VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: NintendoKD on November 18, 2009, 04:25:57 pm
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Ok, well if you read the top then you know what I'm up to I AM GOING TO DO IT! seriously the audi 500o intake looks promising but I am open to better designs and Ideas I have the 1.5 rot assy and the 1.6TD bottom end still in need of the turbo, ex mani. downpipe? arp studs, metal head gasket, piping, intercooler, and odds and ends. I am told that this is always talked about but never done well here goes I need cash and I have stuff up for sale/trade too so If you can help that would be just spectacular.
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TDI head? What pistons and rods are you going to use?
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The stock 1.5ers. Are they too weak? I was under the impression that the stock internals are very strong just the 1.5 block is weak. This information is good to know off-the-bat so I don't make any fatal errors during the build phase.
thanks,
Kevin
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First mistake, you can't use a TDI head with IDI pistons.
Brendan
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"sexy party" Good to know, where do I get some stronger pistons that will fit the job at hand? "sexy party".........................................
... "SEXY PARTY!"
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Custom.
Nothing matches between TDI and 1,5. Cylinder bore, rod journals, piston height, piston pin, rod length, all are different in stock parts.
E: 1,2L 3 cyl Lupo engine has 76,5mm bore and 24mm piston pin. Maybe you could use those.
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Were you intending on a TDI or IDI? Because using the 1.9 IDI head would be pretty straight-forward.
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going turbo all the way baby, I was told that the 1.5 rotating assy would fit right into the 1.6 TD block this is not true? I was misinformed? also veeery good to know so the question still remains where do I get said internals for the bottom end??? THe idea here folks is to build a high "for a diesel" revving boost hungry heavy breather turbo beast engine "like legos" with strength and some "I mean look at what we are trying to achieve here" reliability.
Thanks,
Kevin
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TDI or IDI head? Two very different things. Other easy, other not.
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AAZ TDI head I said "boost hungry" right? ;D
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AAZ TDI head I said "boost hungry" right? ;D
AAZ is not a TDI. AAZ is IDI. You're in the wrong section here, bud.
You want the next forum down on the main page. A 1.5 rotating assembly with a 1.9 head is gonna be some major cold starting issues with super-low compression. :D
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cold start? bring it on! 8) and once again, good to know, I would hate to be looking for someting that does not exist.
thanks,
Kevin
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http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1465135487.html (http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1465135487.html)
so there is no such thing as a tdi aaz? I have seen them elsewhere too on the vortex.
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You've got to do your homework before you start into a potentially impossible project. What people here are trying to explain to you is that the AAZ is an IDI engine. You can use the oem 1.5 pistons with this head. If you were to use a true TDI head, you would need to use TDI pistons. Meaning you would have to find/make some since there is no plug and play TDI piston to use in the 1.6 block.
:-\
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There's a pretty good discussion of the 1.5 assembly/1.6 block/1.9 head idea in Saurkraut's thread (lots of measurements and considerations):
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=11786.60 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=11786.60)
You may have to circumcise your 1.6 block to make it work.
Also, you'll need a 1.6 block that doesn't require boring because oversized 1.5 pistons are very difficult to find. Someone was selling them on here at one point, but they were pricey.
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hey kev, stick to our side of the board... the IDI section. you wont get much help in the direct injection side of the board. TDI specifies Turbo Direct Injected. IDI specifies In-Direct Injection. when we say TD, we are talking about turbo idi engines.
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OK, :o so noooow I understand a little better just have to move the ol thread, got it. I am using a Turbo 1.6 block I know I'll need different pistons because the block is bored and still has visible cross hatching. I also dont want my pistons "under turbo pressures" to melt or explode :o "let's just say it would be a bad day" I REALLY! want to do this I don't have a good junkyard or a machine shop anywhere nearby out here in the desert. This coumpounds my problems, also, thanks everyone for your VERY! valuable input you can't really put a price on this stuff. Just goes to show ya, I'm still learning and am not to high on the hog to come down and admit that I don't know everything.
Thanks,
Kevin
P.S. adversely how exactly can I "MOVE" a thread? moderator anyone?
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In case the PM was not recieved, Thanks Vince, "the moderator". 8)
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home work first, project second
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http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1465135487.html (http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/1465135487.html)
so there is no such thing as a tdi aaz? I have seen them elsewhere too on the vortex.
thats an AAZ TD head. still indirect injected. turbo does not specify TDI.
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home work first, project second
yes, i keep trying to tell him that. he keeps trying to get all these parts and stuff before he even knows what he needs. just chill out for a while kev. get things sorted out and find all the parts. theres alot of parts that are gonna be pretty hard for you to find.
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sorry guys I am just soo stoked about this build, I went up to Sac CA and just got back "check the date stamp" anywho I bought a 1.6 TD block crank and pistons from another member who posted on craigslist for $200.00 THAT I know I'll need regardless 1.5 block cracks easily, got it. Research first, I tend to jup rather head long into these thing not so much a leap before looking sort of thing I am just getting laid that often ::)
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you are probably going to need a 1.6 head too. and everything else on a TD motor that is specific. you are a lot of parts away from a finished engine.
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You can do a 1.6l td bottom end, with a 1.9l AAZ head. It is an IDI engine, as the fuel is not injected directly into the combustion chamber, also the IDI head has a pre-combeustion chamber built in, whereas the TDI has it in the piston itself.
I am building the exact same engine, 1.6TD block and rotating assembly with a 1.9l AAZ head. You will have to modify the head a little for it to work properly, but these mods are fairly simple. You will also have to make sure you measure for the proper head gasket to ease with starting, even though the cold starts will be litle more difficult than a normal 1.6td.
The major benefit of this combo is the ability to run more boost, due to the lower static compression with the larger cc volume in the head.
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this I understand, but i still need a 1.9 aaz head I'll use my 1.5 head "12mm holes drilled in" on the 1.6 td block for now N/A "higher static comp." just to get up and going I need a stronger fuel pump, new pistons, injectors, turbo, intercooler, piping, metal head gasket, ARP studs,oil pump, water pump, "the block is bare so I need a lot" I also need all new well basically everything fuel lines, belt, dipstick, and the list goes on, Wohever said it was right hat I need is a complete 1.6 TD engine, just don't have the money now, will have to wait. I am going to get a re-ring kit for now and head studs and gaskets, to build this to drive for the time being.
Thanks,
Kevin
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i told you that you should have waited a little longer. you dont have near the pieces you need huh? its barely gonna work. i wouldnt ruin that 1.5 head if i were you. just get a n/a 1.6 head. this is turning into something band-aided together i would expect from a tweeker. something like the guy that bought the 1.8 16v gasser with a AAZ head on it. that motor was most likely built by a tweeker. why dont you wait and just do it right? i told you that it was pretty much pointless buying just a turbo block by its self. you need EVERYTHING ELSE besides the block. you can get away with a stock 1.6 block if you want. if you dont have piston coolers, just run enough air to keep things cool. thats why i like my VNT so much. plenty of air. trust me dude, i tried to do projects like you. "try and finish them before you even have enough parts to start". well, im here to tell ya that it works so much nicer when you wait to do something till you have all the right pieces to build it and install it.
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^^^^ X2 If you don;t have the money for a 1.6 TD now, why not save what you'll be spending on a mess and put that towards doing the job right?? Buying alot of random parts that won;t work well together isn't going to be of much help...
A starting point could be if your 1.5 head is good, sell it! THere are those who are looking for those from time to time...
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would the precups from a 1.5 fit in a 1.9 head to get about right for a 1.6 bottom???
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1.5 pre-chambers are proportionately smaller than 1.6 pre-chambers in order to achieve the same compression ratio.
Actually my bentley says the 1.5 is 23.5:1 while the 1.6 is 23:1 ;D
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Does anyone have any 1.6 and 1.9 precups. to measure if they can be swaped?
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I understand, I just have horrible luck with cars. This thing has 250,000 miles on it and the bearings finally went RIGHT after I got it "only the third owner too", I just need something that runs and gets me to and from work "on base, where I live" until I can sell my 06' suzuki reno to have enough money to put a new engine in my family minivan"the old one's previous owner was running it with a semi-bad head gasket and water in the cooling system, cascading engine failure of the greates magnitude ensued". The engine for the van costs an average of 1500 and I only spent 200 on the 1.6 td block. New head gasket and arp studs would put me up about another 200 four hundred total for a fuel efficient car "non-turbo for the moment" then I can sell the other car to get enough money to buy the motor for the van, and have some spending cash for the rabbit project. Unless there are some generous people around I really don't have another option for the time being. I don't currently have the money and I believe you, and you are absolutely right! I want to wait until I have everything to complete this but for now I have other rather pressing priorities. I do hope that you can all understand I am listening to your VERY helpful advice, however for now I need a reliable engine to rebuild and the 1.6 mated with the 1.5 head is a good bet at the moment, if only just temporary. I think that higher static compression is fine for now "better cold start too" until I can resolve some problems in finance and get rid of some of my vehicles. If anyone would love to talk to better understand my situation you can call me, I will be on leave throughout thanksgiving. 6618162150 Kevin If anyone is in a particularly helpful mood that would be great too.
Thanks so much, God bless, and Happy Thanksgiving,
Kevin
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I can get you a complete 1.6 NA motor for less than $200, more than likely would need at least a re-ring and new bearings to run decent. I am not sure what it would cost to ship to 29 palms, maybe the military has a way soldiers can ship stuff cheap? I also would be able to get you just a head or rotating assembly also, but it would be from an NA motor, but to my knowledge the only diff would be the notches in the pistons to clear the squirters, which wuold be a mot point if you need to bore out the TD block you would need to order new pistons anyway.
If you are interested, let me know and I will do what I can.
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no, but they will fit in a TD head.. the cups from a 1.5 that is...
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I have a Turbo 1.6 block and an entire 1.5 N/A engine but thats about it. oh and a g60 intake mani, and a audi 5000 turbo intake mani. the 1.6 turbo block has a rotating assy.
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Ok, so to make things simple, what components do I need to make this project work and where do I get them? The 1.5 rods and pistons are hard to get, I get that so what is different between the 1.5 and the 1.6 Turbo pistons and rods? same bore right different material? better strength? I need the crank from the 1.5 for less stroke to allow for higher rpms, and the pistons don't really look all that different, are they. Cold start issues are no real issue for me "talking about low comp ratio" The turbo "while running" will more than make up for that. I am looking for the best and second best components here without cost in mind. I will do this, I will find a way.
Thanks guys,
Kevin
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pistons are the same bore, different wrist pin height. rods are also different, and you need the 1.5 rods to go with the 1.5 crank
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I kinda thought so, are they going to be srong enough? the 1.5 rods? how the hell do I get pistons that are strong enough? the cranks are beastly, so I'm not too worried. I would really like to get a REAL NO STIH parts list going and where I can get said parts, any takers?
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dude, nobody told us exactly how to do it. so, like we did, use the damn search function. it takes all the parts a normal engine takes to run. that should explain it pretty well. do you know how to build an engine? do you know how a diesel engine functions? do you know what parts go where? you dont seem like you are a very good mechanic. i never had to ask anyone what went where when i built my 250 horse 22r race car engine. you still have to have all the pieces to make an engine, nothing gets left out. when i say its a straight forward build, i mean that its straight forward. bolt parts together. turn key.
honestly i dont know how many more rpms the 1.5 will turn if any, over the 1.6 because we are dealing with such low engine RPM anyway. you could probably honestly build better power and torque with a 1.6, just because the burning fuel will be in the cyl longer than in the 1.5.
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dude, nobody told us exactly how to do it. so, like we did, use the damn search function. it takes all the parts a normal engine takes to run. that should explain it pretty well. do you know how to build an engine? do you know how a diesel engine functions? do you know what parts go where? you dont seem like you are a very good mechanic. i never had to ask anyone what went where when i built my 250 horse 22r race car engine. you still have to have all the pieces to make an engine, nothing gets left out. when i say its a straight forward build, i mean that its straight forward. bolt parts together. turn key.
honestly i dont know how many more rpms the 1.5 will turn if any, over the 1.6 because we are dealing with such low engine RPM anyway. you could probably honestly build better power and torque with a 1.6, just because the burning fuel will be in the cyl longer than in the 1.5.
to answer your question, yes I do know how to build an engine. plastiguage, torque specs and all. I must admit, I have been a bit lazy about the search function as of late..... a bit....... yeah, so anywho when the idea was first presented to me, I thought "my god, this is something unique and challenging" building and learning about diesels has been a bit of a challenge thus far. I am used to gasoline engines, and because of that am used to much weaker components that have no german engineering behind them, and are not designed with high tolerances for drastic changes in temperature and PSI strain. I am still learning. Everyone has to start somewhere. I do very much like to do thing right "measure twice and cut once" I do realize that it takes quite a bit to destroy these engines, I would like to do it right the first time. I do think that the 1.6 setup is better, however, I am quite curious about how the extra revvs will effect turbo spool, especially larger type turbos. Much like you have suggested before, I wish to gain all of the knowledge, and parts that I need and then proceed with the build, I was under the impression that I could get that kind of support through this forum through this thread. I must apologize in advance if I have offended anyoneand Continually thank everyone for their contributions no matter how light of insignificant it may seem. Oh, and I got the g-60 intake mani today, looks veeeery promising, I am also working on a way to make a reverse mold of the turbo that is on the audi 5000 mani I already have to put onto the g-60 mani in a permasteel type material, and then paint on top of that.
thanks everyone so far and happy thanksgiving,
Kevin
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so I will assume that my privious questions were stupid ones "mostly due to the fact that they were met with such malice" I am an electronics instructor and know how to take criticism "for future reference" I would love to use the search function but not sure of even what it is that I seek. crank, bearings, rods, rod bearings, pistons, in mostly that order in the bottom end the top end I can only assume "due to the use of an aaz head is hydroulic" valves slide through the vave guides, valve keepers, springs, retainers and the tappets that sit on top stroked ever so gently by the cam above and finally the cam bearings. For those unfarmilliar in the mechanics behind or how to build an engine I can answer all of those questions as well. If I must waste all of our time here due to the disbelief of others then so be it, It may also be appropriate to mention that truth is stranger than fiction when it comes to believing rather unbelievable details about someones life "like last weekend spent driving CHP patrol cars around on the campus in norcal and spinning wildly about on the skidpan with video to prove it' but that is a nother story for another time. Seriously, I am a rather intense individual, and when I get an Idea or concept into my mind it is rather all I can think about, untill all ends are tied up and the project is finished. This is the latest. I can only assume from an engineering aspect that the oil squirters are going to prevent meltdown or catastrofic detonation of the pistons and rods under high dynamic compression but I did want to be sure, just for STIHS and giggles. I will do this with or without the help of the forum or the community, I have come to rely quite heavily on you all and I suppose that is my mistake, easily rectified.
Thanks,
Kevin
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I forget what your latest plan was since it got so far off track.
I don't really see what the problem is, as long as you use all IDI stuff ;D
Yeah the squirters keep the pistons cool when your running high EGT's, lot's of people have turboed NA's and as long as the egt's stay low enough everythings fine.
There are no cam bearings in these engines, the cam rides right on the aluminum.
I'm not an expert on head swapping but it's muchly simplified by using all hydro or all solid lifter stuff, so to use an AAZ head it would help to have a hydro block so you don't have to plug oil drain galleys and stuff.
I know what you mean about getting a one track mind on stuff, for me it usually drives people crazy since they usually don't care what I'm working on ;D.
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I still have a lot of research to do on this thing, fuel pump modification, turbo, oil pump "which to use" intercooling, injectors to use, etc. That is the whole reason that I started this thread. To get help. I want to do this thing the right way, like no one has before.
;D
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ask us specific questions, not just, "how do i build this thing" then you will get better answers from us. dont just expect the answers to come to you. gotta work for it sometimes.
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Fair enough, If I am going to beselfish I should at least be specific. Also, very good to know.
Thanks,
Kevin
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I am currently looking for a complete AAZ IDI head, turbo, mani, and downpipe. Having a sponsor for this would be great because I don't have all of the cash for all of this right now. I found these guys, based out of japan, they machine their own stuff apparently. Do we know anything about their work? for the turbo I'm thinking a vnt type turbo that's pretty large "not ginormous" to give me copious amounts of boost. You need specific questions, here's one the block that I have is bare so I need a water pump, oil pump alternator etc. can I use the stuffs from my complete 1.5 motor or do should I go with something different? Also can I use the 1.5 pump and send it to GILES after the build? or should I use a 1.9 aaz IDI turbo pump for this setup? Are these questions too broad? I can make them more specific.... I think.
http://www.eurospecsport.com/products/engines/diesel-engines.htm (http://www.eurospecsport.com/products/engines/diesel-engines.htm)
thanks guys,
Kevin
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dang it! forgot already, I mic'd the 1.6 turbo block and that is the factory bore there with cross hatching "AMAZING!" so yet another question can I use the stock 1.5 rotating assy "with new re-ring kit of course" I don't want the pistons exploding on me or melting inside of the cylinder so I want to make absolutely sure the 1.5 pistons and rods an handle what I will eventually be throwing at it. I know it is a little early in the game for this, but would it be a good idea to add an oil cooler? Sorry for the bother, if any.
Thanks again,
Kevin
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found this, any good? I will have to ask if this is for turbo application, but it is definately for the IDI. Gotta love google.
http://www.volkswaparts.com/AAZCompleteHead.htm (http://www.volkswaparts.com/AAZCompleteHead.htm)
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AS far as your water pump & housing, brackets, pulley's, vac pump,intermediate shaft etc they can be swapped off the
1.5..
AS far as your pump, the 1.5 pump will run a 1.6 but not optimally.. If you're sending it to Giles I think he can take care of that.. Since you are talking turbo you will want some sort of fuel enrichement on the pump.. The NA pump will work, but once again not optimally.. Ideally would be to find a TD pump. The top off a TD pump could be swapped on your pump, or even one of the altitude compensating pumps slightly modified would be an option... A 1.9 pump could also be worked with, although from what I gather the boost pin in the 1.6 TD is worlds better than the AAZ...
THe 1.5 rotating assembly is just as strong as the 1.6 rotating assembly.. AS we have all been saying the 1.9 head had a larger combustion chamber.. Coupled with the shorter stroke of the 1.5 your compression is going to be really low.. Starting may be darn near impossible.. The 1.5 had 23.5:1 compression, the 1.6 had 23:1.. A 1.5 rotating assembly with a 1.9 head will give you about 18:1... Those that have build a 1.6 with an aaz head have mentioned tough starting with a compression ratio of about 19.5:1..
AS far as that particular vendor, do a search for "Prothe" on here.. Alot of mixed reviews about his stuff.. His "rebuilt" injection pumps are crap.. Many have gotten burned... I believe Smokey Eddy is running one of those heads....
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I do understand that static compression will be very low for a diesel, I suppose that once warmed up it will run great with a turbo because compression will rise and volumetric efficiency will be better as well. 1.6 TD pump it is now for the turbos wht should I use? I mean some guys like rabbitonroids are running just short of 20 psi on a completely different setup I should theoreticaly be capable of a lot more hence this setup so target will be .... let's say uhhhhh 25 psi max or more? what kind of turbo should I use in a vnt or vgt setup. Specifically. 8)
thanks,
Kevin
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Although I'm not a big fan of hair dryers, The VNT has some nice benefits.. Controlling it takes a bit of engineering.. There's a few threads here about that though..
One thing I just thought of, what year is the TD block you have, or more specificaly, is it a hydro lifer block or a mechanical lifter block??? AAZ heads are all hydro lifter..
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how do I know? which the block is?
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Look on the block just below cyl 3 (I think) and after scraping the oily grime off you'll see I flat spot with some numbers and letter's, get the 2 letter code and post it.
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Best way to tell is to look at how many oil drains are in the front of block. 1 between #2 and #3 is a solid lifter, Hydraulic if it has that one plus a smaller one between #1 and #2
I think there are some pictures in the FAQ if you care to have a browse through there.
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I have looked through the faq section of the forum, I have the tendancy to overlook things, especially if I don't know specifically what it is that I'm looking for. Good to know, I'm still learning here. I'll post it up, I'm not too sure what the other thing is but I'll take a look at that too. I HOPE! that it's a hydro block *filbert* "OH PLEASE, OH PLEASE" 8)
thanks again,
Kevin
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all right, here goes, 068103011, at the bottom in a circle was (30j83) and at the top CY 111 761 hows that?
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That'll do.. I believe the CY engines were the 1986-1988 hyrdo lifter engines.. Just to be absolutely sure, compare the TD block to the 1.5.. The hydro blocks have an extra bump on the front between the #1 and #2 cyls...
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sooooo I need a different block? will the hydro aaz head not work? I am sooo confused. hate to change the subject, but should I use the aaz injection pump or the 1.6 Turbo pump? I am told the 1.6 is better because of the superior boost pin design is 350.00 a good price for one of the 1.6 pumps? It is rebuilt.
thanks again,
Kevin
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I would really rather have a turbo 1.6 block "for strength and the 12mm holes" and already setup for hydro lifters, I'll sell this one then or trade. The easier the better here. DMAN, and I drove all the way up to Sacremento to get this thing too. Really good block, has cross hatching still visible and stock bores. I'll clean it all up before I sell/trade it how much would you say it's worth? I want to make sure that I get the right one next time "hydro with the bump in between 1&2" got it...... learning........ exspensive............ now I know why people pay sooo much for college.
Thanks again,
Kevin
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Ok, so far what I have learned is that for this particular setup you will need a later built 1.6 turbo block "for the strength and 12mm holes and for the oil squirters" an complete 1.5 rotating assy. The block needs to be a hydro block because the aaz head you will need will have hydro lifters and to make things easy the block needs to be in tip top shape because the 1.5 overbore pistons are uber rare. You will need a complete aaz head with injectors, the non-tdi head, to be more specific. you will need the arp 12mm studs, a metal head gasket, the 1.6 turbo injection pump is preferred as well as the oil pump "due to the demand of the oil sqirters, and the superior design of the 1.6 turbo pumps boost pin". I think thats it so far, I'll have to edit this as we go along.
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I was looking through other parts of the forum and wondered, will I need an oil cooler? I plan to eventually exceed 25 psi boost. so..... good I dea to make plans, or no don't bother?
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Thanks Libby! NIKD, it's what he said.. Someday I will learn to wear my specs.. ::)
The general concensus would be that you need a hydro block.. However................
AS far as using a mech block with a hydro head READ this thread... http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15780.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15780.0)
The exact combo you want is discussed in there, with better specs as far as comp ratio and such..
Where are you getting a pump from for $350? That sounds a bit too cheap for a "rebuilt" pump..
Oil cooler for sure.. They came with them from the factory.. Not great oil coolers, but an oil cooler none the less..
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Well, in further looking CY was ALSO a later hydraulic lifter TD block as well (I happen to have two CY blocks in my garage and one is solid lifter and one is hydraulic, lol). Same deal as the MF. So, it could be either.
That's fun!! THe list I have been gathering listed the CY as a hydro from an '86-'88 Passat.. Then I look down the list further and they had the Quantum listing.. Yet they only have the MF listed as a mech engine.. Time to add some more notes...
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looks like this post isn't just helping me.. but now for the bad news my block is......... mech *sigh* I really don't want to sink more money into this than I have to. I'll leave the head modification for another build, anyone want to trade a mech turbo 1.6 block for a hydro one? seriously?........ anybody. As much fun as it would be "trust me it's tempting" my wife is really beaming me over the head about this so I need to get it done and fast... and cheaply somewhat "you get what you pay for" I am going with the hydro type for ease of use *ugh* "can't believe I am doing this" I really want to take more time on this, but I just can't for previously mentioned reasons. HE HE! jealous of my find on the pump are we? "gotta love crackheads" they need money and you need stuff, works out great for both parties, no, but seriously, no cackhead, but a real 1.6 turbo injection pump for $350.00 rebuilt, and if you try to snatch it from under my nose you are too late I already arranged shipping and paid.
thanks again,
Kevin
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Ok, I really hate to waver, but are there any problems reported from tsoe who have plugged the extra hole? "that have done it correctly" I might just do that if all else fails and I can't find my hydro head in time. I can tap it no problem and the plug shouldn't be a problem either what grade steel am I looking at for the plug? I may be able to find a cheaper one thats just as effective and easier to install. Is the resurfacing really necessary? if I must I will send it off. ;D
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You saw this thread right?
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=16688.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=16688.0)
I also gotta say again, I think it's a bad idea to use a 1.9 head with 1.5L displacement. I predict that you'll end up with a very smokey and hard to start engine that gets poor fuel economy.
this is quoted form saurkraut, and I must reiterate, I'm not the least bit worried about difficult cold starts:
saurkraut, that's a bunch of conversion work. Hate to sound stupid, but is your project goal to produce gains in horsepower, torque, fuel economy, lower emissions, or what? (I know; sounds like a newb.)
Don't the 1.6L mechanical heads have a water passage right where you put the aluminum pipe plug? Seems like all coolant flow is critical on our VW diesels, but maybe I'm just missing something basic here.(?)
Won't you also have to use a 1.9L intake manifold, or modify the 1.6L unit?
Interesting work, and nicely done.
J.R.
The 1.9 head has bigger ports, and bigger swirl chambers which should lower my CR to 19:1 or somthing around there. I have an Excel spread sheet that has CRs for different heads on different motors somewhere, but 19:1 is in the ball park.
I don't like hydralic lifters.
I should be able to pack more air in each stroke.
The lower compression should reduce stress on the rods.
Therefore, I should be able to run a more stupid booste level with more fuel and have less chance of busting anything in the engine.
I suspect I'll lunch another trany next though.
I have been running a K24 at 25 - 30 PSI with some smoke. Crapped a piece of a turbine blade (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=14895.0&highlight=) out the tail pipe once. I have a k-26 that I plan on grafting its kompressor on to the k24 and get even more air in there.
Yes, I have the 1.9 intake manifold too.
After I finish this monkey business, its back to the 1.5TD (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=11786&highlight=) program.
I'm just a shareing kind of person.... ;)
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Oh, almost forgot the works cited part ;D
the quote was from this thread provided earlier in this one, thanks, maxfax. 8)
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15780.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=15780.0)
Gentlemen, learning is occoring at a most prodigious level, thanks and accolades are in order.
Thank you,
Kevin
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mea culpa, mea culpa. :-[ now I feel sheepish :P ok, so I'll have to push start it then no biggie once she warms up i'll be golden right?
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I would really rather have a turbo 1.6 block "for strength and the 12mm holes" and already setup for hydro lifters, I'll sell this one then or trade. The easier the better here. DMAN, and I drove all the way up to Sacremento to get this thing too. Really good block, has cross hatching still visible and stock bores. I'll clean it all up before I sell/trade it how much would you say it's worth? I want to make sure that I get the right one next time "hydro with the bump in between 1&2" got it...... learning........ exspensive............ now I know why people pay sooo much for college.
Thanks again,
Kevin
Newer NA blocks have 12mm bolts too
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The general concensus is that this has never been done before? no one has tried it for fear of absolute failure? Boy this really has my name all over it. ;D I want to make this work, in fact I'm willing to bet it will work wonderfully "cold starts are gonna suck" push start anyone? either way 30+ psi boost sounds promising. If all else fails, at the end of the day I can just slap the old 1.6 rot assy. in and still have a perfectly good running engine. What does that take, what ........ a couple of hours max?
thanks guys,
Kevin
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i dunno that no ones done it because they thought it would fail, i think it just hasn't happened yet, its possible that it has happened tho, theres alot of cool stuff that never gets posted on the internet. i think the cold start issue would probably be minimal if timing is correct, it might be kind of hard, but i've had ***ty engines before and i could usually get them started one way or another.
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If anyone can swap out the rotating assembly (from running to running again) in two hours they would be my personal hero. I would think that if someone was working hard, knew every bolt, had all the right tools and was sticking to it nose to the grindstone, it would be more along the lines of 8+ hours of labor at minimum.
Andrew know's his crap. lol
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you are right about the time ;) just exxaggerated just a little couple of hours of our time is like a minute in gassers time. In your opinion how could I make this work better? I like to have a can-do attitude I think there is a way would a block warmer help or maybe there is a way, I haven't thought of it, but it doesn't mean that someone else can't, with the right attitude. Just think of all of the cool ideas that never made it to invention because someone thought that the way they thought about it, it simply wouldn't work. I am sure that toegther we can figure this out. The cold starts I can handle, at least until it warms up, then all is well ntil I have to start her again. Adding an electric heating element to the cooling/ oil system could keep the block warm but other than that I am drawing a blank. How do the big rigs do it?
Once again, thanks for the input guys you are all an inspiration and helpful,
Kevin
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How do the big rigs do it?
Have adequate compression. ;D
How cold does it get there in Socal? 70-75f maybe? Will that really cause cold start problems??
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It'd take just as long to swap a rotating assembly on a gasser as it woudl on a diesel.. Fuel system and strength differences aside, when it all comes down to it, an enigne is an engine... Some are just better than others.... ;D
And air intake heater coupled with the glow plugs *might* get you started.. But I as well think you are going to see some poor economy and alot of smoke.. With this there really wouldn't be much point of a diesel as the most noteworthy perks (economy & longevity) wouldn't be there.. THe other perk of a diesel, the low end torque, probably would be less prevalent as well. The power isn;t going to be spectacular until the turbo starts to spool.. A properly matched VNT may make help this out though...
With an indirect injection diesel there are limits to how low you can go with static compression, plain and simple.. The larger industrial type engines such as those in tractors and excvators etc that have comp ratios in the 16:1 - 19:1 range are direct injection diesels.. The old Ford IDI 7.3's and GM 6.2 & 6.5 IDI ran about 21:1 compression, whereas the later DI Powerstokes & Duramaxs ran with about 17:1.. The VW TDI's had about 19:1 I think...
Maybe with some injector and pump tweaks, and the proper turbo it could be made to run half decent, but there is a reason that most IDI diesels run compression ratios of around 20:1 and up...
Build it and let us know how it works!!!
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Ahh Libby you beat me to the punch!
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the cold starts shouldn't be too unbearable but it does reach 0F here sometimes in the desert's of socal especially in the mountains, how much does a block heater help?
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so bottom line, stick with the 1.6 instead of the 1.5 rotating assy. and don't even attempt it? :) As much as I would love to defy the laws of physics and thermodynamics :D"and you know i'd love to", I'm going to go with the experts here then. I will stick with the 1.6 displacement, and use the aaz head coupled with a vnt. Sounding better? There are alredy guys running this setup so not too difficult right? so now I can just sell the complete 1.5 engine, YAY! more money for go-faster parts
thanks again guys "I thought that there was a reason to start this thread"
Kevin
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can I use the 1.5 with a block heater? I wonder? This car will be a daily driver to work and back about 5 miles total round trip "I got the car to be good on gas and to have some fun in now and then" I have all these young kids on base that buy a new mustang gt and think that they are top dawg, I want to show them better. ;)
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yous guys posted so fas that my other post is a little out of place it should be about two up :o
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I gotta see if I can find this again, but in my research on my GM 6.5 I read a thread about a 6.2 with the compression dropped to about 17.5 :1 and crazy boost added.. The short story on this:
90 deg day with the block heater plugged in and shut off for just a tad over an hour it would not start.. Period end of story.. Since it was auto pop starts were out of the question.. I'd be curious to see how much pulling it would have taken to start it.. Ultimately he ended up with one of those push button ether injectors.. Fuel economy was single digits, but I guess top end power was pretty good.. That engine made it about 30,000 miles.. I suspect ether was the killer..
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sooooo... no 1.6 with az head? bad idea? ???
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A 1.6 with an AAZ head would be better.. The extra point and a half of compression will make a world of difference.. Plus you'd actually be able to get pistons for it.. I dunno if this had been addressed or not, but you;d need to machine notches in the 1.5 pistons for the oil squirters on a turbo block.. I don;t know if this may weaken the piston too much or not.. THe regular TD pistons would have already been cast with this notch..
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can I use the 1.5 with a block heater? I wonder? This car will be a daily driver to work and back about 5 miles total round trip "I got the car to be good on gas and to have some fun in now and then" I have all these young kids on base that buy a new mustang gt and think that they are top dawg, I want to show them better. ;)
Five miles a day round trip is going to slaughter your engine. You're going to be running "cold" the entire time, or wearing the crap out of parts when you flog it warm on your way to work.
Your fuel economy is going to be horrible, almost gasser-like... or possibly worse, if you crank the compression down low.
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warm it up, sunday drives, loooong, got it. And yes I did know about the oil notches, I have had this done in other cars, and if done properly "properly being a key term" it will not affect the structural integrity so that shearing occurs. I do also realize that larger 1.5, or replacement pistons are damn near impossible to come by and if so are impossibly exspensive. I, like soo many others, was intensely curious about the "non-stroked" rotating assy. of the 1.5; since these engines are smaller, they can attain revvs that normal "much larger" diesel engines find impossible, what could that do combined with the ability to throw a rather copious abount of boost into it? the lower compression would aid to engine longevity, and fuel economy "to a certain point" and high performance which is the shan-gri-la of performance tuning. The entire idea behind this thread was not to explore if this was possible, but to do it. It has become increasingly pressing, that huge losses in both performance and fuel economy as well as engine longevity are at stake. Since that was what I was trying to achieve in the first place, I will have to move on. In conclusion, is the 1.6 a better displacement and suitable combustion chamber size for what I am trying to achieve? I am at a bit of a loss to some of the math and/or formulas used to calculate these losses "thermodynamics I take it?". I suppose not all of us would need to take this into consideration when building an engine normally, however, this is an entirely different set of circumstances. Never was a big fan of applied math for dynamic applications, too many variables, too much speculation of a failed achievemant and no action on the acting parties part. I won't do it, not now, simply because I only want to build this thing once and want it to run for a looong time, and don't want to sink a small fortune into it.
Thanks again guys,
Kevin
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I have also decided, that since I am not going the other route in this build, then I will, use a mechanical aaz head "anybody got one?" I will have to seek out the ways of tweaking this so that maximum performance can be had of course. I have been told these are easier to maintain, work on, and last. 8) I don't usually waver this much in my decisions, but...... I am usually more adamant about what I want to do. I want to listen to the little voices of reason on this forum "yous guys" for once ;D
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A 1.6 with an AAZ head would be better.. The extra point and a half of compression will make a world of difference.. Plus you'd actually be able to get pistons for it.. I dunno if this had been addressed or not, but you;d need to machine notches in the 1.5 pistons for the oil squirters on a turbo block.. I don;t know if this may weaken the piston too much or not.. THe regular TD pistons would have already been cast with this notch..
i wondered about notching the 1.5 pistons too, if it would weaken them too much..
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I have also decided, that since I am not going the other route in this build, then I will, use a mechanical aaz head "anybody got one?" I will have to seek out the ways of tweaking this so that maximum performance can be had of course. I have been told these are easier to maintain, work on, and last. 8) I don't usually waver this much in my decisions, but...... I am usually more adamant about what I want to do. I want to listen to the little voices of reason on this forum "yous guys" for once ;D
mechanical AAZ heads do not exist..
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sorry, my fault I am thinking about something else. It's what happens when you have www.spyderchat.com (http://www.spyderchat.com)
www.suzuki-forums.com (http://www.suzuki-forums.com)
the HAMB
www.vwvortex.com (http://www.vwvortex.com)
www.rabbitownersclub.com (http://www.rabbitownersclub.com)
all on the brain at the same time, and I have about seven different projects, on seven different cars, on seven different engines on several different forums. sorry guys, and if you don't believe me look it up on the other forums I have the same screenname on each.
So plugging the extra drain hole it will be. 1.6 rotating assy. combined with the aaz head lets get started. I'll be doing some reading all day today on this forum from those who have gone before me. A lot of material has already been covered, thanks guys.
Kevin 8)
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i wondered about notching the 1.5 pistons too, if it would weaken them too much..
Do the TD pistons have some variety of reinforcement cast into them?? I though I remember reading something about that here at one point.. Personally I think I would rather take my chances with no squirters versus milling a chunk outta the piston... From prior experience, melted pistons seem to be easier on the block than say a connecting rod slamming into the cylinder wall..
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just bend the squirters so they don't hit the skirt...won't cool as well but probably better than nothing. Or put a little extender on the end of the squirter to it gets up there. Just an idea though.
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There are guys who have done this with aftermarket rods in other engines. I'll tell you what, if someone wants to try it, I will give them my working 1.5 engine if something happens, in case the worst happens. any "good" machinist should be able to replicate the location and size of the holes given the original. these holes are pinsized and do not impact structural integrity as the internals are forged, or so I'm told. Been wrong before though, shoot, willing to offer up a whole working 1.5 for free if the worst happens, how many other blokes you know will do that?
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are there any mods for the oiling/cooling system? higher pressure pumps/mods? more volume? reservoir? dry sump?
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are there any mods for the oiling/cooling system? higher pressure pumps/mods? more volume? reservoir? dry sump?
Myke_w sells a 36mm oil pump.
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YEOWZERS!!! :o cool, I want one, I didn't see any testimonials when I looked it up though just everyone that bought on seemed happy, What, if anything does it actually do.
thanks,
Kevin
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YEOWZERS!!! :o cool, I want one, I didn't see any testimonials when I looked it up though just everyone that bought on seemed happy, What, if anything does it actually do.
thanks,
Kevin
Pushes more oil ;D, thus higher pressure. I think it's a must with a turbo and hydrolic lifters especially if you have a turbo block with the piston squirters.
I bought one and it bumped the hot oil pressure @ 2000rpm from 30 up to 50psi with 15w40 delo, strangely it's back down again though :(
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why the drop? something wrong? time to change the oil weight?
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why the drop? something wrong? time to change the oil weight?
I don't know, the drop happened last summer and now I have delo 10w30 so of course it's lower now 25psi @ 2000rpm, vw says iirc 28psi @ 2000.
I tell myself it's the gauge and that makes it tolerable ;D ......it is weird though seeing the gauge say 40psi at speeds that used to read 65 :(
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busted guage maybe? anywhoo I start the teardown of the 1.6 today after I get back home from work, and some much talked about pictures will be posted this evening. Everyone, I would like to take the time to thank everyone for their input so far, I want to have this thing on the road by x-mas, but I think everyone here knows how that goes.
thanks and Happy Holidays,
Kevin
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okay, So I'm going to make a list of all of the special tools that are needed to do this, eventually, when this is finished, I will re-post the pertinent information into the how-to section of this forum for all to see. Can anyone give me "I'm not lazy, just want it in a central location" a list of all of the specific special tools I am going to need for this build. I am also going to post a list of items and prices and where I got them so that other people can do the same thing I did. Right now I'm looking through the parts place catalogue, but if anyone knows where I can get stuff cheaper or better components "cuz I'm willing to spend more for better quality/performance" then by all means do so.
Thanks,
Kevin
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dude, you dont need any special tools, you arent taking a VW and a ford and making one engine, you are just playing with legos. how many special tools do you need to take legos apart? you need something to hold the cam from turning, you need a head bolt socket, and you need valve adjusting tools. and yet again, im gonna say the same thing.
you are over thinking this. most of us have great luck with a COMPLETELY STOCK bottom end. this is not a small block chevy here, we dont have near the aftermarket parts. thats why most of us will stick with oem parts on our engines. we cant just go get fancy water pumps and fancy oil pumps and crap like that. you just have to figure out what other VW engine used the part you want.
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sockets for cv joints and headbolts(both triple square), torque wrench, bit of steel plate to lock the cam(there is a special tool, but I just use a bit of metal), dial indicator(you can use the one with a special adapter for the pump, but I use a regular one with a stand, it works great for timing the pump, and I can use it for other stuff too like checking piston protrusion).
the other thing I recommend is a good(and I mean good) anti-seize compound, I put it on every bolt that doesn't need a perfect torque(headbolts, rod bolts, and mains should not be anti seized as it will change the torque spec) all the bolts on the outside of the block really could use a slather of anti-seize. that way they will come out again without complaining.
I also anti seize the injectors before installing them, it really helps get them back out later.
-Owen
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oh, and a three arm gear puller will be useful too.
I have one from sears that holds its arms clamped for you, which makes it easier to use, worth every penny.
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anti sieze is a no brainer tho, i thought every mechanic was addicted to that stuff? DO NOT USE COPPER ANTI SIEZE ON ANYTHING ALUMINUM OR THREADING INTO ALUMINUM, it will cause a chemical reaction and both metals will start to disappear.
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yeah, I use a aluminum based anti seize, that way I can use it on everything.
-Owen
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yea, the aluminum based stuff is good for most stuff, but for turbos and high heat applications use the copper stuff.
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no, im not basing it on old beetle engine cases. basing it on personal experience. my family fabricates aluminum boats. big ones. and we have used copper pipe and copper anti sieze on/in them, but not with the best of results. copper and aliminum do not agree. even a copper pipe clamped against aluminum will begin to eat both surfaces. just because the warning label doesnt say something, doesnt mean it wont actually do it. trust me on this andrew, it does have a chemical reaction. not over night or anything, but it happens.
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ah, well boats are in contact with water(sometimes with salt in it) and corrosion is a bigger issue with them than most everywhere else.
I use the aluminum based stuff because it is easy to get, and in my experience is just as good as copper, and can be used with magnesium(my automotive life started with beetles, so it was an issue there)
-Owen
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adding water(especially salt water) to the equation will change the corrosion quite a bit.
aluminum boats in salt water need to have a sacrificial anodes to keep the hull from corroding into oblivion, so maybe the aluminum/copper interaction in the presence of an electrolyte(turns into a battery)
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Triple square? I have been using torx t55 or something along those lines "probably why the thing snapped on me" ok need some of those and I now have a good list of special tools needed to assemble/dissassemblt these engines. I was also looking at oem parts, rabbitonroids mentioned before in this project to use a metal head gasket, where do I get one of these? I'll have to get a triple square set from the matco tool truck on thursday. I also need a pneumatic valve spring compressor to take the old aaz valves out to have them ground and clean/port the head. I must apologize for all of the performance related questions, I like to measure twice and cut once, I'm that guy that goes around his car and kicks all four tires before driving anywhere.
thanks again,
Kevin
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well you are now part of a community that pops the hood after parking regardless of whether it needs to be done, just to be sure that everything is still there.
the metal head gasket is from an AAZ motor, its a 1.9 IDI from canadian MK3's
the AAZ gasket can be hard to find in the us, but there are a few suppliers on this board that can get them.
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good to know, any place in particular I should shy away from? the reaction mentioned before is called an electrolytic reaction between copper and aluminumt he difference in the valence electrons create it with a solution as a transferring medium. You are correct, it is essentialy what happens in a battery, the difference of two potentials. It will occur on our engines and components under the correct conditions, which is why you don't hear of success stories where people use these engines in any marine applications. It should also be noted, I just learned this, is that you have to change out the compression washers in the injector wells everytime you remove them. I will need technical data/ torque specs because I am using mixed parts here, is anything different? all I have to go off of is the bentley I have for the 1.5.
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yes the injector "heat shields" need to be replaced every time you pull the injectors.
the torque spec is 50 ft-lbs, and the wrench should always be pushed into the head, never pulled away from it.
pulling away from the head can crack the bosses in the head, and they are not really repairable.
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:o wealth of knowledge gained here folks, all of this is going into the buid thres to come next, as promised are the pics.
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the 1.5 I pulled out, bearings going on it but looks good for having 250,000 miles on it, and I am only the third owner.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010460.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010461.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010462.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010463.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010464.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010465.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010466.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010467.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010468.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010469.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1010474.jpg)
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here is the mech 1.6 IDI turbo block that I got for $200.00 from a member up in pollock pines CA still has cross hatching visible with stock pistons.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020323.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020324.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020325.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020326.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020327.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020328.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020329.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020330.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020331.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020332.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020333.jpg)
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what calculator are you using to find out the comp ratio? does the metal head gasket make a difference?
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I was just using one of the generic calculators available on the net... I found a real good one that I wish I would have bookmarked.. All specs in metric and everything..
With the proper thickness HG metal or fiber shouldn't make that much difference I would think.... Maybe someone with more experience with those will chime in... Just remember, thinner than required HG is not a good thing.. Pistons tapping against the head make and awful sound..
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well it isn't going to matter for at least a month, the wifey laid down an ultimatum, get rid one of the cars or else.... :'( I have to rebuild the 1.5 and slap it into one of the bunny shells that I have, then I'm all set. I will se you all real soon, but I will stay here to keep info up on the build.
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I am not going to mess around, I am starting a list, of all of the things that I will need to make this work.
1.6 turbo long block: check
aaz head/ complete:
Have to choose which turbo either a vgt or vnt for sure. Until then I cannot choose intercooling options or exhaust mani or D/P, but the 1y intake seems promising.
new rebuild kit for the bottom end:
new vaccum pump:
upgraded oil pump:
dry sump oil pan "fabricated" gonna need some big help on this one guys:
arp fasteners, conrods and head studs:
metal head gasket:
water pump:
upgraded starter high torque/6v:
new tranny, havent looked at options for this yet either:
oil cooler:
replace all old worn out bushings in the car engine mounts, strut rubbers, etc.:
1.6turbo pump, send to giles:
send off "hot" parts to Jet hot to be coated with their good stuff:
rebuild the head and plug up the extra drain hole, grind the valves, seat them, clean the head, replace valve guides, head seals, port and polish,"before I put it all back together of course":
put it all back together, and put the engine and tranny in, hook up the glow plugs, starter, oil lines, fuel, intake/intercooler, exhaust, coolant, oil, tranny fluid, reconnect throttle cables and alternator wires etc. and I'm all set for the road.: whew! sounds easy but there is one more thing I have to do, document the entire affair with copious amounts of pictures and commentaries in the how to section.
thanks guys for the opportunities to work with some truly greats,
Kevin
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Vac pump is rebuildable, and the kit is not too spendy.
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very good to know :P
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I am not going to mess around, I am starting a list, of all of the things that I will need to make this work.
1.6 turbo long block: check
aaz head/ complete:
Have to choose which turbo either a vgt or vnt for sure. Until then I cannot choose intercooling options or exhaust mani or D/P, but the 1y intake seems promising.
new rebuild kit for the bottom end:
new vaccum pump:
upgraded oil pump:
dry sump oil pan "fabricated" gonna need some big help on this one guys:
arp fasteners, conrods and head studs:
metal head gasket:
water pump:
upgraded starter high torque/6v:
new tranny, havent looked at options for this yet either:
oil cooler:
replace all old worn out bushings in the car engine mounts, strut rubbers, etc.:
1.6turbo pump, send to giles:
send off "hot" parts to Jet hot to be coated with their good stuff:
rebuild the head and plug up the extra drain hole, grind the valves, seat them, clean the head, replace valve guides, head seals, port and polish,"before I put it all back together of course":
put it all back together, and put the engine and tranny in, hook up the glow plugs, starter, oil lines, fuel, intake/intercooler, exhaust, coolant, oil, tranny fluid, reconnect throttle cables and alternator wires etc. and I'm all set for the road.: whew! sounds easy but there is one more thing I have to do, document the entire affair with copious amounts of pictures and commentaries in the how to section.
thanks guys for the opportunities to work with some truly greats,
Kevin
VGT and VNT are the same thing, so that simplifies your deciding between a VGT and VNT.
why do you need a dry sump oil system? you need a dry sump oil pump, a goofy pan, a reservoir. waste of money.
why do you need different rods? you arent gonna have 40 psi at 2000 rpms or anything. waste of money.
why do you need a different starter? a newer diesel starter will work great, and they arent huge like the early ones. again, waste of money.
and another thing. why a pneumatic valve spring compressor? you can make your own for a couple pennies. do you have loads of money to just be wasting on gimmick parts? i would spend all that money on a bigger turbo and a more gilesified pump. maybe a better radiator. you totally missed the cooling system throughout the whole write up. talk to people like 53willys, hes been having some cooling issues with his 1.6/AAZ. im really not trying to bash your build, im just trying to keep you on track. i never had any of those gimmicks. neither did anyone else. they are not necesssary. i mean, sure, it would be cool to see it with a dry sump oiling system, but why? and why do you need better rods? VW rods are already forged and strong as crap.
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There are two styles of vac pump. The one pictured in your TD block is the rotary vane style. There is not any rebuild kit for it, but they tend to last forever without issue. The other style is the diaphragm style. They tend to tear diaphragms. There are rebuild kits available for them, but if you have a rotary I would try that before touching a diaphragm pump.
I had to chuckle at that, last winter I could've bought a good rotory pump on ebay for $25 but passed cause I didn't wanna pay that much ::). About two days later my diaphram ripped so I bought two rebuild kits on ebay for, um, 25 bucks ::).
Use the rotory pump. ;D
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why do you need a dry sump oil system? you need a dry sump oil pump, a goofy pan, a reservoir. waste of money.
The stock pan arrangement always struck me as akin to having your balls on the front of your foot where the big toe is usually found...
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i'd really like to try using an electric vacuum pump, but i don't think the ones i have in mind would be able to keep up with the demand of a brake booster, it might have a shot with a big vacuum reservoir but i doubt it. might as well switch to manual brakes if you do that tho, and i have the gear setup to do so hehe, hard to find the diesel parts to block off the vacuum pump hole
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VGT and VNT are the same thing, so that simplifies your deciding between a VGT and VNT.
why do you need a dry sump oil system? you need a dry sump oil pump, a goofy pan, a reservoir. waste of money.
why do you need different rods? you arent gonna have 40 psi at 2000 rpms or anything. waste of money.
why do you need a different starter? a newer diesel starter will work great, and they arent huge like the early ones. again, waste of money.
and another thing. why a pneumatic valve spring compressor? you can make your own for a couple pennies. do you have loads of money to just be wasting on gimmick parts? i would spend all that money on a bigger turbo and a more gilesified pump. maybe a better radiator. you totally missed the cooling system throughout the whole write up. talk to people like 53willys, hes been having some cooling issues with his 1.6/AAZ. im really not trying to bash your build, im just trying to keep you on track. i never had any of those gimmicks. neither did anyone else. they are not necesssary. i mean, sure, it would be cool to see it with a dry sump oiling system, but why? and why do you need better rods? VW rods are already forged and strong as crap.
[/quote]
Didi I put rods down? oops, I know these rods are strong. VGT and VNT are fundamentally different one works by changing the exhaust and one works off of changing the compressor side, they both have similar effects, almost/no turbo lag. I want a dry sump oil system because I live in southern ca and the roads are ratty "it bothers me how much clearance there actually is between the ground, and the bottom of the oil pan" oh, and I have weitec coilovers that lower the car like 6" "no, not really just exaggerating, but it's quite a bit" I know a guy that has an alternator shop and he owes me a favor, beside he is an old timer and does fantastic work "rebuilt the generator in my 54' plymouth savoy" I want the pneumatic one because I work on a wide variety of engines, I hve two 8v 1.8l gassers and a 1zzfe in my garage right now. I would love to have known about upgrading the cooling system earlier, sorry I missed that. I would never accuse you of bashing me, I know better. ;)
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why do you need a dry sump oil system? you need a dry sump oil pump, a goofy pan, a reservoir. waste of money.
The stock pan arrangement always struck me as akin to having your balls on the front of your foot where the big toe is usually found...
Skid plate baby!! I have part of an oil steam boiler welded to the bottom of my pan.. THe pan has lived though alot, and I think it helps with winter traction.. ;D
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I was honestly thinking of mid engine mounting it in my 78' but maybe later, for now I'll put it in the front. I do not want to add any undue for future purposes.
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why do you need a dry sump oil system? you need a dry sump oil pump, a goofy pan, a reservoir. waste of money.
The stock pan arrangement always struck me as akin to having your balls on the front of your foot where the big toe is usually found...
Skid plate baby!! I have part of an oil steam boiler welded to the bottom of my pan.. THe pan has lived though alot, and I think it helps with winter traction.. ;D
im going along these lines too. im gonna build a skid plate for my jetta when it gets the diesel transplant. screw it, mount it to the oil pan rain and to the front motor mount or something.
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(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020357.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020358.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020359.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020360.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020361.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020362.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020363.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020364.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020365.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020366.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020367.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020368.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/P1020369.jpg)
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As you can see I pulled the oil pan today, there was sludge all in this thing. The last guy who had it had some water inside somewhere, cause there is some surface rust on the crank and a couple of the rods. There was also a crapload of silicon on the oilpan "guy musta loved the stuff" ad some oil left in it for storage preservation. What kind of engine work should I get done at the mach. and don't you dare say line bore and hone "which isn't necessary, still has crosshatching visible" reinforce the bottom end? lighten the crank? balance the components? anything that I need to do before I put the bottom end back together. I am going to hot tank it and will dissassemble tomorrow for that. The head work I can do myself "port and polish etc. but I trust someone else to clean it.
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You should still give it at least a quick hone. Proper procedure whenever you're replacing rings.
You are replacing the rings, right? While it's already open, might as well, good preventative maintenance measure rather than putting god-only-knows-how-abused old rings back in...
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I do not have the time or money to replace the pistons with larger ones, or do I? anyone have an overbore set??? ;D No, I really want to keep this thing as close to 1.6L disp. as possible. What is absolute WCS?
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not the pistons, but definately should do the rings.
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replacing the rings can be as cheap as 20 bucks or so. or almost 100, depending on what rings you use. i would be interrested to see how a set of total seal second rings works on one of these motors.
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haven't heard of those.......Ok, you have my interest now what are they? I thought with diesel engines, that because of the high compression you can't do smaller pistons and bigger rings. ???
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smaller pistons and bigger rings? WTF are you talking about? you use the pistons that are in the engine right now. and you buy some total seal gapless rings. then you hone the bores and throw the new rings on the pistons. and then once you get it running, run it like ya stole it till the rings get good and seated. it will be appearent, it starts alot easier when the rings seat.
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gapless, oh...... with gas engines you can have undersize pistons with oversize rings, a hone will change the bore won't it, which means that the pistons will be undersize, I have never heard of these type of rings are they cast iron, chromoly? curious. More importantly, where can I get said piston rings?
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honing wont change the bore enough to worry about piston size.
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a hone it is then, but the question remains, where do I get the said rings and what are the benefits of running them, also, any downfall? rings
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You know, I really should start getting together a list of parts and their manufacturers as well as prices and where how I got everything. ;D I got the longblock mechanical turbo 1.6 from another member here, however others should keep their eyes on www.craiglook.com (http://www.craiglook.com), www.ebay.com (http://www.ebay.com), www.thesamba.com (http://www.thesamba.com), www.vwvortex.com (http://www.vwvortex.com), and any other vw forums such as www.rabbitownersclub.com (http://www.rabbitownersclub.com). look through the classifieds you may just get lucky. I got an g-60 intake from ebay, as well as a audi 5000s turbo intake for a pretty good price.
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I really need to start doing some research on a turbo, that way I can order/make my intake/exhaust mani's and the turbo itself. It's a buyer's market out there and I have found quite the treasure out and about for very little money. For what I'm doing, "25-35 psi boost" what is the best vgt/vnt setup? I would really like one of these type turbos for ease of use and low lag properties. However, I have been talked out of so many other things concerning this build, I could be wrong here too. :-[
thanks,
Kevin
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bmw 520 turbo? too big? I want my power close to the bottom end. I know that's what I want, as for the injection I have been told to find an ecodiesel pump and attatch the turbo 1.6 "UFO" to the top for the best of both worlds to prevent smoking, adding too much fuel, and subsequently, melting of the internals :o go? no go? also, anyone know the P/N's for these pumps? I am looking for a no crap way to determine which pumps are the eco diesel ones while searching.
Thanks,
Kevin
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I might not know much but I would think that a pump built by giles would be your best bet. From what I have read which is no where near enough, that you tell him what your doing and he will build you a pump that will perform like no other.
Also from some of my conversations with my friend who races/builds Porsche's that boost is not the all mighty answer to power. Sure 35lbs of boost might sound great but with out the right fueling, boost will provide nothing but excess heat. Say 20-25lbs of boost + the right fueling will yield more performance and create less drive pressure and less heat. This is a hypothetical situation. All I am trying to say is that, figure out the pump/fueling and don't worry about the numbers that you will be "boosting."
Like I said, I will be the first to admit that I claim to know nothing. I am just starting out and I want to learn also. If I am wrong on this let me know.
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that is my plan ;) I am trying to get my ducks in a row before I start doing anything crazy. I want one of these ecoTD pupms for the build or any 1.6 turbo pump for that matter to send to giles for the build. I need one to send to him though so the search still continues. I do need to go ahead and get the turbo though, I need to plan out my intake intercooler and exhaust mani's as well as any pipe work to be done. 8)
thanks for the advice though,
Kevin
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Got a 1.6 turbo pump today from ebay, now I need a rebuild kit and some info on how to tune this monster. Giles will have to come later, when I have more money. thanks for all of the help guys.
thanks again, and happy holidays,
Kevin
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if you want low end power, kiss a big turbo goodbye.
a K03 or K14 are good low end turbos, but they dont make no 25-35 psi boost. basically you get one or the other, not both. you can either have no low end, and loads of boost once the huge turbo spools, or <--- Large turbo
you can have lots of low end with no top end above about 4500 or so. <--- Small turbo
or, you can run a set of compound turbos and have low end boost from the small turbo, then once the big one lights off, hang on.
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that's going to be the plan, I have already started reading about some of the guys on here doing just that. Compound turbo setup for this guy, still think that dry sump is a foolish idea? ;D This, ladies and gentlemen, is going to be NUTS.
thanks,
Kevin
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Enthusiast, is the word used to describe people who love their cars, me..... hmmm well I guess since I'm not an enthusiast, I would be categorized as more like ......... AN EVIL SCIENTIST *DEMONIC GUFFAW* "MUWAHAHAHAHA" ;D
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ok, even with compounds, the downfall was, that none of the guys running them could keep them running long enough with compounds. they would alwasy ALWAYSblow head gaskets, or crack heads, or bend rods. the heads on vws actually flex and bend from the extreme cylinder pressures. ask andy2 about compounds. unless you want 50 or more psi boost (witch is kinda useless in a vw, cause you are gonna blow a HG or bend a head every time you boost it) you should just go with a nice sized single turbo. a K26 easily pushes 35 psi boost on a 1.6 VW. i was stuck on compounds for a long time too, but its kinda pointless and there flat just isnt enough room. i vote for a larger single turbo and a shot of nos to lite it. NOBODY ON HERE really has a build up with a nitrous setup if i remember right.
btw kev, my nick name amongst my friends is "The Mad Scientist".
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cool :D what about meth injection?
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methanol just keeps your egt's down. its more a chemical intercooler rather than a power adder.
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methanol just keeps your egt's down. its more a chemical intercooler rather than a power adder.
...although if you can knock your EGT's down then you can run more fuel... :D
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true, so i guess you could get more power from using methanol, but just not directly from the methanol.
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so....... run the twin turbo setup with meth injection. hmmmm... but that cuts out the ability to daily drive. I still want that. Gotta teach these yunguns a thing or too "them and their stupid mustang gt's"
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if you run compounds, you WILL bend rods, blow head gaskets, warp/crack heads, etc, etc. if you want THAT much boost, go with one big single with a shot of nos to spool it. most people on here are staying away from compound turbos for that reason. vw's dont take huge boost like a 12v cummins. if we could come up with a cast iron head, or some sort of head girdle, we could build some serious horsepower. but the heads on our vw's flex with too much boost. the head actually bends..
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:o wicked I kinda want to see that........ but I also kinda don't :'( okay so what can I do "other than nos to spool the big bad boy up?
44 psi thats ruff I think that 35-40 will be far more than enough for me. I was thinkin mid engine mounting it too good? bad? put a firewall behind the drivers seat, use the moonroof as a vent for the intercooler/cold air induction and make a custom exhaust to come out of the roof flush with the roof 8)
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why not just bolt it in the front of your rabbit? it botls in, its gonna be fun as hell. its like driving a street legal turbo charged diesel go cart. and if you do put the engine in the middle, i would put the i/c and radiator behind the grille like they were supposed to be. just use an electric fan, it will work great, and run the exhaust right out the stock spot. but a car like this has already been built, somebody over in europe has a 78 rabbit with a Mtdi and an audi transmission backwards. its basically just like a bug drivetrain setup. i just think that pulling air through your sun roof would be kinda dumb. sun roofs dont breathe very well as it is, so why not put your stuff to be cooled somewhere that they get tons of air? ie: stock location.. i was just thinking of the toyota previa van, they had the engine on its side about mid way back, and a jack shaft off the front running the accessories.
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custom roof scoop, already made it.... well, the mold at least I'll post up some pics later. My wife still has connections in Okinawa, Japan so I might just be able to get a hold of one of those.
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The roof scoop woudl just be aerodynamic drag.. Since the front end of these cars is already an aero dynamic drag why not take advantage of that? Putting the rad and IC out fround woudl help keep some heat ou of the passenger compartment.. Remeber that not only do you need to get the air into this stuff, it's gotta come back out just as fast, well probably faster since it's hot and expanded...
This is all getting me thinking about a TD Fiero again.. ;D
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I have thought about that too, and came up with some interesting ideas, still on the edge about this one ???
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the front of the car is set up to house everything already.. i would go for that. atleast for a little while.
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for now I think that I will just use a front standard type setup...... for now ;D
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Ok, I got my pump in today, I'm going to look into the DIY section for the rebuild info, however, is there a place that I should go to or stray away from for the rebuild kits? also where can I get one of these land rover pins for the pump or is it even worth it?
thanks guys,
Kevin
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NOBODY ON HERE really has a build up with a nitrous setup if i remember right.
Dr Diesel had a mk2 TD with nitrous.
On an unrelated note I heard rumors of a guy that built his own cast iron head. 80 psi rings a bell ;)
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On an unrelated note I heard rumors of a guy that built his own cast iron head. 80 psi rings a bell ;)
now thats what I want!
any details?
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He's on the forum and he'll post if he wants to.
Head girdles are something I have often thought about... not that NAs need them though...
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what is a head girdle? see, now you gots me all confuzed like ??? still would like to know how this meth injection setup would consist of directly ported into the intake mani? can I use a gasser system or would it be special order or something? nos is cool and all but just too volatile seen heads pop off a 350 mouse motor on the strip with nos and head studs....... just blew right off........ took the hood and everything. That scared the crap outta me then and it wasn 't even my car couldn't imagine if it had happened to me. :o still no word on a boost pin swap?
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I have looked into a head girdle( a metal plate to spread the pressure of the head studs across the head more evenly), but the head would require extensive milling to make one work well, and then custom studs would be necessary too.
an iron head would be the shizz, but would need to be custom and would cost big $$
the meth setup is pretty simple, but some of the parts re hard to get, I priced it out and by the time I got everything the kit was the same price.
A gasser meth kit will work, they are triggered by boost pressure, which works, but I am triggering mine by EGT this time around.
it should spray into the intake plumbing somewhere where it will be evenly dispersed to all the cylinders(and must be post intercooler if you have one)
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what is a head girdle? see, now you gots me all confuzed like ??? still would like to know how this meth injection setup would consist of directly ported into the intake mani? can I use a gasser system or would it be special order or something? nos is cool and all but just too volatile seen heads pop off a 350 mouse motor on the strip with nos and head studs....... just blew right off........ took the hood and everything. That scared the crap outta me then and it wasn 't even my car couldn't imagine if it had happened to me. :o still no word on a boost pin swap?
but you are not going to be shooting any extra fuel in with the nitrous. thats how you get the head blowing off. the extra fuel is injected through the injector. all methanol does is act as a chemical intercooler, it cools the air as it mixes with it. and it burns at a much lower temp than diesel, resluting in lower egt's and more dense air charge for more power. the methanol doesnt add power, it cools the air and the cold air adds power.
nitrous is also a chemical intercooler, but also an oxidizer. so when it burns, it also produces more oxygen as it burns. so it makes the air cold, and makes more of it.
make sense?
and why does everyone worry about swapping boost pins? take yours out and grind on it, that way you already have the pin, you dont have to spend any money, and then its done.
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ok, so I got the idea to use a 1000 watt block heater combined with using an oil heater. The dry sump is still on the drawing board they make kits for big cars to weld together reclaimer pans etc. so I'm thinking with one of those kits and some intuition I can make a damn good dry sump/ reclaimer pan with baffle. oil lines are going to get a little messy now "damn spaghetti" how should that run? oil pan to the turbo to the cooler to the res. back to the oil pan? gonna need a monster of an oil cooler for this thing :o
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have fun... its gonna be a royal ***. there isnt enough room under the hood for everything. twin turbos? dry sump oil system? intercooler pipes. wow. i thought mine was a cluster F***, but i only got intercooler lines, nothing else. so, have fun getting it all to fit.
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nah, twin turbos? I should go ahead and say it now, I will go another route just unecided at the moment looking at the 16/24 hybrid though, rare, but doable ;D
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I know, I'm full of these. Couple of questions. First, I was wondering, since I am putting in a dry sump, would it be wise to mill in a hole and tap into the oil return line to go back to the pan? or perhaps into the block/oil galley and if so what benefits/risk would be involved? Second, which head gasket shoould I use? P/N's? I was thinking metal because of the already low static compression but I need a guage to measure piston protrusion to know for sure. Thanks guys.
Happy holidays,
Kevin
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The oil pan heater's main duty is to help thin the oil and help the engine build pressure faster, I don't think it'll help with cold starting.
The biggest resistance is the oily pistons sliding in the oily cylinders, the block heater will take care of that.
And for your engine the reason for needing a block heater is to minimize heat loss/add more heat in the pre-chamber area since you're running a lower CR.
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That I understand, I just did not understand if an oil pan heater would help at all. Thanks for the heads up.
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i know where those pistons are, but im not telling 8)
an hour drive and 200 dollars isnt a bad price for 4 brand new mahles is it?
and also kev, have you thought of going the mTDI route yet? you are getting awefully in depth in this build, try a tdi maybe?
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Ok, so I took the 1.6 turbo bottom end apart, I also cleaned the block and crank, I will proceed to clean everything else tomorrow, I stole some snapshots in the dark after I brought everything back home. I plan to take the block to be hot-tanked. Doesn't need a line bore but I'll check the tolerances and order a re-ring kit with gaskets, and bearings, I will also be ordering the main studs from arp as well as the head studs, I already got some rod studs from another member "thanks ;D". I have seen some unusual crusting on a number of things inside the block, as well as some surface rust in various places, other than that looks good.
This first group is from the pistons/rods, they are all dirty, and not in the usual way, there is sand in the skirts of the pistons, and the crust I mentioned earlier is photographed in detail.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020662.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020663.jpg)
someone took the time to label all of these, and I believe that this particular engine has, in fact, been worked on before.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020664.jpg)
the crust, I am told that this is dried diesel and doesn't effect performance or otherwise, it looks to me like some sort of corrosion or oxidation ???
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020665.jpg)
next section is of the cleaned block, I took it to a place and scrubbed it in their solvent tank, this particular one is seasoned so it leaves some residual/protective oils :)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020666.jpg)
I took special care to clean the main and oil decks, you cannot see it here but the person who put the thing back together the last time just loved gray RTV he used on EVERYTHING!!! PITA to remove completely, whatever he used it worked "kinda curious to know what it is"
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020667.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020668.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020669.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020670.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020671.jpg)
I took close-ups of the crust on the oil pump cam and elsewhere inside the block, once again please let me know if this is a life-threatening condition.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020672.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020673.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020674.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020675.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020676.jpg)
I noticed something strange, the bearings were all the same except for one, the following three pictures are of which main the difference, and the place on the crank that wore differently than everything else, is this normal?
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020677.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020678.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020679.jpg)
These next pictures are of the deck, properly cleaned as well as the beautiful bores, no.1 has some oxidation from moisture possibly?
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020680.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020681.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020682.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020683.jpg)
This is cyl no.1 if you look closely I have a closeup on the oxidation
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020684.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020687.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020688.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020689.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020690.jpg)
next is the crank I have a question about this too, I have heard here on the forums that the crank nose is an achilles heel to these engines where the key is concerned if so do I have one of said weak keys?
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020691.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020692.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020693.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020694.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020695.jpg)
if you look in the picture above, I have an I/R 3/4drive impact, I know what you are thinking, "why in the world would someone need an impact like that???" Lemme put it to you this way "FOR WHEN IDIOTS USE RED LOCTITE TO PUT THE CRANK BOLT BACK IN!!!" >:(
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020696.jpg)
Last one, the crank does have some surface rust, and I will have to get to a groove in the rear main and rub her down, but other than that everything looks good, now all I need is some plasitguage to measure things out and I can order the parts.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020697.jpg)
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What kinda pistons we talkin bout??? The kind I just might want? for a price that's just right? whaddaya say there rabbitonroids? ;)
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no, thats the thing, im not telling. i wasnt kidding around.. i want those pistons. only set of 1mm over size ive ever seen for sale. besides, if i drive up to the guy and buy them, im not going to ship them off to someone else, sorry. if they were a little more available, i would hook you up no problem.
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Those are the oversize for the 1.5 right? if so I don't need those, I am curious, I have an 11mm headbolt holed block, anything I should know? I also want to run arp mainstuds, headstuds, and rod bolts, are the P/N's gonna be different??? the bore printed on the pistons is 75.98, as far as I know, that is the stock bore, but the rods lack the oil holes that I have heard about. I am going to get new main and rod bearings and rings, now, you said something before about some complete seal rings good? bad? ugly? anything else I should change? Of course I realize that the seals will need replaced, but other than that what else is there? The bottom end should be the easiest to do, all that is left is to take it to the mech and take like .001 off of the deck and hot tank her to get all of the crap out of it, and to prep her for ceramic paint. If I take the pistons off of the rods will I need to change anything? I want to send them of to be coated, can I leave them just like this? I still have to reassemble and check tolerances, probably tomorrow, I'll keep everyone posted. Also, do I need more pics? ;D
Kevin
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My memory was a little fuzzy, these pistons are, in fact, overbore, how much is that going to effect my build? I, of course, will need oversize rings. *BEN STEIN* Yipee :( How much will this effect static comp ratio? This engine is in otherwise great shape. I'll take some pics of the pistons tomorrow, the block is going for it's acid bath and decking. If I can go ahead with the build, then I suppose that I would get a little more power from this setup, but not what I wanted. If this engine is no good to go ahead with the build does anyone want to get an early 11mm overbore turbo longblock? In exchange of course for another that will work for the build. I am really curious to know what it would be like to use the 1.5 rotating assy. I would like to see the dyno results with the same setup between the two, that is if the engine with the shorter stroke can actually start ;D
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My memory was a little fuzzy, these pistons are, in fact, overbore, how much is that going to effect my build? I, of course, will need oversize rings. *BEN STEIN* Yipee :( How much will this effect static comp ratio? This engine is in otherwise great shape. I'll take some pics of the pistons tomorrow, the block is going for it's acid bath and decking. If I can go ahead with the build, then I suppose that I would get a little more power from this setup, but not what I wanted. If this engine is no good to go ahead with the build does anyone want to get an early 11mm overbore turbo longblock? In exchange of course for another that will work for the build. I am really curious to know what it would be like to use the 1.5 rotating assy. I would like to see the dyno results with the same setup between the two, that is if the engine with the shorter stroke can actually start ;D
there is NO SUCH THING as a 11mm turbo block. not to my knowledge. never seen or heard of one. but im pretty sure they did not exist. 11mm blocks are garbage. if you can find a 1.6 with stock bore cylinders, then a 1.5 would be easy to build in a 1.6 block. 1.5 stock bore pistons are not very rare.
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I have an 11mmX5.0 tap and it fits perfectly into the holes a 12mm tap is too big :'( that's bad.... isn't it it is a turbo block, it has the oil squirters, and has been identified by others earlier as a 1.6 turbo block, it is a mech block and from what was said previously is an earlier block. Could the early age account for the small diameter holes? What to do now? I already paid good money for this thing. I don't plan on running 1.5 pistons, but, I want to keep it as stock as possible. Realistically, I want the hydro block with stock bore to marry up perfectly with the aaz head.
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What is the code on the block in front of cyl 3?
You sure it's 11mmx5.0?
Also 11mm headbolts doesn't mean it's a 1.5, it could also be a 1.6.
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I'ts a 1.6, check the pictures. I have been told, quite a few pages back, that the early 1.6's had 11mm holes and later they switched to 12mm. I just need to know what my options are now, that is, has anything significantly changed in the build process or will anything have to change? I really want to do this right, please have mercy, this is my very first from the bottom up engine build of this nature. The block is currently at the machinist getting hot tanked and .0001 taken off of the deck, as well as my 54' plymouth block.
Thanks,
Kevin
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1.6's had 11m bolts till 1982ish.. Turbos weren't an option till '84... Get that block code when you get your black back, it has to be 12mm unless it's made from the same thing as oversized 1.5 pistons...
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got the pic on page 9 it's cy 111 761 look if you want, these are the same thing. I am a bit puzzled then ??? possibly a modified block with overbore pistons and installed oil squirters? good? bad? ugly?
thanks,
Kevin
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CY is a turbo block used in the 83-84 Rabbit, and 83-86 Jetta.. I guess there were a few TD '83 models but they are rare.. 86 was the changeover for hydro lifters, your block is for mech lifters It is a 12mm block... You sure the threads aren't just gunked up causing the 12mm tap to feel too tight??
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CY became available in August of 1981, meaning the beginning of model year 1982, for both Golf and Jetta. AFAIK, the CY's had mechanical lifters up to '1984, and 1985 should be the first hydraulic model year. For example, I have a hydraulic CY as a spare engine.
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I suppose that the holes could be full of junk, only the hot-tanking will tell. When I ran the tap there was lots of sand and dirt and greasy stuff but no metal shavings that I could tell.
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If you have a headbolt maybe measure the length and tell us the number, 11mm bolts are shorter than 12mm......or for that matter just measure the diameter of the bolt ::)
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if its a turbo block, it isnt 11mm. simple as that. never came from the factory that way.
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I got it as a shortblock less the headbolts but I do have the headbolts from the 1.5 that I have, like I said I'll just have to wait till it comes back from the mech. What I do know is that when I tried to run an 12mm tap through the holes I ran into considerable resistance, and I did not want to f-up the holes, I am not disagreeing with anyone here that they come from the factory with anything but, I just want to get to the bottom of this and move on. Is it a: a block that according to everyone here does not exist b: a converted 1.6 n/a that has the piston squirters installed c: a true blue 1.6 turbo block with really gunked up dirty bolt holes. I do not require an answer from anyone per-se, as I said before, only time and a return from the mech will tell. I f it is, in fact, 11mm bolt holes what are my options? what is my next step? should I go for a different block? This is the support I kind of expect from the community not scrutiny from someone who doesn't believe despite my honesty. I have nothing to gain from lying to anyone here and everything to lose. I am sincerely worried about what for this means for the build and I have already sunk a considerable amount into it, and I want to see it through to completion. So, I think that the real question here is NOW WHAT?
thanks guys,
Kevin
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I don't think anyone's questioning your honesty, it's just kinda weird that it's a CY with 11mm if there's no such thing......I guess we'll find out when you check it again. ;D
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Sorry, it just feels that I'm being attacked here :-\ I want to know just like everyone else. ;D
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well, anything is possible, the motor I am fighting with right now has an early crank and 12mm head bolts(supposedly the crank was changed to the newer style before the headbolts were changed to 12mm)
clean the threads out really good, a 11mm bolt will thread into the 12mm block with surprising ease(and will lead you to think it is an 11mm) and it is not uncommon for there to be so much garbage in the threads to make putting the 12mm in there hard.
if you are having the block hot tanked, the threads should clean out good.
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I got it as a shortblock less the headbolts but I do have the headbolts from the 1.5 that I have, like I said I'll just have to wait till it comes back from the mech. What I do know is that when I tried to run an 12mm tap through the holes I ran into considerable resistance, and I did not want to f-up the holes, I am not disagreeing with anyone here that they come from the factory with anything but, I just want to get to the bottom of this and move on. Is it a: a block that according to everyone here does not exist b: a converted 1.6 n/a that has the piston squirters installed c: a true blue 1.6 turbo block with really gunked up dirty bolt holes. I do not require an answer from anyone per-se, as I said before, only time and a return from the mech will tell. I f it is, in fact, 11mm bolt holes what are my options? what is my next step? should I go for a different block? This is the support I kind of expect from the community not scrutiny from someone who doesn't believe despite my honesty. I have nothing to gain from lying to anyone here and everything to lose. I am sincerely worried about what for this means for the build and I have already sunk a considerable amount into it, and I want to see it through to completion. So, I think that the real question here is NOW WHAT?
hey kev, im not attacking you, im just telling you that there is no possible way you have an 11mm turbo engine. it never happened. if its a turbo engine with 11mm holes, someone made it that way, thats all im saying, not attacking you.
your gonna get that block back and its gonna be 12mm holes. bet money on it.
thanks guys,
Kevin
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got my aaz head in today, looks great, no cam sprocket though :'( anyone know where I can get one of these? is there a standard or is this one special? 8)
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ok, so safari crashed once and I forgot all that I said so here goes again pictures:
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020711.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020712.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020713.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020714.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020715.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020716.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020717.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020718.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020719.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020720.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020721.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020722.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020723.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020724.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020725.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020726.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020727.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020728.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020729.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020730.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020731.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020732.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020733.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020734.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020735.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020736.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020737.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020738.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020739.jpg)
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Since the post was acting goofy with that many pictures in it combined with text, I replied to explain the pictures. I hope that everyone can see all of these and they are detailed enough to see all of the problems that I am having. I got this AAZ head, but I have some concerns, is it a true blue aaz head? or a prothe head, and how can I tell? There is a reason I ask, and it is that the head seems weak, and/or soft, there are many dents and deep gouges in it, I have frankly worked on gasser heads stronger than this and my 1.5 head is sure as hell not this weak. I got it assembled and have disassembled it and cleaned it in a solvent tank with a plastic brush and afterwards used a VERY FINE die grinder pad to clean off all of the contact surfaces of gasket, carbon, oil etc. I found heavy pitting on these surfaces as well, and the thing looks practically new, I just don't understand??? how can it have so much corrosion? the intake runners were clean but the valves had heavy carbon deposits due to an improper seal from the crack in between the valves obstructing it's normal closure. You will also see dents "not all of them, I assure you" These are not from me, and some of them occur on the combustion surface and make it uneven so that a proper seal will not work. I was fortunate enough to have the valve cover and oil cap sent as well, but I need to know if I can use this in my build or not. I am making a trip to the machinist to pick up my 1.6 block "YAY it's done" and wantto drop this off to get milled/prepped for the build. I want to get everyones opinion on this can I use it??? The cracks go from the precups to the valveseats in two places and can be felt with the hand.
Thanks guys,
Kevin
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That's an original VAG head, hence the markings Audi, VW and Germany ;)
Those cracks on the other hand don't look very good. Between valves they're always cracked, but the cracks between valve and pre-cup may be a problem.
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sooooo, is that an aaz or not an aaz, or are you just stating that it is an authentic vwgroup engine? ????Boat anchor???? :'(
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It´s 1,9 head.
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its a JUNK 1.9 head. theres cracks where there shouldnt be. i would not use that head. its going to crack more. sorry dude, but thats my thoughts.
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so, boat anchor, damn paid good money for it too as a rebuildable core. NOW WHAT?I have spent the dough and have a German engineered paperweight where can I get another aaz head from? I am so angry and frustrated at this point >:( I am not giving up at this point but have wasted money in this build and have taken a chance on love and lost out I feel like such a loser :-[ I am going to have the machinist pressure test her and see what he says, anyone think of a way to repair this? I know it isn't like iron, but repair at this point would probably be cheaper right, but on the same token I don't want to go all of the cheap route and end up with something that won't take what I will throw at it too. *frustrated sigh* ???
thanks guys,
Kevin
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It can be welded, it´s done gazillion times. But new heads from Germany are cheaper. I don´t know if they ship to states and how expensive is that.
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Maybe try returning it to whoever you got it from, it's got so many dings it looks like someone dropped it down the stairs.
That one crack between the valves looks deformed, little cracks are fine but it looks like it got smacked so it's hanging out over the valve seat.
Those cracks going out to the prechamber are not good, they can "probably" be fixed but I doubt it would be cheap.
Sorry man. :'(
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Anyone know of where I can acquire said goodies??? I really thought I struck gold here, and in this persons defense I was a bit hasty and didn't ask for pictures or clarification. The cracks from the precups were not visible until the old head gasket material had been removed with the extra fine wheel and copious amounts of solvent. I got it quite dirty "knew I shoulda snapped some pics" but she is all clean now, shoot I even put a fresh grind on the valves. This really puts a hamper on things, but I would really like to move on and just get another head, and no, not one from our mutual friend Mr. Prothe.
Thanks,
Kevin
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Looks like someone tried to peen that one crack between the valves shut... Bang for the buck I don;t think it would be worth getting it fixed.. For me personally I would be constantly worried about the crack returning and the pre cup falling out..
I think I would start with the suggestion of talking with the person you bought it from.. Maybe they'd be willing to make it right somehow.. Even if it was a partial refund since you now at least have all the parts to reinstall in another bare head..
Personal preference again, I wouldn't buy one from Prothe because of his constant screw jobs he hands out on IP's.. But if it really would come down to a lack of options, other's have used his heads with good results.. Save that for a LAST resort though..
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Well, all has worked in the end. And I got the unique distinction to meet someone from the forums "well, semi- in person" over skype. For the record, he is a great, stand-up guy, but without his permission I won't divulge his info. Hindsight being what it is, I probably shouldn't have posted about the trouble, just a bit excited I guess. I don't want to give someone the false impression that I would blackmail them or would use their online reputation against them as leverage. Those are worth more than just money nowadays. It also isn't very Marine like to participate in that activity, and I just wanted to make that perfectly clear, I am an ambassador to everyones idea of an American and I represent the best our country has to offer, it's a big responsibility and not one I take lightly. All of that out of the way, anyone have an aaz head for sale? No cracks this time ;)
Kevin
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I'm not saying to trash the guy's rep.. He may not have known it was cracked if you couldn't see them due to the gunk on the head. I've sold things I though were useable and it turned out they weren't.. It happens.. Talk to him.. If he opts to do nothing, fine, let it at that.. But if he offers to help make it right, all the better.. Then you can let it be known what an extraordinary good kind of guy he is...
Personally I like to know if I sold something that was less than what I advertised it as... When I did alot of selling on ebay I think I annoyed some people with my followups on a sale.. But at least I knew what to look for on the next similar item if I sold something that wasn't up to par...
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If another head come up during my travels I'll let you know ;)
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I know that rabbitonroids will be happy to learn this as I am flabbergasted, I have found aaz heads on ebay germany even complete engines for not that much, just that my german is a bit rusty "will have to go to the library and borrow muzzy" The prices on some look really good now if I could only read german :-[ ebay canada is flooded with the prothe heads from mexico and china. there have got to be junk yards full of these things if only I lived in Canada ::)
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I think prothe has operations in Europe as well :(
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there have got to be junk yards full of these things if only I lived in Canada ::)
I've never seen one in a junkyard up here, and I keep a pretty close watch on the classifieds. When they do come up, they're never cheap.
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The last 4 AAZ heads I pulled all had cracks going to the precups
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I know that rabbitonroids will be happy to learn this as I am flabbergasted, I have found aaz heads on ebay germany even complete engines for not that much, just that my german is a bit rusty "will have to go to the library and borrow muzzy" The prices on some look really good now if I could only read german :-[ ebay canada is flooded with the prothe heads from mexico and china. there have got to be junk yards full of these things if only I lived in Canada ::)
I've seen a few here at the scrapyards. I thought about a 1.9 head but then i heard it can be harder to start and once the cold hits, that's no good for me.
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On the east coast you find MK3's in scrap yards alot because they rot out. But as for a diesel that are rare finds. I find them in people's back yards.
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On the east coast you find MK3's in scrap yards alot because they rot out. But as for a diesel that are rare finds. I find them in people's back yards.
Opposite problem out here. Lots for sale with decent bodies, but high mileage, usually for a fairly high price too.
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On the east coast you find MK3's in scrap yards alot because they rot out. But as for a diesel that are rare finds. I find them in people's back yards.
Opposite problem out here. Lots for sale with decent bodies, but high mileage, usually for a fairly high price too.
Monday I'm going to look at a Jetta GT with a Good Floor....I have to go look for myself since I don't believe them lol The last the last MK3s I've owned 94, 96, 96, 97, 97, 98, All had rotten floors in teh same places
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Kaneb, dude!!! hook me up bro :o lemme get onna them, I pay really fast. just no cracks please, I'm tryin to quit ;).
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Looking to make a vnt17/22 hybrid so I'm also on the lookout for the necessary parts for that as well. I'm really good at searching for stuff just that no one is selling what I need right now "my luck it will be for sale when I go to afghan in oct."
thanks guys,
Kevin
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Kaneb, dude!!! hook me up bro :o lemme get onna them, I pay really fast. just no cracks please, I'm tryin to quit ;).
If one shows up in our pound after an accident, I'll try and get my hands on it. But I bought most the junk ones up here already lol
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so, according to your sig. the 17/22 vnt hybrid doesn't exist LOL!
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Out of curiosity, what name do these vnt17 or vnt22 turbos also go by, and who makes them, it will make my search more stratified, and much easier the more I know about them.
thanks,
Kevin
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you cant just bolt a 17 and a 22 together and have a hybrid. thats why a 17/22 costs like 3 grand...
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DUR DUR DUUUR.... of that I am well aware man. but if I can find both I am in buisness. The Marine Corps is a diverse place full of all kinds of people from all walks of life, and all talents. lets just say that I know a guy who can do the hybrid but I need the parts to do it. I once met a cat from detroit that worked at monkeywrenchracing the guy owns a 240sx with an ls1 under the hood tubbed with steamrollers, he was my student for a while.
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I may have another aaz head lined up, I've got my fingers crossed. 8) Looks pretty promising so far.
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I'm thinkin of starting another thread to put that busted aaz head on a 1.5 bottom end.... just for fun, I do realize that the static compression will be low, but I think that here will be ways to combat this. I am basically just bored waiting for the new..er aaz head to come in. Also if anyone gets a chance I'm selling my 54' savoy project car in the sales section.
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Still searchin hard for the following, tranny"which would be best for what I'm doing, I have heard good things about the 02a" turbos, I want to do the 17/22 hybrid and need both or the parts for it "I know a guy, that can meld the two together" I'm currently working a couple of intake mani ideas one from the audi 5000 and one from the g60. I will also need all of the exhaust components, D/P, flanges"I can weld", mani, intercooler and piping, and various other nick knacks and paddiwhacks to give the dog a bone. It's not so much of a matter of money, but of time, and finding the components that I need, and a bit of a lack of knowledge, I have been searching the forums and have found a lot of information but to be perfectly honest, am a little confused on some things like the jargon and terminology for some things. If I started rattling on about the TD1234 for switch networks, no one here, outside the military, would know what I'm talking about either. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I just lack the knowledge and experience here to know everything, and it takes some serious dedication of time to read everything that it took some years to compile. I am extremely resourceful, and am a self-proclaimed master of the google, and can find stuff that most deem unfindable, but my channels aren't the same as some others.
thanks,
Kevin
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garrett makes the VNT turbos, it is a matter of finding the bits and parts on donor cars. Here is some info from the dodge garage. I use it for my old Galdiator p/u, it has some solid info.
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I've got an 02J trans. in my Scirocco. You'll need some mounts made up to bolt it in. Its an EGR coded trans. with the cable clutch
actuator, still using the rod linkage .
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee10/joshmarstall/PICT1136-1.jpg).
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I've got an 02J trans. in my Scirocco. You'll need some mounts made up to bolt it in. Its an EGR coded trans. with the cable clutch
actuator, still using the rod linkage .
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee10/joshmarstall/PICT1136-1.jpg).
So you've got a gasser intake, VC, head and starter with an injector pump bolted on too :o....does it run? ;D
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It's just for mock up to see if it all fits and whats needed for moding.
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Whew, I thought I was seein' things already ;D.
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I am currently engaged in cleaning/ overhaulin the injectors, I assume that these are the preferred injectors for the aaz/frankenengine build. Pics soon to come. I also wanted to ask, can I use some valve springs from a gasser in the head? I have noticed a few others doing this, and I have a 1.8 8v head sittin around doin nothin from an 84 gti the springs aren't a direct match but will it work, and if so are there any benefits to doing so? I don't think that anyone has a writeup for the aaz injectors, two-stage right? so I think I'll tackle that, kill two birds with one stone kinda thing. the nozzles say: 764 DNOSD308
(955) FRANCE
Just like that are these the coveted 308's that everyone wants? The injector housings are in rough shape and are pitted to hell "quite old from the looks of it" but still rebuildable I think.
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Totally off topic stupid question for Powered by Spearco: Where'd ya get the metal ball and socket shifter linkage parts??? I'm stick of crappy plastic shifter parts and am planning to upgrade...
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Maxfax, hope you like waiting for parts cause they came from the hart land of Germany. I got them from
grasshopperdrag.de . They got some other cool stuff too.
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Interesting.. They look identical to the lawn mower tie rod ends I'm working with.. Thanks for the info!
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I'm running the AAZ injectors with Bosio GTD nozzles now in my engine. Very noticeable difference in idling and overall running. Cold starts are better at least.
The stock 1.6 injectors with "Smogs" GTD nozzles, ran rough at first start and smoked more "white smoke".
They really put out the fuel! Just to much for now with tune.
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I LOVE this thread, we should have a MOD make it sticky for newbs ;DLOL! Good stuff everyone, not answering all of my questions...... buuuuut......... great stuff, keep it coming. 8)
Thanks,
Kevin
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so for me, for my build and what I intend to do what nozzles should I go with?
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I don't know, have'nt read it all yet ::).
My cylinder head is heavly ported, stock valves, stock TD pistons, stock intake and ex., stock turbo, but a custom pump from Giles.
That pump has enough fueling for your engine and mine together :o >:(.
I'm tring to build a drag racing engine not a daily driver, so what I use and what works for me might not be what you'll be using or work for you. Make sence.
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Here are the pics I promised
Before:
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020745.jpg)
The cleaning process
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020744.jpg)
To get the rust off
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020746.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020747.jpg)
With the pitting before cleaning, only managed to do one today, I'll try to get more done tomorrow. I also haven't cleaned/overhauled the insides yet, will have to find that rebuild thread again for guidance.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020757.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020758.jpg)
let me know if I am missing any pieces, or if I'm stupid and for get something please.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020759.jpg)
Nozzle
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020760.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020761.jpg)
Housing
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020762.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020763.jpg)
The pitting is pretty bad
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020764.jpg)
I must admit, I was thinking of painting these... until.....
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020765.jpg)
I took a wire brush to it and cleaned up the housing, looks good now. I still might paint it ::) ;D
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/injector%20cleanup/P1020766.jpg)
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I want this to be daily driveable, however, I want to be able to do some VERY! spirited driving every now and then if the good lord permits. 8)
In one of the pics you can see the carter 1bbl carb from my 54' plymouth oops :P :-[
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Those beautiful hands of yours don't look like they've ever seen a hard days work ;D.
Just kidding.
As far as the right parts, I've never seen the AAZ injectors pulled apart. The 1.6, yes.
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apparently you didn't see the wart on my left index finger. ;) Or the scar on the middle finger of the same hand leading up torwards the nail. I got the scar from playing with a REALLY sharp Bowie knife..... "What! I'm a MARINE Dammit" I got the wart cuz I play with frogs a lot ;D howabout the detail in these pics great huh? I love my camera. :)
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I just got the GoPro HD. Still tring to figure it out to post some video.
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get a youtubeacct. , or photobucket does video now too 8)
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Heres some video of the first start with block heater, no cold start advance AAZ GTD injectors.I recorded this in 1080i and thats why its jerky. My computer is too slow.
http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee10/joshmarstall/?action=view¤t=GOPR0008.flv (http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee10/joshmarstall/?action=view¤t=GOPR0008.flv).
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Wow, it worked. Open it up to full size :o.
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yours is a frankenbuild? 1.6 bottom with aaz head? overcome coldstarts? that is the encouragement that I needed, thanks. 8)
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OK, heres just one more. This is your thread, so sorry to jack it with my vids.
I had the G-Tec plugged in to get a HP #.
http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee10/joshmarstall/?action=view¤t=GOPR0009.flv (http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee10/joshmarstall/?action=view¤t=GOPR0009.flv).
.
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very nice 8), stuff like this is not clutter
As for this..... well:
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/aaz%20head/P1020734.jpg)
bad dirty injector, bad, bad >:(
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I am rebuilding my own injectors, which nozzles should I use, and what breaking pressure should I go for? Keep in mind that I am building a fire breathing dragon here. As I understand it, the higher the braking pressure the more atomized the diesel becomes, allowing for more adequate burning of the fuel/air mixture, thats good right? So the object is to increase breaking pressure right? I have heard good things about using other nozzles and I'm curious to try some for myself, where do I get the thicker shims and nozzles?
thanks,
Kevin
Forgot to mention that these are the two stage aaz injectors and they have two shims/spacers, I checked vinces' webpage, but he doesn't list where to get the "STUFF :-X"
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I am having a hell of a time finding the info I need. I have used the search function to no avail :'( please help. I know, I'm so needy, but this is my first diesel and my very first build, I'm still learning, and I still have such a long way to go. 8)
thanks guys,
Kevin
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I dont know much about the two stage AAZ injectors, but I have heard that they are a royal pain in the butt to calibrate opening pressures, lots of people with AAZ's use the 1.6 injectors as they are easier to calibrate, and are just as capable of making big power.
as for the opening pressure, there is some debate, but if you increase opening pressure there will be more parasitic power loss from the injection pump, and timing will be retarded(as it takes more time to generate the extra pressure)
I would say, using 1.6 injectors and leaving them at stock opening pressure would be just fine(130 or 155 BAR depending on the pump used)
-Owen
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Word ;).
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I am using a late td injection pump and swapping a rover pin, eventually send it to giles when I have the cash. I have had the aaz injectors apart and the design isn't complicated "or so it would seem" is it possible to manually advance the timing or is that impossible? advanced manual timing with retarded injectors? In other words, is there a way to compensate, and does this affect max revs? "I want to get as high as possible, which I'm told is rather limited mostly by the pump" There appears to be a sort of resonance/pulse between the two springs/injections how does that affect performance? Has anyone played with them? Who, if anyone, is running a performance aaz injection setup? and if worse comes to worse, where can I get a set of the 1.6 injectors? I have the ones from my 1.5 will those work or are they different? anyone want to trade for some really clean aaz injectors? Lets just say for arguments sake that I get the 1.6 injectors, I have heard that there are different kinds, does this refer to the nozzle, either way which nozzle should I use and I want dyno proven results to back it up if someone has them "a lot of speculation has driven me to do this" Once again, sorry for all of the questions, but that's why I started this thread for my build. I also do not want to sound ungrateful for all of the wonderful advice and help I have received thus far, and if it sounds like I'm using you, just so you know, that isn't the case.
Cheers,
Kevin
P.S. My new...er aaz head is finally on it's way *fingers crossed* :-\
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as for the opening pressure, there is some debate, but if you increase opening pressure there will be more parasitic power loss from the injection pump, and timing will be retarded(as it takes more time to generate the extra pressure)
Makes sense, the pressure has to have time to build up, and it takes more time to do this, especially at high rev's. Is there a way to compensate pump wise, or otherwise for that matter?
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http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=762 (http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=762)
This is what I'm going for turbo wise, but I don't have that kind of money to drop on it. The search continues for the parts necessary to do this. I have heard that the dodge sprinter has these vnt-22's but where can I get a vnt-17?
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http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=762 (http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=762)
This is what I'm going for turbo wise, but I don't have that kind of money to drop on it. The search continues for the parts necessary to do this. I have heard that the dodge sprinter has these vnt-22's but where can I get a vnt-17?
off an 01 alh tdi 110 horse model only.
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WOW! :o I have come a long way from page one, and still such a long way to go, but I could not have done it without everyones help. Thanks.
Kevin
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Found my rover pin/modified boost pin, thanks rabbitonroids. *breaks out into song, visions of QUEEN* "and another one bites the dust" one thing down...... nine million more to go :P
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is this the right sprocket?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=852132 (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=852132)
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Ok, so I think I got the necessary cam sprocket from ilikevwdiesel, thanks. I got the "not the rover pin" but a peugeot boost pin from reanp, thanks to him and thanks to rabbitonroids for the suggestion. So now I need:
1:seals, rings and bearings for the 1.6 td bottom end
2:mod the oil res. to be a dry sump pan
3:uprated oil pump
4:arp studs for everything
5:oil lines, fittings for the oil reservoir turbo cooler etc. "gonna be a spaghetti bowl of oil lines, and I'm gonna be soooo paranoid of leaks it won't be funny"
6:oil cooler, reservoir
7:vnt 17/22 hybrid
8:1.6 single stage injectors? "still torn between the aaz injectors with a different nozzle or these"
9:nozzles
10:intercooler and piping
11:exhaust mani, and D/P "homemade turbo headers anyone?"
12:mech lifters for the aaz head courtesy of another members hard work and dedication
13:oil return pump, fuel lift pump and toggles
14:guages, and thermo couple wiring and more toggle switches "noticing a trend here?"
15:toggle switches :PJK fast glow plugs and relay
16:upgrade the charging system
17:meth injection system baby, ooooooohhhhhhh yeeeaaah!!! 8)
18:insert small dumb stuff here that you don't think of but def. need
19:insert things that will go bad that I forgot to replace thanks Arb for this one, and I just know it will happen so I might as well just start dissasembling the head and reassembling it again. :-[
20:insert stuff here that I forgot to add than everyone here will be sure to chime in on.
none of this is in chrono order so it's not nec. the way it's going down.
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Went to my friends garage and used his media blaster today "he needs new media, so I'll front it for his kindness" I'll post up pics tomorrow.
goin to hit the rack,
Kevin
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found the vnt22 and I have a friend who rebuilds turbos, so now i'm in buisnesss in the turbo respect. I'm haveing trouble finding the info on the hydro head plug for the return hole from the putting a hydro head on an mech block, anyone help?
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1.) turn head upside down
2.) locate front small oil drain
3.) tap threads into it
4.) install half inch pipe plug, or whatever size it takes, cant remember exactly right now.
no ***, its that easy. then you gotta cut a piece of rubber gasket to go in between the water jacket port and the hole in the AAZ gasket for the front oil drain.
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In respect to rebuilding the head, I may need a number of things we will have wait and see, gonna pick up the block today, pics to come soon.
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will a fuel cooler from a 300 HP blown turbo v6 detroit diesel work as an oil cooler for our cars? It's made by "Behr" sp? and is all aluminum these units have been removed because of an upgraded part modification to the motor. In case you are curious they come from a military lav's engine and have been just thrown away. Not adequate for a V6 but adequate enough for us I wager. 8)
edited for content now reads 300 instead of 30 :o
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will a fuel cooler hold up to 200 psi? if it will, why not use it.
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I would also try to find out how much flow they are rated for.. Restrictions in the oiling system = Boom...
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I don't think that restriction will be an issue because I am using a dry sump system, and extra pickup pump. Also, if there was a restriction of any kind, I think that the 300 HP v6 would likely not run at 300 HP under load, and lemme tell you something about the vehicles they are in, they weigh at least 12 tons plus armor, plus personell, plus gear.... need I go on.
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yea, but you are using a FUEL cooler. they never cooled oil in there intended use. and 300 hp worth of diesel fuel doesnt take much flow. now that i think of it, it very well could be too restrictive to be useful for an oil cooler.
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hmmmmmm...... good point. seen the passages on the inside didn't look too restrictive, but...... you're probably right.
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Ok, so I have a question, how do I go about welding an aaz cast aluminum head? I have been told that I need to have a rod with the same mixture of aluminum as the cast does, how do I find that out? Where can I get said rods? I know what has to be done to repair just not sure if it will work, and everyone tells me that It's a tossup 50/50 at best maybe Arb would know. I will have to heat the head to about 450F and then weld it with a special rod, then heat it back up to facilitate good heat distribution, wrap it in a blanket and let it cool in a wind free place. I have also been told that I will need to prep the head before surgery, as in taking out the precups and the valveseats and cutting the cracks to find the roots, and thats is where the weld should start. I lack the skill to do that kind of welding, and a lot of knowledge is missing as well. :'( It just kills me, I wanna know how, and I wanna do it. >:( Anyone out there can help me, I'll PM Arb.
Thanks,
Kevin
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Hi Kevin, thanks for the PM. Are you looked to weld these cracks just to see if you can ? I agree with some of the others, I would not use this on a daily drive if I didn't destroy it welding it, and it could be resurfaced. This head looks abused. Those cracks look like some might breach the coolant jacket, all between the valves looks rather deep too. The problem with a crack is if you can't repair it all the way in, it will become a stress raiser and likely return. Now we get into the problems with welding them. Yes, all aluminum welds better if you preheat it. The problem with preheating this head design, is every time you heat a part close to the austinite state (spelling - its when the crystal boundries dissolve but it is still sold. )
You can look up the specs for cast aluminum if you know the alloy - different for each flavor. Any way, at the elevated temp, the part WILL distort. When I was a machinist, we always did the heat treatment before the final machining operations otherwise it would not be to spec, the problem with this head design in this area is the head is the bearing for the cam, so if that distorts the line bore of the cam in the head, you can't easily have it line bored and use over sized bearing backings like some other engines.
Another problem with welding between the valves is they go deep and to the valve seats. You don't want that steel alloy dissolving into your molten aluminum when you are welding. Al - Fe is not useful for anything I know of. I've never tried to replace these seats as they I've never seen them bad enough where I couldn't cut them. If you can pull them, just as welding at the precup you'll have to have the bore of the seat and precut machined as the metal will flow a little into the bore. It can be done but you might make it too big for the seat / precup, but to get the weld deep enough you really need some heat, and that will certainly distort things locally. The nice thing about TIG is you don't need those special rods and you can concentrate the heat very locally and w/o the preheat.
The bad thing about those special rods and stick welding is you don't have nearly the heat control as TIG. So, I'd only go to all this trouble if it was to see if you can and to learn new skills. Still, I would not use it as a DD.
-dave
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I believe that maxfax is the one with the welded block with copious amounts of JB in it as well, although I also understand that this is a cyl. head, and not a block. I like what someone said on his post "it takes a great person to know when to cut their losses and just get a new one, but a much greater person to endeavor and repair what most would deem unrepairable..... or something to that effect" I will not be using this as a daily driver, and it will be pressure tested before all is said and done. Point taken, mig is the way to go to fix this, I'll be sure to post the results here. My trusted Machinist is doing the work, not me. This is the reason why I wanted to ask the oldest and wisest of all of us, I got this head earlier and the money was refunded, as opposed to selling it for aluminum scrap I think I'll give this a try, could be fun, and a good leaning experience. It will not be installed in a daily driver, and is "just for the hell of it" thing. Thanks ARB, and everyone else who contributed. Should I have the valve seats replaced? or can they be reused? I am replacing the valve guides, they have quite a bit of slop, where can I get those for the AAZ? I also need new freeze plugs, valve stem seals, and injector seals"unless they are universal" I am currently looking for 1.6 turbo injectors, or someone that wants to swap for some REALLY! CLEAN! AAZ injectors.
Kevin
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If I had to pay someone to do all that work that cracked engine would have been scrapped, end of story.. If you're not sinking big bucks into it, weld 'er up and see what happens.. I wouldn't worry about getting any parts for it till it's pressure tested though...
AS far as your valve seals, it may be best to just get an engine gasket set.. These typically do not come with a head gasket, but it'll have everything else, including valve seals.. No sense in buying them twice.. The Freeze plugs are just plain ole 36.5mm (?).. Available at most autoparts vendors.. I'm sure one of our vendors on here can get valve guides, I typically just them from my machinist since their doing work on the head anyhow .. Make sure to measure your valve stems.. Rare that I've seen those wear, but it could happen...
Do you still have your 1.5 injectors?? IIRC I've heard they can be rebuilt to turbo spec, but you'll need access to a pop tester... Otherwise I think I still have a set from an '84 TD jetta laying around here somewhere.. They'll be dirty, and will probably need rebuilt..
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max fax, you don't want to trade for a set of awesome aaz injectors?? ::) Good to know, I'll go ahead and order both, so that he can put them in. He will plug the return oil passage too, to recap that is weld cracks, install return oil plug, resurface, pressure test, install new valve stem seals, valve seats, and valve guides, all for about $300.00 not bad huh?
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Kevin,
I've seen a welded up block running. It was a stovebolt 6 IIRC, and it was welded up in 60's, and has been running since. It has to be done right, or its a waste of time and money. A good welder can do miracles with metal.
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Now this is where it gets complicated, I want a lower gasket set, because I have the 1.6 bottom end, and I want the upper gasket set because I have the aaz head. Where can I get the upper gasket set? Any aaz owners to chime in here? I don't plan to use this head for the build but it will kill some time till the newer one gets here, and give my machinist time to see what this thing is, before he sees the other one.
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... "This is the reason why I wanted to ask the oldest and wisest of all of us..."
Kevin
:-) Thanks Kevin, as my recently departed Dad used to tell me - "Its HELL growing old" and since I was born at the begining of the 1960's I guess I'm older than many on this forum :-( or is it :-P ? Anyway, point being since its not your DD and you are not paying big bucks to the machinist, Best of Luck and look very much forward to hearing how it went. Like I said, I have never had to replace a valve SEAT on one of these heads, so I have no advice on if you can reuse them.
-dave
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While I TOTALLY agree with wanting to try and repair the old head in terms of learning skills and what not, I just can't imagine spending $300 on a head that at best (and I'm being conservative) 50/50 chance of actually being usable at the end of the project.
If you're willing to run something that's been welded seven ways to Sunday then I really don't see how a Prothe head could be any worse - and a bare Prothe head is under $300.
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Something about "getting there is half the fun" that I find wildly appealing. Although, I agree with you, I am usually frugal, but lets face facts, I am a Marine, and as such, a little on the insane side. ;D
thanks guys,
Kevin
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Something about "getting there is half the fun" that I find wildly appealing. Although, I agree with you, I am usually frugal, but lets face facts, I am a Marine, and as such, a little on the insane side. ;D
thanks guys,
Kevin
getting there IS half the fun, but not when your project keeps pissing in your cheerios and giving you the finger every time you look at it or try to work on it.
thats why i started doing my work right the first time. i wouldnt waste my time trying to fix a junk head. buy a prothe special. pretty sure smokey eddy has one. it runs, thats for sure. those cracks that got welded are going to open back up. and at the worst possible time.
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I'm not going to use it in my turbo setup :o you must really believe I'm daft? I am going to see just how rough cold starts are on the 1.5 bottom end ;D and use it on that with standard 1.5 N/A pump and injectors basically, I'm curious to know if an aaz head will really work, or be practical on a 1.5 bottom end. I'm going in not expecting it to work and if it does..... well, then I have a good breathon N/A 1.5 with super low static compression, and probably ***ty milage, depending on how it's tuned. Any advice? Curiosity killed the cat...... and my wallet :P
thanks,
Kevin
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daft?
im a stoner with a limited vocabulary, un common words dont get along with me.
and good luck on the 1.5/9 n/a its probably gonna have around 15:1 compression or so, cause the 1.9 pre cup is almost 20 cc's, and the 1.5 pre cup is around 11 cc's. thats almost a 200% increase. might work, probably wont. it would be cool if it did tho. i just think i could spend 300 dollars more wisely then trying to fix a junk head is all. 1.9 heads are not rare. theres just not much VW diesel stuff in cali, or oregon, or washington really, but if we made a trip to canada one of these days, we would be set...
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daft?
im a stoner with a limited vocabulary, un common words dont get along with me.
and good luck on the 1.5/9 n/a its probably gonna have around 15:1 compression or so, cause the 1.9 pre cup is almost 20 cc's, and the 1.5 pre cup is around 11 cc's. thats almost a 200% increase. might work, probably wont. it would be cool if it did tho. i just think i could spend 300 dollars more wisely then trying to fix a junk head is all. 1.9 heads are not rare. theres just not much VW diesel stuff in cali, or oregon, or washington really, but if we made a trip to canada one of these days, we would be set...
Just start that baby up on ether.
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you up for the trip kev? You are a self proclaimed stoner after all ;D I'd go at the drop of a hat, but there's the whole Military thing :-\ I don't have many choices on heads here, true! I have a better one on it's way, and I am curious to try this, that's the bottom line.
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IF it's just an experiment, why not just pressure test the cracked head.. IF it holds throw it on there and see what happens....
That's what I love about the crack engine.. I burn all sorts of crazy things as fuel, not to mention the other things I've done to it... IF it blows up, oh well, I haven;t destroyed any good parts.. more or less...
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But it wouldn't look near as pretty :'( Ok, now for some pictures.
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I have some pics of those fuel coolers I talked about, as well as some of the clean components I have back from doing all of the media blasting, the block is coming soon, and will be painted next, as well as the g60 intake mani. I am having a hell of a time cutting up that audi 5000 turbo mani. :P would fuel cooling be beneficial? I am going to install a toggled pick up pump, and since it is fuel cooled, I wonder "SoCal is mostly warm all year" if it would be beneficial to cool the fuel? These were originally used for JP8 cooling, and they still have some inside ;)
1.5 N/A exhaust mani and dual D/P looks tons better cleaned and will be awesome when I grind the etra material from them and put a nice ceramic high temp paint on it. I plan to put these on the 1.5 with the aaz head if it all works out.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020781.jpg)
audi and g60 mani pre paint
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020782.jpg)
oil pan pre modification for the dry sump, I have some lines drawn on it now and am getting ready to cut it up to prep for changing the inside dimensions.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020783.jpg)
aaz valve cover pre paint
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020784.jpg)
I know, white is tacky, but I think it will look good so screw off 8)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020794.jpg)
another shot, before I put the sticker back on ;D
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020795.jpg)
Now for the fuel cooler
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020796.jpg)
plenty of options for connections
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020797.jpg)
current pressure connections
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020798.jpg)
I have two
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020799.jpg)
size comparison
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/after%20cleaning/P1020800.jpg)
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I got the new head today, It has cracks in the precups, so now I can add precups o the list of things I need as well as two cam keys, one cam/bolt and another aaz valve cover. I will also need, all of the necessary parts for a full aaz head rebuild valves, seals, guides, precups, valve seats "my machinist broke one" pictures to come very soon ;D
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I wouldn't say white is tacky at all, but in a diesel, it might not be white for long ;D
You my friend have a touch of insanity that has made this thread a lot of fun to read.
I can't wait to see where you go with this.
now that mine is finally running I have to live vicariously through you guys.
Cheers,
Ryan
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where do I get gaskets to rebuild MY HEAD!!!??? ??? :'( I need everything cept the cam, cambolt and washer, valve cover and gasket, cam, and valves. I need the sensor, gaskets, guides, valve seats, freeze plugs, everything. I also need to figure out what the hole in the cam cover is for and what the heck I'm spoze to do with it???
thanks guys,
Kevin
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Ok, just like promised, the pictures:
MMMmmm DIRTY! just the way I like em 8) ::)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020801.jpg)
pre worn in, a useful feature ;)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020802.jpg)
precup condition, some of these, are in rough shape/AKA cracked, but fortunately for me just the precup itself is cracked.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020803.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020804.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020805.jpg)
center stage we have an authentic aaz cylinder head from CANADA *crowd goes wild*
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020806.jpg)
no1
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020807.jpg)
no2
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020808.jpg)
no3
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020809.jpg)
no4
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020810.jpg)
the clean.... er side
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020811.jpg)
cam side up
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020812.jpg)
ceramic, high temp/2000f painted g60 intake
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020813.jpg)
audi 5000 mani, I'm trying to modify it PITA *grumble*
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020814.jpg)
partly through still a loooong waaay to go..... any suggestions?
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/P1020815.jpg)
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You, my friend, have a touch of insanity that has made this thread a lot of fun to read.
I can't wait to see where you go with this.
Cheers,
Ryan
I certainly try, don't I?
I plan...... to go......... TO THE MOON, no, seriously now.
I feel the need............ the need....... for speed 8) I do understand that it will not be a 1000 H/P engine or anything but Brake H/P wise it will be in a league all it's own. ;) I mean, what, the Mk1's weigh about like 1100lbs soaking wet with a full tank and a fat chick in the back? ::)
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I think its more like 1600 LBS, but still a good HP/LB combo...
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hole in the cam cover is for the oil vapour breather apparatus - theres a kind of cyclic separator doodat on there as stock that connects to the inlet air hose on one side and the crankcase breather on the other. I guess you would do with that... whatever you like. it needs to vent to somewhere though... Mann & Hummel make a nice bit of kit called a Provent that separates out the oil very nicely... or you could stick a basic filter on it or something...
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Got the block blasted now, as well as the new aaz head pics:
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020816.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020817.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020818.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020819.jpg)
still has some of the media in it, but that will go back to the solvent tank as soon as it's painted.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020820.jpg)
you can't see it from the pics but I didn't get every last bit of it like I wanted to but a wire brush and elbow grease helped the effort.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020821.jpg)
mock up, too bad it can't always look this good :'(
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020822.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020823.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020824.jpg)
i'll run the super fine pad over all of the surfaces tomorrow, and there is still some carbon buildup in the runners, but the valve seals are clean as ***
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020825.jpg)
I only wish I had a sponsor to make this go waaaay faster, I can get it done but just don't have the straight up cash ::) Had the deck machined, and the whole thing hot tanked so now it can accept a good ceramic paint. I'll measure the bolt holes as promised and get back to y'all.
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Are you gonna paint the block white too??? ;D
BTW, found the 1.6 TD injectors.. Still sticking in a head.. I hit them with some smootchum to get em loose.. IF you still need them let me know...
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Yes, I do plan to paint it white. If you wonder why, then I will tell you. The other day I mused at all of the huge v6diesels, and wondered to myself why do they come back in the crates all painted white. I figured it out, it is designed for stupid people like me, who wonder where a leak comes from. ::) Yes sir, I most certainly would like to take those off of your hands for you. anyone know where I can get a hold of the shims from? I still need to get the nozzles, too. 8) Turns out I am missing quite a bit from making this a complete engine, but I need to get a lockdown on the gearbox I will be using, what kind? I also need a flywheel.... so I can lighten it, and....... p l a y ;D
thanks,
Kevin
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also someone ha suggested a bigger oil pump, I will need to know where I can get one of those. I can get the pickup pump at my local autozone *YAY* ;D
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also someone ha suggested a bigger oil pump, I will need to know where I can get one of those. I can get the pickup pump at my local autozone *YAY* ;D
you are looking for an oil pump from an aaz or hydraulic 1.6 engine. 36mm gears. but i thought you were using dry sump? that doesnt use a VW oil pump, it uses an external crank driven pump.
also, just use a gasser flywheel and a 16v pressure plate. the gasser flywheel is already way light enough for a diesel. just be sure to scribe a TDC mark in it. gassers dont have TDC marks, just 6* marks.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Check again. If its a 200mm or 190mm flywheel, it has a zero mark regaurdless.
190mm and 200mm flywheels do not have a 6* mark, just a 0 mark.
All 210 gas have both, diamond is the 6* and the zero mark is to the left of the center bolt hole. Its just a dot.
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Now I need school on the flywheels ??? you gotta remember here folks, I am building my first engine and am new to this. I have no clue what you are all talking about right now. I plan on using an electronic pump, as well as a modified pump from the intermediate shaft. ;D
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More pics, I am beginning to think that no one actually reads or has read all of the way through my posts. :-\ Oh well, I have a 78 gasser bunny bunny that I am going to convert to diesel, has a straight pipe 2.5" exhaust and weitec coilover suspension, lowered with reckless abandon. ;) Anywhoo, I have read here somewhere that I can use the old tank with no conversions, is that a correct assumption? The guy gave it to me because the 1.8 in it was shot. Did some research the 1.8 wasn't the stock engine for this car and *surprise* auto tranny with a super loooong third gear. Just finished pulling the head "after it cooled down of course ::)" and much to my dismay, the valves were bent to holy hell, the head was waaay out of spec, and the timing was rediculously retarded with an HEI blaster ignition, called the guy, and he said he got the car from another guy who told him 91 octane or better or she won't run. "no wonder" I gotta tell you though this thing, for bent valves really hauled..... FAST! the speedo is shot and when I go 5mph it shows 20. I was coming back from china lake with it and my buddy was driving my car "for safety" and had it topped out at 140 I totally blew past him pegged at 100 "don't really know how fast I was going" and DAMN was it cold still got crazy good gas milage too, unless the fuel meter is shot too. I am in the process of stripping her bare, and adding chassis support. Need mk1 parts anyone? ;) now for the pics all stripped out bunny:
wiring harness was a disaster, when asked, he said "I got it like that ::)"
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/78%20rabbit%20project/DSC00082.jpg)
damned busted speedo
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/78%20rabbit%20project/DSC00083.jpg)
catless dirty craziness :o
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/78%20rabbit%20project/DSC00080.jpg)
old skool euro style front end ooh baby es muy bene!
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/78%20rabbit%20project/DSC00081.jpg)
this rabbits luck ran out a while ago
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/78%20rabbit%20project/DSC00085.jpg)
more body images, body is staight cept for some lowriding damage and incorrect jacking dents "I love sledge hammers :D"
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/78%20rabbit%20project/P1020787.jpg)
Started to strip out the interior, and got pretty far. anyone need stuff? I am stripping her Bare and reinforcing the frame.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/78%20rabbit%20project/P1020793.jpg)
bumperless
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/78%20rabbit%20project/P1020788.jpg)
don't judge me, my garage is filthy looking........ so go look at yours :P
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/78%20rabbit%20project/P1020792.jpg)
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The fuel tank will work fine, you just need to remove the restriction at the filler neck so the diesel pump nozzle will fit.
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is there a post or a how to with pictures? come on I'm a Marine ??? we get paid for following directions ;)
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so to add to the already long laundry list of parts needed I will need a cluster from a diesel, or make my own guages, pulled the dash and will re-glass it with no A/C, I don't know if I will let the heater go though "extra cooling you see". Any suggestions? anyone need a gasser engine? I have the 1.8 that's in it and an gti engine both complete, as well as an as yet unknown modified auto tranny.
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GREAT NEWS! just checked on an experiment that I left overnight and I now know how to remove carbon deposits easily from valves and non-aluminum surfaces. The answer is CLR "Calcium Lime Rust" buy it at the grocery store and just soak it overnight in a glass or another appropriate container and BAM! "always wanted to say that" the carbon falls right off. also used it on the turbine shaft and exhaust turbine of a turbo I'm rebuilding and similar results were achieved, no more oxidation crap. ;D
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*too tired to sleep* yet another sleepless night :'( I need to start looking for the transmission to drive this beast. I have heard a modified 02a is in order, and wanted to ask if money is not an object, then no joke what is the best tranny to bolt on? cuz..... you know, I'll do it 8)
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Got the block blasted now, as well as the new aaz head pics:
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020822.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020823.jpg)
Did you blast the cam journals too? They don't look so good. They need to be smooth as glass or the oil film will not keep the steel off the aluminum.
On your block, since its so clean, I'd powder coat it :-) The head too after you replaced it or found the repairs to be good :-)
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planned on getting it ceramic coated. I did not bead blast the cam journals, they area bit dusty, I stayed away from friction areas "I know better" the journals, less the bearings, have some sort of cross hatching, looks like some sort of machining. And the bearing look immaculate, after painting/powdercoating I plan to run it throught the solvent tank again to get the dust off of everything before reassembly. I don't know if I need new pins in the pistons, should I just do it anyway? I remember your experience arb, all of the stuff you didn't relace ended up going to crap ;) *vicariously*
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The cam journals do not have the cross hatching, the mains do, just for clarification. This head is from a later/newer aaz There is a subtle difference, and I can't tell you how I know, but they are different.
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The cam journals do not have the cross hatching, the mains do, just for clarification. This head is from a later/newer aaz There is a subtle difference, and I can't tell you how I know, but they are different.
You're right - the cross hatch where the main bearings go is from the line bore of these journals when the block it made, or if its blue printed later, by you'll need special bearings then.
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oversize then? can I get them or are they illusive like 1.5 oversize pistons
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Now I need school on the flywheels ??? you gotta remember here folks, I am building my first engine and am new to this. I have no clue what you are all talking about right now. I plan on using an electronic pump, as well as a modified pump from the intermediate shaft. ;D
so then its not going to be a true dry sump system. dry sump systems suck oil out of the pan from a hose, not from the stock oil pump.
and josh, i was just refering to 210mm flywheels. i dont think 190s and 200s are even worth using on these things. i know i was slippin my 200mm clutch quite a while ago. but the 210 doesnt slip. unless i want it to.
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so, 210 is the way to go, now I need a list of vw gassers I can steal this from There are a bunch in the boneyard up the hill. Just no diesels :'( I got my second aaz valve cover from Gee Bee today, as well as some curious looking silicone gaskets, almost looks like exhaust mani gaskets. Thanks gee bee. No, I suppose you are correct, it will not be a true dry sump system, at least not because I will still want some use from my intermediate shaft other than to run my vac pump.
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oversize then? can I get them or are they illusive like 1.5 oversize pistons
The usual over-sized bearing usually refers to the crank journal being machined and they are readily available. The over-size I was talking about was the bearing backing and I've only seen them when I worked in Federal Mogul's research park making experimental bearings. I also have never seen anyone line bore the block journals on one of these engines.
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how would I know if they are? *scared*
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I am going to bet that they are not.
most people scrap the block before they line bore the mains.
as for the dry sump, it does not matter so much what kind of pump is used(electric, belt driven, gear driven) or if the pickup is inside or outside the pan. the main thing is that oil is not stored in the pan, but is sucked back out and put into a separate container before being pumped through the motor.
generally this is done with a low pressure pump to go from the pan to the reservoir, and a high pressure pump to go from reservoir to the motor.
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I am going to bet that they are not.
most people scrap the block before they line bore the mains.
as for the dry sump, it does not matter so much what kind of pump is used(electric, belt driven, gear driven) or if the pickup is inside or outside the pan. the main thing is that oil is not stored in the pan, but is sucked back out and put into a separate container before being pumped through the motor.
generally this is done with a low pressure pump to go from the pan to the reservoir, and a high pressure pump to go from reservoir to the motor.
what is the advantage of this?
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not having the oil sloshing around in the bottom of the pan.
the dry sump reservoir can be designed so during hard cornering the pickup for the high pressure pump never gets starved of oil, so no oil pressure loss common in hard cornering with a wet sump.
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I was going to modify the pickup arm in the pump so that there is just a screen "no pickup arm" and make a very shallow pan. the oil lines would go to the res. then the pump would be gravity driven at the bottom of the res to send back to the engine "oil goes in the top then comes out the bottom" But not before it gets cooled. the turbo will complicate things just a little, but I think that I'm ready for that. using the turbo pan I'll bend an angle just above where the oil outlet neck comes out then cut the rest of the pan as short as possible. so it will be angled kinda like the vanagon pan but steeper and much more shallow. If I were an artist, I would mock it up for everyone to see and you could really understand what I'm talking about, my minds eye is a great tool but it's difficult to convey what I can see to others "usually complicates things and makes people think I'm crackers" ::)
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oh, almost forgot, the 78' build will allow totally high speed cornering with the super rediculously low weitec's and the poly bushings all over. I know nothing of mk1 brake upgrades though not really important is it? :o ;)
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someone should seriously just give me a call and come out to see one of these weekends *illudes to something* "give me a hand maybe?" some advice?
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poly bushings in a diesel!!!!!!!!!! you are going to love that. It is going to rattle the fillings out of your teeth :o
The stock brakes are pretty small, and the rotors are not vented. I went up to the 16v scirocco brakes up front which are a larger diameter 10.1" and vented. Corrados had 11" brakes.
I upgraded my rear drums to discs too, but that was a PITA and I don't know if it was worth it. If you go up to bigger brakes, you will need to switch to the larger 22mm master cylinder found on MKII's and III's. If you put in rear discs you will also need new proportioning valves. I went ahead and bent all new lines and swapped out stainless hoses for the rubber and switched to ATE super blue fluid. VW uses a metric bubble flare, which is kinda uncommon, so you will not be able to pick up the fittings or the flare tool at Napa. It was a costly venture and like I said it was not smooth sailing, but she stops on $.08 now. (that's $.02 short of a dime ;))
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Not the engine mounts, just poly bushings on the suspension, I didn't put it there, just ended up like that. I'll toggle the in tank pump for oick up fueling, and for reinstalling the I/P. I thank you sir, fro the brake advice, I have already had a lovely experience with the brake lines on this car as they were completely eaten through in some places.
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It is either the 78 bunny or an 01 MR2 Spyder :o, both will take a lot of work. ::)
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I'll look in Napa in the am as I'll be there. Up here in Canada we have a tonne of metric tools
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I have a question about the cam, will it/they need grinding? I cleaned all of the rust off, and am curious to know will it effect performance at all. My build is geared torward performance, but in a way also longevity. I want to do some car shows, and traveling, so I would love to know how the whole injection system works IN DEPTH, in other words how braking pressure, injection timing, nozzles, etc co-interact with one another to affect either performance, or fuel economy, I have to find my way. I would rather have a nasty idle "like an old hot rod" but have the performance there for regular driving/spirited driving "probably more often than I would car to admit"
Kevin
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when you get a cam for your diesel, that makes it lope like a built big block, you let me know.
because im pretty sure its fairly impossible to make a diesel idle like anything else, besides well, a diesel...
if it lopes like a big block, it doesnt run right. every diesel ive ever seen, both hot rod and stock, have nice smooth idles.
the 16V92 Jimmy at AF Dicks shop in his land speed record F350, it even idles fairly smooth for a jimmy.
i should take some pics of that thing for you guys. 4 sets of compounds, (FOUR SETS!!, thats 8 friggen turbos) and 4 blowers.
heres a link to some pics, but there really old. but you get the idea.
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-4/1292-2006.html (http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bville-cars-4/1292-2006.html)
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I was using a simile to explain what I am looking for. To show what I want to do, while I understand that it isn't possible to make it lope like a big block, what I am willing to sacrifice for response and power.
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Lumpy idle on gassers is because the fuel/air charge isn't in the right place at the right time more or less. You don't have the intake runner velocity at idle to keep the fuel in suspension all the way in to the chamber through compression. If you think about a massive big block with a tunnel ram or something, at idle how much air/fuel mixture is it really pulling from that intake volume?
Big lumpy cam with lots of overlap doesn't help either since again there's so little velocity at idle you have a hard time getting any kind of swirl or tumble going on. Remember on a gasser at idle the throttle is almost completely blocked off so there's no air rushing in behind what you're sucking in on the intake stroke either... Overlap doesn't work too well when the pressure in the exhaust is higher than the pressure in the intake! Anyhow the result is by the time the fuel has left the carb, hung out in a huge intake and then barely been sucked in to the engine it's half separated from the air and doesn't burn all that well. Hence why you end up having to run a crazy rich idle on a big block with a massive cam, massive intake, massive carb, etc just to keep enough burnable fuel in the cylinders.
Since diesels don't add the fuel till they burn it you don't have any of those problems. It burns when it's injected, and the injection amount and timing is dead consistent.
Result is diesels have a nice smooth idle no matter how much you hop them up. A motor ported out to flow like crazy with a monster turbo pushing insane pressure will make gobs of power, but still idle nice and smooth.
Not that it has any impact on idle, but you can't really run any overlap on a VW diesel. When the piston is at the top of the exhaust stroke it's almost touching the head - no room to have any overlap between exhaust and intake without putting the valves through the piston!
It MIGHT be possible to get a bit more lift than the stock cam has, but I have no idea if it would really help or not. More duration is pretty much out of the question, as are larger valves. Best thing you can do is improve the flow on the head, give yourself a good free flowing exhaust system and a good intercooler - get the exhaust out and as much fresh air in as possible.
The great thing about all of the stuff you CAN do though is that your engine will still have great street manners!
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This is great :D, I do not understand some of the terminology ???, I need pictures. I'm a big dumb Marine remember? I could probably understand it if someone could break the whole thing down to me Barney style "Big Dumb Marine terminology" I never was too good at textbook explanations. Not to say that your explanations were inadequate, it just isn't how I am able to easily understand it..... does that make sense? :-\ I have yet to understand or find an explanation that answers all of my questions, or breaks down the terminology so that it doesn't look like another language. I learned to speak Japanese in just one years time, I am sure I can understand this, just in a different way. I do understand some of the fundamentals, but now I want the meat. There are probably plenty of people who can mechanically build an engine from the bolts up but don't understand the fundamental principles of how it works. I want to understand all of it, math, mechanics, the injection process, air fuel mixture, and how they all interact with one another to properly tune the engine. No offense but any idiot can put an engine together, get the timing close, and make it work "gotta love those German engineers, they make it so easy" but it takes a real man to dominate over Machine and bend it to his will in the way that the engineers truly envisioned, or didn't... if thats right? I watch the hardest working guys of my entire life, slave over swapping engines in LAV's, and doing fundamental repairs, but cannot answer some very fundamental questions, such as, what kind of turbo is on it, what kind of supercharger is on it, how many pistons, where are the injectors, the static compression etc. These guys can, however, make it run on human piss and get it going in a pinch "with their commanding officer on their backsides"
thanks,
Kevin
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Lumpy idle on gassers is because the fuel/air charge isn't in the right place at the right time more or less. You don't have the intake runner velocity at idle to keep the fuel in suspension all the way in to the chamber through compression. If you think about a massive big block with a tunnel ram or something, at idle how much air/fuel mixture is it really pulling from that intake volume?
Big lumpy cam with lots of overlap doesn't help either since again there's so little velocity at idle you have a hard time getting any kind of swirl or tumble going on. Remember on a gasser at idle the throttle is almost completely blocked off so there's no air rushing in behind what you're sucking in on the intake stroke either... Overlap doesn't work too well when the pressure in the exhaust is higher than the pressure in the intake! Anyhow the result is by the time the fuel has left the carb, hung out in a huge intake and then barely been sucked in to the engine it's half separated from the air and doesn't burn all that well. Hence why you end up having to run a crazy rich idle on a big block with a massive cam, massive intake, massive carb, etc just to keep enough burnable fuel in the cylinders.
Since diesels don't add the fuel till they burn it you don't have any of those problems. It burns when it's injected, and the injection amount and timing is dead consistent.
Result is diesels have a nice smooth idle no matter how much you hop them up. A motor ported out to flow like crazy with a monster turbo pushing insane pressure will make gobs of power, but still idle nice and smooth.
Not that it has any impact on idle, but you can't really run any overlap on a VW diesel. When the piston is at the top of the exhaust stroke it's almost touching the head - no room to have any overlap between exhaust and intake without putting the valves through the piston!
It MIGHT be possible to get a bit more lift than the stock cam has, but I have no idea if it would really help or not. More duration is pretty much out of the question, as are larger valves. Best thing you can do is improve the flow on the head, give yourself a good free flowing exhaust system and a good intercooler - get the exhaust out and as much fresh air in as possible.
The great thing about all of the stuff you CAN do though is that your engine will still have great street manners!
Sorry, got this as soon as I posted. I understand all of this, but the question remains, injection pressure, spray pattern, swirl chamber, the engineering has all taken place, but at this point I have to throw the original advice out of the window. I have low static compression, larger precombustion chambers, and really everything is out of the spec of what the original engineers had in mind. I don't mean to go all of the way back to the drawing board, but it begs to differ, all of the precursors for major performance enhancements are there, just how to make it all work TOP NOTCH. For example, I was told that the rpm limitation was realistically set by the limits of the injection pump, how to change that? Also, no one wants to use dual pop injectors only because they are difficult? there must be some kind advantage or the German engineers would never have moved to dual injectors and if there is how can we manipulate this advantage if we are scared of forward progress? Can I have a variable timing somehow where I can have retarded timing during idle, and slowly improve timing "non-electronically" as the rpm's go up? How does the dynamic timing advance affect all of this. The governor on the I/P there must be something else to it, or there wouldn't be so much confusion surrounding it, is this essentially what Giles does when he uses his expensive machines to calibrate and enhance the pumps *tootsie pop* "the world may never know". I can keep em comin all day, like Sylar, in Heroes, I just gotta know, and my thirst for knowledge is truly unquenchable, ask anyone that knows me. You guys are a big hlp, I came here for answers, and I'm getting them, I don't want anyone to feel trodden on here, and I don't wat to just USE the forums, I want to contribute, but as it currently stands, I can't help many with the limited knowledge that I have, and For that, I truly apologize. I also apologize for any foul language or offensive behavior, that I may exhibit, while here on the forums, I am a Dirty Mouthed Sailor after all, OH, and if I offend anyone please tell me, I tend to forget where I am sometimes, I am truly a gentleman in disguise, and bear no bad ilk to anyone of different race, color, creed, or sex, etc. If you get the feeling otherwise, just contact me or tell me, and I'll set your fears at ease.
thanks, and God bless,
Kevin
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When I checked the valve thickness to confirm the part no. the thickness was 6.89 ish, is that too thin? will it cause valve slop? the other newer head is after 96' and has the 7.95 ish according to the mic. is that acceptable?
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old heads have bigger valve stem diameter (8mm). newer heads have smaller 7mm valve stem size.
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I know that, but I wanted to check to make sure that I needed both stems for both heads "I'm rebuilding both" one old and one new I'll post up in a while my findings from Napa on aaz component prices, the total for both heads is 900 bones dude! :o
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Ok, this will be a double post, that is, it will be located in two places here and in the aaz parts thread. I went to my local Napa, and confirmed that they do, in fact, carry the Altrom parts inventory. I priced up "for US sales" all of the components that would be needed for a complete head rebuild. I will list the universal parts first then the older aaz head parts and then the newer aaz parts. The idea is to crate a a database or cross reference for aaz owners/builders so that cheaper prices can be rounded up and options weighed. I hope that this helps someone out there, namely me, if there is a cheaper route besides our mutual friend, Prothe then I'm all ears. Total for the two heads would be 900 bones! :o That includes everything but the valves, and the valve seats, springs, and retainers, as well as the keepers. All of these are priced each unless otherwise indicated. I ordered quantities appropriate for a rebuild, except for the precups, because I only needed four of them, plus freight, which was 28.99 for everything, came out to 900.78. That is more expensive than buying one of the heads listed on another website, so I'm sure that there is another location that the parts can be gotten from, just don't know where. Realistically, however, it is more expensive because I am buying for two heads, so $450.00, plus the $300.00 roughly that I spent on each, will put me right at what the other retailers want for their heads. Call me a cheapo all you want, but my search is not over. If you must have it, however, here is all of the reference data you will need. need more p/n's? go to the Altrom website and look it up, then go to a Napa store, or call, my guy was nice enough to print me out a nice sheet.
028109243E
Tensioner $54.31
12/94-1998
068109243F
Tensioner $24.95
1993-12/94
034109309
Lifter $12.74
1993-05/96; 8 Valve
050109309H
Lifter $18.74
5/96-1998; 8 Valve
028103391M
Pre Chamber $18.09
Deflector
028109127J
Timing Cover $99.07
Lower
056103419A
Valve Guide $2.85
1993-1/96; 8mm
037103419B
Valve Guide $5.26
1/96-1998; 7mm
028198012B
Head Gskt Set $53.93
1993-1/96; w/o Head gsk.
028198012E
Head Gskt Set $79.02
1/96-1998; w/o head gsk.
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okay, so I got some more info on the tranny gearing, and armed with the new knowledge I now know that I need to run an 02A with an 02J 5th gear. I will be making gobs of power, and will use a lighened 210mm "as rabbitonroids suggested" flywheel, still not sure on the clutch, if I will be making around 300 horse, and god knows how much torque, what kind of a clutch will I need?
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210mm clutch and flywheel on an 02j trans? yea... GOOD LUCK.
they are so much different, its never going to work. 020 flywheels and clutches are made to run in a 020 trans.
and the limits of the 1.6 is about 200 horsepower, while the limits of the AAZ are around 250, maybe 275. (im just going by what all the hottest engines are on the forum) people claim 300 horse, but i have yet to see pictures or dyno runs. if anyone was running that much power, it would be Aki-76. he has the pics of the build that LOOKS VERY CAPABLE of building OVER 300 horsepower. but his build has basically no stock VW parts. talk to aki, he will tell you how hard its gonna be to make 300 horses. hes a smart cookie, thats for sure.
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aki it is then. I was always told, if you have a goal, set it high. If I don't reach 300, that is fine too.
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Injector repair kits cost like close to nothing, and since I must wait for more fundage "I simply refuse to steal food from my daughters mouth to feed my hobby..... my wife, probably, but not my daughter ;)" I will do a repair on the I/P that I have. Which pump rebuild kit do I need, or which parts do I need? I have been told that I have a late style 1.6 td pump, the shaft has play and the thing def. needs a rebuild. I can get no.s if needed, in fact, I'll post them as soon as I can. I will be doing some pump mods, and adding the pug pin at the same time. I do actively pursue the search option, despite popular belief, I could find a needle in a haystack with google, but for some reason, I suck at using the search feature on this forum at finding anything useful. :-[
thanks,
Kevin
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I was also playing with my vac pump and was wondering has anyone ever rebuilt one of these? I have a broken plastic thingie on mine that vexes me so. Don't even know what it is ??? I ran into a friend with a gasser 16v and a HUGE Bentley, and he suggested using a different intermediate shaft and oil pump from a gasser 16v, is this possible, or has anyone tried it? I will try to take a trip to the boneyard to find out.
thanks,
Kevin
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just so everyone knows, autohaus is having a reman injector sale, the core charge is 11 buckroos so I can get a full set of reman 1.5's for 100 bones pretty cheap ;D
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have yet another question, I have never heard of anyone getting their crank knife edged, is that because it is a bad idea? I was honestly thinking about it, not too expensive, and would allow for an easier start "cold starts are already going to be hard. Less rotating mass is better no matter what aspiration you are running right?
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Try and get a few of them in here...
The double spring injectors are all about reducing noise and improving the burn (less smoke), but not really in a performance way. They do a pre-injection before the main injection to get the fire started so to speak - this reduces the knock when the main injection happens since it's not such a shock. Good for emissions, good for reducing noise, but extremely difficult to calibrate without pro level tools and difficult to find nozzles for. So yes, the Germans had some good reasons to go that way, but nothing that's really relevant to what you want to do.
How the larger prechamber volume will react and how to best make use of it is anyone's guess. At the very least I'd say it gives you an opportunity for more fuel since there's more room for air in there, but without getting the engine running it's hard to know. You might find the AAZ injectors are better matched to the AAZ prechambers, or you might find it makes no difference - it's honestly fairly uncharted territory. From what I've read on here the 1.6 nozzles are capable of flowing as much fuel is you could possibly use without issue so there's not really a lot of gains to be had there. Now, where the 1.9 injectors MIGHT be relevant to you is actually their starting abilities - the preinjection MIGHT help start with your low compression, but until you have the motor together and actually see what happens, well... who knows?
The VE pump definitely has its limits - Giles can make pumps that are happy to above 6K RPM but what he does is top secret. He's got access to the complete world of Bosch parts from just about any engine you can imagine, plus a test bench and a ton of training, so he can mix and match pump parts to get what he wants. We all don't even know enough about what we want given the massive number of variables (cam plate shape, cam plate lift, plunger size, etc etc)... Giles does machining to the pump body to allow it to have more dynamic advance, he tunes the actual dynamic advance curve, he creates a governor that doesn't limit fuel, I'm fairly certain he's changing the camplate (who knows what to though) and any number of other things. When you actually look at what all he's doing his price is extremely fair - even if we knew exactly what parts he was putting in doing all the machine work and tuning is worth it big time. If there's any single thing you spend money on with your build it should be the pump. And yes, Giles can pretty much do up the dynamic timing however you want, including having retarded idle timing and crazy advanced higher RPM timing. There's basically no way to do this on your own - you really need a full test bench. And understand that when you order a superpump from Giles you're also buying a consultation with him and his advice tuning your engine after you've bought the pump, not just some replacement part made for an anonymous customer by an anonymous factory worker somewhere.
I think the 5K limit for the VE pump really comes from the versions for engines with 6 or more cylinders, with 4 bangers we can get a bit more RPM out of them before they start to float. Seems quite a few people have done nothing but the governor mod and gotten 5500 RPM without too much trouble. At that point though I think you're out of dynamic advance on the pumps the way they come - back to needing Giles again.
So yeah, lots of words but what it comes down to is:
- Bite the bullet and get Giles to do your pump. The $$ per HP gain is probably better with him than anything else you can do
- Get the coldest air you can in to your engine
- pull cold air in to your turbo,
- find the best intercooler you can
- Get as much air as possible in
- Make sure your intake is unrestricted
- Port your head, even just gasket matching will help
- Stock intake is crap, there's nothing aftermarket available, this is a good place to spend some efforts making something yourself
- Get the exhaust out
- Don't run your boost TOO high or you're just putting too much restriction on your exhaust and pumping in air that is too hot
- Get the best downpipe and exhaust you can afford
After all that you're in the upper ranges of what you'll ever get out of these engines before you blow the head off the top.
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woo hoo! found the I/M shaft post/thread:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=13253.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=13253.0)
lots of good info here.
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VERY VERY good advice, I am poor :-[ and would love to give Giles my hard earned dough 8) but, I have done everything thus far on somewhat of a budget. I plan to do all that I can to the pump as it now stands, then, sometime in the future, send it by way of the Jedi Master Giles. I understand about the turbo, and about EGT's, I will be using a vnt 17/22 combo, the latter of which is proving difficult to find and VERY expensive. I already have a straight, 2.5" exhaust, and will make a custom downpipe, and have taken a serious approach to constructing a turbo header from nickel plate. As for the intake........... wellll lets just say it's still a work in progress. I lack the tools to do what I want with it. Need a band saw to cut the runner just right, and also need to port the runners to match the D shaped port on the head, or I'll have a very nice long runner intake that someone can use for a non-aaz project. I currently also have a G-60 intake that I was looking at using, but since I went the way of the aaz head I no longer need it, and will prolly use it on the 1.5 and make a custom CAI. As for the intercooler, I'm still on the hunt, as well as all of the other components to make this thing work. As seen above, there is an I/M shaft service available, so I plan to use it, as well as having the crank blueprinted and knifedged. I am still going forward with the dry sump system, and have a very good idea on how to do it. I'll post pics soon. I plan to shorten the pickup tube and make it so that it doesn't reach so deep, so that I can cut a good amount from the pan. Then I'll make a reservoir, and setup a box for it's location. There are a couple of reasons to doing this. I have a weitec coilover system, and have the car lowered ridiculously low and if I hit a bump it will not be pretty, also for spirited driving at no doubt high speed I would not wish for the misfortune of oil starvation. For the other reason, in a word, COOLING, I will be running copious amounts of boost, with an engine setup doing things it was not designed to do, I want to keep it as cool as possible. WHAT! "that's bad for cold starts" you say? au contrair, I will be using a specially designed system to not only heat the waterblock, but also heat the oil in a very non conventional way. I will be using three 600W heaters to heat the waterblock, and heat the oil by means of a built in compartment in the oil reservoir. HA! TAKE THAT! ;D But seriously, thank you for setting me straight on the aaz injectors and providing me with invaluable information.
thanks,
Kevin
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just found Castillo's crankshaft service in L.A., I'll call them tomorrow, but I think they may be able to do the crank and the I/M shaft. That would be awesome, if they could. :o A lot of tuners use their service, and apparently they are really good at what they do.
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I was also playing with my vac pump and was wondering has anyone ever rebuilt one of these? I have a broken plastic thingie on mine that vexes me so. Don't even know what it is ??? I ran into a friend with a gasser 16v and a HUGE Bentley, and he suggested using a different intermediate shaft and oil pump from a gasser 16v, is this possible, or has anyone tried it? I will try to take a trip to the boneyard to find out.
thanks,
Kevin
its never gonna work. a gasser IM shaft is spun from the inside (toothed side) of the belt. the diesel im shaft is spun from the back side (flat side) of the belt. the diesel im shaft spins CCW, while a gasser spins CW. no dice...
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called him today, this morning, in fact, and it will be 250 for the knife edging, and 110 for balancing. I want to take it down there in person, and see the operation, these guys are supposedly legendary at this stuff. 360.00 too steep for that? it will be a seperate charge altogether for the I/M shaft, and he says it will be the first one that he has done, since no one has ever asked for this service before.
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i need to get a pd150 intake from somewhere, finally got fed up with messing with the mod on the audo 5000 turbo mani, and the shape of the ports is going to be an issue. :-[
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Just totaled my car, the Suzuki, in a head on collision. I will prolly have to put the project on hold, considering that everything is in the car right now, and it was towed to Victorville. block, crank, head, everything. I was working on it this weekend and said "what the hey! leave it in the car, gets heavy to haul in and out" Now, I'm a bit perterbed >:( "take that MOD! no profanity! :P"
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Well, hope it works out for you!!! I had a couple Dodge 318 heads end up in the trunk of a scrap car that then ended up in a tow yard, never to be seen again once.
All I gotta say about all that machine work is your hard earned $$$ would be way better spent with Giles on your pump... By my count between your junk head and the crank machining you're talking about now you're at least 2/3 of the way to a superpump.
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Well, that may be so, but considering both the pump and the crank were in the car, I am royally "REMOVED BY MOD" that was actually me :P. Everything was in that car, I had better get it back, everything in the car is worth more than the stinking car was. How to get it back? and I mean everything. :'( >:(
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Well, hope it works out for you!!! I had a couple Dodge 318 heads end up in the trunk of a scrap car that then ended up in a tow yard, never to be seen again once.
All I gotta say about all that machine work is your hard earned $$$ would be way better spent with Giles on your pump... By my count between your junk head and the crank machining you're talking about now you're at least 2/3 of the way to a superpump.
thats what i been saying too, spend your money on the important stuff.
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As I have said repeatedly now, I plan to do the pump, and send it to Jedi Master Giles. I need to wait to have the engine running for a while as a proof-of-concept for the wife, then she will approve the fundage for the giles pump. As it currently stands, the pump mod, will be the single most expensive component to the system, even the modded vnt will be cheaper because I know a guy. Bit by bit this thing is shaping up. Keep calling USAA and keep getting a voicemail URRRGHHT! *cusses to make a sailor cry* >:(
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old heads have bigger valve stem diameter (8mm). newer heads have smaller 7mm valve stem size.
I bought a new AAZ head and it had 8mm valve stems.
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How much did you $$ if you don't mind me asking - ball park only?
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That cannot be right, Judging from the parts that I have listed, the older is 7mm and the newer is 8mm did you read that or no? I have found out some GREAT NEWS! I called the adjuster today and explained the situation with my car, and he said to call the auction yard where the car is to be taken late Thursday. The lady that answered at the auction yard was very nice, she said that it was expected in at about 1630 on the fourth, and if I needed to come and get some things from the car, that I would need to do so soon after that, and it was entirely possible, because they are my possessions, and if I wanted them, they have no legal right to keep them. She proceeded to tell me about stories where the workers there have gotten all sorts of thing illegally from the cars before auction, and if they were caught, or if something is missing I can take legal action against them. I need to sell my cars, the 54' plymouth, the 1.5 engine and the gasser engines that I have, anyone interested can look in the for sale section. I would really like to find a buyer for this stuff, cuz I need the cash to keep up my habit *sckratches repeatedly*
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I just had a thought, are there any gasser engines that share the same bore as our engines? and out of those, are there any that could share the crank? and piston squirters? The reason I ask is that you could deck the block to make up for the stroke, and rod length. and the other reason that I ask is that it could mean cheap, and readily available blocks for all of us with a more precisely controlled piston protrusion, meaning that everyone could run a metal H/G on a modified gasser block, or have a replacement block for cheap, with just a very little Machining modification. 8) I am sure that someone has thought of this, but being faced with the alternative, of having to find everything all over again this just dawned on me. Maybe Mr. Kraut would know, or one of the older, more knowledgeable members would know, who knows this could even start a new business for someone on the forum here.
thanks,
Kevin
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How much did you $$ if you don't mind me asking - ball park only?
A Gentleman would never tell. ;)
No, seriously, the block was 200.00 plus a trip to Sacremento "beautiful, and the fun day at the CHP Academy was WICKED!" The heads were around 300 give or take one was a little over one was a little under, and I got a full refund for the broke one in the Machinist's right now, after all is said and done, the head will cost 300 to machine, and I will rebuild it, which will cost about $450.00USD for each head, and includes everything but the valves. Unless I can get components for the rebuild for cheaper elsewhere, someone please tell me that I can :o. The prices for everything are listed above through NAPA USA and I really don't know where I can get stuff for the AAZ. The latemodel 1.6 Turbo pump was about 150.00 if I remember correctly. All of the work has been done by me, except for the Machining, which was only a deck, and a wash in the acid tank. I can't think of anything else yet.
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I just had a thought, are there any gasser engines that share the same bore as our engines? and out of those, are there any that could share the crank? and piston squirters? The reason I ask is that you could deck the block to make up for the stroke, and rod length. and the other reason that I ask is that it could mean cheap, and readily available blocks for all of us with a more precisely controlled piston protrusion, meaning that everyone could run a metal H/G on a modified gasser block, or have a replacement block for cheap, with just a very little Machining modification. 8) I am sure that someone has thought of this, but being faced with the alternative, of having to find everything all over again this just dawned on me. Maybe Mr. Kraut would know, or one of the older, more knowledgeable members would know, who knows this could even start a new business for someone on the forum here.
thanks,
Kevin
why would you WANT to run such a WEAK setup? gassrer blocks are NOT tough like diesel blocks. gasser guys take and use diesel blocks when they wanna build ***in motors. or motors for lots and LOTS of nitrous...
you could probably get it to work, but its not worth the (waste of) time or money to do it. gasser blocks are weaker alloy, and alot less of it. diesel blocks are much more robust.
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i paid $400 us or something for a complete head all said and done. from prothe...
hasn't given me anything but really high compression so ... take it for what it is
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I didn't know that about the gasser blocks, very nice to know. Had I known all of that I wouldn't have suggested it there rabbitonroids, but thanks for making me feel like a complete dumb @ $ $. We can all count on you to do that for us, don't always appreciate it, but thanks anyway. If I wanted high compression I would get a Prothe head, as I have heard that about them, but I seek low compression for insane boost. I am not really a MAD Scientist per se, more like an ANGRY Scientist. Angry at the world for not accepting me, my creativity, for saying no, for rejecting the truth and accepting lies, for saying it's impossible...... I could go on.
Kevin
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I have been to the shop today, mostly cleaning all of the stuff I'm trying to sell. "I'm the kind of guy that can't stand selling someone junky looking parts" I took the I/M shaft to the guy on the CNC machine, he was skeptical but gave it a try, I have to pay him with a six-pack. He will be finished with my balanced reduced weight I/M shaft tomorrow, I'm stoked, gave him the one from the busted 84' GTI engine that I have "same I/M shaft" and will finish with my diesel, I wanted to use the other as a guinea pig in case it didn't work out. He is going to remove the entire lobe and all casting marks, and finish with making the journal 90* and perfecting it, and making it look pretty. I will have one extra when all is said and done, so anyone want to buy one from me? I still have that whole 84' GTI engine complete too "robbed Peter, the other 1.8 8v that I have to pay Paul" I also discovered, after thorough cleaning in the solvent tank, that the head isn't that bad off about 25 thou. will do the trick, and new bearings and rings will set this motor straight. the valves and everything else are good, so after a good cleaning and a check of the mech. shim clearance, she will be all ready for the road. I could realistically do all three of the I/M shafts that I have. Q: Does the oil filter setup for the 1.8's match the one for the 1.6 cy block?
Kevin
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Feel like a dummy, I just realized that I forgot that the gears are the other direction on the gasser I/M shafts, oh well. I didn't have the diesel one as a ref. because of the thing being in my now totaled car :-[
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Feel like a dummy, I just realized that I forgot that the gears are the other direction on the gasser I/M shafts, oh well. I didn't have the diesel one as a ref. because of the thing being in my now totaled car :-[
nah, the shaft should be the same, you didnt mess up. it should be the gear on the distributor/vac pump thats cut differently. thats what someone told me anyway.
and the filter setup off the 1.8 should fit on there just fine.
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actually the gears on the shaft and the vac pump are different.
the IM shaft itself is identical, the gears are just pressed on, but the gears on the end are different gas to diesel
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yea, i kinda thought so, but somoene at one point said the shafts were the same, but i dindt see how that would work, because if one gear is cut the other way, then the other gear must be cut the same way.
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Well, I guess I could take the old gear off of the gasser I/M shaft, and someone could put one on for a diesel from a broken one, or maybe there is a place that sells just the gears? This thing is going to be perfect when it is finished, balanced, and is going to look very nice "not that it matters" ;D
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Got the I/M shredded in a CNC machine, for FREE "best four letter word in the english language" It is naturally balanced, and is well within specs. I plastiguaged everything today, I need oversize bearings on the mains, new pistons "damaged from being thrown about in a 70mph head on collision", and my rod bearings are good so std everything, to include pistons and rings, unless the .0030 on the crown of the piston means that they are oversize, can anyone help me with this as first oversize for 1.6 is 5 over not three right? anyway, I am prepping to send the crank off to Castillo's crank service in LA "guy is legendary in the tuner scene, and really knows his stuff" to be knife edged and lightened and balanced, and mains oversized. I need a rebuild kit for a 1.6 turbo bottom end and an aaz top end. This is the stuff that is killing me, if I had the parts I could be done with this in a matter of days "I work fast" piston protrusion is unusual with 2/3 not protruding as uch as 1/4 is that normal? I plan to go forward with the dry sump setup and the girdle, I'm gonna make this work. I'll post pics when I can get a chance.
thanks,
Kevin
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how do you check for protrusion if you got messed up pistons? and if they are much different, i would begin to check rods for being bent. 2 and 3 would get bent first in a stock TD engine. since the intake biases those 2 cylinders worst.
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well, now I have an excuse to get a set of these:
http://www.maxspeedingrods.com/parts/rods%20items/vw&audi/VW%20Golf%20Turbo%20Diesel%201.6%20Connecting%20Rods%20Conrods%20Rod%20Pleuel.htm (http://www.maxspeedingrods.com/parts/rods%20items/vw&audi/VW%20Golf%20Turbo%20Diesel%201.6%20Connecting%20Rods%20Conrods%20Rod%20Pleuel.htm)
looks nice, but i'll have to save up a little to get em, and sell a lot of my sh.... errr stuff, if enough people want em, maybe we can do a group buy. I still need a set of oversize main bearings to plastiguage out to see if everything is good. The pistons aren't messed up, just dinged up around the skirts a little, and with what i'll be doing don't want to take any chances. like I said set the deck down on a flat wooden surface and turned the crank, when 1/4 came tdc the block hopped "as in th pistons protruded and the crank was much harder to turn" a bit when 2/3 came tdc they did not protrude enough to make the block hop could be mistaken and the bench I had was warped in the middle. sed some motor oil in the mains and everything else to get everything moving, i'm not running it on a racetrack just turning it and admiring the engineering. Side to side is also good. less than five like the benley calls for.
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what do they want for those rods?
crower also sells rods for the 1.6, but they are X-beam not H-beam(built for less windage at stupid high RPM)
I might be interested if the price is good enough.
-Owen
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crower sells their stuff so that only bill gates could afford to build an engine with their stuff. Don't remember who said it but "in order to make a small fortune racing you have to start with a large one"
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Maybe I've missed a change in your game plan or something, but 1.6 rods work with 1.6 pistons, and 1.5 rods work with 1.5 pistons... no mixing AFAIK. The different pistons have different compression distances.
Sorry if I missed out on an episode here of your mixed-parentage engine build. (No insults meant; I've got a 1.6TD rot. assembly to put together in a new 1.5D block myself, but it will use a massaged 1.6TD head & I/P and head studs. I'm looking for mileage/longevity, not raw speed.)
J.R.
SoCal
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Yeah, been a while, comin in kinda late in the game aren't ya? the title is a little deceptive, should prolly change that. The 1.5 rot. assy. was going to be hell for cold starts putting static comp below 17/1 so I am going to use the 1.6 rotating assy, read a little and you will see. 8)
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Yeah the title is rather misleading.........I still have to think about it to remember what your really doing ::).
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rustling up a vnt17 is a difficult process, but I finally have a handle on some good used gt1749vb's and what vehicles that they come on ;D
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there was one on craigslist a feek or so ago. for 250 bucks.
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There are different 1749's, the va and the v are both vnt's, and are also known as vnt 15's but they are the lower power version, the real vnt17 comes on the euro pd series diesel engines in mostly VW owned vhicles seat, skoda, porsche, etc. this is the daddy and doesn't spool well at idle spools best at just above idle, as I'm told and gives over 120 BHP to a TDI engine, people have reported much more from a proper tune and different controllers though. I plan to use the compressor and housing "mod the vnt17" from a vnt 22 from sprinter diesels and have the good exhaust from the 17 power a much bigger compressor for more boost and see just how much she will take. I imagine, that since some folks are getting 30-45 psi from the vnt17 I should be able to get much more than that at say ballpark 7k rpms.........if all goes well with the build ;D
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There are different 1749's, the va and the v are both vnt's, and are also known as vnt 15's but they are the lower power version, the real vnt17 comes on the euro pd series diesel engines in mostly VW owned vhicles seat, skoda, porsche, etc. this is the daddy and doesn't spool well at idle spools best at just above idle, as I'm told and gives over 120 BHP to a TDI engine, people have reported much more from a proper tune and different controllers though. I plan to use the compressor and housing "mod the vnt17" from a vnt 22 from sprinter diesels and have the good exhaust from the 17 power a much bigger compressor for more boost and see just how much she will take. I imagine, that since some folks are getting 30-45 psi from the vnt17 I should be able to get much more than that at say ballpark 7k rpms.........if all goes well with the build ;D
you arent going to have enough fuel at 7000 rpms. the pump simply wont be able to keep up. and you need lots of fuel to make lots of boost at that high of an rpm.
just remember kevin, these engines do not like boost at low rpms AT ALL! high boost at low rpms makes these buggers bend rods. ask andy2 about bent rods from boost to early. usually when your rods bend, they bent enough to trash the block. i would try and keep the big boost off until 2500 or so. i would not be giving you this warning if you had a normal turbo, but VNTs can actually produce boost at a dead idle.
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Not planning on running high boost at low rpm's maybe I didn't explain it well enough when I did. The point here, is that this particular setup is perfect for what I want it for. If I can bend forged h-beam chromoly rods, I say, bring it on ;D but not really :( I will be sending the pump to giles to see what he can do for me, this is really a unique situation, and want to kind of drop it on him real surprise like :o
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giles probably already knew you were building something before you knew. gotta remember, he has magic powers.
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giles, he has magic powers.
X2 ;D
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DARN! I worked SOOOOOO hard to keep it a secret too ;)
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made up my mind, going with the spyder install, post is here:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=24629.0 (http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=24629.0)
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so, i'm doing some head work and need to know the angle to use on my franken head, I will be using solid lifters with a solid lifter cam, don't know if that means anything but someone told me that hydro engines and solid engines like different things. So hows about it? 3 angle? 5 angle? and what angles should be used, aggressive is fine. I am doing this myself, so any do's and don'ts will be awesome, as well as another question, could you throw these on the lathe and trim them up a bit around the bottom? or bad idea, I'm talking about where it thickens before it tapers down into the mushroom, would giving this a more smooth shape make for more performance? also can I opt for performance valves? are there such a thing? sodium filled are better? I plan on ceramic coating everything anyway. Are there any engines that share better internals, My aaz has the 8mm thickness valves.
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so, i'm doing some head work and need to know the angle to use on my franken head, I will be using solid lifters with a solid lifter cam, don't know if that means anything but someone told me that hydro engines and solid engines like different things. So hows about it? 3 angle? 5 angle? and what angles should be used, aggressive is fine. I am doing this myself, so any do's and don'ts will be awesome, as well as another question, could you throw these on the lathe and trim them up a bit around the bottom? or bad idea, I'm talking about where it thickens before it tapers down into the mushroom, would giving this a more smooth shape make for more performance? also can I opt for performance valves? are there such a thing? sodium filled are better? I plan on ceramic coating everything anyway. Are there any engines that share better internals, My aaz has the 8mm thickness valves.
if you want to take a chance milling a sodium filled valve, go for it, but the head will probably break off. just get a newer aaz head, or better yet, just put the 7mm valve guides in your head and run the 7mm valves. old style engines run 8mm valves.
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air cooled engines plus Tiffin, Ohio. He can do valves. All stainles, full race cheaper than OEM sodium.
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I just spent WAY too much time ready through this, good thing the boss isnt here...
Looks like your getting good info from everyone so I'll stay out for now 8)
Keep it going.
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thanks zukgod, your praise humbles me 8) I have some more pics folks and an update. I have more money for go fast parts, crank to go to castillos, order h-beam, chromoly rods, and the mech lifters and cam from a 1.6 td anyone interested in two aaz hyro cams? no gear though :( I will cut my losses for now and send the heads to be rebuilt, with new everything and all will have the 8mm valves, I will then proceed to port her out, or I may just prt it now and then send em off, either way I plan to g oto my machinist and get some clearances checked. I'm also going to the boneyard to gut a great cond. 16v gasser of all goody parts I can lay my grubby fingers on, and search for another one, any one interested in anything?
now for the pics
block got some surface oxidation on it from where it was in my "now totaled car" and the stupid wreckers left all of the doors open for mother nature to piss on all of my nice, meticulously cleaned engine parts.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020906.jpg)
old pistons, going to spec them at the machinist and get some new/er ones regardless, they were banged up pretty bad from the 70mph collision that totaled my car. :-[
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020905.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020904.jpg)
you can see my clean and shaved I/M shaft, reinstalled, I plan to change out the bearings before I finish.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020898.jpg)
hopefully... the guys over at the tanks machine shop will open their hearts and let me use their cnc machine to make a girdle from solid chromoly, and then I will take the mains to them to grind em down, and make me some spacers.,..... hopefully.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020897.jpg)
The late style pump I will send off to Giles to be souped up
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020894.jpg)
the pretty aaz head that I have, well... one of them. ::)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020892.jpg)
mock up with a H/G from an aaz, from a member here, it is used and will not be for my build. This is strictly so that I can drill steam holes in the mech block that I have.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/my%2080%20rabbit%20diesel/new%20aaz%20head/clean/P1020921.jpg)
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Hydraulic head on a Mechanical block??
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yuppers ;D I will add a plug to the extra oil drain in the head and get it a little deeper than the surface, then plane the rest away for a perfect surface for the aaz head gasket, that I will use. I still have a ways to go, I need the tranny and mounts to use for placement/measurement in my 2001 toyota mr2 spyder and I still need the vnt17 and 22 from europe to make the hybrid turbo that I need for this to really haul. Still need to send off the crank, order the chromoly rods, and machine the engine girdle, as well as the intake intercooler and so much more, but so far so good. I can only hope to be finished before I deploy in oct nov timeframe. 8) Any questions this is where to ask them, lots of good advice from others, as well as pictures of, quite possibly, the most difficult way to do this particular configuration.
Kevin
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air cooled engines plus Tiffin, Ohio. He can do valves. All stainles, full race cheaper than OEM sodium.
IF you didn't send your head out already this guy I thought was CHEAP and he included the airflow bench numbers for me. He did my entire head for almost what it would have cost me to buy the peices. I had almost 600 in it with shipping both ways. The machine shops around here that don't do VW stuff wanted more, and so did VW. There is a guy named Jack that has another forum for VWs in columbus that wanted around 500, but that is without shipping and for a stock rebuild. So I went with the full ported, stainless steel, swirl polished, undercut stems, and the flow bench numbers instead. I am just trying to help you out here kevin as it is all about time and $$$ now for you it sounds. The guy's name is John I believe and is a VW Porche fanatic that will treat you well.
Here is my 1.6 heads flow numbers.
(http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/21/l_d32b370c5d4d44c5950378f28ea121a6.jpg)
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Drilling holes for the steam, is also in the works. Saukraut, has done this already, so I am confident that this will work, there shouldn't be any problems of anything leaking out anywhere, when I'm done. By done this he has converted a non-hydro head to work with a hydro block, or is it the otherway around, oh nevermind, the important thing is that this will work.
Kevin
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If you follow what saurkrat has done you will be fine. What Libby is saying is that on the Mech block there is not a second oil drain. On the hydro head and block there are the 2 humps up front for that hole. When you put your hydro head on there isn't a coolant passage at the same spot so the coolant dumps out where the oil drain is. Audi 80 which is now MJF(another forum genius) put a piece of a new oil cap cut to fit into the head gasket hole. This blocks the coolant from leaving the engine. Unless you buy a custom MLS gasket like 53willy's did. The HG I sent you to do your steam holes should have paint all over that hole as I was making a template to cut the oil gasket perfectly. I am kind of anal so what should have been a 2 minute process took me 3.5 hours and I only had 1 peice of oil cap gasket big enough to fit. I finally nailed it and have a little slit cut into the piece I cut so it pushes into the MLS a little. Then I used the copper high temp silicone to "glue" and seal it into place. clear as mud???
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a bit confused at first, but this cleared things right up, sorry for any confuion.
thanks,
Kevin
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I have seen it, now what is the suggestion? ??? update time, I have ordered a powdercoat system "vwdiesel members get a discount ;)" I will be powdercoating everything, as well as checking on the ststus of the head I had sent out to be repaired "out of sheer curiosity" I will also send out the crank to castillo's to be lightened, and start ordering all of the particulars. Once the 80' rabbit is together and sold, then I will start getting all of the go fast parts. I am also going to be sending out my injectors and pumps to giles this week sometime, by the by, has anyon eheard from him in a while? I tried e-mailing but no cigar??? :'(
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I have ordered a powdercoat system "vwdiesel members get a discount
If you don't mind me asking - how much is a system??
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I am also going to be sending out my injectors and pumps to giles this week sometime, by the by, has anyon eheard from him in a while? I tried e-mailing but no cigar??? :'(
Best bet is to call him - he usually does respond to email, eventually. He's much more of a "let's talk" type of person though from what I gather. Guess he's too busy in his shop working on things to be sitting in front of the computer!
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makes perfect sense, good man 8)
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I talked to him Tues.? this week. He was just starting on my pump that i sent about 2 weeks earlier. So you can judge off that.
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i drilled the "steam holes" in my 1.6/1.9
it really speeds up the time it takes to get coolant in the whole thing and purged of all bubbles.
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Was away for a few days doing some pre-deployment training for afghan, and thought that I would share.
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/field%20op/P1030169.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/field%20op/P1030183.jpg)
(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss298/NintendoKD/field%20op/P1030174.jpg)
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Ok, been a while since I posted here, but I have some time to work on things a bit, but come to find out my Machinist has a brain tumor and will no longer be able to provide his services, as well as not doing any of the Machine work that I sent him to do anyways. I now have a tranny for the project, and will now need the aid of a driveline shop to build the custom driveline for the spyder. In the meantime I am finishing the build on the 1.5 and now need to send the head off to be rebuilt, and might as well have it sent to the guy in ohio as well as the aaz heads and a certain gti head that I have to get ported out and rebuilt.
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i thought that head was no good? keep your eyes open for another solid lifter head..
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I am swapping the valves etc. to an 86 gti head that is a hydro head and am having that head fixed up real nice like ;D 86 gti hydro head 84 gti valves cam etc. ooh yeah