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General Information => FAQ/Tech Tips/Please Read First => Topic started by: Syncroincity on May 08, 2014, 12:47:33 am

Title: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: Syncroincity on May 08, 2014, 12:47:33 am
I have a nice fat 120 amp alternator out of a TDI attached to my AAZ install, the problem was; no W terminal to run the tach. I used a MKII "2.22" diesel tach fitted into my original Vanagon instrument cluster. I used this alternator to provide; 1. Clutched over-run pulley to take the strain off the AAZ crank nose with the serpentine setup, and 2. AMPS, baby.

Plastic cover and easily detachable brush pack... remove a few screws and you're looking at the stator windings. Check your brush condition while you're in here.

Photos are representative; not my alternator.

(http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/b5/alt1.jpg)


(http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/b5/alt4.jpg)

On these alts, the winding wires terminate in these little loops that mechanically crimp and lock them in. The outermost ones are what you need, one that does not connect to a diode. Red arrows in the pic below. (You can see the diodes below the other connections, round, fairly obvious.)  Find one with a little space between the winding wires, or use a screwdriver blade to spread one open a bit. Clean with a wire brush to expose good bare metal, and loop a wire end into it and re-crimp the winding ends. Solder the wire. I had to use a butane torch, my soldering iron wouldn't quite heat everything up enough.


(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1204093.jpg)

In the Vanagon, connect that wire to the solid blue wire in your junction box if present.


Result: tachometer reading! I have no way to verify the RPMs, but it seems close to where it should be, a bit high maybe... shows about 900 at idle. The serpentine pulley is slightly smaller than the v-belt pulley. I'll have to go in and find the adjustment pot on the tach one of these days.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: theman53 on May 08, 2014, 07:28:47 am
good deal. It just picks up off one of the stator wires for the w signal then?
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: GEE-BEE on May 08, 2014, 10:29:59 am
I found a local shop that has new and ohc units with the W terminal

They offer powdercoated housings also for 45.00 in any color

I have a 90 and 120 amp core

GB
Title: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on May 08, 2014, 10:39:13 am
There is an AAZ 120A alternator with a W terminal in the wild... I put one on my build. :-D  But this is great for anyone that has a non-W alternator already!

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: Syncroincity on May 09, 2014, 12:13:54 am
good deal. It just picks up off one of the stator wires for the w signal then?

Exactly, and it doesn't matter which one you pick (there are six, 3 pairs), as long as you tap it before the diodes.

I'd seen a few how-to threads about this but all were kind of vague about wire placement, and most concerned the older style alternators.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: Syncroincity on May 09, 2014, 12:18:49 am

They offer powdercoated housings also for 45.00 in any color


This would be nice... All my AL components look like absolute crap.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rodpaslow on September 22, 2014, 10:01:40 pm
(http://[URL=http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/rodderboost/media/20140922_194315_zpsa32d5edc.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m618/rodderboost/20140922_194315_zpsa32d5edc.jpg)[/URL][/img]
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rodpaslow on September 22, 2014, 10:02:45 pm
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m618/rodderboost/20140922_194315_zpsa32d5edc.jpg) (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/rodderboost/media/20140922_194315_zpsa32d5edc.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rodpaslow on September 22, 2014, 10:06:56 pm
I added this picture as I have an older 1Z/AHU alternator with the back plastic off and I removed brushes as I will likely replace them.  I cannot tell with this one if a set (these stand upright towards the camera) is connecting to the diode.  Is there a trick to telling what does and what does not?
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rodpaslow on September 22, 2014, 10:14:13 pm
Are the center ones part of the diodes?  Can a person use a ohm meter to test connectivity to them?

I saw on another site (4 x4 of some kind) had a picture quite similar and connected a wire to one of the six and his worked.  I'm assuming like the one above it matters which of the six.  do I need to take it apart further to see which are which?
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rodpaslow on September 24, 2014, 01:10:34 am
If you go from the top clockwise I tried the 4th one.  No dice, did not have the signal or check with mutimeter.  This post has a different alternator to start with, but I see the end posts both are useable.  I'm going to try one of the end ones next.  Pulled the alternator apart, nothing inside helps to determine which post will work.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: vanbcguy on September 24, 2014, 11:10:21 am
There are quite a lot of usable alternators that do have the 'W' terminal for what it's worth.  I have a 120A serpentine one.  For some reason a lot of the ABA motors have an alternator that came with a 'W' terminal, so there are loads of them available.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rodpaslow on September 24, 2014, 12:05:01 pm
vanbcguy, I have a ABA unit (that's what the car originally had in it) serp.  I haven't even looked at it thinking it would not be worth even trying it assuming the mounting would be different and no W.  Let me have a look at it later today as it is from an Can ABA motor.  If it doesn't have a W I will certainly buy the one you have - maybe pm me price just in case.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: vanbcguy on September 24, 2014, 06:11:47 pm
Hey sorry, I meant I have one on my car, not that I have one for sale...

Part number is AL0184X - I bought mine from FCP Euro

http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volkswagen-alternator-cabrio-corrado-eurovan-golf-jetta-passat-transporter-al0184x

The 'W' terminal is on the 2-pin connector on the end of the alternator. 
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: GEE-BEE on September 24, 2014, 10:24:30 pm
Same one I used on my White alternator

GB
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rodpaslow on September 25, 2014, 11:51:40 am
Yeah, I have an alternator that has the W and installed it last night - was from the 2.0 ABA.  Works fine.  I have a new VDO tach, just have to set the pots later today and also has a potentiometer so if it's off a bit I can adjust it.  I bought a cheap china electronic hand held tach, Just add a piece of it's reflective sticker to the crank and it tells speed - seems like it works well enough.  Will adjust the VDO to match it - cause I hate not having a tach.

Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rodpaslow on September 26, 2014, 12:07:46 pm
I now have a working tach -  current idle is about 786, by my cheap china hand held, so I set it to just below the 800 mark.

W alternator is so much easier than finding a winding before the doide on this type of alternator - in my opinion.  I'm have virtually no electronics experience ...
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rotaecho on January 11, 2016, 09:01:47 pm
I'm also getting ready for a mTDI (AHU) conversion in my Westy as well and was looking for an alternator that would mount to the block that would accept the W terminal.

Reading this post the AL0184X would be a good way to obtain the W terminal.

I have the following questions:

Does this alternator have the same/similar RPM setups for the diesels?

What is required for getting the proper Tach RPM's setup for an mk2 (CE1 diesel tachometer?) configured properly for RPMs? Should an m-TDI AHU idle around 750?

Thanks! Really hoping to get a tachometer solution figured out for my conversion.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: vanbcguy on January 22, 2016, 02:19:08 am
I have the AL0184X on mine... Works fine.

The tach you have should just plug in and work if it's for a diesel.  No magic... Not sure if there is an adjustment on those older ones, I don't think there is.  The tach will be approximately right though.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: libbydiesel on January 22, 2016, 09:20:21 am
There is an adjustment pot in the circuit of each of the tachs back to mk1.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: rotaecho on February 11, 2016, 10:52:08 pm
Thanks Libby, sounds like a better option for a mTDI setup would be using the AL0184X with the W terminal. That way there's no prying off the plastic back and soldering a wire to a stock TDI alternator.

There is an adjustment pot in the circuit of each of the tachs back to mk1.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: Achilles3588 on April 05, 2020, 12:06:47 pm
Swapping a 1.6 TD JX for a 1.9 mTDI AFN in a '91 Syncro Doka.

The bright shiny new Bosch Alternator Model No. AL0723X that came with the AFN does not have an explicitly W signal, rather B+, D+ and finally DF. I have seen pics above of the AL0184X where the W connection is exactly where the 0723X places the DF in a two pin connector. When looking at AHU wiring schematics it appears the DF signal is effectively equivalent to the W but that's a simplified schematic and is without looking at the alternator internals or the mfr's internal schematic. Does anyone know if the connecting the JX's W wire to the alternator's DF terminal will accomplish the tach signal objective? I don't want to void the warranty on the new alternator by making the above mods.
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: libbydiesel on April 05, 2020, 08:13:35 pm
The AHU alternators I have used have had the W terminal as a marked connection.  I have not used an AFN alt. 
Title: Re: Add "W" terminal wire to Bosch/Valeo serp-belt TDI alternator
Post by: Frankly21 on October 26, 2021, 02:24:50 pm
Check your brushes and if not, see maybe where the cable does not connect at the alternator, how it connects