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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: bbob203 on April 16, 2013, 03:22:25 pm
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Is this possible? I hate The idea that if my ps pump locks up and I have to remove the belt i lose coolant flow.
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not easily.. the wp pully needs to be 2 pieces with shims to adjust the belt.. i still think 83-86 quantium td had that.. but never confirmed
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There is a mythical CCW rotating water pump that would allow alt, A/C and water pump to all be run by the serp belt, but it was never offered on anything in North America. I wouldn't want to rely on an unavailable water pump either. You can run alt and A/C with the serp belt and then run just the water pump with the 1.6TD Quantum/Audi water pump pulley. Flipped backwards it gives the correct offset, correct diameter and is the split pulley type that allows adjustment by removal or replacement of shims between the two halves. I've been running that way for several years. I think you could also run that pulley rather than the solid one with the PS pump although by mTDI doesn't have PS so I haven't done so. That way, all you'd need to tote is the smaller belt to eliminate the PS pump on the side of the road.
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I'm trying to envision this .. any pics?
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alt pully you took apart with 2 halves.. same thing but with 3 holes.. then they have big round shims to make the groove wider/thinner which is how you adjust tenson on the belt..
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I can't find a pic and due to stuff in the way it is not really possible to get a pic of it installed in my Vanagon. The Qantum 1.6TD water pump pulley is has the v offset from the pump flange. On the Quantum it is installed so the V is closer to the engine block. When installed on the 1Z/AHU, it needs to be installed so the V is out away from the shaft flange in order to line up with the v-belt part of the 1Z/AHU crank sprocket. Anyway, it fits and woks great and is an option if want to run alt, A/C and water pump without the P/S.
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thanks for confirming libby.. what i kinda expected to do on my 84 coupe.. just never gotten to that build..
one more odd ball split.. problem is holes.. usa westy power steering rabbits got.. with old york ac comp..
alt ran off ac.. ac ran off crank, had the shim style at crank to adj that..
then they ran a split ps pully that was way goofy in diameter.. thats the ps system that if you sneeze you curb it..
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what about the vr6 water pump pulley, Ive installed one on an ABA with a serp setup to delete the PS and can run a/c too.
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here is one on a diesel:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/25879jo.jpg)
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The VR6 pulley won't work with A/C unless you get the Unobtainium CCW Water Pump.
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I'm pretty sure in the above pic, the belt is spinning the water pump the same direction as stock.
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Yes, but there is not an A/C compressor installed.
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This pic (ignore that is says for a 50° vanagon - the serp bits are the same) shows why the A/C and waterpump cannot both be run by the serp belt at the same time without spinning the water pump backwards (or adding a custom idler). With the belt going around the A/C compressor pulley, there is no engagement with the water pump pulley.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/libbybapa/TDI_1Z_Motor_50_degrees100_alt_zps94269bd5.gif)
I never thought of that so good point. However the tdi pully is larger, as to offset the lower operating rpms at the accessory drive. So perhaps you could run a gasser crank pully, such as an 1.8t stock or underdrive pulley.
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Weird. This time I wasn't the one who deleted my post...
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Weird. This time I wasn't the one who deleted my post...
HAHA lmao. No u posted to te wrong thread. U posted that in the turbo thread. It happens to me sometimes if I am using alot of tabs and I'm not logged in, when I log in to post in a thread it will take you to the last thread u opened a tab for instead of the thread u were in when you clicked login
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Ah, the mystery solved. Thanks.
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you could def. get the waterpump going if this was your crank pulley, which should bolt up, as its meant for a widebelt 1.8t
(http://www.parts4vws.com/images/parts/19014.jpg)
or a stock 1.8t
(http://spitfireefi.com/gallery/albums/16vtpt2/DSC_4662.jpg)
as you can see they arent that big.
both of these would under-drive the accessories, but really if your alternator is strong, and your running a larger amp unit, it shouldnt be an issue. the h20 pump doesnt need much spin on a diesel, as they are really efficient at staying cold, the only thing that MIGHT suffer a little bit is power steering and possibly the A/C, but they should run at the same rpm's at idle as the 1.8t so really were talking cruise rpm, which i dont see being an issue, a/c might be slightly less efficient spinning at a lower rpm...
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(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/libbybapa/Pulley_zps92518692.jpg)
Nope. The belt still wouldn't touch the water pump pulley even with the small blue crank pulley. The belt will just start to touch the water pump pulley (tangent with 0° of engagement) with a crank pulley the size of the crank timing sprocket. That still would not give adequate engagement to make it turn and even if it did, the water pump, A/C and alt would turn at 1/2 speed. That wouldn't be good for anything.
As I said before, get an unobtainium CCW water pump or add a custom idler or get the Quatum pulley and v-belt. Running the w-pump with the single v-belt is my choice as it relies on available parts and separates the water pump from the rest of the belt drive system so that any of the other unnecessary accessories can fail without affecting the critical function of the water pump. I'd personally rather see the serp belt run everything else including the P/S pump and still keep the water pump separate.
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How to run ps off serp? Would under drive mess up my tach too?
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I don't know how to run PS off the serp. I haven't seen it done with the AAZ/1Z/AHU serp setup. I was saying that rather than work hard to get the water pump driven by the serp belt, I would rather put that effort into separating it from the other accessories. On the ALH they went as far as to drive the water pump with the timing belt.
Yes, changing the ratio of either the crank pulley or alt pulley will change your alt reading.
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Looks like the best option is a idler pulley
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What would make adding a custom idler and correctly sized ribbed belt easier or better than the stock bolt-on quantum water pump pulley? The Q pulley is part number 068121029A, the shims are 068121185B (4 or 5 will suffice) and the belt is 10x650. The pulley is still available new from VW for $60ish and the shims are less than $2 each.
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::) cause some wanna reinvent the wheel... again thanks libby.. you confirmed what i thought long time on this.. but now i need to order one as will become nla now..
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I would bet that Quality German in Montclair, CA or Brax Europarts in Montana would have them used. I know I have a couple used sets in the parts hoard, but I also fear the day they are NLA and will hang onto them for future projects. ;D
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Does that mean the quantum pump turns backwards?
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No.
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the stock pump might actually work spinning backwards, it won't flow as much but i think it would work which would probably be ok in a golf/jetta scenario but not in a vanagon. the water pumps work off a turbine and a turbine spinning backwards will still flow the same direction just as well. you'd probably just end up with the performance of one of the ***ty "new" water pumps with the pump turbine blades that are punched out of a flat piece of metal then bent up. but who wants to take that chance? i know the vanagon guys already have trouble with the stamped style water pumps
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/4185290.jpg)
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It doesn't work spinning backwards. I've tried it. You'll boil over on hills.
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It doesn't work spinning backwards. I've tried it. You'll boil over on hills.
Thanks buzz kill
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http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=33325.0
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The Q[uantum] pulley is part number 068121029A, the shims are 068121185B (4 or 5 will suffice) and the belt is 10x650.
I bashed my head quite a bit trying to make an OD 650mm belt work on my application. I am using a genuine 028 105 253A on the crank. AVX 10X660 seems to be the ticket for me.
Is there tool to hold the water pump pulley to allow tightening of the mounting bolts? VAG 1590 is too big.