VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: R.O.R-2.0 on September 18, 2012, 07:07:57 pm
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ive never thought it could be possible for these to flow a whole hell of alot better than the stock TD manifold..
anyone got any numbers on these manifolds?
(http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015/88/18/15878881_large.jpg)
(http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/88/28/15878882_large.jpg)
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I think it would flow better just from the larger Inlet piece and all the runners being aimed a bit nice, its not gas intake but I'd think it's easily better than the older diesels ones
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And the D ports hold a good bit more air.
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Those D ports fit nicely with the AAZ head once going Franken ;)
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how does it compare with a 1.9D intake(from 1y engines,looks like a gasser with long runners)?
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IDK, Looks to me like #1 would lose the battle for fighting for air. That is if the inside is open just like the reg. 1.6 TD intake. And 2 and 3 look like they would still get the most of it as their runners look 2" shorter than 1 and 4. I think it would be better in the fact that it is longer runners than the standard TD intake, but not much that is why I am building mine not buying one of these.
I would still like to see #s just like you Kevin. I could be way off on my guess and want it to be confirmed either way.
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IDK, Looks to me like #1 would lose the battle for fighting for air. That is if the inside is open just like the reg. 1.6 TD intake. And 2 and 3 look like they would still get the most of it as their runners look 2" shorter than 1 and 4. I think it would be better in the fact that it is longer runners than the standard TD intake, but not much that is why I am building mine not buying one of these.
I would still like to see #s just like you Kevin. I could be way off on my guess and want it to be confirmed either way.
i would think a 1Y intake would be leaps and bounds better than the PD intake..
it still looks like its gonna bias #2 & #3 tho.. but it looks like #4 might get a LITTLE more air than the stock TD mani..
but it looks like #1 is still getting the shi**y end of the stick..
and all 4 runners are different lengths.. i dont like that..
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There's a lot of BS spoken about these on the net - just because they are attached to an engine that makes a lot of power, they must be good.
I believed the hype until I saw one for real and thought that's little improvement on the old TD manifold.
I'll stick to the 1Y manifold thanks.
(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr281/regcheeseman/Golf%20in%20progress/manifold.jpg)
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What turbo are you running to have such a manifold?
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The data I've seen indicates that in order for the intake runners to be of any harmonic benefit to a tdi engine, they would have to be over 30 cm long. Plus, the use of a turbo basically negates any benefit of a tuned intake system. As far as the benefits of unequal runner lengths in the new VW intakes, I have not seen any hard data yet.
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That may be , but even a turbo benefits from 'doesn't suck'.
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FWIW, the PD100-130 intakes are WAAAY better than the stock 1Z/AHU manifold, at least it doesn't neck down to just over an inch (ID) and doesn't have the crap EGR valve that is unremovable
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The data I've seen indicates that in order for the intake runners to be of any harmonic benefit to a tdi engine, they would have to be over 30 cm long. Plus, the use of a turbo basically negates any benefit of a tuned intake system. As far as the benefits of unequal runner lengths in the new VW intakes, I have not seen any hard data yet.
30cm is only around 11.8 inches, which mine I am making will have a longer shot than that to the inake vavle. 11.8" runner is not the intake manifold runner length, that is total runner length from the back of the intake closed valve to the end of the runner. So were it bells out or ends at the plenum is the end and the important part. It is a 4th harmonic, but it should work. Basically if I can make my total length of the air column 13" peak torque will be achieved at 2,800rpm IF all the formulas are accurate that I have been using to come up with this. The other thing I have been reading is that it doesn't really matter if the air is blown or sucked, it still will bounce off the intake valve when closed, travel like a sound wave back to the plenum, and then back down to the intake valve...up and down until it is open again.
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The 1Y manifold is the sex IMO
As for turbo's... well in a mk1 its pretty easy:
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/gldgti/P1010514.jpg)
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/gldgti/P1010515.jpg)
and I would do the same with a trapezoidal flange manifold for hte bigger turbo's... I guess you might also manage with a VNT.
I don;t know how it would be possible on a mk2/3 though :-(
I have used the stock TD, PD160 and 1Y manifolds all on 1.9 TD engines, and I would say that the 1Y kicks butt over the others, but on my mk3, with everything else the same, the PD150 manifold gave me about an extra 5-8whp (dyno'd). That was on an engine making 125whp.
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I have used the stock TD, PD160 and 1Y manifolds all on 1.9 TD engines, and I would say that the 1Y kicks butt over the others, but on my mk3, with everything else the same, the PD150 manifold gave me about an extra 5-8whp (dyno'd). That was on an engine making 125whp.
So stock --> PD150/PD130 intake gave you +5-8whp in dyno? Have you dyno'd the 1Y intake also?
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no, no dyno on the 1y intake... its a different car aswell. I could compare the stock and pd160 because they were on the same car with the same turbo and everything, but the 1y is in a different car.
sorry :-(
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(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/bgbmxer/86E0940B-FFEE-41A5-B7DC-1330F2123ECB-1005-000000F53953CF4D.jpg)
(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj17/bgbmxer/F07DC58B-617C-41AD-BAEE-D50C9BDD5E84-1005-000000F543E88E9E.jpg)
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How much firewall-turbo clearance do you have with that setup? Not much I'd guess!
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How much firewall-turbo clearance do you have with that setup? Not much I'd guess!
i think after the adaptor was on, there was only a hair of clearance, but he solved that issue with a hammer, maybe he will chime in again.
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How much firewall-turbo clearance do you have with that setup? Not much I'd guess!
I'd had prolly an inch of clearance between the firewall and the turbo. The Wastegate hit the so I clearanced the firewall a little bit I had an adapter going from the manifold to the turbo because the bolt patter was different and it was about a half inch thick
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How much firewall-turbo clearance do you have with that setup? Not much I'd guess!
where are pics of your mk1? i love mk1's
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I'm kinda feeling dumb now, having ordered a PD 150 mani myself. Mine points towerd the driver side, though. But here's my question: Having a less restrictive intake and plenum, would this benefeit a ported head better than a stock 1.6-1.9 TD mani, especially under mid-20's boost numbers? I'll actually be using Smokey Eddy's old ported AAZ head, and from the loosk of the pics he sent me he has a lot of hours of smoothing and shaping put into the ports, so I think easier access to intake air would be better for it?
EDIT: Oh, and it came with a race pipe, so no EGR BS.
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I'm kinda feeling dumb now, having ordered a PD 150 mani myself. Mine points towerd the driver side, though. But here's my question: Having a less restrictive intake and plenum, would this benefeit a ported head better than a stock 1.6-1.9 TD mani, especially under mid-20's boost numbers? I'll actually be using Smokey Eddy's old ported AAZ head, and from the loosk of the pics he sent me he has a lot of hours of smoothing and shaping put into the ports, so I think easier access to intake air would be better for it?
EDIT: Oh, and it came with a race pipe, so no EGR BS.
i still think that a PROPER intake manifold would be leaps and bounds better than the PD pancake manifolds..
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Man I would like to think my PD intake was an improvement over the stock chicken neck 1Z intake :-\, what do you think I should do for a better intake manifold? ???
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Pretty sure that the new consensus is that almost no stock manifold is truly without noticeable flaws besides maybe the 1Y and SDI scroll manifolds, and even then I'm sure you could argue further. Custom manifolds for TDI's are too expensive unless you make it yourself. I still think the PD's are more open than stock, though, so I'll just live with my choice for now. It won't kill your engine and will be better than stock, but it just won't be 100% ideal.
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Oh this thread reminds me of my old plastic sdi intake manifold, it was really cool looking but simply won't work on cars with lda or probably anything but an electronic pump
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where are pics of your mk1? i love mk1's
Work in progress ;)
All the work so far has been done under the car, so it doesn't show on pictures, but car will be race ready June next year ;)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/DSC_0374.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/DSC_0373.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/DSC_0363.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/DSC_0367.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/DSC_0371.jpg)
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Oh this thread reminds me of my old plastic sdi intake manifold, it was really cool looking but simply won't work on cars with lda or probably anything but an electronic pump
You wouldn't still have this SDI manifold would you? Want to sell it? ;D
Alcaid, that mk1 Coupe is SWEET!
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No I sold it on eBay at a loss I had it on tdi club for like 2 years for what I paid for it and no takers. Really cool looking piece tho like an aba manifold for counter flow
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No I sold it on eBay at a loss I had it on tdi club for like 2 years for what I paid for it and no takers. Really cool looking piece tho like an aba manifold for counter flow
You mean you couldn't sell a part for what it was worth on TDI club? Never seen that before ;D
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How much firewall-turbo clearance do you have with that setup? Not much I'd guess!
i think after the adaptor was on, there was only a hair of clearance, but he solved that issue with a hammer, maybe he will chime in again.
And it was a port a power not a hammer haha.
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How much firewall-turbo clearance do you have with that setup? Not much I'd guess!
i think after the adaptor was on, there was only a hair of clearance, but he solved that issue with a hammer, maybe he will chime in again.
And it was a port a power not a hammer haha.
LMFAO!!!
thats pure AWESOME right there ^ ^ ^
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How much firewall-turbo clearance do you have with that setup? Not much I'd guess!
i think after the adaptor was on, there was only a hair of clearance, but he solved that issue with a hammer, maybe he will chime in again.
And it was a port a power not a hammer haha.
LMFAO!!!
thats pure AWESOME right there ^ ^ ^
If I did it again I might either use a standard t3 flange, mill to fit a standard t3 since I was using a Chrysler style flange, or just not use a Wastegate since I can control boost with just fuel anyways and I wouldn't have to clearance
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I plan on using the t3 of my charger next time or something of that size and trim and the same intake As in the picture and just weld the Wastegate shut this time.
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I plan on using the t3 of my charger next time or something of that size and trim and the same intake As in the picture and just weld the Wastegate shut this time.
a Chry T3? the bigger one? its much bigger than the stock VW t3..
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I plan on using the t3 of my charger next time or something of that size and trim and the same intake As in the picture and just weld the Wastegate shut this time.
a Chry T3? the bigger one? its much bigger than the stock VW t3..
That's the point haha. I ran the Mitsubishi and it spooled just fine. The Chrysler t3 is a bit bigger and can make more power. I didn't do much for pump mods last time and needed more fuel up top. Everyone's worried about spool time I'm worried about power.
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I plan on using the t3 of my charger next time or something of that size and trim and the same intake As in the picture and just weld the Wastegate shut this time.
a Chry T3? the bigger one? its much bigger than the stock VW t3..
That's the point haha. I ran the Mitsubishi and it spooled just fine. The Chrysler t3 is a bit bigger and can make more power. I didn't do much for pump mods last time and needed more fuel up top. Everyone's worried about spool time I'm worried about power.
i was one of the nay-sayers... im glad it worked out for you bud.. it just means i have more options next time i need a turbo, because i have one of each.. a TD04 and a Chry T3..
who cares about spool time? you get lag when you ask for power..
its all about learning your car, and being able to judge distance..
i just plan ahead, and think to myself, "i wanna be boosted up by the time i get to this landmark" witch is still hundreds of yards away..
eventually, you just learn to live with the turbo lag.. and it doesnt bother you anymore..
i drive a VNT20 powered Jetta.. turbo lag is DEFINITELY something i deal with every time i drive it..
right now my vanes arent operational, so it spools quite fast..
i really need to figure out how to keep the damn turbo from eating wastegate actuators tho..
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It made enough power everywhere that I never had to think about lag. In second gear I could mash on it and tires would fight for traction and third and fourth would just waste the clutch and the gearing was the longest 4 speed they made. The porting and intake and exhaust definitly made a difference. Even on hills where I would have to downshift Before the turbo it would keep accelerating.