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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: maxfax on February 19, 2011, 01:24:09 am
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AS though I need anymore toys, one never knows when they might need to bury a body.. So I bought a backhoe.. Case 580D with the 207cid NA diesel that uses a Stanadyne DB2 pump.. No glow plugs on this one, just an old ether injector which I don;t have hooked up at the moment.. According to the PO as long as he plugged in during cold weather, it would start..
The back story, PO was using it back in the summer and it died.. Pump wasn't working, and it had managed to spew a few gallons of diesel into the crankcase.. The pump was rebuilt by a reputable builder (I use them too).. Reinstalled with new filters, oil change, and it fired right up, but knocked..
Fast forward a month or 2 and my father and I bought it.. Crank turned, one new rod, new rings, yadda yadda.. Filled the fuel tank cracked the bleeders till the air was gone (Fuel is fed to the filters and pump via gravity), and it fired right up... It seemed to be laboring a bit at idle but otherwise it seemed to run okay.. Left it run about a half hour then shut it down to recheck fluids..
Had a bear of a time getting it started but it started.. Advanced the timing a bit, idle sounded better.. Went to move it around and it died.. Black smoke, but no start.. It was dark so I left it sit till morn and tried it again.. Wasn't pretty but it started.. Pulled it in the garage and noticed a fuel leak on the feed line to the filter.. Took care of that, fired right up, and I ran it around a bit.. Sounded good, ran well, no odd smoking from the exhaust.. Parked it in the garage, shut it off, let it set a few hours, went to move it out, no start, just white smoke.. Plugged in the heater, SOB is still the same..
I swear the thing acts like the timing is off, but after re checking it's still just slightly advanced past the mark.. Valves were set to cold spec, but I'm wondering if I should try the hot spec again.. OR else maybe a pump issue still... Any other thoughts??
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I think it is a pump issue because you said it ran good atleast one time right? The valve lash is probably in spec. dont worry bout that.
You think your injectors are fine? Do you have a hole in the fuel line system loosing vacuum?
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I tried it today and no go.. Popped the VC to be sure, and at least when cold the lash is okay.. From some reading I still feel as though I should check it when hot..
Pretty sure it's a pump issue at this point.. The fuel is gravity fed, so I cleaned and dried all the lines from the tank to the pump last night.. All still dry today.. I didn't have the injectors checked yet, but before the initial pump failure it ran fine.. Talked with my pump guy today and he;s thinking the same thing.. Even though I wasn't the one to have it rebuilt he's going to stand behind it.. I think I may take the injectors and have the tested just for the heck of it..
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ive never had luck setting the valves when cold.
then they warm up, and run like hell or start like hell..
or it could be pump related, but im going for valves..
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I prefer setting them hot myself.. But, I don't think it's valves at this point.. It has been a no start since I pulled it in the garage.. Still waiting for some word on the pump...
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Got the pump back.. It checked out okay.. Slapped it back on there and went though hell to get it started.. This time I left it running and took it out and used it a few hours.. It ran great..
I'm wondering if I need to go back to looking at the starter again.. Thing always started fine before the rebuild, but it also had a good many hours.. The engine does seem tighter/has better compression now..
Starter checks out fine on a test bench and on the machine as far as how much it draws.. It's also a gear reduction stater, and I've gotten goofy readings on those before.. When I was starting it this last time I broke out one of those dreaded spray cans and gave it shot.. Once it started firing on that it started puffing black smoke and finally ran.. IIRC the DB2 pumps have to be spinning about 300rpm to even work..
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my datsun would do about the same thing till i took the starter apart and blew the carbon out of the motor casing, and greased up the gear reduction part of it, then it fired right up every time..
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I sent the starter off to the rebuilders.. The darned thing still has yellow paint on it so I'm guessing it's been there since 1981.. HE threw it on his test bench and it checked out, but at the least new brushes and bushings probably won't hurt...
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I had a starter rebuilt recently that would just go "clunk" had a weak solenoid but checked out fine on the test bench
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Never had much faith in starter test benches myself.. Even the on vehicle testers seem to be rather flaky with gear reduction starters.. I'm hoping that replacing a 30 y/o starter will cure this things ills...
Years ago I went though starting issues on Isuzu powered tractor.. It would start, but never well.. After checking and testing crap a dozen times I slapped a new starter on.. Started better than when the darned tractor was new...
I swear I'm gonna trade all the power equipment toys in for a Farmall with a crank.. Maybe an Oliver 60
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Never had much faith in starter test benches myself.. Even the on vehicle testers seem to be rather flaky with gear reduction starters.. I'm hoping that replacing a 30 y/o starter will cure this things ills...
Years ago I went though starting issues on Isuzu powered tractor.. It would start, but never well.. After checking and testing crap a dozen times I slapped a new starter on.. Started better than when the darned tractor was new...
I swear I'm gonna trade all the power equipment toys in for a Farmall with a crank.. Maybe an Oliver 60
lmfao.. that would be grand. or get some old piece of machinery with a starter engine.. lol.
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lmfao.. that would be grand. or get some old piece of machinery with a starter engine.. lol.
A few years ago I almost bought a 1936 Cat D8 that was like that.. It was a glorious cantankeration of levers cranks and rods - Just to start the darned thing... I loved it! Much like this backhoe I didn't need it, but it was cheap and looked like fun to play with..
I'm sure I could have found uses for it too.. But the cost of moving it was nuts.. It was only about 12 miles away, but was going to take 40 miles to get it here (to many small bridges not rated to hold near 80,000lbs).. Plus I was going to need permits and escort vehicles.. :o
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lmfao.. that would be grand. or get some old piece of machinery with a starter engine.. lol.
A few years ago I almost bought a 1936 Cat D8 that was like that.. It was a glorious cantankeration of levers cranks and rods - Just to start the darned thing... I loved it! Much like this backhoe I didn't need it, but it was cheap and looked like fun to play with..
I'm sure I could have found uses for it too.. But the cost of moving it was nuts.. It was only about 12 miles away, but was going to take 40 miles to get it here (to many small bridges not rated to hold near 80,000lbs).. Plus I was going to need permits and escort vehicles.. :o
just for a D8? are you kidding me? i see D8s goin down the roads on trailers around here fairly common, but D9's need the oversized load signs, and escort vehicles..
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just for a D8? are you kidding me? i see D8s goin down the roads on trailers around here fairly common, but D9's need the oversized load signs, and escort vehicles..
PA sucks.. I think it was the width more than the weight.. This old machine had a 12 foot blade and tracks to match.... The early D8s were dimensionally quite a bit larger than it's modern counterpart..
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Got my starter back today.. Everything checked out okay internally.. Got it cleaned and greased, and it still cranks slow.. Talked with a buddy who works for Case IH.. Apparently my generic starter draw spec is flawed for these.. The general rule is that system voltage should not drop below a minimum 9 volts for 10 seconds of cranking.. This one doesn't drop below about 9.5v for 10+ seconds of cranking.. Case specifies a minimum of 11 volts.... Time to go starter shopping I think...
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New starter, cables, and a battery again (I stole the old new one for the Olds).. Cranks great, starts like crap.. Fought till it started and used it some more.. About 3 hours in it died.. Crank crank crank and it did finally start again, then died right away.. Wash Rinse Repeat, finally caved and towed it back to the garage.. Left it sit a few hours, after another fight it started and ran.. ??? I'm wondering if it could be a problem with the pump return.. Seems to flow, but is it?? My pump guy, and they guy at Case IH are baffled now too.. I may just drag someone the whole damned machine and let them kick it a while...
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Update.. Been a while but I had some new developments today.. Had a Case forklift brought in that needed the shuttle rebuilt, and it has the same engine as my backhoe.. 8) I uhh borrowed the IP from the forklift and slapped on my machine, BAM it fired up and ran beautifully.. Worked flawlessly for all of about 8 hours yesterday.. Gotta be my pump I just had rebuilt right?? So I slapped my pump on the forklift, it runs perfectly too... ??? So I swapped the pumps back to their original machines.. And, I'm back to square one...
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I think you may have a leak on the suction side of the pump that you cured when you switched pumps. I'd use it and see if the problem is fixed.
I just bought a JD 600D backhoe for a song that was supposed to be a runner with a bad starter. It had been sitting for 5 years I was told. No Go after curing the starter/slow crank issues, fresh fuel, block heat, etc. Now I find out that its been sitting for 7 or 8 years and the PO only had it running once and not well at that. It does have a fresh head and rebuilt IP so I am going to get it dragged home and jerk the head and pan and do a "rings in the driveway" job to it since I now believe that it had the head done after the HG blew, The bad part is that w/o the engine running no steering or brakes so it will be fun to load and unload.
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Tell me about moving the damned things... This one at least still has brakes, but no steering.. Forgot to prop the bucket and chain the masts the one time it quit.. And of course they leaked down overnight... >:(
Air leak is what I keep coming back to.. What kills me is that both machines ran fine when I swapped their pumps, and when I swapped the pumps back to their original respective engines mine stopped working again..
The fuel inlet is one of those compression like fittings with the rubber washer Like IH used.. I replaced that washer on mine, but reused it on the forklift.. I've noticed that the line on my machine is a pain to get started when connecting it to my pump, but on the other pump it started easily.. And likewise the line on the forklift started rather easily on my pump.. I got a pair of hose nipples and some rubber fuel line to eliminate the steel line and the special fittings.. IF the rain ever quits I'm gonna see what happens..