VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: fspGTD on August 01, 2006, 04:27:10 am
-
Hey folks -
I wanted to take a few moments to make a strong recommendation for a specific pyrometer thermocouple probe I have just completed testing on.
Result: Can you imagine an EGT gauge reacting nearly as quickly as the boost gauge??? VERY QUICK REACTION!!! That's what I am seeing with this probe... I highly recommend it.
It's a model sold at a dirt-cheap price by aircraft spruce:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p48b8afea54fef909675669ca2886bf15/ef77d200.jpg)
part number 10-01478
Here is the link to their website with it:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/micro8egt.php
Aircraft spruce is very pleasant to work with and can ship small orders no problem by parcel post. I opted for the 1/8" NPT version... which is a little less material to drill and tap into the exhaust manifold and a little easier to position than 1/4" NPT.
This unit is fully shielded (not an exposed junction) but yet very thin barreled, and with a skinny tapered tip, making it in theory quite quick reacting, only slower than an exposed junction type. The fully shielded should make it long lasting and reliable in a sooty diesel exhaust environment (unlike an exposed junction type probe I'd imagine.)
As for an installation location, here is where I opted to install my thermocouple this time around:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/pa9b7a1f0e852ab3eae036989ef4710bc/ef77d1ed.jpg)
Although I have previously gone straight into the turbocharger's turbine housing, I wanted a location that was preturbine and balanced across all four cylinders, but also allow me to swap between two different turbos without swapping the thermocouple or buying two of them.
I'd like to give fatmobile some credit for inspiring this location (via his excellent post with pics here (http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1142&start=5)), although I did change the location a little bit to avoid the downpipe support bracket bolt (to make it a little easier to maintain.)
After the drilling and tapping...
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p224673e796416e534e74412cc13d91e9/ef77d051.jpg)
Can't forget the anti-seize (this fitting is very high quality stainless by the way.) Copper-based is a good idea for any fasteners that touch the turbine housing or exhaust manifold.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p309a0b2e791619743691aa0b70773253/ef77cfdb.jpg)
And the final installed position of the probe. I wanted it preturbine, and so all four cylinders supplied heat:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/p15d21493978030070b256cd9ca522f3a/ef77cdc3.jpg)
The hole had to be angled to be well centered in the exhaust port and also clear downpipe support bracket underneath:
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/pb9701cc7219b44e18f1402cc820e0081/ef77ce5a.jpg)
Oh yeah - another thing I wanted to share: I have had problems in the past with my EGT gauge going out because of the thermocouple electrical connections in the passenger compartment becoming corroded. My solution this time was replacing the connectors with some weatherpak connectors.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p0318fabf8463bbe01044bfe1dd383222/edb8ddc0.jpg)
These very slick little guys are quick-disconnectable and completely shield the conductors from the outside atmosphere/moisture.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p86589afc5b743296b4b090a0763d1ab3/edb8ddb3.jpg)
-
Just curious, have you measured the temperature drop between the manifold (pre-turbine) and downpipe at the turbine exit? Just wondering if the two temperatures are consistently different, or if the delta varies significantly. Also, will that thermocouple work with a VDO pyrometer?
-
Thanks for the info Jake. I will need to get a new EGT thermocouple for my next diesel build so this one will be considered. $24 USD!
I'm also curious as to know what pyrometer gauge you're using.
-
Jake, will that TC work with any guage, or is there a specific gauge required?
-
hey thats where i put mine,sweet
mine came with a chart that told ya the different voltage outputs at different temps
im not sure if its guage specific,but i think ya may wanna keep the manufacturers the same
yours is a little newer style than mine
um,why not get 2 probes,"spruce" offers guages that have 2 egt guages in one guage
put one per+post turbo
-
Hey folks -
Oh yeah - another thing I wanted to share: I have had problems in the past with my EGT gauge going out because of the thermocouple electrical connections in the passenger compartment becoming corroded. My solution this time was replacing the connectors with some weatherpak connectors.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p0318fabf8463bbe01044bfe1dd383222/edb8ddc0.jpg)
These very slick little guys are quick-disconnectable and completely shield the conductors from the outside atmosphere/moisture.
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid210/p86589afc5b743296b4b090a0763d1ab3/edb8ddb3.jpg)
Jake, I just read this and thought I had read that introducing a connection point other than at the cold junction will cause problems.
I did a search and found the following:
"Connection problems. Many measurement errors are caused by unintentional thermocouple junctions. Remember that any junction of two different metals will cause a junction. If you need to increase the length of the leads from your thermocouple, you must use the correct type of thermocouple extension wire (eg type K for type K thermocouples). Using any other type of wire will introduce a thermocouple junction. Any connectors used must be made of the correct thermocouple material and correct polarity must be observed. "
In other words the metal in the plug should be of the correct material for a proper reading.
Don
-
It is my understanding that any gauge of a given type (type K, type J, type R/S, etc) will work with any thermocouple of the same type. The manufacturer doesn't matter, the type does.
Andrew
I have swapped gauges meant for the k thermocouples before and they appear to read the same.
One thing I would like to see is how fast this thermocouple responds compared to my autometere and isspro gauges I usually install.
-
I made sure the connectors I used (the standard weatherpak ones by the way) are the same material as the original standard "lug" type pyrometer connectors... tin plated metal of some type (I'm gonna say going from memory I believe it's tin plated copper, but could be remembering that wrong.) I made sure to crimp them on instead of soldering them, just like the original connectors. :) As I understand having solder in the thermocouple signal can mess up the reading accuracy.
I should take a video of the pyro gauge reacting... I'm serious that it's almost as fast as the boost gauge! What's really amazing is how fast it cools down now. The motor is cooling down a lot quicker than I thought.
With my old setup, I could determine how long to idle the motor (before shutting it down, to cool down the turbo) by watching the EGT gauge and just waiting until it dropped below 200 deg. F. With my current EGT setup if I did that, it would take barely any time at all before the gauge reads that cool! I like it.
I am using it with a VDO "cockpit" series non-powered pyrometer, but it should work with any other automotive pyrometer ("K" type.)
-
The motor is cooling down a lot quicker than I thought.
My EGT guage reading drops fast after a hard run too, but if you go back 5 minutes after shut down it'll be back up at 500º. Seems the actual gas temperature drops quite quickly, the manifold and turbo temperature does not...
-
yea on mine,it drops rightoff whenits unloaded,i think its like 10x more responsive pre turbo,as opposed to post turbo
i have had this thermocouple in both places
when im cruisin,its like 600-700 f
and if i nail it it leaps right up to 11-1200 like an electrical guage almost,ona major burn it down run,ive seen 14-1500 on the tdi(preturbo)
yea when i pull in the driveway,it goes to 300 pretty quick,then i let it run till it says like 200-250,that takes it a min or 2
overall view
guages from l to r on top of dash
the little 3 pod setup on extreme left has volts,water temp,oilpsi
tach is in middle
egt,boost,oil temp on right on that old gti guage face plate painted black
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8806/hpim0448wk8.jpg)
egt,boost,oil temp,close up
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/530/hpim0449re7.jpg)
air cleaner restriction,boost pressure,fuelpressure
(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8472/hpim0447sg9.jpg)
im lying here a little,the aircleaner+boost guage arent hooked up,they just fill the holes
the "fuel pressure" guage is actually a summit brand digital oil pressure guage,reads from 0-99 psi
guage was 30 bucks,and sender was 12 i think
i drilled and tapped one of the fuel filter banjos for 1/8 npt for the sender for the psi guage
-
Ok here's a dump question. I order the 1/8 npt egt probe (10-01478) from air spruce. I have the manifold off the block and I would like to drill and tap the manifold while its off (just like in the pics).
What size hole and tap do I need to make it? I don't have the probe yet so I can't go off of it.
Thanks,
Dave
-
That's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure before I go drilling holes.
Thanks
-
Hi Jake n all,
cheers to the link in ref to "Aircraft Spruce EGT Thermocouple" i went to their website to check EGT related stuff, i knew they are based your side of the pond, but they have a UK rep, so we too in the UK can benefit from their products without having to pay massive shipping costs.
:!:
the link to the uk side of their business is www.airworlduk.com and he's friendly and easy to deal with.
as theres other uk poster here i waned to let them know also.
i managed to get a thermo extension cable for my EGT as mines a Brick, only cost £7.00 :o . well chuffed, been hunting high an low for the right cable. :lol: :lol:
Thanks again,
hillshy
-
i managed to get a thermo extension cable for my EGT as mines a Brick, only cost £7.00 :o . well chuffed, been hunting high an low for the right cable. :lol: :lol:
Thanks again,
hillshy
Do you know if it's a UK only item and can it be bought on their american website? Do you have a part number?
Thanks.
-
i am a bit rookie...
can someone please give the the part numbers or links to what i need for a complete setup?
i dont like very much the gauges i saw on theyr site...can i buy other and link it to theyr probes?
thank you
-
I am ready to buy an EGT gauge. I like the sound of the 10-01478 thermocouple from Aircraft Spruce but I need to find a way to wire it to a VDO cockpit gauge in the front of my van, which is ~15ft away.
Aircraft Spruce does sell a 15ft extension cable (10-01481) but the nice lady told me that it specifically says that it will NOT work with the VDO cockpit gauge! Wonder why?
Jake, what kind of cable did you use to connect the thermocouple to your VDO gauge?
Thanks,
-Dave
-
Do you know if it's a UK only item and can it be bought on their american website? Do you have a part number?
firstly sorry for the late reply, really late! but better late then never i hope :lol:
i cant find the bill or the orginal bag, so i cant supply you with a part no?
http://www.airworlduk.com
he is somehow linked to airspruce,so i should think the extention cables are available via airspruce.
this is what i plan to use,before i add the extention, i'm going to get the gauge up and running, with the standard length- take some measurements. Add the extention and see how the gauge reacts.
ext cable (http://www.hillshy.co.uk/images/DSC00688.JPG)
gauge (http://www.hillshy.co.uk/images/DSC00687.JPG)
total length (http://www.hillshy.co.uk/images/DSC00685.JPG)
Another thing to note, been reading old posts in relation to crimping v soldering, crimping seems to be the best way forward for a whole host of reasons.
-
i am a bit rookie...
can someone please give the the part numbers or links to what i need for a complete setup?
i dont like very much the gauges i saw on theyr site...can i buy other and link it to theyr probes?
thank you
Google the string "K Thermocouple" and you will find lots of information. I already did this and from reading it is my current understanding that ANY K type gauge should work with ANY K-type thermocouple. The only question in my mind is the wiring between the gauge and the thermocouple.
-Dave
-
So what is best gauge to get????? I know there is alot of options but what is everybodys experances???
-
I got my thermocouple installed - details and pictures at the bottom of this page:
http://motorheads.net/vw/turbobus/page3.html
Thanks Jake and fatmobile for your posts on this subject which saved me lots of time, money and anguish.
I do have one question though - the probe slides in and out of the fitting easily. How am I supposed to keep the probe from falling out, and won't it leak exhaust gasses? Or does it just get plugged up with carbon? Should I fasten it to the manifold with a stainless ziptie? Bend the tip inside the manifold? Something else?
Thanks,
-Dave
-
Hey Speedy.... totally enjoying reading about your bus retrofit btw.
My EGT probe slides in and out as well... doesn't seem right to me since it's under pressure but thats the way it came. I would have expected something that crimps in place given the pipe fittings.... hmmmm.
I'm planning to seal it in with muffler cement and back the cement up with a stainless steel pipe clamp... (unfortunately) I'm post-turbo so I can just clamp around the downpipe. You might be able to use heavy wire wrapped around the initial part of the fitting where it screws into the manifold.
I can tell you're the kinda guy who likes doing the job right from your pictures so this might be a bit hokey... perhaps someone else has a more robust idea. If it starts to leak it will sure be a pain once the manifold is bolted back on !!
Vince
-
Thanks Vincent. I'm still not sure what to do about it. A SS ziptie sounded good at first but I don't want any part of the thermocouple except the tip contacting hot surfaces. Once it's installed I will see if I can ziptie it to something else nearby that is not hot.
-Dave
-
Hi all. I have the same probe setup and i'm also concerned that the probe seems very loose inside the fitting and it will surely leak gasses. I'm sure that there is a simple solution but i just can't think of one :roll: Anyone have any ideas???
-
You can allways drill the NPT fitting for a setscrew.
thats how my AutoMeter probe is held in.
Don't overtighten.
-
And seal the gap with muffler cement...
-
Does anyone know of a nice digital readout that will work with this thermocouple?
-
I don't have that thermocouple, but mine came with a compression fitting, like the kind that crimps against a copper pipe. A nut with an inside taper, a metal ferrel that is thinner towards the ends, and the fitting which also has a taper inside. As the nut tightens, it sort of crimps the ferrel around the thermocouple. I did have to tighten it fairly tight before it started grabbing. If yours are the same type, you may just need to crank down harder.
-
Does anyone know of a nice digital readout that will work with this thermocouple?
http://www.dakotadigital.com has a few digital gauges. Not sure about them being compatible so you might want to ask them.
-
I don't have that thermocouple, but mine came with a compression fitting, like the kind that crimps against a copper pipe. A nut with an inside taper, a metal ferrel that is thinner towards the ends, and the fitting which also has a taper inside. As the nut tightens, it sort of crimps the ferrel around the thermocouple. I did have to tighten it fairly tight before it started grabbing. If yours are the same type, you may just need to crank down harder.
You are a genius! I bet that is the way it is supposed to work, but... mine does not have the washer (ferrel). There's a slight possibility I may have overlooked it in the plastic bag it came in, if that's the case I'm screwed because I tossed the plastic bag a few weeks ago. I suppose I will call Aircraft Spruce again and see if they can verify that it is supposed to be a compression fitting. Maybe I can find the washer at Elliots.
Thanks,
-Dave
-
hehe so much trouble from one simple part... when installing my suspension system i overlooked the box contents and had to rush around to find some nuts at canadian tire that i left at my house... finally found em! i'll get around to putting the right ones on sometime... :lol:
-
Does anyone know of a good online source for the "Weatherpak Connector" that Jake used?
-
I called Aircraft Spruce about the thermocouple the other day - they were friendly and helpful as usual. They confirmed that there were no washers in the bag.
I went to Elliot's Hardware and found a 4-pack of 1/8" copper "compression sleeves". Popped one onto the probe, tightened the nut, and... oh happy day! It now holds the probe tightly in place.
I don't know why there wasn't one included in the bag - maybe that's why they are so cheap? Surplus, missing parts... ? :)
-
I suppose it's possible that I didn't notice the ferrule and that Aircraft Spruce didn't notice it because it was inside the nut.
-Dave
-
so with the aircraft spruce thermocouple being k-type,
that means this autometer gauge will work perfectly as it uses a k-type coupler too correct?
http://www.autometer.com/cat_gaugedetail.aspx?gid=3230&sid=12
im trying to stay with the same brand of gauges but i jsut want confirm with you guys...also how easy is it to get the exhaust manifold off? i've never done it before and i want to get the EGT gauge setup before the snow starts to fall and it isn't easy to work on the car.
-
would the 7ft wire they carry be enough for a diesel rabbit? also would a weld on fitting be beter? Does a fitting come with it or do you just tap the manifold?
whats better 1/8 or 1/4? thanks
-
would the 7ft wire they carry be enough for a diesel rabbit? also would a weld on fitting be beter? Does a fitting come with it or do you just tap the manifold?
whats better 1/8 or 1/4? thanks
In order:
Yes, I think it should be enough.
No, I don't think a weld-on fitting would be better. I'm not sure you can weld to cast iron like that.
BOTH: A fitting comes with it, if I recall, and you have to tap the manifold to install the fitting.
1/4 NPT is pretty big, I wouldn't want to drill that big of a hole in my manifold. Go with 1/8 NPT.
-David
-
I bought one a week or two ago, and in my testing with a propane stove flame, it is very fast reacting and accurate. I'm satisfied. :D
-
1/4 NPT is pretty big, I wouldn't want to drill that big of a hole in my manifold. Go with 1/8 NPT.
-David
I went with what ever came with the VDO and Spruce probes. The mounting adaptors are interchangeable. I drilled and tapped two manifolds, right in in the center of the turbo mounting bolt circle.
One of the manifolds has over 100K miles, lots of boost, and over five years of service with no problems.
Here is the Spruce thermocouple in my 1.5TD project:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0007.jpg)
-
I bought a VDO cockpit international pyrometer and it reacts very slow, like it'll still be climbing when coasting down the other side of a hill. Anyways I don't know much about EGTs but I assume it's a k-type thermocouple, so if I get the aircraft spruce thermocouple will it react faster?
-
the meter itself also has to be fast responding.
some have filters so the signal doesn't bounce and give false readings, that also makes them slow.
but most of the times its just thermal inertia on the sensor.
think as if the heat came to the sensor in a wave, changes mediums from exhaust gases to the sensors metal, travel inside it and then reaches the actual thermocouple.
Spruce's only have a very thin inox covering, hence the response speed.
-
I bought a VDO cockpit international pyrometer and it reacts very slow, like it'll still be climbing when coasting down the other side of a hill. Anyways I don't know much about EGTs but I assume it's a k-type thermocouple, so if I get the aircraft spruce thermocouple will it react faster?
I have a VDO gauge and thermocouple in the 1.6. Its slow.
I have a VDO gauge with a Spruce thermocouple in the 1.5. Its fast.
Get the spruce thermocouple.
-
Screw it, I just took my own advice and bought another Spruce thermocouple for the 1.6.
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/inmisc/10-01475.jpg)
-
i ordered the thermo, but where can i get a vdo egt gauge. cant find a site that sells them that looks good
-
i ordered the thermo, but where can i get a vdo egt gauge. cant find a site that sells them that looks good
surrfman on ebay sells 'em, I think it's like $98 for just a gauge and you'll have to ask him about it, he doesn't list 'em for some reason. While yer at it see if he has a scratched one for cheap. I bought a boost gauge from him for $18 'cause it had a small scratch which I could barely find.
-
where i can i get a hold of him couldn;t find anything on ebay. thanks
-
where i can i get a hold of him couldn;t find anything on ebay. thanks
Try these guys:
http://www.egauges.com/vdo_mult.asp?Type=Pyrometer&Series=Vision&Units=E
(http://www.egauges.com/images/vdo/310-151.jpg)
Lead wires:
Libbybapa had bulk lead wire for very reasonable price, so if you need some contact him first befor buying it off of Egauges.
http://www.egauges.com/vdo_send.asp?Sender=ISSPRO_Pyrometer_Lead
(http://www.egauges.com/images/isspro/Large_d/R660-14.jpg)
OOOO, lookit!:
(http://www.egauges.com/images/vdo/150-015-001K.jpg)
Any one want a brand new, still in the bag, 0 - 30 PSI VDO boost gauge? I might have one for sale now.
-
http://www.egauges.com/vdo_mult.asp?Type=Pyrometer&Series=Cockpit&Units=E
this is the only place i found really. has anyone used them. didn't feel too confident using them.[/quote]
-
http://www.egauges.com/vdo_mult.asp?Type=Pyrometer&Series=Cockpit&Units=E
this is the only place i found really. has anyone used them. didn't feel too confident using them.
[/quote]
I've bought a couple gauges from them. They're OK in my book; fair price, fast shipping. What more do you want?
-
sounds good i'll give them a try.
is there a difference between the $80 vision series and the $70 black cockpit one?
just the way it lights up.
-
The vision series is backlit and looks way cooler, the cockpit one is frontlit, so it looks more stock. I'm gonna have a cockpit EGT gauge and a vision boost gauge, kinda bothers me 'cause I would rather have both vision. :roll:
-
well i ordered the vision one. :D
-
Well I just installed my Aircraft spruce thermocouple yesterday, man what a difference!! It'll actually pause between shifts as I speed up. Max temp in 5th gear going about 83MPH was 1160F. So after I get my turbo on I'll get to crank the fuel up a bit. :twisted:
-
Here's a quick size comparisom.
The VDO thermocouple is in the middle.
The Spruce thermocouple is on the right.
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dieselkraftstoff/SSPX0198.jpg)
The philips screw driver on the left is there for a size reference.
The VDO themocouple is slow.
The Spruce thermocouple is stinky fast.
-
Oh, By the way, The VDO probe uses a 1/4 NPT adaptor. I hozed up and bought a Spruce probe with a 1/8" adaptor. I called Aircraft spruce, and they said they can't just send me the adaptor.
I have the probe mounted with a 1/8" to 1/4" brass adaptor on th 1/8" adaptor
So i have another probe comming and will have a brand new probe, and a used 1/8" adaptor available if anyone needs one.
In the 1.6TD, the Spruce thermocouple almost rises as fast as the boost gauge. It stabilizes at 1450 F on hard acceleration. Pritty high, but its rare that it sees that for more than 10 seconds at a wack. And I have the piston cooling jets helping things out. I always wondered what the max EGT was when I was running the VDO probe, but it took so long to kind of stabilise, I was going over 90 MPH.
-
Quick question about the EGT gauges. I have a VDO EGT gauge and the wiring from it has its own kind of plug to the gauge. Do all EGT gauges have the same kind of electrical connector and are all EGT gauges
supplied with some kind of connector from the gauge to the pyrometer connection?
Thanks, Josh
-
Sorry to resurrect an old thread here... Gonna do the VDO gauge / Spruce thermo. Just want to confirm - I assume it's impossible / a bad idea to try to drill/tap the manifold on the car. ...Or am I being paranoid here?
Thanks!
-
Personally, I would prefer to pull the manifold. I hate trying do things like drill in really awkward places that don't have much room. It will also be far easier to ensure that no chips get into the turbo.
That being said, I've never done it in the car, so maybe it's not as bad as I think. :lol:
-
I've done it both ways. I wouldn't really be all that concerned about getting metal in the manifold, grease the bit and most of the shavings will stick to the drill bit. Its a PITA doing it on the car though. More of a pain than removing the turbo and manifold? Not sure.
Your call.
-
i wonder if you somehow hooked up positive pressure going to the turbo as you drilled it so any shavings/bits would be pushed outward... might be more trouble than its worth though? how about just running the car with an open hole and giving it a good few revs? :twisted: then install the probe and enjoy? 8)
-
I would pull in and drill on a drill press. When I tried to drill mine free hand, at the end of the cutting the bit snags causing the drill to tilt ever so slightly and it cracked the manifold. The second drill was on a press and was perfect. In the car, I think you would be more contrained if you don't have a drill press to use. Towards the end of this page you'll see my EGT drill and taping.
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15633&start=0
-
Just installed one over the last two days. (Spruce thermocouple / VDO Cockpit, that is)
The response is FAST!
(drops about 200-300 in between shifts)
and responds to the slightest throttle input.
If I can make a suggestion,
Jarvis Cutting Tools makes a tap that cuts through cast like butter.
I spent 3 hours with an older (but high quality) tap, and when it broke, bought a brand new set from Harbor Freight.
I moved more material in 5 minutes with the new Jarvis tap than hours with the other two.
Whatever it costs (I dont know: gift from a friend) it is worth every penny.
With this you could easily tap it on the car!
Other than that,
no worries at all!
-Brad
-
Congrads !!! Good to hear :-) My taps also cut like butter w/ a hot knife. Mine are the full set of Craftsman from cir. 1988.
Good to hear there was a great out come.
-
I did mine on the car but of course, I don't have a turbo on yet so I didn't need to worry about shavings. I tapped it with a tap that's been around here for a while, don't know the brand but it worked fine.
-
Hey ive got a question.do you guys bend the stainless part of the lead to get furthe rinto the stream?Im afraid to bend it,and my probe is only 1/4"of the way in the stream
-
Hey ive got a question.do you guys bend the stainless part of the lead to get furthe rinto the stream?Im afraid to bend it,and my probe is only 1/4"of the way in the stream
I would not bent it. You risk cracking the tube and pinching the thermocouple leads. I placed mine at a point where the probe is pointing into a runner.
-
I would do what ya had to to get in in the stream more.
I've bent then in the past to get it where I wanted it. Not much maybe 3/16" or so.
The last time I took off my turbo I bent the end over on accident and had to bend it back to get it off the manifold.
No cracks and works fine, I'm saying this is a good thing but if I actually wanted my gauge to read accuratly I would do what I could to make it happen.