VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => FAQ/Tech Tips/Please Read First => Topic started by: ashleyroe on January 30, 2009, 09:32:51 am
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figured since i didn't see that many people posted anything on this and the search didn't bring up much, that i would post mine so people could see.
it's only partially finished at the moment.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/pointyourgun2/DSCN4150.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/pointyourgun2/DSCN4143.jpg)
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/issamabed/DSCN3208-new.jpg)
can't wait till it's finished.
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WHere did you get the kit? PartsPlace?
I'm marginally worried about that harmonic balancer on a 1.6 with a key-way slot on the crankshaft. That's the same recipe for the AAZ crankshaft nose failure. You might want to make sure your crank sprocket is new, along with a new bolt and ALOT of locktite on the bolt. Even that might not save you.
You may want to read up the AAZ issue. Search "AAZ and CRANK".
Having said that, you may not have a problem, so long as your alternator has a clutch in it. Which, it doesn't look like you do. That looks like a stock alternator pulley.
That could be disastrous in about 1-2 years.
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Here's one thread on adding the clutched pulley to the serpentine alternator so as to save the crank nose:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15010
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Here's one thread on adding the clutched pulley to the serpentine alternator so as to save the crank nose:
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=15010
Real good stuff there. Nice post Vince.
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excuse my ignorance, but i'm alittle unsure of what you guys are telling me.
i don't see how this set up is a problem or what happens if i do run this.
also since that link is someone adding a/c and i do not have any acessories in my car.
and the fact that this set up is made for any engine, including diesels.
unless the dealer does not know what they are talking about.
this kit is not a knock off from some random parts place.
it normally sells for $400 dollars but i pieced together my own, with part numbers which made it sensibly cheaper.
thank you though for bringing this to my attention if it is a real issue i should be looking out for. once again as my other thread states, i am new to diesels.
here is the thread i got the idea from for reference, it was the only reasonable way for us to run no a/c in my car as we tried many other belt set ups with no luck...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3871186
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The problem is that the serp setup doesn't slip like a v-belt. The alternator pulses mixed with all the other pulses (engine, pump etc) stresses the key on the crank gear. It eventually wears enough and there goes your pistons, straight into your valves :evil:
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There have been quite a few folks on here that had problems with AAZ crankshaft keyways. It's a world-wide phenomenon.
As noted by others, the combination of a harmonic balancer, and a fixed-pulley on the alternator puts a good deal of stress on the crank sprocket.
If the crank bolt is not properly torqued when removed/installed (and even sometimes, when it's never been touched), the sprocket can rock back and forth in it's keyway. Through time, this will wear the sides of the crank keyway, and in the worst case scenario, jump time and do damage to the valves and pistons.
The ideal and permanent fix if it ever happens to you, is to do any one of several tricks:
1) Remove the crankshaft, and weld the nose (sprocket end) of the crankshaft. Then, have it broached to accept the TDI sprocket, which has a flat spot and no keyway:
http://www.msnusers.com/gtdforum/shoebox.msnw?Page=3
2) Fix it on the car using a jig and a broach, as outlined in the link above.
3) Use metal dowel pins and drill into your crank nose and sprocket to secure the sprocket and prevent it from rocking. There are several write ups on Vortex about people who've used dowel pins on crank noses (usually 16v or G60 cars).
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3793916
If you want to read up on some cases, check out the following links
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3959069
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3988582
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1010&start=0
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2719
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5874
http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=14722
http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=17422&highlight=
The last one is a recent AAZ crank nose failure on a UK Vanagon.
What this has to do with your ABF setup is that, like the AAZ, you'll be running a heavy harmonic balancer, and an alternator, that at high speeds, will have a lot of rotational inertia. So, when you let off the gas, the motor slows down quickly, but the alternator may still be trying to rotate forward after the engine has already slowed down. Because of the added-contant tension on the belt from the spring-loaded tensioner, there is no way for the alternator to release that inertia energy.
The VW factory solution was to install a pulley on the alternator that only spun one-way (as posted by Vince above). When the engine is not pushing the alternator, it free-wheels so to speak, when the engine powers down. This relieves the counter-acting forces which put stress on the crank-shaft pulley.
I know it might suck thinking about putting another $150 into an alternator pulley, but if you look at any of those threads listed above, you can see that the alternative is much worse.
Just a thought.
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i noticed on everyone of those links the car's are TD and TDI's.
does it matter that my car isn't?
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It's the unloading side of the equation (ie when you take your foot off the pedal) that causes the "torque in the opposite direction to normal" on the crank sprocket... and can eventually wobble the sprocket loose. "Unloading" happens with the same abruptness regardless of if you have a turbo or not. :wink:
Don't let us freak you out... you've assembled a great kit of quality parts and are going to enjoy having a single serpentine belt. If you have time some day posting the various part numbers would likely a huge help to those who follow your footsteps.
It is a fact, unfortunately, that when VW switched to the serpentine belt they soon discovered a weakness in the design of the crank nose when it gets subjected to the unloading forces of a bigger harmonic balancer pulley in combination with the smaller alternator pulley. Many of us AAZ owners have inherited the result :cry:. VW's response was to switch crank nose designs and add a clutched pulley to the alternator.
As long as you're:
- using a crank and crank sprocket with keyways in great condition
- using a brand new stretch crank bolt
- fastidious about torquing it exactly using the full factory procedure for stretch bolts
- giving some thought to replacing the solid alternator pulley with the clutched design (they seem to have dropped in price lately btw). It looks like you've sourced a new pulley specific for this application... perhaps it has a different offset and thus not compatible with the clutched design tho.
you should be gold. :wink:
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Ok Ashley as made me aware of this thread as you guys are scaring her a little too much....
Let it be known that we have ABF alternator kits on AAZ and AFN's for almost 3 years now with NO issues and I have been selling these for as long as I could remember.
Because of the added-contant tension on the belt from the spring-loaded tensioner, there is no way for the alternator to release that inertia energy.
:?
There is no tension on the belt from the spring.The spring is there to "push" the alternator out then once the belt is tight you secure the alternator with an M8 bolt.The spring has now done its job and infact we dont even sell the spring with the kit as it:
1. is expensive
2. is dangerous to compress (it is a gearbox spring)
3. is a pain in the ass to install
4. does not provide tension.
Simply pry the alternator out and tension the belt to suite.
If the crank bolt is not properly torqued when removed/installed (and even sometimes, when it's never been touched), the sprocket can rock back and forth in it's key way. Through time, this will wear the sides of the crank key way, and in the worst case scenario, jump time and do damage to the valves and pistons.
This is an issue with 1.8T,G60 and NUMEROUS other VAG engines,not just diesel units.
The G60 nor the early 1.8T motors had clutches on the alternator pulleys and some held up fine to 300,000+ km's whereas others failed leaving the show room.Its no secret that the issue lies with the MAINTENANCE of these motors.The crankshaft front seal leaks around 130,000 km's forcing users to change them which requires the removal of the crankshaft timing gear bolt.Unfortunately for most improperly installing this will cause failure whether it is in 2 weeks 2 months or 2 years....
What I usually do is wedge a piece of wood between the crankcase and the crankshaft and use a 4 foot long torque bar for installing to correct OEM specs.
I have worked on AAZ's with complete serpentine set ups from new and we are now in 2009.Never once an issue with a failed crankshaft keyway.
As noted by others, the combination of a harmonic balancer, and a fixed-pulley on the alternator puts a good deal of stress on the crank sprocket..
The harmonic dampner does QUITE the opposite.It absorbs the energy,not transfers it....
I guess we need to add a clutch onto the water pump pulley as well?
The scenario you are describing is far fetched and you are more likely to bend your valves over revving a diesel than you are with failing a crankshaft snout with a non clutch alternator pulley.
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Is it just me, or does the serp crank pulley that she posted look different than the standard keyway pulley on the 1.9's? (the opening that is) Maybe we are comparing two different designs here....
Either way, Issam has been around in the VW tuning scene for a long time, I trust his judgment. Not that I don't trust the rest of you guys either, I'm just wondering if we are comparing apples to oranges.
Brendan
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the TDI longblock i bought from Europe has about 160,000 kilometers on it (or less) and the keyway was damaged. by damaged i mean the crank sprocket was a pretty loose fit. it had to be welded up and filed for a good fit. if i would have ran the engine with like this, i could probably expect a few years of normal driving out of it, or maybe just a few months if i was driving like i stole it. i do believe that there are definitely stresses from the alternator, but they will take a very long time to show up. most cars start showing signs at 300,000km's.
although very rare, even some cars with the V-belt setup have shown signs of the crank pulley trouble.
this information is definitely not intended to scare anyone. it is the same reason why we post about the cheap infuse of chinese parts into the market, and the reason people need to do a due dilligence on whatever parts they are installing on their cars. there are countless documented crank failures, which proves that it occurs, and that the serpentine belt is the root cause. of course driving style might have something to do with it as well...
i started a thread a while back about the feasibility of using a stud instead of a crank bolt. IMO the stud could be torqued far more than the crank bolt, and the stud wouldn't back out the same as the crank bolt. as a bonus, the stud could also be re-used :wink:
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Momentum is a big part of this, IMHO.
Spin the water pump pulley by hand. How hard was it to spin? How long did it stay spinning? If you wanted to stop it spinning with your hand how hard would it be?
Now do the same thing with the AAZ-style alternator pulley. Much harder to start spinning, wants to spin much longer, hard on your fingers to stop it spinning.
That's momentum in action... and likely one of the reasons why VW put a clutched pulley on the some implementations of the serpentine alternator but didn't bother with the water pump. ;-)
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That's momentum in action... and likely one of the reasons why VW put a clutched pulley on the some implementations of the serpentine alternator but didn't bother with the water pump. ;-)
Thanks for the definition on momentum...I forgot I was a Mech. Engineer for a minute. :roll:
The likely reason why VW put clutch pulleys on some models but not others is COST.Yes they do have a purpose and yes you do have a point but to state that a non clutched pulley will cause your crankshaft keyway to wear is a bit of a far fetch IMHO.Look @ what the torque rating for the crankshaft bolt is.
Further more VW runs these engines on dyno's for 100,000's of km's before they even find there way into a chassis.I am pretty confident that they knew what they were doing when they developed these engines.
That being said, yes the crank serp pulley shown is not what is typically found on the AAZ.
Regardless, I don't see how the pulley design would have any effect at all on the failure.
Andrew
Andrew,
The pulley I use is a 06A 1.8T crankshaft pulley.It is a better upgrade from the stock v-belt pulleys as it has a built in harmonic dampner.The AAZ pulley (028 105 243T) you have shown is extremely expensive and not available for under $250US....I know because I bought all that overland had :wink:
You are correct.The crankshaft design would not have an effect on the failure of the crank bolt.
The crank/sprocket failure due to the combination of standard keyway sprocket, serpentine belt and solid alt pulley is very prevalent and well-known. Nothing has been posted to "scare" anyone, but rather to assist in preventing very expensive engine destruction. I would not run the serpentine setup on any engine with the standard keyway or solid alt pulley.
Andrew
The issue I have with the above is that allthough it is "well known" it is simply unproven.I have been involved with alot of high performance builds (700+hp) and I can tell you the biggest issue with these engines is harmonics.
I am going to have a very hard time believing that a non clutch alternator pulley will cause catastrophic failure to a problem that stems all across the VAG board.What does that tell me? That tells me that whether it is diesel,gas ,external water pump block or internal water pump block the problem lies elsewhere.
I actually spoke with ARP 3+ years ago about either a stud & nut kit OR an ARP bolt kit for the crankshaft sprocket.Unfortunately the supply vs demand was slim to none.
Right now I am looking into getting larger harmonic dampners made for both high performance gasoline and diesel engines.Dont think I am trying to come here and prove any of you wrong.If you want to believe that your keyway is going to fail and that you need to pin your pulley then by all means go for it.
p.s. There are some BRP & ALH motors that have non clutched Alternators :wink:
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Thanks for the definition on momentum...I forgot I was a Mech. Engineer for a minute. :roll:
Unlike other spots on the web the idea here is to check the ego at the door and learn from each other, regardless of background. None of us work for VW as engine designers so everyone's opinion is just that... an opinion, and a valid one... when expressed respectfully.
Your sarcasm is frankly not appreciated.
In this case, my personal thoughts on momentum were not intended for any mechanical engineers in the group but were in fact a reflection that this group has people at varied levels of knowledge and understanding... myself included, and thinking about momentum is one angle to consider when pondering this particular design.
Everyone has a perspective... some may be closer to the truth than others... but in the end we're here to learn from each other. I'd respectfully ask that we all take the tone of this particular thread down a notch, recognize that there are many many ways to interpolate what was on the mind of those wacky VW designers, and carry on learning from each other.
'Nuff said... back to the discussion.:wink:
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p.s. There are some BRP & ALH motors that have non clutched Alternators :wink:
if that's the case, that would explain the ALH failure i've seen. those engines even have a smaller machined end for a quicker crank pulley death.
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Unlike other spots on the web the idea here is to check the ego at the door and learn from each other, regardless of background. None of us work for VW as engine designers so everyone's opinion is just that... an opinion, and a valid one... when expressed respectfully.
Everyone has a perspective... some may be closer to the truth than others... but in the end we're here to learn from each other. I'd respectfully ask that we all take the tone of this particular thread down a notch, recognize that there are many many ways to interpolate what was on the mind of those wacky VW designers, and carry on learning from each other.
'Nuff said... back to the discussion.:wink:
Well said. Thank you for the reminder Obi-wan :wink:
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Well, you missed the ones that AutohausAZ.com is selling NEW for $65. :wink: :lol:
(That's where the picture is snagged from...)
Andrew
Try ordering one and see if they have them in stock.They usually dont :(
if that's the case, that would explain the ALH failure i've seen. those engines even have a smaller machined end for a quicker crank pulley death.
Not really.As I have stated above we have seen failures on everything clutch and non clutch related.Again it is your choice to take whatever information you deem necessary from this thread and learn from it but if it was me I would double pin the crank snout before I change my alternator pulley.
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The Keyway is in the crank sprocket itself, not the serpentine pulley.
That being said, yes the crank serp pulley shown is not what is typically found on the AAZ. Here is a pic of the typical pulley:
Regardless, I don't see how the pulley design would have any effect at all on the failure.
Andrew
Ah right. Sorry about that. :) Still, the serp pulley that Ashley posted looks like it might weigh a lot less than the AAZ pulley- with more substantial dampening. If that's the case, then I do think the serp pulley design would play a part in keyway failure. Maybe the dampening is there not to reduce harmonics from the engine (since v-belt VW's didn't have them) but instead to reduce pulsing from the serpentine accessories?
Brendan
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HOLY CRAP GUY'S :?
I agree with Vince, lets all leave our ego's at the door.
this being said, it is my opinion that you are all right... VAG has acknowledged the problem and has put forth what they believe will fix it in some cases.
I for one will be doing the clutched pulley upgrade but now I am also interested in a more efficient Harmonic balancer ( thanks Wizard )as I will be building a high HP AAZ.
Weather you are an engineer, professional mechanic or just a shadetree mechanic like myself we can all be right on points and sometimes be not so right, but I think all the cases argued in this thread are VALID and can be addressed in different manners.
now can we give this thread back to Ashley? who will have a good looking setup going :lol:
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Ok I've been following this issue for years (I suffered a crank nose failure on my AAZ, super fun times...) and upgraded my motor to a TDi crank & pulley setup but kept the solid pulley because I thought I was safe.
So even with my tdi crank should I be looking for a clutched alt pulley? I've been told they can corrode & seize by a vw mech who replaces them often for that reason...fyi, although this group would probably be better at noticing that happening than the average driver I suspect.
Does anyone have a drawing that a machine shop could use to modify cranks out of car? Andrew you're too far away & I have a mate looking into moding his.
Good exchange BTW boys!!
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There was some chatter in the 2006-2007 era over on tdiclub about the clutched pulleys failing catastrophically (ie flying apart) as opposed to simply seizing, but the belief is that this was a earlier version of the pulley... a new design (and part number, iirc) was released and I've not seen any recent reports of unusual pulley failure... either seized or in pieces all over the highway. :wink:
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So all tdi's even after the crank nose change came/come with a clutched pulley now?
Anyone hear of failures after the crank node change was made??
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whoa, apparently this thread blew up when i wasn't looking...
Ok Ashley as made me aware of this thread as you guys are scaring her a little too much....
first off, no one scared me about anything.
i was just alittle confused why a "great" seller like INA (wizard of od) was posting this set up all over the diesel forums without mentioning that it would still cause crank failure.
secondly, his customer service abilities make me question his mechanic abilities or even knowledge.
now, i know you and me patched things up and yes you do have great prices on most items. but to be honestly i'm alittle weary to buy anything else from you right now until proven wrong. in my opinion if i was running a business and had messed up and also made a customer unhappy by thread jacking her post [on vortex], i would have sent out the right spacer right away and let her keep the old one and gave a discount on the belt too. but that's just me.
as for this cranknose failure issue, i am putting the car together the way it is and if in some crazy case it does fail, turbo diesel here i come.
thank you though, everyone for your help in all this.
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The fact that one of the participants in this discussion has a vested commercial interest in the outcome is new information... cool !! :wink:
Have at 'er Ashley and let us know how it works... it's a tidy setup for sure... torque the crank sprocket as per spec and Bob's your uncle!
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sure will :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/pointyourgun2/DSCN4174.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/pointyourgun2/DSCN4176.jpg)
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Wow... that is one clean Bunny!! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/up1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/up1.jpg)
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Wow... that is one clean Bunny!!
why thank you :mrgreen:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/pointyourgun2/DSCN4127.jpg)
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yay!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/pointyourgun2/DSCN4192.jpg)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/pointyourgun2/DSCN4193.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v727/pointyourgun2/DSCN4194.jpg)
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is it just me or does that look improper? the alt should have 180 deg of belt contact, and its missing the tensioner. (disregard if im pointing out the obvious :lol:)
because this car doesn't have A/C, i think that the crank sprocket is mostly fine. again the driving habits/style will be the ultimate deciding factor in the crank nose failure. winding the motor out to 5k and then putting the car into neutral, or hard shifting will cause most of the damage. the fact that 1.9 AAZ motors have been known to go 300,000km or more with the 'bad' non TDI sprocket leads me to believe this.
at andy2's place, i saw an ALH with the crank nose failure as well. it was interesting that he mentioned the later models came with a smaller slot :roll: and i've seen a post with a TDI crank failure as well, so the alternator clutched pulley really is the REAL fix, unless you drive fairly gentle.
so just drive the car as you would normally, and enjoy the serp setup. if you really want the TD swap, you'll need to drive that thing pretty hard :twisted:
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and its missing the tensioner. (disregard if im pointing out the obvious :lol:)
haha, let me tell you that spring is badass, it was so easy to tension it was crazy. i'm really happy with the way that all came out and definitely no one around here, or atleast the very very few with diesels have anything that clean as an upgrade.
unless you drive fairly gentle.
oh, i'll be a wuss with this car, not like the 52 hp is anything for me to play with anyway :roll:
so just drive the car as you would normally, and enjoy the serp setup. if you really want the TD swap, you'll need to drive that thing pretty hard :twisted:
haha, this car will only get driven maybe twice a week and to shows. thursday night gtg's and on saturdays or sundays. i will most definitely enjoy the setup and the car all together.
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I was wondering how you dealt with the 4th bolt for the bracket as there is no casting in the 1.6 block to accommodate it.
we didn't use the 4th bolt for that reason.
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yes, the bracket has a special hole for this spring and the alternator has a notched spot underneath for the capped size of the spring and the pressure from the spring pushes the alternator up and keeps tension on the belt when adjusting. on the bottom is the long slot for the screw to keep it adjusted.
i sourced this picture from google.
this is a underneath shot.
bracket on left spring in the middle putting pressure on the alt.
(http://www.timbox.net/Link/2007/ABF/spring.jpg)
this is another shot (courtesy of google) so you can see the actual hole in the bracket for the spring.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/vwovw/VW/motor23.jpg
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Sorry,
I only now found the time to respond.
How about this, why don't you waste your time "proving" that the standard keyway and unclutched alt pulley don't increase the odds of crank nose/sprocket failure. Maybe VW just updated the designs because they were bored?
I have no way of proving that without running an engine on a dyno for 500+ hours of constant abuse and HOPE that it would replicate a failure scenario.As for WHY VW updated the design of the keyway? Maybe because they updated the design of the entire bottom end running less accessories on a serpentine set up and more on a toothed belt set up?
That would be downright childish and a waste of my time and money.
No need to waste your time and money then.A simple phone call would have fixed that and they are currently out of stock of said item :wink:
Why do all VW factory rebuilt 1.9 IDI motors come with the updated crank nose and sprocket? Did they replace all of the crankshafts as a fashion statement?
And yet they went into chassis's with non clutch alternator pulleys.Apples to Oranges comparison.I am not talking about the crankshaft snout nor do I care about it.
Well, I guess that's half the point that has been made. VW did the equivalent of double pinning the crank by updating the sprocket keyway and yet did so without the effect of weakening the nose that double-pinning would have.
What is your explanation for the massively increased proportion of crank nose/sprocket failures with the 1.9 idi motors as opposed to the 1.6 idi motors which otherwise share the exact same crank nose and sprocket interface? How do you explain the similarly proportional decrease in failures in engines fitted with the updated crank sprocket and freewheel pulley?
"proportional decrease". "massively increased".You speak as though you are the voice of millions of IDI/TDI users around the globe.
I have had a brand new AAZ crate motor from VAG in my warehouse and the alternator pulley was no different than the aluminum unit I sell.Infact spend 5 minutes on ebay and you will see that most of the TDI's sold in Europe came equipped with a non clutch alternator pulley and these ranged all the way up to 2.5 TDI's!
http://cgi.ebay.de/Lichtmaschine-VW-Passat-3-TDI_W0QQitemZ370101455428QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item370101455428&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.de/Lichtmaschine-VW-T4-Transporter-LT-2-5-TDI-90A-NEU_W0QQitemZ370168078121QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item370168078121&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.de/lichtmaschine-v6-tdi-akn-vw-passat-3b-3bg-audi-a4-a6_W0QQitemZ180335515977QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item180335515977&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
I have requested from 4 friends who are VW/Audi certified tech's a TSB from VAG stating that they have updated all non clutch alternator on TDI motors to clutch units AND they have updated the crankshaft gears.None of the 4 could provide me a TSB with anything even close.I know you run a business and I know you are just trying to get your point across but understand my point of view.If Volkswagen saw this as a serious issue they would have recalled all motors and fixed the issues like they have done in the past with other engine models and no offense but I would trust a VAG Engineer over you :wink: .
Unless you can show me a TSB from VW/Audi stating otherwise then you are simply drawing your own conclusions based on observations rather than facts.
I'm curious why the pulley in the posted setup is deemed better than the stock AAZ pulley. They both appear to be similar in mass and both are harmonic dampening pulleys. I would add that the later 1.6 motors also had dampening crank pulleys with the v-belt system.
Andrew
Nowhere did I deem the 06A pulley "better" at all? The 06A pulley is easier to source new and has a smaller diameter than the AAZ unit.FWIW I use the AAZ pulley on my own personal motor....
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd25/issamabed/DSC_0996.jpg)
The fact that one of the participants in this discussion has a vested commercial interest in the outcome is new information... cool !! :wink:
Of course I would have a vested commercial interest.How can I not?It is a product I developed and I stand behind it like all the other products I develop.Lets be a little fair shall we? If you were in my shoes you would be doing the same.How would you feel if a customer that bought a product from you told you that your product was in laymans terms "***".There have been crankshaft snout failures all across the VAG board and most are not even on diesel motors!!
One of the services that my engineering firm offers is the ability to machine ANY part to within 0.0001".If I wanted to integrate a clutch pulley into the set up I would have and still can but the reality is that there still is not enough evidence TO ME that a non clutched alternator pulley will cause catastrophic engine failure.
i was just alittle confused why a "great" seller like INA (wizard of od) was posting this set up all over the diesel forums without mentioning that it would still cause crank failure.
Why would I mention that my set up would cause crank failure when that is simply False and UNPROVEN.
secondly, his customer service abilities make me question his mechanic abilities or even knowledge.
:roll: ....and then people wonder why I write FAQ's/tech threads.Please do not ever question my mechanical ability as I find that rather insulting especially on an open public forum!
on the bottom is the long slot for the screw to keep it adjusted.
The Screw does not keep it adjusted....the screw FIXES the alternator to the bracket.The belt is tensioned by the spring and then when the belt is tensioned you tighten the screw.So how does the screw or spring provide tension to a FIXED system?
Simple answer - it does not.
I would have sent out the right spacer right away and let her keep the old one and gave a discount on the belt too. but that's just me.
I asked both Kevin & you to give me a measurement!!
I am still waiting for you to provide this which you have not done.I have been NOTHING BUT cooperative in this matter....I am not sure what more you want me to do?
I cant send you a correct spacer if I do not know which crankshaft gear you have and I am certainly not going to let you keep a part that you do not need.They are about 4 different versions.
Look it is clear alot of us got off on the wrong foot and I am here trying to correct this but some of you are not making this easy.I apologise if I am coming off to strong but I feel as though my posts are falling on deaf ears.
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The Screw does not keep it adjusted....the screw FIXES the alternator to the bracket.The belt is tensioned by the spring and then when the belt is tensioned you tighten the screw.So how does the screw or spring provide tension to a FIXED system?
Simple answer - it does not.
you may have read what i wrote wrong, or maybe but i typed it wrong, but yes that spring does provide tension.... ONCE.
it provides tension when you let the alternator back up after putting the belt on, and then you tighten the screw which makes it a fixed system.
at this point you're just looking for stuff to argue about.
ashleyroe wrote:
i was just alittle confused why a "great" seller like INA (wizard of od) was posting this set up all over the diesel forums without mentioning that it would still cause crank failure.
Why would I mention that my set up would cause crank failure when that is simply False and UNPROVEN.
well, yes. exactly i was asking that question... which is the reason everyone posted on here and i got an answer.
everyone was saying that you were awesome and know a ton. so i asked them why this is still an issue then... and if it is an issue does he know because hes not posting it.
It is a product I developed and I stand behind it like all the other products I develop.Lets be a little fair shall we? If you were in my shoes you would be doing the same.How would you feel if a customer that bought a product from you told you that your product was in laymans terms "***".
what? you invented the ABF?
i never said your product was ***. i wouldn't have bought it if it was.
every part of this setup i have is amazing...
all i said is your customer service is because you never got all the information from me in the first place to send me the correct parts! and now you want me to send you back the wrong spacer you sent me. well, the day you send me a prepaid envelope to send it back in i will. you're the one who made me unhappy with your service and lack of professionalism.
ps:
I have requested from 4 friends who are VW/Audi certified tech's a TSB from VAG stating that they have updated all non clutch alternator on TDI motors to clutch units AND they have updated the crankshaft gears.
kevin is a vw/audi certified tech.
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Thanks everyone for your particular perspective.
It does appear that we're in pure back-and-forth mode on this thread, with little hope for any new info to surface.
Let's call it a day on this one, before we turn into the Vortex.