going.
We rigged up a tank over it with a small in-line filter pre-pump, got all the lines snugged up, double-checked oil, blocked it up on the shop floor, got everything rigged up...
Wouldn't go on its own. Hit the glows for 20 seconds at a time (slow-glows?) and tried. Messed with the valve on the back (does pulled towards the tranny mean advanced, or pushed towards the pulleys??) Loosened the pressure lines to bleed the air...
Nada. Just some white smoke.
So we get some diesel starting fluid.
This part is fun.
By this point the little block heater has the head lukewarm.
Neither of us had experience ethering a diesel. Only gassers. So we're cranking, spraying hard down the intake runners... All 4 got hit... Nada. Keep cranking, and it starts to chuff. Hit it with a little more. It revs up a bit... THEN GOES MAD! Revving way high. I, standing up, throw the can of starting fluid and book it... The wrong way (I ran into the shop bay, not out of lol) and my buddy, who was sitting next to it on the ground calmly unplugs the fuel cut, the rest of the power buss we rigged, stands up, AND BOOKS IT OUT THE SHOP.. lol. About this time, I realize climbing on top of the small block chevy at the back of the shop will do nothing for me, so I book it out past the still revving engine and outside. About 40 feet from the shop, it starts to miss a bit, slows down, chugs a little, then stops. We sit panting from the panic, then start laughing madly. We then go up, check for damage... None. Still cranks with the same off-beat crank of my buddies 4.3L Buick diesel V-6 (only less cylinders obviously) it sounds no different than before.
After much more laughing, we get to trying to VERY conservatively get it to light off. A quick hit, it revs up a bit, runs on its own diesel with me holding at WOT, I back off as the revs climb, it sputters and dies. After a while of going at it, we get it to run down to half throttle. Anything less and it chokes out.
SO... The Rabbit sat in the schools shop for maybe 5-10 years. Not sure. IT drove in happily when it came, but was not started regularly. This is the teachers account anyway. Then they just stopped starting it period, and some kids tore up the wiring harness inside so it wouldn't do anything anyway. I took it from the school, and it sat in my shop for about a year, with me trying a few times to get it to light. We then transferred it to my buddies shop where it sat until the other night.
SO... Any ideas why we'd be having such a hard time? The glow plugs do heat up to the point of smoking the carbon on their tips, but not red-hot like all the other glows I've seen.
Not sure if maybe the IP is internally dried up or tired, not sure if the injectors are sticky, or maybe just sticky rings causing mediocre compression.
But lemme tell you, running off that funky factory 4-2-1 manifold it has it sounds pretty beefy for a little engine...
BT?W, the eventual goal is to put this in a crazy 5-speed home-made gokart with a frame made of 1.5x3x.25" angle iron welded together. Yes, a redneck hackjob, but fun regardless. Maybe eventually put a low-boost turbo on it. 4, 5, maybe 6 PSI?
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but kiss those glow plugs good by! by using starting fluid ! that will wreck them everytime!
Duane
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lol... Heinsight is hilarity.
The glows still work as good/bad as they did before.
Its sitting on a makeshift test stand in the middle of my buddies shop. Not in a vehicle. If it was in a car I'd have bogged it down in 5th with the brakes stomped.
Also the crank vent is not hooked to the manifold right now.
It is cranking nicely. We had over 2000CCA of battery hooked to it. both the batteries in his 4.3L IDI Buick and both from his 6.2 IDI GMC. Then the battery charger hooked up to all of that on 40amp. With 2 gauge jumper cables.
Any way to un-stick the injectors? Its clear more than one is working or I doubt it'd even run at WOT.........
The 1.5L has a factory red of 6 grand, right? Not sure where it went during this, but I'd say it likely wasn't far off from that.
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did the pump sit dry or full? i would imagine that it must be a little gummed up if it sat with the old diesel in it... seals all swollen... feed pump probably sticking... it might benefit from getting some lubro-moly diesel purge run through it. that will clean not only the pump, but the injectors as well.
sticky rings are also a possibility, but if it was revving as insanely as you said, i would imagine them to be free now, if not really worn in :lol: you could probably use rislone engine flush or some similar product to help free sticky engine parts. not a bad idea for a motor thats been sitting for a while...
great story though!!! 8)
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Full. Lol.
Would SeaFoam work? The only place with LubroMoly anything near me is 45 minutes away. Though I do buy a lot of MOS2 for my other cars.. Once we get this running we'll likely use it on it as well.
There was a little oil in the exhaust when that rev got done lol... If we can get it running fairly well we plan to run some NAPA Motor Flush with cheap oil, BG 109 with cheap oil through it and another round o' cheap oil to try and get it gunk-free and start running Rotella 5W-40. Or Schaeffer's Supreme 7000 15W-40. Also might throw on an oil-cooler when it goes on the cart. Maybe off of a 1Z or ALH if it'll mount. I like the water-oil cooling for less than crazy motors. If we go for a light-boost turbo we will likely do an air-oil cooler with thermostatic bypass and the likes.
How much heat these things usually generate? Not too much? Not like the factory 2-core cross-flow rad is all that big. Still have it. Might go for a similar sized aluminum core one from a random car. Preferrably with cap on the rad, as we don't have the pressurized overflow for it.
I'd imagine the lifters are also probably pretty gummy.... Are they hydraulic units?
We'll get it figured out.. lol
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The 1.5 will have solid lifters.
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using ether on anything but a big tractor motor is a bad idea, and a great way to bend rods, seen it many times, ether and other starting fluids explode with s much force and such a fast burn that it will do a lot of damage, sometimes you will get lucky though, but i dont recommend pushing ur luck, its only ok in big old tractor motors because they have huge parts to absorb the impact, and generally have lower compression ratios.
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SeaFoam = good.
Give it a try if you have it. It will be a cumulative result however, as in it will take a long time for the SeaFoam to do its job.
You could unhook the inlet fuel line and suck it right from the can then shut down the engine as soon as the car was about empty, this should leave most of the SeaFoam in the pump and injectors. Let it sit for at least 24 hrs then run it on diesel again and probably a full can in the tank as well.
You really should take the injectors out and apart for cleaning though.
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Maybe I missed it, but did you connect the fuel solenoid in the injection pump ( IP ) to the 12v ? Did you hear its click - in when you did ? (Required) The fuel lift pump you spoke of, is it a 4 - 5 psi electric pump like old carbureted cars used ? This will be enough pressure to flow fuel through the IP and out its return line. Was there fuel coming out the return lines ? There should be if you had the IP connected to pressurized fuel.
My guess is, you didn't have the IP full of fuel (maybe gummed up if you did all these other things) and the ether pooled in the intake, thus when you got it to start, it ran away until the ether was consumed. Maybe you broke some things, maybe not, but the price was right it sounds like.
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By pre-pump I meant before the IP. The tank is suspended about 2 feet above the motor, so gravity is helping a bit.
The fuel cut colenoid does click. And yes it was energized.
We could hook up the lift-pump off of my buddies 4.3L Buick diesel. It pushes 4-6PSI to the DB2 on it. We may try that if the lack of success keeps up. But we'll yank injectors and give them a good tooth-brush crubbing. Can't be much harder than swapping nozzles on our 1Z. lol.
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Before I pulled the injectors, I'd crack the high pressure lines at the injectors and get fuel to squirt out of all of them first. I bet your IP is dry.
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Then if you do pull the injectors you need new heat shields before you re install and make sure you use a torque wrench and go to 51' lbs.
BTW, I giggled loud enough while reading your story all my co workers came over to see what was up.
Not a one of them got it.. Dorks.
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lol.
We did crack the high pressure lines of 3 and 4 to get them primed.
Could be that its a little sticky inside, thus why it was slowly getting better?
New heat sheilds eh? I'll see if there are any in the area. Otherwise we'll just get it running on Diesel Purge and/or SF.
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Loosen the injection pump mounting bolts and have someone crank the starter while you turn the injection pump,... until you find the spot where it likes to start.
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Loosen the injection pump mounting bolts and have someone crank the starter while you turn the injection pump,... until you find the spot where it likes to start.
Great idea. This was a HS shop car so who knows if someone messed with the timing.
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Pull the cold start lever out when you do this.
HS project damn, it could be anything. :)
If the injectors were stuck open, you would think there was a man with a hammer trying to bang his way out of your engine.
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typrus friend here...... after much hell in get and account here. :evil:
run a can of diesel purge through the 1.5 today. no luck. :(
when timing the ip do we need to adjust the tenstion on the timing belt?
going to run a comp check on hole number 4 tomarrow (hope my deisel compression checker fits in the vw glowplug holes)
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Yeah, he ran the entire can of Diesel Purge through, in straight concentration. No change in behavior.
He did a bit of work on it while I was at work and said that it'll run at half throttle or higher, and do it fairly well, but still smoke like a fiend.
I can't imagine changing timing having anything at all to do with timing belt tension, but I have been wrong. I didn't re-tension our 1Z's belt after changing the timing after a belt change.
We'll fiddle with timing when I get a chance to get back over to his place. Anyone think it needs more advance or more retard? The cold start lever changes nothing in behavior.
Also, as I do not remember from doing the 1Z... Is rotate into the block advance or retard?
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If you follow the procedure for a timing belt change, you'll set the tension before you check the timing with the dial indicator. You should not need to change the belt tension again. If you have to, there's something wrong - loose tensioning pulley ? What did you time it to ? Mine's 0.039"