VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => mTDI Mechanical TDI Conversions => Topic started by: Zeitgeist on March 31, 2021, 01:09:38 am
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I thought I'd start up new thread about an engine swap I'm about to begin on a friend's '86 Westfalia hightop Club Joker Syncro. It currently has a tired AAZ that has ok power, but is rough running and smokey when cold, and just doesn't have the oomph needed for this heavy rig.
I just ran up to Tacoma to pick up a fairly low mileage AHU shipped from Quality German in SoCal. Yes, I know they have a checkered history, but the transaction was easy and professional. My friend also wanted a low mileage engine, and those don't exist over here any longer. The van has a nice liquid to air IC that I just completely renovated, but I'm not sure what to do with the exhaust, as in carry over the AAZ manifold and turbo, or figure out something else with the AHU stuff. I bought one of Libby's last 12mm mTDI pumps, which I also have on my own ALH Vanagon. That van was used to haul this AHU today.
Any recommendations for a replacement exhaust manifold and turbo arrangement? My ALH has a generic T3 flanged manifold with a custom adapter and GT2052 turbo. It's a great setup, but it would require that I completely redo the IC and exhaust plumbing on this AHU. I'd rather use one of the stock exhaust manifolds and bolt a different turbo on that, which hopefully would just need some exhaust plumbing work.
Thoughts?
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I forgot that the AAZ has a JX 1.6TD exhaust, so I believe the turbo is a K14. I think it needs to be rebuilt, so perhaps I'll just look for a new K14 and call it good.
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The AAZ K14 is decent.
I look forward to hearing more.
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I dropped the pump bracket off for machining today. I stripped the AHU down yesterday, and overall it looks pretty good, but the intake ports were extremely occluded with soot. Eliminating the EGR will resolve that. I'll be putting in an order for general maintenance stuff I want to do while I've got the engine out--all the usual suspects including the pilot bearing.
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At this point I'd recommend the Dual Mass Flywheel and for installing it you'll need the TDI Vanagon input shaft.
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Do you know of a good supplier for the flywheel and input shaft?
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The last DMF I got from Amazon for $215 shipped. The 17-050 kit fits fine with the TDI Vanagon input shaft. I think that T3 Technique might sell the shaft, but I have not purchased it there. I have purchased them here:
https://www.vwbulliparts.de/vw-t3-kupplungsdorn/getriebeeingangswelle-tdi-umbau-auf-org-golf-tdi.html
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Thanks, I just found a 17-050 on ebay for $215. I assume the stock Vanagon TO bearing will work with this pressure plate. Any clearancing needed for the factory diesel bellhousing? I honestly know absolutely nothing about DMFs, and hadn't budgeted for this expense, but it sounds like solid insurance to help preserve the precious trans in this van.
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As you say, I think the DMF is good protection for the trans.
There is a small a mount of clearancing required in the bell-housing. I've done two of them and although the bell-housings are not all exactly the same, the area that needed attention was basically the same.
Here's a pic of the most recent one I did:
(https://i.imgur.com/iJ2nZuyh.jpg)
I used a rotary rasp. The nose of the stock DV starter will pinch the edge of the flywheel also, when bolted up. A little grinding at the nose will fix it. The TDI starter with adapter does not suffer from that issue.
Yes, the diesel vanaogn throwout bearing will work with that pressure plate. You'll need to mark TDC.
I'm not sure if I sent this to you before, but this is the area of the timing belt backing plate that needs to be removed. It needs to allow the boss that is cast into the nose of the pump to rotate for timing adjustment:
(https://i.imgur.com/2YCjFiZh.jpg)
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I dropped the pump bracket off at a local machine shop a couple weeks ago, but they got back to me today to say that they would have to build a jig and bill me for at least two hours @ $100 per. That seems kinda silly for what it is, so I picked it up and will try my hand at chucking it onto my lathe bed and using the four jaw as a fly cutter...or whatever else I can find to cut a centered 68mm hole.
This site really bothers my browser, which constantly kicks me out of login status.
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What Browser are you using? I use both Edge and Chrome and never have that sort of problem.
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I'm using Firefox that I recently updated, which caused all these issues. Prior to that I would get periodically bumped out of my logged in status, but my credentials were cached and I could re-log in. Now, the browser doesn't like the security settings of the log in process here, so it won't allow my credentials to be cached. It's gone from slight annoyance to downright unpleasant.
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I would try a session on Chrome just to see what the performance is compared to Fired Farts.
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I have a jig set up for my Smithy mill/lathe, $50 to machine the bracket, should you or anyone else need it done.
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Thanks Karl, I took you up on your offer even though I hadn't even seen this post. The pump is mounted and awaiting a timing belt.
I of course didn't bother to mark TDC when I was tearing down the engine, and much to my surprise there aren't any hash marks on the crank or flywheels from either the AAZ or AHU. Since I pulled the bellhousing to install the DMF input shaft, I'll use it to mark the new flywheel for TDC, and I guess I'll use a dial indicator through the injector hole to determine crank TDC. Kinda annoying, but doable.
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Dial indicator works. I've also used a small clear tube from a glow plug hole to a container of water to find TDC and that works accurately also. I'm not sure which I prefer.
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I've tried the stick and dial indicator in both the injector and glow hole, but I can't get an accurate enough measurement due to it moving laterally or binding in the holes. I'll try the hose and water trick next. I can't find any TDC marks on the flywheel. I don't know how they timed either the AAZ or the AHU.
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The stock diesel vanagon TDC mark is actually on the pressure plate. It is a V-notch between two small humps.
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The hose/water method works great for finding TDC, though. I grease around the hose at the glow plug to make sure it isn't leaking. I've done it several times now and it has proven to be accurate. I like to go each direction to TDC also to double-check.
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The stock diesel vanagon TDC mark is actually on the pressure plate. It is a V-notch between two small humps.
The AAZ had a red South Bend pressure plate with no vee. I'm also not familiar with the type of flywheel they used, as it's 280mm and not 215mm like the NA diesels. Upon closer the inspection, the ring gear appears to have a yellow paint mark on one of the teeth. The engine is still on my stand, so I can't yet tell if it corresponds with TDC. The AAZ was swapped in the Netherlands, so who knows what kind of parts they used throughout. The fuel filter they used was for a Polo and some Seat model, and of course was not available over here.
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Ive had luck ordering euro parts that were only available overseas from this website. They ship to the USA :)
https://www.micksgarage.com/home
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That little yellow paint mark on one of the ring gear teeth turned out to be TDC. It appears that a Mk3 flywheel was chucked into a lathe and turned down to fit into the diesel bellhousing. They took a lot of meat off, and it's considerably lighter.
I'll have to research a Mk4 or Mk5 manual, but are the DMFs intended to be installed as a complete unit, as in just torqued onto the crank through the already bolted on pressure plate?
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Yes, the DMF can be installed as an assembled unit. Nifty feature, IMO.
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Is there supposed to be some kind of spacer between the DMF and crank hub? I'm getting serious interference that locks up the crank, and I haven't even torqued it down yet. I may need to delete the splash guard in order to free up the space.
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The DMF does not require any sort of spacer. However, the stock diesel vanagon intermediate plate will not fit without being significantly modified. There is a totally flat version offered by some vendors.
Here's the 1-part version:
https://www.vwbulliparts.de/vw-t3-abdeckblech-zum-schwungrad.html
Here's a 2-part version that makes oil pan removal easier when engine/trans are in place:
https://www.brickwerks.co.uk/t3-parts/engine-conversion-parts/1-9d-td-tdi/clutch/flywheel-cover-plates-t3-228mm-clutch.html
I have made one before by tracing the bell housing and cutting from sheet metal using a metal cutting blade in a hand jigsaw for that 'high end ghetto' finished product. I have also seen where someone cut the offending material off the stock diesel-vanagon plate. If taking that route, it would be possible to weld in a flat piece in the area that was removed. I am not sure if the intermediate plate mounting bolts interfere with the DMF.
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Ok thanks. I ended up using my cordless grinder to cut the raised section out of the plate, while still leaving the three tabs to attach to the main seal carrier. This left the bottom open, but this bell housing has at least three large openings due to its being from a 1.6TD Syncro, so there's really no sealing this thing up tight. I think this will work. It's absurd how much work I've had to accomplish at the rear of this engine. I still can't fathom why they didn't put any TDC marks on the front pulley area. I've had to install and remove the DMF and bellhousing about five times during this process. It's currently hanging from my cherry picker. This is all work I hadn't factored in to my install time estimate and it still boggles my mind.
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Sorry to hear of the difficulty. When I have installed the DMF, I have needed to pull the bell housing of the trans and bolt it on/off the engine a few times to get the clearance right but have not needed to remove the DMF. I believe the mark on the flywheel is used rather than the pulley end because the flywheel is larger diameter and so will give a more accurate reference. The stock diesel vanagon starter can also pinch the flywheel if a small amount of material is not removed from the starter.