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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: jhonyquest97 on April 17, 2018, 03:54:36 pm

Title: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 17, 2018, 03:54:36 pm
1.6 d.
Had it running and it got a leak at the high pressure head and I replaced the gasket by removing the pump from the car.

Now she won't start. Here's what I have done already.

New battery 800cca

Tested stop solenoid in the pump as well as out of the pump. Functions properly.

Verified timing or motor at flywheel, camlobes and lock, and lock in injection pump pulley.

Installed clear fuel lines

Installed a temporary electric fuel pump between filter and IP.

Filled IP at inlet and outlet   

Ran electric pump to verify fuel coming through to IP

Cracked the fuel lines at injectors and also tried at the head on the pump and cranked the motor. Got no fuel.

Ran direct line from battery to stop solenoid



Here's what I'm seeing.

10v at stop solenoid even with brand new battery.

After cranking air bubbles slowly backing out of the inlet on the IP.




I'm at a loss here for what to do. I mean how can I get fuel through the pump? 

Any help is greatly appreciated
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: sgnimj96 on April 17, 2018, 04:27:37 pm
jump the fuel solenoid  straight from the battery to test with full voltage.   

 Take the plunger out of the fuel solenoid if you're still not getting fuel (just to see if you can get fuel out the lines at the injectors).    A mechanical failure of the fuel stop solenoid seems rare tho.    It's just a magnetic thing,  if you take the plunger out it has fuel all the time.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: ToddA1 on April 17, 2018, 04:40:47 pm
10v all the time, or just when the GPs are on?  Agreed, jump the solenoid.

Smoke at the tailpipe?  Were you able to bleed the lines? 

-Todd
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 17, 2018, 07:03:58 pm
I'll pull the plunger. It would be odd because also because I've tested it out of the pump by jumping it to the battery. Pulls back hard. Can't hurt to try though.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 17, 2018, 07:12:11 pm
If I turn the electric pump on will the fuel theoretically flow through?  Or does the pulley need to be spinning
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: sgnimj96 on April 17, 2018, 07:53:02 pm
If I turn the electric pump on will the fuel theoretically flow through?  Or does the pulley need to be spinning

Sure,  but the out-bolt restricts the flow considerably.    The out bolt orifice is so tiny,  the pressure on the return lines is like 2psi.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 18, 2018, 12:02:23 pm
Ok so I pulled the plunger and 12v at solenoid (not that it matters right lol)

Hooked up the electric pump

Disconnected the fuel hardlines from the IP

Cranked the motor twice for 15-20 seconds.

Nada. No fuel comming out the head

Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: sgnimj96 on April 18, 2018, 02:34:02 pm
?

Maybe you should elaborate on how exactly you fixed the leak in the injection pump.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 18, 2018, 02:54:46 pm
Took the pump off. Loosened the four head bolts one half turn at a time while tightening a longer bolt in the timing port. Did this little by little until I saw the oring. Cut that oring off and stretched the new oring over the head, into the groove for it.  Then did reverse. Slowly tightening the four bolts and loosening the timing port bolt.

You think something felt out in there?
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: libbydiesel on April 18, 2018, 03:02:13 pm
If the stop solenoid plunger is removed and you are showing fuel flowing through feed and return lines, and still you have no fuel spitting from the delivery valves, I would have to assume that something internal is not correct (e.g. snapped plunger). 
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 18, 2018, 03:57:59 pm
I'll check to see if it's actually going out the return line. It's seems more like its just not flowing through at all but I'm not sure until I get clear lines on the return line.

I mean I see fuel moving as I crank the motor so maybe it is
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: fatmobile on April 19, 2018, 01:30:23 pm
When you say you installed clear fuel lines,.. did you put one on the return line?
 Weird that air comes out of the front of the pump, even though you have a helper pump.
 Did you swap banjo bolts and put the "OUT" bolt on the front of the pump?
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 19, 2018, 05:19:50 pm
I just ran the clear lines from the inlet and outlet. With the electric pump running the fuel flows through and out the return line. However when I crank the motor over, 25 secs this morning, nothing comes out the ports on the head. Could the plunger still read on the timing dial and not deliver fuel? 

Does Giles still build pumps. I think I'm over this one...
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: sgnimj96 on April 19, 2018, 06:11:32 pm
Seems like the dial indicator would show if the plunger is broken or the rollers fell out
https://youtu.be/9-GSNR7W73M?t=22

Disassembly, cleaning and replacement of all the seals isn't a bad idea anytime one of the seals starts leaking- so don't feel bad about wanting to do that.     A lot of crud could be inside the pump, too.   

Maybe the spill ring got disconnected? ;  I'm not sure of the odds of that being the problem.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: libbydiesel on April 19, 2018, 07:08:04 pm
Plunger could be snapped without the dial indicator showing it.  It will still ride up and down with the camplate lifting it and the dial indicator exerting spring pressure to return the snapped part.  It just wouldn't pump fuel because it would all leak out the break.  You'd have to pull the head out very far for a camplate roller to fall out of place.  The little shim at the end of the plunger is the concern.  If that falls out of place, it can put uneven pressure on the plunger foot and snap the plunger.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: burn_your_money on April 19, 2018, 07:21:26 pm
Yes Giles still builds pumps. I agree with the snapped plunger idea.

I'd recommend not turning the pump over any more until you've completely removed the head to see what's wrong in there. You may still be able to dodge a bullet.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 19, 2018, 07:41:26 pm
Well I might see if I can find a used functioning pump and see. I'd like to get a Giles but not sure if I can find or afford one right now.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: sgnimj96 on April 19, 2018, 09:40:53 pm
keep pushing your luck with a used pump?   
http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisplay.php?860-Diesel-Parts
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 19, 2018, 10:23:15 pm
There's some rebuilt pumps on eBay I might just do. Half the price a Giles. If I had a td maybe it would be more worth it. Eventually swapping something bigger in it but not for a few years.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: ORCoaster on April 20, 2018, 12:49:12 am
You can just buy the head and plunger combination and not replace the entire pump.  You know that right?
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: sgnimj96 on April 20, 2018, 04:10:14 pm
this guy sells a plethora of replicated parts at seafood dinner prices
http://www.hansautoparts.com/1979-1984jetta.aspx
mixed reviews,  but it's an option
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 20, 2018, 08:40:01 pm
You can just buy the head and plunger combination and not replace the entire pump.  You know that right?


Completely aware. I don't have the time, knowledge or patience at this point to deal with it.  I need to have it back on the road in a week or two max because it makes my things easier for my business having a pickup.

And that hans guy was the person I saw.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: ORCoaster on April 20, 2018, 10:54:28 pm
Should I test my spare pump? I will be swapping over my Caddy to a turbo starting this weekend.  If I just took the working pump off of my truck and drained it would you be interested in that? 

Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: burn_your_money on April 21, 2018, 12:06:03 am
this guy sells a plethora of replicated parts at seafood dinner prices
http://www.hansautoparts.com/1979-1984jetta.aspx
mixed reviews,  but it's an option

If all you get from dealing with Prothe is frustration, you've done well. Keep looking.
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: jhonyquest97 on April 21, 2018, 03:39:30 pm
Should I test my spare pump? I will be swapping over my Caddy to a turbo starting this weekend.  If I just took the working pump off of my truck and drained it would you be interested in that?

Yea let me know. Definitely interested
Title: Re: No fuel at injectors
Post by: ORCoaster on April 21, 2018, 10:32:02 pm
Going PM for that more involved discussion.