VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: audilvr on February 06, 2014, 05:51:48 pm
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as it says, is a z1 a m-tdi or just a early tdi?
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1Z is an engine block code for a VW TDI diesel engine used from approximately 1992-1997. m-tdi refers to a mechanically controlled injection pump on a an engine that originally had an electronically controlled injection pump. No electronics, with a throttle cable to the pump. The 1Z engine is often used for an m-tdi "conversion".
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I think the proper way to say is the 1z, AHU, even the ALH were mechanically injected, but they had electronic governor control.
To go to "Mtdi" usually means going away from all electronics except the fuel cut off 12v wire to the pump.
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You seem to argue this point every time it comes up. You think it's the PROPER WAY? It's semantics. Please leave my post alone alone. Injection pump describes a mechanical device. Both are pumps. One has electronic controls, one has mechanical controls. If you've taken them apart & serviced both types, you'd understand this. If the OP understands what I'm saying you don't have to add anything. You want to see yourself be right. Please leave it alone already. C'mon. :)
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Yelling at the moderator... *slow clap*
More information is always good.
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You seem to argue this point every time it comes up. You think it's the PROPER WAY? It's semantics. Please leave my post alone alone. Injection pump describes a mechanical device. Both are pumps. One has electronic controls, one has mechanical controls. If you've taken them apart & serviced both types, you'd understand this. If the OP understands what I'm saying you don't have to add anything. You want to see yourself be right. Please leave it alone already. C'mon. :)
^^ You are right in every way ^^
It is the easiest thing in the world to convert 1Z/AHU engines to M-TDI. ALH not so much, unless you ditch the VNT turbo.. which as I am concerned is horrible at making power anyhow. It was an emissions device when conceived, and still is. Waste gate turbo's make more power with less issue.
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Not that the vortex is the best source for much of anything diesel but
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5925343-ALH-or-MTDI
Read post #11...exactly the same thing I was saying. "1Z, AHU, ALH, even PD engines are not electronic injection. They are mechanically injected, look it up. Common rail? now that is different, those engines ARE electronically injected. Not an easy task to make an ALH a Common Rail."---8v of fury from the vortex.
You seem to argue this point every time it comes up. You think it's the PROPER WAY? It's semantics. Please leave my post alone alone. Injection pump describes a mechanical device. Both are pumps. One has electronic controls, one has mechanical controls. If you've taken them apart & serviced both types, you'd understand this. If the OP understands what I'm saying you don't have to add anything. You want to see yourself be right. Please leave it alone already. C'mon. Smiley
I don't know exactly what you are trying to achieve here? I don't see this as an intelligent post, but correct me if I am wrong. I said "mechanically injected, but they had electronic governor control" you said "One has electronic controls, one has mechanical controls." --- I don't see a difference? I have been in a few pumps, I get it. Also, I did not touch your post, edit, or misconstrue in any way, so I don't know what you are implying there. And again, I would like always be right, so yes, I would like to see myself as being right. ---I don't see an issue.
Bottom line is I have no clue why you posted what you posted for any reason.
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as it says, is a z1 a m-tdi or just a early tdi?
What exactly are you wanting to know? If you are thinking can I run it without the factory ECU, then no, not as is.
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I'm picking up a z1 and an ahu this weekend. one of them is going in this gti shell.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=34378.0
I'm completely new to tdi's and was hoping the z1 pump was a m pump. I kind of figured it wasn't but it was worth asking. i'll just have to convert one, I know where I can get a 1.9 pump and I have several 1.6 pumps so I should be able to put something together. just wishful thinking and blind hope to think it might have already been done I guess.
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Well there are folks on here who have converted their own pumps; just ask and they can provide a good parts list to help easily convert your 1Z pump to cable control if you want to stick with the pump you currently have. As for other pumps, the land rover LR 300 is a popular option, with relatively little modification besides delivery valve swap, boring out your pump mount bracket for the pump nose, and using an ALH sprocket, but the trick is locating one as they were never sodl here in the states or Canada IIRC. Cummins 4bt is right out as a bolt-in, due to needing modification of internal advance mechanisms for working properly with a VW motor. IDK if the original 1989 Audi TDI pumps might be viable, since I don't know of they were cable-operated; have a feeling they weren't. Sorry if I'm no help.
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doesn't matter for now, he sold them out from under me.
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I'm picking up a z1 and an ahu this weekend. one of them is going in this gti shell.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=34378.0
I'm completely new to tdi's and was hoping the z1 pump was a m pump. I kind of figured it wasn't but it was worth asking. i'll just have to convert one, I know where I can get a 1.9 pump and I have several 1.6 pumps so I should be able to put something together. just wishful thinking and blind hope to think it might have already been done I guess.
I don't think VW ever sold a turbocharged, direct injected diesel engine without electronic engine controls.
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Yes, they did, but not in North America. The LT28 was a stock mechanical VW TDI and although I haven't owned one, I have heard that the pump is a total bolt-on for the AHU with 12mm plunger. The pumps are quite rare.
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Yes but isn't the LT28 a 6-cylinder? Not an instant bolt-on for our states-bound 4 cylinders, but you could swap the guts in, which isn't much of an obstacle if audilvr has no qualms with doing that.
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Nope. LT28 had an inline-4 2.8L TDI engine.
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You're both right...28 is a weight rating, like a 3500 pickup being a 1 ton, so LT28 had 4,5, and 6 cyl diesels by VW and Perkins in some early ones.
5 and 6 cyl pumps spin the other way, so using the guts may take more work.
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I wasn't attempting to outline the various engines that were used in the LT28. There were also gasoline engines installed in the LT28 and those weren't stock mTDIs either... I was merely saying that there WAS a stock mechanical TDI engine produced by VW that was a 2.8L Inline-4 TDI and the pump for that engine is a straight bolt-on mechanical pump for the AHU.
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Advanced Automation sells the LT2.8 pump if anyone wants to go see a picture of a fully mechanical TDI 4 cylinder pump.
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(http://advancedautomotion.com/shop/images/SD060001.JPG)
Here's their pic. Notice the correct sprocket offset, slotted mounting holes for timing adjustment, correct diameter snout, proper deep dynamic advance cap, short delivery valves, and only four of them.
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uk guy has rover pump for conversions.. lucas knows how to reach him.. but $500 shipped to door.. almost bolts on.. needs machine work, but no popping pump open which is where most fail..
he also has tdi swap.. from a mk3 tdi swap for sale.. i have a b4 set up for sale.. rather see it put in a b3 though as its go tnew rad/ac and all that crap works.. so b3 wagon swap to keep all goodies..
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my way of reaching the UK guy is to get ahold of CRSMP5 and tell him to get ahold of me :D
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LT 2.8 is a mercedes engine (motor) on what info i have found out , all the LT 2.5 tdi and sdi (vw engine) have the mercedes gear box
I have a few LR tdi injection pumps all std and would sell and ship to the US etc if needed if any one is intersted
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I saw someone type their love for the 1z, saying it was more reliable and simple.
Seems like a good place to ask how everyone thinks it compares to the AHU, even the ALH.
Soo if I was going to build an mTDI how does the 1z compare?
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I'm picking up a z1 and an ahu this weekend. one of them is going in this gti shell.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=34378.0
I'm completely new to tdi's and was hoping the z1 pump was a m pump. I kind of figured it wasn't but it was worth asking. i'll just have to convert one, I know where I can get a 1.9 pump and I have several 1.6 pumps so I should be able to put something together. just wishful thinking and blind hope to think it might have already been done I guess.
I don't think VW ever sold a turbocharged, direct injected diesel engine without electronic engine controls.
I have an lt28 pump on my ahu. It runs great! Only problem is, the idle is slightly funky. I have not tuned it yet though.
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The 1z is virtually identical to the AHU except for one important difference - the stock 1z pistons are a weaker design and can have some issues. If you are building an engine and plan on replacing pistons then a 1z and an AHU are totally the same.
They do use a slightly different injection pump too, but the difference is just some ribs on the pump case (you can say "that's a 1z injection pump and that one is an AHU pump" if you see them side by side but they perform identically)
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So the AHU pistons fit in a 1z and are concidered a common upgrade when rebuilding a 1z?
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I thought there was a difference in the head as well?
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1z had 7mm valves I think.
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Piston wise yes, the AHU pistons are an upgrade and fit perfectly. Actually all of the 1.9 TDI pistons will fit.
There are better pistons available than the AHU ones btw. The later pistons have an oil chamber that is fed by the piston squirters. It sloshes oil along the bottom of the crown providing significantly better cooling.
These for instance:
http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=410
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