VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: mtnbob on January 10, 2010, 05:11:17 pm
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I have done Vince Waldon's "Pimp Your Glowplugs"(Thank You Vince!!!), but I was thinking there must be a better way to attach the glowplug wires to the glowplugs. Any suggestions? Is there a connector that would clip securely on? Or a press on connector that would withstand the vibration? :o :o :o I seem to be going through a set of Bosche Duratherms on a year, and it would be nice to figure out how to switch out glowplugs more easily, or at least make the connection easier to install. I'm a big guy with big hands, and it is close to impossible for me to get the tiny nuts on the ends of the glowplugs ???
Thanks
Robert
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I have played with some push on terminals that fit nice and snug.. But gettnig one's fingers down in there to push them on may be equally as challenging..
I used terminals like this http://www.nichifu.com/spadesis.htm (http://www.nichifu.com/spadesis.htm) Then all I have to do is loosen the nut a bit to slide them on and off...
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Interestingly enough VW switched over to press-on connectors for the TDI glow plugs and guess what: they are a very very common source of trouble. Corrosion, working loose over time, intermittent changes in connectivity that trigger an engine fault.... the worst. And since it's one moulded assembly the only fix is "replace the entire press-fit harness".
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/glowplugharness.jpg)
This is with TDI plugs that carry a few amps less each than their IDI cousins... gimme a solid terminal that bolts down any day for high current applications. Until you have to change them, of course. ;)
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I seem to be going through a set of Bosche Duratherms on a year, and it would be nice to figure out how to switch out glowplugs more easily
I think you need to look in to why you are going through that many Bosch Duraterms when they don't burn themselves out. When you remove the old ones, are the ends all pitted and melted looking? Maybe you have some leaking injectors happening here? ruining your GP's? you shouldn't have to replace Duraterms that often, they should last up to three times as long.. and even crappy ones don't burn out in a year.
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Since I went to wire instead of the buss bar I tighten the little nut on the glowplug before putting it in the head. I don't tighten it much, finger tight, then I lower the GP into place and tighten it a little. Then I loosend the little nut and fully tighten the GP then I snug the little nut.
I have heard that if you over tighten a GP into the head it will have a shorter life.
This is the connector I use (http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/media/2057-outlined.jpg)
You can also put the nut almost tight and then just slip the terminal down and tighten the nut a little. It all depends if I have the IP lines off or not when I do it. I have pretty big hands too.
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Grease is the secret. That and 2 long skinny flat screwdrivers. Just put a small dab on the blade of one of the screw drivers, stick the nut to it and put it in place. Then use the other screw driver to spin it.
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Thanks for the suggestions. Got me wondering about tightening the glowplugs too much ::) I do tend to over do it. Thank you for the screwdriver idea Tyler, I'll give it a try. My bad glow plugs don't look bad at all, they just don't work when I test them. My injectors are recent(less than two years old)
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Grease is the secret. That and 2 long skinny flat screwdrivers. Just put a small dab on the blade of one of the screw drivers, stick the nut to it and put it in place. Then use the other screw driver to spin it.
I'll add to this my favorite tool... a small magnet on the end of a 2 foot length of thick copper wire. Dunno where I bought it from... already have the magnet on the end of the telescoping pointer... but the copper wire lets you bend it into all kinds of interesting shapes as you snake thru impossible corners to get that bolt that just dropped down into the depths of the innards.
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good point!!! I've been unhooking the lines on the injector side, the bending then back a bit, but that's probably not a good idea ::)
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My thing with the lines is usually if I am doing the job it is in the winter and I don't want to wait, crank, or try to pull start it to get it to prime and bleed off. Plus then it is usually cold so working outside sucks and cold being the reason I noticed the GPs going bad. In the warmer weather when I do them it doesn't bother me at all. But either way I always put the nuts on them and then install. Since one time I dropped one and couldn't find it. I thought it went into the TB cover area. I tore most of the front of the engine down and found it right behind the hose for the water pump. sucked.
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The guys at the electrical supply store told me that there was nothing even close to being as secure as a screw down bolt. I guess the clip on connectors wouldn't work too well in the long run :(
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Ford 7.3 IDI used a bullet style push on connector..
Why couldnt that work here?
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THe 7.3 had a little different style connector on the GP, but it might work.. Although with time even those were good for some trouble... A spade connector still seems to be the best bang for the buck.. Still bolts on but no need to completely remove the nut...
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Ford 7.3 IDI used a bullet style push on connector..
Why couldnt that work here?
Those things suck. Moisture gets in there and then the connectors corrode, become loose and stop making contact.
I like the nut/stud connection the best. I suppose you could try nuts that have a flange on them, so you can thread them on in the end of your socket and you wouldn't have to start threading them with your fingers.
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Ford 7.3 IDI used a bullet style push on connector..
Why couldnt that work here?
ford went to blade terminals shortly after using the bullet connector. those were short lived. mostly only on 6.9 engines i thought.
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IIRC, the 6.9 had the blade connectors and the 7.3 IDI had the bullets.. I had fewer problems with my '86 that had the blades.. The '91 was constantly giving me fits, and unlike the old one I couldn't just go find a terminal anywhere that would fit... Now I have a 6.5 Chevy, it's all good.. or something 8)
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IIRC, the 6.9 had the blade connectors and the 7.3 IDI had the bullets..
I think that's right. The 6.5 uses blades too doesn't it?
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I think that's right. The 6.5 uses blades too doesn't it?
I *think* it does... I'll have to look at mine in the day light..
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Grease is the secret. That and 2 long skinny flat screwdrivers. Just put a small dab on the blade of one of the screw drivers, stick the nut to it and put it in place. Then use the other screw driver to spin it.
Thankyou to Burn-yer-money, you have saved me from death by apoplectic rage trying to do my glowplugs today. Still a rage fest though >:(.
The good news though is 3 dead glowplugs, so there is a good reason for the car to be a devil to start in the frost, I had just assumed it had chewed itself to death with the air filter missing, there is hope yet. 8)
If you stroke the screwdriver with a magnet, that will magnetize it too, that wretched 8mm nut is not going to fall off the blade now. ;D
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There is nothing more frustrating the changing glow plugs only to find that all 4 are still good >:(
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There is nothing more frustrating the changing glow plugs only to find that all 4 are still good Angry
That is why a cheap multimeter is brilliant if you know how to use it, pity it's an 90 minute job just to get the 8mm's and bus bar off, so as you can test them before you unscrew (snap! ::)) the plugs out of the head.
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IIRC, the 6.9 had the blade connectors and the 7.3 IDI had the bullets..
The 6.9 used blade connectors up until 87. in 87 (the last year for the 6.9 before the 7.3 took over) the 6.9 also used bullet style connectors. I hate the bullet styles to be honest, they break way to easily.
I too think the screw on such as our vw's are probably the best design for function.. but for form they do not hold their own :P
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I used the spade connectors, They are easier then a ______________ (use your own favourite term for easy). I also had a neodium magnet for round one, but for round 2 of the pimp your plug fiasco, I pulled the hard lines. I have to say that I swore a lot less.
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I pulled the hard lines. I have to say that I swore a lot less.
SOOO much easier that way eh? and for something it takes 2 minutes to remove :)
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I've found that better way....
Step One: Cut the big red wire to the bus bar, (or whatever is powering your glow plugs)
Step Two: Install this http://www.quickstart-ether.com/products.php (http://www.quickstart-ether.com/products.php)
Step Three: Enjoy till it blows up.. It won't take long
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I know this is low tech, but i noticed that glow-plugs that were bad did not produce a spark when attaching a positive wire to the end of the glow-plug when installed in engine. A good glow plug does ;D BTW 3 of my glow-plugs were bad, so at least my replacing them was not a waste of time :o
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Supposedly with a cold engine, give 3 goes with the preheat, for a short while after the working plugs should feel warm. Now you will need some strange fingers to test the two hiding behind the pump. ;)
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I have an infrared digital thermometer for checking glowplugs like that :)
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I just pull the lines and the injectors and look down the holes. For $2,00 in injector heat shields it saves a whole lot of aggravation.
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I have an infrared digital thermometer for checking glowplugs like that :)
nice tip, I never even thought of that.
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nice tip, I never even thought of that.
I don't find it works very well. The heated element is so far away from the end of the injector that most of the heat has dispersed into the head.
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Step One: Cut the big red wire to the bus bar, (or whatever is powering your glow plugs)
Step Two: Install this http://www.quickstart-ether.com/products.php (http://www.quickstart-ether.com/products.php)
Step Three: Enjoy till it blows up.. It won't take long
Farm I work for has a couple of older International (a 784 and Hydro84 for anyone who cares) that came from International with an ether inject system but NOT glowplugs. It's got a funny little bracket where you put a regular, from-the-auto-parts-store can of ether (with the head pulled off) and tighten it into a rubber cap. Then there's a button on the console that triggers a solenoid and sprays that ether into the intake. These systems are mentioned in the owners manual and everything. Makes a huge difference starting in cold weather (neither of these machines is in peak health), but it always seemed like a kind of an eyesore of bad engineering... like the minibike I had as a kid that had the choke broken off, so I just carried around a can of starting fluid and squirted it through a pin hole in the foam air filter ;D
Luke
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Alot of older diesels, especially on tractors and construction machinery, had no glow plugs and used ether to start.. My old Oliver OC-96 crawler has doo dad on the dash that you fill with liquid ether and use a hand pump on top to shoot it in the intake.. We had a John Deere 2010 (?) that had the button like the IH you speak of.. Luckily it was healthy enough to never need it...
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35 yrs ago while working on a ranch in Colorodo, the tractors they used where already at that time very old..you started the tractor with gas and then switched over to diesel
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Wasn't it IH that had the engines with a carburetor and spark plugs on one side, and an IP and injectors on the other???
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There were Farmall/IH machines like that, but I don't think it was at all unique to them. I believe a lot of manufacturers worked that way?
Sounds like a nightmare to me.
Luke
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I think that is called a pup motor (sp). It sounds horribly overly complicated but very clever
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If nothing else, it would be fun going to the parts counter to get spark plugs for your diesel.. ;D
I'm most familiar with IH varieties of these.. I think they made them from '32 - '56.. They were actually very reliable and durable.. More or less it was IH's response to Cat's diesels that used "pony" motors for starting..
IIRC The earlier Cat's pony motor was not intended to be run very long, so there was no means of cooling built into them.. They only had a crude splash oiling system as well.. In extreme cold it was sometimes necessary to run the pony motor longer than it was designed to be, and thus burning it up.. IN the later 30's Cat finally routed coolant from the diesel to allow the pony motor to run longer, and improved the oiling system as well.... Routing the pony motor's exhaust pipe though the intake was a brilliant upgrade as well.. Still, you had to be cautious about how long you worked that little pony motor...
I've seen alot of these old rigs (Especially Amish ones) that have had the original pony motor removed and replaced with a small air cooled engine (typically the little OHV Hondas) I gotta say, it's real darn nice for starting a freshly rebuilt engine that hasn't had the fuel system bled yet... :)
And there's our history lesson of the day....
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For the glow plug install I take a ratcheting wrench and stick a small bit of paper towel over the opening, then push the nut into the wrench where it is held in place by the bit of paper.
Lower the wrench in and onto the GP. Stick a screwdriver against the back of the nut for a little pressure and then ratchet the nut on tight. Take off the wrench and the bit of paper falls out or sticks to the wrench....Much easier this way.
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For the glow plug install I take a ratcheting wrench and stick a small bit of paper towel over the opening, then push the nut into the wrench where it is held in place by the bit of paper.
Lower the wrench in and onto the GP. Stick a screwdriver against the back of the nut for a little pressure and then ratchet the nut on tight. Take off the wrench and the bit of paper falls out or sticks to the wrench....Much easier this way.
grease works too, and i know everyone that works on a VW diesel, has grease.
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grease works too, and i know everyone that works on a VW diesel, has grease.
LOL and grease covered at least once. Vaseline works too.
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A # 6 ring terminal stuck into a 1/4 spade unit soldered toghther? (Allin 121 ga wire size) Nut to blade.
Or a 1/4 " spade cromped/ soldered to the threds of the GP ? I know the make 90* units.
Ah yes, hand start little moter to "try" and start big moter, and hydralics from hell.....o. Big loverly yellow monsters d-9 anyone
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I think that is called a pup motor (sp). It sounds horribly overly complicated but very clever
Two different things.
A pup motor setup is basicly a small gas engine used as a starter motor for the bigger one. I've only seen them on CAT diesels. Later ones use the small engine to heat the diesel as well as to crank it over.
The other setup is to completely separate systems to fuel the engine. Intrnational super mta comes to mind. Start on gas and switch to diesel when it's warm enough to "diesel". Also remember seeing it on a 1928 Mcormick Deering......
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The other setup is to completely separate systems to fuel the engine. Intrnational super mta comes to mind. Start on gas and switch to diesel when it's warm enough to "diesel". Also remember seeing it on a 1928 Mcormick Deering......
Seen this on a Cat Dozer too.. open a valve that makes the combustion chambers bigger, allowing the compression ratio to come down to like 100psi so it can be started with spark plugs and gasoline, and it has an ignition system.. then when it warms up a little to levers and shes back up to 500psi compression and injecting diesel and not sparking at TDC lol. Very cool idea.
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I don;t think they made the chamber larger, they just allowed a compression leak.. I think cat would crack the exhaust valves open slightly.. John Deere and Case would have petcocks from the chamber... JD even used the petcocks on the 2cyl gassers.. Of course the hey no crank or starter, you grabbed the flywheel and gave er a rip..
IIRC JD used some pony (or pup) motors on crawlers and the JD 60 diesel..
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they may have allowed a compression leak, i dunno the specifics. I'm only 19 and Canadian.. I'm allowed to be wrong eh. ;)
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Is all in all possible they did something to change the chamber volume too.. All sorts of screwy stuff out there..
I guess you're probably too young to answer this question for me.. Back in the 30's here in the US we had the Ford Model "A".. Was it called the Ford Model "EH" in Canada??? ;D
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Pimped my GPs, but neglected to ensure the trimmed ring terminal would not spread when tightening the nut.
Now (a year later), I am adding the small flat-washer on the GP studs to keep the hook/ring from spreading and allowing a more secure connection.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3oS5A5wlo68/UMvf9kEBd3I/AAAAAAAAA3Q/Z8xK0arKw8I/s800/PimpedWashers.jpg)
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I think if you cut the notch at the top, the opening wouldn't spread. The rotation of the nut would help keep it closed. The only difference would be hooking the stud from the bottom.
-Todd
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I think that is called a pup motor (sp). It sounds horribly overly complicated but very clever
Two different things.
A pup motor setup is basicly a small gas engine used as a starter motor for the bigger one. I've only seen them on CAT diesels. Later ones use the small engine to heat the diesel as well as to crank it over.
Yea a older friend described how in the NY winters he'd start up a gas pup motor for a diesel dozer or grader, let the diesel spins for a bit to warm , then hit the decompression lever to engage full compression, then maybe sometimes a hit of ether.
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I haven't read the pimp my glow plug thread in years.... Does it have a junction connection that allows you to separate all four glow plugs for testing individually by resistance/spark?
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Yes. The fuse block, where you have a separate fuse for each individual glow plug. At least that's where mine diverges into 4 separate wires..... As I remember it I followed Vince's procedure pretty close all the way.
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/28/15a1d00a70e7ebb079aed84b470a8627.jpg)
I found this at Princess Auto. Absolutely perfect, even has an LED that will come on if a fuse blows.
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I like the fuse block with the LEDs. The at-a-glance glow plug check would be nice.
I have a multi-meter that has a thermocouple temperature probe. I find that if I pre-glow a cold engine a couple times, the meter is plenty sensitive enough to readily tell which glow plugs are working and which aren't. At that point, pulling the right one is easy.
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I see a bling upgrade in my future. Like that box and lights. Now what to do with old blind eye when I yank it?
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I over-engineer everything. hehe ::)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/08Hes_dead_Jim/Rabbit%20engine%20rebuild/0502150727.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/08Hes_dead_Jim/media/Rabbit%20engine%20rebuild/0502150727.jpg.html)
(http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/08Hes_dead_Jim/Rabbit%20engine%20rebuild/0502150728.jpg) (http://s859.photobucket.com/user/08Hes_dead_Jim/media/Rabbit%20engine%20rebuild/0502150728.jpg.html)