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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: vwroadkill on April 14, 2014, 10:41:25 pm

Title: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 14, 2014, 10:41:25 pm
here are my questions?
is this things supposed to be an absolute *** to start on a 70 degree day?
I cant for the life of me figure out what is ok oil consumption?
here are the details
 out of the crate td motor... complete hydro engine... brand new
rebuilt injectors from local reputable bosch service company.
remaned injection pump
head gasket torqued after first heat cycle... waiting for mileage to do second re torque.
this thing is driving good when I can get it started...
what am I doing wrong? or am I(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg585/dekane/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140214_155308388_zpscf628e57.jpg) (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/dekane/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140214_155308388_zpscf628e57.jpg.html)(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg585/dekane/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140207_175609998_zpsbddfd10a.jpg) (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/dekane/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140207_175609998_zpsbddfd10a.jpg.html)(http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg585/dekane/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140207_175625347_zps2dd3b320.jpg) (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/dekane/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140207_175625347_zps2dd3b320.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on April 14, 2014, 10:46:34 pm
You still need glow plugs.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 14, 2014, 10:48:54 pm
brand new.. installed they have sixty miles on them... maybe ten hours. idle time and the like
even checked voltage on them.. I am getting like 11.47. on my meter
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: damac on April 14, 2014, 10:55:26 pm
I live in bay area where the coldest I have driven in the teens.

On my maintained cars, each one will start practically instantly with cold start lever out and one cycle of the glowplugs.

I also end up redoing all ground/power leads because of stereos and use tdi auto starter.

I end up for whatever reason timing my cars real close to the max side of advance according to bently.


so if the mechanics are good, you need to make sure the glowplugs are lighting up and for how long, make sure pump isn't ingesting a bunch of air upon first start of the day, and have a healthy cranking system with the correct timing.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 14, 2014, 11:02:26 pm
the car turns over great...
I have new, large battery cables
fresh fuel filter... changed when I installed engine..
air leaks hmmm no bubbles in clear new fuel lines
I will check the fusable link but I have voltage on both sides
am going to check compression in the morning, cold
before today she started with no problems.. drove it to work.. could not get it to start when I was prepared to go home.. so she is sitting at work. I had to get a ride home
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Dakotakid on April 15, 2014, 01:25:00 am
Well, out of curiosity: "crate" engine from where?
What was in the crate....long block.....short block......?
"Brand new" to me would be some sort of hold-over engine from Germany. With a brand new block and pistons and everything. Brand new virgin equipment.....not some clapped out crap which was rebuilt.

Do you mean this engine was "rebuilt" from somewhere? No, I am not being ridiculously picky. All this info is pertinent. Some guys' idea of "rebuilds" is stuff I run like hell from....seriously.

For your question:  yes, a properly rebuilt engine should fire right up. Maybe a few more cranks until the rings seat....but, ya.....fire right up. All of mine certainly have.

Are you SURE you have it properly timed (pump ain't 180 out etc.). And, a poor installation of front seal in that pump could be loosing prime. Just because a pump shop has a good reputation generally doesn't ENSURE success. Sometimes, someone makes a mistake on install or whatever. I mean the guys in MY local pump shop are more concerned with making sure they have a big enough lump of snoose in their lip than whether or not they get a seal in right! THAT is one of the reasons I never go through their front door.

So, you have had this "new" engine running...right? How many times.....how long (miles)? Did it pull good when running? did it idle good without lumps, etc.?  Did it start back up again if you shut it off and went in and got a can of pop or something?

And, no we can't figure out if you are having "bad oil consumption" until you give us a hint as to where your's is at.

Personally, I would refrain from compression testing it right now. That's a lot of work for something that sort of sounds like a fuel delivery or glow plug problem to me.

Slow down....take a deep breath. I've talked to you before and always found you to be a positive guy. Let's take a reasonable approach to this. Right now, you have sort of bounced in with the tumble weeds. More info, please.

Edit: I now see that you said 60 miles. One thing to note (which I find a bit troubling in your story) is that "idle-time" on a fresh set of rings is bad news. Believe it or no, firing them up and rolling off is sort of a coveted mindset. Yes, I know that is hard when you are worried about oil leaks, etc. If a guy lets these sit around idling without load, it can postpone or rule-out a good seating of rings.

Next question is what brand of rings (please say Goetze!).
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 15, 2014, 07:41:31 am
ok... I get what your saying about the pump.. I will call the guy that remaned it and chat with him
I believe the engine is new from VW, I found these in a stash out west on one of my trips to California last year to fight fires
I know I may not have enough miles to properly seat the rings yet, but all of a sudden she just wont start, I seems to be missing something. I drive in stop and go traffic to work. 18 miles one way.. should be good for engine varying rpms . oil consumption is not a lot.. that is why I have asked
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: theman53 on April 15, 2014, 09:51:16 am
Tons of stuff to look at as broad as this is, but how old is the starter and did you replace the starter bushing in your trans? It takes some speed to crank these over especially if the timing is advanced a bit and the engine is warm.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on April 15, 2014, 12:01:14 pm
Sometimes, issues can arise where the glow plug sensor/circuit is too keen to assess ambient temperature, as being OK to discard power to glowplugs.
Thus it can start when overnight cold, and struggle when coolant is body temp or higher.

Try unplugging sensor on end of cylinder head. Not sure of the air/con set-up version...
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Dakotakid on April 15, 2014, 01:08:06 pm
Wow, an honest to Geed new short block. I am so jealous! Was that warehouse hard to break into? New head, too?
Glow plug fuse good, right? Glow plug relay good? The reason I ask that is that currently, I have a glow plug relay on the way out and it occasionally decides not to kick on.

I have always wondered if a long-term storage crate engine has a tendency to have difficulty expanding the rings after sitting so long. Probably not. But, any time I rebuilt one, I always tried to get it running as soon as possible after assembly.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: RabbitJockey on April 15, 2014, 01:30:53 pm
if you are burning lots of oil, pull the plugs and make sure the tips aren't burnt off them.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: RustyCaddy on April 15, 2014, 02:07:59 pm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-1993-VW-1-6L-4-Cyl-Turbo-Diesel-New-OEM-Short-Block-Codes-RA-SB-/301153967817?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item461e2cdec9&vxp=mtr

if only i was made of money

 ;D

Sorry about the hijack
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 15, 2014, 02:51:24 pm
I got the engine... with head, hydro.. both in same box not put together. I have a few friends in the Sacramento area, that helped me source the motor and head.. that being said.
the discussion of how long the motor has been in the crate. best I can figure with the date stamps is 1997.so we, I mean me and my group of beer drinking{not buying} gearheads are worried that the motor sat to long and may need rings.
 the motor came with an aluminum oil pan which I cant use.
I assembled the items that came, followed tech data to the letter...
all items on the engine are NEW or remaned.. please don't ask me how much... I don't want to know myself. I have removed all evidence of monies spent.
starter new
injectors serviced and matched, pump was done with the injectors.
glow plugs new out of box
alternator re-maned
pulleys and the like cleaned and painted
turbo was rebuilt,
clutch and pp new sachs factory spec
radiator new
all new hoses and belts
and yes Rabbit jockey. I believe that is the company.. my buddy has an account with them..I probably can get another for the price I payed  if anyone is wanting one
being that said.. this is my first diesel... I did not expect the learning curve to be all that it is right now.


Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Dakotakid on April 15, 2014, 06:25:15 pm
If you had it running once.....by the way, how DID you get it running the first time? Or times?
You can run the glow plugs straight off the battery (with another wire and electrical clothes pin clip or something) to quickly see if they will glow and start the engine.

I thought you were running an older n/a for quite awhile prior to this.
PLEASE do NOT give into the temptation to use ether. If you are sure the timing is all good, you can gently pull start it.
When you lay under the car and turn the crankshaft with a wrench, how much resistance you got? Does it clearly tend to break your wrist at 4 points in the 360 turn?

Oh, if you eventually determine you need rings, I know the BESTEST (cheapest) place to buy Goetze rings.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 15, 2014, 09:47:37 pm
dakotakid... the first time I have had it running. it started pretty easy... and then on the second day she decided to not run that was when we towed it with a four wheeler.. started right up.
I don't have the four wheeler till tomorrow.
I will take the voltage straight from the battery  to the gps and see whats what.. I talked to the shop owner that did the pump.. he is going to stop by Friday if it still wont start.. if I get it before he said drive it to the shop.
still thinking of going with a compression test... to check and see ..
any who...I will be in Cheyenne, WY on the 27th of april... you my friend have a beer waiting for you if you chose to stop by
I was running an older engine for a while till it puked...its now in a 80 rabbit gl swallow tail.. re ringed.. I put that engine together with a buddy of mine for him to drive to work
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Dakotakid on April 16, 2014, 12:37:39 am
Timing marks still all set?
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 16, 2014, 08:55:04 am
I towed the car this morning and got it started... I got a ton of white smoke... I am worried that the rings sat too long with out being moved.. I will call the guy that I bought the engine from and discuss with him
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on April 16, 2014, 11:42:09 am
If it runs well enough to idle, then try altering the timing whilst running...

 I don't think that new rings would stick in, if left.

Old and weak and half the radial thickness of new, might though.

Sticking injectors, or timing way out is more likely. 
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Dakotakid on April 16, 2014, 01:29:57 pm
Timing sounds retarded. Lean top of pump toward engine. Get a dial gauge (indicator) and set pump intelligently.
Hillbilly crap is for just that ^^^.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on April 16, 2014, 03:59:08 pm
Yea forget Hillbilly; that's for a bunch of inbred unintelligent Americans, or Limeys for that matter, instead go for Cognitive Iterations
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 16, 2014, 04:19:43 pm
I will check timing.... two different ideas... we lost libby and 8v... ya'll ease up... ps I am southern ya know.
back to subject... I will this evening take a shot at whats what... got side tracked with that stupid thing called a job
re-time.. and today I will install the td fuel lines that I got..
thanks for the input.. I need it
Dan
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on April 16, 2014, 10:29:17 pm
brand new.. installed they have sixty miles on them... maybe ten hours. idle time and the like
even checked voltage on them.. I am getting like 11.47. on my meter
one thing is, 11.xx volts are low at glow plugs, you should have north of 12.xx v at gps, if you measure volts at rail its only really telling you at least 1 glow plug is working. if this is the case you need to check into this, as it can be near impossible to start even in warmer temps, even at 90f I glow,,some. this can also cause smoke when engine is cold. as engine warms up smoke should clear up,
if it is gl plugs, it could even be something simple such as engine grounding.

1st get voltage reading at battery, it should be 12.5v apx. and voltage reading should be similar at glow plugs, when cycled on. then go from there, it could be bad plug(s).(?), or low battery charge.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Mark(The Miser)UK on April 17, 2014, 06:26:55 am
brand new.. installed they have sixty miles on them... maybe ten hours. idle time and the like
even checked voltage on them.. I am getting like 11.47. on my meter
one thing is, 11.xx volts are low at glow plugs, you should have north of 12.xx v at gps, if you measure volts at rail its only really telling you at least 1 glow plug is working. if this is the case you need to check into this, as it can be near impossible to start even in warmer temps, even at 90f I glow,,some. this can also cause smoke when engine is cold. as engine warms up smoke should clear up,
if it is gl plugs, it could even be something simple such as engine grounding.

1st get voltage reading at battery, it should be 12.5v apx. and voltage reading should be similar at glow plugs, when cycled on. then go from there, it could be bad plug(s).(?), or low battery charge.
You guys have such big batteries ;D...
I thought glow plugs were rated to operate @ 11V
My battery is getting a little tired, and is about 12.6V, unloaded but it still starts easily; but not much in reserve if a problem develops.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: TylerDurden on April 17, 2014, 06:55:17 am
one thing is, 11.xx volts are low at glow plugs, you should have north of 12.xx v at gps, if you measure volts at rail its only really telling you at least 1 glow plug is working. if this is the case you need to check into this, as it can be near impossible to start even in warmer temps, even at 90f I glow,,some. this can also cause smoke when engine is cold. as engine warms up smoke should clear up,
if it is gl plugs, it could even be something simple such as engine grounding.

1st get voltage reading at battery, it should be 12.5v apx. and voltage reading should be similar at glow plugs, when cycled on. then go from there, it could be bad plug(s).(?), or low battery charge.
Near everything stated here is bullocks.

Of course there is voltage drop when energizing the GPs.  ::)
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 17, 2014, 03:19:28 pm
one thing is, 11.xx volts are low at glow plugs, you should have north of 12.xx v at gps, if you measure volts at rail its only really telling you at least 1 glow plug is working. if this is the case you need to check into this, as it can be near impossible to start even in warmer temps, even at 90f I glow,,some. this can also cause smoke when engine is cold. as engine warms up smoke should clear up,
if it is gl plugs, it could even be something simple such as engine grounding.

1st get voltage reading at battery, it should be 12.5v apx. and voltage reading should be similar at glow plugs, when cycled on. then go from there, it could be bad plug(s).(?), or low battery charge.
Near everything stated here is bullocks.

Of course there is voltage drop when energizing the GPs.  ::)

Agree, all BS.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 17, 2014, 04:25:18 pm
I did straight voltage to the gps...still wont start.. changed the relay no help... I still get 11.xx on the voltage.. battery is good..
new from advance auto..
tonight I check compression...finally have a little more time...
what to do, hmm
called the guy that I bought the engine from, he said he will back his engine, so no worries for now... he also stated If I crack open the engine to change rings without consulting him. its officially my problem. kinda get what he is saying, but dam..
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 17, 2014, 05:11:02 pm
Don't waste your time (like pimping the glow plugs, bigger wires or bigger battery) trying to get glow plug voltage higher than 11 v. It's not going to happen. Those glow plugs are 11 V plugs and will pull the battery voltage down to 11 V.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Gizmoman on April 17, 2014, 09:59:45 pm
. . .
before today she started with no problems.. drove it to work.. could not get it to start when I was prepared to go home.. so she is sitting at work. I had to get a ride home
Based on the above statement, the issue appears to be intermittent.
IP seals, fuel filter or lines leaking air, or GP electrical (possibly the relay malfunctioning).

Just a WAG
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on April 17, 2014, 10:01:16 pm
not bs at all, if he has a low v reading at glow plugs it can lead to hard cold starting and puke smoke,, for a little,, and run rough at first. funny people take a voltage reading and don't check battery voltage first. he says he got it to start by towing, and it was smoky, glow problems can be like this. although it will stop smoking rather quickly. if you have 12.5v or so at battery that's ok, but low voltage at glow plugs can lead to hard starting.
either its an electrical problem, such as glow plugs, or its a fueling problem.(timing problem included as is possible pump timing went off) as long as cam timing hasn't jumped somehow or slipped you wont damage engine. check all timing bolts and recheck timing. as long as you don't have some other fueling problem, such as a restriction in a line, or such. I just find crank tdc and use dial indicator and get reading, optional to remove valve cover, at first, if your sure cam is correctly timed. is your timing belt tensioner tight?still tight? did you put proper tension on belt. so id pop timing cover 1st and check that end 1st.
don't figure you have air in fuel lines, as he says he checked that.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: TylerDurden on April 18, 2014, 02:17:10 pm
Measured at the battery:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_WRplU3oYqQ/U1Frg88AJ-I/AAAAAAAABdo/qd6XB0Lq_bc/s640/GP-voltageDrop.jpg)

Starts first time, every time... even at 0oF
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 18, 2014, 05:20:05 pm
thanks Tyler.. I don't believe I have a gp issue...I use my fluke meter and what I got and what you are showing the variations can be because of the meter and such
 gizmoman, you maybe on too something.. but I am still leaning towards rings...the gentleman that rebuilt the pump came by today and messed around with the pump, still wont start with out. towing it.
I am still just confused, I will get this puppy running. 
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 18, 2014, 05:32:09 pm
............. the first time I have had it running. it started pretty easy... and then on the second day she decided to not run that was when we towed it with a four wheeler.. started right up.
.......

This is important. What changed all of a sudden? You say the battery and glow plugs are new and operational. Did the starter motor take a dive? Did an air leak in the fuel system develop? Did the timing change? Did the engine lose compression? They all need to be checked.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 18, 2014, 06:16:20 pm
nothing changed on my end that I know of..
compression is the one thing I am concerned about.. new engine
starter spins over great..
timing is set at 94mm...as I see it on the gauge..
fuel filter and system could be suspect.. but I do not have a lopey idle..or air in the lines.
sadly I do not have like 6 hrs to just get in the car and drive..
so it is what it is
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: theman53 on April 18, 2014, 06:18:41 pm
Did you say that the crank, cam, and IP are still in good time?
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 18, 2014, 06:20:11 pm
Where were you looking when you say no air in the lines? The correct place is a clear line from IP return  to tank. Clear line on the inlet is only half the story.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 18, 2014, 06:26:26 pm
yes Theman.. the timing is correct and all aligned
I don't have a clear line from IP to tank I will change this .. I will chase the line to the tank and check it out thank you eco..
Title: Re:
Post by: wolf_walker on April 18, 2014, 08:23:24 pm
Compression check, get it out of the way and out of the back of your mind.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 19, 2014, 12:02:28 am
I am betting on air in the IP and not a sudden loss of compression on a brand new engine that was starting/ running well the day before.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on April 21, 2014, 09:26:32 pm
there's only so much it could be, you say you can get it started by towing; it has a lot of smoke when you do get it to run? what color?white?does it still smoke when it gets some warm?
you say your timing is on,, so that rules that out,,all bolts accounted for?(torque?)and belt tension/and tensioner.
it could also be an air intake restriction, not necessarily likely, but possible, check all air passages and filter.
it could also be compression, you have a brand new motor, right? so compression is building up as you break-it-in.
it could be electrical, glow plugs are an easy out for me; due to the fact he has hard starting problems.
air in fuel lines seem most likely right now; to me. check fuel lines into pump, etc. or perhaps its clogged injector(s)or similar problem. a little dirt in this system can do you bad(fuel system).
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Gizmoman on April 21, 2014, 11:50:32 pm
. . .
before today she started with no problems.. drove it to work.. could not get it to start when I was prepared to go home.. so she is sitting at work. I had to get a ride home
OK, I'll take another stab at it based on the above and the comment about the timing belt possibly being too tight* (EDIT - *or maybe that was a different thread).

Started fine but with timing belt too tight - by the time you got to work the IP bearings took a major hit and now your getting air in the IP.

Keep us posted
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 22, 2014, 05:15:59 pm
ok. I got the compression test out of the way... 480- to 505.. average across the board... so
here is my plan...
change to another fuel filter... pull fuel out of a fresh can of diesel... to filter to pump.. and see whats what.
I installed the lines that I received from burn your money.. reset the timing just to be sure set it at 96.
and the engine still would not start till towed...
I spent a about 30 minutes chatting with the guy that built the pump.. these are his Idea's.
if this doesn't work.. he said to pull pump and bring it back to him and he will put it on the bench tester.
having eliminated the compression. hopefully the pump, I will see if I didn't pick up some crap in the tank and clog the filter.
if that is the case. I will rip out the fuel system and clean it out.
thanks for the input... gps where never the issue .. took each out and tested each one... burned the crap out of my hand so they work..lol
seemingly I believe now. its a fuel issue
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 22, 2014, 05:52:21 pm
What did the clear return to tank line look like after you got it tow started? Was it a solid stream of fuel or full of bubbles?
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on April 22, 2014, 08:47:05 pm
you haven't addressed any possibility of air at inlet side of fuel system, I think it is; any air in fuel lines up to pump including before filter, to past filter/to pump. clear fuel lines help.(you may have to start at fuel tank lines).
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 22, 2014, 08:47:30 pm
well the pump will be returned to the rebuilder.. steady stream of bubbles after getting it started.. would not start after a twenty minute drive.. vacuum... or lack of would not let it begin to catch..
sucks but I am confident the rebuilder will fix it...
after 4 months of spending money and time.. time I would not ever be able to recover... this just erks me to no end...
so I am putting a lot of faith in the pump being finish right
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Toby on April 22, 2014, 09:23:35 pm
ITS NOT THE PUMP!!!!

If you have a steady stream of bubbles in the clear return line, you have found the problem. If you keep farting around with things that are very unlikely to be the problem you are quite likely to create some new problems.

Get a clear line on the inlet side of the pump. Any other kind of crap on the input side is likely to be the problem. What you are seeing is almost always an air leak.

If you want to be sure, pinch off the inlet and return lines and put a vacuum pump on the injector return line on the OUT banjo fitting. You should be able to pull a vacuum on the pump that should hold for a while. If it does not, remove the banjo fitting from the fuel intake of the IP and seal that with a finger and try again. If it still won't hold vacuum pull the hose off the Return banjo and plug BOTH Inlet and Return with a finger and try to pull a vacuum on the IP. If you can't it IS the IP.

Like I said before, replace whatever is between the IP and the filter with a factory clear line and you should be fine. I bought a nice-ish 2 door diesel Rabbit for $350 that was running 10 minutes after I got it home. All because of a home brew line between IP and filter.

If not you have a leak at the filter, or a clogged filter, or a bunch of algae in the sock or the tank or some such problem.

So....
Stop randomly jumping around and listening to people who have no clue how to troubleshoot. Figure out what the problem is rather than just replacing/changing things. Its not hard; you just have to do things in the correct order and not skip steps because you are "sure" that it is not the problem.



Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 22, 2014, 10:23:20 pm
OK its not the pump...I will have fuel lines here by Friday... if work doesn't get in the way...
not to disrespect anybody.. but I have thought thru every trouble shooting aspect.. some of the input here is valuable.. and I get what your saying about others...
I will do the vacuum test like you have described tomorrow...THANK YOU... just so happen to have a vacuum pump.
to any of ya'll that have contributed, if your in the Cheyenne WY area next week... I will be there for my annual fire fighting recertification. the Beer is ON me.
the question now is.. what is the life of a fuel line on these trucks... between the low sulfur and the older diesel fuel is there an excepted life.. time change item..
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Dakotakid on April 23, 2014, 12:49:01 am
Well, the pickups do utilize a short piece of woven-braided fuel line immediately where fuel exits the bottom of the tank and connects to the steel fuel line through the body.

And, I have seen pickup fuel tanks rust internally even when fuel is in them. (long live the Mk. II plastic tanks!).

Perhaps you should perform a séance and determine why this rig is pissed oooooof!
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on April 23, 2014, 03:23:49 am
check that you don't have some kind of leak before pump, there by letting air in,(before pump). before filter and after filter/before pump lines.and filter is sealed.or also new filter.
?new lines and hose clamps?.i use standard clamps, not fuel clamps, you can put a wrench(1/4"i guess)and snug good.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on April 23, 2014, 10:56:09 am
ok. I got the compression test out of the way... 480- to 505.. average across the board... so
here is my plan...
change to another fuel filter... pull fuel out of a fresh can of diesel... to filter to pump.. and see whats what.
I installed the lines that I received from burn your money.. reset the timing just to be sure set it at 96.
and the engine still would not start till towed...
I spent a about 30 minutes chatting with the guy that built the pump.. these are his Idea's.
if this doesn't work.. he said to pull pump and bring it back to him and he will put it on the bench tester.
having eliminated the compression. hopefully the pump, I will see if I didn't pick up some crap in the tank and clog the filter.
if that is the case. I will rip out the fuel system and clean it out.
thanks for the input... gps where never the issue .. took each out and tested each one... burned the crap out of my hand so they work..lol
seemingly I believe now. its a fuel issue

OK so you did all this and did not do the clear return to tank line till I beat it out of you lol? You said you had no air in the lines, which lines were you looking at? That may provide clues so we can tell you where not to look and where you should look next. The idea behind the clear return to tank line is that no matter where the air is coming from, it will all end up in the return to tank line, and if you have bubbles there, then you start to isolate where the air is coming from. If the line you said have no bubbles was the inlet to IP, then everything before that line is ok so don't waste time looking there. Are there any wetness from fuel anywhere? All fuel connections should be totally dry. Air can get into the IP from the daisy chain return lines if they even have a slight leak by siphon action just from sitting since that is the highest point of the fuel system. I doubt the problem is in your IP since it is newly rebuilt. I wouldn't bother testing the IP with the MityVac untill you have tested everything else in the fuel system. OK this is your first diesel. We should take it easy on you. lol
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on April 26, 2014, 04:38:19 pm
well I changed every 5/16 and 1/2 inch fuel line with diesel rated lines.. did not get the new clear fuel line for the return.. not in stock locally and the ones I ordered have been put on back order.. have a friend that is going to the local shop near his neck of the woods  today to see if they have any.
did learn a lot.. the hoses coming off the tank were brittle and failed when touched.. thus dowsing me in diesel... burns real bad when you get in the eyes...ouch..
got it started but I still have some bubbles in the supply line. its clear.. I installed about a year ago... when I shut it off the bubbles go back to the filter. and you have to spin it over a lot for it to start.
I will be in Cheyenne WY tomorrow. so all work will be done when I return in a week
thanks

Dan

Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on May 08, 2014, 10:25:14 pm
well I have returned from a snow covered Cheyenne WY... note to self... do not live there... arrived in the warm and sunny south..
and again.. the little POS wont start... I even put a lift pump on the car.. it will not start with out towing.. when its cold. ugh
I feel like starting over...
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on May 10, 2014, 07:52:10 am
well I changed every 5/16 and 1/2 inch fuel line with diesel rated lines.. did not get the new clear fuel line for the return.. not in stock locally and the ones I ordered have been put on back order..
.....

There are no 1/2 in fuel lines??? You must enjoy pull starting. Have you tried bleeding the air out to start? Here's how:

1. undo inj #1 nut 1/4 turn
2. Glow then crank for 15 sec spurts till it starts
3. Tighten inj nut

If it starts, you have more air leaks to find and fix. Do the easy stuff first. I.e. don't blame and pull the IP first.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: Dakotakid on May 12, 2014, 11:50:47 pm
Hey Dano.....shoveling snow down there?
ha-ha...better you than me........
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on May 13, 2014, 10:53:35 pm
Dakota, I returned from Cheyenne last week. I have never de-iced an airplane to train for fire fighting... the air drops produced all kinds of ice ... must have been awesome to see from the ground.
well as for the  pick up.. Time has conspired against me.. I had a goal to be driving the car before Memorial day weekend... well Uncle Sammy has plans for that weekend, so I will turn my truck over to a local diesel mech. to see where I have gone wrong... I have done all I am gonna do..I just want to drive it... sadly I can take any system from a C-130 disassemble and rebuild and re install  but this little truck has me baffled...I just don't have the training and the time.. I leave for the Middle east and such within the next few weeks. so I have to change priorities
 I will post up what has gone on with the truck.
thanks..
Dan
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on May 14, 2014, 02:12:50 am
You probably should  have gone with the C130 motor ;D
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on May 14, 2014, 10:08:35 am
..... I have done all I am gonna do..I just want to drive it... sadly I can take any system from a C-130 disassemble and rebuild and re install  but this little truck has me baffled...I just don't have the training and the time.. I leave for the Middle east and such within the next few weeks. so I have to change priorities
 I will post up what has gone on with the truck.
thanks..
Dan

Awww you not giving in already?  ;D Reading back at your old posts from Feb 2013, it appears that you have been having air problems all along even though you said way back  that you have no air bubbles, but you were not (and still have not) looked in the right place, i.e. the return to tank hose. That is THE place to look for air bubbles. If you see air there, you just have to systematically isolate and fix whatever is leaking using a MityVac or other techniques. It is not difficult, you just have to understand some basic principles and laws of physics.

Air is compressible, fuel is not. If there is air in the IP, the air compresses instead of the fuel and the high pressure pump will not be able to generate enough pressure to pop the injectors and that is why your engine won't start. Pull starting works because the engine can be spun  much faster than the starter motor which primes (removes most of the air) the IP in the process and the engine starts, until air gets into the IP again when it sits  by siphon action.

Unless you know the shop as personal friends you can trust, you may be hit with more than what it actually needs. Shops are there to make money, not save you money, and can cause more problems if they are not  VW IDI diesel savvy.

Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: VW_Commuter on May 14, 2014, 03:43:43 pm
Do you still have the water trap under the car?  They are notorious for allowing air in the system since they are on the suction side of the pump, are all pushing 25+ years old, and are made of plastic and sit under the vehicle so they are subject to damage (i.e. cracks).  If it's still in the fuel system I would bypass as a first step to eliminate the possibility of sucking air in through it.  Once that is done you have to just troubleshoot the system.  If you are getting air in the fuel system (as evidenced by bubbles in the 'clear' (probably yellowish by now if it's original) return line.  If you do have air then you have to track it down as others have stated.  A diesel only needs 3 things to run - air, compression, and fuel injected at the right time.  If you think about it if you have air in your fuel system the only place it can come in at is where the fuel system is under a vacuum which is between the tank and the inlet to the injection pump.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: scrounger on June 15, 2014, 07:13:01 pm
Do you have a hot wire to the fuel shutoff on the injector pump.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: vwroadkill on June 22, 2014, 08:23:48 am
I am HAPPY To report... the truck runs and drives Like a new motor should... after many days of not giving up at the pump shop ... the new guy employee showed his Boss{owner} up tore pump off truck resealed and pointed out to his boss that the pump was 180 out internally... don't know what to say to that... so after three month of back and forth  I HAVE my truck running...sadly I leave in a few days for the MIDDLE EAST.. wish me luck...so this morning I am going to my dads house take him for a ride and finish packing for my journey ahead.
I wish to say thank YOU to all who have offered input... all was welcomed... some made me laugh....
Dan
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: scrounger on June 22, 2014, 08:58:30 am
Congrats on getting your little truck rolling. Be safe in the sandbox.
Title: Re: 1.6td break in
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on June 22, 2014, 09:57:42 am
Congrats on getting the motor running finally. I am surprised the pump shop got it 180 deg out. Someone correct me if I am wrong but I think the only way that can happen is the cam disk was put in wrong. You said the new guy resealed the pump again, suggesting the first reseal job was also botched? Be safe over there!