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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: theman53 on July 18, 2012, 11:39:55 pm

Title: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 18, 2012, 11:39:55 pm
Here was version 1 =  http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=16572.0

The new engine will be going into the same car.

Now onto version 2:

Newly refreshed 10mm Giles pump and injectors
Coated ceramic KS pistons .5mm over
Balanced rotating assembly, pulley to clutch, and IM shaft
T3 hybrid turbo, Vw hot side Merc 45 trim cold side didn't work, updated to holset HE221W - hx27
Hydro 1.6 head converted to mechanical valves
Oversized face stainless 7mm valves and differnt springs to keep the intakes from blowing open
Ported head to increase flow and lower EGT...I hope. Flow chart to be posted when done.
There will be some very custom mods I will do to the head, but I will not give up the info until I know it works  ;)


I hope to be starting assembly next week, the bottom end anyway. I will update it as I can. Don't know what color it will be but I know I won't do anything black again...WAY too hard to see oil leaks. I want this one to be even more fun, but much more reliable.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on July 19, 2012, 02:04:19 am
Hydro 1.6 head converted to mechanical valves
Oversized face stainless 7mm valves and differnt springs to keep the intakes from blowing open
Ported head to increase flow and lower EGT...I hope. Flow chart to be posted when done.
There will be some very custom mods I will do to the head, but I will not give up the info until I know it works  ;)

Interesting head you have planned!

Why are you converting to mech. valves?

Air Cooled Engines Plus that is doing the work on the head?

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 19, 2012, 08:09:40 am
Green...hmm.

Mech valves are better in my opinion, quieter too. I started telling John at air cooled what to do, then asked "you don't think I should run hydro valvetrain though, do you?" He started shaking his head violently and saying "no,no,no, you don't want that at all. You are right in your thinking on the mech valve."  So it was nice to have my ideas confirmed and have a machinist that actually agrees with me. Many reasons, but mostly personal preference. Some non personal preferance is less oil pressure to run them, not easily collapsed, won't stick, more bottom end snap, maybe a hp or 2 more total power < mech valve that is.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 19, 2012, 08:10:40 am
i say ford blue... this way when/if it breaks you can say the problem is circled... :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: flowmastergfunk on July 19, 2012, 08:33:17 am
I am excited to see this build! I hope to learn much from you about your interesting headwork!  I feel spoiled with a hydro head never having to do a valve adjustment. I will dabble into that soon enough. Now that I am about done with my build, I am already itching to start another ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on July 19, 2012, 04:19:40 pm
i say ford blue... this way when/if it breaks you can say the problem is circled... :D

every engine i paint ford blue, ends up being basically bullet proof..

the ONLY engines i have ever damaged, are not blue..

thats why i make it a point to TRY and have atleast a FEW ford blue parts on every VW..

my GTI doesnt have any ford blue, but it has ford parts, so thats close enough..

people think im kidding when i tell them to paint it ford blue, but im 100% serious..

ford blue is a VERY lucky color for me.. i started using ford blue, and the engines started lasting longer..
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: rs899 on July 19, 2012, 06:38:57 pm
Whatever floats your boat..

Weren't they originally green?  Do we really need to use "engine paint"  - they really don't seem to get very hot like gassers...?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on July 19, 2012, 07:08:08 pm
Whatever floats your boat..

Weren't they originally green?  Do we really need to use "engine paint"  - they really don't seem to get very hot like gassers...?

I dunno man, flash point of diesel lies between 110°F, and 160°F. Other wise, here's a quote from Britannica.com:

"The diesel engine gains its energy by burning fuel injected or sprayed into the compressed, hot air charge within the cylinder The air must be heated to a temperature greater than the temperature at which the injected fuel can ignite. Fuel sprayed into air that has a temperature higher than the "auto-ignition" temperature of the fuel spontaneously reacts with the oxygen in the air and burns. Air temperatures are typically in excess of 526°C (978.8°F); however, at engine start-up, supplemental heating of the cylinders is usually required, since the temperature of the air within the cylinders is determined by both the engine's compression ratio and its current operating temperature."
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: camboscams on July 19, 2012, 07:27:23 pm
Alpine green is where its at... 8) (also known as Detroit Diesel green)

Very interested in this build as well! Looking forward to seeing it come together

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/camboscams/02-04-09_1716.jpg)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on July 19, 2012, 08:46:08 pm
Whatever floats your boat..

Weren't they originally green?  Do we really need to use "engine paint"  - they really don't seem to get very hot like gassers...?

my last engine build (wasnt my engine, otherwise i would have used blue) i used regular gloss grey paint.. didnt bubble, or peel.. turned out nice, plus, it was FREE.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 19, 2012, 09:47:49 pm
I sell paint. The engine paint I have is good to 350F and the direct to metal paint that is in just about any color is good to 300F. So I will never get the block close to that hot I can use either. Color not so much a huge deal. I might actually go with Cat yellow or Cummins beige as this one will sound quite a bit different than the last one I am sure.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on July 20, 2012, 12:48:22 am
I sell paint. The engine paint I have is good to 350F and the direct to metal paint that is in just about any color is good to 300F. So I will never get the block close to that hot I can use either. Color not so much a huge deal. I might actually go with Cat yellow or Cummins beige as this one will sound quite a bit different than the last one I am sure.

why not go for blue or green like stock?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 20, 2012, 08:22:46 am
Just something different as this really isn't stock, I like the idea of the JD green. Even though I own 3 fords, I have never been a ford guy so I don't think I could do it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on July 20, 2012, 03:02:40 pm
I've heard other people comment on the difficulty of isolating oil leaks with black engines but I've painted my last 4 engines gloss black and haven't had any issues tracing leaks to their source.    It's always been easy for me to see where the dust is wet vs. dry. 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on July 21, 2012, 12:17:33 am
I went with black on the first rebuild I did. Couldn't see squat with the black block....very annoying.
The thing about the JD green (real JD paint) is that is lightens in color after some heat cycles and ends up being about the same green as the original block from sauerkrautland.

The cummins beige is cool on a larger engine....not sure how it would look on these little minies.

Right now I've got two very nice cars in storage in the potential path of a runaway forest fire out here. Might have to be hauling buutt if this does not improve. It is the Eco and the GTI. Search: Myrtle fire.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on July 21, 2012, 09:33:37 am
jessusss. GET THE CARS OUTTA THERE! Or make sure you have hefty insurance coverage :)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on July 21, 2012, 01:38:29 pm
I've heard other people comment on the difficulty of isolating oil leaks with black engines but I've painted my last 4 engines gloss black and haven't had any issues tracing leaks to their source.    It's always been easy for me to see where the dust is wet vs. dry. 

gray is THE SHIZZ for finding oil leaks.. the 1.5 i built, was gray, and showed every leak. i LOVED it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 23, 2012, 10:03:31 am
I currently have 2 cans of John Deere green in my shed that I didn't know I had. So I think I have found my paint color...unless I have some others that I don't know I still have.

I cannot wait as the machinist should have me the block this week 7-25-12* and I will start going after it. I still have the taps to do all the holes. It is like waiting to open presents.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 22, 2012, 09:16:49 pm
I had a huge thing typed up. Now I am pissed as it wouldn't upload correctly and wouldn't let me post it. So short version...
I recieved enough stuff to work on the block more today. Pistons look funny as they are coated with the good stuff. Everything was balanced to 1 gram and the rods all weigh the same. Block is screaming "Billybob loved Charlene." Which when it mates to the Allis Chalmers color trans I hope to have one hell of a bastard child VW.

I will not get the head for at least 2 weeks, but I cannot wait to post the flow bench numbers. It will be exciting.
(http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/151/baeea0ea4151494583f1aea1b86f2ef0/l.jpg)
(http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/140/c5fe1e0ec06c4055983aefcee47b28b5/l.jpg)
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/60/b9150778c252467a9198e5b961e64651/l.jpg)
(http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/153/c0c9334ccb0e45c09e52305f193ed50d/l.jpg)
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/60/5d4f5c6bee87439a897b7606f02bb8ec/l.jpg)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 22, 2012, 10:18:14 pm
goddamn, that there motur sure does look puuurdddy!

How'd I do? Could I fit in down there in Holmes County?! lol I wish I could do a tear down and paint. Sucks modifying your daily! lol
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on August 23, 2012, 01:45:19 am
Homer Simpson: "....vanilla pissstonnns.....aaaaawwwwwggggghhhhh (drooling sounds)..........

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 23, 2012, 08:52:05 am
goddamn, that there motur sure does look puuurdddy!

How'd I do? Could I fit in down there in Holmes County?! lol I wish I could do a tear down and paint. Sucks modifying your daily! lol
I think you'd be ok, you have such a purdy mouth that eventhough you probably say aboat, they would love you here, lol.

The solution would be buy another car. Then tear down something and play. Which, don't you have 5 or more of these cars or is that the extended family?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 23, 2012, 08:53:38 am
I have 5 daily vw's in my drive right now.. but only one is mine :( lol but sure.. I have to work on them!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 23, 2012, 09:01:10 am
I started this with less money, but really wanted something better. Luckily, the machinist has a soft spot for old VW's as this is going to be just a fuzz cheaper than my last build or right at the same. I have a lot of reusable stuff, I think it was less than 50.00 per piston to coat them with both coatings. I will have the stuff together as soon as I check the ring gaps. The machinist said that he went 10 years with no issues with ring end gaps being off. Now sadly he says that it is just about every other box. Mine came with the KS pistons so I am hoping that they did a good job. I can't remember what the spec is, but from 3 years ago I am thinking it was somewhere between .015" and .020" for those rings.

Now that I know the head is not going to be done soon I may build that intake before it is done. All depends on how much wood I get split in between now and then. The good news is I have my sausage stuffing tubes ready to go for it :)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 23, 2012, 12:29:43 pm
Hmm when I pulled the pistons from my engine I cracked the head on, the cylinder that had been getting water had .030 gap in the top ring, the thickness of a credit card.

Get this thing together man, u are the man right, can't wait to see ur intake and ur sausage funnel, let's see that sausage funnel
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 23, 2012, 08:41:48 pm
Well I only measured 2 rings and one was in spec at .016" and one was out at .021". Bentley said spec is .014"-.018" 5/8" down the bore. I don't know what to do yet so I gave up for this evening.

I will post pics of the stuffing tubes soon.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 23, 2012, 09:32:23 pm
Here is the idea. I have been reading like an intake builder wanna be and asking the machinist with a flow bench how not to mess this up. From what I gathered, at the end of the day, whatever I do will be better than the stock intake. So goal #1 accomplished in that. Goal 2 is to do this cheaply and so far I have about 30 in the intake, 30 in the aluminum tubing, and 40 in the sausage funnels. One funnel from a speed shop was going to be around 30 here, I am ahead of the game so far. Goal 3 was accomplished in that I found the sausage funnels that had a good taper #22 and 3/4" IIRC and will pack more air in each runner and not bias it badly.

The design is to cut the funnels down on the OD to just clear the ID of the big pipe *plenum*. It only has to clear .125" or more and 2 and 3 will be cut some more as they will be close enough to hit. I'll cut the plenum in 1/2. Then the plenum will have the 4 holes cut so the runners can come through with the sausage funnels on top of them and weld the plenum back up. The bottom of the sausage funnels will be cut off to fit the aluminum tube and all sanded to promote flow. The plenum volume is 1/2 the engine displacement so roughly .8L. The runners will be either 8.25" or 9" I have some more math to do on the harmonic of it, but fairly long. That is the added benefit of putting the sausage funnels into the pipe, I won't have hood issues that way. The runners will attach to the cut up stock intake manifold ports for the first 1.5" or so. The sausage funnels will not actually be a structural piece, but just welded to the runners and the runners to the plenum.

Here are some pics. On the bottom just imagine the sausage funnels with the OD cut and inside that plenum tube instead of under it...
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/154/5180e29804694a2c84443095fdd96bb6/l.jpg)
You can see there is a good taper in these sausage funnels.
(http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/153/4e700c69fc764ebe93f6722eacf198b4/l.jpg)
(http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/139/609588156d02437da02586e382d10158/l.jpg)
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/153/5c705fdb3e05444cbebf656ba40d6a0d/l.jpg)
Lastly with the tube on.
(http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/154/fd5f3ac8dc174e83a39db731c045989c/l.jpg)

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: bajacalal on August 24, 2012, 02:42:25 am
I think the John Deere green is about the closest color you can get to the stock VW diesel engine blocks without having a custom color mixed.

Anyone ever notice that the gasser blocks were not green?

Anyway, I like to paint engines black to hide oil leaks!!!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: keaton on August 24, 2012, 03:47:23 am
I know its not quite what your going for, but maybe this can help spur some ideas...
on the velocity stacks the curvature should be equal to the radius to the pipe diameter.. (according to the FSAE book/white paper)

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/1.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/2-1.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/3-1.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/4.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/5.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/5.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/7.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/8.jpg)

here is without the little fins..runners spacing was not adjusted for the VW heads
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/top.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/back.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/3.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/keatonstanley/junk/2.jpg)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: nathantheengineer on August 24, 2012, 08:22:32 am
That is nicely modelled, with the CFD, did you simply put the airflow onto the inlet and let it work itself out regarding the passing over the fins or did you stipulate that the air had to flow equally over the fins?

I only ask because if you simply told the system that there was an airflow at the inlet on both then it proves categorically that the fins are required.

Cheers

nathan 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 24, 2012, 08:54:04 am
There is quite a bit on this that I didn't write about, like that radius, as I really don't know about it. BUT the machinist with the flow bench does. That is a Dual plenum design mine will be single. I don't know if the pipe will be tapered or not to feed. My machinist with the flow bench is getting back to me on that, but he seems to think with the sausage funnels in the middle of the pipe it will not be as big of a deal as the air will have to turn to head down. Also, the intake valves close, which changes flow and is the reason for the specific length runners. He has a neat little thing that he can shoot die into the air and watch it with camera to see what it is doing. Like I said, I am a "wanna be" intake builder not a real one, but with the info I have I will have an intake that will provide better air than stock.

The biggest deal with performance from what the machinist tells me is Velocity. Flow is OK, but if you can get the air moving really fast into the cylinder to fill it, when the piston starts up, the cylinder will still be filling with air. IF you have good velocity with the incoming air charge. To open the head ports bigger is not a good goal, but shaping them so the air doesn't slow down or have to turn much is great. That is the idea with this intake, the air will only turn 2 times Also, the .8L displacement of the plenum is 1/2 the engine volume. From his many times around the intake making he has found that 1/2 the engine displacement will give the best throttle response with almost no negative affect to high rpm flow...especially on a small diesel that doesn't rev to 8,000rpm. Larger creates more "lag" and smaller it will starve the engine on the higher RPMs.
I will have it done sometime, but I maybe running the engine with the stock intake for a bit. Since you have that flow program, do you know what length the runner should end up. My machinist hasn't told me yet, but said he thought it was 9" from another he built before...there is a harmonic in the air flow and I am trying to find it for more low RPM. The gasser intakes and the D24 runners measure pretty much exactly 8" at the centerline, but I am not going to be running as much rpm and want more bottom end. If you know that would be great
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on August 24, 2012, 09:12:01 am
I wish you luck on your intake project - very interesting points on velocity. I am working on a possible WAIC myself using two of  these puppies inside a custom mani:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laminova-Intercooler-Core-Supercharger-Turbocharger-/110440473049#ht_702wt_1139 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laminova-Intercooler-Core-Supercharger-Turbocharger-/110440473049#ht_702wt_1139) Info on application is here :http://www.laminova.se/cooler-guide/intercooler/ (http://www.laminova.se/cooler-guide/intercooler/).
Any thoughts?
BTW, make sure you keep the diesel fuel clear of your welding heat ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: keaton on August 24, 2012, 05:36:30 pm
That is nicely modelled, with the CFD, did you simply put the airflow onto the inlet and let it work itself out regarding the passing over the fins or did you stipulate that the air had to flow equally over the fins?

I only ask because if you simply told the system that there was an airflow at the inlet on both then it proves categorically that the fins are required.

Cheers

nathan 
when I originally started playing with this design I was only concerned with even flow. I could change the runner length and diameter to pick peak Tq.
that CFD calculations are a far cry from accurate IMO. I still need to learn how to tell the program how the valves open and close (in order). that CFD is calculating 60lbs/min, ~2bar @ 100F

There is quite a bit on this that I didn't write about, like that radius, as I really don't know about it. BUT the machinist with the flow bench does. That is a Dual plenum design mine will be single. I don't know if the pipe will be tapered or not to feed. My machinist with the flow bench is getting back to me on that, but he seems to think with the sausage funnels in the middle of the pipe it will not be as big of a deal as the air will have to turn to head down. Also, the intake valves close, which changes flow and is the reason for the specific length runners. He has a neat little thing that he can shoot die into the air and watch it with camera to see what it is doing. Like I said, I am a "wanna be" intake builder not a real one, but with the info I have I will have an intake that will provide better air than stock.

The biggest deal with performance from what the machinist tells me is Velocity. Flow is OK, but if you can get the air moving really fast into the cylinder to fill it, when the piston starts up, the cylinder will still be filling with air. IF you have good velocity with the incoming air charge. To open the head ports bigger is not a good goal, but shaping them so the air doesn't slow down or have to turn much is great. That is the idea with this intake, the air will only turn 2 times Also, the .8L displacement of the plenum is 1/2 the engine volume. From his many times around the intake making he has found that 1/2 the engine displacement will give the best throttle response with almost no negative affect to high rpm flow...especially on a small diesel that doesn't rev to 8,000rpm. Larger creates more "lag" and smaller it will starve the engine on the higher RPMs.
I will have it done sometime, but I maybe running the engine with the stock intake for a bit. Since you have that flow program, do you know what length the runner should end up. My machinist hasn't told me yet, but said he thought it was 9" from another he built before...there is a harmonic in the air flow and I am trying to find it for more low RPM. The gasser intakes and the D24 runners measure pretty much exactly 8" at the centerline, but I am not going to be running as much rpm and want more bottom end. If you know that would be great
I would have to look up the runner length for you, its been a while. i know you want about ~3.5degree tapper from Velocity stack to valve.
off the top of my head: 85,000 / tuned rpm = runner length (1st harmonic iirc)

again i need to find my book and look it up, also got some FSAE cod to look through as well....
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 25, 2012, 08:23:33 am
BTW...The JD Green block is NOT an MF engine code. This is one of the 4 engines I got from Canada 2 years ago this Dec. It is a CY engine code. I have not really found it before, but I do know it has squirters *installed with sealant already* and it is a therefore a TD block I am assuming. I friend of mine said it could have been a Canada only thing. I know it came from an MK1 as it had the MK1 pass. engine bracket on it. I was thinking maybe a Vanagon or something like that, but I don't think those were ever TD engines?
If you guys know where or what it is let me know, thanks ><>
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 25, 2012, 08:32:00 am
Just got an update from the machinist. He said the .021" is for the bottom compression ring and it is OK. Not ideal but won't hurt anything. The lower compression ring is supposed to be more open than the top. That way when the gasses pass by the first ring the second ring it will leak by faster and not unload the first ring. He called it "flutter" if you have that issue.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: justiz00 on August 25, 2012, 08:37:23 am
The CY I have is originally from an 83 Jetta TD. That may be your source also.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on August 25, 2012, 11:05:37 am
All the 1.6TD Quantums and Audis got CY motors.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 25, 2012, 01:46:53 pm
Cy. Was the mkI and quantum engine code
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 31, 2012, 09:13:15 pm
(http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/142/d032d0a520dc44b980f35556cc275de5/l.jpg)

The coated pistons nestled in there bores, were in the hopes head would soon be there. --Didn't realize I got such a good pic of my left hand too--

I have some more stuff to go, bolting on the crank gear, IP, TB cover backing plate, oil pump, and water pump...but that is it. My head is still not done, so it won't run for a while.
 
I still need to get the runner length and make my intake. I am going to throw an old head gasket and my AAZ head on and then mock up the intake, but until then I am done for a bit.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 12, 2012, 11:55:13 pm
Iv'e read about the piston coatings from several of your posts and visited the website as well. Do you think they can coat a piston that is scored a bit and "bring it back to life"?

My stock pistons are all in pretty good shape as are my bores and I'm having a tough time finding new ones at a decent price. Just curious as to your thoughts.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 13, 2012, 09:30:39 pm
No idea, I would contact them and ask as they are the ones that know that stuff.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 16, 2012, 09:44:13 pm
Well, I still have no head and no further progress on the intake as far as building it goes. I have been adding a room to the basement for my oldest and adding 22x15 to my shed that house the VW diesel engines I have now. I will hook in the air compressor and add a bunch of shelves in the shed. So I really wouldn't have much of an update if the head were here. I am trying to get the building done by the end of the week.

I figured out the length of the intake runners from the vavle head to the end of the runner for peak torque at 3200 rpm should be 11.45" long. I need to measure how far it is from the valve head to the flange of the intake and see if it is possible, as I can only have about 10.4" from the bolt holes to the top of the plenum. I am recessing it into the plenum, but only about an inch. It will be fun, as long as it is around 2" from that vavle head to the flange all will be good, if I can make it a pinch longer I maybe able to make the torque a little lower in the RPMs. I will let you all know as soon as I get it welded and I will take pics.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 19, 2012, 09:42:06 am
I need some info. I need the measurement in a cylinder head. Ideally, from the top of the head of a closed valve to the closest/bottom part of the mating surface of the head and intake manifold. It doesn't have to be perfect or to the .001" to the nearest 1/8" would be fine. I would like it from the valve stem part closest to the mating surface. I would prefer a hydro head casting measurement but I definately need a 1.6 measured. I have an AAZ head and it measures approx 3" but I want to be sure the 1.6 hydro is the same or similar. I need this as the last piece to the intake #s so I can have the pieces cut for welding.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 20, 2012, 11:33:57 am
let me know if you want solid lifter measurements, i have one sitting on my basement floor.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 20, 2012, 09:46:11 pm
Yeah, since I haven't recieved any response on the Hydro, measure it up. If the mech is about 3" from the valve stem closed valve to the mating surface of the head and intake them I know 2 of 3 and that will be good enough for what I am doing.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 22, 2012, 09:32:18 pm
I worked on the intake today and have it basically ready to weld. I am just going to stuff 10" of tube above the bolt holes and recess it into the plenum 1.5" or so. Should fit under the hood.

Now I also measured piston protrusion and found that the tallest piston is #3 with .026" the rest measure .019" ... what do I do? should I take it back to the machinist and have him deck the block more? The reason I ask is .026 is the smallest for a 1 notch and the .019 is .007" smaller. This is real similar to what I had before and I always had a bit of white smoke. What to do, what to do???
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on September 22, 2012, 10:32:34 pm
Get the block decked more, and while there (if you want) see if you can get 0.007" shaved off that piston without creating massive imbalance.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 22, 2012, 10:41:28 pm
I cannot cut the piston as it has a coating on it now. Also, I need all of them to stick up more not less, as the 1 is the lowest number of the thickness spec for 1 notch and the other 3 are way under.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 23, 2012, 09:37:31 am
If I was you, I'd deck the block and get the big end resized on the rod from the cylinder with the most protrusion, make sure the machinest knows what you're trying to do so they take the right Mount of metal off the right side of the rod I guess they have to take .007 off the end caps mating surface then rebore the big end with it cutting towards the small end, that oughta do it. Then deck the block .007 add marinara sauce and enjoy.  I think thats probably the only proper way to do it
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 23, 2012, 09:38:50 am
U still need measurements? I forgot about u call me if so
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 23, 2012, 10:02:52 am
And actually I guess it doesn't matter which side of the rod they take the .007 from as long as when they bore the circle it cuts towards the small end
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 23, 2012, 10:04:21 am
I still need that measurement, so yeah let me know.

I am not too worried about the .007" I am thinking if I have it milled then I would have it cut so that the the one sticking up the most would be at the high end of a one notch and the others would be more at the low. Actually, they would be .002" lower than the lowest .026" number. I may look into the other 2 and 3 notch and see if they would have a better range. I also have 3 other rods that I could have balanced and matched to the #3 in the car to see if they would bring it up some. I just don't know how big of a deal it is for them to be so low in the protrusion #s. Will the short ones light the diesel correctly or not? Should I even worry? I had the same deal on my last engine only all were short of the 1 notch numbers, not this much, and it always had a white haze if you looked real close...even after an hour drive in the summer it still had it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on September 23, 2012, 10:07:41 am
Did you have your rods re-worked?  I would try swapping pistons between that single higher one and one of the shorter rods.  Sometimes a slight height discrepancy in piston and rod can add up.  Swapping parts can result in a happy medium.  The stock rods have the length stamped in the cap.  They should all match, but to fix that height discrepancy you could swap the one rod for one that is shorter.  I don't mind a little piston height discrepancy, but I want them all to fit within the spec for a single gasket thickness.  If you shaved the .007 off the deck they would all just barely fit within the spec for a 1-notch.  
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 23, 2012, 10:28:56 am
I am just thinking since u have performance in mind that matching them would be a good idea, and it sounds like ur going to the machine shop either way, having 1 rod resized can not cost very much
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 23, 2012, 02:00:04 pm
1,2, and 4 are right at .019"-.020"
3 is at .026"
So if I took off .005" from the deck, the new numbers would be .031" for #3 and ..025" .024" which would get close to the correct bottom number and right at the top of the top number for 1 notch mechanical.

I was just worried about the .019" being enough for 1 notch. As I could assemble it as is...If it is enough.



EDIT: to answer libby, I did have the rods reworked. #3 is from this engine the rest are from the old one.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on September 23, 2012, 05:20:06 pm

EDIT: to answer libby, I did have the rods reworked. #3 is from this engine the rest are from the old one.

Well that explains why #3 is higher.  Did you check the end balance on all the rods?  Wouldn't want #3's big end to have more/less and have the engine eat a main bearing due to imbalance!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 23, 2012, 07:35:36 pm
I just think if ur going to spend the money and take the time to deck it, why not spend the extra 20 bucks and get it sized to match and then feel real good about it
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 23, 2012, 08:03:12 pm
Rods were shot blasted, balanced, and weight matched to +- 1 gram.

I will see what is going on before taking it back, does anyone have a definative answer on how short the pistons can be and still do OK?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on September 23, 2012, 08:24:09 pm
Nope,no answer.sorry :(
but yes that sounds like 3 is the oddball...
cantcha scare up a complete set of rods from another engine,or yea,get em remachined so u at least get the same protrusion on all,or close.
you could try swappon pistons around,but rod 3 sounds like the odd man out
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 08, 2012, 11:50:40 am
I am just going to go with the 1 notch and say screw it. .005" under will be less than .5 of compression, I was just worried about "quench" and how it would work. I will find out and I am sure it won't be too bad.

Now the question I have is. I have a hydro head and a mech block. I know how to plug off the hole in the MLS gasket to run it, but will I need to? I am going to have the extra hole in the hydro head welded shut. I have no cylinder heads here to get my head around it, so do I need to still plug that gasket or is it ok? I cannot remember how it works right now.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 08, 2012, 12:34:01 pm
lay the gasket on the block, you will need to plug a coolant passage or else the opening for the extra drain will let coolant spill out the front of the block.  it shaped almost like a triangle  but i bet there is enough meat there to drill it out to a circle and tap it with pipe thread and run a plug into it.  then do a burn out.  but if you lay the gasket on the block you will see what needs done.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: justiz00 on October 08, 2012, 12:50:05 pm
I plan on following in the foot steps of this thread when I get to that point. 1.9 hydro on 1.6 mech block. And hydro to solid conversion 2 different ways.

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15780.0
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 08, 2012, 06:18:49 pm
Thanks Trevor. I do have the old 1.9 gasket and block, I am just out of cylinder heads right now. Now that you reminded me I think I remember...There is an oil passage and a water passage. That is what I couldn't remember. I was just remembering the oil return. I guess I will just have to use the teflon joint sealant tape like I did last time and didn't have an issue for 40,000 miles.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 08, 2012, 07:47:27 pm
Take it for what it is:a sloppy measurement.  But I used a twizzler and I stuffed down in there and kept it positioned at the center line of the port I got about 3.5 inches everytime I rechecked on each port, and honestly if it was measured straight down where the stem is that would give you another quarter inch I'd bet.  Also the twizzler worked pretty well haha
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 08, 2012, 08:55:08 pm
Holy cow. I was expecting less than 3". Good news I may have good torque way less than 3,000 rpm.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 08, 2012, 09:11:44 pm
I can believe it too because when I looked at my aaz head which has been months haha the intake ports go more straight downto the valve where the 1.6 head is more curved and a bit of a harsher bend into the valve seat
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 10, 2012, 06:46:46 pm
Pics coming later tonight of the 1/2 welded intake manifold. I need to clean up the welds and send it back so he can put it back together.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/tuned%20intake/DSC05365_zps9b94b91c.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/tuned%20intake/DSC05365_zps9b94b91c.jpg.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/tuned%20intake/DSC05368_zps596d50c5.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/tuned%20intake/DSC05368_zps596d50c5.jpg.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/tuned%20intake/DSC05367_zps1448bbdb.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/tuned%20intake/DSC05367_zps1448bbdb.jpg.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/tuned%20intake/DSC05366_zps2f768662.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/tuned%20intake/DSC05366_zps2f768662.jpg.html)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: TurboJ on October 11, 2012, 07:02:52 pm
Nice!  :)

That kind of inlet should make things flow a bit!
How's the hood clearance with that, BTW?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 11, 2012, 07:46:53 pm
I think the John Deere green is about the closest color you can get to the stock VW diesel engine blocks without having a custom color mixed.

Anyone ever notice that the gasser blocks were not green?

Anyway, I like to paint engines black to hide oil leaks!!!

the 1.6 diesels were GREEN

the 1.5 diesels were BLUE (least all that i have own and seen)

the gassers were generally not painted at all.. the ones that were painted, were black..

myself personally, i really liked my machine gray engine the best.. it showed oil/coolant leaks like no other, and it was actually quite easy to keep it clean.. i liked it better than black for sure..

Alpine Green is my favorite color to do VW diesels in tho.. hands down..

gives you +20whp as well, just from the paint!!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 11, 2012, 09:59:12 pm
Nice!  :)

That kind of inlet should make things flow a bit!
How's the hood clearance with that, BTW?

I should have about 1/2" of clearance. I figured I had 11" from the intake bolts up with ROR figures and I bolted an aaz head to old blown block and kinda measured the best I could. I measured to the strut tower brace and I had 11" to the bottom of it...and the intake will be behind it some and the further back it goes the more the hood slopes up. It should be right at 10.5" or less. The runners above the cast piece are 8.25", but I recessed them about an 1" into the plenum, but the plenum is higher.

Short answer is I hope it fits.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 11, 2012, 10:17:55 pm
All guestimations point to it fitting eh haha
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 11, 2012, 10:52:05 pm
All guestimations point to it fitting eh haha

Yes, it will. One way or another...I will either beat it down or cut it back up and have it rewelded.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on October 14, 2012, 12:49:13 pm




I think the John Deere green is about the closest color you can get to the stock VW diesel engine blocks without having a custom color mixed.

Anyone ever notice that the gasser blocks were not green?

Anyway, I like to paint engines black to hide oil leaks!!!

the 1.6 diesels were GREEN

the 1.5 diesels were BLUE (least all that i have own and seen)

the gassers were generally not painted at all.. the ones that were painted, were black..

myself personally, i really liked my machine gray engine the best.. it showed oil/coolant leaks like no other, and it was actually quite easy to keep it clean.. i liked it better than black for sure..









The green color closely resembles the detroit diesel 2 stroke green imo
sort of a 50s seafoam green or somethin...nice bright stylish color methinks
Alpine Green is my favorite color to do VW diesels in tho.. hands down..

gives you +20whp as well, just from the paint!!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on October 14, 2012, 12:52:50 pm
Osha green is a close match too..we use that at my shop,i think krylon makes it,but its normal paint,not engine paint
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 17, 2012, 08:20:16 pm
Well got it back and it is all welded. Of course it is going to be close, but we will see. I ended up trading him some 3m supplies and 3 cupstones that I got for free for all the tig welding he did. Not bad I don't believe, what do you think?
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/tuned%20intake/DSC05370_zps0d37953b.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/tuned%20intake/DSC05370_zps0d37953b.jpg.html)Oh yeah, I had him add a section to the T3 so it will hook up easier.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/tuned%20intake/DSC05369_zpsdc51d835.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/tuned%20intake/DSC05369_zpsdc51d835.jpg.html)(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/tuned%20intake/DSC05371_zps7d43105c.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/tuned%20intake/DSC05371_zps7d43105c.jpg.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/tuned%20intake/DSC05372_zps50e0917f.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/tuned%20intake/DSC05372_zps50e0917f.jpg.html)
Guess what, I can shut the hood with that guy...bad news is the cap on the end just hits that strut brace.



Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 17, 2012, 09:54:47 pm
Looks cool man, now where's that head?? Haha.  And not to be a butthole but u should get that rod resized it can't be that expensive, I am just weird like that and it bothers me
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Hoble on October 17, 2012, 10:10:54 pm
notch the strut brace!! haha

actually ive been told one of the fastest cars around my local track is a honda with no sway bars and no strut braces... just lets er swing. just an interesting factoid
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 18, 2012, 07:00:52 am
I will probably just cut the brace and weld it back a bit. It just hits a fuzz. My measurement was on the tube, but the tube needed capped. So the extra weld and cap is probably about 1/2" and that is about the interferrence I have. Also I had him angle the thing forward maybe a degree or so and if I would have left it at the 10 degree back I wouldn't have this issue. I had thought about bending it, but then I may end up hitting the compressor.

After going to all poly inserts and adding that strut brace this car handles better than most on the road, it is nuts.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: TurboJ on October 18, 2012, 07:58:59 am
Just make sure there is room enough also for the engine to move (twist) about. Cutting and re-welding the brace is what I would do.

That intake looks very good and it's nice to see a different design from what I've used to!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 18, 2012, 08:26:05 pm
Yeah it actually clears the hood very well and has room to move except for that strut brace. I may get another one, or cut and reweld this one. If I cut this one and reweld I may change the angle so that it comes in almost from the bend right where it hits so it will clear by 3" or so. I hope that it will not hit that brace rocking forward as it has several inches to get there. As long as I have good mounts I would think that it will never be an issue, but we will see.

Also if I cut and weld that brace I may make it so it is pinned and I can take it apart in a few seconds. Now as it is it is bolted to the strut towers and one side has to come off to access the vc, cam, or get the turbo out from the back over top.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 24, 2012, 07:16:45 pm
Well I may only have to heat the brace and beat it to death. I just went out and started cleaning up some of the ports on the intake and mocked it up with the turbo and the turbo didn't fit. It should have cleared by a couple inches. I got out the measurements and the guy shifted the intake a fuzz to the passenger side which made it all off...but the compressor housing didn't hit the #1 tube like it probably would have, but I am not telling him that. I will just take it up tomorrow and let him go to town on it again and see where it ends up now. All he needs to do is cut the plug end off and reweld it about 1/4" closer to the ports.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 25, 2012, 01:48:08 pm
What about the head
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 25, 2012, 01:50:10 pm
bring him a head, manifolds, turbo, and tell him to make it fit..

that end of the manifold, just dead heading it, makes for turbulance.. think the guy could use a spherical cap instead of a flat cap next time?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 25, 2012, 05:45:59 pm
The cylinder head...the last I saw was in Tiffin Ohio, but Dakotakid said he saw it on a milk carton...The machinist said he got the bandsaw fired up and is cutting up the old head. The guy welding the new head has his new house set up and is almost ready to weld, but I still do not have a cylinder head yet.

I did bring him all that to begin with, but some measurements were lacking on my part. I didn't think about a possible slant. I also did not think he was going to put a 1/2" plate on for the end cap. As long as it clears the turbo outlet I am fine. For the free price of welding I cannot complain too much. So with the no cost tig welding and the 20.00 in Aluminum tube and the 30.00 or so in sausage stuffers, all I will have is time and around 50.00 in this.

As far as the turbulance I do not know what will happen. I am just going off the calculations that I have. From what the calculations and the machinist say for forced induction it isn't really going to matter. It is more about the length of the runners and plenum volume. I did blow through it and was completely shocked at how little air was needed to make it to all the ports. But since only one intake valve will be open at a time it should scavenge the air very well. My only goals were to make it better than stock, lower the RPM the torque level is peak, and make sure it holds together. I may not have the best intake but I think I will succeed in my goals.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 25, 2012, 07:26:56 pm
I think lowering your peak torque to around 3k is a good plan it should help some what with turbo spool and to some what define your power band.  My understanding of it is that the peak torque is where the engine is working the most efficiently ie it is moving the most amount of air and making the most amount of power per combustion keep in mind I said per combustion.  Peak hp is where it actually is making the most amount of power with all the combined combustions which is why peak hp is generally at a higher rpm than torque.  The torque number isn't really a measurement of power
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 25, 2012, 08:02:49 pm
Yeah Trev0rbr, I think the length of the runners to the head are over 13" if you 3.25" measurement is as good as a twizzler gets. With all the calculating and figuring 4th harmonic it should actually be between 2500 and 3000. The lower the torque the better as that was the only thing lacking in my old 1.6, it just didn't go off the line that well. I guess if I can get a little more grunt faster it will be great. Just because it peaks around there doesn't mean it will be a lightswitch, it should climb rapidly off idle to peak at that point. I will be just fine with that...if the hillbilly calculations are accurate that is.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 25, 2012, 08:34:32 pm
I think with ur intake and turbo improvements and the crazy head word u should be in the 500hp region
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 25, 2012, 08:36:35 pm
I almost snotted laughing so hard.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on October 26, 2012, 02:15:32 am
Peak torque = when the turbo reaches max boost. To get peak torque earlier install a VNT turbo with vane control
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 26, 2012, 08:34:47 am
Peak torque = when the turbo reaches max boost. To get peak torque earlier install a VNT turbo with vane control
i guess i should have mentioned, in terms of a naturally aspirated engine, or one that would be under consistent boost from idle to red line(turbo efficiencys aside) the peak torque would theoretically be around 3000 or where ever he has calculated, but once you throw the boost curve and turbo efficiencies and w/e other factors in im sure the peak torque could be nearly anywhere.  I'm really interested in how this thing will run tho with that intake manifold and the 45 trim vw t3 hybrid, especially since we have seen the results from josh's 45 trim .48 powered caddy.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 26, 2012, 09:05:38 am
I understand the turbo will make a difference, but no matter what pressure the air is under it will still act like a sound wave in the runners. I don't understand it fully, but from what I gather the big factor is the camshaft duration and that the air is traveling at the speed of sound...so it acts like a big spring until the valve opens and at that point it will be forced into the cylinder. The little bit of reading I did I figure it will still be under 3,000rpm. If this spools like the k24 did I had 24 psi before 3,000, so the theory should still be on target. Even with no boost present I am hoping it performs like the N/A mechanical engines I had. The N/A manifolds had very long runners and seemed to do well right of idle, so if this just mimicks that I will be 100% satisfied and will call it a success.

I will not be butt hurt if it doesn't work 100% as planned. I did it for 50.00 and time, so I won't be out much. Plus it would be 10x easier to make a dual plenum that is shorter than this was to make. I am pretty sure it will be better than stock so that is worth it to me. If it for some reason is complete garbage I am just a cut off blade away from shortening the tubes and adding the 2nd plenum after capping the inlet. I would love to send this to someone with a dyno and have this tested vs other intakes and see what the comparison results are. Also then a real world driving senerio to see which design the butt dyno prefers.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 26, 2012, 10:01:32 am
It is good you won't be butt hurt because that effects the accuracy of a butt dyno
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on March 10, 2013, 11:35:58 pm
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/71958_10151569167581057_1465591601_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484839_10151569168781057_688300447_n.jpg)

This has been the the bag since December of 2011. So a touch over a year. I figured I should pull it out. It is the key to this build. I honestly don't know what is in it but there are some parts from the TDI I guess. I just told him to make it fuel so much I melt it down if I lose boost. He said OK  ;D

Some day I will have my head back and this will go together. I put in the heater core today, so most of the inside work is done. I will have heat too.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on April 15, 2013, 09:04:55 pm
Until its all together id make sweet love down by the fire with her.
I hope it has a nice fuel lope.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on April 15, 2013, 09:49:15 pm
I just hope it runs someday soon. I still need head.

I would like it to run good too. If I can light the new T3 hybrid that I have even 100 rpm earlier I will be happy. Which with the manifold I have I think it should work. I don't want it much sooner than that as I think I will have traction issues.

The inlet is too big for me to be making sweet love to her down by the fire, lol
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on April 15, 2013, 10:14:09 pm
(http://www.zoopedup.com/blogs/uploads/19379huge_turbo1.jpg)

We will find a way to spool it LOL
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: shwak23 on April 18, 2013, 04:48:55 pm
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/shwak23/20130329_005326_zps939f7503.jpg)

This is John Deere green. Seems pretty close to the stock color. I am over it. I like white now.

If you can, obv you should powdercoat everything you can. Painting things sucks.
And it all gets ruined in the end anyway.

Sent from Outer Space!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Toby on April 18, 2013, 06:18:33 pm
Did you ever get the manifold flowed? That 90* bend where the stock manifold flange meets the tubing looks highly restrictive.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on April 22, 2013, 08:36:30 am
No, I never got it flow tested. It is the stock 90*. It looks more restrictive than it is I am sure. I ported all the weld through out and it isn't an L it is more of a C shape to get the air in there. As stated earlier, I won't claim this is the 100% answer to all 8v vw diesels but  I know it will be better than stock. I took it all up to my machinist that does stuff like this and he said it should be great. It wasn't together so I didn't have him flow bench it, but he has designed and made similar with good results. I won't take it to get flow benched either as he has had my cylinder head for a year now and I don't want him to do anymore work without that being done...no more excuses of too much to do.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 01, 2013, 11:27:03 am
Talked to the machinist today. The head should be done by this weekend. Now I have to get ready. I ordered a smaller intercooler, for giggles and will probably be ordering a new radiator for more cooling. Also, I need a 2 pin 210mm flywheel if anyone has one that would be excellent, let me know. I also need to clean the surface rust off the deck surface, sucks, but what do you expect from a block that has been waiting for head since August.

I cannot wait to get it flow benched. Or running for that matter.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on May 01, 2013, 09:01:44 pm
It may be somewhere in this thread but I have to ask - why in the world has it taken so long to get the head done?
Just curious.

Can't wait to hear how the new manifold works out.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 01, 2013, 09:28:37 pm
There is a story about the head, but I am holding off on telling. It is not close to a stock head any longer. I asked if he could do what I wanted and he said sure. The more in depth we got the longer he stretched it out and I think he was wanting me to say forget it and just put it together. If it works I will let you guys know what is up, if it doesn't I will keep it to myself.

I will post the flow bench numbers when I get them, that should be impressive to the point that people will say that it isn't possible for a 1.6 head to flow that much.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on May 01, 2013, 10:15:18 pm
OK, starting to get it now. This what I really enjoy about this forum - many of you push the envelope and there's nothing like that feeling.

I hope it surpasses your expectations sir, you really have stuck to it.

. . one of my favorite posts to watch.

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on May 02, 2013, 10:00:37 pm
There is a story about the head, but I am holding off on telling. It is not close to a stock head any longer. I asked if he could do what I wanted and he said sure. The more in depth we got the longer he stretched it out and I think he was wanting me to say forget it and just put it together. If it works I will let you guys know what is up, if it doesn't I will keep it to myself.

I will post the flow bench numbers when I get them, that should be impressive to the point that people will say that it isn't possible for a 1.6 head to flow that much.

Even if it doesn't work, I think you should at least post something explaining why it didn't.  This way, we have evidence of what doesn't work with a particular setup; evidence of something working is just as good as evidence of something not working.  It might be a little macabre, but a failure might be better to discover the limit of the 1.6 head.

Not jinxing you, though. :)  it's about time the head was done!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 02, 2013, 10:47:28 pm
If so I will be very general, I won't go into detail as I want to have some sort of mystery to it. Either way I guess :D.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on May 03, 2013, 08:20:11 am
your secret is safe with us

http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/tornado/air-intakes/turbonator-super-charger/17725/ (http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/tornado/air-intakes/turbonator-super-charger/17725/)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 03, 2013, 08:22:10 am
Dang you. You weren't supposed to tell. See what texting you and Blake like a 14 year old girl gets me.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on May 03, 2013, 09:20:46 am
I'm not going to click it - I like suspense ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on May 03, 2013, 06:36:10 pm
HAHAHAHAHA oh wow, those things again!  They keep popping up like performance car herpes.  I remember this dude I knew getting one for his Explorer, and all I could do was not take him seriously anymore.  Shouldn't have when he said he was gonna hop up an Exploder.

And 'mystery' is what got those kids killed by that hockey mask-wearing dude at that summer camp in the 80's.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on May 03, 2013, 07:59:12 pm
I'm still not clickin - the scariest thing at camp was a fat girl that reeely liked me. I hid from her the whole two weeks.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 16, 2013, 06:00:27 pm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160931174141?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1311wt_1070

just bought that, hope to get this thing on the road soon. No flow chart for the head yet.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on May 16, 2013, 06:05:07 pm
Lookin' good; got a deadline, or just an amorphous ASAP time?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 16, 2013, 06:58:52 pm
Pre July 31st. Actually, before that as I don't want to get too close to the due date. Ideally asap, but that could mean next year if I don't have a date.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on May 19, 2013, 03:54:15 pm
You say you dont have a date?
Lemme help ya out, i found ya one ;)

(http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii563/hillfolkvwdude/null-12.jpg)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on May 27, 2013, 12:57:47 pm
Let us know how that douche-bottle hone works out. THAT is your secret, right?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 27, 2013, 05:27:40 pm
Yepper sir Char. Dingle berry hones are way too nasty sounding.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on May 27, 2013, 09:54:06 pm
Thena geta yourselfa some total seal quick seat when you assemble it for the bores.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 27, 2013, 10:56:23 pm
where do you buy it? I would be down for some as long as it isn't expensive. I didn't get to finish it with the bounce house all weekend and CRSMP5 coming down and the MKIV timing belt deal. Can't wait until I get it done.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on May 28, 2013, 12:51:58 am
Thena geta yourselfa some total seal quick seat when you assemble it for the bores.

Can you clarify?
Some magic potion for seating rings?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 28, 2013, 11:16:05 am
Yes, total seal makes it but every machinist I talk to has no idea where to get it. I haven't checked ebay yet, so if it isn't there then it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 410 on May 28, 2013, 11:23:13 am
Jegs sells it.  It's about $20.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on May 28, 2013, 04:32:58 pm
Or direct from total seal. Get that oil they have too, they say lube the ring lands with it. But like 1 drop is enough for a piston.  Have fun gettin your hand in the bore to clean it too haha.
Yea th stuff looks like pencil lead shavings but when the bore is totally spotless itll have a greenish tinge to it
It was a total non issue seating the rings.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on May 28, 2013, 04:34:26 pm
Shoot i got some quick seat u cant find a source ill send u mine. Theres probably enough in there to do 5 or 6 engines.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 28, 2013, 06:28:36 pm
send away kinghillfolk'r. I need me some powder. I will text the address to you.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 28, 2013, 06:30:02 pm
BTW if you ever saw my hands you know that getting an entire hand in the bore is completely out of the question. I would love  to get 4 fingers deep into the bore, but usually 2 is all that is happening.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on May 28, 2013, 10:07:09 pm
Im no that big but i still had an issue. I ended up using a cloth taped to a stick to put it on
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on May 28, 2013, 11:20:42 pm
Funny,
both of you chose avatars that are the exact opposite of what you really look like. ;D

Justin B could easily get his hand into a 1.6 barrel
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on May 29, 2013, 04:44:28 pm
June can use her skin flap on her arm :)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on May 29, 2013, 09:35:32 pm
where do you buy it? I would be down for some as long as it isn't expensive. I didn't get to finish it with the bounce house all weekend and CRSMP5 coming down and the MKIV timing belt deal. Can't wait until I get it done.

Glad to hear you finally got that damn timing belt done.  Hope the intake helped a lot; you block off the EGR tube also?

An as far as that TS quick-seat, is in only for their rings, or for any rings in general like the OE KSs?  If it's a general applicant, then that just might get me together in time for Madness after all.  Just thinking about all the interstate between me and PA, and what it would do to a new ring break-in procedure having to sit at constant revs, does deter me.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 29, 2013, 09:51:34 pm
from what I gather it is for all rings. It is a lube that aids in ring seat. I am also using Brad Penn 10w-30 which has the highest concentration of Zinc in it of any off the shelf oil. That helps in breakin and on engines with pushrods, so for my break in it will work just fine.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on May 29, 2013, 10:40:29 pm
Oh crap, I forgot about Brad Penn!  Gotta get me some also; that stuff is what Jake Raby recommends for all his type 4 air-cooled engines due to it's high ZDDP content and resistance to high temps, a great plus for an air-cooled dependent on old-style dino oil.  I guess I'll be making a big Summit order soon; thanks for rattling that stuff off!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on June 08, 2013, 10:15:15 am
This is all you get. I am more interested in getting it handled than taking pics this time. I will try though.

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130515_133546_610_zps30665dd7.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130515_133546_610_zps30665dd7.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/2013-02-28_20-16-19_9_zps872bee23.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/2013-02-28_20-16-19_9_zps872bee23.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_194643_996_zpsbeba2ba1.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_194643_996_zpsbeba2ba1.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_185246_817_zps4e2802b2.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_185246_817_zps4e2802b2.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/2013-02-28_20-15-48_975_zps1364c0b3.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/2013-02-28_20-15-48_975_zps1364c0b3.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_223313_916_zps08503121.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_223313_916_zps08503121.jpg.html)

Need to figure out something to do with the oil cooler, but then I will test for leaks in the oil system. After no leaks are found I will take the turbo back off and fix the new intercooler in, then the new 2 row aluminum rad. Then sometime before too long put it in and run it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on June 08, 2013, 11:47:52 am
Looking reeel good.
When do we get to see your sausage stuffer intake?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on June 08, 2013, 11:56:42 am
where do you buy it? I would be down for some as long as it isn't expensive. I didn't get to finish it with the bounce house all weekend and CRSMP5 coming down and the MKIV timing belt deal. Can't wait until I get it done.

Glad to hear you finally got that damn timing belt done.  Hope the intake helped a lot; you block off the EGR tube also?

An as far as that TS quick-seat, is in only for their rings, or for any rings in general like the OE KSs?  If it's a general applicant, then that just might get me together in time for Madness after all.  Just thinking about all the interstate between me and PA, and what it would do to a new ring break-in procedure having to sit at constant revs, does deter me.


Yea quick seat is for any rings. As long as they are new.
Dude. If your rings dont seat in the first 5 minutes of runtime , start over they are never gonna seat.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on June 08, 2013, 01:15:15 pm
haha did you use old head bolts to put the block on the stand???  i did the same thing
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on June 18, 2013, 09:41:20 am
Yes, I did use the old head bolts to put it on the stand :D

I got the dip stick installed and the IP bracket installed last night. I will see if I can't get the thing timed and possibly set in this weekend. All depends how far I am and what the neighbor is doing.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on June 23, 2013, 04:42:17 pm
If I get back to work on the timing and my friend comes over I will sit the engine in the bay...I have had a super productive weekend but I am fizzling out right now.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on June 24, 2013, 05:23:52 pm
It's ok man it gives u a minute to stop and absorb what u did and u can review....make sure what you have done is right. Stand around and drink a beer. 
Just don't fizzle for 2-3 years like me on my 79. Seriously, if someone sees me out in public, feel free to walk up and boot me in the pants. I'll know why.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on June 24, 2013, 08:50:29 pm
My motivation on this has been OK. It took me 3 months to aquire 2 heads to take to the machinist. 13 months later he hands me one done. And here I am a month into it and almost ready to rock. I feel pretty good about it, but I have had tons to do besides the car. Ex. Saturday morning from 8:00am to 5:30pm I put trim into the oldest bedroom. Now it is done except for closet doors. Without that setback I would have it in the car now. Life keeps getting in the way.
Now even if it was in the car I wouldn't start it as I need to figure out a new battery situation
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on June 24, 2013, 10:46:06 pm
I wonder what a "fast" rebuild average would be (complete with rebuilt head, bore and hone, new pistons, rebuilt pump etc).
I am nearing a year but I don't do this for a living and mostly work on it weekends only.

I say as long as you don't stop progressing, that's fast enough ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: ORCoaster on June 24, 2013, 11:44:39 pm
theman53  man can I relate to that getting things done concept.  Seems like the car gets attention but it is the necessary fix to run it another week without an issue type of thing.  I had coolant leaking all the time and I finally yanked the WVO heat exchanger and am putting different fittings on it.  All four corners got shocks or struts as well.  But I took out the spacer in the rear hoping new shocks would be enough to raise that sagging butt.  Sorry, got to put them back next weekend. 

I have trim sitting on the table saw that needs to be sanded and put around the Master Bedroom door.  One light needs to be purchased, installed and wired up.  Then I can move downstairs and think about tearing up that part of the house to be entertained with all summer.  Good place to work in the summer.

No such thing as as a fast anything when it all gets done at the expense of one pocket book and one set of hands.  As long as I am not tearing it out week after week it is considered progress. 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on June 24, 2013, 11:45:18 pm
I really only have a couple days into this. That is if you add up the time I actually get to work on it. Even then most of the delay has been trying to find where I put something last. 1/2 of the parts from the car are in my garage, the rest are split between the car and the shed. It is nearing the point where most of the spare parts for the engine are used so I don't have much to look for now.

The other thing that took a day was I swapped IC to a 2" shorter one. Moved all the brackets so 100% of it was seeing air from the grill. Then got an aftermarket rad and had to get all that to fit. I think it will now.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 01, 2013, 10:51:24 am
So I waited until I could get the 2 pin flywheel, as I could have met up with him Saturday. When I went to get the wood burner in the morning it was almost 5 pm when I was done. When loading the wood burner onto the trailer the rear tire exploded and made my day :D So I met up with Chris Sunday, and then spent the day looking for my bolts that I never found the new ones. I timed the engine with the old PP to crank bolts, but cannot find the new ones. So now I wait for the new ones to get here. Will be here by Wednesday the 3rd for sure. The plan is to have this engine in and running this weekend. All that needs done is trans bolted on and engine dropped in/hooked up. Until life sets in and I find that I forgot to do something or am missing bolts again.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 04, 2013, 10:28:21 pm
With the 4th of July and family I didn't really get to do anything much today. Flushed the trans and added some oil to it. Here is where the engine sits. I still need to bolt the trans to it and put it in.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05696_zpsba288485.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05696_zpsba288485.jpg.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05698_zps4c4c7ab7.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05698_zps4c4c7ab7.jpg.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05699_zps18021247.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05699_zps18021247.jpg.html)


I also made a new crank holding tool. Works much better than the old unit I had that ripped apart taking my crank bolt out. I also found my D sprocket timing gear.

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/Jeep%20to%20diesel/DSC05697_zps4235c4a4.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/Jeep%20to%20diesel/DSC05697_zps4235c4a4.jpg.html)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on July 04, 2013, 10:43:02 pm
Awesome!  When you gonna get it dropped in, this weekend?

CRS told me how you could hold the crank with a flywheel bolt, a trans bolt, and some chain.  That's better for on-stand engines or ones that can't flip over, though.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 04, 2013, 10:44:30 pm
Yeah, this tool I can use in car. I found it fairly easy to hold the crank with one hand and torque the clutch stuff with the other.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 05, 2013, 10:17:20 am
Yeah, this tool I can use in car. I found it fairly easy to hold the crank with one hand and torque the clutch stuff with the other.
were not all john cena
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 05, 2013, 12:59:16 pm
If I were truly John Cena I would just torque them with my fingers or teeth LOL
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 05, 2013, 01:35:57 pm
looks like it would also work great on children who misbehave
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 05, 2013, 02:10:13 pm
looks like it would also work great on children who misbehave
Not enough spikes but a few hours with a welder I agree
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 06, 2013, 01:37:18 pm
the only issue crazy mike... me and lucas hae discussed this... what if that cast iron crank pully were too hair line crack from holding it... the chain method should be used when possible... that type of tool in car only... but id prefer a lock to replace the starter and lock it like 944 style crank lock.. 

ive seen crank bolts become loose w/broken timming belts.. both gas/diesel... using the crank sprocket to torque it... i just do not see it torquing right...your trying to torque the gear to the crank.. not the bolt to the gear i guess is how you need to look at it..
Title: Re:
Post by: theman53 on July 06, 2013, 08:07:44 pm
It is in. I have a ton to hook up but hard part is almost done. I don't have internet so posting from my phone. No pics yet:(

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 07, 2013, 11:23:04 am
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05701_zps01bbfffd.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05701_zps01bbfffd.jpg.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05703_zpsbb5ab700.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05703_zpsbb5ab700.jpg.html)


finally some pics to make people stay interested :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: ORCoaster on July 07, 2013, 04:44:33 pm
I see now why you don't have this complete.  Just mowing the grass around the place would take a couple of days for me.  But then I have a push mower. 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 07, 2013, 04:47:44 pm
that is the front yards. The back is bigger. I have a 48" zero turn that cut the mowing from 4+ hours to 1.5 hours. That is if it is dry and mowed well. It has rained every day since 6-21-13 and that took 2.5 hours as I had to clean the deck every so often. It sucks, I hate mowing grass, the wife usually does it but she doesn't now that she is due for our 3rd the 31st of this month.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: ORCoaster on July 07, 2013, 11:24:49 pm
Get her on that mower for an hour and you will be due for the third an hour after that.  Congrats.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Rising on July 10, 2013, 09:16:44 am
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05701_zps01bbfffd.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05701_zps01bbfffd.jpg.html)
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05703_zpsbb5ab700.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05703_zpsbb5ab700.jpg.html)


finally some pics to make people stay interested :D

lol when i saw this post I was like "why does he have the front end of a vw laying on his front porch."

I get it now..

Can't wait to hear this thing run!   ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 10, 2013, 10:35:51 am
Another 4" of rain Monday night and a good soaker last night, still haven't touched it since Sunday. Also, the littlest girl bought a bike Friday with her birthday money *born in march but a good saver like dad* and it came in last night. So even if it would have been nice out I was putting together a Monster High bike that would not wait.

BTW: I didn't get what you were saying, NOW I GET IT. LOL, that is funny. I meant it as a before and after, but I see how you thought the front of my car was the fore ground.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on July 10, 2013, 07:15:00 pm
Better?

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05701_zps01bbfffd.jpg)







(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05703_zpsbb5ab700.jpg)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 14, 2013, 09:54:24 am
Some water and a battery, after church I will light her off.

I lost *gained* a 2' section of boost tubing by running it this way. I will eventually have a couple of the silicone couplers eliminated by welding them together. As it is now I like it a ton better than what it was.

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05704_zpse7e0c3c0.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05704_zpse7e0c3c0.jpg.html)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on July 14, 2013, 10:12:19 am
Looking good Theman. Yeah, I can see where a bit of fiddling with the tube bends could eliminate an elbow or two - they really eat up the flow.
So your goal with the sausage stuffer intake is to have more low-end grunt?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 14, 2013, 10:38:15 am
Yeah, low end especially, but it should be a better intake all the way around even top rpm. The sausage stuffer tops will help force more air into the tube than what the tube would allow naturally, so that will help the high rpm. The low end it the runner length. It is just over 13.5" from the intake side of the valve stem to the top of the sausage stuffers. It has to do with air traveling as a sound wave but IIRC the peak torque should be made around 2,500rpm and should remain fairly flat from there on out. It is all math and formulas though, the real test will be this afternoon. I will put 300 miles on it today if all goes as planned.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on July 14, 2013, 10:46:37 am
Flow chart to be posted when done.

Not seen flow charts yet? ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 14, 2013, 01:24:36 pm
My machinist printer is down and he hasn't got it to me. What it did do is flow 18% more than my last head that was approx. 45% more intake and 20% exhaust over stock head from what he told me. I will get it as soon as I can as I am just as curious to the actual numbers.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 14, 2013, 10:37:20 pm
It lives. Took it for a five mile trip. The middle freeze blew out and I had to wait and limp home the last 1/4 mile. I had brought water just in case and glad I did.

Against CRSMP5 I will add a freeze plug heater to it and fill it with water again. Then test drive and change the oil.

It sounds sooo BAD. In a good way that is. It has a growl to it this time and the turbo whistle is definitely more present. I need more boost as I only made about 9psi. I will adjust the manual boost controller before next trip. Fun fun fun.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on July 14, 2013, 11:20:28 pm
Congratulations Mr!
Only 39,996 miles to go and you'll beat your old record by a mile ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 14, 2013, 11:22:48 pm
Yep, it is off to a rough start.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 14, 2013, 11:35:26 pm
Congratulations Mr!
Only 39,996 miles to go and you'll beat your old record by a mile ;D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/CRSMP5/mo%20bs/kneelsuckers.gif) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/CRSMP5/media/mo%20bs/kneelsuckers.gif.html)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on July 15, 2013, 12:03:54 am
I would use a mirror and light (however it works for you) to carefully examine that plug hole (cast iron). Probably no problems. But..........examine it none the less. I would also be a bit concerned about ALL the others as well.

Make sure you check to see if any oil running out of the trans/engine seam (the small plug).
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on July 15, 2013, 12:46:55 am
Additionally:

If you go with the block heater, spend a couple moments looking at how the particular heater bung/heater cord plug orients. Determine what is your best goal as far as electrical cord placement back there behind the turbo and downpipe.

I have installed some and then been irritated with an additional loop of cord in order to exit out the passenger-side of block (due to orienting it 180 degrees wrong).

I know it seems like small stuff, but small stuff matters. And, you can avoid a burned cord (which you only discover in the middle of a cold snap!).
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 15, 2013, 01:00:00 am
my issue is ive had a properly installed one blow out 1.5 years after install as the o-ring corroded.. had grease on it.. and pushed it out the block.. :( like they forgot the coating on the potmetal it was made from.. :( it was not a cheap crappy one.. never did that again on any of mine.. the 2 i have are og original vw ones.. still work and all.. have removable plug.. will not touch/remove or anything.. both 1.6 non hydro bottom ends.. 1 na, 1 td.. 12mm headbolts... so 82.5-86 parts... too bad aftermarket ones junk..
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 15, 2013, 08:43:50 am
I have checked out the hole with a light and ran my finger around, seems good. The plug I have maybe vw. as it looks like good stuff and I had to pry it out of my aaz block as it would not come out. I am just using it to plug a hole as I already have a block heater installed from the last engine in the far passenger side hole. Both block heaters on the car have the removable cord, so it is a shot that they could be stockers. I don't know what but I remember the middle freeze plug didn't look seated compared to the rest of them. I hoped to be further along than this. I at least wanted to have the first 20 mile filter change. Oh well.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 15, 2013, 08:48:54 am
you did not replace after hottank??? all need replaced if hottanked.. weakens them...
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on July 15, 2013, 09:18:04 am
They all need replaced if the block is tanked.  The two oil galley plugs and the plug at the end of the intermediate shaft should be as well.  The larger plugs are 36.6mm which is not a 'normal' size.  IIRC the galley plugs are 14mm.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 15, 2013, 09:33:12 am
called him just now.. they were.. sadly he also states/is thinking that one did not look to be in like the rest too. .:P opps... how we learn.. big mistake =  brain winkle..
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 15, 2013, 09:51:04 am
my machinist did all the freeze plugs, oil plugs, IM bearings, and the oil squirters. I did the assembly of the rest of the block. I don't think I would have done any better as I am not a good freeze/welch plug installer. I will have it going again, hopefully tonight.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 15, 2013, 07:12:48 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n9su0uexjzme746/VID_20130714_180256_514.mp4


There it is running its return voyage, before the freeze plug incident.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 16, 2013, 09:00:18 am
Can you guys see that video?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on July 16, 2013, 09:14:44 am
Yes - sounds ready to rock
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on July 16, 2013, 11:09:02 pm
Yaaay living. 

Won't say anymore; might jinx it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 16, 2013, 11:49:59 pm
I will have the new freeze plug tomorrow and hopefully installed. I want to get some miles on it and then report back.

This is a performance DD build. I will show you guys some pics if it lasts a bit of what was done. It may cause some to say I shouldn't have, but I don't care. It won't be any worse end than the last engine...

Most of you will hopefully drool as I am when I push the go pedal.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on July 17, 2013, 12:10:09 am
Performance.....double "D" job.....?
Are you going to call it: "Baywatch?"
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 17, 2013, 10:11:58 pm
Well...the lawn didn't get mowed tonight but I went for a real good drive. All I can say is wow. This is how all the TD's should have came from the factory. It is insane. If you want more just ask it for more. I haven't gone crazy on it yet about 16psi is what it builds now that I adjusted the MBC, but it needs more. It shoots right up to 1150-1200 F on the egt gauge and then stays right there as the boost builds and then it comes down some. I loaded it well on several hills around the house, the same ones that I drive the MKIV TDI with Malone stage 2 tune that needed the spec 2 clutch as it was spinning through the new stock unit that was in it. No exaggeration this IDI is about the same as the TDI...the IDI at half to 3/4 pedal that is.

I don't know what did it or if it was a combination of all of it. Remember the SAUSAGE STUFFER intake? I think it helps, but this may as well.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05704_zpse7e0c3c0.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05704_zpse7e0c3c0.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_194643_996_zpsbeba2ba1.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_194643_996_zpsbeba2ba1.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_185246_817_zps4e2802b2.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130607_185246_817_zps4e2802b2.jpg.html)

Now the biggest deal is this...with 7mm stems too. The valves are only part of the story, if you can see the rest. Sorry still waiting for the flow chart

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130515_213041_077_zpsd8bb9fd6.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130515_213041_077_zpsd8bb9fd6.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130515_203344_235_zpse8e2c018.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/IMG_20130515_203344_235_zpse8e2c018.jpg.html)

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on July 17, 2013, 10:30:41 pm
I will say the same thing I said on seeing the size of those valves:  ARERHWGUIRSRFBHt!!  I'm so glad you finally got this thing back on the road after all those setbacks and bullcrap.  Shows the 1.6 can be turned up to 11 and love it.  I predict this one will far outshine the previous iteration in both fun and longevity.  And all that head work shows that the old-dog IDI still has avenues to be explored and tricks up it's sleeve.  Now, for the love of all that is smokey, turn the boost up!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on July 17, 2013, 10:40:35 pm
WOOWEE! HOTTDAMN.

Much love, and congratulations brother. I am glad to hear that thing run, sounds BEAST.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: hillfolk'r on July 17, 2013, 11:03:02 pm
Sweet man I was gettin nervous somethin else bad would happen at your start up and a freeze plug is darn near a blessing compared to the long strange trip you had.
Lol hippie
Blame Andrews bus this weekend ;)
Heh and you aren't even broken in yet so wait for the fun it'll happen. And you notice it get faster ...and faster.
I saw a vid on YT comparing a new 16v with like 5k on it vs one with almost 100k on it.
At the end of the run, probably 1/4 mi, the old one had like 2 lengths on the new one.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 18, 2013, 12:36:15 am
 ;D  bet i get ride soon... rest gotta wait.. what.. 11 mo 28 days.. LOL..
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on July 18, 2013, 08:15:13 pm
Well...the lawn didn't get mowed tonight but I went for a real good drive. All I can say is wow. This is how all the TD's should have came from the factory. It is insane. If you want more just ask it for more. I haven't gone crazy on it yet about 16psi is what it builds now that I adjusted the MBC, but it needs more. It shoots right up to 1150-1200 F on the egt gauge and then stays right there as the boost builds and then it comes down some. . .
No expert - are those acceptable EGT numbers?
If not, do you have plans on how to lower 'em?

Cheers to your tenacity sir.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 18, 2013, 08:27:42 pm
Compared to the 1650F I used to have I will take 1200 ALL DAY LONG. IMHO 1,200F is mild, most factory TD will be right there max. Also IMHO 1,400F should be safe for this car all day long with the stainless valves and coated pistons. This one maybe able to handle more than that but I will not try to do it.

The 1650F that I used to have was why I did so much work to this engine. I think the laws of thermal dynamics basically told me you can't do that and I ate a precup. I think it would have went over 1650F before, I just always got scared and let off at that point.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 18, 2013, 10:55:51 pm
Another spin tonight. This time to the car wash and the diesel station. Loved every minute except I am always looking out so I don't get a driving award :D

This may get me into serious trouble. I am paying close atttn to the egt, water, and oil gauges. Looked down was doing 80mph and man I don't do that often. Once I feel better about the engine I will do much better watching the speedometer.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 18, 2013, 11:07:33 pm
time to build you a factory cruise set up...
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: ORCoaster on July 19, 2013, 12:09:40 am
Yes Officer, I know I was driving stellar.  No, I was not aware I was doing 80 in a 40 zone. 

Thanks for the award!!!!!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 22, 2013, 12:32:35 am
It is fast. Still a little sluggish off idle compared to the GTI I used to drive. Similar to the TDI but the TDI still will take it off the line. It scared the crap out of me last night. I finally got it to the floor as I rolled into it gently. Boost kept building, I was in 4th gear and it was pulling all the way until I let off...and gaining ground the entire time. I wasn't expecting it to pull as well in 4th going that fast and started to lose it in a corner. It was crazy. Need bigger brakes now.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: malone on July 22, 2013, 11:00:21 am
I miss my 1.6TD!! Cool project.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 22, 2013, 11:20:43 am
I was hoping someone from the old days would look at this and appreciate it. What do you think thus far Mr. Malone? I know I should probably get a video soon but the wife is not riding in it as she is ready to deliver any day.
It seems you could start your 1.6 over. It looks like Canada is the place to secure all the old IDI parts
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on July 23, 2013, 12:32:22 am
I was hoping someone from the old days would look at this and appreciate it. What do you think thus far Mr. Malone? I know I should probably get a video soon but the wife is not riding in it as she is ready to deliver any day.
It seems you could start your 1.6 over. It looks like Canada is the place to secure all the old IDI parts

Riding in that thing might even result in premature labor, the way you described the 4th gear pull!  Bravo yet again on pushing a previously-yellowed envelope.

Do you think you'll veer get it on a dyno?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 23, 2013, 12:57:55 am
I don't know. I wanted to engine dyno it but my machinist's is down. I would especially if it was cheap. I don't know where one is in Ohio. I have never searched for them. She maybe having it tomorrow, she is at the hospital now and if things get better she comes home tomorrow, if not she will have it in the morning. I can't wait.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 23, 2013, 07:40:35 am
you're a good soul, you should have about 20 more to thin out the dbag ratio of the world.
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 23, 2013, 11:53:07 am
Thanks but I am only nice when I am not in person. Real life I am an a hole...kinda. in half hour I will be putting another baby on board sign in the jetta lol.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 23, 2013, 01:01:25 pm
e-check have dyno.. part of the ohio crap for checking.. the goal is finding a shop who likes to do real dyno runs...

guy i know knows a few.. plan to vr6t set up on one.. toaster too.. do same day.. :D ill let you know when as wanna do myke's also..
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 23, 2013, 04:47:29 pm
It is a girl.
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 23, 2013, 04:48:41 pm
I will definitely do the dyno day if you get it set up. Just wait at least a month
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on July 23, 2013, 06:22:36 pm
It is a girl.

CONGRATULATIONS!!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on July 23, 2013, 08:52:44 pm
Congrats - how many in the brood now?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 23, 2013, 10:28:17 pm
Now and final 3 girls.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on July 23, 2013, 10:35:35 pm
planning wife #2 soon eahhhh

11 or so years from now...
please let them be in sinc so i only have to be gone for a week...........
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on July 23, 2013, 11:18:06 pm
Now and final 3 girls.
One out of the three is sure to be a diesel mechanic (or engineer) ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on July 24, 2013, 10:52:42 pm
Now and final 3 girls.

Snip snip, eh?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 24, 2013, 11:00:07 pm
Now and final 3 girls.

Snip snip, eh?

Yeah not for me.
Reese is the baby and is doing well. I am tired, she is more tired. All is going well so far. It is all I could hope for.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 30, 2013, 09:49:47 pm
Well, I took the girls to church sunday in the blue beast. About 1 mile from home I started to get into it good and something popped off. I thought it was a boost hose, then I thought wastegate, but tonight I took the turbo off and found it was the compressor wheel. I didn't drive it except home and then I took it out tonight after pounding on the housing trying to unstick the wastegate. I thought wastegate as I had this rebuilt and have around 100 miles on it, also sounded like it was dumping boost into the downpipe. Some broken fins but since I have less than 2 miles on it since it popped looks like all is well with the rest of the car and turbo.
Now we see if this rebuilder guy stands for his 12 month unlimited mile warranty. If he doesn't I will take him out of the forum never to recommend again :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on July 30, 2013, 09:56:05 pm
WOW LUCKY>

What if it had obliterated the fins and sent them through the engine?! Christ.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 30, 2013, 09:58:40 pm
Yeah.
I think the intercooler hopefully caught it all and isn't too hard to get it out of there. I took the intake loose and nothing in it or the head, so it is confined to the IC and piping I guess. Or it ate it all already and no harm. Still made about 9 psi with it all messed up.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on July 30, 2013, 10:00:10 pm
Wow man, congrats on the luck second time around lol.

I feel like my k03 is gonna shoot the wheel out the hood sometimes. Judging by what it is producing, it should be spinning like 190,000rpm haha.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 30, 2013, 10:18:27 pm
since he is going to be getting another wheel I wonder if there is a stage 2 or something...hmmm. I would be fine with that wheel maybe just a fuzz lighter.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 31, 2013, 07:25:53 am
that'd be sweet, but usually the only upgrade for the compressor wheel is to go for a larger trim, or to go billet, and i doubt there are any billet 45 trim t3 wheels out there.  staged t3 turbine wheels tho, there are tons of them.  maybe thats what u meant tho, because if the nut came loose off the turbine shaft, u may need a new turbine shaft, and that part is all one piece with the turbine wheel.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 31, 2013, 08:57:32 am
Tell me the benefits of a staged turbine wheels
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on July 31, 2013, 10:17:39 am
Why not a 30-40 year newer turbocharger? ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 31, 2013, 02:53:41 pm
Simple. I don't have the extra to spend or time to fab. I had all the pieces to build this, downpipe and all. This bolts right onto the car the same as a K14 or K24 or the stock T3 did. If the guy will not stand behind it then I would look into it as I wouldn't want to spend the money again on this same deal.

If he doesn't what do you recommend as I maybe buying a turbo for the jeep project depending on what the cost on Libby's electronic VNT deal will cost. It will be a 1.9 TDI that I will have done in similar fashion to this with a 12mm pump. I would love to have as much HP as possible but this being a heavier jeep would want quick spool. I have a GT 2256vk for it that I will try to hook up. Dreaming of 300hp.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 31, 2013, 03:23:34 pm
Simple. I don't have the extra to spend or time to fab. I had all the pieces to build this, downpipe and all. This bolts right onto the car the same as a K14 or K24 or the stock T3 did. If the guy will not stand behind it then I would look into it as I wouldn't want to spend the money again on this same deal.

If he doesn't what do you recommend as I maybe buying a turbo for the jeep project depending on what the cost on Libby's electronic VNT deal will cost. It will be a 1.9 TDI that I will have done in similar fashion to this with a 12mm pump. I would love to have as much HP as possible but this being a heavier jeep would want quick spool. I have a GT 2256vk for it that I will try to hook up. Dreaming of 300hp.

that is the good thing about the hybrids, they bolt on like stock, use the same oil feed and return lines, and most people already have a t3 on their car or laying around anyway, so the only cost is to find a larger t3 and then for a rebuild, and no new manifold is needed or special fab for a new downpipe and oil return line, feed lines are easy as sin too.

but i bet you alcaid recommends a holset he221w, which is a great turbo!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on July 31, 2013, 04:01:30 pm
HE221W is laggy on 1.6TD as single tubo, would only recommend it in a compound setup. Even a small version of HE221W with slightly smaller wheels and a 5cm turbine was laggy. The HE211W or the newer HE200WG (very similar) is a much better single turbo match. Off course a VNT with proper actuator control would spool faster. A .50 trim 56mm wheel would be good on the 1.6 as opposed to the .55 trim ones that most VNT turbos uses. I have it on my PD130 4Motion Golf (daily driver) and it works excellent. I have the Volvo GTB2056VL but there is also an Alfa Romeo application with same compressor. Believing in 300hp from a 56mm compressor would be on the edge on a gasoline engine. Not possible on a 1.6/1.9 diesel.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 31, 2013, 11:37:06 pm
I said I was dreaming. I think 275hp possibly and if it was more I would worry even more with the engine. My 2256vk is off of a Mercedes sprinter engine and really doesn't look much different size wise then the K24 on our cars. The housings look almost the same size anyway. I am going with a block girdle, studded all the way around, and the aftermarket rods for strength. All of this a year away as $$$ is the issue. The rods are around 500.00 that I have found. That is why I would like to run the turbo I have. I have a couple turbos I should sell to help the cause. My K24 and a VNT 15 from my TDI when I upgrade that.

BTW, the rebuilder said he would fix it. I asked about anything to help it spool and he said the 360 bearing, so I am having that put in. I am debating about a billet wheel as if it is lighter it would help spool as well. I don't want much faster, just a touch, as if I get it too fast I think I will have traction and transmission issues. It isn't bad now but a little spool would be better.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: bbob203 on July 31, 2013, 11:45:31 pm
What about bhw pistons i hear those are a decent upgrade.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 01, 2013, 08:11:28 am
I already found a set of 1st oversize AHU pistons for 75.00. THey will be coated and should do fine.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 01, 2013, 09:51:39 pm
OK here is the turbo deal. He is rebuilding it but it really must be my fault. It surged. From what he said it did and I talked to Rabbit Jockey and we all have the same conclusion...it surged. Not surge line but when I punched it and let off there was no where for the 15lbs of boost to go, so it went backwards and spun the compressor wheel backwards. The conclusion is even though it is a diesel I need a bov. If anyone has any better idea then I would love to hear it. Besides the awesome turbo advise Alcaid gave*not kidding I would love to have your turbo, but it just isn't in the works* I am up to listen.

This turbo is making a ton of boost and power, I love it and want it to work. The idea is to run a bov off the exhaust pressure and intake pressure differential. So instead of each side of a throttle body you would have the exhaust housing where the intake side of the throttle body input goes and the normal intake tract where it normally goes. This is all theory and I haven't held a bov in my hand but Shaman Rabbit Jockey, turbo rebuilder guy, and I think it would work. Let me know if or not as the turbo rebuilder guy says "I will repair this one, but if it does this exact thing again you are on your own."

Crazy Andy and Rabbit Jockey...You guys basically have the same turbo only even more compressor wheel, so in theory you should have more of this problem. Rabbit Jockey already knows, so I am just warning you Andy.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 410 on August 02, 2013, 01:02:02 am
I personally don't buy it.  A compressor wheel should self destruct before it spins off the shaft.  Imo, the nut holding the compressor wheel wasn't tight enough or not locked into place after being properly tightened.  And I don't buy that a diesel needs a bov.  The air can still flow through the engine on decel and the second you let off the pedal the load on the exhaust side drops rapidly.  Doesn't add up.  I hope the rebuilder is taking care of it for you.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on August 02, 2013, 03:36:22 am
I don't buy that one either. Surge normally ends with broken compressor wheel or broken shaft, not breaking loose the compressor wheel nut. And engine swallows LOTS of air even when letting of the go-pedal. Lots of bigger turbos than yours have survived on the small 1.6 without dismantling
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on August 02, 2013, 07:09:23 am
Guys, I am way out of my league here but could the design of your heavily modified intake have anything to do with how the engine handles the "surge" you mentioned?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on August 02, 2013, 07:26:28 am
A better intake should only help staying away from surge
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 02, 2013, 08:04:09 am
turbine shaft was bent, his builder said since old t3's have big heavy(slow spooling) turbine shaft that it bent instead of broke(like the pink song).  i do agree it is very odd but it makes alot of sense imo, when he lets off the go pedal, the turbo loses all of its drive pressure in the exhaust manifold, and that huge volume of pressurized air thats left in the intercooler piping tries to go backwards through the compressor violently stopping the spinning of the compressor wheel and reversing flow.

and also alcaid, i do not mean this in any kind of way where i disagree or don't believe u, i just want to help lucas get this figured out, but how many of those larger turbos used on 1.6 were also newer and higher quality stuff like schwitzer and holset which may have even had a ported shroud(anti-surge housing)?  like i said just questioning everything trying to get issue resolved.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 02, 2013, 08:14:25 am
and also another thought, an anti surge compressor could quite possibly solve this problem.  im almost certain it would need to be custom, but i don't think it would be too much work, just some grinding, some hole drilling, and then welding on a slightly larger inlet pipe
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2013, 08:46:25 am
yeah I posted this not to say I know but more to say I don't.
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2013, 10:16:28 am
I also was there and saw him put the final torque on it. I know he torqued it I was just thinking since I didn't see lock tight on the end of the shaft he didn't use any. It was there the nut just wore it off the end it was still there by the comp wheel end of the shaft. Again it doesn't surge from the surge line it seemed from what he said it surged from not having drive pressure.

He is fixing it he just won't be fixing it if the same thing happens again. For free anyhow.

I am open to more discussion. I really think all of us can figure it out.
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2013, 10:28:25 am
http://db.tt/zjHfaVkf

http://db.tt/zjHfaVkf
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on August 02, 2013, 10:56:20 am
It would be fairly easy to test.  Add an EMP gauge.  Watch them both and see if the drive pressure drops off faster than boost  when you let off the pedal.  If it doesn't, then the turbo builder messed up.  If it does, then add a BOV that keeps the intake pressure at or below the exhaust pressure. 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on August 02, 2013, 11:01:04 am
Is the turbo VSR balanced once assembled? If not, vibrations are one cause of things magically disassembling themselves...
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: bbob203 on August 02, 2013, 01:24:39 pm
Is the turbo VSR balanced once assembled? If not, vibrations are one cause of things magically disassembling themselves...

I hope so i had a turbo rebuilt by this guy too...
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2013, 04:29:41 pm
Yes this and all of his turbos are balanced with that lazer looking machine. He does great work as much as I can tell. I have taken serval turbos to him for people and this is the only one that failed so far. He offers a 12 month unlimited mile warranty.

Libby idea is the same idea rabbit jockey and I have talked about. I will probably be trying the bov. I figure if it isn't needed it will never function. If it is then I am good to go
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on August 02, 2013, 06:05:43 pm
It would be fairly easy to test.  Add an EMP gauge.  Watch them both and see if the drive pressure drops off faster than boost  when you let off the pedal.  If it doesn't, then the turbo builder messed up.  If it does, then add a BOV that keeps the intake pressure at or below the exhaust pressure. 

Your builder does make a good argument about the source of the turbo damage.  I am with other Any on this one;  I'd test to see if the EMP drops off before boost  once you get it back together.  Just pop out the ET sensor and put in a temporary EMP gauge and run it for one to two boost pulls.

The problem I see is if you do need to install a re-circulation valve (BOV is a ricer word to me; better to reroute the air back into the intake boot like the gassers do stock), since I don't know how you'd set it up so that the recirc valve dumps when EMP is less than boost.  I also don't know how this wold affect acceleration events when the EMP is lower than boost, however why it would be that way I don't know.  I honestly don't know a lot about intake/exhaust manifold pressure correlation under spool and boost to help devise an on-paper prototype at the time.  Sorry.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 02, 2013, 07:21:01 pm
emp is almost always higher, especially during spool up.  emp is lower when u decelerate tho.  i would think the bov hooked to the exhaust would probably work the same as a gas engine except for that you would need a lighter spring in it since u don't have vacuum to help pull the valve open.

also there are a few companies that already make a bov that is actuated by exhaust drive pressures for diesel applications but it looks like they may work in a little bit more complicated of a way than what i am thinking.

http://www.jgsturbo.com/dpptbov.pdf (http://www.jgsturbo.com/dpptbov.pdf)

http://www.jgsturbo.com/jgs600bovDkit.html (http://www.jgsturbo.com/jgs600bovDkit.html)

also heres a link where some diesel truck guys are discussing this exact issue

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/cheap-way-install-blowoff-valve-t148177p4.html (http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/cheap-way-install-blowoff-valve-t148177p4.html)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 02, 2013, 07:41:38 pm
and just to add more, i've spent my evening thinking about this whole thing alot(its not even my car!!!!)

for now he could easily solve the issue by not driving with full acceleration and gently releasing the skinny pedal instead of suddenly

i also called josh "powered by spearco" to see what he thought about the bov idea since he has worked on many different types of cars, and he agreed it should work.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2013, 08:14:35 pm
The way I understand it is that when the throttle plate shuts or the opening decreases suddenly and air demand decreases suddenly, the mass en transit has to stop, it's just air but there's mass to it, so then there's a reverse wave that travels backwards and acts against the compressor wheel in the opposite direction where the impact can cause serious mechanical damage. It's at that point, when the manifold pressure is relatively low and the charge delivery piping is still holding a relatively higher pressure, at that point is when you want to release that pressure, and it's that momentary pressure differential that drives the system tuning and determines the spring rate.

During steady state operation the pressure differential across the blow off valve diaphragm/piston should be pretty close to zero. But when the manifold pressure (the engine side of the throttle plate, compared to the rest of the system) is lower and the charge delivery piping is still higher, then the differential pressure across the blow off valve increases. It's that differential pressure increase that the spring is acting against. Increasing the spring rate increases the amount of differential pressure that can be tolerated before the blow off valve operates. Otherwise the pressure on either side of the blow off diaphragm/piston should be nearly equal and the valve stays shut.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2013, 08:15:49 pm
That ^ is more of a gasser response, but to add to Rabbit Jockey *Travis* I think it would work using E.xhaust M.anifold P.ressure and the normal boost pressure that a BOV sees. Is this what you are talking about Libby?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 02, 2013, 08:43:24 pm
also from talking to josh more, he says he never had this issue and he was running the straight mercedes t3 with the mercedes turbine wheel and .48 exhaust housing

but he also had a fmic with lots of piping just like your car, and he had even run much more boost psi.  you guys had very similar engines but his has survived many dyno sessions and 1/4 runs, at higher boost levels.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2013, 08:48:05 pm
call me if you want.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 02, 2013, 09:45:29 pm
Found this on another site and it makes sense to not need it...

Turbo bark isn't a huge problem, the engine on the other end is still consuming air and it's not until the turbo slows beyond the surge point for that pressure that the air can blow back through. It's nothing like slamming a throttle plate shut on a petrol. Some modern engines use the EGR valve to vent intake pressure to the exhaust with a rapid dumping of load, probably more for consumer perception than turbo life.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 02, 2013, 10:38:36 pm
The thing that raises my eye brow is that it happened in only 100 miless of driving and at only 15psi.

Also josh having a similar engine with nearly twice the boost and no issue.

I mean i want to agree with the turbo builder but those 2 things contradict what he has said imo

Although what he did say makes sense
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 03, 2013, 12:10:45 am
So I run 15-20 on my k03.. in which the waste-gate does not function as it never gets that high..

I spin this turbo probably at a higher turbine RPM than you guys are spinning your larger turbo's at, Why do I have no turbo bark at all? I can go from hard accel to nothing like not even decel.. clutch in and back to idle.

I heard a VNT mk4 the other day that had MASSIVE turbo bark from an idle-up throttle blip even.. wth?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 03, 2013, 12:18:13 am
For one u have no intercooler or related piping so not much volume for the gasses to build and store up pressure, and for 2 u have a tiny turbo with a tiny inducer so it has hard for the air to back out that inducer
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on August 03, 2013, 12:33:15 am
How about a simple check valve between the intake mani and exhaust mani that would allow air to flow to the exhaust when the pressure in the intake was higher, but stop exhaust from moving to the intake?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on August 03, 2013, 03:16:54 am
I must be in trouble, my automatic Dodge who's only mod is a short exhaust pipe  barks like an angry dog every time  you are under load, and let off.
I assume it has done it the last 210,000 miles.  I'd estimate the intercooler holds about 2 gallons.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 03, 2013, 08:59:19 am
nother theory...at 15psi I was venting tons through the wastegate as it probably had 30+ worth of drive. When I let off the wastegate was dumping the  drive pressure so there was not much left, then closed probably at 14.?psi but I still had all that air in the intake and not much in the exhaust. I think I would have been better off at 30psi as I would probably had 40+psi of drive pressure.

8v: I think of the k03 moving a bicycle tires worth of air and mine is moving a truck tires worth of air.

745: I don't know why I have problems and you don't. Other than this is not a stock turbo and yours probably is? I have a Mercedes 300D cold side a 45trim mounted to the VW hot side. Travis idea and mine was to have Mercedes boost with Vw spool. Maybe if the exhaust side was bigger and it took longer to make boost then the higher engine RPM would eat the boost when I let off? All guesses on my part.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 03, 2013, 10:51:07 am
How about a simple check valve between the intake mani and exhaust mani that would allow air to flow to the exhaust when the pressure in the intake was higher, but stop exhaust from moving to the intake?

Thats is the idea with the bov, except to have the air vent to atmosphere not the exhaust.

The only difference i can see with the dodge is that all of the holsets have anti surge compressor housings
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 03, 2013, 11:41:01 am
8v: I think of the k03 moving a bicycle tires worth of air and mine is moving a truck tires worth of air.

I punched some numbers, and our engines should actually move nearly the same amount of air through our turbo's at the 4000-4500 RPM range and WOT (roughly 240-245 CFM). I will need 3 less psi as well because of the larger displacement.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on August 03, 2013, 06:19:56 pm
Any idea how many times the nut had been on and off?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 03, 2013, 08:15:50 pm
No idea how many times the nut was on and off. New wheel and nut and shaft so all hopefully will be better.

I am tapping the ex. mani. for a copper line and running it to a 100psi gauge. I don't care how accurate it is I am going to try and see how fast it is losing EMP. If it is pretty constant then I will just run it. If it falls very rapidly I will add the BOV.

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 03, 2013, 09:19:45 pm
8v: I think of the k03 moving a bicycle tires worth of air and mine is moving a truck tires worth of air.

I punched some numbers, and our engines should actually move nearly the same amount of air through our turbo's at the 4000-4500 RPM range and WOT (roughly 240-245 CFM). I will need 3 less psi as well because of the larger displacement.

yeah but he has a way better intake manifold and porting and valve size and his compressor is capable of flowing nearly twice what a ko3 can do.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 03, 2013, 09:44:45 pm
At the request of Mr Rabbit Jockey Travis I have to tell what the rebuilder did.

He added a 360 degree bearing instead of the 270. Also, he put a different shaft into it. The new shaft is threaded backwards so that if the compressor would try to spin backwards it will tighten. This will help when it "surges" from now on I will call it gagging. My only fears now are 1. the nut will unthread under normal boost. 2. The shaft will snap.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 07, 2013, 09:26:51 am
This is the idea I will be trying if I need to. Thanks to Travis this may stop the gagging problem. From here : http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33903&page=2

(http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy60/chevyburnout1/Snapbucket/54768AAC-orig.jpg)

I don't know why he is running intake boost and boost from the wastegate unless he is sending it to the wastegate there. other than that it looks good to me.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 07, 2013, 11:47:33 am
that thread was a good read, that guy seems to have it fingered out, especially with how to tune it, i like how he used the check valve, which wasn't really a check valve... more of a one way restrictor
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 07, 2013, 12:45:38 pm
I don't know why he is running intake boost and boost from the wastegate unless he is sending it to the wastegate there. other than that it looks good to me.

i thought about this more, in the picture, he is just showing that he Teed into the line that normal would go to the wastegate or boost gauge.  i had thought the same thing is you like why the hell would you have 2 sources of boost when they are the same thing.

ideally i think you'd want to have one check valve going to the bov, and then 1 little adjustable restrictor to control how quick the bov lets the air that is holding the valve open back out, which would change how long it stays open.

i think how he put the bov on the cold side of the ic is important too since the psi will be lower there so the drive pressure will hold the valve shut better.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 07, 2013, 04:55:54 pm
I didn't see the check valve part, I am pretty tired and keep missing things. I will look again. I would think as long as the boost is bled off that it would be OK. The DP should open it and when it shuts it should be equal or DP higher right?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 07, 2013, 06:16:21 pm
So you have boost on one side of the bov and emp on the other?

This will keep everything legit whilst spooling? I have seen some big diesel builds where they made max power and boost with the external wastegate wide open and venting some excess exhaust gas.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 07, 2013, 07:54:28 pm
Yeah, apparently the light spring keeps it all good when at idle or similar per se.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 10, 2013, 05:47:49 pm
SO...after much theory the rubber has hit the road. I did my test and saw a max drive pressure around 40psi and max boost around 18...although most of the time it was only 5-10psi apart. The EMP being higher. The only way I could get it to 40 was to kind of trick it to get there. When they were both around 17psi if it was a normal pull, and 10psi EMP to 5psi boost when it was starting. Boost catches up to the EMP quickly and they are about even most of the time. The EMP drops about the same as the boost. I had the EGT was no higher than 800f no matter how hard I beat on it. So either the 360 bearing does wonders for this thing or the turbo had some issues before. The only other thing I saw was that some of the exhaust manifold and downpipe bolts were looser than I like but not LOOSE. The DP ones were a bit too loose as I was missing a nut on one. I don't think it would make a difference but I figured I would throw that out there. I could add more fuel and more boost now but I think I will just drive it a bit and see.

I also changed the gearbox oil as it was needing it. I found and added my exhaust hangers as they had fallen off in the turbo trade. Need to do some work on the rest of the car but all is well now.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on August 10, 2013, 10:09:44 pm

Sounds good.  Congrats.
Are you happy with the changes you made to the head and intake?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 11, 2013, 02:06:29 am
Yes, the head and intake rock. After driving it around more today it pulls better off the bottom but it doesn't hit as hard as it did earlier. I think it needs more fuel now. Before if you wanted more you just asked it for more, now it seems to not want to go like it did, but it has more take off. I think it is a very good improvement. Love it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on August 11, 2013, 08:01:25 am
With EGT maxing at 800, you should have plenty of room for more fuel ;D.
What do you thing is the biggest reason for the low EGT numbers - a massive intercooler or just not enough fuel?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 11, 2013, 09:43:34 am
Everything is identical as last time except I have .00000001% more exhaust manifold volume as I capped my flare fitting after I ran my EMP test. Besides that the turbo has been rebuilt and I added that exhaust hanger. Nothing that would change the EGT that drastically I would think. I took the intercooler off to clean it out but only some aluminum dust came out, not like it was restricted or anything.

The 360 degree bearing he said was a good upgrade to help spool but not much else. If that is the difference in the EGT this is the best upgrade to the car yet. It pulls similar to the ALH off bottom now but it doesn't hit as hard when it does come on mid to full boost.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 11, 2013, 11:13:28 am
It pulls similar to the ALH off bottom now but it doesn't hit as hard when it does come on mid to full boost.

Somehow the turbo completely changed the way it moved air and the power it gives the engine? I am confused on this one. Not saying that it is bad, or something is wrong.. just how in the hell does that happen lol?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 11, 2013, 11:19:57 pm
I have no clue what happened. It acts completely different now. Before it boosted but hit harder up top now it pulls from the bottom more and only gets to 800f egt so something changed. Maybe the entire time something was off on the last go around and this time when rebuilt it is as it should have been? I am hoping. Still pulls ok, but needs more fuel. I will give it that in about 500 more miles :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on August 12, 2013, 08:19:30 am
I have no clue what happened. It acts completely different now. Before it boosted but hit harder up top now it pulls from the bottom more and only gets to 800f egt so something changed. Maybe the entire time something was off on the last go around and this time when rebuilt it is as it should have been? I am hoping. Still pulls ok, but needs more fuel. I will give it that in about 500 more miles :D
Any chance your throttle cable is in a different position and your not reaching WOT?  BTW, smart move on a gradual increase on all the new stuff. I need to remember to "de-tune" mine before I get to jiggy wit it (if I ever finish the darn thing ;D)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on August 12, 2013, 09:16:48 am
he close to wot... too much throw and not enough pedal.. to get wot it will not return to idle..

(http://driiive.com/assets/cars/ce238b4e06ed2268fc7e38ed9bef0cbbd9c04cf3/photos/8603971376314470-07f04cb66e.jpg)

spent some time on his door latch/horn issues yesterday..
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 12, 2013, 10:28:47 am

(http://driiive.com/assets/cars/ce238b4e06ed2268fc7e38ed9bef0cbbd9c04cf3/photos/8603971376314470-07f04cb66e.jpg)


This was the look I was going for :D
(http://driiive.com/assets/cars/ce238b4e06ed2268fc7e38ed9bef0cbbd9c04cf3/photos/3823691374434258-a08342baae.jpg)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 12, 2013, 10:35:58 am
I didn't touch any fueling settings from the first turbo rebuild to this one. The fueling stayed the same, I figure the turbo wasn't making air correctly and now it is? So now the EGT are less and I need more fuel is all I can figure.

I cranked up the boost controller to see if I can make more boost and 15 pounds is now it. I don't know why when I had the EMP gauge on it I could make 18psi and now only 15psi, but the consensus is I need more fuel.

CRS and I took a spin and I did get to WOT a couple times. It made the weird noise when I was chasing down a Civic. Thought a boost hose blew off but it didn't. As soon as it happened I let off. Similar noise it made when it undid itself last go around. This time it was fine...

CRS also said he could he me on the street above his house coming in LOL. It has a neat throaty sound. I think he liked the drive and did some good work on the door handles :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 12, 2013, 12:40:35 pm
yeah i actually had to stretch my arm out to get it haha.  do you 2 think it may still need a bov?  or didn't it make the noise when you were shifting?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 12, 2013, 12:43:33 pm
made the noise under full load right about to shift
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 25, 2013, 08:54:43 pm
Dropped the wastegate to around 10psi as that is easy to hit no issues. I think that the sound I heard was the wastegate opening only at that 15psi ish level it is more violent and louder. At 10psi you can hear it modulating, and if you keep giving it the skinny pedal it will rise  on up a bit. Seems like the wastegate just can't get rid of it enough to keep it down. Seems to stop creeping around 13 psi. I hope that is good enough and wonder if when I up the fuel if I should set it for 20ish psi hoping for it to creep to 25ish???

That leads me to the next question, with this turbo and head combo what should be the max psi I can run? I don't want to over spin the turbo as the V.E. is probably pretty good compared to a stock head. If the machinist would ever send me the flow chart I could get an idea but just as the head took over a year to get ... I am not getting anywhere with the flow chart. So just guessing around 25psi for max as the head maybe swallowing up the boost??? If you didn't know it is a T3 vw exhaust with a T3 Merc 45 trim cold side. The head has 7mm stems and 40mm intake 33mm exhaust.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on August 25, 2013, 09:04:35 pm
NICE! and SIHT all at the same time.

Very weird what it is doing. Same noise, but no broken compressor.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 26, 2013, 09:40:21 am
I think the last time something was messed up with the turbo. This noise sounds different than when the compressor bailed on me but the same noise as when CRSMP5 and I took that spin. The turbo when boosting over 10 psi makes a loud turbo whine too. It kind of scares me as it is loud and sounds like it is spinning too fast. I have no clue how fast it is going and that is why I wonder what the total PSI should be set at.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on August 27, 2013, 07:35:44 am
im thinking you'll be done with that turbo in the 20-25psi range.  i think you'll be able to tell when you're at the limit of the turbo, i know on my 1.8t it really pulls till 5-6k and then u can just feel it that theres no more air.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 29, 2013, 09:18:55 am
Trying to find my old flow chart from Dec. of 08. I guess I will have to dig it up as where it was posted in my old thread is no longer working and I cannot find it in the computer. I have new flow chart numbers for the intake only I am trying to compare it to a stock heads flow. Granted every stock head will not flow exactly alike but this will give me an idea.

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/intake_zps9045a2a7.png) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/intake_zps9045a2a7.png.html)

Found it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the old head, it shows stock intake exhaust as well as the modded intake exhaust.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/flowchart_zpse1bb29a4.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/flowchart_zpse1bb29a4.jpg.html)

OK so to explain, 1 and 2 above are the intake in ported / stock. Then 3 and 4 are the exhaust in stock / ported...Of the old head in case you missed that. The top is just the intake numbers from the new head.
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Rising on August 29, 2013, 10:58:58 am
So thats just ported intake and exhaust ports on the head before and after? Or is that with bigger valves and all your other mods?

If that's a simple port and polish. It seems there is great gains to be had on the intake side. I've been curious about doing some home gasket matching and polishing to try and eek out some more efficiency.

Also do you have numbers that compare the stock TD IM to your sausage stuffer flow or are those secrets ;D

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: shwak23 on August 29, 2013, 12:25:43 pm
I think the last time something was messed up with the turbo. This noise sounds different than when the compressor bailed on me but the same noise as when CRSMP5 and I took that spin. The turbo when boosting over 10 psi makes a loud turbo whine too. It kind of scares me as it is loud and sounds like it is spinning too fast. I have no clue how fast it is going and that is why I wonder what the total PSI should be set at.

Have you posted a video of this beast yet?

Sent from Outer Space!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 29, 2013, 06:26:29 pm
So thats just ported intake and exhaust ports on the head before and after? Or is that with bigger valves and all your other mods?

If that's a simple port and polish. It seems there is great gains to be had on the intake side. I've been curious about doing some home gasket matching and polishing to try and eek out some more efficiency.

Also do you have numbers that compare the stock TD IM to your sausage stuffer flow or are those secrets ;D

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

I have no numbers on the sausage stuffer intake or the stock intake. Although my machinist said the stocker will "probably" flow similar to mine at redline, but it will have so much tumble that unless it is at redline it will flow a lot less in all other situations, especially low to mid rpm.

On the 2 charts. The top chart is the new oversized intake valve CFM ratings. The  bottom chart is my old head that just had stock sized stainless valves and the port and polish vs. stock numbers on that same head with no port and polish. I just wanted to show what the difference was between stock, ported, and big valve 7mm stems ported.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 29, 2013, 06:32:14 pm
I think the last time something was messed up with the turbo. This noise sounds different than when the compressor bailed on me but the same noise as when CRSMP5 and I took that spin. The turbo when boosting over 10 psi makes a loud turbo whine too. It kind of scares me as it is loud and sounds like it is spinning too fast. I have no clue how fast it is going and that is why I wonder what the total PSI should be set at.

Have you posted a video of this beast yet?

Sent from Outer Space!

Just this one...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n9su0uexjzme746/VID_20130714_180256_514.mp4

and that is the 1st or 2nd start with the old turbo that blew up. It is a deep, nasty, and throaty little one, but that is the way I like them.

Soon I will post up something of it running but I haven't had a competent camera person yet.
Title: Re:
Post by: shwak23 on August 29, 2013, 10:21:27 pm
Time for a tripod.

Sent from Outer Space
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 30, 2013, 09:11:11 am
So thats just ported intake and exhaust ports on the head before and after? Or is that with bigger valves and all your other mods?

If that's a simple port and polish. It seems there is great gains to be had on the intake side. I've been curious about doing some home gasket matching and polishing to try and eek out some more efficiency.

Also do you have numbers that compare the stock TD IM to your sausage stuffer flow or are those secrets ;D

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

I have no numbers on the sausage stuffer intake or the stock intake. Although my machinist said the stocker will "probably" flow similar to mine at redline, but it will have so much tumble that unless it is at redline it will flow a lot less in all other situations, especially low to mid rpm.

On the 2 charts. The top chart is the new oversized intake valve CFM ratings. The  bottom chart is my old head that just had stock sized stainless valves and the port and polish vs. stock numbers on that same head with no port and polish. I just wanted to show what the difference was between stock, ported, and big valve 7mm stems ported.

Just to show you I answered you before the page scrolled over...

I got more information from the machinist and he said the intake went up about 20% and the exhaust 16% on average. While I have the intake numbers above I don't have the exhaust so I will have to figure that out.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 31, 2013, 07:02:40 pm
I think the last time something was messed up with the turbo. This noise sounds different than when the compressor bailed on me but the same noise as when CRSMP5 and I took that spin. The turbo when boosting over 10 psi makes a loud turbo whine too. It kind of scares me as it is loud and sounds like it is spinning too fast. I have no clue how fast it is going and that is why I wonder what the total PSI should be set at.

Have you posted a video of this beast yet?

Sent from Outer Space!

1st and 2nd gear pull little of 3rd to coast down. From dead stop with 10 psi and 750f egt...way more to go. You can barely hear the turbo whistle as compared to the way it is in car. It is a cell phone format so I don't know what you can use. I used media player and it plays it with no audio. I hear it just fine on the phone though???

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ghlu8ih9dawxgb/1%2B2%20gear%20pulls%2010psi
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on September 01, 2013, 01:26:14 am
Wait....I want proof the car was not on jack stands in that video........
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on September 01, 2013, 11:08:15 am
You're brave eh? Approaching the 5000RPM mark each shift?

Right on.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 01, 2013, 01:04:00 pm
Ags with the 3.67 r&p, so I haven't calculated but I thought I was shifting later than that.
AGS (86-90 1.6 Diesel) ***3.94*** gone and replaced with 3.67,  3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75

I have the 185/60r14 so with a 30mph and 55mph shift that would be approx. 5,614 and 5,788 respectively.


http://scirocco.org/gears/
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Rock3tman on September 01, 2013, 05:11:03 pm
...your audio file of the 1-2-3 pull sounds awesome on quicktime!   

What do you think the high rpm capability of my mostly bone stock 1.6CY engine is with the following changes:
 - completely balanced bottom end with ARP rod bolts and first oversize KS pistons,
 - stock head, new stock cam, all new mechanical valvetrain for turbodiesel,
 - stock intake manifold,
 - stock injection pump,
 - VNT-15 turbo with Libbydiesel actuator & frozenboost AWIC,
 - stock FN transmission with 3.67 R&P?

Also how much horsepower do you think you make and what clutch are you using/is it enough to hold it long term?   At what psi boost level would you expect stock intake valves to be held open?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on September 01, 2013, 05:16:45 pm
I'd say you are probably right on track with the power of a stock 1.9L AAZ. You have less displacement and an inter cooler.. so it is a fair comparison.

approx. 75-80hp 110-120tq. (at the crank)

Also the intake valves do not have such issues you are speaking of. As soon as one cylinder is done taking in air the next one is ready to start accepting. People have run (for no other reason than to be stupid) like upwards of 40psi on a stock head.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 01, 2013, 05:32:34 pm
Could be more.  Depends on how much boost and what kind fuel pump/fuel settings it has
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on September 01, 2013, 05:38:03 pm
I assumed he meant stock fueling when he said stock pump lol.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on September 01, 2013, 07:07:50 pm
The RA/SB GTDs were rated at 80hp with the only effective difference being that they were intercooled.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 01, 2013, 08:52:09 pm
...your audio file of the 1-2-3 pull sounds awesome on quicktime!   

What do you think the high rpm capability of my mostly bone stock 1.6CY engine is with the following changes:
 - completely balanced bottom end with ARP rod bolts and first oversize KS pistons,
 - stock head, new stock cam, all new mechanical valvetrain for turbodiesel,
 - stock intake manifold,
 - stock injection pump,
 - VNT-15 turbo with Libbydiesel actuator & frozenboost AWIC,
 - stock FN transmission with 3.67 R&P?

Also how much horsepower do you think you make and what clutch are you using/is it enough to hold it long term?   At what psi boost level would you expect stock intake valves to be held open?
I don't have it figured out for your stock application, but I know I had to go to a stiffer valve spring as I increase the intake valve diameter by about 25%. Also my turbo moves more air than the k24 or stock vw t3, that being said, my setup was good on paper to 22psi before needing the stiffer valve spring. After that on paper it could have been held open a bit. On a stock sized valve you should be good for whatever psi a stock pump could make your turbo spool or upwards of 70psi *guessing* before a stiffer intake spring is needed.
As far as HP I don't know right now, but I am hoping for 200+ whp when I finally have it where I want it. I am using a clutchnet 6 puck with a 6 spring hub and the clutchnet red pressure plate. The clutch setup is 210mm and 2 pin flywheel. I think it is a forged BFI flywheel from a gasser as I haven't seen one that looks like this one ever. I got it from CRSMP5 and he has no clue what it is either.

As for your power question I would guess around 100hp? That vnt is supposed to flow more than the older turbos and the awic  with some fuel I think it possible. It really depends on how much fuel you can throw at it. I think how much cold air the turbo can push will determine how much fuel and therefore the HP. If you don't touch the fuel screw it won't make any more than it does right now. My engine is a CY with a mech head, first overbore, and some other goodies so more is possible.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 01, 2013, 10:51:10 pm
there is an old thread where someone had built a mild 1.6 with a vnt and he gteched it and everything, that was quite a few years back

with a hydraulic motor valve float can occur on the exhaust side from too much back pressure, but thats only on an engine with hydraulic lifters.


lucas!  I think 200whp is possible, i wouldn't expect more than that tho.  its hard to know what to expect tho since your setup is pretty unique.  I definitely think your engine with those valves will make the best of that turbo.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 02, 2013, 01:12:17 am
I think it is down to turbo for me. If Dave made 195 and MJF made close to 225-250 on stock valves and similar pump, dave had less pump, I think it is up to the turbo as the deciding factor. Going to 40mm intake valves is a ton more air than stock, so I can add some fuel, but if the turbo can't give me cold enough air that's it. You said the inducer and exducer *could* make 225-250 in a gasser, so I am hoping for 200+ :)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 03, 2013, 09:56:47 am
I would like to say on the clutch... I have a south bend in the TDI and it feels way better than the clutchnet in the MK2. Different animals I know but just looking at the 2 clutches construction if I had to do it again I don't know which I would pick. The south bend is nice but I don't know what it could handle, the clutchnet is harsh but it handles a bunch. I think southbend might have a better quality control, so I think I may go that route. For a build like yours and not needing a performance clutch I would do a Luk clutch any day. My old Luk clutch held the old engine just fine. It was a 210mm as well but in 10,000 miles it held just fine with no signs of wear.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on September 03, 2013, 07:49:09 pm
In my experience, the SB clutches will handle at least what they claim it will, and feel great doing it.  If you get one rated for your output, it will be fine.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 07, 2013, 06:35:48 pm
Well, I think I exploded another turbo. When I feel like it I will take it off and see what I got.
Backstory: I was finally getting on it as I have about 1,000 miles on it and boosting good in 3rd. Pop it went and it felt and sounded exactly like a boost hose going. I had a truck behind me so I coasted it about 1/2 mile to the turn off and then the truck followed me so I had to climb the hill. Got to the top and it started to run away so I dumped the clutch and killed it. Towed it home and now I am thinking about having a Stella Artois or 12 and taking it off.

In hindsight as good as that turbo made it run I don't think it is built for the long haul.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 07, 2013, 07:18:03 pm
Man, that's a real shame. Are you running higher boost pressures than it was designed for?
Is there any possibility that your larger valves are letting too much flow? Never heard of it and I really know nothing about turbos cpmpared to you and others here. This just makes no sense.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 07, 2013, 09:13:38 pm
I have no clue. Looks good on paper, but real life it sucks. I think it was eating the air the turbo made too well because of the valves as you said. From what we have figured the intake and exhaust should be at least 75% efficient to 29psi with a stock head, mine wouldn't make more than 18psi so I think it was eating up all the boost and possibly overspeeding. If it were stock valves I bet it would have lasted a bit more.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 07, 2013, 09:26:46 pm
I have no clue. Looks good on paper, but real life it sucks. I think it was eating the air the turbo made too well because of the valves as you said. From what we have figured the intake and exhaust should be at least 75% efficient to 29psi with a stock head, mine wouldn't make more than 18psi so I think it was eating up all the boost and possibly overspeeding. If it were stock valves I bet it would have lasted a bit more.
Maybe a bigger turbo?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 07, 2013, 09:30:02 pm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-GENUINE-BORG-WARNER-AIRWERKS-S200SX-56-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-TURBOCHARGER-/290963919302?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43becd11c6&vxp=mtr

I think, I would like to talk to Alcaid and some others. If I am going to make a setup I will make it with something that works and not just fits. I am thinking of a scwitzer s200 super but I don't know what I will do. Lots of thinking less money than thinking.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: bbob203 on September 07, 2013, 10:44:29 pm
gt2052???
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 07, 2013, 10:50:36 pm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-GENUINE-BORG-WARNER-AIRWERKS-S200SX-56-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-TURBOCHARGER-/290963919302?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43becd11c6&vxp=mtr

I think, I would like to talk to Alcaid and some others. If I am going to make a setup I will make it with something that works and not just fits. I am thinking of a scwitzer s200 super but I don't know what I will do. Lots of thinking less money than thinking.
Yeeeeaa Flow

Gotta hand it to ya - you don't give up easy
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 07, 2013, 11:33:47 pm
 :( how ya supposed to drive it over to go for a ride in my b3 tomarrow? or photo and take notes on the 02a tear down??
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 08, 2013, 03:26:02 am
That S200 is similar to a Holset HX35 but with an even bigger turbine housing, will never spool :(

The Holset HE211W or a special version of the HE221W both have 5cm turbine housing and that's as big as I would go in a single turbo setup. He211W is similar to a GT2056 and that 5cm HE221W would translate to a "GT2158" and it has a durable billett compressor wheel, tested to up to 45psi on 1.6TD ;) wouldn't recommend running more than 36psi in the long run though. Have one I could let go for 500USD + shipping to help you out. Not even covering my costs but I feel your pain after 2x turbo failures. I could get hold of a HE211W for you if needed as well. Also tested up to 45psi, never seen one of these small frame Holsets fail yet ;) Seen lots of KKK and Garretts fail on these 1.6TD high boost applications.

The normal HE221W has a 7m turbine housing and wheels similar to the GTB2260VK, but I's too laggy run as a single turbo :( i have a custom machined 5cm turbine housing for it but haven't tested it yet.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 08, 2013, 07:18:37 am
he has my turbo pieces.....  he could get it built and see if it holds together... hell callin sponge bob... you dont have to send it to canada... but think yours needs tested... lucas looks to be good tester.. :P 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 08, 2013, 07:51:41 am
Theman, As I recall, you were waiting (forever) for some flow info from the guy that did your head. I'll bet those numbers would help right about now.
One thing for sure - this ain't no 1.6 anymore ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 08, 2013, 08:47:55 am
That S200 is similar to a Holset HX35 but with an even bigger turbine housing, will never spool :(

The Holset HE211W or a special version of the HE221W both have 5cm turbine housing and that's as big as I would go in a single turbo setup. He211W is similar to a GT2056 and that 5cm HE221W would translate to a "GT2158" and it has a durable billett compressor wheel, tested to up to 45psi on 1.6TD ;) wouldn't recommend running more than 36psi in the long run though. Have one I could let go for 500USD + shipping to help you out. Not even covering my costs but I feel your pain after 2x turbo failures. I could get hold of a HE211W for you if needed as well. Also tested up to 45psi, never seen one of these small frame Holsets fail yet ;) Seen lots of KKK and Garretts fail on these 1.6TD high boost applications.

The normal HE221W has a 7m turbine housing and wheels similar to the GTB2260VK, but I's too laggy run as a single turbo :( i have a custom machined 5cm turbine housing for it but haven't tested it yet.

that special one was the one I thought I was looking for. I will have to build a manifold and downpipe so I don't know if the car would be going by winter now. I would love to buy it off of you but probably 600.00 in turbo and then the cost of making a manifold are not in the budget. BUT I will see if I can do it anyway.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 08, 2013, 08:49:48 am
Theman, As I recall, you were waiting (forever) for some flow info from the guy that did your head. I'll bet those numbers would help right about now.
One thing for sure - this ain't no 1.6 anymore ;D

page 19 on my screen I posted the intake numbers and then the numbers from the last head and stock. It flows basically 150cfm at full lift intake wise
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 08, 2013, 09:04:46 am
Alcaid, what is the power expectation of that 221w? I don't think I would run it over 30psi as I think the head eats up air way more than normal. Seems that this last one was maxed out I think at that 18psi level and on paper it was supposed to be around 29 ish. Also I have read your threads before but how did it spool? I have really good pull off boost but the pull on used to start I would guess around 1600 rpm if it was there I would be fine with that.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 08, 2013, 09:16:29 am
Theman, As I recall, you were waiting (forever) for some flow info from the guy that did your head. I'll bet those numbers would help right about now.
One thing for sure - this ain't no 1.6 anymore ;D

page 19 on my screen I posted the intake numbers and then the numbers from the last head and stock. It flows basically 150cfm at full lift intake wise

. . .Thought I watching closer, thanks
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 08, 2013, 09:46:35 am
I may have reached my limit. I would sell it as is if someone wanted to come and get it. I just don't want to spend another 600-1000 dollars on it and work for another bit on fabbing it all together. I thought about it last night and figured I would be calmed down this morning, but the more I think about it the more pissed off I get.
Car, engine, trans, and all the extra mk2 parts and an 02A from a TDI ---- come get it for 5,000.00 USD... I have more than that invested in the pump, head, block, clutch, and trans.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 08, 2013, 10:47:28 am
wow... we know this gotta hurt..
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 08, 2013, 10:56:52 am
I may have reached my limit. I would sell it as is if someone wanted to come and get it. I just don't want to spend another 600-1000 dollars on it and work for another bit on fabbing it all together. I thought about it last night and figured I would be calmed down this morning, but the more I think about it the more pissed off I get.
Car, engine, trans, and all the extra mk2 parts and an 02A from a TDI ---- come get it for 5,000.00 USD... I have more than that invested in the pump, head, block, clutch, and trans.
I feel for you Mr -what with a new baby and all. But there's no harm in letting it sit for a week or two. Who knows, maybe someone will hand you a better turbo or you'll figure out what it needs.
I didn't know an engine could over-spin a turbo. Boost pressures too high, yes, but is sounds like you were well below spec on pressure.

Did the mishap cause any engine damage?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 08, 2013, 11:27:49 am
I really don't think it did any engine damage. I was not on it when it started to go and it didn't get to even 4,000 rpm *guessing* and I dumped the clutch. The oil is still almost full maybe 1/4 quart low, so it didn't run long. 5 seconds maybe, so I really don't think it hurt a single thing.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: flowmastergfunk on September 08, 2013, 02:57:53 pm
Making good progress getting through this whole build thread finally! You were barely diggin into it when I was starting my car. Sooo much has happened in the last year!

Your speak of getting a "driving award" almost killed me hahaha I have surprisingly never heard that before! Hopefully, by the time I get to the very end of this thread, all is well. I don't want to skip to the end of the book yet, but I had to chime in ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: flowmastergfunk on September 08, 2013, 03:30:51 pm
....aaaaand this sucks too much to be a final chapter! I am hurting for you! This thing is BAD! I have zero turbo experience, but I feel like I learned a bunch just from this thread. Hope something amazing happens with getting a new snail and you don't have to ditch it. Mad props!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 08, 2013, 04:59:02 pm
Maybe just use an adapter plate to attach the holset?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 08, 2013, 06:13:50 pm
Your T3 45 trim is a 20lbs/min compressor, the smallest HE221W flows about 35lbs/min ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 08, 2013, 08:28:52 pm
Your T3 45 trim is a 20lbs/min compressor, the smallest HE221W flows about 35lbs/min ;)
I was reading about that on a truck forum. That is what they said too 35 lb/min. Is there a way to convert cfm to lb/min or how to you size these things?

Also, how hard is it to make this work on the 1.6l? New downpipe, oil lines, manifold, etc? or is it fairly easy to mate it to stock VW stuff like the manifold and DP? Do you have a manifold and downpipe included at that 500.00 price, if so I will find a way to get it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 09, 2013, 12:23:12 am
An adapterplate might work on a stock 1.6TD manifold, as it's a very compact turbo. The turbo uses a standard T25 flange. Downpipe flange is a MHI TD04 design. I have made CAD drawings for both flanges if you'd like to cut them yourself or get it done locally. Oil feed is M10x1.25 thread (Garretts are M10x1.00), oil drain is 38mm bolt-bolt oil drain as used on many Garrett and MHI turbos. details here:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/HE221W%20connections_zps96d02f41.jpg)

Don't have any parts already made to go with it, It's a brand spankin' new and unused turbo
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 09, 2013, 09:24:58 am
Post me some pics. It looks like I will have to get it running to sell it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 09, 2013, 06:23:54 pm
Looks like the same drain as the K24 and T3 that vw had. I am interested, very interested. If possible could you see how bad shipping would be from you to 44611. Any and all help would be great on the Down Pipe. When I said post pics, I just mean of the turbo to see how it is shaped to see if it will be easy or as hard as I think it will be.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 09, 2013, 10:24:23 pm
if you look at the volvo cores i left you i think its the same 3 bolt style set up...
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 09, 2013, 11:25:34 pm
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/354_zps9c8d6af6.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/357_zpsfeb8bb9f.jpg)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/358_zps441de71f.jpg)

I'm actually in Canada these days so would have to check up shipping when I'm back in Norway, but I would guess it's somewhere in the region of 100$
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 10, 2013, 03:19:15 am
what turbo flange did calloway use? someone is repo them and that looks like direct bolt on...
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Toby on September 10, 2013, 06:00:56 am
Post me some pics. It looks like I will have to get it running to sell it.

It is such a sad thing when guys bail on such an expensive project when things don't go right. Most projects have teething pains. If you give up on it now you will likely regret it for the rest of your life.

I know what it is like to get frustrated with a project. It hurts much less if you make a buck or at least break even. Once you get the turbo off you will have a better idea what went wrong. Unless the turbo was junk when it went on, I would suspect some FOD. For me that would be much easier to take than an unexplained failure. Don't lose heart. I haven't been paying much attention to this thread till just lately. What kind of turbo do you need to get it running? I have one off of a 5GTD that I think is a K24. I will look in the morning. I will loan it to you if it will get you going.
Jason
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 10, 2013, 08:04:15 am
I need the HE 221w. I had 2 professionally rebuilt vw t3 hotside with a Mercedes t3 cold side. One let loose in 100 miles this one let loose in about 1,000 miles. The shaft snapped on the last one, the first one the nut came loose in the compressor wheel. Thanks for the offer.

Alcaid, let me know as soon as you can. I blocked the oil feed and had it running last night. All is perfect with the engine, just a little smokey with all the oil and no exhaust hooked up. Looks like a K14 size and I maybe able to adapt it onto the junk I have easily.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 10, 2013, 09:28:32 pm
I am confused now.

The cad shows the 4 bolt Downpipe flange but the picture shows a 5 bolt? The MDI T04 flange as you said was 4 bolt but the T25 is a 5 bolt and looks like what is above in the pictures. Please let me know what it is if possible, Alcaid or others.

See the 2 on this page that look like it.
http://www.psiconcepts.com/store/index.php?l=product_list&c=11
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 410 on September 10, 2013, 09:39:59 pm
Have you thought about mounting the gtb2256?  You already own it so all it would take is a little labor to make it work.  The last vnt install I did I used a wastegate  to control the boost with an adjustable stop to adjust peak boost.  Super simple and easy to dial in.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 10, 2013, 10:00:01 pm
I did.

I am currently setting it up for the jeep and really don't like the VNT part. I am not good with that part. It is hanging there, but I think I will wait for the jeep on that one. That said, I would be interested in the setup you did with the wastegate. The jeep needs tons of work.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 410 on September 10, 2013, 10:30:06 pm
I used a wastegate from a K03 and built an adjustable lever stop to limit how far the vanes can open.  Basically a small piece of angle iron that bolts up to the turbo and is threaded with a bolt and lock nut for the stop.  I initially tried it with just the wastegate but couldn't get over 12 psi at WOT.  I added an air bleed to the wastegate to get a little more max boost but that increased the boost while cruising to unacceptable levels (15 psi@2500 rpm) once we finally achieved the max boost we were looking for.  The lever stop to limit how far the vanes open gave me an adjustment for max boost and the air bleed on the wastegate worked well for adjusting boost under light throttle.  Once it was set we never had to touch it again.  But, even at 12 psi it felt really good.  That gtb2256 turbo would be well suited to that 1.6.  I am almost certain that there would be less lag with the 2256 then your last turbo.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 10, 2013, 10:37:41 pm
There was very little lag with the last turbo. It lit almost identical to the VNT 15 in the mkiv that I daily. Take pics as I have decided to only use that in the jeep since it is so big outside dimensionally I don't think it would work well in my MK2. Also, even if it would I want the quicker spool for the heavier jeep since the wife isn't a normal diesel head like myself and will want power right away I am sure.

Still I would love to see a pic or 12 of that setup. Sounds like it would be trail ready with angle iron...that is always a good start.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 10, 2013, 10:40:01 pm
(https://www.facebook.com/ajax/mercury/attachments/photo.php?fbid=10202036950625280&mode=contain&width=468&height=468)

Alcaid, do you have a better compressor map than this one? This is comparing the old 45 trim to your HE221W.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 11, 2013, 12:46:09 am
5th hole on flange is not being used so 4-bolt vs. 5-bolt, they are exactly the same.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 11, 2013, 08:32:55 am
5th hole on flange is not being used so 4-bolt vs. 5-bolt, they are exactly the same.
Cool as I found the 5 bolt a ton cheaper than the 4 bolt flange.

Alcaid, you have PM on the turbo subject.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 15, 2013, 10:16:24 am
I bought the cast manifold and a downpipe flange. This one will be V banded as I will not make another one for me personally that isn't V band. Getting my DP off the mk2 is going to be fun.

Alcaid, I will send you the money soon.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 16, 2013, 11:11:13 am
Onto better thoughts. I bought the turbo from Alcaid and have been thinking about the way it ran previous. And I have came to the conclusion I was off when I thought the K24 on the old engine didn't spool. It did, just as this new turbo did, but it was gutless on the lower RPM end. I think I have figured it out. I think it is the INTAKE MANIFOLD design.
   
     When I made the sausage stuffer intake I wanted to help out the bottom as much as possible. All the N/A diesels I had driven all seemed to have decent torque off the bottom. But the old mech. TD engine in this car had nothing until boost, even with my Giles pump it wasn't impressive. If you look at all the N/A intakes they have 1 runner for each cylinder. Now onto the current engine, it would pull instantly. I thought it was the turbo lighting faster, but it wasn't. I figured that out in the last miles with that turbo, you could feel when the turbo hit if you did full pedal pulls. It was great, but it pulled very well until then...To conclude I would say if you have the option of building a long runner intake with specific volume plenum do it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Toby on September 17, 2013, 03:50:30 am
I need the HE 221w. I had 2 professionally rebuilt vw t3 hotside with a Mercedes t3 cold side. One let loose in 100 miles this one let loose in about 1,000 miles. The shaft snapped on the last one, the first one the nut came loose in the compressor wheel. Thanks for the offer.

I would sure talking to the "professional" that rebuilt the turbos. The only thing that should cause the nut on the turbine shaft to come off is if it wasn't tight to begin with. Any turbo that self destructs in 100 miles was FUBAR when you put it on as long as a foreign object did not get ingested. Were they both done by the same guy?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 17, 2013, 07:28:25 am
the nut only came loose the first time, the second the shaft just snapped, the second one had left handed threads.  i think the nut coming loose was just coincidental and caused by the turbine shaft bending and premature wear of the bearing allowing the compressor wheel to rub the compressor housing which loosened the nut.  don't know if lucas agrees, what do u think think lucas?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 17, 2013, 07:32:49 am
I need the HE 221w. I had 2 professionally rebuilt vw t3 hotside with a Mercedes t3 cold side. One let loose in 100 miles this one let loose in about 1,000 miles. The shaft snapped on the last one, the first one the nut came loose in the compressor wheel. Thanks for the offer.
I would sure talking to the "professional" that rebuilt the turbos. The only thing that should cause the nut on the turbine shaft to come off is if it wasn't tight to begin with. Any turbo that self destructs in 100 miles was FUBAR when you put it on as long as a foreign object did not get ingested. Were they both done by the same guy?

this was the problem
(https://www.facebook.com/ajax/mercury/attachments/photo.php?fbid=10202036950625280&mode=contain&width=468&height=468)

the turbo I had is the short unconnected red line and the rest are the he221w. it was overspeeding around 100,000 rpm at 18psi. if I ran 12psi or less it was ok. I was planning on running 29psi but it would not make more than 18psi it just ran out of air. When breaking the engine in I had it set somewhere around that 15-18 psi, after the first one went I set it back to 10psi. The first day I turned it back up the 2nd rebuild exploded. The rebuilder covered his work the first time and said he thought I needed a bov as it looked like the shaft was trying to spin backwards and if it failed in the same way he would not do a 2nd warranty. It failed in the same manner, but this time broke the shaft instead of unthreading the nut. What I think was happening was it was too much load when overspeeding and it pushed it up against the compressor housing. It was not his fault. I was experimenting and failed on the turbo. Everything else I have hit dead on with this engine. I just did not figure that the head would flow so much that the turbo would be suspect to that much overspeeding.
         The new turbos map goes SO much farther to the right and up that on a stock head it looks stable to 45psi. On mine I am hoping for 29 if I need it to cool the fuel down. It will be here soon and hopefully I can make a downpipe before it is time to kill bambi as when fall hits that is my life at that point.

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 17, 2013, 07:48:30 am
here is a link a friend of mine sent me when were talking about lucas blowing up turbos.

http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?72536-Four-turbos-gone-bad&p=1010220&viewfull=1#post1010220 (http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?72536-Four-turbos-gone-bad&p=1010220&viewfull=1#post1010220)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 17, 2013, 08:58:15 am
Very interesting. . .
I'm kinda surprised the turbo builder didn't suspect the over-rev possibility as I'm sure you mentioned the head and intake mods. Wouldn't the flow numbers the machine shop provided designate the size/capability if the turbo, or is it just "voodoo" engineering? It may sound silly but I wonder if a larger shaft would be possible.

Makes me wonder if my port job means I should lower my boost. I didn't remove the max but did take out quite a bit. It's a K14 with 360 bearing and was running 15 psi. The engine is an AAZ and the IP is Giles. I really don't want to loose my turbo. Hopefully I'll have it running in a few more months ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: srgtlord on September 17, 2013, 09:31:00 am
Hard to beleive one can create "too efficient" of an engine to the point where turbos blow up  :o
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 17, 2013, 09:43:34 am
I didn't have the flow numbers until I posted them here. The turbo was built last year and until it blew I had no clue on how to read maps...now I am getting it. The turbo rebuilder didn't know what I was doing really and didn't realize the size of the engine and mods. I told him what I wanted and he did it...now that it blew up and I have had time to talk to him he said the exhaust was way too small for that setup and that it wouldn't sustain the high boost I wanted. Now I know...

Also, I wouldn't worry too much on a K14. I don't quite understand it but if mine wasn't pushing 20lbs a minute it wouldn't have been as bad. If I was only pushing 10lbs/min it wouldn't have fought itself so bad from what others have told me. Also the 360 main bearing will help it if it does overspeed, as evidence in my round 2 lasted almost 1,000 miles compared to 100 with the standard 270 bearing. IMHO you will have instant max boost and to me it would be annoying, but you probably will run out of turbo at the upper rpm but it won't be over speeding that bad and you won't be moving that much air to worry about it. It is one of those things that on paper it can look one way but real life can be different so you will have to play with it. Also remember I have much bigger valves than the aaz does and more porting so yours will not flow near what mine did. Realize that my head flows more than the one in David Visard's article in the sticky section at the top of the page. It was different inches of mercury and what not but still I flow almost 150cm compared to the stock #s of approx. 100cfm.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 17, 2013, 09:47:23 am
Hard to beleive one can create "too efficient" of an engine to the point where turbos blow up  :o
It is the same thing as running a GT15 or K03 at 25psi...at some point the engine is too efficient for the turbo to perform and live a long time. Run it too fast and any turbo will blow up eventually. My turbo was just too small for the way the engine flowed. All the minds I have gathered on this say that the head is close to 100% volumetric efficiency, even at 90% it would have been a problem for that turbo.

But yes it is hard to believe that a 45 trim was too small for a vw 1.6, but it is for mine.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 17, 2013, 10:46:26 am
I think to blow them up so quick u must be moving 25+ lbs per min.  I dont think theres a way to convert the head flow numbers to what youre actually flowing since they are just a measurement of flow through the port at certain pressure differential and certain valve lift.  Ur definitely moving alot of air tho even with the stock cam haha.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Jetmugg on September 17, 2013, 11:55:48 am
I'm no expert on turbo selection, but just curious if you had an idea about how a Garrett GT2056 (non-VNT variety) would work on your 1.6, in terms of flow.

Steve.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 17, 2013, 12:02:54 pm
gt2056 is available in a few different trims, but the map i have seen for it shows it is a great turbo for performance, it flows around 28 lbs a min, and its efficiency islands go well over 30psi.  that doesn't necessarily mean u can run 30 psi, like in themans case the compressor was very capable of running over 18psi, but not at the amount of flow he was able to create.  gt2056 is a great turbo for a 1.6
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Rock3tman on September 17, 2013, 12:53:06 pm
I was wondering, with such a great 1.6 IDI build - if you had considered the more modern solution of a VNT-17 or VNT-20 (whichever flows what you need within their rpm range)?   Libbydiesel has proven a great mechanical vane control scheme that looks like you could implement with a bracket welded to your intake plenum + a bellcrank, adjustable rods, etc., to actuate the vanes from the IP throttle arm.   At full throttle, increasing VNT boost would progressively open the vanes to reduce drive pressure and help control the turbocharger's shaft speed in a more linear fashion vs. a wastegate setup that has both a MBC spring and a spring at the wastegate that seems would be harder to control progressively.

I guess bottom mount ALH-style integral would interfere with MK2 engine mount, but attached is a photo of a VNT-20 top mounted (either could be mounted this way):
  
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 17, 2013, 02:21:41 pm
 I can answer that since it had alot to do with me ;D


The idea was to build this hybrid turbo which bolts on like factory and uses the manifold, down pipe and oil lines that he already had.  While on paper it should have been good for 200hp in reality it exploded.
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 17, 2013, 05:27:05 pm
Yep. What rabbit jockey said. I would do a vnt if I had a lazy way to control the vanes. I make an engine mount bracket *currently one on my car* that anyone can mount a VNT from an ALH onto our 1.6 engine. So that is not an issue for a low mounted turbo. Just the fact that I haven't made a fool proof lazy way to do it. I finally got my head around Libby's design and it is too much for me to do right now.

Also, I think that the ALH VNT 15 xx no matter which one is too small for what I would like to do.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 24, 2013, 08:03:36 am
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05831_zps7ece8c59.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05831_zps7ece8c59.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05832_zpsd575bee2.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05832_zpsd575bee2.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05834_zpsf4535160.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05834_zpsf4535160.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05833_zps49e3e1ea.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05833_zps49e3e1ea.jpg.html)

I have about all I can do until the turbo shows up. I tracked it and it is in New York in customs. Should be here by the weekend I hope.

I am showing you the V bands are welded on and the manifold is ported with some clear shots to the turbo inlet...for the performance impaired.

I tried to take as little out of the cast manifold as possible, as I did not want to add any volume to it at all. I did cut some so that the longest port wouldn't have to go around a bump to get to the turbo. The ports are only gasket matched, the inner radius is smoothed a little, and the inside of the entire ports were sanded with 100 grit.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 24, 2013, 07:39:33 pm

September 24, 2013, 6:23 pm
 

WARRENDALE, PA 15086
 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on September 24, 2013, 07:52:14 pm
DAmn, What manifold is that? A t25?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 24, 2013, 08:23:35 pm
Yes mr. 8v I should have told more story. This is a cast iron 8v manifold with a T25 inlet flange and the TD04 downpipe flange. There are also 3 U bends to make the 3" downpipe with, I think 5.5" radius. I bought that turbo from Alcaid. I am hoping for soon and it looks like this :D



(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/354_zps9c8d6af6.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/358_zps441de71f.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/357_zpsfeb8bb9f.jpg)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 25, 2013, 01:41:39 am
We just test drove one of those turbos yesterday @ 38 psi on a 1.6TD (ported 1.6 head with 1.9TD intake valves, 11mm Dieselmeken pump, governor modded, watercooled IC, h-beam rods, girdle). You will not be disappointed ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: bbob203 on September 25, 2013, 10:03:59 am
how do you think it would do on a stock internal mtdi 1z w/ .216 injectors 12mm pump pd intake and 2.5 fmic?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 25, 2013, 10:41:34 am
how do you think it would do on a stock internal mtdi 1z w/ .216 injectors 12mm pump pd intake and 2.5 fmic?

Why so small injectors?

Even the smaller HE211W/HE200WG would be enough turbo to make your stock rods feel worried. You need less air on a TDI to get the same HP numbers compared to a IDI due to better BSFC. The HE211W flows 31lbs/min and on a 1.9TDI that's 240-250bhp (210-220whp?) Depending on your needs and goals but I wouldn't go bigger than that with stock bottom end and also considering the lower usable RPM range of the TDI, no need to put on a bigger turbo than needed.

Not a billet comp wheel on those, neither a ported shroud compressor housing, but no need for a billet wheel as you will not be running as sick high boost as we do on the IDIs to swallow all the air. Compressor efficiency is higher, it's a more compact turbo and price is slightly cheaper ;)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1499906/Mk4%20TDI%204motion/IMG_0147.JPG)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1499906/Mk4%20TDI%204motion/IMG_0150.JPG)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: bbob203 on September 25, 2013, 11:59:55 am
Pm'ing you so we dont mess up the mans thread.  ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 25, 2013, 04:44:50 pm
An adapterplate might work on a stock 1.6TD manifold, as it's a very compact turbo. The turbo uses a standard T25 flange. Downpipe flange is a MHI TD04 design. I have made CAD drawings for both flanges if you'd like to cut them yourself or get it done locally. Oil feed is M10x1.25 thread (Garretts are M10x1.00), oil drain is 38mm bolt-bolt oil drain as used on many Garrett and MHI turbos. details here:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/HE221W%20connections_zps96d02f41.jpg)

Don't have any parts already made to go with it, It's a brand spankin' new and unused turbo
Good news is the turbo is here. Bad is the exhaust flange that I bought for the downpipe which is a TD04 is NOT the same as what is on this turbo. I think it is a T25 or T3, definitely way bigger than the TD04 and now I am set back an entire week as nothing will ship fast enough and this is the piece that I have to fit the downpipe to. The rest of it could be ready but no downpipe. If anyone knows what flange I need tell me ASAP as I need to get it coming rush.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 26, 2013, 03:58:00 pm
Man, that sucks! :( I have a CAD drawing I made of the flange if you have a water- or laser cutting company in your area?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 26, 2013, 04:06:59 pm
There's one here at least, but shipping from Japan :(

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Flange-Gasket-TRUSTs-GREDDYs-TD04H-15G-19T-Dump-/271285064745
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 26, 2013, 08:02:46 pm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140791268625?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I bought this and it was wrong. It says TDO4H in the title, looks like the flange on the turbo, but it is not. Since I want to murder small woodland creatures archery style is to get this done as soon as possible. My solution was to take it to the amish machinist 4 miles up the road. I told him what to do to some 1/2" plate so I can weld a v band on it. I told him to have it done by tomorrow night the 27th of sept. He said OK. That will cost me but might not be as much as the one piece I bought already and I am returning that piece so I am only getting hosed on the shipping. I wanted to have a downpipe tacked together by Saturday but it is not looking like it at all.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury on September 26, 2013, 10:16:25 pm
I wanted to have a downpipe tacked together by Saturday but it is not looking like it at all.

Not with that negative attitude ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 27, 2013, 12:44:21 am
he wanted to tig it sunday....

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/4066559349.html

look what we all missed...

Quote
Gruman Kubvan - $750 (Cleveland)
image 1image 2
I am listing a 1983 Gruman Kubvan for a friend. It has a diesel motor not sure if it runs. 4 speed stick shift. Van needs some work but price is right. Thanks


Posted: 2013-09-14, 7:25AM EDT
Gruman Kubvan - $750 (Cleveland)
image 1image 2
I am listing a 1983 Gruman Kubvan for a friend. It has a diesel motor not sure if it runs. 4 speed stick shift. Van needs some work but price is right. Thanks

    Location: Cleveland


scrap aluinum worth in value.........................
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 27, 2013, 10:24:37 pm
Got the flange from the machinist so I will be trying it tomorrow. I tacked the v band on it tonight and got some other stuff done, but this is where I could have had it almost ready to fit stuff to the car if the flange were correct to begin with.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 30, 2013, 08:58:48 pm
I have about 18 hours in it so far on the new turbo making it work process...not close yet.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 01, 2013, 08:27:54 pm
20+ hours...if it fits I will have a few more welds then on to the intake.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05835_zps81fb6198.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05835_zps81fb6198.jpg.html)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on October 01, 2013, 08:44:37 pm
It'll fit.
Cheer up - youre almost there.
This thing is gonna rock
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 01, 2013, 08:48:44 pm
20+ hours...if it fits I will have a few more welds then on to the intake.
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05835_zps81fb6198.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05835_zps81fb6198.jpg.html)
You can tell by my typing I am not the happiest right now? I am not. I just want to be done.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: vwroadkill on October 01, 2013, 09:35:26 pm
your doing great... I have that same work lamp..lol but better beer... Yingling Premium.. and some Shrinerbock... keep up the good work.
and thank you for the advise...
Dan
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 01, 2013, 09:41:07 pm
pfff, better beer? Yuenling heavy is the "cheap" beer I have occasionally. I have 5 or so in the fridge. This was a celebration moment so no skimping with the cheap stuff. Stella is an acquired taste, but once on you cannot kick it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: vwroadkill on October 01, 2013, 10:53:54 pm
beer..love it... its what keeps VW's together. I should send you some shinerbock.. and yes Stella is an acquired taste.. had it for over a year living in Belgium..
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on October 02, 2013, 01:52:29 pm
When that turbo hits full boost you will forget all about the work to get you there, I promise :) It's pretty similar to women giving birth...  :P
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 02, 2013, 08:46:37 pm
I hope. I didn't touch it tonight. I had to mow the lawn. I haven't mowed in 3 weeks and only once last month. We almost lost the middle child getting on the school bus the other day.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on October 03, 2013, 12:23:17 am
Ya, Lucas.....get back to giving that turbo the "Lamaze" treatment........
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 03, 2013, 08:33:44 pm
Hard part is done, now I need to start on the intake and clocking the turbo center section.

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05838_zpsf70bf187.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05838_zpsf70bf187.jpg.html)


It is going from that into a butt joint band clamp that lines up perfectly with the exhaust that is existing.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on October 03, 2013, 08:42:44 pm
Good move sir - get the hard stuff done first ;)
It's all downhill after that.

Cheers
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 03, 2013, 09:47:34 pm
I need to buy a pair of really big snap ring pliers to clock the intake side. So maybe not hard but it will all take time. Big maybe for this weekend.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on October 03, 2013, 10:39:12 pm
Looking good; going to have to do any turbo oil line modding?

Also to get it out of the way; lol butt joint.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 04, 2013, 08:40:12 am
I am going to mod the oil drain but not much. I had custom oil lines from way back on the K24. Since they are JIC I just needed to get an M10-1.0 to JIC 4 connector and thread it into the turbo. The oil drain will be the same one I had but cut shorter and it is JIC 10.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Jetmugg on October 04, 2013, 03:50:49 pm
Looking Good ;D

I'm going to be very interested to see how that HE221W performs for you.  I think I might have turbo envy.

The downpipe looks good.  That's a very similar approach that I used to get the exhaust away from my GT2056.  Time consuming!

Steve.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 04, 2013, 08:17:43 pm
If I had a lift to get under the car easier and all the tools right there at the car I bet I could have shaved 1/2 the time. As it is, the car is parked in the side yard and all the grinders etc are in the shed. So only about 753 times under the car, out from under the car, into the shed, back out of the shed.

I painted it tonight and have some intake piping cut. I am going to put my other oil pan on it while it is down. I also am making an air box for the cone filter so that it pulls air more from the headlight and fender than the engine compartment.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on October 06, 2013, 10:48:14 pm
So is it done yet?  I really wanna see the new snail on the car!
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 07, 2013, 04:29:15 pm
No I did not get much done productive. I got to a bad spot yesterday and gave up for a bit.
Title: Re:
Post by: theman53 on October 14, 2013, 08:08:33 am
It is running. 50 miles on it yesterday. I didn't go full pedal as I liked just having it on the road and want it to last throughout winter if no one buys it.
Initially I think it doesn't run as good as it did with the t3. This is only for the partial pedal input. I don't care as long as it stays together. It runs good don't get me wrong but the last turbo had more at less boost. I have only made 17 psi and about 1/2 pedal. I bet it will be much more of an on off switch for the power and it will have tons more than the t3. We will see if I can't sell it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on October 20, 2013, 11:09:01 pm
Good to hear it's back to running status.  I think the old T3 gave a better feeling at lower boost because it was more of a restriction and was spooling up faster as a result.  I'm pretty sure it will feel better after you put more right foot into it.  And don't forget that now the exhaust side is less of a restriction that you might be able to squeeze more boost into it and not have it overspeed.
Title: Re:
Post by: theman53 on October 21, 2013, 08:54:11 am
I don't know what it is. The power is smoother than it ever has been. It is different from all the other turbos in the car I have had in it. It starts spooling right away and I can hear the boost going through the ported shroud until about 5 psi. Then it doesn't have the sound anymore and builds boost faster. So far I have been giving it about 1/2 pedal and it will only make 15psi or so. Just wanting to make it last a bit. Also from my lowered compression it has a miss in these colder temps. Fires instantly but misses until it warms or is revved up a couple times. Sad thing is the "colder" temps so far have been only around 40f. Only on the first cold start so not bad.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: bbob203 on October 21, 2013, 09:47:40 am
I think you just gotta mash it to the floor. Then you will know for sure if it was all worth it or if the car needs to go.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on October 21, 2013, 10:23:28 am
No need to save that turbo! It's made to do 30-35psi all day long in OEM applications and at much higher duty cycles than you would ever see in a passenger car (maybe on a track you would be close). Stop being a whimp ;) and crack it up to AT LEAST 30psi ;D Did you get it VSR balanced after you loosened the comp wheel nut?
Title: Re: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: One_punchmachinegun on October 21, 2013, 10:25:14 am
I think you just gotta mash it to the floor. Then you will know for sure if it was all worth it or if the car needs to go.
This^
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 21, 2013, 11:21:59 am
i have been trying to get him to floor it since the day he got the car back together, and it hasn't worked...

i think hes concerned about anything breaking not just the turbo.  1.6 is pretty sturdy engine, biggest concern is precups imo.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on October 21, 2013, 11:48:13 am
i have been trying to get him to floor it since the day he got the car back together, and it hasn't worked...

i think hes concerned about anything breaking not just the turbo.  1.6 is pretty sturdy engine, biggest concern is precups imo.

He's dead set on getting rid of the car; he doesn't want to grenade it again.  I'd love to see him post an account on WOT, but I don't think he will.  I'm sure right now he'd rather devote time to the VW diesel jeep project that he also has.  We all have our own priorities.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 21, 2013, 12:01:36 pm
i have been trying to get him to floor it since the day he got the car back together, and it hasn't worked...

i think hes concerned about anything breaking not just the turbo.  1.6 is pretty sturdy engine, biggest concern is precups imo.

He's dead set on getting rid of the car; he doesn't want to grenade it again.  I'd love to see him post an account on WOT, but I don't think he will.  I'm sure right now he'd rather devote time to the VW diesel jeep project that he also has.  We all have our own priorities.

well hes also got firewood to chop and animals to kill.  i don't blame him im sure he also hasplenty of other things to keep him busy, but i mean come on!!!!!  atleast do it onced.
Title: Re:
Post by: theman53 on October 21, 2013, 02:50:19 pm
Someday I will. Maybe come spring when jetmugg is coming to Ohio for the mile race I will drive down and give it a wot pass.
I took the turbo to the rebuilder and had it balanced the next day. Cost me 45.00. Would have been 50.00 but I only had 45 on me.
I am afraid of the car breaking something at any given time. It has left me on the side if the road several times and I am trying to enjoy driving it...it is better than fixing and 20+ hours making a turbo setup. I will post pics when I get my computer back as it won't let me from the phone. I think I have some pretty good ideas in it that others could copy. The air box is one that is just shy of outstanding IMHO
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on October 21, 2013, 04:46:08 pm
Come on!!!!!! Alteast if it breaks u wont have to pay insurance on it haha
Title: Re:
Post by: theman53 on October 21, 2013, 05:22:43 pm
It is cheaper for me not to drop the insurance... stupid ways things work. It has had insurance on it for the last 3 years running or not. Also I had a tree top fall on it. It did not do anything to it but my comp would have made me happy if it did.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 23, 2013, 08:33:17 am
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05839_zpsa189344a.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05839_zpsa189344a.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05840_zps640b2ef4.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05840_zps640b2ef4.jpg.html)

(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05841_zps3d649cf3.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/mk2%20engine%202/DSC05841_zps3d649cf3.jpg.html)

Here is what it looks like. It is quite the time consuming project to retro fit it with all the existing crap I had. I have the air box made of Lexan. It is NOT 100% air tight but I would say it is keeping 90% of the hot engine compartment air out of the turbo. I think people that just add a cone filter aren't gaining much if anything if they do not try to do something. What I made is 100% removable and stock airbox could go back in. I have a "trap door" held with push in earplugs that I sell so I can get the filter out. It is pulling most of the air out of the stock fender location but it is also pulling the air from the headlight as well. You cannot tell but my filter is a genuine K&N that has a Uni prefilter on it. We have ran this combination in Late Model dirt track and MX racing for years. All of the machinists that have had our old engines say "whatever you are doing keep doing it. Your engines have the least amount of scoring and contaminant wear of all that I rebuild." We never told others our secret :D but I will share here.

I am going to add the other piece of my strut brace sometime I feel like working on it again. I need to do some alignment stuff soon if I am going to drive it much.
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: One_punchmachinegun on October 23, 2013, 09:46:32 am
Chopping wood now!!? I hope that wood was down for a little while. Wet wood is not fun to burn.
Is it Ohio the state that started the 24 month coyote season? Not that you would really eat one..
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 23, 2013, 09:51:04 am
All of it has been down since August of 12, so it is good to go.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: ORCoaster on October 23, 2013, 01:37:31 pm
What is the gizmo that is on the fender that the fuel line attaches to?  What does it do?  Vacuum gauge sender?  Prefilter, I am curious what and why. 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: vanbcguy on October 23, 2013, 02:13:18 pm
What is the gizmo that is on the fender that the fuel line attaches to?  What does it do?  Vacuum gauge sender?  Prefilter, I am curious what and why.  

Lift pump!

http://www.facet-purolator.com/cube-fuel-pumps.php

I'm thinking of going for one of those too.  The IP can continue pulling fuel through them if they fail as long as you don't get one of the ones with a positive fuel shutoff.  I like the 40107 personally... 38GPH, 7-10PSI so low enough to not mess up the IP, 12" dry lift.  About $45...    Or there's the 40299, it is 12-15 PSI and rated for 50 GPH four about $65.  I've heard anything more than 15 PSI can blow out the front seal on the VE injection pumps though.

http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php?clickkey=1002061
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 23, 2013, 07:18:05 pm
Yes I have the one that is 4-7 psi and they will pull through them if they fail. I have heard of bad reports from some and good reports from others of running them. I have had them on my old rabbits before I was on this board and didn't have an issue. The one on my gold rabbit did fail and it pulled just fine through it until I took it off. The dieselmakken says over 5psi it will cause too much advance all the time and melt your engine or something, Giles said that BYM and him put 40 psi to one *didn't blow the front seal either, but it was just a test* and hooked it up to his test bench and said there was no change in the results. Giles claimed since the pressure was acting on both sides it didn't make more differential so all was well. I think our pumps return and insane amount like 40GPH and the car uses some too, so if you do go that route plan for it.

It is on mine so you know where I stand, but I will not endorse or not endorse it for someone else's ride. I don't know the long term effects of what could happen if Dieselmakken is correct and wouldn't want to be the one to steer you wrong if so.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on October 23, 2013, 08:37:32 pm
I recently assembled a 1.6TD injection pump (taken completely to bits) that would not run after I primed the pump using an outboard primer bulb.  I then temporarily added a lift pump and it started running just fine.  I then removed the lift pump and it ran fine after that.  I believe that the vanes of the vane pump were not shooting out from the centrifugal force of the starter cranking but once it revved up the added rpms got the vane pump working fine.  The internal pressure is fine and so the vane pump is working properly now, it just needed a jump start. 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: ORCoaster on October 23, 2013, 11:56:46 pm
Thanks, I feel so DOH!

Must have been a bad day in the office again.  Both Brain cells took the night off.  I thought about throwing one on the Rabbit just to make the refill on the IP easy and not have to fool around with breaking the nuts loose and such when I remove the pump all the time. 

I might have an issue as that part of the fender contains the two WVO filters and one heater along with coolant hoses for the FPHE prior to the IP.  Just a tad more crowded than a plastic box and a filter. 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on October 24, 2013, 07:09:37 am
Cummins says
Quote
Here is the fuel pressure requirements for a 1st Generation Dodge Cummins with a VE injection pump.

Maximum Inlet restriction ............................... 4 In Hg

Maximum Return line Restriction ................ 20.4 In Hg

Maximum pressure drop across fuel filter ............ 5 PSI

Maximum pressure at the injection pump .......... 10 PSI

Minimum pressure at the injection pump ............. 3 PSI

Volume of fuel pumped in 30 seconds ........ 0.79 Quarts
But most of the truck guys seem to  think you can run  15 to 18 PSI  before you have to retain the seal with locktite or magic.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 24, 2013, 09:27:52 am
Dieselmakken was saying for a TDI the pressure isn't an issue but for the IDI he was saying if you went over 7 or so PSI the advance would be full on always and melt the engine down. I didn't get it so I am not the best to be explaining, but it was in TurboJ's thread of the 200hp jetta project or something along those lines. The way he was making it sound was almost like when a gasser engine has pre detonation ???
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on October 24, 2013, 10:38:23 am
The dynamic advance movement depends on the pressure differential between the pump inlet and the internal pump pressure after the regulator.  If memory serves, when Tyler was working with Giles, he did some testing at the bench using lift pumps.  He showed that the lift pump does *not* affect the dynamic advance but rather any added pressure at the pump inlet also passes over to the internal pressure so that the differential remains the same.  In other words, if you add 7psi to the pump inlet then the internal pressure also rises the same 7psi and so the differential is the same resulting in the same dynamic advance movement.  The only issue with increased inlet pressure is that the added pressure could be enough to cause a pump to leak.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 24, 2013, 10:46:08 am
Yes, you are correct Libby, but Dieselmakken still said otherwise. I have no test bench or enough knowledge to accurately say who is correct. I personally think as you described as I am running one, but that Dieselmakken guy I am sure has good reason for saying it does effect it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on October 24, 2013, 12:01:15 pm
We've seen problems running 15psi feed pump, regulated down the pressure and all was good again so there is something to it.
Title: Re:
Post by: theman53 on October 24, 2013, 12:10:00 pm
What problems? I am just wondering. Mine is not near 15 and I don't have any issues but want to know what to look for.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on October 24, 2013, 08:06:10 pm
Yes, what is the GPH and pressure you are running your setup at Alcaid?  I'm looking at the Facet 40106 or Carter P60430 myself as their pressures only go around 6-7 PSI, but I wonder if 30-32 GPH is enough for my setup. 
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on October 25, 2013, 03:21:35 am
15psi 100GPH ;)

Problem was sudden loss of power, pump didn't behave correctly until pressure was regulated down
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Toby on October 25, 2013, 06:53:01 am
Yes I have the one that is 4-7 psi and they will pull through them if they fail.

Well that,s good since the failure rate on them is 100% over a couple of years.  Of the 2 dozen or so that I have owned or passed through my hands, every stinking one has failed. I had one replaced under warranty 6 times.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 31, 2013, 07:50:55 am
It is still working. I will need to get some more pictures soon, but I have been busy.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on October 31, 2013, 08:38:22 am
So when will you start to use it properly? ;)
Title: Re:
Post by: theman53 on October 31, 2013, 01:55:01 pm
Too much invested time to talk much about it. I have been using it properly as it is still running. I am trying to find the duty cycle of the turbo before doing what I would like to it. As a high performance daily I want to run the boost up to full boost most all the time. If this thing doesn't like it I want to know before I do that.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on October 31, 2013, 08:45:42 pm
Cool man, just keep us abreast of duty cycle experiments, and when you have found the sweet spot of the turbo.  Like a said before, even without the turbo, that engine is a nice piece of engineering.  I might eventually be temped/forced you go your way with my turbo selection, due to our setups' similarities, so I'll be watching intently!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on November 01, 2013, 01:30:59 am
These turbos comes from small trucks, that means running high boost all the time. You will never be close to that if you even tried. Then you should worry more about the police than if the turbo takes it. This is built for it and is not going to self destruct like badly matched T3 hybrids
Title: Re:
Post by: theman53 on November 01, 2013, 06:45:33 am
That is all relative to me. What is high boost? 33psi, 40psi, 53psi? I am trying to find someone who says I am running this at 40 psi peak but 35psi all day long with 0 issues, at the track, for the last 8 years... or something like that. Or if holset  had a paper stating if you are in the 70% island of the map or better than that, then you can boost it 100% of the time.
I like the turbo but until I have 10,000 miles or more I can't endorse it on the forum. I would hate for someone else to have this kind of money invested and it not be the perfect fit or not last as it is supposed to.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on November 01, 2013, 10:49:02 am
These turbochargers are fairly new, at least the version you are running (new this year I believe) so you won't find anyone that has run one for 8 years. The HE221W has stock wastegate pressures of up to 41.7psi, that one is in a generator so that means full boost for hours/days straight!

Here is a paper Holset wrote on their MFS compressor wheels and why they made it, exactly because of high boost applications: http://www.turbo.com.sg/e-news/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20Technical%20Bulletin%20Q2%20_8_.pdf

Believe me, we have really tried destroying these and have had no luck yet, running up to and slightly beyond 43.5psi of boost.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on November 08, 2013, 04:10:01 am
We dynoed a 1.6TD with the the same HE221W version as you have (the smaller version) yesterday

204whp @ 45 psi, Some pump issues, starts to taper off fuel too early (5200rpm). and it is fueling too much at low rpms choking the engine somewhat. Still running stock cam. Should be some more whp in there. 1.6 head with AAZ intake valves and some porting. Your head (and mine) requires less boost as they flow better.

I would not recommend running this turbo at 45psi in the long run though even though it pulled all the way to 6000rpm without loosing a single 0.1psi of boost (not choking = more whp in there)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B2O9ThuWPU
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on November 08, 2013, 07:59:00 am
If I had a guess I would say I am right there too for the HP potential. I don't have enough fuel I don't think. What pump did he have that was doing that? Also I am glad he went with the 1.6 head as I think it has a better base shape than the 1.9 heads, but the valves are bigger in the 1.9. How ported or is his head stock?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: MJF on November 08, 2013, 08:39:48 am
Thumbs up, nice power! How about torque and dynosheet?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on November 08, 2013, 09:09:17 am
Thumbs up, nice power! How about torque and dynosheet?

Pump was not behaving correctly (11mm pump BTW), engine drowned in diesel and then all hell and boost broke loose at 4k RPM, resulting in 345Nm (254ft-lbs) at the wheels. Dyno operator forgot to save the best run for whatever reason, but there are plots from at least some 190whp runs where fueling was even drowning high RPM power. Haven't gotten hold of them yet as I had to go before the dyno session was over.
Title: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Rising on November 08, 2013, 07:47:33 pm
That is gorgeous alcaid! Id love to see that car in action. Is it yours or someone else's? Is there a build thread?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on November 09, 2013, 05:00:39 am
It is a friend of mines car, build thread is in Norwegian :P
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: MJF on November 09, 2013, 12:37:41 pm
Does not matter, would like to see anyway :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on November 10, 2013, 01:25:08 pm
Thumbs up, nice power! How about torque and dynosheet?

Pump was not behaving correctly (11mm pump BTW), engine drowned in diesel and then all hell and boost broke loose at 4k RPM, resulting in 345Nm (254ft-lbs) at the wheels. Dyno operator forgot to save the best run for whatever reason, but there are plots from at least some 190whp runs where fueling was even drowning high RPM power. Haven't gotten hold of them yet as I had to go before the dyno session was over.

curious to know what the pump was doing. I have never seen one drown in diesel. Also, what porting was done to the head?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on November 10, 2013, 04:19:21 pm
Does not matter, would like to see anyway :D

The project thread is on a locked part of a Norwegian forum, only for paying members :(

curious to know what the pump was doing. I have never seen one drown in diesel. Also, what porting was done to the head?

Engine studdered and shaked, then full power from 4000rpm, it is a maxed out custom 11mm pump so maybe a bit too agressive at lower RPMs but has not been like this on the road. It is a 1.6 head with 1.9/aaz intake valves. Ported but not flow tested unfortunately. Ported by a famous Norwegian head builder that has done a lot of crazy stuff before.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on November 11, 2013, 03:03:07 pm
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?27781-HE221-compressor-outlet-flanges
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on December 10, 2013, 08:43:58 pm
Been a while, actually 1 month since I started the car. Need to retime it as it is very clacky now that it is cold.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury! on December 11, 2013, 12:29:49 am
Are you going to use a timing gauge? Or rather, time it by ear? What is it set to now?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on December 11, 2013, 09:14:14 am
It is at 1.00mm now, I am using a gauge as I need to know where it is for repeatability. I am going to set it to .93mm ish. It is supposed to be in between .9mm and .95mm per giles, but that was for the standard 23:1 compression and I am about 17:1 or so by guessing with the volume I have in the precups, valves, and space above piston. Giles didn't have a spec for that. Apparently, if the rings are new then it fires right up and that is what I was worried about. Started without being plugged in at 16f but cranks slow. All signs to me say too much advance...that and I had to lose my 1000cca battery because the intercooler piping won't let it fit.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on January 04, 2014, 05:20:11 pm
I didn't get to time it, but I did fire it up and make a long run today. I changed the oil as it was due. I kind of hate all the extra oil with the cooler and lines as it is a 6 quart oil change when it is all done.
FWIW the noise from the injection I didn't notice near as bad today. It was around 11f when I started and it was progressively getting warmer all day. I still want to re time to .93mm or so and see how it does.

The most amazing thing is it started this cold out sitting since Nov. 11th with no block heater with all the reduced compression. It didn't like running and I had to give it 1/4 pedal to idle, but it lit the 3rd hit and kept running. I am impressed with that.

The thing that sucks is with the all seasons on it and all the grunt it has driving in the snow was almost suicidal.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: bbob203 on January 04, 2014, 06:05:44 pm
Could you elaborate on the amount of fabrication you did on you turbo?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on January 04, 2014, 07:17:38 pm
look on page 24 to start, I showed pics of what I did.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on January 04, 2014, 07:38:24 pm
I didn't get to time it, but I did fire it up and make a long run today. I changed the oil as it was due. I kind of hate all the extra oil with the cooler and lines as it is a 6 quart oil change when it is all done.
FWIW the noise from the injection I didn't notice near as bad today. It was around 11f when I started and it was progressively getting warmer all day. I still want to re time to .93mm or so and see how it does.

The most amazing thing is it started this cold out sitting since Nov. 11th with no block heater with all the reduced compression. It didn't like running and I had to give it 1/4 pedal to idle, but it lit the 3rd hit and kept running. I am impressed with that.

The thing that sucks is with the all seasons on it and all the grunt it has driving in the snow was almost suicidal.

Glad to hear it's running well. What's the trick to getting the oil in the cooler to drain? I have one now (my first) and I hadn't thought about that.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury! on January 04, 2014, 08:57:06 pm
Glad to hear it's running well. What's the trick to getting the oil in the cooler to drain? I have one now (my first) and I hadn't thought about that.

Either blowing it through, not worrying about it.. or making sure you mounted it so the lines are always downward to drain back.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury! on January 04, 2014, 09:14:19 pm
I still want to re time to .93mm or so and see how it does.

It didn't like running and I had to give it 1/4 pedal to idle, but it lit the 3rd hit and kept running.

If it is already having cold running issues, retarding the timing that far will likely make it much worse. Try less at a time.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on January 05, 2014, 09:39:53 am
As much as I messed with this thing I really thing the extra advance is too much. I think it is fighting the piston coming up. After 10 seconds or so at 1/4 pedal it would idle on its own, but it was still rough idle. 11f was what it was when I started it, but it was around 0f overnight so everything was pretty cold. I really thought that it wouldn't start with the lower compression, but with the one key turn and the 3rd hit it was lit. I still want to shoot for .93 but if I hit .95 that is probably where it will stay.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Formerfreeagent on January 19, 2014, 11:15:46 pm
Awesome build I have been picking through it pretty closely and am very impressed. Did you ever elaborate on what special magic you poured into the head? I just picked up a 1Y that is gonna find its home in my caddy and I'm looking to do a build and I'm trying to find some basis on what we can really get these heads to flow.

Please dear god don't sell this!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on January 20, 2014, 01:56:13 am
I've always been really astounded that there was no comments on the head. Look very closely at the photos....if they are all still up. There are things to see that I don't think anyone ever asked about.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury! on January 20, 2014, 02:01:23 am
I've always been really astounded that there was no comments on the head. Look very closely at the photos....if they are all still up. There are things to see that I don't think anyone ever asked about.

good or bad?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on January 20, 2014, 08:28:39 am
Awesome build I have been picking through it pretty closely and am very impressed. Did you ever elaborate on what special magic you poured into the head? I just picked up a 1Y that is gonna find its home in my caddy and I'm looking to do a build and I'm trying to find some basis on what we can really get these heads to flow.

Please dear god don't sell this!
I think page9-13 have some pictures and the first page's comment have some of the info. No secret really other than if you want to burn more fuel, you need more air in, to get more air in you need to get the burnt stuff out, all as fast as possible. Porting isn't as big as it will go, it is all about velocity of the air charge. With the intake I made and the porting of the head the idea is that as the intake valve is closing and the piston is still coming up, I am still filling the cylinder with air. Hopefully the entire time the intake valve is open. It has lowered the EGT a bunch and it has a hotter pump than the last version, so I know what I have done has worked. I am sure the lowered compression didn't hurt it either, but the main deal is the valves/intake/porting.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on January 20, 2014, 08:38:57 am
and modified swirl chambers with that extra piece holding them in place.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on January 20, 2014, 09:22:22 am
and modified swirl chambers with that extra piece holding them in place.
lowered compression :D

The extra stuff won't help it run any better, just hope it holds together.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on February 11, 2014, 09:11:19 pm
Can't wait until spring. The car is not drivable in the snow even with snows on. Once the Jeep project is done and funded I will hopefully be opening this up and seeing what it can do...AKA breaking it again.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: bbob203 on February 12, 2014, 09:14:08 am
Can't wait until spring. The car is not drivable in the snow even with snows on. Once the Jeep project is done and funded I will hopefully be opening this up and seeing what it can do...AKA breaking it again.

Don't cast those spells!! Your gonna rip it up! ;D(in a good way) I need to stop by sometime and check it out.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on February 12, 2014, 09:25:35 am
It is under 12" of snow right now. I like driving it and I cannot believe that it starts so well in the cold, but it is a non snow vehicle if possible. I think the engine will last fairly well this time as I have it underfueled, as I bet it could handle a much bigger pump. I just don't think the rest of the car especially the drive line will like it if I get into it all the time.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on February 15, 2014, 01:39:19 am
Oh man...I just went back to the original build thread and saw that "frisbeed" Prothe piston. I laughed so hard I got incontinent!

That cylinder was sort of cooooo the way you made a Detroit 2-stroke diesel system of ports! You REALLY should have filed for a patent on the process.

(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/Dakotakid1/giphy_zps9b8e8cc0.gif)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on February 15, 2014, 06:51:14 am
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/151/0fd56f8bc7c249d585e8d514c22467b4/l.jpg)

that guy? Proof I was trying LOL
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on March 04, 2014, 09:07:11 pm
Oh man...I just went back to the original build thread and saw that "frisbeed" Prothe piston. I laughed so hard I got incontinent!

That cylinder was sort of cooooo the way you made a Detroit 2-stroke diesel system of ports! You REALLY should have filed for a patent on the process.

(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/Dakotakid1/giphy_zps9b8e8cc0.gif)

Love this guy...


So I was going to take a trip in the MK2 this weekend to cheer me up. Started the car and warmed it up. With all the freezing and snow and sun the car sunk into the ground some and there was just enough ice I couldn't move it. Shut it down and I am waiting for a better day.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on March 04, 2014, 10:57:42 pm
Oh man...I just went back to the original build thread and saw that "frisbeed" Prothe piston. I laughed so hard I got incontinent!

That cylinder was sort of cooooo the way you made a Detroit 2-stroke diesel system of ports! You REALLY should have filed for a patent on the process.

(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/Dakotakid1/giphy_zps9b8e8cc0.gif)

Love this guy...


So I was going to take a trip in the MK2 this weekend to cheer me up. Started the car and warmed it up. With all the freezing and snow and sun the car sunk into the ground some and there was just enough ice I couldn't move it. Shut it down and I am waiting for a better day.

Just around the corner. .
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on April 05, 2014, 06:59:43 pm
Drove the car Thursday night 3rd of april. It was fun. I only drove it 10 miles as it has sat for a long time and I need to get on the inner tie rod boots before I do much damage. It is boosting well and takes a while to heat up. I can see a ton more work in the future, but I think I have a reliable car with some power now.

Also, I replaced my old master cylinder right before the carnage of the last engine. Well it has always leaked and I had to add brake fluid again. Seems like the leak is worse than before. I hate not being able to get decent master cylinders.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on April 05, 2014, 08:39:27 pm
At least you drove it and had some fun. Glad to hear it starts well in the cold - even with the lowered compression.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on April 12, 2014, 06:30:33 pm
Drove it just now. It really builds boost under load, problem was I couldn't get it not to be loaded. My driver caliper or hose is not releasing pressure, sticking the brake, and tends to slow a guy down. More stuff to fix...
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on April 12, 2014, 09:37:53 pm
Maybe it just needs a good whack with a hammer (the caliper). I assume it spent the winter buried in snow?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on April 13, 2014, 09:48:55 pm
(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/s526x395/10261985_10202164108159297_2990878147982436501_n.jpg)

My midget is watching me.

I freed up the caliper and replaced the rack boots. Interesting enough I have a procedure to get the driver side on and it was easier than the passenger side. I bought a boot about 7 months ago. I stretched it over a spray paint style can and left it there until today. I put the boot on and it basically went right on. Used a hose clamp to secure. It took me about 3 hours to do the last one as I couldn't stretch it onto the rack, hence me prestretching this one  ;D It is a manual MKII rack if you were interested.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on April 13, 2014, 10:45:30 pm
She does look like a tiny you.
Smart move on the pre-stretching.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: srgtlord on April 13, 2014, 11:05:15 pm
I feel your pain for the manual rack boots... It took me 4 hours in total to put both sides on
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on April 14, 2014, 08:41:37 am
I feel your pain for the manual rack boots... It took me 4 hours in total to put both sides on
It took me about that long as I had to cut new threads on the outer tie rod end. I missed with the hammer, but the actual boots went on in under 1/2 hour :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 27, 2014, 09:29:31 pm
I did some full pedal runs over the holiday weekend. I was messing around close to home if something would break, but it held up. I honestly think now that I have ran it hard with this turbo that it will hold up for a good long while, with this pump. The head and turbo out flow all that this pump has to offer with the 10mm head and the aaz camplate that Giles put in. I still get some black smoke at full pedal, but the EGT are staying under 1,000F and this was on a 78f day. All in all I am happy with it now, finally....but I do have an 11mm rover pump in the basement  ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on May 28, 2014, 03:10:23 am
You would even be able to empty a fully built 11mm pump with that turbo, so just go ahead and do it ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 28, 2014, 07:29:51 am
You would even be able to empty a fully built 11mm pump with that turbo, so just go ahead and do it ;)
I like being able to use up what I have, but I also want this one to stay together. FWIW I believe that the older CY block is a ton tougher than the newer MF block I used to have. I have no evidence other than when drilling the head gasket holes with the exact same size, brand, and new bit the MF engine went in like butter, the CY took a long time. I still worry about the engine not holding together with all the pressures against it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on May 28, 2014, 08:22:23 am
The head work you did sounds like it's the ticket. Also, your turbo is a bit larger than my HE200. I can still hit 1300 on a long hard climb or getting on the freeway. I'm possibly a ton over your vehicle weight as well.
Congratulations on what seems to be a solid build - I'll bet it scoots!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on May 28, 2014, 11:03:34 am
More boost gives a higher AFR ratio and lower EGT so more boost can actually be a good thing :)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 28, 2014, 09:35:04 pm
More boost gives a higher AFR ratio and lower EGT so more boost can actually be a good thing :)
It will only boost to about 30 psi and comes down to 25psi if I stay in it hard. I think I don't have enough fuel for the flow of the head to do any more. I don't know if I could get any more out of the MBC either, but I don't hear the WG opening, so I think that isn't the limiting factor.

Yeah the boost is great. I built this engine to combat the high EGT of the last one and succeeded in every way. If it is flat and I just have to maintain speed of 55mph my EGT is around 400f with 1-2psi of boost. Full on the egt stay under 1000f. Even the oil temps stay cool rarely over 200f and the coolant is staying around 180f... I have the coolest T stat you can buy for these and the custom radiator that holds an extra gallon of coolant. I think the only way this one is coming undone is from all the cyl. pressure and the flex that all that entails.

BTW Alcaid, do you have another one of these turbos you could get me at the same price :D I think I will be selling the big VNT I have for my jeep project if you do.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on May 29, 2014, 01:59:25 am
Unfortunately the HE221W version you have has become unobtanium... The HE200WG is very close anyway with the exact same turbine wheel and also 5cm housing but different downpipe flange. Only cast compressor wheel though comparee to the billet you have now and slightly lower trim.

Remember turbos give you 20% more hp on a TDI vs. an IDI ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 29, 2014, 08:35:16 am
Is the HE200WG the same as the HE211? Honestly as fast as this one I have spools I wouldn't be afraid of a larger turbo for this IDI and sticking the one I have on the TDI...The biggest feature I like is the ported shroud, does the 200 have that? For that matter I know you can buy billet wheels for 100.00 or so, could the 200 be made into the 221w?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on May 29, 2014, 08:04:48 pm
Is the HE200WG the same as the HE211? Honestly as fast as this one I have spools I wouldn't be afraid of a larger turbo for this IDI and sticking the one I have on the TDI...The biggest feature I like is the ported shroud, does the 200 have that? For that matter I know you can buy billet wheels for 100.00 or so, could the 200 be made into the 221w?
I don't believe mine (HE200WG) has a ported shroud.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on May 30, 2014, 03:53:38 pm
HE200WG does not have a ported shroud and it will not surge so one is not needed. If surge isn't an issue compressor efficiency will be higher without it so it is actually better to not have it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 30, 2014, 06:52:12 pm
HE200WG does not have a ported shroud and it will not surge so one is not needed. If surge isn't an issue compressor efficiency will be higher without it so it is actually better to not have it.
Mine doesn't surge now, but I can tell a difference in the sound of the turbo at low RPM. Almost like if it wasn't ported it would want to surge. Love the little sucker, now I want another :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on May 31, 2014, 04:02:38 am
What engine is in your Jeep and what is the power goal?

I love these Holsets as well, that is why my build has two turbos ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 31, 2014, 08:54:39 am
What engine is in your Jeep and what is the power goal?

I love these Holsets as well, that is why my build has two turbos ;)
It will be a 1.9 M TDI ahu style. I would like it to have 275hp and as much torque as possible.


Pics of your build or it didn't happen :D
Title: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on May 31, 2014, 01:21:20 pm
275 HP is a lot! You are going to need some custom injectors for that. You're probably around the upper limits for an 11mm pump too. Monster!


Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 31, 2014, 01:37:51 pm
275 HP is a lot! You are going to need some custom injectors for that. You're probably around the upper limits for an 11mm pump too. Monster!


Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk


It shouldn't be too hard. The injectors red rotors sells should do it. I have a 2256v that I want to sell and get a holset instead, but it would be really pushing either one to get 275. I have a 12mm cummins pump as well as an 11mm rover pump, so I hope to be ok on fuel either way. Anything over 225hp I will be happy with I am sure, maybe even less. I haven't decided on rods just yet, but after looking at how tiny they are in comparison to the 1.6 rods they will definitely be needed.

If I can't get that out of the MTDI then I will put this 1.6 in it and run the TDI in the mk2. The 1.6 has plenty of grunt to move the jeep around believe it or not.
Title: Re:
Post by: vanbcguy on May 31, 2014, 01:51:38 pm
Yeah his .341s or whatever they are should do it. I have his .275s in mine. He didn't have any stock though when I was looking, just FYI. There is a shortage of nozzles larger than Race 520s right now in general.

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re:
Post by: Rising on May 31, 2014, 02:16:21 pm
Hey The Man, now that you are driving this beast and talking all about how sweet these holsets are, how about you throw a bone to us bench racers and shoot a video and an exhaust clip I'd love to see/hear this thing perform!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on May 31, 2014, 02:28:17 pm
275bhp or whp?

The HE200WG stops at 32lbs/min and turbine choke flow is a good match on a 1.9TDI up to the same flow level. That's 270bhp on a TDI so I would give that a go :) Those are 650USD, shipping and PayPal fees included, so not a lot of money for a whole lot of turbo ;)

My project? Slowly progressing: (there is a HE200WG and an external wastegate hidden down there somewhere)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/6EC03042-E1C8-48E9-BD05-C0F42D7BFFC8_zpszfrwbofh.jpg)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 31, 2014, 04:50:55 pm
275bhp or whp?

The HE200WG stops at 32lbs/min and turbine choke flow is a good match on a 1.9TDI up to the same flow level. That's 270bhp on a TDI so I would give that a go :) Those are 650USD, shipping and PayPal fees included, so not a lot of money for a whole lot of turbo ;)

My project? Slowly progressing: (there is a HE200WG and an external wastegate hidden down there somewhere)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/6EC03042-E1C8-48E9-BD05-C0F42D7BFFC8_zpszfrwbofh.jpg)
BHP...the drive line losses on the heep will be more than VW I am sure, but 200 at the wheels will be awesome I hope.
What are the 2 turbos you are working with. That doesn't look like the holset 200wg, looks a lot bigger. No more room for a rain tray :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 31, 2014, 05:26:33 pm
Hey The Man, now that you are driving this beast and talking all about how sweet these holsets are, how about you throw a bone to us bench racers and shoot a video and an exhaust clip I'd love to see/hear this thing perform!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



I have no way to hold a device and go. I could take a clip of it idling, but the turbo doesn't have too much to do with my sound. That comes from my valves and 3" exhaust.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on May 31, 2014, 05:39:39 pm
Turbo on top is a Holset HX30W with a 12cm turbine housing and a custom billet 73/50mm 11-blade extended tip compressor wheel ;)
Title: Re: Re: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Rising on May 31, 2014, 06:02:43 pm
Hey The Man, now that you are driving this beast and talking all about how sweet these holsets are, how about you throw a bone to us bench racers and shoot a video and an exhaust clip I'd love to see/hear this thing perform!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



I have no way to hold a device and go. I could take a clip of it idling, but the turbo doesn't have too much to do with my sound. That comes from my valves and 3" exhaust.

Bummer. Still interested in an exhaust video since yours is an extremely unique setup ;) it'd be at shame if possibly the best built 1.6 never got properly documented ;)

Can you time some performance stats or something? Give us layfolk an idea?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 8v-of-fury! on June 03, 2014, 02:58:26 am

Bummer. Still interested in an exhaust video since yours is an extremely unique setup ;) it'd be at shame if possibly the best built 1.6 never got properly documented ;)

Can you time some performance stats or something? Give us layfolk an idea?

I'm in for vids!!!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on June 19, 2014, 10:28:13 pm
I will get a video eventually. Been busy with a new job and I am putting a stereo into this thing. I used to be into car audio way back in the day and I still have some old junk that I am throwing into it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on June 20, 2014, 01:15:16 am
His car pulls SUBSTANTIALLY harder than my good-running 16 valve GTI, sets you well back into the seat at virtually any speed, and could probably destroy the cv joints in one afternoon. And.....is too dam-ned noisy.
Title: Re:
Post by: Renax on June 20, 2014, 05:01:11 am
There's no such thing as a Turbo diesel being too noisy!
NA diesels however, that makes some serious noise!



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Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: deepgrooves74 on July 16, 2014, 07:57:40 am

There's no such thing as a Turbo diesel being too noisy!
NA diesels however, that makes some serious noise!



Sent from my cheapchinaphone using Tapatalk

N/A prolly louder since it doesn't have the turbo acting as a muffler...

COME ON LUCAS!! Give us a vid please!!! Glad you have it running reliably now!
Title: Re: Re: Re:
Post by: Rising on July 16, 2014, 12:29:13 pm
There's no such thing as a Turbo diesel being too noisy!
NA diesels however, that makes some serious noise!



Sent from my cheapchinaphone using Tapatalk
Is it sad that that's one reason I want to install a turbo? So I can hear myself think again? Haha.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Jetmugg on July 16, 2014, 08:56:26 pm
Now I'm getting excited about building more power!!!

As it's configured right now, my 1.5L made 167 HP.  For the "next generation" build, I'd like to put it over 200HP, with some Alcaid-style turbo knowledge, Dieselmeken pump work, and some serious work on the cylinder head.

Alcaid - when the time comes, I'd really appreciate some help setting up a compound turbo arrangement.

Steve.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 16, 2014, 10:49:19 pm
I think a good old single holset would help you. And a bigger pump. You didn't really have much smoke, but you did have egt. I think if you got an 11mm or even a 12mm pump it would rock that thing, but then you need the holset to cool it off.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Jetmugg on July 17, 2014, 08:26:11 am
More fuel, more boost, and better flow through the head is my "mental path" to more power.

Whether it's a single turbo or compounds really doesn't matter to me.  I'm confident that I can get more fuel via a higher output pump. 

Right now, my focus is on getting everything I can out of the combination for SpeedWeek.  After that, the daydreaming and parts collecting can get back into swing.

Steve.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on July 17, 2014, 10:20:09 am
Always glad to help breaking records ;)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Jetmugg on July 17, 2014, 10:51:58 am
Always glad to help breaking records ;)

Check out this setup....  These guys appear to still be working on their entry as of last weekend - it's a chopped top Crosley truck with a 1.5L Renault diesel.  I have no idea how much power they can make, or how fast their truck might run, but nothing's going to be easy chasing this record...

http://0000pwy.rcomhost.com/

Alcaid - I encourage you to "think out loud" as if you were in my shoes.  If you wanted to build a 1.5L diesel engine to run in a land-speed-racing application, what would you do?

Steve.

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: 410 on July 17, 2014, 10:19:04 pm
Always glad to help breaking records ;)

Check out this setup....  These guys appear to still be working on their entry as of last weekend - it's a chopped top Crosley truck with a 1.5L Renault diesel.  I have no idea how much power they can make, or how fast their truck might run, but nothing's going to be easy chasing this record...

http://0000pwy.rcomhost.com/

Alcaid - I encourage you to "think out loud" as if you were in my shoes.  If you wanted to build a 1.5L diesel engine to run in a land-speed-racing application, what would you do?

Steve.


That is a sweet little Crosley pickup!  I think you have an edge Steve when it comes to aerodynamics and power.  Sorry for running your thread off topic Lucas.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 17, 2014, 10:47:23 pm
It is all good.

I think the aero advantage hopefully goes to the rampage. As well as where the power is. All the specs I could find on any of the small renualt diesels were that they were CDI and peak HP was @2000 rpm, so unless they have a weird trans they should have a hard time at the record speed.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 20, 2014, 09:29:33 pm
I might have a video and some sooty pics from this weekend. If the guy sends them to me.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on July 21, 2014, 04:53:42 am
It is all good.

I think the aero advantage hopefully goes to the rampage. As well as where the power is. All the specs I could find on any of the small renualt diesels were that they were CDI and peak HP was @2000 rpm, so unless they have a weird trans they should have a hard time at the record speed.

The Renault 1.5 DCI is a nice motor indeed for this racing class! They can be had with up to 110bhp stock, just over 130bhp with just a chiptune. The best part: it only runs a compression ratio of 15.2:1 :o Ready for some serious boost and fuel! ;)

Dyno before and after tune (crank numbers, not whp): http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/1.5%20dCi%20110bhp.pdf
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Jetmugg on July 21, 2014, 08:38:23 am
Can't wait to see the pics and video, Lucas.

I'm guilty of leading this thread off topic, but appreciate the dyno sheets for the 1.5, Alcaid!  Good stuff.

Steve.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 21, 2014, 09:20:37 am
i finally got to meet lucas and ride in this car this weekend.  It is very fast, definitely the fastest diesel vw i've been in.  Unfortunately we didn't find any good roads where he could really let the car stretch its legs, but once this thing hits 20psi find something to hold on to cause it's time to boogey!  all that and it never exceeds 800*f egt's!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Jetmugg on July 21, 2014, 09:32:22 am
The low EGT's are impressive!

Steve.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 21, 2014, 09:46:04 am
I need more pump. I turned it down a fuzz to see about more mileage on the trip, but I still only managed to get 41mpg. Even so the idle is controlled by the main screw. I am going to index it soon to see if I can get more out of it or not. Giles did good, but the turbo just cleans it up. EGT creeps up as the boost rockets up, when you hit about 7 to 10 psi the EGT start coming down. Faster spool would be nice, but for a non vnt and as big as it is, it spools ok.
Title: Re:
Post by: Rising on July 21, 2014, 10:15:26 am
Bring on the vids! That sounds so mean. I have trouble keeping my car below 1000 egts just on the way to work up small hills lol. To have all the power at low egts is very impressive. Certainly an important factor in the reliability of this engine build. Great work.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 21, 2014, 10:26:40 am
I need more pump. I turned it down a fuzz to see about more mileage on the trip, but I still only managed to get 41mpg. Even so the idle is controlled by the main screw. I am going to index it soon to see if I can get more out of it or not. Giles did good, but the turbo just cleans it up. EGT creeps up as the boost rockets up, when you hit about 7 to 10 psi the EGT start coming down. Faster spool would be nice, but for a non vnt and as big as it is, it spools ok.

i thought the spool up was very good, and with more fuel and egts it will be even better.  are you still considering putting the land rover pump on to see what happens?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 21, 2014, 10:29:46 am
I am thinking of putting the 11mm head of the rover pump on this body that Giles did. I don't know what will happen but I think the advance curve out of this pump and the aaz camplate will work better than the stock rover pump.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 21, 2014, 11:14:31 am
Just texted myke and he did not have video only pics. He will send them to me some day.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 24, 2014, 06:52:58 pm
(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/vw%20stuff%20or%20random%20shenanigans/P1060455Large_zpsf90f1208.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/vw%20stuff%20or%20random%20shenanigans/P1060455Large_zpsf90f1208.jpg.html)


(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/vw%20stuff%20or%20random%20shenanigans/P1060478Large_zps7994b0c5.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/vw%20stuff%20or%20random%20shenanigans/P1060478Large_zps7994b0c5.jpg.html)


(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/vw%20stuff%20or%20random%20shenanigans/P1060458Large_zps2d6733b8.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/vw%20stuff%20or%20random%20shenanigans/P1060458Large_zps2d6733b8.jpg.html)


(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/vw%20stuff%20or%20random%20shenanigans/P1060475Large_zpsf0f562d2.jpg) (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/the_man_53/media/vw%20stuff%20or%20random%20shenanigans/P1060475Large_zpsf0f562d2.jpg.html)



I only found one smoked tail light and it is the left one  8)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on July 25, 2014, 12:01:02 pm
Good ol' Stinky!
Still dying for a General Lee paintjob. And, one of them horns.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 25, 2014, 08:56:39 pm
I may have found the exhaust rattle...one of two things will cure it. One was I think the rear engine mount is shot now. It doesn't like the beating it takes. Two: I was missing an exhaust hanger. I replaced it now and hopefully all will be good.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 04, 2014, 11:32:31 pm
Replaced the one exhaust hanger and all is well, no more rattles...I still may go all poly engine mounts as it really isn't that mild mannered anyhow and not a daily really.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 18, 2014, 08:57:38 pm
Not the best, but I have a full pull in second from 30mph to about 50mph and some idle revs to hear it stationary.
***didn't work***

I hope it works and you guys can see it.


EDIT: Try these
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ubczcbc5aij9fem/AADEoCv_KK0FxSyTHxlrLGDfa/mkii%20vw
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on August 20, 2014, 11:50:54 pm
Sweet,
I think I need to turn up my fuel screw.

I take it thats no muffler.

Thanks theman, good video after a lot of work and patience.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 21, 2014, 08:34:11 am
It has a very expensive muffler the he221w, but nothing but 3" tubing after that.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 24, 2014, 02:01:24 pm
So, I had some boost issues, then I had 0 boost. I have been leaking boost all of 2014 I suspect. It has always built boost well but it is a big turbo and takes time to get to full boost this year. I thought it was in my head. Turns out the engine mount is a bit whipped and it allowing the tubing on the wastegate to hit the fire wall. This made a split in it, eventually breaking it yesterday. I fixed it and then found that the fitting to my boost gauge was leaking as well, so I fixed that. Please to report that now I can make boost very fast and now I am not thinking I need to compound this thing for better spool.

          I just wish I would have found this before the 2 trips I took to SD and PA this year. With an already big turbo the slightest pin hole is enough to hurt spool I have found. It used to be work to get it to 15+psi now it lives there. I will think of a permanent solution when I pull the head next oil change for precup inspection. I changed the oil yesterday so it maybe spring before that happens.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on August 24, 2014, 11:03:53 pm
Hmmmm.......I wonder if anyone has a good 4 and a quarter CAT sitting around.......
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Rising on August 28, 2014, 02:06:41 am
Woah!! About time we got to hear this beast! Sounds mean! When you stomp it 30-50 it really picks up! Im impressed at how fast it spools too... Id have thought with that much turbo there would have been a more noticible delay. These holsets must really be incredible.

Would you be so kind as to add your info to the exhaust sound clip thread?

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 28, 2014, 09:16:53 am
It spools 10x faster now that I have fixed the 2 minor boost leaks. I have it set to 30psi now and that seems to work well, still 800f or below is all the egt I can muster with the 10mm Giles pump. Everything above 20 psi is wicked. This is the only turbo I have had that will bury the needle on my 35psi gauge. Granted, I run more fuel that most guys are on here, but yes, the Holset all come with the 360 bearing stock and that helps tremendously with spool. That and they are designed a ton better than the 30 year old K24 and T3 that came stock on here. But yes, now that the boost leak is fixed it spools pretty much similar to the vnt on my 01 TDI, but moves way more air.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 01, 2014, 09:42:31 am
Congratulations on your build Mr. I'm amazed your EGT's are that low with all the fuel your adding. I guess I don't yet understand the principles between fuel and boost.
I did turn in my fuel screw a tad yesterday and it seemed to improve the bottom end of the torque curve (boost comes on sooner).

Are you done or do you have other plans?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 01, 2014, 10:00:51 am
More boost = higher AFR = lower egt :)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 01, 2014, 10:51:50 am
More boost = higher AFR = lower egt :)

Definitely a huge orange to a small apple here (the van weighs in excess of 5K fully loaded) but It's all I can do to get my HE200 to 20 psi and the EGT's come up right along with it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 01, 2014, 10:58:24 am
Will it boost more if you let it?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 01, 2014, 11:27:18 am
Yes, it will peg the gauge at 35psi quite easily now. Never had one do that. Then when the wastegate starts to open it regulates it right around 30. I have a video I will post eventually so you can see all my gauges working. Barely any EGT now.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Gizmoman on September 01, 2014, 11:31:21 am
Wow - sounds like success!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Alcaid on September 01, 2014, 11:58:05 am
See, your Vanagon wants more boost ;)

The HE221W version that theman53 have we have run up to 45psi, not recommended in the long run but it did survive ;) it is very close to the HE200WG, same turbine wheel slight difference in compressor trim and ported shroud on the HE221W.  Both turbos 5cm^2 turbine housings but different downpipe flange
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 01, 2014, 09:11:46 pm
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bjdpwrcqfnrqg1/MOV_5849.3gp?dl=0


This is a link of how it builds boost.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 02, 2014, 11:35:11 am
wow wow wow, what an improvement from when i rode in it!  i feel robbed haha, i want to ride in it now that this has been fixed.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on September 02, 2014, 08:09:32 pm
Yeah, I cannot get it to smoke now. I think before it was getting enough boost to push the lda spring down but bleeding off enough to not boost. It is a very different picture now. It ran good before, don't get me wrong, but now it is different in a better way. Come by I will let you drive it
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 27, 2014, 07:18:42 pm
Updates:
I have added a stereo and some old school audio equipment. I will be making custom door parts for the speakers I want to fit in them. Sounds pretty good right now.


I have a continual battery drain and I think it is from the amps. I didn't have an issue all last winter with the battery dying and now it will die in less than a week. I am adding a compositor and hope that will stop the bleeding, it did in other setups.



I changed out the water and now have antifreeze. I should be set for the winter.


I found now that I fixed the boost issue if I rev it in neutral I can make a little over 10 psi. No load, just free rev, thought that was cool as it would make nothing before like that.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: CrazyAndy on October 28, 2014, 11:53:21 pm
Dude I don't know what to say after seeing it build boost after you fixed it . . .other than I think I should have bought a Holset!  Great job on making her into a proper boost-eater after all those munched T3s.  Have you ever done a 0-60 run?  I bet you can get sub-6 times.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on October 29, 2014, 07:23:05 am
Low end is still not the quickest. From mid to high rpm it very quick. I am doing all the stuff to put it away for the winter, unless I emergency need it, I may take it out a few times yet, we'll see. When it is colder like it is *usually 50's for the high* it doesn't like to get up to operating temp very quickly. I built it to run cooler and it does, but if I were to run it in the winter I would have to change the t stat. I have a 160f in it and it takes about 20 minutes of driving in this weather to get to 160f, then the oil takes longer. I don't like to rip on it until the oil is right about 150f or higher. So if I take a big trip or it gets hotter I will try to get a smart phone time.
I bet it would be in the 7's for 0-60, if it is less that would be awesome.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on November 13, 2014, 11:04:33 am
Going to take it out tonight. Meeting a guy for a 1.5 cylinder head he bought...I want to show him that it is possible to make them faster.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on December 29, 2014, 12:00:09 pm
Holy cow, just got this message on facebook...performance pump knowledge here. Advance curve is part but this is huge. Came from Goren the guy who built Jetmugg's record holding pump in the 1.5 land speed truck...
You have K and KF value. KF is when springs are unloaded usually 5-6mm. KF is kolben feder ib german. Piston spring. K is the value that you set with the shim under the plunger. When pump is mounted usually you have 3,6mm K at Bottom. But different lift calls for different K. Often you get it in testplan. For performance i use To set at top lift - 0.2-0.4 mm

and more...

KF is springs unloaded. Rotor out of pump. I set 0.2-0.4 at top lift and then K is what it is. For example if you have 2,8mm lift K is 3.0-3.2. Follow me?


and now even more info...

I put a shim in. Put rotor in an take pump To top lift. Mesaure from plan To plunger under the 3 size plug. If i get for example 0.7 mm i increase the shim with 0.3-0.5 mm
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: golfmk1tdr on June 14, 2015, 03:09:41 pm
Holy cow, just got this message on facebook...performance pump knowledge here. Advance curve is part but this is huge. Came from Goren the guy who built Jetmugg's record holding pump in the 1.5 land speed truck...
You have K and KF value. KF is when springs are unloaded usually 5-6mm. KF is kolben feder ib german. Piston spring. K is the value that you set with the shim under the plunger. When pump is mounted usually you have 3,6mm K at Bottom. But different lift calls for different K. Often you get it in testplan. For performance i use To set at top lift - 0.2-0.4 mm

and more...

KF is springs unloaded. Rotor out of pump. I set 0.2-0.4 at top lift and then K is what it is. For example if you have 2,8mm lift K is 3.0-3.2. Follow me?


and now even more info...

I put a shim in. Put rotor in an take pump To top lift. Mesaure from plan To plunger under the 3 size plug. If i get for example 0.7 mm i increase the shim with 0.3-0.5 mm

I apologize to wake this old thread, but madness here is just too good to be lost.
I don't know how it could be so long since last update.

Do I understand correct, Dieselmeken Goran posted you info on upgrading your fuel pump?
How did that turn out? Did you do it yourself? I mailed Goran and he 's top chap, his FB page is brilliant.  ;)
I was reading this thread as I am studying turbo maths (PR, CFM and what the hell it all means)
read it 3 times before but just now I am starting to understand what has been achieved here.
Over 90% headflow efficiency?  :o :o :o ARE YOU CRAZY? Even if car is no longer working you should be very very
proud of what you have biuld.

If this thread continiues somewhere else please tell me where is the rest of it!
Is the car still runing? Where are dyno numbers?
I realize that conversation is probably continued between theman,alcaid and rabbitjockey on private but still we jungsters
need this thread to stay alive so we can all see amazing things you achieved with this little engine.
So please let us know of car's current status ;)

regards, Matevž
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on June 14, 2015, 06:18:29 pm
Yeah it is very alive. It just needs more fuel than the mech 10mm pump can put out. I didn't do anything with the pump since getting the info from Goran, that info was mainly for what I am doing to the MTDI Jeep I am building.

Sadly, I cannot find a dyno within 2 hours of me that will do diesel. I would love to know what it is in WHP, but not that interested for a slip. I only drive it in the warmer months unless I need it for work or something in the winter. I built it to run cool so the precups will last and with the 160f thermostat it stays cold in the sub 60f outside air temps. To the point the heater really is not worth running. It is too much work for me to swap the T stat 2 times a year for fun. If I had to drive it for a long period I would, but I have the mkiv to daily...and some other junk. I only update this thread when I am driving it and lately I am hanging lights in my shed, so I am not driving it ;D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 18, 2015, 11:56:16 pm
I made some improvements today. Downpipe brace and tie rod dealings. It is now so much more civilized
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: golfmk1tdr on July 29, 2015, 12:45:44 pm
Good idea on downpipe brace, I did that too, I had problem with manifold unbolting from cyl.head so I think this should help. Any pictures how you did it?

I was wondering, you have bigger exhaust valves in your cyl. head yes?
Where are they from? What engine? I was thinking to put AAZ valves to 1.6 hydro head but it looks like they are too short...

Also are you still not driving the car?   :-[
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 29, 2015, 01:24:25 pm
I have driven it about 200 miles this week, so a little. The exhaust valves were blanks from a porche or GTI. I cannot remember which and were cut and made for this head. The rave 10 years ago was to slap an aaz head on because everyone said "the D port design is so much better" LOL, they have way bigger valves and that is why they flowed better, the D port is not the difference. To do the valves I got needs new seats installed as they are much much bigger than stock.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on March 30, 2016, 11:07:42 pm
It is almost time to get it out again. Fun spring and summer car.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on April 25, 2016, 11:23:50 pm
charged the battery and fired it up...man is it fun to drive. I have to be careful as it loves to run fast and I don't have fast speed limits here. Toyed with an mkvi GTI on the way home. Good weather is here now :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Mr.Captain on April 26, 2016, 10:35:45 am
So I am in awe of the work that's been done to the cylinder head and as I start my own 1.6 TD build for the project car,

 http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=7067437

I know I want to mirror what you have done.  I know it's been a bit since the build but I would like to know where the new valves came out of, somewhere you said a Porsche valve blank,  but the more info the better for me.  Also where did you get a higher rate valve spring or did you just shim them for more seat pressure?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on April 28, 2016, 10:42:58 pm
The guy I got all my stuff from is Audi Technologies in Tiffin Ohio. They were some sort of Porche valve with a 7mm stem. Since we have 8v the Gti and other gasser cam stuff works just fine in ours. If you are not going as big of a valve or as much boost you do not need them. If you go to 40mm you are going more than 20% larger surface area and when you are doing 45psi of boost on the larger surface area the stock spring will blow open a bit. If you are not doing that the stock will work fine.

So much fun to drive the old thing and ride that GTI's bumper, he couldn't get away :D
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: golfmk1tdr on May 17, 2016, 09:58:00 am
How do you know valve is being blown open? Just curious... nice to hear you having fun  :)
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on May 18, 2016, 12:28:27 am
Yes, yes.....you've been getting WAY TO SOFT driving that cushy Taurus wagen......you old dog!
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on May 19, 2016, 07:38:12 pm
How do you know valve is being blown open? Just curious... nice to hear you having fun  :)
You really wouldn't know for sure until disassembly and saw valve imprints. Some signs would be after a certain boost it would stop raising as fast as it did and not as good of performance as it should have. It really comes down to math and the psi of the boost vs valve diameter vs spring
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 21, 2016, 11:48:36 pm
Took it out for a spin tonight...it is hard not to get a ticket. Luckily I didn't, but it loves to cruise. Looks horrible now, but runs like a scared deer. Fun.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on July 22, 2016, 12:39:06 pm
haven't been using it much this year?
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on July 24, 2016, 07:52:35 pm
haven't been using it much this year?
Not really. There has been too much to do. Dropped 3 big pines in the back yard and have all the animals to deal with, plus life keeping it all going, so there is hardly any time to joy ride.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on November 18, 2016, 09:15:07 am
Well with the cold weather being non existent in Ohio, I have had this car out a more. I have been taking it to my deer hunting place and to look at some trucks. While it isn't cold, it isn't hot here, so it runs about perfect in this mid 40s to mid 60s temp "F" for the non American people here. I almost sold the head from this, but it didn't work out. It was a win either way as I am still happy to drive it.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Toby on November 18, 2016, 12:10:27 pm
How do you know valve is being blown open? Just curious... nice to hear you having fun  :)
You really wouldn't know for sure until disassembly and saw valve imprints. Some signs would be after a certain boost it would stop raising as fast as it did and not as good of performance as it should have. It really comes down to math and the psi of the boost vs valve diameter vs spring

Ok, What kind of "valve impressions" do you think you will see with the mythical "valves blown open" problem? Try putting 35 psi on the back of the valves and see if you can blow them open. If the valve and seat are in good shape you won't see any leakage. I used to check valve seal this way and never saw any leakage as long as the valve and seat were OK. This was head upside down on the bench with the combustion chamber full of solvent.

Valve float at high RPMs is a much more likely problem. If the valves really were being "blown open" the seats are not going to look any different than if the were not. If they are floating and crashing back down on the seat with solid lifters, that will be visible. With HLAs nothing should be visible since the HLAs will hold the valve off the seat until they bleed down.

Are you using a hydro or mechanical head? Valve float in a head with hydraulic lash adjusters are much more prone to valve float issues. Valve float that would go unnoticed in a solid lifter application will kill performance because the lash adjusters (lifters) take up the slack on even the tiniest amount of valve float and then hold the valve open the HLA bleeds down.

I had this happen on a Paxton blown 340 Mopar in my youth. It would pull like a freight train in first gear until the got into float near redline. It then nosed over in second and ran like a 2 bbl. Let it idle for a minute or two and it was fine until the next time it got close to redline.

I am not saying that pressure on the back of the valve does not lessen the effective valve spring pressure. Just that the effect is unnoticeable until the intake valve is almost completely closed. Once the cylinder pressure comes up slightly the effect will be negated and the valve will close. It would only be held open if the pressure behind the intake valve is significantly higher than on the chamber side, so no leakage out of the CC is possible. It will act like an old atmospheric intake setup in the worst case. The worst thing that could happen would be that overlap would be extended in any situation where the turbo could still cram in more air. So where is the downside?

If you are running wimpy valve springs on a hydro head, a lot of boost will get you into hydraulic valve float at a lower RPM. The solution? Do like we have always done when dealing with valve float: ditch the wimpy springs and the hydraulic lash adjusters.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on November 21, 2016, 08:30:44 am
if anything it would be the exhaust valves because there is a lot more pressure in the exhaust manifold, i don't think it would blow them open as much as it could it delay them from closing,  and if it holds them open too long on a hydraulic head the lifters will adjust and hold the valve open more until they adjust back down, it does happen and a few people have reported it on here.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on November 21, 2016, 11:55:42 am
I'm just trying to imagine with physics...  Any time the valve is open, the pressure on either side of the valve will be very close to equal.  With the pressure close to equal on either side of the valve, the valve will close if the cam is not pushing it open and it will stay closed until either the cam pushes it open OR there is significantly more pressure on the back of the valve than there is on the front. 

Thinking about intake valves if the intake pressure is very high...  On the intake stroke, the pressure in the cylinder will be lower, but the valve IS open by the cam.  Near the start of the compression stroke, the pressure inside the cylinder will be the same as the pressure in the intake manifold or darn close.  Because the pressure is normal, the cam and valve spring will close the valve.  The pressure in the cylinder will then rise abruptly and vastly overtake the intake pressure so there is no chance of the intake valve opening during the compression stroke or the power stroke.  On the exhaust stroke, the cylinder pressure will be higher than the exhaust manifold pressure and definitely higher than the intake manifold pressure so no chance of the intake valve opening during the exhaust stroke.  Ok... intake valves cannot be blown open.

Thinking about the exhaust valves when the exhaust manifold pressure is high.  During the power stroke, obviously cylinder pressure is much higher than EMP - exhaust valves will not be able to open.  On the exhaust stroke, the cylinder pressure will normalize with the exhaust manifold pressure - exhaust valve is open by design.  On the intake stroke, if the exhaust manifold pressure is higher than the intake pressure by enough of a difference to overcome the exhaust valve springs, some exhaust will leak into the cylinders.  On the compression stroke, the cylinder pressure will quickly overtake the exhaust manifold pressure and keep the exhaust closed through to the end of the power stroke when it opens by design. 

My conclusion... intake valves cannot be 'blown open', exhaust valves could possibly be blown open on the intake stroke if the difference between intake and exhaust manifold pressures is very high, and there is not any situation of valves being blown open that can result in piston/valve contact.

This is just my attempt at a logical assessment based on physics and it could certainly be wrong due to my missing some key factor.  At this point, though, I think it's solid thinking.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: RabbitJockey on November 22, 2016, 11:32:08 am
i agree libby, definitely not an intake side issue, or a contact issue except maybe in extreme cases, but there is the possibility for hydraulic lifters to pump and cause compressor leakage out the exhaust valves, causing white smoke and a lack of power, which is what a few people have reported, but the cars recovered fine.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on February 20, 2017, 09:48:22 am
I am putting this here as I seem to have lost what specs my turbo has...
Holset HE221W
 Cummins ISBe 3.9 and ISF 2.8, Brazilian Ford F-250 (2006-current)
Billet compressor wheel
 5cm, 6cm, 7cm and 8.5cm turbine housing options
 Identical to the HX27 except for having a billet aluminum compressor wheel

Compressor
 Exducer: 60mm
 Inducer: 43.5mm
 12 blades
 52 trim

 Turbine
 Inducer: 53mm
 Exducer: 45.7mm
 11 blades
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Mr.Captain on January 19, 2018, 03:27:03 pm
trying to bolt up my 221 turbo, what manifold setup did u use?  I tried looking through the post but the photobucket pics wont load.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: Dakotakid on January 19, 2018, 11:24:20 pm
You'll need to private message Lucas.
I don't believe he comes around much any more.
This engine proved to be a bit much to have sitting in front of an O2O trans.

This engine is now waiting to go into his Dukes of Hazzard Jeep. Kea kea kea kea..........
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on January 28, 2018, 10:10:17 am
I don't get on as much as I used to. There is a T25 flange turbo exhaust manifold on ebay for the 8v vw's, that is what I used. They also make a T3 flange one for the 8v vw. The holset I used is T25, it was approx. 100.00 when I bought it but the last I saw they were about 175.00 now, the T3 were much cheaper. Don't ask me why.

Yes, this engine destroyed my clutchnet red clutch and broke the bolts in the cv of the drivers side 100mm cv which threw the cv into the cryo treated ags trans and knocked a hole in the case...if someone wants over 1,000 dollar cryo treated arp bolt kit trans I would sell it pretty reasonable, just needs a new case or this one welded.
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: libbydiesel on January 28, 2018, 04:49:49 pm
Ugh.  I didn't look back and check but did you pass 40,000 miles on it?  :-P
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on February 12, 2018, 10:10:54 pm
Engine is still going strong with about 10,000 miles on it...everything else doesn't like it
Title: Re: I am starting a 1.6TD build version 2, hoping for more than 40,000 miles :D
Post by: theman53 on August 29, 2018, 10:15:26 pm
so, I blew up the trans last year. I am still tinkering with the Jeep and I might just use this engine for the Jeep project. I haven't been on in months, I might not for a while. This was such a fun engine. If I keep an older VW I will convert it to O2J so the power isn't an issue for the trans